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slantedview
11-01-2007, 07:33 PM
The site of the Ron Paul rally scheduled for Saturday, November 10 has had to be moved from Independence Mall to the Valley Forge Convention Center.

Numerous requirements have forced us to make the move; including an $80,000 to $140,000 price tag. This information was slow in coming, but it has arrived from the city, the unions, and the audio/visual rental companies of Philadelphia. In contrast, all previous rallies we’ve held, regardless of city, have cost between $5,000 and $9,000.

The Valley Forge Convention Center is located 30 minutes from the Philadelphia International Airport and is easily accessible from the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

The rally will begin at 12 noon in the Philadelphia Room of the Valley Forge Convention Center. The convention center is located at 1160 1st Avenue, King of Prussia, Pennsylvania 19406. For directions call (610) 337-4000 or visit www.vfconventioncenter.com.

Join us in historic Valley Forge on November 10!


http://ronpaul2008.typepad.com/ron_paul_2008/2007/11/philadelphia-ra.html

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

slantedview
11-01-2007, 07:35 PM
So we were right. It was cost.

Not acceptable.

KewlRonduderules
11-01-2007, 07:36 PM
There were other factors too. How come they did not mention them?

Primbs
11-01-2007, 07:37 PM
What are the other factors?

slantedview
11-01-2007, 07:38 PM
http://www.vfconventioncenter.com/capacity_charts.htm

This, to me, is a travesty. It reflects the small thinking of the campaign. This was to be a HUGE rally, not something supporting a mere few thousand people and held 30 minutes away from the city, where the people and media would be.

walt
11-01-2007, 07:39 PM
BOOOOOOOOOO

They need to move the time back and run shuttle buses.

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 07:39 PM
Quick facts I have ascertained about the location:

It is a privately owned facility.
There is no such "Philadelphia" room. They must mean the Pennsylvania room-capacity 2200.
The site is specific about not using union labor

slantedview
11-01-2007, 07:41 PM
I'm going to use my deductive skills and guess that the whole indoor/outdoor thing was a contributing factor, which would be a lousy excuse. Several thousand people standing outdoors in bad weather, rain or snow even, would have been a strong image to the media.

Spirit of '76
11-01-2007, 07:41 PM
This sucks.

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 07:43 PM
$140,000 is a lot of money. From what I was told it could end up being more than that too. Like if the grass was damaged, etc.

We definitely need to get confirmation about what they plan to do about all the people showing up at the mall. I think they plan to transport them, but they need to make that clear.

American
11-01-2007, 07:43 PM
So we were right. It was cost.

Not acceptable.

you aint going anyways.

I wish I could go, sounds like it should be fun. How far away is this from the planned area?

Spirit of '76
11-01-2007, 07:43 PM
What are they going to do about the hundreds or thousands of people who don't get the word and show up at Independence Mall expecting to see Ron Paul?

Worse, what are they going to do about the media and camera crews there to film those people's reactions?

slantedview
11-01-2007, 07:44 PM
$140,000 is a lot of money. From what I was told it could end up being more than that too. Like if the grass was damaged, etc.
I'm sure that was more of a high end cost. If countless other groups can hold rallies at Independance mall, and "get it done" out of pocket, so could Ron Paul.

walt
11-01-2007, 07:46 PM
$140,000 is a lot of money. From what I was told it could end up being more than that too. Like if the grass was damaged, etc.

We definitely need to get confirmation about what they plan to do about all the people showing up at the mall. I think they plan to transport them, but they need to make that clear.


you have to move the time of the event back to move the people to the new location. there is no other alternative.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 07:46 PM
$140,000 is a lot of money. From what I was told it could end up being more than that too. Like if the grass was damaged, etc.

We definitely need to get confirmation about what they plan to do about all the people showing up at the mall. I think they plan to transport them, but they need to make that clear.

No, the barebones for a really nice setup was like 50k

Sematary
11-01-2007, 07:46 PM
STFU, you aint going anyways.

I wish I could go, sounds like it should be fun. How far away is this from the planned area?

20-25 miles.

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 07:46 PM
What are they going to do about the hundreds or thousands of people who don't get the word and show up at Independence Mall expecting to see Ron Paul?

Worse, what are they going to do about the media and camera crews there to film those people's reactions?

I think this is all being handled, Spirit. I wish they would have spoken to this in the announcement.

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 07:47 PM
Here in Chicago the campaign asked us for suggestions on locations for our rally. We proposed a number of locations, most outdoor but a few indoor. They went with an indoor one I think no one had suggested, although it was centrally located-a Hyatt Hotel. They seem to like these indoor convention rooms.

I'd be more impressed if it were outdoors at Valley Forge itself rather than indoors at a private convention center. Three hours for an indoor rally? I think the energy will be hard to maintain in that environment. Yes it may be a bit cold but even 5 degree weather didn't stop Obama from announcing his candidacy at a historically significant location in Springfield. Dr. Paul wouldn't need to give a long speech if that is a concern. Take the historical element out of the location and you lose a lot of the message I hoped we would convey with this rally.

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 07:48 PM
No, the barebones for a really nice setup was like 50k

Bob, my understanding is that you didn't have all the information on the costs. They didn't have them either, until recently. They took forever to come in. Do you know that we were going to be massively charged if the grass was damaged?

walt
11-01-2007, 07:48 PM
I think this is all being handled, Spirit. I wish they would have spoken to this in the announcement.


