Riots in London

[wannaberocker]

So i guess there are Riots going on in London after police shot and killed a man. However, i think the bigger issues is that if Govt becomes your crutch. This is to be expected when they take away your free meal. It seems from the article that most of the riots are around people not having jobs and complaining that govt is not doing anything to create jobs. I fear this mentality is now in the USA and i hear people everyday say "why isnt govt creating jobs". When they dont understand that govt CANT create jobs, they dont produce anything.

http://news.yahoo.com/london-rioters-battle-police-shooting-protest-054921704.html

The sad part is that they are destroying property and damaging businesses of other people who are also prob struggling to stay afloat. Mob violance and riots have to be the most stupid way of expressing yourself. You damage the proverty of people you claim your a part of.

[moderate libertarian]

Apparently riots started in same area where 80s unrest started that swept across various cities.

These photos show a terriible picture of north London in flames.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023254/Tottenham-riots-North-London-flames-Mark-Duggan-shooting.html

[-C-]

The Free Market isn't the best creator of Jobs either. They'd rather speculate and loot, with no regards to the general welfare...all about that "Invisible Hand."

[pcosmar]

Good time to repost this,,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3-vwYJiD8g

[wannaberocker]

Apparently riots started in same area where 80s unrest started that swept across various cities.

These photos show a terriible picture of north London in flames.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023254/Tottenham-riots-North-London-flames-Mark-Duggan-shooting.html
Those are some crazy pics. Hate to be someone who has to live in tottenham.

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

The Free Market isn't the best creator of Jobs either. They'd rather speculate and loot, with no regards to the general welfare...all about that "Invisible Hand."

What the fuck?

[wannaberocker]

The Free Market isn't the best creator of Jobs either. They'd rather speculate and loot, with no regards to the general welfare...all about that "Invisible Hand."

Free Market is a general environment that needs to be there for jobs to be created. That freedom sure does allow alot more job creators to participate in diff ventures.

[RCA]

While I'm an ancap, this is the kind of crap that makes me think we are several hundred years away from achieving it.

[Lafayette]

The Free Market isn't the best creator of Jobs either. They'd rather speculate and loot, with no regards to the general welfare...all about that "Invisible Hand."

What does sound money and the voluntary exchange of goods and services without government intervention have to do with riots in the UK?

[wannaberocker]

What does sound money and the voluntary exchange of goods and services without government intervention have to do with riots in the UK?

Some of the people who were interviewed said the riots were happening because people are out of jobs and the govt is overlooking them. They feel that the govt should do "Something" in order to create jobs. But the reality is that govt dosnt create jobs its individuals in the free markets that do.

[AlexanderY]

This has NOTHING to do with the economy.

This is a race riot.

[BUSHLIED]

Shop looted and youths storm McDonald's and start cooking their own food..LOL..all that rioting makes one hungry!!

[Pericles]

Warning - these are professionals, do not try this at home.

[BlackTerrel]

I've been trying to follow this and still am not entirely clear as to what has been happening.

The MSM has been doing a piss poor job explaining.

[Anti Federalist]

While I'm an ancap, this is the kind of crap that makes me think we are several hundred years away from achieving it.

Thanks RCA, I happen to agree.

Of course the end goal is a purely voluntary society, but that's centuries down the line, maybe millennium.

Take the vast numbers of those dependent on the state, and then, in one day, tell them, that's it, that's all, fend for yourself, the result will be, well, what you are seeing in Europe right now.

Or it could go the other way, the way it did when the USSR collapsed.

They just died.

[Anti Federalist]

I've been trying to follow this and still am not entirely clear as to what has been happening.

The MSM has been doing a piss poor job explaining.

The 'gangsta' gunman killed in shoot-out with police whose death sparked riots

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2022670/Gangster-Mark-Duggan-shot-police-London-cab-shootout.html#ixzz1UOrf3fFp


And they are rioting over that, when the guy, if the reports are to be believed, starting shooting at them (how is that possible? guns are banned in the UK).

We have innocent, unarmed people gunned down, tasered and beaten down, with not so much as a peep, every day it seems like.

So maybe this was just the spark, maybe it is all about being out of work and broke.

[wannaberocker]

I just found this. The BBC interviewed 2 girls who were rioting. The reporter asked them why they were rioting they said "its the govt fault. We want to show the police that we will do what we want".
"conservatives, its their fault".
"Its the rich people, its the rich people that have businesses. its about showing the rich people we can do what we want".
These ladies sound like Obama voters.

The interview is below.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

[Cowlesy]

The 'gangsta' gunman killed in shoot-out with police whose death sparked riots

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2022670/Gangster-Mark-Duggan-shot-police-London-cab-shootout.html#ixzz1UOrf3fFp


And they are rioting over that, when the guy, if the reports are to be believed, starting shooting at them (how is that possible? guns are banned in the UK).

We have innocent, unarmed people gunned down, tasered and beaten down, with not so much as a peep, every day it seems like.

So maybe this was just the spark, maybe it is all about being out of work and broke.

That's what kills me about the whole thing. The guy shot and hit a cop (who survived) and they blew him away. Happens all the time here. But the story gets twisted around like this guy is was prancing down the street singing show tunes and some angry cops decided to dust him, and all of London erupts. Now the Anarchists are jumping in on the fun too once they saw it get started.

I'll do my duty and volunteer to wear the eggs and tomatoes, but I hope the cops, and maybe some community street teams, take to the streets and sort out these rioters. They're wantonly destroying private property, attacking innocent bystanders and destroying the community and society. You can't let this disorder go unchecked or it's right back to the State of Nature.

Screw these rioters destroying property and hurting people for no reason. I don't care if they're poor or minorities or Anarchists living off daddy's credit card while going to some half-baked liberal arts college brooding about Marxism, aggression against people and property is NOT okay no matter what their perceived grievances are. Get some street teams out there and clear them out of the neighborhood.

[Aliangel]

Breaking News: Ghaddafi recognizes London protestors as legitimate govt of the UK. Ghaddafi said in a brief statement "It has come to my attention that London protestors are now in every zenga zenga (Road), I urge NATO to impose an immediate no fly zone to insure humanitarian aid can get to the people that need it the most"

[Acala]

That's what kills me about the whole thing. The guy shot and hit a cop (who survived) and they blew him away. Happens all the time here. But the story gets twisted around like this guy is was prancing down the street singing show tunes and some angry cops decided to dust him, and all of London erupts. Now the Anarchists are jumping in on the fun too once they saw it get started.

I'll do my duty and volunteer to wear the eggs and tomatoes, but I hope the cops, and maybe some community street teams, take to the streets and sort out these rioters. They're wantonly destroying private property, attacking innocent bystanders and destroying the community and society. You can't let this disorder go unchecked or it's right back to the State of Nature.

Screw these rioters destroying property and hurting people for no reason. I don't care if they're poor or minorities or Anarchists living off daddy's credit card while going to some half-baked liberal arts college brooding about Marxism, aggression against people and property is NOT okay no matter what their perceived grievances are. Get some street teams out there and clear them out of the neighborhood.

Or let people own guns and use whatever force is necessary to protect their property.

[UWDude]

That's what kills me about the whole thing. The guy shot and hit a cop (who survived) and they blew him away. Happens all the time here. But the story gets twisted around like this guy is was prancing down the street singing show tunes and some angry cops decided to dust him, and all of London erupts. Now the Anarchists are jumping in on the fun too once they saw it get started.

I'll do my duty and volunteer to wear the eggs and tomatoes, but I hope the cops, and maybe some community street teams, take to the streets and sort out these rioters. They're wantonly destroying private property, attacking innocent bystanders and destroying the community and society. You can't let this disorder go unchecked or it's right back to the State of Nature.

Screw these rioters destroying property and hurting people for no reason. I don't care if they're poor or minorities or Anarchists living off daddy's credit card while going to some half-baked liberal arts college brooding about Marxism, aggression against people and property is NOT okay no matter what their perceived grievances are. Get some street teams out there and clear them out of the neighborhood.

---or---

Now it is shown the police have no proof of any shoot out, and the bullet lodged in a police radio they claimed was his, is actually one of their own. But there has been tons of evidenced presented lately that the police are CORRUPT AS HELL.

---and---

I'm glad to see London being burnt and looted. Serves them right for burning and looting Libya.

[Acala]

---or---

Now it is shown the police have no proof of any shoot out, and the bullet lodged in a police radio they claimed was his, is actually one of their own.

---and---

I'm glad to see London being burnt and looted. Serves them right for burning and looting Libya.

If they were burning police stations and other government buildings, I would agree with you. But they are attacking the property of individual people who probably had nothing to do with shooting the fellow or bombing Lybia.

[UWDude]

It doesn't have to be. The thugs are just being thugs. It still serves Britain right. Britain is bombing people in Libya that would have never dreamt of slaughtering their fellow Libyans. I think it has become pretty obvious, that peaceful protest gets you NOTHING. When students were protesting the implementation of tuition by lawmakers who got free educations, the lawmakers said the exact same things: called them thugs, and kids who have nothing better to do, and lawless miscreants.

How many people have been charged for the police hacking scandal yet? How many arrests have been made over the large web of corruption that was uncovered? Will the rioters get off like Murdoch did, by putting on a suit and tie and making an apology in some show room court case? I doubt it. It is obvious to ANYONE that there are two sets of rulebooks in Britain. One for the police and the wealthy, and one for everybody else.

What a surprise, a country run by looting thugs is now being looted by thugs.

[UWDude]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/09/mark-duggan-police-ipcc

Mark Duggan did not shoot at police, says IPCC
IPCC releases initial findings of ballistics tests in police shooting of Mark Duggan, whose death sparked London riots

Wait, what, the Brit police lying? NO, can't be! Can we hack their phones and see what other bull they are up to? Oh, I guess only police are allowed to do that. Hey, can we set up cameras on every street corner, and prosecute them for jaywalking? No, that's only for the lowly serfs.

[wannaberocker]

I sometimes find it disturbing how much hatred of the police many people on this forum show. They lump all cops world wide into this box of thugs. It seems like in the eyes of some people the cops can never do right. It is simply amazing to me how people who are generally always talking about not generalizing groups, often do just that when it comes to Cops.
Sure there are dirty cops around. You deal with them on an indivdual bases. What you dont do is cheer on riots that damage private property, innocent bystanders, destroy peoples businesses etc.

[UWDude]

I sometimes find it disturbing how much hatred of the police many people on this forum show. They lump all cops world wide into this box of thugs. It seems like in the eyes of some people the cops can never do right. It is simply amazing to me how people who are generally always talking about not generalizing groups, often do just that when it comes to Cops.
Sure there are dirty cops around. You deal with them on an individual bases. What you don't do is cheer on riots that damage private property, innocent bystanders, destroy peoples businesses etc.

