Polls Close in WI: Results here

[Agorism]

Polls Close in WI: Results here

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/elections/2011/by_county/WI_State_Senate_0809.html?SITE=AP&SECTION=POLITICS

Also NRO five things to watch in the Badger state

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/274158/five-things-watch-badger-state-robert-costa

[TRIGRHAPPY]

Looks like Democrats got their clocks cleaned pretty good in all but 1.

Another site, with numbers a little more dummy friendly....

http://wisconsin.onpolitix.com/pages/260/august-9-2011-state-senate-recall-election-results

[AdamT]

Yep, GOP dominating. This is especially hilarious since it was the insane Dems in this state who rabidly collected all the needed recall signatures, hell bent on weakening Walker. Then the election happens and they get destroyed. Oops.

[TRIGRHAPPY]

Lets not forget that the unions have spent MILLIONS on these recall elections. It all seems to have been pissed away for nothing similar to the millions they spent rallying against walker's law, and millions more they spent to try and lock it up in the courts.

[reillym]

Lets not forget that the unions have spent MILLIONS on these recall elections. It all seems to have been pissed away for nothing similar to the millions they spent rallying against walker's law, and millions more they spent to try and lock it up in the courts.

Wrong. Repubs spent WAY more (*by undisclosed sourced via Citizens United). Get your facts right. Citizens United allowed millions of dollars from corporations to go into republican coffers. Repubs outspent dems by a far amount.

Also, Koch Industries mailed out thousands of FAKE ballot information packets to democrats that said the election was delayed to next week. That's what Gov. Walker is doing, and nobody in their right mind supports that crook.

[reillym]

The weakening of unions in america over the past 30 years has followed the decline of middle class power and income. Just so everyone knows.

[reillym]

Also, keep in mind these districts have been republican for a very, very long time. The radical, illegal tactics of Walker are on recall. Freedom rings.

[tsai3904]

Lets not forget that the unions have spent MILLIONS on these recall elections.


Wrong. Repubs spent WAY more. Get your facts right.

What facts did he get wrong? Did he say that Democrats spent more than Republicans?

[reillym]

Yep, GOP dominating. This is especially hilarious since it was the insane Dems in this state who rabidly collected all the needed recall signatures, hell bent on weakening Walker. Then the election happens and they get destroyed. Oops.

People who want a voice in democracy are not insane or rabid you fool. Koch Industries and Gov Walker illegally tried to strip union power. He gave away public resources to private, mega rich corporations. People are taking to the streets against this totalitarianism.

[reillym]

What facts did he get wrong? Did he say that Republicans spent more than Democrats?

The implication was that the unions are the ones running all the cash in these elections. That is demonstrably and patently false.

[tsai3904]

The implication was that the unions are the ones running all the cash in these elections. That is demonstrably and patently false.

Implications = Facts?

[reillym]

Implications = Facts?

Never said that. Sorry if you were confused. teabaggers think the unions are the ones with all the money. Secret corporations donating to repubs are the real money dealers.

[TRIGRHAPPY]

The weakening of unions in america over the past 30 years has followed the decline of middle class power and income. Just so everyone knows.

Actually, the weaking of America has followed the strengthening of unions over the last 30 years. Don't get me wrong, I support the right for workers to get together to bargain for changes with their employer. What I don't support is ANY legislation giving one party additional bargaining powers. Wisconsin, Michigan, and many other states were literally handing near total power to the unions. I mean, if an employer cannot fire workers for striking, the employer has lost every bargaining chip...period. It would be similar to a law banning workers from striking. They would lose all bargaining abilities. You take away either, and you CANNOT have a fair and honest negotiation.

[Danke]

teabaggers think the unions are the ones with all the money.

What's a "teabagger?" Isn't that a reference to some homosexual activity?

[reillym]

Actually, the weaking of America has followed the strengthening of unions over the last 30 years. Don't get me wrong, I support the right for workers to get together to bargain for changes with their employer. What I don't support is ANY legislation giving one party additional bargaining powers. Wisconsin, Michigan, and many other states were literally handing near total power to the unions. I mean, if an employer cannot fire workers for striking, the employer has lost every bargaining chip...period. It would be similar to a law banning workers from striking. They would lose all bargaining abilities. You take away either, and you CANNOT have a fair and honest negotiation.

