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View Full Version : Email from super-smart and good friend lost in Hannityland




nayjevin
06-12-2007, 10:19 PM
I received this email from a good friend of mine who has decidedly different beliefs than I do, mostly because he gets all of his news from Fox and won't ever take the time to read a whole article on anything from anywhere else because it just seems like crap to him - cause it goes against everything he hears on MSM.

Keep in mind this is a really good friend of mine, even though some of these statements make me want to pull my hair out:


I fully endorse RPs old school conservative beliefs. Although I am more of a libertarian/neo-con, any stance that is more than 50% of what I believe in and isn't so half-assed as to render itself impotent, is alright with me. I believe in globalism in contrast to RPs isolationist beliefs. Thats pretty much it. However, I can't stand the Republicans or Democrats globalist beliefs because they don't ever make legislative choices, the make compromises that please no one and accomplishes nothing. If we need to pull out of Iraq, then fine, lets do it. If we want to stay and win this war, then the streets need to run with the blood of terrorist sons-of-bitches. This limp-wristed approach to the war only drags out the inevitable, whatever it may be.

In reference to your comments, I was mocking the PTB by speaking of "primitive times". I think that the PTB believe that we have progressed past the belief system of our founding fathers due to their inability to foresee the future. Much like the argument that the FFs might not have ruled in favor of the second amendment if they would have known that we would posses hand guns and automatic weapons in this day and age.

Still, I think that we should stick to the maxim "the most likely answer is the simplest one". We should realize that we have bogged ourselves down in too many rules and legislation, and we need to return to the simple beliefs of our FFs. I think that RP is on to something. Between RP, Neal Boortz, and Ross Perot, I think the libertarian party has a chance to really catch the publics eye and hopefully some votes.

So here is the email i am sending back -- does anybody have any thoughts on whether my points are well constructed/effective or whether i should pitch it all and say 'right on brother'??



"Between RP, Neal Boortz, and Ross Perot, I think the libertarian party has a chance to really catch the publics eye and hopefully some votes."

you know ron paul's running republican, right? and that the only official poll so far (the utah straw poll) put him in second place to romney -- ahead of mccain and giuliani? parties don't mean shit anymore anyway.

"I think that the PTB believe that we have progressed past the belief system of our founding fathers due to their inability to foresee the future. Much like the argument that the FFs might not have ruled in favor of the second amendment if they would have known that we would posses hand guns and automatic weapons in this day and age. "

I am a bit more cynical, but we're on the same page. I don't think the PTB actually believe we've progressed past the constitution -- more likely they have read it and understood it, along with Mein Kampf and sun tzu's Art of War, and know exactly how powerful it is to preserve liberty -- if it were followed. I think they know that the liberty of the people gets in the way of ownership of the resources, and a truly free and educated people would stop their global game of Risk that gets them off. I think the idea that FF ideas are outdated is only spouted as propoganda to apologize for legislation that tramples the constitution.

by PTB i don't mean the talking heads in congress and senate -- there may be some of these who actually don't think the constitution would work (although i suspect it's more like they don't care) -- i mean the world bank and council on foreign relations, and project for a new century etc. types. always aiming to take power from the people, and put it into the hands of themselves or those they control. always positioning to control resources (iran, iraq, darfur, afghanistan, on and on) and power (u.n., NATO, etc).

"Although I am more of a libertarian/neo-con"

well, first, there's no such thing. they are polar opposites.

wiki:

Prominent neoconservatives are associated with periodicals such as Commentary and The Weekly Standard, and with foreign policy initiatives of think tanks such as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA).

this just about describes the PTB as i see it, who believe in globalism, imperialism. libertarians are live let live.

"I believe in globalism in contrast to RPs isolationist beliefs."

ron paul is not an isolationist. isolationists believe that trade with other countries should be closed. he is a non-interventionist, which means he doesn't believe we should be involved in the politics of other countries. no regime change for instance. RP is dubbed an isolationist only by those who wish to deface him -- it is easy to argue against isolationism, but there are no logical arguments agains non-interventionism.

globalists and neocons are interested in spreading 'democracy' to the world, however, democracy is not even working here -- 70% of america believes we should not be in the war, but we are. true democracy is for the people, by the people. america is not democracy. i don't believe in democracy anyway, BTW, because at least 51% of people in high school thought john doe (editor's note: a guy that was a douche jock in HS) was a cool guy, how fucked up is that?

