View Full Version : DU - "I Don't Support Ron Paul. HOWEVER....."
purplechoe
08-13-2011, 03:34 AM
interesting topic over at the Democratic Underground...
h xxp://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1724734
There are several issues wherein progressives do have some common ground with him. Notably, foreign policy, the MIC, civil liberties, the war on drugs, distrust of the banks and the Fed, and other issues.
Yes, we'll have our battles with his politics on civil rights, social programs, and the role of government in general, but at least he is a Republican that we can work with on some things.
In the end, I'd rather deal with a Republican party full of Ron Pauls and than a Republican party full of Rick Perrys.
Reading through that thread...
If it proves much anything, it is that there is a huge pro-establishment base even in the "grassroots" of the Democratic Party, just like there is in the GOP. Sad to see some of the responses of "honest liberals" on there who should be ashamed at how they treat the real liberals like Kucinich and others.
Warrior_of_Freedom
08-13-2011, 06:01 AM
The fact is, people don't care how many people die overseas by our guns as long as they get their welfare checks and section 8 housing.
Eleventh Star
08-13-2011, 06:26 AM
I've always wanted to ask the "Paul's not that bad" crowd: Paul is always front and center giving speeches to CPAC, Tea Party anti-tax rallies, AEI, etc. If Paul is so against the invasions, why is he never within a thousand miles of a march, rally or protest? If he is so anti-MIC, what has he done to ever de-fund it? What has this pennywise deficit hawk ever done to root out the Pentagon's financial black hole? If he hates the war on drugs, how much work has he put into de-criminalizing them? Why is the self-styled defender of personal freedoms so against women's reproductive rights??
I knew we thought Ron was something of a superhero, but this guy thinks he has near godlike powers he's not using. Not to mention, has any in the Democratic Party establishment aside from Kucinich (who isn't really establishment) done ANY of those things?
RM918
08-13-2011, 06:32 AM
Ron Paul in that debate the other night did more for the anti-war movement in a half-hour than any of those deluded souls have since Obama was put in office.
I knew we thought Ron was something of a superhero, but this guy thinks he has near godlike powers he's not using. Not to mention, has any in the Democratic Party establishment aside from Kucinich (who isn't really establishment) done ANY of those things?
Kucinich sold out when he voted for Obamacare. I lost respect for him then.
Ron Paul in that debate the other night did more for the anti-war movement in a half-hour than any of those deluded souls have since Obama was put in office.
Exactly. The Anti-War movement has been completely silent since Obama took office. They have lost all legitimacy. Even some of my supposed anti-war friends say things like, "well, Obama is running them because we have to. It's Bush's fault we're there at all." Yes, a good excuse...three years ago. Obama could have had all of the troops home by now if he wanted to. He doesn't want to.
This one post is a shining gem in a sea of shit.
The absolute rudeness of some of you is appalling.
You want to end war? You truly believe in peace? Then Ron Paul is the only answer. Period. Kuchinich has no chance of being president; Ron Paul does. Or what? Keep voting for Obama? He's shown he's a warmongering puppet, just like the rest of them. At least when Bush was president we marched in the streets. Now? We sit at home as we bomb new countries every other month.
And yes, he's a libertarian. And I dislike libertarianism intensely because I do not believe the free market solves all. But if you actually listen to the man, if you research his votes, he is a pillar of virtue. I do not need to agree with a man on everything -- hell, I don't even agree with myself all the time. But he gets some extremely important things right, and where I disagree with him, it's an understandable disagreement -- libertarianism is not very different than other, more left leaning variants of anarchistic thought, differing almost only on economic policy.
Most people realize the majority of federal government is corrupt. That banking is both corrupt and in shambles. That big pharm is a racket. Yet we want to put the pen in their hands to figure out a healthcare plan? C'mon. What have they ever done right? Why give them more money to piss away? We can't have our cake and eat it too -- if government is flawed, and wasteful, and corrupt... then we shouldn't be letting them drive. It is not governments job to fix every problem. And even if it was, it can't.
I completely believe every person in need should be treated. Absolutely. And you know what? Ron Paul has a long history of treating his patients in need for free. As a doctor, he refused to accept money from government programs he disagreed with, and treated them for free instead. Now that is integrity. Ron Paul doesn't think people should go untreated - his point is that bigger, bloated government is not the way to fix the problem. He doesn't want more money going to the insurance companies, the pharmaceuticals, the hmos - he wants to reconnect the patient and the doctor. And he actually is a doctor.
The man has more damn integrity than anyone else I've ever heard of, read of, listened to, or researched. And yes, I've researched him. The bile in this thread against him is sickening and gross. Especially from those who would rather us reelect a president that will lead us to more war, more bombings.