Union membership has been falling for the past 30 years. They have not been given more and more power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_United_States#Membership

Just so you know.

[AdamT]

People who want a voice in democracy are not insane or rabid you fool. Koch Industries and Gov Walker illegally tried to strip union power. He gave away public resources to private, mega rich corporations. People are taking to the streets against this totalitarianism.

Do you live in WI? You're red -rep is telling.

[reillym]

Do you live in WI? You're red -rep is telling.

Yes, because rep is what defines a person. I'm an atheist, so my rep is red on this forum. I also vehemently support Ron Paul. I don't live in WI, but I recognize a crook when I see one, and Gov Walker is one. Unions are not the problem, either economically or socially. End of story.

[libertybrewcity]

Also, keep in mind these districts have been republican for a very, very long time. The radical, illegal tactics of Walker are on recall. Freedom rings.

How were they illegal? The illegal unconstitutional public unions have destroyed my state. You just want to keep your taxpayer money sucking government jobs so people can continuously be dependent on the state for survival.

[libertybrewcity]

Yes, because rep is what defines a person. I'm an atheist, so my rep is red on this forum. I also vehemently support Ron Paul. I don't live in WI, but I recognize a crook when I see one, and Gov Walker is one. Unions are not the problem, either economically or socially. End of story.

public unions are not unions, they are a wing of the government. Voluntary unions are perfectly acceptable.

[RM918]

Yes, because rep is what defines a person. I'm an atheist, so my rep is red on this forum. I also vehemently support Ron Paul. I don't live in WI, but I recognize a crook when I see one, and Gov Walker is one. Unions are not the problem, either economically or socially. End of story.

Could you argue that point without acting like a douchebag, jumping on anyone who may or may not disagree with you?

[AdamT]

Yes, because rep is what defines a person. I'm an atheist, so my rep is red on this forum. I also vehemently support Ron Paul. I don't live in WI, but I recognize a crook when I see one, and Gov Walker is one. Unions are not the problem, either economically or socially. End of story.

I lived in Madison for 5 years, and WI most of my life. And I can tell you "rabid" is about as good a definition as any.

[AGRP]

Do you live in WI? You're red -rep is telling.


How were they illegal? The illegal unconstitutional public unions have destroyed my state. You just want to keep your taxpayer money sucking government jobs so people can continuously be dependent on the state for survival.


public unions are not unions, they are a wing of the government. Voluntary unions are perfectly acceptable.


Could you argue that point without acting like a douchebag, jumping on anyone who may or may not disagree with you?


I lived in Madison for 5 years, and WI most of my life. And I can tell you "rabid" is about as good a definition as any.


http://www.philz-corner.com/how-shake-off-internet-trolls/

[reillym]

How were they illegal? The illegal unconstitutional public unions have destroyed my state. You just want to keep your taxpayer money sucking government jobs so people can continuously be dependent on the state for survival.

Gov. Walker considered placing people in the union protests to incite violence.
http://bloggingblue.com/2011/02/24/gov-scott-walker-we-thought-about-planting-troublemakers-at-rallies-supporting-public-employees/
http://ethicsbob.com/2011/02/24/wisconsin-governor-rejects-suggestion-to-send-troublemakers-into-the-demonstrations-but-only-because-it-might-backfire-politically/

He also circumvented legislative law with his anti-union bill.

[reillym]

public unions are not unions, they are a wing of the government. Voluntary unions are perfectly acceptable.

How exactly are public unions a wing of the government?

[reillym]

Could you argue that point without acting like a douchebag, jumping on anyone who may or may not disagree with you?

How did I jump on anyone? He brought up my reputation for no reason other than to incite a personal attack.

[klamath]

Looks like the democrats are winning 3 out of 5.

[reillym]

http://www.philz-corner.com/how-shake-off-internet-trolls/

Standard RPF stuff, anyone who disagrees is a "troll". How nice.

[libertybrewcity]

http://www.hongfire.com/cg/data/7/troll-spray.jpg

[libertybrewcity]

I was hoping to only lose 2 seats and then gain one in the election next week. 3 it might be.