THE HQ IS CLUELESS LIBERTY EAGLE - DON'T YOU GET IT YET?

This is step one, missing ballots in states is the next mess up on the horizion.

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 07:48 PM
THE HQ IS CLUELESS LIBERTY EAGLE - DON'T YOU GET IT YET?

This is step one, missing ballots in states is the next mess up on the horizion.

Go away troll-bait.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 07:49 PM
Mind your own shit, or maybe I'll just remember this comment and return the favor the day of the rally when a shitload of supporters show up at independance mall. I donated for advertising, which now was probably wasted, and worse, misleading to those who received the ads!

How can we update the kids at the colleges? A big ad in the school newspapers perhaps?

KewlRonduderules
11-01-2007, 07:49 PM
I think this is all being handled, Spirit. I wish they would have spoken to this in the announcement.


Yeah, it would make sense if they had some sort of shuttle service

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 07:50 PM
Yeah, it would make sense if they had some sort of shuttle service

It's my understanding that this is the plan.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 07:51 PM
Bob, my understanding is that you didn't have all the information on the costs. They didn't have them either, until recently. They took forever to come in. Do you know that we were going to be massively charged if the grass was damaged?

That's what the insurance is for so no, we wouldn't have been "massively charged".
And yes, I am fully aware of the costs and the guy who was setting it up said 50k, not 80-140k
There was a requirement for a one million dollar insurance policy for the event which would have covered damages.
I can guarantee you, I knew virtually everything that was going on. The only people who were more intimate were Tom and possibly some Philly people and we all stayed in touch.

slantedview
11-01-2007, 07:51 PM
How can we update the kids at the colleges? A big ad in the school newspapers perhaps?
I think no matter what's there's going to have to be someone at Independance Mall on that day, directing people to go to valley forge... to which their response will likely be laughter or anger.

KewlRonduderules
11-01-2007, 07:51 PM
THE HQ IS CLUELESS LIBERTY EAGLE - DON'T YOU GET IT YET?

This is step one, missing ballots in states is the next mess up on the horizion.


I think I have been pretty polite with you but now, you are really starting to get bothersome.

You are sounding like a troll.

We don't need that here.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 07:51 PM
It's my understanding that this is the plan.

Where are you getting this understanding?

quickmike
11-01-2007, 07:51 PM
140 THOUSAND DOLLARS?????????

For what? A rally for people who already support Ron Paul?

That makes little sense. We need new supporters,and the rally doesnt seem like the best way to go about doing that. I mean, what makes anyone think that the media will pay attention anyway? Where was the media at the Chicago rally of 2500 people?

I think the money would be better spent contributing to the cost of ads, not some party for us supporters who are already voting for him. Oh sure, there would be some people there that arent supporters now that would be after the rally, but $140,000.00 worth of new support?

I dont think so.

BIG waste of money.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 07:52 PM
I think no matter what's there's going to have to be someone at Independance Mall on that day, directing people to go to valley forge... to which their response will likely be laughter or anger.

The campaign needs to issue a statement - through it's email as well, so that people know in advance. Has this happened? I haven't checked my email.

American
11-01-2007, 07:52 PM
Mind your own shit, or maybe I'll just remember this comment and return the favor the day of the rally when a shitload of supporters show up at independance mall. I donated for advertising, which now was probably wasted, and worse, misleading to those who received the ads!

Awww, some one need hug?

That does suck if you put out money on this, I guess i'm getting tired of 100 friggin threads about the same thing. no worries, I'm sure it will all work out.

I think the shuttle idea is a great idea, someone needs to contact the campaign.

TruckinMike
11-01-2007, 07:53 PM
I've got an idea... I'll load my flatbed with hay bails and I'll have a liberty hay ride from the mall to the convention center.:D:D:D:D

Yahoo... I knew we'd think of something!

Truckinmike

American
11-01-2007, 07:54 PM
I think no matter what's there's going to have to be someone at Independance Mall on that day, directing people to go to valley forge... to which their response will likely be laughter or anger.

20-25 miles isnt a different state. Ron Paul is a ROCKSTAR you know bamd well they would travle that far to see a ROCKSTAR!

Sematary
11-01-2007, 07:54 PM
I've got an idea... I'll load my flatbed with hay bails and I'll have a liberty hay ride from the mall to the convention center.:D:D:D:D

Yahoo... I knew we'd think of something!

Truckinmike

We need to haul ALOT of students to this event.
Is there public transport that is affordable to Valley Forge?

Sematary
11-01-2007, 07:55 PM
20-25 miles isnt a different state. Ron Paul is a ROCKSTAR you know bamd well they would travle that far to see a ROCKSTAR!

It will be difficult for the students who live in the city and don't own vehicles - possibly thousands of them.

KewlRonduderules
11-01-2007, 07:55 PM
140 THOUSAND DOLLARS?????????

For what? A rally for people who already support Ron Paul?

That makes little sense. We need new supporters,and the rally doesnt seem like the best way to go about doing that. I mean, what makes anyone think that the media will pay attention anyway? Where was the media at the Chicago rally of 2500 people?

I think the money would be better spent contributing to the cost of ads, not some party for us supporters who are already voting for him. Oh sure, there would be some people there that arent supporters now that would be after the rally, but $140,000.00 worth of new support?