Some of Ron Pauls votes look odd at first glance. If he doesn't think government should be involved in something, he votes no. On principle. Even if it's for flowers and kittens and rubber duckies. Good for him. For example, he voted no on giving a medal to Rosa Parks. Detractors claim racism! Ridiculous. If you actually read his reasons, you will discover that he simply does not believe that the federal government should be, or even should be able to, spend our money (our taxes) on things like medals. Instead, he offered to pitch in his own money to buy her one. Nobody else offered to chip in. And if you can't sit down long enough to understand his reasoning, I feel sorry for you. I really do. Because he's everything we wish our politicians to be -- honest, with integrity. We always rant and rave because our politicians have no backbone; we hear about the 'be kind to kittens' law that everyone has to vote yes on even though it backdoors some terrible law in the fine print. Ron Pauls votes no on those. And then irresponsible and/or ignorant people claim he hates kittens.
So what if I disagree with him on some things? Because you know what?
He will bring the troops home.
He will end the war on drugs, which has absolutely destroyed this country, creating a nation of prisoners.
He will repeal the massive amounts of executive orders from Bush, etc. that have given the executive branch far too much power.
He will audit, if not end, the Fed.
He believes anyone should be able to be with anyone. He actually believes government should have absolutely no say in marriage, whatsoever, that it's a private matter.
He knows the bankers are the evil scumbags they are and isn't afraid to call them out.
And on and on.
As for Medicare, and all that other stuff, yes, he wants to work towards phasing some of that out. But if you actually listen to and read some of his positions, you'll learn that he has no desire, whatsoever, to simply turn it off. He knows people need it. He's the furthest thing from a heartless conservative you'll ever meet.
And it's almost silly to be debating such issues anyway. We are over 14, now over 16 trillion dollars in debt, and will be another 10 in the hole within a decade at the latest. We are broke. Our dollar is crushed. And our answer is to figure out ways to spend more.
I am saddened, so saddened, by the bile in this thread. By all of you who know not the man you speak of, but spit hate and lies and misinformation at a man who is one of the few presidential candidates we've had in our lifetimes that speaks truth (and I say 'few' and not 'only' because i have a certain respect for Kuchinich and Gravel).
If you care at all about ending our wars. If you care at all about us avoiding financial collapse. If you care at all about releasing all of the non-violent drug offenders. If you care, period. Then consider Ron Paul.
Or keep spreading your lies, and vote for your warmonger. We still torture. We still bomb. Remember that. The blood is on our hands, and we have a chance to do something about it. Our first real chance.
Dianne
08-13-2011, 08:06 AM
I've voted democratic all my life; until Ron Paul, that is. I have nothing in common with the GOP, other than Ron Paul. I don't agree with Paul on everything, but I do disagree with Obama on everything.
JamesButabi
08-13-2011, 08:23 AM
Wow that quoted post is powerful
KramerDSP
08-13-2011, 09:20 AM
Posted on FB. I would post it everywhere if I were you guys!
thehighwaymanq
08-13-2011, 09:25 AM
I think we saw on Thursday that Ron Paul is going to try to bring back the anti-war movement
purplechoe
08-13-2011, 01:25 PM
This one post is a shining gem in a sea of shit.
Wow, that's wonderful response. I just skimmed through some of the responses last night which for the most part were very negative towards Ron Paul but that one hits the nail right on target. We shouldn't be too surprised though, most of those people are only interested in electing someone with a D next to their name, principals be damned!
Wow that quoted post is powerful
That's my post. Reading that thread/site for 5 minutes made me furious. I come from an anarchistic background - far, far left, not right (so far left that I agree with RP on pretty much everything of importance, barring a couple minor points). Long term, I'm more anti-gov than he is, but in the short term (as in, for the next couple of decades), he's perfect. And I figured a voice from that position might just help to wake a couple people up. One can hope.
Thanks for the kind words; they mean a lot.
AbVag
08-13-2011, 02:05 PM
This one post is a shining gem in a sea of shit.
"Kuchinich has no chance of being president; Ron Paul does."
Do we really want to use the same tactic our enemies ticked us off with? Given what we've been through mostly in 2007, that line greatly disturbs me.
Created4
08-13-2011, 02:22 PM
That's my post. Reading that thread/site for 5 minutes made me furious. I come from an anarchistic background - far, far left, not right (so far left that I agree with RP on pretty much everything of importance, barring a couple minor points). Long term, I'm more anti-gov than he is, but in the short term (as in, for the next couple of decades), he's perfect. And I figured a voice from that position might just help to wake a couple people up. One can hope.
Thanks for the kind words; they mean a lot.
Great job affa! Change comes one person and one mind at a time, and I am sure some who read that will be intrigued enough to search for more information.
Brooklyn Red Leg
08-13-2011, 02:44 PM
This one post is a shining gem in a sea of shit.