Have you been paying attention to the scandals coming out, regarding the phone hacking scandal, and how utterly corrupt the London police are? Did you just miss that the police investigation commission has already concluded that the police shot a man, then lied and tried to demonize his corpse, by saying he shot at them, calling everyone around liars who said that wasn't the case? Did you miss that? Within minutes of the man's death, people were calling the dead man a useless thug, gansgter, and praising their police for clearing the streets of one more useless thug. And I loooove how Ruperts media put a picture on their papers of the victim holding his two fingers up in what could be some kind of gun like gesture. Nice propaganda move, phone-hackers-cop-owners-R-us.


Sure there are dirty cops around. You deal with them on an indivdual bases. What you dont do is cheer on riots that damage private property, innocent bystanders, destroy peoples businesses etc.

No, it is more than just a couple of dirty cops, it is a dirty police department, a dirty government that works hand in hand with a brainwashing machine so their slaves will be docile who go along with whatever their masters tell them.

And then when the powerless erupt in violence, the powerful act shocked. There is nothing shocking about this. It is simply a peasant riot. Peasant riots happen all the time, and become more frequent the more tyrannical governments become. And history has shown they are VERY effective in getting the message through, because all the other channels of lawful dispute become owned by the government. There is no recourse.

[wannaberocker]

Have you been paying attention to the scandals coming out, regarding the phone hacking scandal, and how utterly corrupt the London police are? Did you just miss that the police investigation commission has already concluded that the police shot a man, then lied and tried to demonize his corpse, by saying he shot at them, calling everyone around liars who said that wasn't the case? Did you miss that?
And like i pointed out you deal with those corrupt cops on an indivdual bases. There are thousands of Cops in England, what you dont do is demonize them all for the actions of a 100 or 200 etc. The cops who shot this guy are prob not even on the scene anymore. But cops who had nothing to do with the shooting were injured on the first day of riots.

Just because someone wears a uniform does not make them corrupt.

[silverhandorder]

Look these people whether right or wrong about being mad about the shooting are committing crimes now. They are breaking property and stealing. Police response should be harsh enough to stop this.

[Cowlesy]

Drudge reports that American baseball bats are a top-seller in the UK right now. Hopefully it's people ready to protect their neighborhoods.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/ref=zg_bsms_tab

[UWDude]

And like i pointed out you deal with those corrupt cops on an indivdual bases. There are thousands of Cops in England, what you dont do is demonize them all for the actions of a 100 or 200 etc. The cops who shot this guy are prob not even on the scene anymore. But cops who had nothing to do with the shooting were injured on the first day of riots.

Just because someone wears a uniform does not make them corrupt.

So the answer is, no, no you have not been payuing attention to the phone hacking scandal, and how much corruption it exposed at all levels of the police department.

And let me tell you something else:

ALL POLICE ARE PART OF THE CORRUPT SYSTEM. They bust people for weed, they hand out fines non-chalantly that can break poor people's finances, while using flippant phrases like "you'll need to talk to your representative about that" and act like it is no big deal. They call their tow company buddies to rob your car and throw it in an impound lot.

I bet every single kid out their smashing things has had at least a couple encounters with the police, where the police treated them like children, or took from them, or humiliated them, or gave them a fine for some petty bull. Stopped them on the way to their friends house and patted them down for drug paraphernalia. All those little things add up. You treat people like kids, criminals, and rebels, don't be surprised when they act like kids, criminals, and rebels.

And I know you are going to try to argue, "well they shoudn't have been breaking the laws" That means they should not have been living, because everything is illegal.

I got my car impounded for being parked in front of my own damn house for more than 72 hours. I didn't even know because I rarely use my car, and walk down a hill to catch the bus. 5 days later, I go up the hill, my car is gone. That cost me $430 in impound fees and fines... ...for being parked in front of my own house.

So if I see a riot in my city, guess what? I'm putting a hood on and smashing things. Because I know damn well nobody in city hall gives a flying fuck. They need their $80,000 a year salaries too much to be bothered by the plight of some knave.

[Cowlesy]

So the answer is, no, no you have not been payuing attention to the phone hacking scandal, and how much corruption it exposed at all levels of the police department.

And let me tell you something else:

ALL POLICE ARE PART OF THE CORRUPT SYSTEM. They bust people for weed, they hand out fines non-chalantly that can break poor people's finances, while using flippant phrases like "you'll need to talk to your representative about that" and act like it is no big deal. They call their tow company buddies to rob your car and throw it in an impound lot.

I bet every single kid out their smashing things has had at least a couple encounters with the police, where the police treated them like children, or took from them, or humiliated them, or gave them a fine for some petty bull. All those little things add up. And I know you are going to try to argue, "well they shoudn't have been breaking the laws" That means they should not have been living, because everything is illegal.

I got my car impounded for being parked in front of my own damn house for more than 72 hours. I didn't even know because I rarely use my car, and walk down a hill to catch the bus. 5 days later, I go up the hill, my car is gone. That cost me $430 in impound fees and fines... ...for being parked in front of my own house.

blahblahblah. I hope to restore order to these neighborhoods the people who live their split some wigs with their new baseball bats from amazon.com, and especially of the kids beating innocent bystanders or looting/destroying random shops.

[wannaberocker]

So the answer is, no, no you have not been payuing attention to the phone hacking scandal, and how much corruption it exposed at all levels of the police department.

And let me tell you something else:

ALL POLICE ARE PART OF THE CORRUPT SYSTEM. They bust people for weed, they hand out fines non-chalantly that can break poor people's finances, while using flippant phrases like "you'll need to talk to your representative about that" and act like it is no big deal. They call their tow company buddies to rob your car and throw it in an impound lot.

I bet every single kid out their smashing things has had at least a couple encounters with the police, where the police treated them like children, or took from them, or humiliated them, or gave them a fine for some petty bull. All those little things add up. And I know you are going to try to argue, "well they shoudn't have been breaking the laws" That means they should not have been living, because everything is illegal.

I got my car impounded for being parked in front of my own damn house for more than 72 hours. I didn't even know because I rarely use my car, and walk down a hill to catch the bus. 5 days later, I go up the hill, my car is gone. That cost me $430 in impound fees and fines... ...for being parked in front of my own house.

So if I see a riot in my city, guess what? I'm putting a hood on and smashing things. Because I know damn well nobody in city hall gives a flying fuck. They need their $80,000 a year salaries too much to be bothered by the plight of some knave.

Alll your arguments are kinda out there. The police do not make laws, the police are there to enforce laws. THe weed laws are not laws that any individual cop made up. If i become a cop now, do you think ill have any say in changing laws that i dont like? No. I would have to do my job and enforce the laws that the governing body passes.
If you should blame anyone you should blame the politicians who pass such laws.
You also generalize when it comes to the thugs who are rioting. Making them victims of some unknown crime by cops against them.
Again all your argument is based on generalizations and it dosnt work.

[Cowlesy]

So if I see a riot in my city, guess what? I'm putting a hood on and smashing things. Because I know damn well nobody in city hall gives a flying fuck. They need their $80,000 a year salaries too much to be bothered by the plight of some knave.

Yeah you do that tough guy, and burn some buildings and some innocent people alive. Yeah, you show the system who's in charge!

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/09/article-2023874-0D5B629200000578-128_472x496.jpg

[UWDude]

blahblahblah. I hope to restore order to these neighborhoods the people who live their split some wigs with their new baseball bats from amazon.com, and especially of the kids beating innocent bystanders or looting/destroying random shops.

Then you and me want the same thing, open warfare on the streets of London. Because then next, it would be time for the British empire to slide further into demise. Maybe it can start killing its own people, instead of killing people all over the world.

[UWDude]

Yeah you do that tough guy, and burn some buildings and some innocent people alive. Yeah, you show the system who's in charge!


Nobody was burned alive, but somebody was shot, and then demonized after he was dead, and then they tried to get away with it, by lying and saying he shot at them. Of course, cops do this kind of stuff every day, brutalize someone, blame their roid rage on the victim, and then abuse their power to make themselves look like some kind of hero.

And you, you oh mighty judge of that which is righteous, ate the cops' lies up like a pig at the trough. You weer sure their story was true. You didn't even stop and ask if maybe the cops were lying to save their own skin, nope, you just hopped on their little wagon of lies and yelled yee-haw, one more dead thug. That shows you still don't understand how and why corruption exists.

[Cowlesy]

Then you and me want the same thing, open warfare on the streets of London. Because then next, it would be time for the British empire to slide further into demise. Maybe it can start killing its own people, instead of killing people all over the world.

I don't want open warfare, I want people to have spines and protect their communities and property. I want your little anarcho-whatever friends to crawl back into their brooding marxist holes from which they emerged.

[UWDude]

That's what kills me about the whole thing. The guy shot and hit a cop (who survived) and they blew him away.

Isn't this you? Isn't this you jumping to the defense of a bunch of liars behind badges? And if these riots had not happened, what would you be thinking now, about the extinguished life of this young man? You wouldn't be giving it any thought at all, and even if you did, you would just assure yourself he deserved it and move on.

In fact, I bet, right now, right now, in your desire to be right, and the big winner in the internet flame warz, even though I gave a link which shows a commission has already concluded the police lied about the shoot out... right now, YOU ARE STILL SURE the victim was just a lowlife who probably deserved to be killed.


I don't want open warfare, I want people to have spines and protect their communities and property.

Protect their communities and property? How else do you fight a government that kills your people and then calls them useless thugs? You can't go to the government, because the government doesn't care, it will protect itself.

[UWDude]

If you should blame anyone you should blame the politicians who pass such laws.


Wrong, you blame the politicians who make the laws... And the media workers who prop them up... AND the police who enforce them... AND the peopel who work for such politicians.... AND the people who vote for the politicians... AND all the rest of the people who do nothing but sit idly by and cluck their tongues then pat themselves on the back for being such rule following little piglets at the teets of their queen.

[Cowlesy]

Protect their communities and property? How else do you fight a government that kills your people and then calls them useless thugs? You can't go to the government, because the government doesn't care, it will protect itself.

If your solution to crappy government where you have a say in what happens is violence, then you don't belong here. That is not what this forum advocates and we don't condone it. Beating people and destroying private property of people who have not aggressed you is not self-defense, it's unchecked aggression and is anti-thetical to what we're about.

[UWDude]

If your solution to crappy government where you have a say in what happens is violence, then you don't belong here. That is not what this forum advocates and we don't condone it. Beating people and destroying private property of people who have not aggressed you is not self-defense, it's unchecked aggression and is anti-thetical to what we're about.


Oh wait, but you were the one advocating people go out in the streets with baseball bats and crack some skulls.

And, um, when are you going to apologize for calling the victim that all this started over an attempted cop-murderer?

Is Ron Paul forums all about taking the police at their word, before there is even any kind of investigation? What made you so sure the police were telling the truth? What made you the great all-seeing witness that knew he wasn't just minding his own business, riding in a taxi-cab? You were sure from the beginning he deserved to DIE. Yes, be murdered, you were justifying it from the outset. So don't talk to me about these forums not advocating violence, it was you who first started with the lusty vindication of murder of a young man.