I dont think so.

BIG waste of money.

Good point.

Spirit of '76
11-01-2007, 07:55 PM
20-25 miles isnt a different state. Ron Paul is a ROCKSTAR you know bamd well they would travle that far to see a ROCKSTAR!

What about the fact that the venue will only hold about ~2000 people?

slantedview
11-01-2007, 07:56 PM
I've got an idea... I'll load my flatbed with hay bails and I'll have a liberty hay ride from the mall to the convention center.:D:D:D:D

Yahoo... I knew we'd think of something!

Truckinmike
LOL. I like it. But I guess that would defeat the purpose of having the indoors venue.

Green Mountain Boy
11-01-2007, 07:56 PM
So does this mean there will never be any huge rallies for Ron Paul in the future in a major city where lots of people can come? Will we always have to be hidden away indoors? :(

F%$k the unions, F%*k the city and its stupid grass that might get trampled.


If you're angry like me, take it out here:

https://www.ronpaul2008.com/donate/

Sematary
11-01-2007, 07:57 PM
Good point.

Actually, a bad point.
First - not 140k - more like 50
Second, there is a veterans group which is doing something the same day and has never heard the message
Third - there were TENS OF THOUSANDS of college students invited to this thing who also would be learning about Ron Paul.
Fourth - this was a BAD idea.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 07:57 PM
What about the fact that the venue will only hold about ~2000 people?

THAT is a problem.

terlinguatx
11-01-2007, 07:58 PM
Geez, 70,000 - 140,000 to hold an outdoor rally....Pretty ridiculous

Corydoras
11-01-2007, 07:59 PM
2200 is a really small hall. It's going to be claustrophobic in there.

American
11-01-2007, 08:00 PM
Well if this is the toughest thing we have to deal with then I say we are in good shape. Remember what is at stake here. I mean it sucks dont get me wrong but then again someone can stay back and direct people (if any) to the new spot that is more accommodating.

I wish he does something like this on the west coast. Philly is a bit to far for me if I want to still donate.

Spirit of '76
11-01-2007, 08:00 PM
Well, I guess I have to call my family and cancel. I hope I can get my money back for the train tickets.

I'm not going to drag people who aren't yet into Ron Paul four hours to DC and then another two on the train and then a thirty-minute cab ride to Valley Forge for a small rally in a convention center.

Oh, well. I thought this was going to be fun.

slantedview
11-01-2007, 08:00 PM
What about the fact that the venue will only hold about ~2000 people?
Let's say that a miracle happens and everybody who was planning on attending at Libery Mall somehow finds their way out to valley forge.

They will not fit.

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 08:01 PM
I said it in another thread but I will say it here, how about an educational sit-in around the Federal Reserve Bank? Make it last until they reopen on Monday. Be inspired here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Movement

specsaregood
11-01-2007, 08:01 PM
2200 is a really small hall. It's going to be claustrophobic in there.

Completely, the local meetup groups were planning on getting NEW people to this rally and use it as a way to GAIN SUPPORTERS. Not just a party for existing supporters.

2200 isn't enough to fit just the known supporters that will attend.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 08:01 PM
Well, I guess I have to call my family and cancel. I hope I can get my money back for the train tickets.

I'm not going to drag people who aren't yet into Ron Paul four hours to DC and then another two on the train and then a thirty-minute cab ride to Valley Forge for a small rally in a convention center.

Oh, well. I thought this was going to be fun.

Show up early - get your peeps inside. I will gladly stay outside to make room!

Sematary
11-01-2007, 08:02 PM
Let's say that a miracle happens and everybody who was planning on attending at Libery Mall somehow finds their way out to valley forge.

They will not fit.

I don't even think half the supporters who were planning on attending will fit in there.
This is not acceptable.

Green Mountain Boy
11-01-2007, 08:04 PM
Rallies are no fun when you are sitting down in chairs. That's not what I call a rally.

0zzy
11-01-2007, 08:04 PM
I'm kinda sad.
But it is sorta a good sign that we're complaining that 2200 rally isn't big enough, right? :)

Sematary
11-01-2007, 08:04 PM
Rallies are no fun when you are sitting down in chairs. That's not what I call a rally.

Me either.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 08:05 PM
Whatever the limitations, we need to show up IN FORCE and if we have to stand outside and make the campaign hear us and send Ron Paul out, then we do that!

Ozwest
11-01-2007, 08:06 PM
Are there grounds outside the venue where a large screen could be set-up to accomodate a spillover audience? Anyone been to this venue before who could describe the lay-out?

NewEnd
11-01-2007, 08:06 PM
real big flub

I hope they learn from this mistake.

rallies are no fun standing outside of a convention center.

CurtisLow
11-01-2007, 08:10 PM
Is the Independence mall state owned? And the governor is a democrat and supports Hillery ...:confused:

I think that price is outrageous! Hell with that much money we could rent a farm in Pa and have Woodstock 2 with free buses, beer and food for everyone. well, I guess I can dream...lol :D

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 08:10 PM
It's a National Park. Federally owned.

quickmike
11-01-2007, 08:11 PM
So does this mean there will never be any huge rallies for Ron Paul in the future in a major city where lots of people can come? Will we always have to be hidden away indoors? :(

F%$k the unions, F%*k the city and its stupid grass that might get trampled.