Yep. Good for you for saving it. I'm sure the asshole mods will delete it and ban erisa. They've done it to me twice for the simple crime of trying to reach out to people at DU that would listen.
cajuncocoa
08-13-2011, 02:59 PM
That's my post. Reading that thread/site for 5 minutes made me furious. I come from an anarchistic background - far, far left, not right (so far left that I agree with RP on pretty much everything of importance, barring a couple minor points). Long term, I'm more anti-gov than he is, but in the short term (as in, for the next couple of decades), he's perfect. And I figured a voice from that position might just help to wake a couple people up. One can hope.
Thanks for the kind words; they mean a lot.
Was your post deleted already? I can't seem to find it in that thread.
ProIndividual
08-13-2011, 03:03 PM
Do we really want to use the same tactic our enemies ticked us off with? Given what we've been through mostly in 2007, that line greatly disturbs me.
I think this refers to the fact Dennis isn't running. Hard to be possibly President when you refuse to run.
TexanRudeBoy
08-13-2011, 03:55 PM
This one post is a shining gem in a sea of shit.
Dude IS going to get banned for that. I tried posting at DU a couple years ago. It doesn't matter what you say or how you say it, they ban people simply for posting things anti-Democratic party. It says so right in their terms.
Edit: Its already been deleted.
josh b
08-13-2011, 04:10 PM
Ron Paul in that debate the other night did more for the anti-war movement in a half-hour than any of those deluded souls have since Obama was put in office.
This. Libertarians are better war protestors than most of the lefty anti war movement.
Unelected
08-13-2011, 05:36 PM
"...and I almost forgot to mention...back in 2008, I carried a pair of diagonal cutters in the trunk of my car, in order to take down a number of the Ron Paul banners that were put up illegally all over the place by his misguided fanatics. For the ones I couldn't get to, I called the authorities and they quickly removed them as well."
DU is mostly just socialist pieces of shit on welfare who hate Ron Paul. These are the people calling Ron Paul a racist.
"Kuchinich has no chance of being president; Ron Paul does."
Do we really want to use the same tactic our enemies ticked us off with? Given what we've been through mostly in 2007, that line greatly disturbs me.
Um... they're running the sitting president. Obama is up for election. Kuchinich truly has no chance of being elected in the upcoming election.
Was your post deleted already? I can't seem to find it in that thread.
Wow. Yep. Deleted. So sad. Thanks to whoever quoted it here; I know it isn't valuable here, where we already support the man... but at least my words still exist.
Sentient Void
08-13-2011, 05:56 PM
Wow. Yep. Deleted. So sad.
Pathetic. Truly pathetic. Free speech and all - discussion of ideas... but can't let people discuss honestly!
All of this shit like this, and what happened on the left-anarchism 'cause' page on facebook in the banning of ancaps is consistent evidence that any socialist state willd evolve into a stalinist force for evil - crush both economic and civil liberties.
Hypocrites, the lot of them.
purplechoe
08-13-2011, 06:04 PM
Wow. Yep. Deleted. So sad. Thanks to whoever quoted it here; I know it isn't valuable here, where we already support the man... but at least my words still exist.
I value them, I thought your post was very inspirational, glad to have you here...
Brooklyn Red Leg
08-13-2011, 06:30 PM
All of this shit like this, and what happened on the left-anarchism 'cause' page on facebook in the banning of ancaps
Wait. WHAT?
outspoken
08-13-2011, 07:04 PM
That was an amazing post. That said, most of the liberals I know personally are spineless weasels who have zero respect for property rights and right to individual liberty. Many have been cottled their who lives and have had to work for little and wouldn't think of fighting for anything. The ones I know don't hate government forced killing through war on principle but only on the fact that they'd rather use the money racket for programs they believe in... and often receive benefits from. I now have a new found appreciation and respect for someone who comes from the left who actually uses the intellectual aspect of their brain rather than just the emotional part. Kudos to you and keep spreading your words!! You may want to read Dr. Mary Ruwart's book Healing the World as you will have even more ammo in your belt. Keep up the great work.
outspoken
08-13-2011, 07:06 PM
if you don't mind, I'd like to cut and past it in the online political responses on some of the websites I check out. All that brain power shouldn't go to waste.
Sentient Void
08-13-2011, 07:24 PM
Wait. WHAT?
Yessir. On the 'Anarchism', 'cause' facebook group page... where there's 18,370 members... there was a *massive* purge of anarchocapitalists from the page due to their debating with the left-anarchists. The 'anarchist' admins didn't like it, so they banned virtually all of them (which was a pretty good amount). Including myself.
I believe the ban was eventually lifted, but the point remains. When the debate gets down to the issues, they don't like it, don't like dissenting opinion, logic, and facts - and they'll just ban your ass instead.