[Acala]

People who wantonly steal and destroy the property of their neighbors deserve to get shot. The fact that their government sucks and the cops suck does not in the slightest absolve them for violating the rights of innocent people.

The huge and unsupported jump in UWDude's "argument" is that bad government justifies ignoring EVERYONE'S rights. It doesn't.

Furthermore, the idea that any significant percentage of these rioters are actually motivated politically is not evident from what I have seen. On the contrary, they appear to be taking advantage of a mob situation to have a looting party.

[Cowlesy]

Oh wait, but you were the one advocating people go out in the streets with baseball bats and crack some skulls.

And, um, when are you going to apologize for calling the victim that all this started over an attempted cop-murderer?

Is Ron Paul forums all about taking the police at their word, before there is even any kind of investigation?

Hell yes people should go out and crack some skulls to protect their property. What? Should I just let you torch my home because you have some angst against crooked cops?

Puhlease.

[ctiger2]

The Free Market isn't the best creator of Jobs either. They'd rather speculate and loot, with no regards to the general welfare...all about that "Invisible Hand."

Most if not all productive jobs in the US were/are created in the free market. What you're referring to is the fascist govt aspect of this country. The fascist part is the one that speculates and loots with no regard.

[UWDude]

Hell yes people should go out and crack some skulls to protect their property. What? Should I just let you torch my home because you have some angst against crooked cops?

Puhlease.

In case you missed this part:


And, um, when are you going to apologize for calling the victim that all this started over an attempted cop-murderer?

Is Ron Paul forums all about taking the police at their word, before there is even any kind of investigation? What made you so sure the police were telling the truth? What made you the great all-seeing witness that knew he wasn't just minding his own business, riding in a taxi-cab? You were sure from the beginning he deserved to DIE. Yes, be murdered, you were justifying it from the outset. So don't talk to me about these forums not advocating violence, it was you who first started with the lusty vindication of murder of a young man.

I'd also like to point out how glibly you took the murder of someone, trying to turn it into some comedy show, talking about him prancing around. Say that to his grieving parents faces.


-------------------------------


Furthermore, the idea that any significant percentage of these rioters are actually motivated politically is not evident from what I have seen. On the contrary, they appear to be taking advantage of a mob situation to have a looting party.


None of them are politically motivated. Why should they be. This is obvious rage and opportunism to fight the rage and opportunism spilt upon them. Nothing is politically motivated anymore. Nobody thinks about the good of their own country any more. Nobody thinks about how their stupid laws hurt their neighbors. Everything is about property values and insurance rates and how the system works and making a paycheck. That is just the way it is.

[Cowlesy]

In case you missed this part:




-------------------------------




None of them are politically motivated. Why should they be. This is obvious rage and opportunism to fight the rage and opportunism spilt upon them. Nothing is politically motivated anymore. Nobody thinks about the good of their own country any more. Nobody thinks about how their stupid laws hurt their neighbors. Everything is about property values and insurance rates and how the system works and making a paycheck. That is just the way it is.

So, once the investigation is done and they find the police had cause, are you going to go back to all the people you randomly beat, property you destroyed, and pay medical bills, restitution?

So, once the investigation is done and they find the police did NOT have cause, are you going to go back to all the people you randomly beat, property you destroyed, and say "YOU ALL DESERVED IT BECAUSE OF SOME STUPID COP. O'DOYLE RULES."

[UWDude]

Hell yes people should go out and crack some skulls to protect their property. What? Should I just let you torch my home because you have some angst against crooked cops?

Puhlease.

So when do I get to go smash up the tow company and the parking police? They stole my car and held it for ransom. can I beat the meter maid with a bat from amazon.com next time I see her?

Should I have just gone to the tow yard, and shot the people up, and took my car back?

[UWDude]

If this was the only time in history, the London police did something corrupt, then tried to use their power to cover the corruption. There wouldn't be any riots. If it was the only time this year, there would not be any riots. If it was the only time this month, there would not be any riots.

Riots are not just some unseen natural disaster that spring out of nothing.

[AuH20]

So now these gangs have shakedown checkpoints?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024001/UK-riots-2011-London-Birmingham-people-forced-strip-naked-street.html

[Cowlesy]

So when do I get to go smash up the tow company and the parking police? They stole my car and held it for ransom. can I beat the meter maid with a bat from amazon.com next time I see her?

Should I have just gone to the tow yard, and shot the people up, and took my car back?

You can petition for redress in all of those situations in a court of law. Defending your home from being torched is not equal to attacking the tow truck driver because you were in violation of an idiotic law.

You can play this game all day long but you are never going to convince me that violence/rioting is justified against random people and property like what's going on. If you go try and set someone's house on fire for the lulz and get a louisville slugger to the dome by the homeowner, you earned it.

[UWDude]

So now these gangs have shakedown checkpoints?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024001/UK-riots-2011-London-Birmingham-people-forced-strip-naked-street.html

looks like they learned a tactic or two in their encounters with the police.

[Cowlesy]

So now these gangs have shakedown checkpoints?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024001/UK-riots-2011-London-Birmingham-people-forced-strip-naked-street.html

Didn't you see? Some guy got shot by a cop so now it's OK to mug random people on the streets. UWDude is that you? Kid has cool jeans, don't blame you.

[UWDude]

You can petition for redress in all of those situations in a court of law.


No I can't, and you know it. I will never see that $430 again. You know damn well I can "petition", but that they will never give ti back, or change their stupid laws. They stole from me, because they could, and they need that money to run their bureaucracy.


Didn't you see? Some guy got shot by a cop so now it's OK to mug random people on the streets. UWDude is that you? Kid has cool jeans, don't blame you.

Yeah, that is me, I was just making sure he didn't have any weapons on him. I scored some cash, which I knew he got from selling drugs, and a nice watch too, which I also knew he got from selling drugs. And those jeans, yeah, he is definitely a drug dealer. I am putting it in a locker for a few years, and then I am going to sell it at an auction, so I can use it to pay myself.

[juleswin]

---or---

Now it is shown the police have no proof of any shoot out, and the bullet lodged in a police radio they claimed was his, is actually one of their own. But there has been tons of evidenced presented lately that the police are CORRUPT AS HELL.

---and---

I'm glad to see London being burnt and looted. Serves them right for burning and looting Libya.

This. If anything, it distracts them from the dead and destruction they are imposing on Libya and its people. This is Karma on the collective of the British people who sat silently as their govt killed Libyans

[AuH20]

Didn't you see? Some guy got shot by a cop so now it's OK to mug random people on the streets. UWDude is that you? Kid has cool jeans, don't blame you.

If this happens over here, I'm going Charles Bronson on these fools. And I hate the government I might add.

[UWDude]

This. If anything, it distracts them from the dead and destruction they are imposing on Libya and its people. This is Karma on the collective of the British people who sat silently as their govt killed Libyans


and Afghanistan, and Iraq, and Iran, and all the African countries where many of these rioters ancestors come from that are hated so much. Burning, pillaging and looting is what Brits do best.

[showpan]

Some of the people who were interviewed said the riots were happening because people are out of jobs and the govt is overlooking them. They feel that the govt should do "Something" in order to create jobs. But the reality is that govt dosnt create jobs its individuals in the free markets that do.

In reality, they sold them out just as they have done here using "free market" lingo that has done nothing but eliminate their jobs. The UK and most of Europe know who has sold them out. I can't read most of their languages but NWO stands out on a lot of protest signs. Maybe this is why the media here doesn't cover much of it. It will spread here soon enough as more and more people have become aware of what is actually happening.

[wannaberocker]

Wrong, you blame the politicians who make the laws... And the media workers who prop them up... AND the police who enforce them... AND the peopel who work for such politicians.... AND the people who vote for the politicians... AND all the rest of the people who do nothing but sit idly by and cluck their tongues then pat themselves on the back for being such rule following little piglets at the teets of their queen.

Your Sir are off your rocker.

[Pericles]

People who wantonly steal and destroy the property of their neighbors deserve to get shot. The fact that their government sucks and the cops suck does not in the slightest absolve them for violating the rights of innocent people.

The huge and unsupported jump in UWDude's "argument" is that bad government justifies ignoring EVERYONE'S rights. It doesn't.

Furthermore, the idea that any significant percentage of these rioters are actually motivated politically is not evident from what I have seen. On the contrary, they appear to be taking advantage of a mob situation to have a looting party.

That ^^^ right there. Those who steal property in my AO will be shot. Those who attack others in my AO will be shot. Those who vandalize other's property in my AO will be shot.

I and my associates stand for civilization, the rule of law, and the Constitution of the United States.Our duty is to protect the rights and property of our fellow citizens against the umbrages of land pirates and their ilk.

[UWDude]

That ^^^ right there. Those who steal property in my AO will be shot. Those who attack others in my AO will be shot. Those who vandalize other's property in my AO will be shot.

I and my associates stand for civilization, the rule of law, and the Constitution of the United States.Our duty is to protect the rights and property of our fellow citizens against the umbrages of land pirates and their ilk.

Unless, of course, it's the cops stealing property. Then you will do nothing of the sort.

[Pericles]

and Afghanistan, and Iraq, and Iran, and all the African countries where many of these rioters ancestors come from that are hated so much. Burning, pillaging and looting is what Brits do best.

Very seldom do I -rep on this board, but the temptation to do so is growing stronger with each of your posts which lead me to believe you have no respect for the rights of people not to be assaulted or their property destroyed based on your concept of "social justice".

When you get to the point that random violence is acceptable, than there should be no surprise when you are the target of said violence.

[Mini-Me]

No I can't, and you know it. I will never see that $430 again. You know damn well I can "petition", but that they will never give ti back, or change their stupid laws. They stole from me, because they could, and they need that money to run their bureaucracy.



Yeah, that is me, I was just making sure he didn't have any weapons on him. I scored some cash, which I knew he got from selling drugs, and a nice watch too, which I also knew he got from selling drugs. And those jeans, yeah, he is definitely a drug dealer. I am putting it in a locker for a few years, and then I am going to sell it at an auction, so I can use it to pay myself.

The entire "law enforcement" apparatus is hopelessly corrupt, and it's endemic to the system. Most people here get that.

Where you go wrong is with crap like this:

So if I see a riot in my city, guess what? I'm putting a hood on and smashing things. Because I know damn well nobody in city hall gives a flying fuck. They need their $80,000 a year salaries too much to be bothered by the plight of some knave.

So, since you've been wronged, and since the government is corrupt, that now gives you the right to commit similar wrongs to whomever you want? You're pissed at the cops and general corruption, so you're going to smash in Mr. Wilson's car and set fire to his bakery? Go ahead and steal your neighbor's stereo and TV while he isn't looking, too. You've been wronged, and someone should pay! :rolleyes:

I have no idea what's going on with the shooting itself. Odds are, the cops lied completely. After all, that's what cops tend to do whenever things look bad. What happened definitely warrants scrutiny, probably warrants outrage, and quite possibly warrants severe targeted consequences. It doesn't warrant widespread looting and wanton destruction of anything you can get your hands on. That's the kind of action that collectivist brutes take.