If you're angry like me, take it out here:

https://www.ronpaul2008.com/donate/

The important thing is right now for Ron to be frugal with his money if he wants it to last all the way through the primaries. We cant worry about this stuff right now.

Just wait, when Ron wins, I imagine he will be able to have rallies anywhere he wants and wont have to worry about the cost so much.

Lets just work on getting him to that point, and save the celebration till that time.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 08:12 PM
real big flub

I hope they learn from this mistake.

rallies are no fun standing outside of a convention center.

Hopefully there will be enough of us standing outside that we can drive them out to talk to us!

KewlRonduderules
11-01-2007, 08:12 PM
FYI, I have to say I am disappointed too. I think they screwed up but hopefully they will learn from this. I don't want to sound critical but maybe Dr. Paul will get some new staff because of this. At this point, he has raised so much money and is a rising star. He needs the staff that will effectively promote him.

Nevertheless, there is a good side to this- less likelihood of violence, it's cheaper, and we still can meet at Independence Mall before the rally if we have shuttles picking us up. Maybe have our own little pre-rally.

TheEvilDetector
11-01-2007, 08:13 PM
Actually, a bad point.
First - not 140k - more like 50
Second, there is a veterans group which is doing something the same day and has never heard the message
Third - there were TENS OF THOUSANDS of college students invited to this thing who also would be learning about Ron Paul.
Fourth - this was a BAD idea.

I agree with Sematary on the above points and also I don't think its right to make a late change like
this when the grassroots have informed thousands of the original location.

This is a lemon and there needs to be a lemonade made. The way to do this is turn the original location into a sort of a mini rally and then
send people to the other location via buses. However the official rally then needs to be time adjusted to allow for this.

This may be difficult and there certainly will be confusion, that's what happens when you change venues so late.

eok321
11-01-2007, 08:13 PM
Everyone just go to independence mall and fly banners/Flags/Signs etc..If nothing else the 8000 or so people who couldnt have fit in to valley forge can hand out info and make an awesome youtube!!!

Its not the man its the message...

me3
11-01-2007, 08:14 PM
What are they going to do about the hundreds or thousands of people who don't get the word and show up at Independence Mall expecting to see Ron Paul?


Yeah, it would make sense if they had some sort of shuttle service
The campaign should provide a bus service to the new site. It's the least they can do. Can be accomplished for a fraction of the material and labor costs the grassroots invested into Independence Mall.


Worse, what are they going to do about the media and camera crews there to film those people's reactions?
Well, they are so disorganized at HQ, it will probably be up to the same grassroots people who got shafted for their efforts to contact and update the media.

I'm very disappointed by this.

walt
11-01-2007, 08:15 PM
I agree with Sematary.

It is not right to make a late change like this when the grassroots have informed thousands of the original location.


yep - where's the aplogy for the inconvenience? They guys are command and control no different from the other politicians people. Zero blogosphere relations clue. Pathetic.

RobotJaxxon
11-01-2007, 08:16 PM
Oh, well. I thought this was going to be fun.

My thought exactly. I was planning to drive down from Boston and help make a scene in the middle of Philadelphia. Rally in the suburbs seems like an oxymoron. Just ask Rush. :rolleyes:

I'll probably stay up here instead, maybe see if there's anything I can do to help out the NH people.

CurtisLow
11-01-2007, 08:16 PM
Everyone just go to independence mall and fly banners/Flags/Signs etc..If nothing else the 8000 or so people who couldnt have fit in to valley forge can hand out info and make an awesome youtube!!!

Its not the man its the message...

Good idea!

Brutus
11-01-2007, 08:18 PM
Make the most of this. Give the campaign the confidence to swing for the fences at the next event by swamping the venue with loud happy supporters and newbies.

freedominnumbers
11-01-2007, 08:19 PM
My thought exactly. I was planning to drive down from Boston and help make a scene in the middle of Philadelphia. Rally in the suburbs seems like an oxymoron. Just ask Rush. :rolleyes:

I'll probably stay up here instead, maybe see if there's anything I can do to help out the NH people.

Kinda what I was thinking. It's hardly worth the drive from CT for an average rally.

MsDoodahs
11-01-2007, 08:20 PM
I've not read the whole thread, but I have a question.

Who runs Philadelphia?

Doesn't Ed Rendell own that city now?

Sematary
11-01-2007, 08:21 PM
My thought exactly. I was planning to drive down from Boston and help make a scene in the middle of Philadelphia. Rally in the suburbs seems like an oxymoron. Just ask Rush. :rolleyes:

I'll probably stay up here instead, maybe see if there's anything I can do to help out the NH people.

NO, follow me down to Philly! :D

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 08:21 PM
The campaign should provide a bus service to the new site. It's the least they can do. Can be accomplished for a fraction of the material and labor costs the grassroots invested into Independence Mall.

It is my understanding that this is exactly what they are going to do.

Spirit of '76
11-01-2007, 08:22 PM
It is my understanding that this is exactly what they are going to do.

The question has been asked:

Where are you gaining this understanding?

KewlRonduderules
11-01-2007, 08:23 PM
If they get shuttles, we can have our own pre-rally from Independence Mall prior to going.

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 08:23 PM
The question has been asked:

Where are you gaining this understanding?

I called earlier this evening and was transferred to someone in the campaign. We talked for quite awhile.