Although Hopper is coming back. Darling and Kapanke were lucky to even have those seats. Heavily democratic areas. If Pasch wins she will be redistricted out of the seat anyways because they moved her precinct.

[Cutlerzzz]

The weakening of unions in america over the past 30 years has followed the decline of middle class power and income. Just so everyone knows.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/COMPRNFB_Max_630_378.png

There has been no weakening of the Middle Class as far as compensation has been concerned. The only difference is that a much larger part of that compensation goes to benefits now than before.

And I posted the numbers not long ago. Teaching pays more than most middle class jobs.

http://www.bullfax.com/imgs/f45d5f2d36831425d2ccc56071cabf52563cfa83.jpg

These are government union employees, not private sector. When an employee and employer decide how much to pay the employee, the employer will decide how much he is willing to offer based on how much revenue he expects to the employee to make him. If the number is $20 dollars an hour, the employer may then decide that he is willing to pay the employee no more than $19.95 an hour, as any more than that would likely be unprofitable. None the less, he would like to pay the employee the least amount possible in order to make the greatest profit. The employee will also have a number in mind, and would generally like to make the most money possible. Eventually, if the potential employee comes to an agreement with the employer, they will agree to whatever number that both expect to be mutally beneficial.

The employer bases how much he pays someone based on what he expects to be profitable. Some people believe that the employee will be exploited by the employer and paid below his potential value, and thus the employees need to form unions to protect themselves from "exploitation".

However, this does not apply to government. The government has no profit motive and no need to increase profits. There is no incentive for the government to under pay their employees. The employees, however, still want to make the most possible in most cases. So there is still upward pressure on wages from the employees, but no downward pressure on wages from the employer. That explains why government workers are generally paid so much more than their private counterparts.

There is no need for government employees to unionize. All they are doing is leeching of the rest of the middle class.

[Zatch]

Standard RPF stuff, anyone who disagrees is a "troll". How nice.

Using terms such as "Teabagger" is trolling. You can disagree and be civil.

[reillym]

There has been no weakening of the Middle Class as far as compensation has been concerned. The only difference is that a much larger part of that compensation goes to benefits now than before.

And I posted the numbers not long ago. Teaching pays more than most middle class jobs.

These are government union employees, not private sector. When an employee and employer decide how much to pay the employee, the employer will decide how much he is willing to offer based on how much revenue he expects to the employee to make him. If the number is $20 dollars an hour, the employer may then decide that he is willing to pay the employee no more than $19.95 an hour, as any more than that would likely be unprofitable. None the less, he would like to pay the employee the least amount possible in order to make the greatest profit. The employee will also have a number in mind, and would generally like to make the most money possible. Eventually, if the potential employee comes to an agreement with the employer, they will agree to whatever number that both expect to be mutally beneficial.

The employer bases how much he pays someone based on what he expects to be profitable. Some people believe that the employee will be exploited by the employer and paid below his potential value, and thus the employees need to form unions to protect themselves from "exploitation".

However, this does not apply to government. The government has no profit motive and no need to increase profits. There is no incentive for the government to under pay their employees. The employees, however, still want to make the most possible in most cases. So there is still upward pressure on wages from the employees, but no downward pressure on wages from the employer. That explains why government workers are generally paid so much more than their private counterparts.

There is no need for government employees to unionize. All they are doing is leeching of the rest of the middle class.

Of course INCOME will rise, it's called inflation. Problem is, the cost of living has been going up much faster. Are you trying to argue the middle class is better now than 40 years ago? REALLY? Honestly?

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/files/vfs/2011/03/unionincome.jpg

Public union members pay into their pensions much more than other employees. Tax payer money is not a part of it.
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/

[kahless]

How did I jump on anyone?

I hope you do realize you are posting to forum of the father of the tea party movement and are using a derogatory term teabagger to refer to some of his followers.

[reillym]

Ugh, I give up. Unions are not all bad people. Yeah, sometimes they overstep their bounds. But who doesn't? Gov. Walker is a crook, look it up. Just because he is republican doesn't mean he is good. He is a Koch Industries puppet for the super rich.