[showpan]

That ^^^ right there. Those who steal property in my AO will be shot. Those who attack others in my AO will be shot. Those who vandalize other's property in my AO will be shot.

I and my associates stand for civilization, the rule of law, and the Constitution of the United States.Our duty is to protect the rights and property of our fellow citizens against the umbrages of land pirates and their ilk.

This is what good neighbors are for, we are well armed and have an agreement to protect each other's property.

[UWDude]

Very seldom do I -rep on this board,

Go for it. I don't care.


but the temptation to do so is growing stronger with each of your posts which lead me to believe you have no respect for the rights of people not to be assaulted or their property destroyed based on your concept of "social justice".

When you get to the point that random violence is acceptable, than there should be no surprise when you are the target of said violence.


Of course I do, I just don't care much for the Brits, when they, of all people, deserve a little violence in their lives. I wish it was a bunch of Libyans, Iraqis and Afghanis were doing it to Britain. And I wish they were bombing them mercilessly, while CNN and FOX and Al Jazeera cheered them on.

Because the British people are not going to stop disrespecting rights of people not to be assaulted or their property destroyed in nations all over the world.

yeah, I'm happy to see Britain burning. They deserve it. Yeah it's random, so what, that's the way it is when they rain down torture on people all over the world. And that is the way they have always operated. Live by the random violence sword, die by the random violence sword.


That's the kind of action that collectivist brutes take.

Is there any other option anymore in Britain? How else do you fight collectivist brutes except with more collectivist brutes. Sorry, the world sucks, and all it is is a bunch of thick skulled collectivist brutes. Some operate under color of law and veneer of civilization, and some don't, but in the end, they all are a bunch of selfish pigs taking from one another however they can.

[Pericles]

This is what good neighbors are for, we are well armed and have an agreement to protect each other's property.

Yep - got rifles?

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/Pericles-photo/A2-3.jpg

Got ammo?

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/Pericles-photo/556.jpg

[Mini-Me]

yeah, I'm happy to see Britain burning. They deserve it. Yeah it's random, so what, that's the way it is when they rain down torture on people all over the world. And that is the way they have always operated. Live by the random violence sword, die by the random violence sword.
The same goes for the US government, and you're an American, so obviously that's the way YOU have always operated too, and it's nothing less than you personally deserve. Right? :rolleyes: Of course, maybe you do, given you seem to live by the random violence sword, as you say. There are a bunch of people here, and in London, and all over the world who very much do not live by that sword, however.



Is there any other option anymore in Britain? How else do you fight collectivist brutes except with more collectivist brutes. Sorry, the world sucks, and all it is is a bunch of thick skulled collectivist brutes. Some operate under color of law and veneer of civilization, and some don't, but in the end, they all are a bunch of selfish pigs taking from one another however they can.
Are you projecting your own flaws onto others here? If you're going to be a vigilante, at least be an individualist vigilante. Otherwise, you're not fighting the collectivist brutes in charge in the first place. Instead, you're indiscriminately attacking your friends, your neighbors, your family...the very people who have suffered alongside you, and the very people who have been just as powerless as you to stop the beast (or at the very least, too deluded to understand what's going on). Meanwhile, the people in charge are totally insulated from your attacks, and they're laughing their asses off over the hoi polloi eating each other. To me, that sounds a lot like a boot stomping on a human face...forever. Do you WANT humanity to sink to the lowest common denominator?

[UWDude]

guns are mostly illegal in Britain. And the young man was killed by the gun investigation task force, because he had a gun. he probably had a gun because he was surrounded by the very people that are going around rioting and looting because nobody has guns.

[Corey]

UWDude you talk a lot of complete bullshit, even for a troll. There is a general consensus here that liberty does not = anarchy. Historically, even anarchists would be on the side of those here defending property and innocent lives.

You are a complete tool. Take some more classes from your Marxist professors at UW, and keep believing that you came up with the inane thoughts that inhabit your empty head.

/thread

[Zippyjuan]

The sad thing about riots is that they actually most harm the people protesting the tough conditions. Not enough jobs? Sure, lets burn down the ones around here. Angry that the police killed somebody? Let's kill other people and destroy property. Want the police out? Rioting invites even more of them in. In london, one family had their business burned down- it had been in the family for over 140 years and survived two world wars and the Great Depression.

[UWDude]

http://i.imgur.com/3gWOB.png

[UWDude]

UWDude you talk a lot of complete bullshit, even for a troll. There is a general consensus here that liberty does not = anarchy. Historically, even anarchists would be on the side of those here defending property and innocent lives.

You are a complete tool. Take some more classes from your Marxist professors at UW, and keep believing that you came up with the inane thoughts that inhabit your empty head.

/thread

Pfft, Aug 2007, 11 posts. Sock puppet account. Nice one, troll.

You all are saying this is just thugs trying to get free tvs, which is exactly what the Bomb happy BBC and the Hacking Murdoch tabloid press want you to think. You cant see this is the result of pent up frustration over powerlessness and complete disregard by the UK government for the plight of their underclasses. They are attacking police stations and cars too. They are looting and ransacking stores for the sake of ransacking and burning. This is rage of the oppressed manifest. And guess what? IT IS ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE, AND IT IS COMING TO AMERICA.

As one rioter put it: "We see on the news all the time everyone is getting everything for free, we figure, why can't we?"

Ill add to that, "we see on the news everybody in high power getting away with crimes every day, so we figured, why not us too?"

[silverhandorder]

Does not change the fact that they are attacking 3rd parties. Why don't they attack the police head quarters or the parliament? They would get their asses handed to them. So they instead opt out to steal some TV's and electronics.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tigA5OubpFQ&feature=feedu

[silverhandorder]

Pfft, Aug 2007, 11 posts. Sock puppet account. Nice one, troll.

You all are saying this is just thugs trying to get free tvs, which is exactly what the Bomb happy BBC and the Hacking Murdoch tabloid press want you to think. You cant see this is the result of pent up frustration over powerlessness and complete disregard by the UK government for the plight of their underclasses. They are attacking police stations and cars too. They are looting and ransacking stores for the sake of ransacking and burning. This is rage of the oppressed manifest. And guess what? IT IS ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE, AND IT IS COMING TO AMERICA.

As one rioter put it: "We see on the news all the time everyone is getting everything for free, we figure, why can't we?"

Ill add to that, "we see on the news everybody in high power getting away with crimes every day, so we figured, why not us too?"

Sorry but I would like to see the proof where they are attacking police and government buildings. All I see is mugging of innocent people and destruction of private property.

[Cowlesy]

Pfft, Aug 2007, 11 posts. Sock puppet account. Nice one, troll.

You all are saying this is just thugs trying to get free tvs, which is exactly what the Bomb happy BBC and the Hacking Murdoch tabloid press want you to think. You cant see this is the result of pent up frustration over powerlessness and complete disregard by the UK government for the plight of their underclasses. They are attacking police stations and cars too. They are looting and ransacking stores for the sake of ransacking and burning. This is rage of the oppressed manifest. And guess what? IT IS ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE, AND IT IS COMING TO AMERICA.

As one rioter put it: "We see on the news all the time everyone is getting everything for free, we figure, why can't we?"

Ill add to that, "we see on the news everybody in high power getting away with crimes every day, so we figured, why not us too?"

Right, because this guy is watching the news, pining for the days the government will get off his back and let free markets and an open society prevail. Or actually since the UK government has "complete disregard for the plight of their underclasses", this young man is actually yearning for more handouts beyond his free healthcare and free education provided by the taxpayers.

It's just never enough, is it.

Clearly, this youth is making a "political statement."

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/09/article-2024001-0D5CB5C100000578-825_642x603.jpg

Oppressed I tell you, oppressed!

[awake]

Bill Clinton started a war to sidetrack the Big Lewinsky scandal. Once you understand that these things can be done for political purposes then understanding the London riots are of little wonder.

Has any one heard of the Murdoch phone tap scandal that was about to implicate a sitting Prime-minister and his police lately? (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/europe/for-british-pm-the-true-test-of-the-hacking-scandal-is-yet-to-come/article2104336/) Nope, mission accomplished.

This is all a well timed cover/distraction for the criminals; that's why there are riots.

[Jack Bauer]

You go England you! God bless you, the Queen and your multi-culturalism.

Show the rest of the world how its done.

I mean clearly, these yutes are oppressed and are just asking for their basic 'uman rights.

Don't keep the yutes don't. Don't be greedy oppressors. Some people in England are still capitalist pigs and they think that what they paid for (like clothes, iphones, xboxes, etc.) belong to them but they should realize that we are here to share the wealth with everyone and its just good for the society as a whole.

So, go get 'em Ingurland. I am with you.

[UWDude]

Or actually since the UK government has "complete disregard for the plight of their underclasses", this young man is actually yearning for more handouts beyond his free healthcare and free education provided by the taxpayers.

Yes, they also have cameras watching their every move. They are owned and powerless. Most probably have no idea why. But you can be blind, and still know you are covered in shit.


Oppressed I tell you, oppressed!

These are not political actors, but this is a political reaction.


You go England you! God bless you, the Queen and your multi-culturalism.

Where are the Turks that are hated so much by English Nationalists in this? They have banded together, created street watches, and vowed none of their businesses will be hurt. Maybe the English could learn a thing or two from their Muslim neighbors.


Sorry but I would like to see the proof where they are attacking police and government buildings. All I see is mugging of innocent people and destruction of private property.

Search and ye shall find. (http://www.google.com)

[silverhandorder]

You made the claim you should be the one proving it.

[Jack Bauer]

Where are the Turks that are hated so much by English Nationalists in this? They have banded together, created street watches, and vowed none of their businesses will be hurt. Maybe the English could learn a thing or two from their Muslim neighbors.

Of course they can. But they are too politically correct, have their heads shoved up their multicultural asses and probably see anybody forming a street watch group as "raycist".

Immigration policy (irrespective of the race, religion and culture of the immigrants) in a nation should be that of assimilation. Not "diversity".

PS: I am an immigrant. 1st gen.

[UWDude]

You made the claim you should be the one proving it.

Here. I'll teach you how to use google:

1. go to www.google.com

2. type "attacking police and government buildings london riots" in the search bar

3. browse

[UWDude]

You are a complete tool. Take some more classes from your Marxist professors at UW, and keep believing that you came up with the inane thoughts that inhabit your empty head.

YEah, BTW, sock puppet, my "marxist" professors at the UW were hardly any kind of radical. the y loved the system as much as any otehr person living well in America does, and they believed in the whole voting/democrat/republican/USA best country whole wide world BS

[UWDude]

Spain and Greece have been having massive political, peaceful, protests for months, every day now. The ONLY time you heard about Greece was when it got a little violent.

[silverhandorder]

Here. I'll teach you how to use google:

1. go to www.google.com

2. type "attacking police and government buildings london riots" in the search bar

3. browse
Why should I do that? I am not the one making un-backed claims.