CurtisLow
11-01-2007, 08:27 PM
I've not read the whole thread, but I have a question.

Who runs Philadelphia?

Doesn't Ed Rendell own that city now?

Yes, governor Ed Rendell is a democrat and supports Hillery

mrd
11-01-2007, 08:27 PM
There is finally an official location for the rally, as listed on ronpaul2008.com. It is an indoor venue, so the weather is no longer a worry.

The official site took RSVPs, they are the ones clued into how many people are actually coming. If there isn't enough room for everyone, it's all the better - just shows an overwhelming number of supporters!

C'mon guys this is going to be great! Turn the frowns upside downs! Put on your party hats.

Thom1776
11-01-2007, 08:27 PM
I have to say that this turned out to be a bunch of major fucking bullshit!

Indoor venue that holds 2200?

He can get more people than that at a spontaneous rally!

When the Patriots won their first Super Bowl, 50,000 of us stood in 15° weather for 5 hours to see and hear our heroes. We would've been there if a freakin' blizzard was going on!

HEY! CAMPAIGN! YOU FUCKED UP!!

I won't be making the trip from Connecticut, now.

Good luck to the rest of you.

Spirit of '76
11-01-2007, 08:28 PM
I called earlier this evening and was transferred to someone in the campaign. We talked for quite awhile.

Ah, thanks.

terlinguatx
11-01-2007, 08:29 PM
Yes, governor Ed Rendell is a democrat and supports Hillery

Everything is corrupted when goverment gets it's tentacles around it. I don't know how people can live in Philly. There's no way this should cost more than $25,000

TheEvilDetector
11-01-2007, 08:30 PM
The site of the Ron Paul rally scheduled for Saturday, November 10 has had to be moved from Independence Mall to the Valley Forge Convention Center.

Numerous requirements have forced us to make the move; including an $80,000 to $140,000 price tag. This information was slow in coming, but it has arrived from the city, the unions, and the audio/visual rental companies of Philadelphia. In contrast, all previous rallies we’ve held, regardless of city, have cost between $5,000 and $9,000.

The Valley Forge Convention Center is located 30 minutes from the Philadelphia International Airport and is easily accessible from the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

The rally will begin at 12 noon in the Philadelphia Room of the Valley Forge Convention Center. The convention center is located at 1160 1st Avenue, King of Prussia, Pennsylvania 19406. For directions call (610) 337-4000 or visit www.vfconventioncenter.com.

Join us in historic Valley Forge on November 10!


http://ronpaul2008.typepad.com/ron_paul_2008/2007/11/philadelphia-ra.html

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Let me preface the following by saying that I am strong RP supporter, but that doesn't mean his campaign staff are above criticism.

So here is my opinion:

While the late change of venue despite mass communication from grassroots to people about the original location is bad,
nothing is worse than not postponing the rally about an hour or two, to allow those that go to the original location to shift to the new location.

This is a strategic and tactical blunder of gigantic proportions on the part of the official campaign staff.

I know RP is a conservative fellow and has every right to be, however this is taking fiscal conservatism too far.

Without these grass-roots people, RP would have ZERO campaign power. Yes ZERO. RP is ALL GRASSROOTS!

Just when the grassroots organised the biggest rally yet, the official campaign shafts them.

Do they not want to win?
What about the symbolism of the original location?

What a powerful message it would make having a rally in that place and this message would more than certain pay for itself in free advertising by mainstream.

Not only that but you could easily raise enough money to cover costs from people who are there.

5000 supporters giving $30 each. There is your $150K.

Short-sighted, irresponsible and self defeating decision.

Shame and the second serious mistake of the official campaign so far, after the 1st NH TV commercial (which was LAME!).

Flame me if you will, I honestly believe my conclusions and stand by them unapologetically.

KewlRonduderules
11-01-2007, 08:31 PM
Everything is corrupted when goverment gets it's tentacles around it. I don't know how people can live in Philly. There's no way this should cost more than $25,000

I'm sure word got around and jacked up prices because it was Dr. Paul.

d991
11-01-2007, 08:31 PM
F*ck it. I'm coming down from Canada - an 8 hour drive to Philly. Another 30 minute drive is not going to deter me. I totally agree that this situation sucks but the campaign should not have to spend over $100,000 to put on a rally - that is rediculous.

I realize a lot of people are disappointed and many are now not coming and I understand the frustration, but do not let this deter you from supporting Ron Paul as much as you have been.

ACJohn
11-01-2007, 08:31 PM
How do you Un-RSVP ?

Phenom24
11-01-2007, 08:32 PM
WORST...DECISION....EVER.

Valley Forge. Yes, it's historic. So is Washington's Crossing. But the Mall is the place where it all began for our country, and it would be such a monumental thing for Dr. Paul's campaign to erupt skyward from the energy and passion there on that day.

Harumph. Valley Forge???? (cough) bad idea (cough)

piotr1
11-01-2007, 08:33 PM
Can we setup a giant tv at independence mall with a live feed from valley forge?

TheEvilDetector
11-01-2007, 08:35 PM
Can we setup a giant tv at independence mall with a live feed from valley forge?

That is BRILLIANT!

Lemons -> Lemonade!

TruckinMike
11-01-2007, 08:37 PM
Even if it would have cost $140,000 this would have been worth it in free advertising. The crowd... would have been huge... I've just lost an enormous amount of motivation to even make it.