[reillym]

I hope you do realize you are posting to forum of the father of the tea party movement and are using a derogatory term teabagger to refer to some of his followers.

Eh, teabaggers != ron paul supporters IMO

[Agorism]

Update: With 79 percent in, Randy Hopper’s back in front by two points. Epic.

this

[kahless]

Eh, teabaggers != ron paul supporters IMO

Ron started the tea party movement and continues to have a large following of tea party supporters despite some groups having co-opted the movement.

[Zatch]

Eh, teabaggers != ron paul supporters IMO

Are you against Rand Paul? He created the Tea Party caucus in congress.

[libertybrewcity]

Actually taxpayers pay A TON into their pensions.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703408604576164290717724956.html

[aGameOfThrones]

Public union members pay into their pensions much more than other employees. Tax payer money is not a part of it.


I wonder how can Public employees contribute to their pensions......

[Agorism]

Update: 87 percent in now, and Hopper trails — by 137 votes. Good lord.


this

[Cutlerzzz]

Of course INCOME will rise, it's called inflation. Problem is, the cost of living has been going up much faster. Are you trying to argue the middle class is better now than 40 years ago? REALLY? Honestly?


That is adjusted to inflation. It clearly shows total compensation rising by a huge amount.

And yes, I do believe the Middle Class is better off today. Today they are paid far more, live long, have computers, flat screen TVs, Cell Phones, and Ipods. Even the lower class has most of these items. A lot of the Middle Class is in trouble due to personal debt right now, and this is a result of Fed monetary policy, not wages.



http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/files/vfs/2011/03/unionincome.jpg


That graph shows a small decline in the relative income of the Middle Class. It does not show how the Middle Class's situation has changed, only how it has changed relative to the upper class. It shows not the total amount of income the Middle Class has, but what percentage of the nations income that the Middle Class has. Between my graph and yours, we can conclude that the Middle Class is much better off today, while the Upper Class is doing even better. It's a win/win.



Public union members pay into their pensions much more than other employees. Tax payer money is not a part of it.
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/

Tax payers are paying the union members paychecks, so yes, they are paying for it.

[LibertyEsq]

Of course INCOME will rise, it's called inflation. Problem is, the cost of living has been going up much faster. Are you trying to argue the middle class is better now than 40 years ago? REALLY? Honestly?

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/files/vfs/2011/03/unionincome.jpg

Public union members pay into their pensions much more than other employees. Tax payer money is not a part of it.
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/

You can have correlation without causation...

[Agorism]

Odd numbers came out of Fond du Lac for Hopper. Way underperformed and that's where he lost his lead.

Will be interesting during the recount. I don't trust one sided numbers.

[Agorism]

http://twitter.com/#!/SeanTrende/statuses/101129688122003456


Hopper down 100, w/14 Winnebago precincts outstanding. I think they're probably all Dem leaning based on what we saw earlier.

Not sure why I care about a small scale political fight, but it's tonight's entertainment.

[libertybrewcity]

Darling is making a comebackk!!! woohoo!

[Jingles]

I really don't care for the D vs. R stuff, but this shows at least people are fighting against unions taking their government and businesses hostage (especially the government unions for they tend to get more pay than the average private sector working in the same job and better benefits... and they are fighting for no reduction or even increases... my god). Voluntary unions don't bother as long as they aren't trying to run the government. Why should people feel bad for people that get payed more than the average person and their paycheck comes from their tax dollars...

[raystone]

Dems have won 2 now. If Pasch beats Darling, they will have taken the State Senate. (at least for a week until 2 more elections)

[raystone]

@StuPolitics: WI GOPers now predicting Darling victory Very Red precincts in WaukeshaCo still out.

[emazur]

Eh, teabaggers != ron paul supporters IMO

If so called Teabaggers are into are not only calling for cuts to government spending but also to the military and advocating a non-interventionist foreign policy, as reported here (http://www.theworld.org/2011/08/defense-budget-tea-party/), then bring on the Teabaggers (seriously, read (or listen) to the article - you'd swear everyone interviewed was a Pauler)

[aGameOfThrones]

Dems have won 2 now. If Pasch beats Darling, they will have taken the State Senate. (at least for a week until 2 more elections)

So if the dems win another seat... the republicans can go on a one week vacation to Illinois?