I want to see pictures and quotes of government and police buildings being attacked. It would also be nice to see comparison of how much government is being attacked vs private property.

I suspect all the comparison will show is that the thugs realized police is inadequate and are attacking peaceful society for some quick loot.

[Eleventh Star]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXFuf5Cjy-A


Anyone reminded of the Korean merchants who banded together during the LA riots? Strong communities trump any kind of policing when riots like these happen.

[LibForestPaul]

And like i pointed out you deal with those corrupt cops on an indivdual bases. There are thousands of Cops in England, what you dont do is demonize them all for the actions of a 100 or 200 etc. The cops who shot this guy are prob not even on the scene anymore. But cops who had nothing to do with the shooting were injured on the first day of riots.

Just because someone wears a uniform does not make them corrupt.

actually it does, if what they are part of is corrupt.

A brownshirt is a brownshirt is a brownshirt. If you do not want to be morally defunct, don't wear a brownshirt.

[moderate libertarian]

This has NOTHING to do with the economy.

This is a race riot.

UK news report on Drudge says the same thing.



These riots were about race. Why ignore the fact?

By Katharine Birbalsingh
August 7th, 2011

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/katharinebirbalsingh/100099830/these-riots-were-about-race-why-ignore-the-fact/

[wannaberocker]

actually it does, if what they are part of is corrupt.

A brownshirt is a brownshirt is a brownshirt. If you do not want to be morally defunct, don't wear a brownshirt.
Thats just crazy. Im glad there are cops around, im glad they even came out once and opened my car door for me when i locked my keys in my car. Now i know its a hard concept for some people to understand, but not everyone becomes a cop is out to get you.

[UWDude]

Thats just crazy. Im glad there are cops around, im glad they even came out once and opened my car door for me when i locked my keys in my car. Now i know its a hard concept for some people to understand, but not everyone becomes a cop is out to get you.

That's probably because you didn't have any weed in your car. I had a friend once have his car break down, walking home with his girl, cop offered him a ride, he said sure... oops, forgot he had a small pipe in his jacket pocket. $425 fine, $2000 rehab/counseling bill.

[wannaberocker]

That's probably because you didn't have any weed in your car. I had a friend once have his car break down, walking home with his girl, cop offered him a ride, he said sure... oops, forgot he had a small pipe in his jacket pocket. $425 fine, $2000 rehab/counseling bill.

Yeah, no im not a pothead.

[affa]

That's what kills me about the whole thing. The guy shot and hit a cop (who survived) and they blew him away. Happens all the time here. But the story gets twisted around like this guy is was prancing down the street singing show tunes and some angry cops decided to dust him, and all of London erupts. Now the Anarchists are jumping in on the fun too once they saw it get started.

I'll do my duty and volunteer to wear the eggs and tomatoes, but I hope the cops, and maybe some community street teams, take to the streets and sort out these rioters. They're wantonly destroying private property, attacking innocent bystanders and destroying the community and society. You can't let this disorder go unchecked or it's right back to the State of Nature.

Screw these rioters destroying property and hurting people for no reason. I don't care if they're poor or minorities or Anarchists living off daddy's credit card while going to some half-baked liberal arts college brooding about Marxism, aggression against people and property is NOT okay no matter what their perceived grievances are. Get some street teams out there and clear them out of the neighborhood.

Here's my issue -- what do you think revolt would look like, especially given how our media works?

You wouldn't hear about political reasons, you'd hear about the idiot on the street stealing a tv.
You wouldn't hear about the non-violent protesters, you'd see endless replays of some building burning.
You wouldn't hear calls to action, you'd hear talking heads and 'people on the street' calling the protesters 'looters' and 'thugs'.

Not to mention, even if every single person involved was non-violent and willful, you'd only need a single agent provocateur to start something up.

And that's not even getting into police response to large groups of people -- what happens when non-violent people start getting beaten and pepper sprayed? You get video of 'protesters' looking crazy. There is a ton of video on youtube which shows 'news coverage' of events next to the same exact event from a civilian camera -- showing how absolutely incorrect the media narrative is.

My point, really, is that when people revolt, we will be told it is looting and pillaging. Every time. No matter the reason. (Unless, of course, we dislike the gov't of some other country, in which case it's okay to call it revolt).

[silverhandorder]

That would be very disorganized revolt and will not go anywhere. For revolt to be successful either majority has to passively support and in that case it will be relatively peaceful or the minority would have to be insurgents and in that case there would be counter information being distributed.

However in today's age it is easy to tell a riot for what it is. People that are affected go on twitter and post videos and pictures and tell their stories. While the rioters obviously do not. So one can see wanton destruction of property by criminals without having media tell it is. While propaganda exists for those informed it is easy to spot the difference between the two.

[affa]

Wrong, you blame the politicians who make the laws... And the media workers who prop them up... AND the police who enforce them... AND the peopel who work for such politicians.... AND the people who vote for the politicians... AND all the rest of the people who do nothing but sit idly by and cluck their tongues then pat themselves on the back for being such rule following little piglets at the teets of their queen.


Your Sir are off your rocker.

While I certainly don't agree with everything UWDude has written in this thread, his statement here is spot on. Why wouldn't you blame everyone who created the problem? You can't just blame the politicians -- they were elected. Therefore, you need to blame the people that voted for them. And if there is an unjust law, then yes, the police are to blame for enforcing it.

People can't hide behind their jobs. We need to be responsible. We need to be proactive.

[UWDude]

Why should I do that? I am not the one making un-backed claims.

I have just happened to read dozens of articles on the subject, like I do on most things. And if you had perhaps read even a few articles, you surely would have come across soem of the events I am referring to.

But fine, here you go:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554
*West Midlands Police said a police station in Holyhead Road in Handsworth, Birmingham, was set alight
*A Nottinghamshire police station was attacked in the St Ann's area and 200 tyres were set alight in the street
*Canning Circus police station in central Nottingham was firebombed by a male gang on Tuesday evening

There are many more direct attacks on police officers and other buildings without looting, but surely you can use Google now. I am not going to list every single attack for you.

[pcosmar]

Riots, and rioting are pointless.
But i can understand to an extent,, even though I disagree with them entirely.
It is a mass psychosis. Mob mentality.
It is a release of built up anger. and even IF it is righteous anger it is mostly misdirected and hence,,, pointless.

If it is truly anger directed at corrupt government then Revolution is the correct outlet, and it should be directed at the government with the intend to remove and replace them.
This is not. And will have not effect beyond destruction and worsening their conditions.
It will however release the anger and frustration for a while making real Revolution impossible.

An exercise in futility.
Except for the rulers. It will increase their grip and control.

[silverhandorder]

There are degrees of culpability. A person egging someone on to punch you is not as bad as the person punching you. there is also a matter of being practical. I tend to agree with him that the police are bad. Yet I am not going to go and be a martyr.

[silverhandorder]

I have just happened to read dozens of articles on the subject, like I do on most things. And if you had perhaps read even a few articles, you surely would have come across soem of the events I am referring to.

But fine, here you go:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554
*West Midlands Police said a police station in Holyhead Road in Handsworth, Birmingham, was set alight
*A Nottinghamshire police station was attacked in the St Ann's area and 200 tyres were set alight in the street
*Canning Circus police station in central Nottingham was firebombed by a male gang on Tuesday evening

There are many more direct attacks on police officers and other buildings without looting, but surely you can use Google now. I am not going to list every single attack for you.

You are being a bit disingenuous the same article mentions roving gangs of 150-200 youth attacking shops. People want a swift and just response to that. I don't see people here crying about a police station.

[GunnyFreedom]

I wholeheartedly oppose violent riots like this, but I do recognize that if governments actually took police brutality seriously, then nightmares like this would be far less likely to occur. Frederick Douglass said, "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." Looks like the Britons are tired of quietly submitting.

[GunnyFreedom]

That would be very disorganized revolt and will not go anywhere. For revolt to be successful either majority has to passively support and in that case it will be relatively peaceful or the minority would have to be insurgents and in that case there would be counter information being distributed.

However in today's age it is easy to tell a riot for what it is. People that are affected go on twitter and post videos and pictures and tell their stories. While the rioters obviously do not. So one can see wanton destruction of property by criminals without having media tell it is. While propaganda exists for those informed it is easy to spot the difference between the two.

To be fair, a majority did not even passively support the American Revolution. You had about 3% who actively supported the Revolution, right around 30% who passively supported it, 35% who frankly didn't care either way, 30% who passively opposed it, and 2% who actively opposed it.

Point being, only 5% of the colonists cared enough to actually do anything, and the plurality didn't care either way. There was no majority,really, in any camp.

[UWDude]

Yeah, no im not a pothead.

Goody for you. I also see you are indeed clucking your tongue and telling yourself what a good person you are.

[KingRobbStark]

One of these days the british will riot for freedom. One of these days...but until then those hobos on the street begging for hand outs can go fuck off.

[UWDude]

You are being a bit disingenuous the same article mentions roving gangs of 150-200 youth attacking shops. People want a swift and just response to that. I don't see people here crying about a police station.

No I am not being disingenuous. read more articles if you want more examples. I am done playing childish games with you,.

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

Here's my issue -- what do you think revolt would look like, especially given how our media works?

You wouldn't hear about political reasons, you'd hear about the idiot on the street stealing a tv.
You wouldn't hear about the non-violent protesters, you'd see endless replays of some building burning.
You wouldn't hear calls to action, you'd hear talking heads and 'people on the street' calling the protesters 'looters' and 'thugs'.

Not to mention, even if every single person involved was non-violent and willful, you'd only need a single agent provocateur to start something up.

And that's not even getting into police response to large groups of people -- what happens when non-violent people start getting beaten and pepper sprayed? You get video of 'protesters' looking crazy. There is a ton of video on youtube which shows 'news coverage' of events next to the same exact event from a civilian camera -- showing how absolutely incorrect the media narrative is.

My point, really, is that when people revolt, we will be told it is looting and pillaging. Every time. No matter the reason. (Unless, of course, we dislike the gov't of some other country, in which case it's okay to call it revolt).

TPTB are attempting to play the race card.

The media and its' owners are definitely trying to stir the pot to keep attention off them and have the masses beg for more tyranny.

[silverhandorder]

To be fair, a majority did not even passively support the American Revolution. You had about 3% who actively supported the Revolution, right around 30% who passively supported it, 35% who frankly didn't care either way, 30% who passively opposed it, and 2% who actively opposed it.

Point being, only 5% of the colonists cared enough to actually do anything, and the plurality didn't care either way. There was no majority,really, in any camp.

Well I did say minority would have to be insurgents and from what I read of Revolutionary War it was that.

[foofighter20x]

http://i.imgur.com/p05mG.gif

[Nate-ForLiberty]

http://i.imgur.com/p05mG.gif

the phantom moderator.

[affa]

That would be very disorganized revolt and will not go anywhere. For revolt to be successful either majority has to passively support and in that case it will be relatively peaceful or the minority would have to be insurgents and in that case there would be counter information being distributed.