I was ... I was going to be there no matter what crappy load i had to take to get there. but now.. i just don"t feel the same.

if you kill the campaigners motivation, you've killed the campaign!

However, if I do make it, my hay ride is still offered.:(

I think we need to have an event at the mall somehow. We don't need the "campaigns" permission. And maybe dr. PAul could catch a taxi over to see the rest of the crowd.:o

is it me...or is this a real bummer?

TruckinMike

EDIT+++++++++++++++

edit--- I was busy complaining with the above statement while y'all were coming up with a great idea!!! YES>>> A big screen ..thats the ticket!!

MsDoodahs
11-01-2007, 08:37 PM
I'm sure word got around and jacked up prices because it was Dr. Paul.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Love the big screen tv idea, also the pre rally party idea...

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 08:38 PM
This is the event the Philadelphia Meetup won and was entitled to because of their fundraising efforts. The campaign is delivering that, somewhat, as the rules did say the Meetup was supposed to organize the rally and that is not the case here. But it is only the Meetup group in question that can question that, and allegedly their leader has gone AWOL.

I say all the Grassroots efforts should be remembered, plans recorded, and they be revived next summer if we make it that far. If he wins a lot of delegates we still have time for another grassroots events in Philly. All the work should not be for naught.

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 08:39 PM
They did say this would be broadcast on Justin.tv.

KewlRonduderules
11-01-2007, 08:39 PM
F*ck it. I'm coming down from Canada - an 8 hour drive to Philly. Another 30 minute drive is not going to deter me. I totally agree that this situation sucks but the campaign should not have to spend over $100,000 to put on a rally - that is rediculous.

I realize a lot of people are disappointed and many are now not coming and I understand the frustration, but do not let this deter you from supporting Ron Paul as much as you have been.

Great to have you. :)

There is nothing wrong with being disappointed - how you convey it is essential. ;)

I think the lack of organization in HQ is hurting Dr. Paul. Can something be done about this? Things cannot continue this way. My concern is the next event. I cannot help to think 'what will happen to the next big event?' :(

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 08:40 PM
Valley Forge. Yes, it's historic.

It's at a convention center next to Valley Forge. I wouldn't call that historic except in name.

Hurricane Bruiser
11-01-2007, 08:40 PM
Well I was going to drive 6.5 hours up there with my 3 kids all under 3yrs old plus my wife. I was really looking forward to a big outdoor rally with thousands of supporters. This event was supposed to happen whether Ron Paul showed up or not. Now the event won't happen at all because the campaign was given the permit plus the different location won't hold the crowd that would have shown up at the mall. This ticks me off and I don't believe the high cost number given. Just today I RSVP'd when I figured out you were supposed to and now I wonder how to undo that.

What is to prevent us from descending on the mall anyway without a permit?

boo boo boo boo boo and more boos.

terlinguatx
11-01-2007, 08:41 PM
I'm sure word got around and jacked up prices because it was Dr. Paul.


Yeah, I bet the other factors are that the campaign feels like they are being ripped off and doesn't won't to condemn the philly politicians like Rendell outright.

ItsTime
11-01-2007, 08:41 PM
I am glad that Ron Paul is choosing to spend far less than the 140k holy cow! That is 10% of the ads they are running in New Hampshire! This rally will only be a blimp in MSM... that is reality.

Diana
11-01-2007, 08:43 PM
I've got an idea... I'll load my flatbed with hay bails and I'll have a liberty hay ride from the mall to the convention center.:D:D:D:D

Yahoo... I knew we'd think of something!

Truckinmike

Excellent idea!

TheEvilDetector
11-01-2007, 08:43 PM
I am glad that Ron Paul is choosing to spend far less than the 140k holy cow! That is 10% of the ads they are running in New Hampshire! This rally will only be a blimp in MSM... that is reality.

Not if there is 5000+ people it won't.

This is a very short-sighted decision.

ItsTime
11-01-2007, 08:43 PM
Obama has rallys of 5k all the time... no biggie


Not if there is 5000+ people it won't.

This is a very short-sighted decision.

KewlRonduderules
11-01-2007, 08:44 PM
I am glad that Ron Paul is choosing to spend far less than the 140k holy cow! That is 10% of the ads they are running in New Hampshire! This rally will only be a blimp in MSM... that is reality.

Yeah, that is an awfully high price especially for Philly. I can see something like this in NyC- it is so damn expensive. But Philly?:confused:

fletcher
11-01-2007, 08:45 PM
I'm glad the campaign is being smart with our money. The money is MUCH better spent on ads than some extremely overpriced rally that will get few new supporters.

TheEvilDetector
11-01-2007, 08:45 PM
Obama has rallys of 5k all the time... no biggie

no biggie... for Obama.. MSM darling. TOP TIER OBAMA.

If Ron Paul gets these crowds, the MSM will have to surrender any notion of underdog and admit he is as real as it comes.

Ok, here is the math. They are saving $130K and the meeting will be limited to 2,000 people, hidden and tucked 20-30 miles away.

If they spent the money they could have a rally that is unlimited, and likely to draw 5,000+ people and the big
MSM exposure being in the open like that and in a historically very significant location quite relevant to RPs campaign.

I wonder how the overflow (in relation to center's pennsylvania room's capacity) people will feel on the day.