'Anarchism', indeed.
lester1/2jr
08-13-2011, 07:40 PM
DU is strange site. I visit it often because I like the layout of it, there are so many topics right there at the same time. The group think is weird though. On the one hand, yeah it is for democrats so if you don't share their general platform it doesn't make sense to be there. On the other hand the way they police themselves is bizarre to people used to open debates which is the way things are at most boards.
I had no idea they would delete that post, but I can't say I'm surprised after what they did to texasleftist. and he was a long time member there. Anyone remember that thread? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9484081
moonshineplease
08-13-2011, 08:39 PM
"...and I almost forgot to mention...back in 2008, I carried a pair of diagonal cutters in the trunk of my car, in order to take down a number of the Ron Paul banners that were put up illegally all over the place by his misguided fanatics. For the ones I couldn't get to, I called the authorities and they quickly removed them as well."
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D
LMAO at this douche bag I would love to meet the person that wrote this?? Like we needed permission from The Man to challenge The Man. haha.
if you don't mind, I'd like to cut and past it in the online political responses on some of the websites I check out. All that brain power shouldn't go to waste.
feel free (always).
TulsaRevolution
08-14-2011, 01:32 AM
Someone with an account over there needs to ask them WHY are they a spirited Democrat? For what goal? For the goal of helping people? For the goal of empowering the powerless?
We must focus on our similarities rather than our differences. From that, we can figure out that we are all really on the same path. We all want to protect individual liberties, we just have different ways of understanding the best path to opening up the most freedom to the most people. Well meaning Democrats (not corporate whore Democrats, or well meaning but brainwashed by corporate interests) generally want to break up the monolithic corporate and multiple-exponent-of-10-wealth interests which seem to have unfair control over the common worker. Libertarian Conservatives have the same view, they just approach it from a different angle.
The problem is, both sides are corrupted by the consolidated wealth and influence which is already in place, and would do anything long of broadcasting lies, cheating known rules of law and order, and actually killing those who are opposed. I say "long" of, and not "short" of, because these things have actually occurred. You need only look to those assassinated during one decade to get an idea - JFK, MLK, RFK, all during the 60s, and what followed afterwards? Since when did the Constitution mean anything after the 60s? Is rule of law somehow obsolete because we have Google? Or do binding limitations on government power over individuals actually MEAN SOMETHING in this day and age?
LadyBastiat
08-14-2011, 01:46 AM
Ron Paul in that debate the other night did more for the anti-war movement in a half-hour than any of those deluded souls have since Obama was put in office.
+rep, love it and totally agree!
angelatc
08-14-2011, 01:47 AM
"Kuchinich has no chance of being president; Ron Paul does."
Do we really want to use the same tactic our enemies ticked us off with? Given what we've been through mostly in 2007, that line greatly disturbs me.
Kucinich isn't running against an incumbent.
TexanRudeBoy
08-14-2011, 01:49 AM
Someone with an account over there needs to ask them WHY are they a spirited Democrat? For what goal? For the goal of helping people? For the goal of empowering the powerless?
We must focus on our similarities rather than our differences. From that, we can figure out that we are all really on the same path. We all want to protect individual liberties, we just have different ways of understanding the best path to opening up the most freedom to the most people. Well meaning Democrats (not corporate whore Democrats, or well meaning but brainwashed by corporate interests) generally want to break up the monolithic corporate and multiple-exponent-of-10-wealth interests which seem to have unfair control over the common worker. Libertarian Conservatives have the same view, they just approach it from a different angle.
The problem is, both sides are corrupted by the consolidated wealth and influence which is already in place, and would do anything long of broadcasting lies, cheating known rules of law and order, and actually killing those who are opposed. I say "long" of, and not "short" of, because these things have actually occurred. You need only look to those assassinated during one decade to get an idea - JFK, MLK, RFK, all during the 60s, and what followed afterwards? Since when did the Constitution mean anything after the 60s? Is rule of law somehow obsolete because we have Google? Or do binding limitations on government power over individuals actually MEAN SOMETHING in this day and age?
Been tried. It just gets you banned. It says in their terms that you are expected to support the Democratic party. Period.
blocks
08-14-2011, 01:53 AM
I can't believe they deleted that. What a bunch of cowards.
KingRobbStark
08-14-2011, 01:57 AM
I can't believe they deleted that. What a bunch of cowards.
So it got deleted? What douches. I was looking for that response, and couldn't find it. O well. When faced with reason, run like hell.
squarepusher
08-14-2011, 02:22 AM
that's my post. Reading that thread/site for 5 minutes made me furious. I come from an anarchistic background - far, far left, not right (so far left that i agree with rp on pretty much everything of importance, barring a couple minor points). Long term, i'm more anti-gov than he is, but in the short term (as in, for the next couple of decades), he's perfect. And i figured a voice from that position might just help to wake a couple people up. One can hope.
Thanks for the kind words; they mean a lot.
+++++rep
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