However in today's age it is easy to tell a riot for what it is. People that are affected go on twitter and post videos and pictures and tell their stories. While the rioters obviously do not. So one can see wanton destruction of property by criminals without having media tell it is. While propaganda exists for those informed it is easy to spot the difference between the two.

I think you underestimate the ability of the media to spin events. What twitters and videos are you following? Those of the people actually out in the streets? Or those of the people decrying them?

I am not saying these riots are necessarily valid. I am, however, saying any general uprising will be dismissed as looting, pillaging, and thuggery. It's easy. And there will always be those who don't want an uprising -- who will be tweeting and dismissing those involved.

Heck, just look at the way they pinned the downgrade on the 'tea party'. It's so easy for them. And sure, the 'informed' might know the difference, but everyone considers themselves informed, even if it be by FOX news.

[affa]

To be fair, a majority did not even passively support the American Revolution. You had about 3% who actively supported the Revolution, right around 30% who passively supported it, 35% who frankly didn't care either way, 30% who passively opposed it, and 2% who actively opposed it.

Point being, only 5% of the colonists cared enough to actually do anything, and the plurality didn't care either way. There was no majority,really, in any camp.

I don't know that your numbers are correct, but they sound about right. And that's exactly the point I'm making. Add in an omni-present media owned by the corporations and in bed with the gov't... and we wouldn't have had the revolution. They'd have been destroyed by the media before they got going, painted as thugs or whatever.

As long as the media is not on our side, we will have a very, very difficult time trying to change things in this world.

[DamianTV]

The Media will never endorse a Revolution against them, peacefull or otherwise.

Now, as far as the Riots, I dont think a lot of those people in the Riots are protesting the Cop Killing or whatever sparked the hostility, the majority is using it as an excuse to either take from the Have's, or to Damage the Property of the Have's.

(Have's meaning Have and Have Not's)

The few that may actually care about the consequences of the Sparking Event will have their voices drowned out by the screams of the looters. To me, this doesnt stand as a productive riot, this stands as Mass Looting, and violence on the streets is used as an excuse to commit the Looting.

[foofighter20x]

For anyone over in the UK, remember the handy jingle!

0118 999 881 999 119 725 ... 3

[BucksforPaul]

I love it how the Neo-NAZIS are starting to hide behind the newly found meme of "multiculturalism" all the while ignoring the greatest success of this exact concept known as the United States of America. Frankly, I am surprised that this crap is tolerated here on these forums.

Hey everybody lets us all try the NAZI experiment of a superior race and kill off everyone who does not look like us because we are the chosen ones. /sarcasm

[blabam]

"multiculturalism" failing can easily be replaced with the failing of socialism.

[Jack Bauer]

I love it how the Neo-NAZIS are starting to hide behind the newly found meme of "multiculturalism" all the while ignoring the greatest success of this exact concept known as the United States of America. Frankly, I am surprised that this crap is tolerated here on these forums.

Hey everybody lets us all try the NAZI experiment of a superior race and kill off everyone who does not look like us because we are the chosen ones. /sarcasm

"Multi-culturalism" works when the government policy is assimilation and not political correctness/diversity and that too only in the absence of a welfare state.

In Britain, the case obviously isn't so.

Hire someone to knock that neo-nazi paranoia chip off your shoulder.

[limequat]

I love it how the Neo-NAZIS are starting to hide behind the newly found meme of "multiculturalism" all the while ignoring the greatest success of this exact concept known as the United States of America. Frankly, I am surprised that this crap is tolerated here on these forums.

Hey everybody lets us all try the NAZI experiment of a superior race and kill off everyone who does not look like us because we are the chosen ones. /sarcasm

Europe is learning why America is one of the most violent 1st world nations.

[denison]

For anyone over in the UK, remember the handy jingle!

0118 999 881 999 119 725 ... 3

OMG, an IT crowd reference on RP forum. It really is a small world.

[silverhandorder]

I think you underestimate the ability of the media to spin events. What twitters and videos are you following? Those of the people actually out in the streets? Or those of the people decrying them?

I am not saying these riots are necessarily valid. I am, however, saying any general uprising will be dismissed as looting, pillaging, and thuggery. It's easy. And there will always be those who don't want an uprising -- who will be tweeting and dismissing those involved.

Heck, just look at the way they pinned the downgrade on the 'tea party'. It's so easy for them. And sure, the 'informed' might know the difference, but everyone considers themselves informed, even if it be by FOX news.

In a revolution there will absolutely be counter videos and pictures. This is one the very telling signs that this is a riot. Also I focus on the informed here because you are addressing people on a political forum. If you said the same thing in class when some liberal yuppie was running her mouth off about the great media I would not say anything.

[UWDude]

The "this is the result of multicultralism" argument is just absurd racism. For one, whites and blacks are looting together, and it is not really immigrant communities like the Paris riots a few years ago. For two, the mostly muslim communities like the Turk communities are not rioting at all.

I see a lot of racists claiming this is the result of multiculturalism, but i Have yet to see any logical explanation as to how multiculturalism is the cause.

Furthermore, there is nothing difficult about retaining ones culture and still upholding american values. The only detriment could be if people refused ot learn English, but usually, 2nd generation Americans are native English speakers.

[Mini-Me]

I think you underestimate the ability of the media to spin events. What twitters and videos are you following? Those of the people actually out in the streets? Or those of the people decrying them?

I am not saying these riots are necessarily valid. I am, however, saying any general uprising will be dismissed as looting, pillaging, and thuggery. It's easy. And there will always be those who don't want an uprising -- who will be tweeting and dismissing those involved.

Heck, just look at the way they pinned the downgrade on the 'tea party'. It's so easy for them. And sure, the 'informed' might know the difference, but everyone considers themselves informed, even if it be by FOX news.


In a revolution there will absolutely be counter videos and pictures. This is one the very telling signs that this is a riot. Also I focus on the informed here because you are addressing people on a political forum. If you said the same thing in class when some liberal yuppie was running her mouth off about the great media I would not say anything.

You both make great points. Although this particular riot seems to be a genuine case of "mindless beatdowns and looting by thugs," it's true that any and every uprising will be portrayed as such by the media to the greatest extent possible, and agent provocateurs will try to make the crowd as mindless as possible. Of course, that just makes it more important to discourage and guard against that kind of behavior as much as possible.

Real revolt, and making a real statement, requires a lot more courage, but it makes a much more lasting and much more productive impression. If people marched on Downing Street, bodily carried all of the politicians out of office, and threw them in the Thames to humiliate them...that would make an impression. It wouldn't be easy for the media to ignore either. ;)

It would be suicide for many though, and the only way to do it without an all-out civil war would be to go in half-Gandhi-style and let the cops do all the shooting, while waves of people continue to move forward and past them. It would also be extremely difficult to muster up enough courage to simply walk up like a self-aware lamb to the slaughter, and it would be even more difficult to convince a crowd of countless thousands to follow.

[affa]

In a revolution there will absolutely be counter videos and pictures. This is one the very telling signs that this is a riot. Also I focus on the informed here because you are addressing people on a political forum. If you said the same thing in class when some liberal yuppie was running her mouth off about the great media I would not say anything.

There are counter notes -- people discussing the politics of the matter, the police brutality, the class differential. But these voices are being ignored for the louder voices of the mob. But regardless, I am not talking about this particular event. I am talking about future ones.

And my point is, you can not have an significant uprising without looting to some degree, and that will be capitalized on by the media. The majority of the populace will turn on their television and hear 'looters'. I mean, heck, even during Katrina that's all we heard about. The L.A. Riots. And on and on.

Switching topics a bit, as you say, we are the informed. We know what an uprising looks like. But for the uninformed, a riot -- looting and all -- is an uprising. It's a rejection of the status quo, a demand to be noticed. And yes, it isn't pretty. It isn't the civilized uprising we all hope for, but to dismiss all that pent up anger as 'thuggery' misses the point. You couldn't possible get a rich suburb that worked up. If the cops tazed some guy to death, you'd see it in the paper, and people would poo poo about it over tea. But you can get the 'peasants' that worked up. The ones that are angry with the system, the police, the government, the economy, their lot in life... and this is what you get. Blind fury. But it's still an uprising.

And since all uprisings will be presented on the media as a 'bunch of looters', and the talking heads will never quite say why it's happening (or lie, if they do), and since, regardless of what goes down or how it goes down, many civilians will have something to lose (many cling to the status quo), whoever starts an uprising of any type is going to be presented as the enemy. Full force by the media.

[silverhandorder]

Well all I have to say do you think it is our kind of uprising? What do you think will happen if our statist rulers lose control? You will see the collapse of government security systems and we will be scrambling to defend our selves from this "uprising".

In my view it is easy for us to see what is a good uprising and what most people simply call a riot. For people plugged into the internet they could easily see the ratio of people being beaten and mugged vs government institutions being attacked. I can't see how we can take advantage of what I would call a riot. We could try to draw lessons and agitate that this is a failure of the state but we wouldn't be able to herd the rioters into a group that will work with us.

As far as a real uprising goes what will determine it's success would be how well the people participating in it can organize. If they can police them selves from participating in looting and helping others stop looting they have won half the battle. The other one would be countering the propaganda that would be thrown their way.

I am sorry but I don't see the point of us arguing. I could only guess that you are bothered at the thought that if the real uprising happens many informed people would be duped by propaganda.

[anaconda]

Shop looted and youths storm McDonald's and start cooking their own food..LOL..all that rioting makes one hungry!!

I'd go straight for the chicken nuggets.

[UWDude]

Opinion is controlled by mass media. There was a peaceful protest of 750,000 people on Mar 26th, and June 30th in England. Did you even hear about it? why isn't the media covering the ongoing peaceful protests in Spain and Greece, where the police are committing most of the violence? Even the protest in Israel has got little more than passing attention. Peaceful protest is a waste of time, because if the media ignores it, it simply does not exist.

[silverhandorder]

March protests had looting as well. They are actually a catalyst for these riots because that was when the ghettos realized that there was little retribution to looting.

Besides all of these protests are coming from the left and considering all countries you mentioned the left rules it is easy to see how there is little sympathy to be drawn. Conservatives are not going to all of a sudden come out and support the left in those countries and the left in those countries knows it got those kids tied up. It is not like people in Spain and Israel are going to all of a sudden turn around and start voting for the conservatives that want to take their privileges away. Furthermore their demand are absolutely unreal, all the countries in question are broke and they are asking more from them, even if their left overlords wanted to give them their demands they can't physically meet them.

[Vessol]

For all those saying that this is the cause of multi-culturalism. This is the cause of a generation of kids being raised to believe that the State will give them everything in life, and when that turns out to be the farce that it is, the poorest will be the first to riot in the streets. And that tends to be minorities in most countries.

I'm already reading reports of many minority groups in cities forming militias to protect their property from looters.

[Vessol]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_hk-UuoFjU

[UWDude]

March protests had looting as well. They are actually a catalyst for these riots because that was when the ghettos realized that there was little retribution to looting.

