Don't blame the parks dept for Philly Rally

[Sematary]

I received a really concerned call from the events coordinator at Independence Mall because he's been swamped with calls from people about the rally and alot of them are blaming the government. The government is NOT RESPONSIBLE for this. The cost for the permit was only $50 - talk about cheap. The COST is in setting up for a world class event - something the campaign balked at. Apparently someone didn't recognize the return on investment in this event being held at Independence Mall.

[iskimtsnow]

Short sighted bean counter in my opinion. I was expecting this to be a turning point in the campaign. A rally point for people to look back on. Riding high of the Nov 5th donation success.

[bulloncoins]

One, two , three deep breath......LET IT GO!

Its a done deal.....and your sour grapes make for bad "Whine".....

[Sematary]

One, two , three deep breath......LET IT GO!

Its a done deal.....and your sour grapes make for bad "Whine".....

I want people to leave the parks dept. alone. They had nothing to do with this.

[constituent]

it amazes me still how reactionary people are in their interactions w/ one another.

so very high-minded in their dealings w/ meet-ups and things of the like, but when
it comes to set an example for that voter who isn't yet on our team....


well, it speaks for itself... again, again, and again, and again, and again.

get with it.

[stevedasbach]

Could someone with knowledge of the history of this event help me out? As I recall, this event was originally set up by the folks in Philly. They picked the venue, the date, etc. They arranged for Dr. Paul to attend after winning the Meetup group contest.

If my recollection is correct, how is it the campaign's fault for not being willing to spend $50,000 plus to put on this event? They didn't pick the venue.

[Andrew76]

Well I mean, didn't the campaign folks already clear this up? Something like 140,000.oo for Independence Mall, whereas all the other rallies have cost them between 5 and 9000.oo bucks, regardless of the city. Looking at that price tag, I would've done the exact same thing.
The total 140,000.oo dollar tab was the combo from the city, unions who'd be working this event, and audio/visual, and I imagine they'd have to pay for security too? Sure the permit would only cost 50 bucks, so yeah, don't call the guy at the Parks office. But $140,000.oo is huge number to swallow, especially when all other rallies have cost so comparitively little. I'd feel like I was getting the shaft.

One positive outcome is that if this Valley Forge center has a capacity of 2200, then we'll have "sold it out." The spillover outside will be insane. It can still be a massive event. And yeah, what's done is done. Lets move on ahead with this one. Hell, I'm still going!

[Sematary]

Could someone with knowledge of the history of this event help me out? As I recall, this event was originally set up by the folks in Philly. They picked the venue, the date, etc. They arranged for Dr. Paul to attend after winning the Meetup group contest.

If my recollection is correct, how is it the campaign's fault for not being willing to spend $50,000 plus to put on this event? They didn't pick the venue.

Because the campaign coopted the rally rather than allow the grassroots to handle it.

[stevedasbach]

Because the campaign coopted the rally rather than allow the grassroots to handle it.

Are you saying that the grassroots was willing/able to cover the $50,000 plus cost of the venue?

[maxmerkel]

i still ldon't understand how this could cost 150K ? if the rent for the park is 50 bucks, they could have used the same security/audio/video/blah staff they would use at the convenction center ???

[kylejack]

Regardless, stop bothering the parks people. They didn't do anything wrong.

[maxmerkel]

what is the thread for this whole philly thing ?
can anyone sum it up or point me to the thread ?
i really don't understand how the campaign could calculate a total cost of 150K !?! this sounds really silly...

(and the parks people certainly have done nothing wrong - 50$ for the whole day ? sounds great to me ...)

[orenbus]

did grassroots present the campaign with the 150k figure and they chose not to spend the money?

[fletcher]

i still ldon't understand how this could cost 150K ? if the rent for the park is 50 bucks, they could have used the same security/audio/video/blah staff they would use at the convenction center ???

No, they would have had to use union members.

[maxmerkel]

No, they would have had to use union members.

isn't everybody allowed to hire whomever he wants to hire ????

and even union workers don't charge 15 times of what non union workers charge !!

[brandon]

did grassroots present the campaign with the 150k figure and they chose not to spend the money?

No grassroots was not involved.

Grasroots came up with a price tag under 10k

[Mr. White]

isn't everybody allowed to hire whomever he wants to hire ????

and even union workers don't charge 15 times of what non union workers charge !!

I nominate that naive post of the day.

No fault of yours, no shame either. 5 years ago I'd have asked the exact same thing.

[maxmerkel]

I nominate that naive post of the day.