Thomas_Paine
11-01-2007, 08:46 PM
Rallies are no fun when you are sitting down in chairs. That's not what I call a rally.

They usually have some chairs but mostly it will be standing room. I have been to two rallies (both indoors) the Vegas one w/ 400, and the SLC one with 1000. They were both incredible. The rally in Philly will be awesome.....The energy will be incredible. Let's enjoy it, stop complaining....think positively and move on... Honestly, I am spending a lot of my time and money to go (We live in AZ), but only positive thinking will move this forward. We must stand together, on fire for our freedom, not divided and grumbling...

TruckinMike
11-01-2007, 08:47 PM
Valley forge is where they ate their saddles. because they were starving to death. I guess we should let that be a motivating factor...

They were eating shoe leather... while we have to ride 30 minutes in a cozy car or bus.

thats a fair trade off;)

Ok... i've got my mojo back:D

Truckinmike

KewlRonduderules
11-01-2007, 08:47 PM
no biggie... for Obama.. MSM darling. TOP TIER OBAMA.

If Ron Paul gets these crowds, the MSM will have to surrender any notion of underdog and admit he is as real as it comes.

Exactly! Sounds like they screwed him over.

If so, I can see why the campaign did this. It would make much better sense.

Nevertheless, the campaign should have been better organized.

me3
11-01-2007, 08:49 PM
They did say this would be broadcast on Justin.tv.
The head cam is lame, and Justin.tv's sidebar chat is intolerable.

RobotJaxxon
11-01-2007, 08:50 PM
I've not read the whole thread, but I have a question.

Who runs Philadelphia?

Doesn't Ed Rendell own that city now?

Being raised in Pittsburgh, I feel obligated to say Philadelphia sucks.

Rendell is an egotistical idiot. He and his cronies did everything they could to get in the way of Pittsburgh building a new arena earlier this year.

However, the awesome RP group in Philly gives me some hope that the place isn't all bad.

JoshLowry
11-01-2007, 08:50 PM
Some of you need to take a break and watch this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZF0yYdrAovQ

Ozwest
11-01-2007, 08:51 PM
On the convention center website, it says it's only a 20 minute drive from Philly. Is it in the 3,800 acre National Park? If it is, maybe a combination indoor/outdoor rally could be organized with live feed on a large screen to accomodate overflow. Anyone out there with local knowledge?

KewlRonduderules
11-01-2007, 08:52 PM
Some of you need to take a break and watch this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZF0yYdrAovQ


LOL!!!

Thanks I needed that!!!

:D

ItsTime
11-01-2007, 08:52 PM
How can they be happy? They need to drive a whole 30 mins to save the campaign 130k dollars! :confused:


Some of you need to take a break and watch this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZF0yYdrAovQ

kherty
11-01-2007, 08:53 PM
Everyone just go to independence mall and fly banners/Flags/Signs etc..If nothing else the 8000 or so people who couldnt have fit in to valley forge can hand out info and make an awesome youtube!!!

Its not the man its the message...


I agree...put a sign in everybody's hands and walk the streets of Philly!!!!

Get the message out there! Who cares about the rally, let's get some publicity!!!

A Ron Paul Rebel
11-01-2007, 08:54 PM
Can we setup a giant tv at independence mall with a live feed from valley forge?

Would a permit be required?


FYI, I have to say I am disappointed too. I think they screwed up but hopefully they will learn from this. I don't want to sound critical but maybe Dr. Paul will get some new staff because of this. At this point, he has raised so much money and is a rising star. He needs the staff that will effectively promote him.

Nevertheless, there is a good side to this- less likelihood of violence, it's cheaper, and we still can meet at Independence Mall before the rally if we have shuttles picking us up. Maybe have our own little pre-rally.

Good idea!


The important thing is right now for Ron to be frugal with his money if he wants it to last all the way through the primaries. We cant worry about this stuff right now.

Just wait, when Ron wins, I imagine he will be able to have rallies anywhere he wants and wont have to worry about the cost so much.

Lets just work on getting him to that point, and save the celebration till that time.

That's crap, he'll lose way more than $140,000 from new and old supporters.


Are there grounds outside the venue where a large screen could be set-up to accomodate a spillover audience? Anyone been to this venue before who could describe the lay-out?

WE DEFINITELY NEED THIS!

...I don't think the people in the campaign have ever handled a candidate of this magnitude and I think they are playing small time. 2200 capacity??? That seems like a small dinner party compared to what may very well be there.

This of #2 F***UP.

WAKE UP CAMPAIGN.

Honestly, I say that everyone should just bring banners and march 5,000 strong down the streets of Philly!

RobS
11-01-2007, 09:01 PM
Stop it. If you were planning on going, still go! Would it have been cool to be downtown? Yes, it would've. We can still see Ron Paul at the biggest rally for him yet. It will still be very energetic and fun. We will still get media attention, even if it is somewhat less.

This isn't going to kill the campaign, we can still show up with 10,000 people at the convention center if people stop pissing and moaning. Grow up and keep telling people about Ron. Get over yourselves guys, I'll still be there and I am sure I'll have a blast! You can to, it is all about attitude.

Let's do what we can to still keep this rally HUGE, we can do it!

TheEvilDetector
11-01-2007, 09:02 PM
...I don't think the people in the campaign have ever handled a candidate of this magnitude and I think they are playing small time. 2200 capacity??? That seems like a small dinner party compared to what may very well be there.