Besides all of these protests are coming from the left and considering all countries you mentioned the left rules it is easy to see how there is little sympathy to be drawn. Conservatives are not going to all of a sudden come out and support the left in those countries and the left in those countries knows it got those kids tied up. It is not like people in Spain and Israel are going to all of a sudden turn around and start voting for the conservatives that want to take their privileges away. Furthermore their demand are absolutely unreal, all the countries in question are broke and they are asking more from them, even if their left overlords wanted to give them their demands they can't physically meet them.

The bankers of those countries are not broke, and the war profiteers are not broke, they are reaping record profits.

[affa]

Well all I have to say do you think it is our kind of uprising? What do you think will happen if our statist rulers lose control? You will see the collapse of government security systems and we will be scrambling to defend our selves from this "uprising".

In my view it is easy for us to see what is a good uprising and what most people simply call a riot. For people plugged into the internet they could easily see the ratio of people being beaten and mugged vs government institutions being attacked. I can't see how we can take advantage of what I would call a riot. We could try to draw lessons and agitate that this is a failure of the state but we wouldn't be able to herd the rioters into a group that will work with us.

As far as a real uprising goes what will determine it's success would be how well the people participating in it can organize. If they can police them selves from participating in looting and helping others stop looting they have won half the battle. The other one would be countering the propaganda that would be thrown their way.

I am sorry but I don't see the point of us arguing. I could only guess that you are bothered at the thought that if the real uprising happens many informed people would be duped by propaganda.

We aren't really arguing. We only disagree on one point - you think there is a difference between a riot like this and an uprising, and I think any 'difference' is moot because the 95% of people who get their news from the television will see the same thing. You think twitter and the internet will make a difference, and I think only people who 'care' will actually read these tweets and watch these youtube videos.

I've seen calls for the military to come in and kill these rioters all over the internet, and I think you'd see the same thing in any general uprising.

My point is that we need to be prepared to be scapegoated at all times -- we just got scapegoated for the 'tea party downgrade' (and i don't even consider myself tea party, i support RP and RP only). You think the internet will counter the media -- and I ask -- well, why doesn't it now, then? I mean, yes, it helps. But if you can show a single building burning, or report some injuries, or some property damage (no matter who caused it) it's very easy to sway people who support the status quo -- which is, sadly, almost everyone.

You say 'we can tell the difference between a riot and a uprising'... and i say, good luck with that when the media calls you a looter just because you went to a peaceful protest and the cops started pepper spraying people. I am not saying that's the only thing happening in this particular case -- my comments have never been strictly about these events, but the greater picture. Those against the status quo will always be painted as trouble makers. Every time. And to think because your (or my) cause is so glorious that we'll be saved by the internet is a bit optimistic. Look at how easy it was for the police to tell people the poor dead guy was in a 'shootout' that never was.

[BucksforPaul]

"Multi-culturalism" works when the government policy is assimilation and not political correctness/diversity and that too only in the absence of a welfare state.

In Britain, the case obviously isn't so.

Hire someone to knock that neo-nazi paranoia chip off your shoulder.

If it squawks like a Nazi then it must be a Nazi or should I use political correctness in trying to appease to these stains on humanity? If it looks like a Nazi then it must be a Nazi or should I not call them out on their hollow ideology and current talking point? If it smells like a Nazi then it must be a Nazi or should I ignore the opposite of "multiculturalism." The example of the United States is the biggest bitch slap in these scums faces and its time for these genocidal maniacs to come up with new propaganda. Care to explain to me the opposite of multiculturalism? As I pointed out earlier that horrible experiment was tried by the Nazis and the results are there for anyone capable of seeing. In fact, these current hatemongers are Nazis on steroids and thus I call them Neo-Nazis and it is a shame, imo, to not do so. Once upon a time in the United States, it was popular to call a spade a spade.

You should hire someone else to think for you because the current Nazis can't even provide you with valid talking points!

[ExPatPaki]

Three Martyrs (http://www.amconmag.com/blog/2011/08/11/three-martyrs/)


Please join with me in commemorating a group of three British Muslim martyrs. Seriously.

Haroon Jahan, Abdul Nasir, and Shazad Ali died Tuesday night in Birmingham’s impoverished Winson Green area. After two days of rioting, looting, and casual arson, mainly by black gangs, the local community despaired of seeking help from a police force that was not making the slightest effort to intervene to defend them. As the small businessmen and shopkeepers of the area, the local South Asian community had most to lose. Organizing from the local mosque, they dispatched groups of young volunteers to patrol the area. A speeding car hit a group of these community defenders, killing three. (The driver is charged with murder). The victims were classic hard-working immigrants, one a mechanic, another ran a car wash. In the words of one observer, “They lost their lives for other people, doing the job of the police. They weren’t standing outside a mosque, a temple, a synagogue or a church – they were standing outside shops where everybody goes. They were protecting the community as a whole.”


The most moving aspect of the recent British crisis has been the pictures of ordinary citizens who despair of the absent police and resort to their own means to defend their community. Overwhelmingly, the most active and effective groups have been Middle Eastern and Asian immigrants, who actually know from bitter experience how tenuous the state actually is, and who understand that they must rely on community and kin. Turks, Kurds and Sikhs have formed community defense groups that sometimes look more like militias than neighborhood watch groups, and the gangs, wisely, have learned to avoid those areas. If commercial life survives in the attacked areas, it will be entirely due to those defenders, whose contributions will be forgotten or maligned in the mendacious official reports that will appear in the coming months. All honor to those groups.

And that is why I say that Haroon Jahan and his friends were not just heroes but martyrs. They died for the cause of social order, and the safeguarding of life and property, the most basic human rights. May they rest in peace.

[affa]

i completely agree that it's a tragedy that those 3 men died.

however, I have seen no reports on who was driving the speeding car, nor if the car intentionally hit them.

[silverhandorder]

@affa

I believe you are right that we need to be careful of being scapegoated.

My only point is for us not to join the riots or defend them when they are just riots.


The bankers of those countries are not broke, and the war profiteers are not broke, they are reaping record profits.

No they are not because they are owned by the state in those countries anyways.

[showpan]

Angry working parents among rioters (http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1038286--angry-working-parents-among-rioters#.TkVkFrXnKW0.facebook)

Published On Fri Aug 12 2011

LONDON—Residents of a London housing estate laughed at a televised plea by police for parents to call their children and help rein in the youths who looted and burnt swathes of the city.

Not only were some of the parents at the riots themselves, but many of those taking part were not the hooded, teenage delinquents on which many have pinned the blame for the worst street riots Britain has seen for decades.

“Some of the parents were there. For some parents it was no big surprise their kids were there. They’ve gone through this all their lives,” said an Afro-Caribbean man of 22 who gave his name as “L,” voicing the frustration and anger felt by youth and parents over yawning inequalities in wealth and opportunity.

“I was on the train today in my work clothes and shoes. All different types took part in the riot. The man next to me was saying everyone who rioted should be gassed. He would never have guessed that I was there, that I took part,” he said.

L was seated at the entrance to a housing estate in Hackney, a London borough that suffered some of the worst destruction and violence in three days of riots that hit the capital after the fatal shooting of an Afro-Caribbean man by police.

Other young men were sitting with him, on a wall outside the drab flats typical of the subsidized housing that is home to many of Britain’s poor.

“They were not your typical hoodlums out there. There were working people, angry people. They’ve raised rates, cut child benefit. Everyone just used it as a chance to vent,” L said, referring to government austerity measures the poor say have hit them hardest.

Witness accounts and media footage reinforce his view — Afro-Caribbeans, Asians, whites and others of various ages were involved in riots that spread across London and further afield to the cities of Liverpool, Manchester, Bristol and Birmingham.

Politicians and police have described the riots as pure criminality, with youths emptying out shops in what looked like targeted raids. Some social commentators, however, point to public service cuts and high unemployment that have scarred poor, disadvantaged communities the most.

But no everyone fit the “hoodie’ stereotype.

A 43-year-old organic chef and an opera house steward are said to have been among those making their first appearance in court on Thursday. The pair pleaded not guilty to charges of looting and were remanded in custody.

A postman, a primary school mentor, lifeguard, charity worker and a father of a newborn baby were among other defendants appearing alongside schoolchildren and college students to answer charges ranging from theft to violent disorder.

As well, the 19-year-old daughter of a millionaire appeared in court charged with stealing £5,000-worth of electronic goods she allegedly looted in southeast London. She pleaded not guilty to five counts of burglary and was granted bail.

The unrest has stirred a debate about law and order and the social divide in modern Britain with many trying to pinpoint just who participated in the rioting and looting and fighting with police in London and other cities.

Britain’s mainstream media have seized on the stereotype of hooded, unemployed, violent youth as the culprits.

Among a large number of detained rioters that kept one London court busy throughout the night were a graphic designer, a graduate student and someone about to join the army.

On a typical day at the Hackney estate the young men, who apart from L were unemployed, congregate and while away the time, being careful to avoid the police, whom many refer to as the “Feds,” a term derived from U.S. federal law enforcers.

“If you’re not working, you find out what your friends are doing. We’re just socializing, generally. Keeping out of the radar of the police looking to get in our business,” said Ariom, 23, wearing baggy jeans and sporting corn-rows in his hair.

A police car drove by, and all heads turned towards it.

“These black boys are just sitting around, the Feds drive through, some harassment, they have a little weed on them. I used to work with youth offenders, and it hurt me to see the police’s approach,” said Michelle, 40, who had stopped to chat.

“My son is 12 years old, and he already knows that police do not work for black people.”

Hatred of the police is a recurring theme in Hackney.

L, back from work in a smart white shirt, smart shoes, black tie and black trousers, said he would still get stopped by police, despite his efforts to blend into wider society.

He declined to describe his job. All of those interviewed in Hackney were wary of giving away details that could allow them to be identified by the police.

“This supposed law and order is dishonest. I get stopped and searched. You won’t. They should just say, ‘I’m stopping you because you’re black,’ ” L said, standing and raising his voice.

“If you ask the youths, they’re going to say they have the same dreams as the middle class. The same chances, a decent job, a high standard of living. I know guys that are selling drugs and they want to start their own legitimate business.”

Michelle said she had quit her job with the police youth offenders unit because her children and others saw her as an informer.

She sympathized with the rioters and looters.

“Before, it was if a black man is killed, it’s OK, ‘black on black crime’. Now, when it’s property damaged or stolen, it’s uproar. What other platform have the youths got?” she said.

At a nearby housing estate, heavily tattooed Jackie, 39, resented what she saw as the media’s portrayal of the riots as mindless youth violence.

“This was not kids. This was youths and adults coming together against the crap that’s been going on since the coalition,” she said, referring to Britain’s conservative-led government, which has made deep austerity cuts since coming into power last year to tackle a big budget deficit.

“They’re saying it’s all young hoodies. Look at me, now I’m a hoodie,” she said, putting her hood up, looking like the lithe teenage rioters shown in television footage.