"I can't stand the Republicans or Democrats globalist beliefs because they don't ever make legislative choices, they make compromises that please no one and accomplishes nothing. If we need to pull out of Iraq, then fine, lets do it. If we want to stay and win this war, then the streets need to run with the blood of terrorist sons-of-bitches. This limp-wristed approach to the war only drags out the inevitable, whatever it may be."

legislation regarding what to do in other countries enacted in the last 15 years or so has aimed to do one thing and one thing only -- increase occupation, and increase control. it's not about solving problems around the world. you don't solve problems with bombs and guns -- the guys at the top aren't stupid enough to believe that you can. they don't want to solve problems -- they want to occupy and control -- and convince america it is for moral reasons.

the biggest eye opener i ever have had to what is really going on came from reading ron paul's speeches to congress.

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/

it's the strongest shit ever, and ron paul doesn't bullshit about it -- he lays it right out in front of these guys -- but it's often to an empty crowd.

"Still, I think that we should stick to the maxim "the most likely answer is the simplest one". We should realize that we have bogged ourselves down in too many rules and legislation, and we need to return to the simple beliefs of our FFs. I think that RP is on to something."

woot woot!!

jay

X_805
06-12-2007, 10:33 PM
If we need to pull out of Iraq, then fine, lets do it. If we want to stay and win this war, then the streets need to run with the blood of terrorist sons-of-bitches. This limp-wristed approach to the war only drags out the inevitable, whatever it may be.

Hmm... I think Ron Paul said something in one of the debates quite like what your friend says here. Something about going to war by declaring it, fighting it, and winning it instead of fighting undeclared wars that we never win. You might point that out to your friend. Otherwise, I think what you say is pretty good.

I think most neo-conservatives and paleo-conservatives can agree on one thing at least. Half-a**ed gets you no where.

Texan4Life
06-12-2007, 10:56 PM
I Think your reply was was spot on... I would like to add my $.02 about the the 2a.


Much like the argument that the FFs might not have ruled in favor of the second amendment if they would have known that we would posses hand guns and automatic weapons in this day and age.

First of all, they had hand guns and long guns, Second they were the top technology of the day.

I think they knew exactly what they were talking about. How did they gain freedom from the english? First they tried talking and when that didn't work they used force. And I believe that they really learned a lesson there and thats why it's second on the list.

I have also come to the personal belief that the 2a (like the 1a) should apply to all linear descendants. For example, with hand guns and long guns you can trace there technological advancement through history to the modern firearms we have today.

I mean if one believes it should only cover the technology of the day then you could argue that the FF didn't mean free speech/press with type writers, TV, radio, or the internet.

But as I have had someone before say, " well if they meant semi/full auto then they must of meant you can own a nuke then huh?" Well I argued that because you cant trace it back through history, so therefore I believe it is not covered by the 2a.

angelatc
06-12-2007, 11:04 PM
I personally believe that the FF wanted us to have the same weapons that the soldiers have.

Non-personally, the FF knew they weren't smart enough to predict the future. That's why they gave future generations the ability to change the document.

We have lots of laws on our books that get revised as time makes it a necessity. It's just sad that we're too busy to bother with the all-important underlying document.

Texan4Life
06-12-2007, 11:23 PM
I personally believe that the FF wanted us to have the same weapons that the soldiers have.

wow thats a much more simple way to put it than my long post! I like it! And I only covered pistols and rifles.. Artillery goes back to the cannon (could a citizen own a cannon back then?).

Not sure about tanks and APCs. Though you can buy armored vehicles even now-a-days. You can get a British Main Battle tank for $45,000. But the guns have been decommissioned.

http://www.armyjeeps.net/armor1.htm


1967 British Chieftain Main Battle Tank
"Running and ready to go."

http://www.armyjeeps.net/chieftian/ChieftainTank-10.jpg

mars
06-12-2007, 11:24 PM
This limp-wristed approach to the war only drags out the inevitable, whatever it may be.

You might also want to encourage your friend to read 1984 to get a more grim understanding of why perpetual warfare is required!

nayjevin
06-13-2007, 12:20 AM
i agree, the FF knew they couldn't predict the future, but i think they would fight to always preserve the right of the citizenry to protect themselves from PRESENT TECHNOLOGY if used against them by their government. that, to me, is the spirit of the document.

the existence of new and more sophisticated methods for hurting each other has not increased our propensity to do so. (russia had 30,000 nukes during the cold war, we came out OK; high gun ownership does not equate to high murder rates). Therefore, a document designed to protect individuals liberty from being infringed by others is timeless.

I have no problem with my neighbor owning a nuke. he better not use it.

his right to punch ends at the tip of my nose.

angrydragon
06-13-2007, 12:36 AM
If he's super-smart, he'd know not to listen to msm.

torchbearer
06-13-2007, 12:38 AM
Its possible to be blinded by propoganda that plays to your patriotic heart strings... he is a loyal american... we just need to give him the red pill and wake him up.

Heurismus
06-15-2007, 03:52 PM
You might also want to encourage your friend to read 1984 to get a more grim understanding of why perpetual warfare is required!