No fault of yours, no shame either. 5 years ago I'd have asked the exact same thing.

hehe. i did not know how bad things have gotten in the US...
in germany/EU even asking this question might get me in prison ;)

[LibertyEagle]

did grassroots present the campaign with the 150k figure and they chose not to spend the money?

The number keeps etching upwards. The upper end they quoted was $140K. :)

[Bradley in DC]

Are you saying that the grassroots was willing/able to cover the $50,000 plus cost of the venue?

Steve, the confusion is understandable. No matter what, HQ dropped the ball. They refuse to give any straight answers: it's "several reasons" and "highly complex," but if the cost were the answer that should have been arranged well before now (before people made flight and hotel arrangements, spent money on thousands of fliers, media announcements, etc). I personally would find it incredible that the costs could have skyrocketed all of the sudden at such short notice.

[Danny Molina]

We could have raised 140k easily in like 2 days (if that). I don't see the problem.

Plus, the campaign have to find some way to use the money they raised.

[Ozwest]

Steve, the confusion is understandable. No matter what, HQ dropped the ball. They refuse to give any straight answers: it's "several reasons" and "highly complex," but if the cost were the answer that should have been arranged well before now (before people made flight and hotel arrangements, spent money on thousands of fliers, media announcements, etc). I personally would find it incredible that the costs could have skyrocketed all of the sudden at such short notice.

What can be done? Lack of communication seems to be the problem. Where is the liaison?... What are your thoughts?

[MusoSpuso]

Because the campaign coopted the rally rather than allow the grassroots to handle it.

Did the grassroots come up with the 140,00.00 or was this expected to be shelled out by the campaign?

[me3]

$140,000 is an unsubstantiated figure. The campaign mentioned $80 to 140k, which is a pretty good gap, of course they have been slow or averse to provide details.

Where HQ apparently dropped the ball is in having the figures ready early enough to make a firm decision on the venue. Instead, they apparently went along with Independence Mall, prompting the Mighty Mighty Philly Grassroots to conduct a very substantial marketing campaign (at their own cost).

The issue is with HQ, and I wish these threads would stop because each of them reminds me that the campaign proper has behaved like a bureaucracy and that is not acceptable given the transparency and responsibility that Dr. Paul promotes.

[tmg19103]

My take - the cost was far less - probably a third of $140,000.00. The campaign gave a range with $140,000.00 at the high end. It's called CYA.

I think it was the combination of money and the fact that the campaign staff is so small that this event snuck up on them and they did not realize how much was involved with a large outdoor rally in a big Democratic city with big unions so they went with their cookie cutter hotel model that they are used to. The price and complexity did it in.

That being said, forget about it, don't call the Park Service and BE AT VALLEY FORGE ON THE 10TH.

If George Washington and the Continental Army could spend one of the coldest winters in Philly there in make shift huts, we can get there.

If these Patriots could put up with the below, we can get there and bring their ghosts alive with a great rally for the same Liberty and Freedom they fought for - and which we have lost, yet can regain by giving Ron Paul and this rally our all.

"On June 19, 1778, six months after its arrival, the army marched away from Valley Forge in pursuit of the British who were moving toward New York. An ordeal had ended. The war would last for another five years, but for Washington, his men, and the nation to which they sought to give birth, a decisive victory had been won -- a victory not of weapons but of will".

Sounds pretty appropriate to me. We need a victory of our own WILL. We can do that by just BEING THERE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Forge

[Brutus]

Blow the doors off of this rally (figuratively) and get the campaign donations in the stratosphere and the campaign will have the confidence to start taking larger risks. I'm sure that flaming out in mid-December is a real concern to them.

I'm sorry it didn't work out the way the Philly people would have liked. It sounds like they had a bunch of really cool plans.

[Eric21ND]

When we lose I'll bump this thread for the campaign.

[Nefertiti]

I second the plea to stop bugging the Park Service. When Semetary first went in there to talk to them about the rally all the employees were VERY EXCITED because they hadn't had something this large there in decades.

[Matt Collins]

i still ldon't understand how this could cost 150K ? if the rent for the park is 50 bucks, they could have used the same security/audio/video/blah staff they would use at the convention center ???As an audio engineer put on professional events for a living.

Production could very easily run $50k+ for something like this including staging, audio, lighting, video, generators, etc. That doesn't include insurance, security, and whatever the local labor costs. I don't quite see it totaling $140k, but it could come close to $100k.

There are only 3 venues I could justify holding a rally that costs that much:
- Independence Hall
- Washington Mall
- Central Park NYC

A rally of that nature probably wouldn't draw more than 10k people, but it could pull in millions of dollars worth of press coverage if done properly.

Erring on the side of frugality I can understand the decision but I also think an estimate of $140k was a bit much.