[Teaser Rate]

Never said that. Sorry if you were confused. teabaggers think the unions are the ones with all the money. Secret corporations donating to repubs are the real money dealers.

Hey! I've worked hard to build the highest negative rep count around here, stop trying to take it away from me.

[BucksforPaul]

Hey! I've worked hard to build the highest negative rep count around here, stop trying to take it away from me.

lol. that's funny but I think he has you beat on the man made global warming propaganda.

[Cutlerzzz]

Hey! I've worked hard to build the highest negative rep count around here, stop trying to take it away from me.

Don't worry, I just negged you. He won't be catching you any time soon.

[specsaregood]

Don't worry, I just negged you. He won't be catching you any time soon.

Actually reillym is the leader in the neg rep count challenge.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/memberlist.php?order=asc&sort=reputation&pp=30

[Cutlerzzz]

actually reillym is the leader in the neg rep count challenge.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/memberlist.php?order=asc&sort=reputation&pp=30

LOL

How many negs does it take to get two bars? Anyone know?

[AdamT]

Don't worry, I just negged you. He won't be catching you any time soon.

lol

[Brett85]

People who want a voice in democracy are not insane or rabid you fool. Koch Industries and Gov Walker illegally tried to strip union power. He gave away public resources to private, mega rich corporations. People are taking to the streets against this totalitarianism.

How in the world are you a Ron Paul supporter?

[raystone]

The final result is in...Darling wins and Reps maintain control of the State Senate. Next week two recall elections for the Dems that fled to IL for 3 weeks, ignoring their constituents and their sworn duty to simply debate and vote.

[AdamT]

The final result is in...Darling wins and Reps maintain control of the State Senate. Next week two recall elections for the Dems that fled to IL for 3 weeks, ignoring their constituents and their sworn duty to simply debate and vote.

Thanks for the update.

[libertybrewcity]

How in the world are you a Ron Paul supporter?

s(he)'s not

[Agorism]

People who want a voice in democracy are not insane or rabid you fool. Koch Industries and Gov Walker illegally tried to strip union power. He gave away public resources to private, mega rich corporations. People are taking to the streets against this totalitarianism.

Exactly. If Ron Paul were president (governor in this case), and he had his way not only would "public" unions not have collective bargaining rights, but those public jobs wouldn't even exist at all in the first place.

There is no reason why public unions should be able to destroy the state budget.

[DamianTV]

Irresponsible Spening by EITHER Party is what is able to and has destroyed a lot of States Budgets.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Typical Dem (socialist) protestor...

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/4/4/1301915923113/Protesters-in-Wisconsin-a-007.jpg

LOL!

[erowe1]

There is no reason why public unions should be able to destroy the state budget.

I thought destroying the state budget was the good thing about them?

[thasre]

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/files/vfs/2011/03/unionincome.jpg


I'm noticing this graphic going around a lot among the Left, and so I just thought I would give fellow RPers something to combat it with. You'll notice the blue line represents the middle class share of income over the last few decades, which is essentially a measure of the wealth gap. It ignores the rise in real wealth that the middle class has gained during that time though.

Margaret Thatcher already took down this line of logic quite forcefully 20 years ago in this speech:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHGCz6xxiw

I hope people on this forum will draw people's attention to this video when the union-freaks start whipping out the ridiculous "union membership decreases, middle class income shrinks" graphic.

[purplechoe]

Margaret Thatcher already took down this line of logic quite forcefully 20 years ago in this speech:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHGCz6xxiw


great clip, thanks for posting it, I love the way she took on the socialist scum, I'm off to look for more Thatcher speeches...

[Carehn]

Of course INCOME will rise, it's called inflation. Problem is, the cost of living has been going up much faster. Are you trying to argue the middle class is better now than 40 years ago? REALLY? Honestly?

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/files/vfs/2011/03/unionincome.jpg

Public union members pay into their pensions much more than other employees. Tax payer money is not a part of it.
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/

As union members decrease so do costs and this graph is based off of a flawed measurement (the dollar). It does not take into account the price of goods and services in said state. Just what the nation considers middle class. This graph is subjective and therefor useless.