“I was out in the riots. My 16-year-old daughter was calling me asking where I was,” she said, chuckling.

She stood with a group of Afro-Caribbean men and women on a street corner, muttering and eyeballing the police who stood some metres away across the road. Shattered glass from the riots still littered the road in places.

She and others had little sympathy for many of the store owners whose premises had been looted and burned, identifying most as big chain stores that offer little to their community.

Many of the more upmarket stores cater for growing numbers of middle-class professionals and white hipsters who have moved in recent years into Hackney’s handsome townhouses, of which many sit metres away from poor housing estates.

“The looting was done, not just because they can’t afford the stuff, it was done to show they just don’t give a s---. . . . We’re here and not going away,” Michelle said.

[wannaberocker]

Intresting article. So the poor riot because they claim there a large income gap between rich and poor (hmm i thought euro socialism was suppose to solve that). Whats the next step for England? Communism?

[ExPatPaki]

Muslims Smash Right-Wing Stereotypes by Kelley B. Vlahos
(http://original.antiwar.com/vlahos/2011/08/16/muslims-smash-right-wing-stereotypes/)

Of the many revelations and questions still unresolved following the recent riots in Britain, a novel yet not altogether surprising thread has emerged but has hardly been noticed by the mainstream media:

These riots were not dominated, driven nor taken advantage of by angry, ghettoized, Shariah-demanding Islamists.

In fact, stories in contrast to that meme began emerging as it became more obvious that British Muslims were busy protecting not only their own businesses and places of worship, but their non-Muslim neighbors’ properties, too.

Lambert, a Brit, said he wasn’t surprised that the Muslim community acted “swiftly to protect shops, businesses and communities against looters.” He said he first saw their “street skills” put to the test in 2005 “when volunteers from the Muslim Association of Britain and Muslim Welfare House ousted violent supporters of Abu Hamza from the Finsbury Park Mosque.”

More recently, Muslim bravery has been seen in Brixton when extremists spouting the latest manifestation of Al Muhajroun hatred were sent packing out of town. In all these instances, and so many more, the brave Muslims involved have received no praise for their outstanding bravery and good citizenship, and instead faced a never ending barrage of denigration….

It’s probably safe to say that while the Muslim community may have advanced, the general perceptions of it by the rest of America has not gone beyond middle school. A Pew Poll released last August found Americans’ favorable view of Islam had actually declined, from 41 percent in 2005 to 30 percent in 2010.

[wannaberocker]

When you have Mob rule you absolutly can expect "Some" people to stand tall and protect their property. People can say whatever they want about Muslims, But one thing you cant say is that they are scared to fight for themselves. When their property is threatened they will fight and they will fight hard to protect their interest. So i cant say im surprised to hear that muslims tried to fight against the mob violance.

What do they want a parade in there honor now?

[ExPatPaki]

What do they want a parade in there honor now?

Who said they wanted a parade? Do you have any evidence to support this collectivist theory of yours?

[wannaberocker]

Who said they wanted a parade? Do you have any evidence to support this collectivist theory of yours?

i was simply stating this in responce to the line in the article "the brave Muslims involved have received no praise for their outstanding bravery". My reply in a way is to mock the writer of the article who seems to believe that muslims need to be singled out for praise.

and no i wont kill myself as you so kindly told me to do.

[affa]

When you have Mob rule you absolutly can expect "Some" people to stand tall and protect their property. People can say whatever they want about Muslims, But one thing you cant say is that they are scared to fight for themselves. When their property is threatened they will fight and they will fight hard to protect their interest. So i cant say im surprised to hear that muslims tried to fight against the mob violance.

What do they want a parade in there honor now?

such a sad, sad post.

EDITED TO ADD: if your issue is with the author of an article for a line they wrote, then why transfer the ridicule to an entire people rather than an individual author? People are individuals.

[ExPatPaki]

i was simply stating this in responce to the line in the article "the brave Muslims involved have received no praise for their outstanding bravery".

The writer was quoting another author, Robert Lambert who was talking about another incident, not the riots.

Next time, make sure you mention the entire quote:


In all these instances, and so many more, the brave Muslims involved have received no praise for their outstanding bravery and good citizenship,and instead faced a never ending barrage of denigration

Now how do you know that the original writer of the article seems to believe that Muslims need to be singled out for praise? Did you ask the author this question or did you assume this without any evidence?

The author is stating that instead of receiving praise, (btw praise does not automatically = parade) they received denigration.

The author is stating what happened instead of what probably you would expect to happen. Glad I cleared that up for you.

Your original post:



What do they want a parade in there honor now?

They refers to Muslims obviously.

So how do you know that Muslims want a parade? Please answer the question this time.

[wannaberocker]

The writer was quoting another author, Robert Lambert who was talking about another incident, not the riots.

Next time, make sure you mention the entire quote:



Now how do you know that the original writer of the article seems to believe that Muslims need to be singled out for praise? Did you ask the author this question or did you assume this without any evidence?

The author is stating that instead of receiving praise, (btw praise does not automatically = parade) they received denigration.

The author is stating what happened instead of what probably you would expect to happen. Glad I cleared that up for you.

Your original post:



They refers to Muslims obviously.

So how do you know that Muslims want a parade? Please answer the question this time.

IF you read my post i actually asked the question "What do they want a parade in there honor now? " Im assuming your a muslim, so you would prob be in a better position to answer my question. So ill ask again "do muslims want a parade for protecting there self interest?".

The same way you cannot criticize all muslims for wrong, you cannot put up all muslims for praise either. Were there muslims taking part in the riots? Absolutly there were muslim youth that were taking part in the riots. But were there muslims out trying to protect there property? Absolutly there were.

Here is the bottom line. You posted this article because you want collectivist praise for muslims. However, when it comes to critique you get your panties in a bunch. That does speak volumes about the kinda mind you have, dosnt it.

[ExPatPaki]

So ill ask again "do muslims want a parade for protecting there self interest?".

I don't speak for all Muslims, so please don't ask such retarded questions.



Here is the bottom line. You posted this article because you want collectivist praise for muslims. However, when it comes to critique you get your panties in a bunch. That does speak volumes about the kinda mind you have, dosnt it.

No, I don't want any collectivist praise for Muslims. I post articles so people may learn information.

I don't want Muslims denigrated in the media either, especially when they are doing good things. This is what the author mentioned. He said Muslims did a good thing, and instead of receiving any praise, they received denigration. Is the author not allowed to say that in your small little mind?

Like I said before, that quote was not referring to the riots at all.

Now you say there was a critique. I have yet to read any critique.

[wannaberocker]

such a sad, sad post.

EDITED TO ADD: if your issue is with the author of an article for a line they wrote, then why transfer the ridicule to an entire people rather than an individual author? People are individuals.

So your also someone who feels that praise should be of an entire people. But critique should be of individuals?

The fact is that there were some muslims taking part in the riots. But there were also muslims who stood tall to protect there property.

Now the article generalizes muslims when it comes to praise and everyone seems to be ok with it. However, when the same standard is applied to critique, its "Sad ". Yeah, i see how things work here.

[wannaberocker]

I don't speak for all Muslims, so please don't ask such retarded questions.


No, I don't want any collectivist praise for Muslims. I don't want Muslims denigrated in the media either, especially when they are doing good things.

Now you say there was a critique. I have yet to read any critique.

then why even post the article? As far as iv read the thread there has not been many people being critical of muslims. So while you claim you dont want Muslims being singled out, you go ahead and post an article that singles out muslims for Praise. Again, this double speak is what is "retarded". Your actions do not match your philosophical claims.

[ExPatPaki]

The fact is that there were some muslims taking part in the riots. But there were also muslims who stood tall to protect there property
But the quote that has your granny panties in a twist is not referring to the riots at all.

Now the article generalizes muslims when it comes to praise and everyone seems to be ok with it. However, when the same standard is applied to critique, its "Sad ". Yeah, i see how things work here.
Where does the article generalize Muslims? Please provide quotes.

[puppetmaster]

are they going on still? have not heard much

[ExPatPaki]

So while you claim you dont want Muslims being singled out, you go ahead and post an article that singles out muslims for Praise. Again, this double speak is what is "retarded".

The article does not "praise" Muslims. It reports on what is happening. If you don't see that, then you need to check yourself into a mental hospital.

Here are the questions you have yet to answer, but for some reason refuse to do so, because you're a troll and because you really have no argument at all:

How do you know that Muslims want a parade? Answer the how part of the question, if you are able to do so.

The author said Muslims did a good thing, and instead of receiving any praise, they received denigration. Is the author not allowed to say that in your small little mind?

The author also does NOT say its all Muslims, but ONLY the Muslims involved in that scenario. So why are you lying about what the author is writing now? Is that the only way you can argue about this is to lie?

Your complete failure of you and your small little brain to answer these questions speaks volumes about you and your lack of intelligence.

[DamianTV]

There is a lot of hatred for things that people dont have any control over. Being born to an Arabic Family (Arabic does not mean Muslim), or to an Eskimo Family, or a mix of German and Latvian. People cant control the color of their skin, or who their parents are. Im not going to get into the Religious aspects of it. Worship whatever God or Bible or Kuran or Whatever you want, it is not my business.

There are things that piss a lot of people off that those people DO have control over. People have a choice to become Cops or not. People have a choice to become Abusive Cops or not. People have a choice to be Abusive, regardless if they are Cops or not. And that is going to end up with those that acquire or are born into Money can CHOOSE to be Abusive to other people or not.

The Riots in London are motivated by GREED by BOTH Sides. The Have Nots are sick of being taken advantage of by those that Have. And the Have's will take advantage of every opportunity to profit even more from the Have Nots. But the Have Not's tried to use it as an excuse to take away from those that they believe Have. The difference between the Have's and Have Not's does not need to be very big for that tension to be there. One group just needs to be in possession of something that another group does not. A store or a business, maybe just a nice pair of shoes. But either way, this is the Effect of the Desire for Money.

We are all fighting over table scraps like a bread crumb is a three course meal. We need to understand the real source of the problem is that both the Haves and the Have Nots as well as 99% of us here are all of us turning into Have Nots.

Many are pissed because they know they have been screwed, but dont understand the Magic Trick that is Money Manipulation, and that frustration is going to build and build until it reaches a tipping point. Hell, the incindent that set off the Riots in the first place was more Police Brutality (if I have my story right, I might not) which had nothing to do with Money or Greed, but it sure as hell found a way to work itself into the Violence.

[UWDude]

LoL
Watch this video at 2:08 and on.

skip to 2:08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkIlMecRW0s

The freedom fightin' rebels of Libya use the same tactics as the freedom fightin' rebels of London. They loot and pillage!

I'm sorry, how can I feel sorry for the Londoners when I see their country is actively encouraging the same shit in Libya?

[DamianTV]

It will probably only get worse. Question is, which non Middle East Nation will experience a full on revolt by the people? Im almost willing to bet money on either the UK or the US, starting in California.