You are of course being ironic here aren't you? Don't forget that liberty depends on life; ergo - we must sustain life in order to be free. Unwarranted war is the fool's market, but then I guess they have the right to go and kill themselves as long as it doesn't involve everybody else. Any good killing fields you know where they can get on with it without dragging us all down? Even Eric Blair I think would like your comment; I do!

angrydragon
06-15-2007, 04:15 PM
So what's the update with your friend?

nayjevin
06-24-2007, 06:58 AM
So what's the update with your friend?

took a while, but.....

HE'S GOING TO A RON PAUL MEETUP WITH ME!

nyuk nyuk.

He says what stuck in his mind is that I mentioned that he's more like a wise grandpa than a politician, and he says he noticed that if you watch the other candidates, then watch RP, he's the only one who answers the questions asked of him.

IOW, honesty is more important than policy, I couldn't agree more. Even if we disagree, we'll know anything Paul does is with good intentions, and we'll know the REAL reasons behind his decisions.

He is rapidly learning the real issues, without spin, through RP channels. Activism is a wonderful thing.

P.S. He was much farther along than I realized -- he had dropped Hannity months ago in favor of Neal Boortz.

Bob Cochran
06-24-2007, 07:23 AM
I wish more people understood the difference between "non-interventionist" and "isolationist".

There really is a big difference, but unfortunately when people hear someone say, "We shouldn't be going into countries and interfering in their affairs", they think this is an isolationist kind of statement, but it is a fair cry from taking an isolationist position.

Ron Paul says we should trade with countries instead of bombing them.

Not bombing them is part of being non-interventionist.

Wanting to trade with them is a non-isolationist position.

So, if I'm not mistaken, Ron Paul is both non-interventionist and non-isolationist.

angelatc
06-24-2007, 07:32 AM
There are lots of people who fully believe that we need to maintain our position of the world's enforcer. The Democrats are just as likely to intervene in other lands as the Republicans are.

Mitt Romneys sideburns
06-24-2007, 07:37 AM
1967 British Chieftain Main Battle Tank
"Running and ready to go."


Russian 45mm Anti-tank Gun M1938

Bring it on!

http://www.armyjeeps.net/45MM/100_0985.JPG

Original_Intent
06-24-2007, 08:26 AM
You are of course being ironic here aren't you? Don't forget that liberty depends on life; ergo - we must sustain life in order to be free. Unwarranted war is the fool's market, but then I guess they have the right to go and kill themselves as long as it doesn't involve everybody else. Any good killing fields you know where they can get on with it without dragging us all down? Even Eric Blair I think would like your comment; I do!

I haven't read 1984, but I think the implication is that the PTB need continual warnad yes it is irony, it seems like what I ahve heard of 1984 there is a Ministry of Truth which is the government propaganda machine, the Ministry of Peace which promotes ongoing war, etc, i.e doublespeak.

ThePieSwindler
06-24-2007, 08:40 AM
Just a question... how can you be a libertarian neo-con?
I know you answered it, OP, but that line just baffles me.

nayjevin
06-24-2007, 08:48 AM
Maybe he was blinded into thinking it meant 'new conservative' and figured he wanted change in the republican party, so that must be him.

Or maybe he thought it mean uber-conservative = libertarian

maybe he thought the matrix was about libertarians.

hell i don't know.

ThePieSwindler
06-24-2007, 08:51 AM
Maybe he was blinded into thinking it meant 'new conservative' and figured he wanted change in the republican party, so that must be him.

Or maybe he thought it mean uber-conservative = libertarian

maybe he thought the matrix was about libertarians.

hell i don't know.

Haha, excellent response.

Either way, he seems open minded at least, and has just been fooled by Fox et al., but really has a good heart. I'm glad he sees the importance of honesty even if he disagrees with policy.

james1906
06-24-2007, 01:11 PM
Just a question... how can you be a libertarian neo-con?
I know you answered it, OP, but that line just baffles me.

i think that's dick cheney. libertarian society applies to him, but neo-con society for everyone else.

Estanislao
07-07-2007, 10:24 AM
Great responses.

Remember, FOX zombies are just like FOX, they sound like they know what they're talking about... and do it with conviction.

But they don't have a clue.

Studies show people who watch FOX have less knowledge about current events.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6737097743434902428&q=outfoxed&total=188&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

cowbot
07-08-2007, 02:07 PM
WE INTERRUPT THIS THREAD FOR AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE

We need 1,000-10,000 RP supporters with cheap/free long distance to help place calls to Iowa republicans right away!

The Iowa Straw Polls are Aug 11, and only 6% of Iowans surveyed have heard of Dr. Paul! We have* to get the word out!

Please See this link!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=57300