I agree, he has been able to get 2,000 strong crowds on very short notice previously.

This rally has been known about for a long time and MASSIVE efforts have been made to get people to come by the grass roots patriots.

It is not unreasonable to expect 5,000 or more. So how the hell does a room with 2,200 capacity work in this situation? Clearly it doesn't!

TheEvilDetector
11-01-2007, 09:03 PM
Stop it. If you were planning on going, still go! Would it have been cool to be downtown? Yes, it would've. We can still see Ron Paul at the biggest rally for him yet. It will still be very energetic and fun. We will still get media attention, even if it is somewhat less.

This isn't going to kill the campaign, we can still show up with 10,000 people at the convention center if people stop pissing and moaning. Grow up and keep telling people about Ron. Get over yourselves guys, I'll still be there and I am sure I'll have a blast! You can to, it is all about attitude.

Let's do what we can to still keep this rally HUGE, we can do it!

You can show up, but you will be standing outside while he is giving a speech inside.

bbachtung
11-01-2007, 09:03 PM
I wonder if it is too late for the campaign to go with the 2,900 seat Academy of Music?

They charge about $15,000 for a weekend event (nothing is currently scheduled there for November 10).

http://www.kimmelcenter.org/facilities/rent-academy.php

TruckinMike
11-01-2007, 09:03 PM
The Valley Forge Convention Center overlooks the picturesque, rolling hillsides of 3,600-acre Valley Forge National Historical Park, a place where natural beauty meets high-tech convenience. An ideal venue for world-class meetings, expositions and tradeshows. After your event, you'll find numerous ways to relax and refresh at nearby golf courses, spas, art galleries, paintball, wineries and shopping.

The Convention Center is the offers the largest right to work exhibit space in Suburban Philadelphia with over 108,000 gross square feet of space. Great Space, Great location and great amenities.

The park is across the highway from the convention center... based on my GPS mapping software.

and thanks for the vid:D I needed it.

Truckinmike

MozoVote
11-01-2007, 09:04 PM
If it was $46K as was being discussed this morning, I'd have said suck it up and hold the rally.

But $140K (or more!?) and I can begin to understand this. It's tough to get Ron to back down on principle, and he probably didn't like being "shaken down" by bureaucrats and union regulations.

Also, since we are getting later into the fall when it can be be cold and wet, I'm not surprised that the campaign goes for indoor venues when possible.

TheEvilDetector
11-01-2007, 09:06 PM
If it was $46K as was being discussed this morning, I'd have said suck it up and hold the rally.

But $140K (or more!?) and I can begin to understand this. It's tough to get Ron to back down on principle, and he probably didn't like being "shaken down" by bureaucrats and union regulations.

Also, since we are getting later into the fall when it can be be cold and wet, I'm not surprised that the campaign goes for indoor venues when possible.

Great, now the TPTB are pricing RP out of existence. Well we knew they are going to fight him, a price war. LOL

You have witnessed the power of money. Except it was used against us and we lost.

ACJohn
11-01-2007, 09:06 PM
Getting to the Tipping Point or Time to Go Big or Go Home.

MsDoodahs
11-01-2007, 09:07 PM
It is ... what it is.

Work around it.

Keep brainstorming ideas for how to make this a great time REGARDLESS.

We're the best at working around obstacles.

:)

Ozwest
11-01-2007, 09:11 PM
What about everyone march in Philly, then catch shuttle buses to Valley Forge, they set up a large screen with live feed outside the venue for spillover, Ron greets outside supporters after the speech, everyone catches the shuttle buses back to Philly for more marching and Pubbing.

gocubsgo
11-01-2007, 09:11 PM
Even if it would have cost $140,000 this would have been worth it in free advertising. The crowd... would have been huge... I've just lost an enormous amount of motivation to even make it.

I was ... I was going to be there no matter what crappy load i had to take to get there. but now.. i just don"t feel the same.

if you kill the campaigners motivation, you've killed the campaign!

However, if I do make it, my hay ride is still offered.:(

I think we need to have an event at the mall somehow. We don't need the "campaigns" permission. And maybe dr. PAul could catch a taxi over to see the rest of the crowd.:o

is it me...or is this a real bummer?

TruckinMike

EDIT+++++++++++++++

edit--- I was busy complaining with the above statement while y'all were coming up with a great idea!!! YES>>> A big screen ..thats the ticket!!

I feel exactly the same way. I am thoroughly disappointed, especially since I was coming from Chicago.

TheEvilDetector
11-01-2007, 09:11 PM
It is ... what it is.

Work around it.

Keep brainstorming ideas for how to make this a great time REGARDLESS.

We're the best at working around obstacles.

:)

Best idea I heard so far was a Giant TV Screen at original location with live feed from the convention centre.

We know that the campaign plans to start official event at the same time as the grassroots organised rally was scheduled to run at.
This means no time to transport those who came to original location unaware of the late change.

Surely, given its just a bunch of people watching a TV without speeches, media or anything else it would not cost that much to arrange?

Although the media may seize on this and give it a spin. I can imagine the headlines but I will restrict this to my imagination for now.

MsDoodahs
11-01-2007, 09:12 PM
Ozwest, that sounds perfect!

TheEvilDetector
11-01-2007, 09:14 PM
Ozwest, that sounds perfect!

Maybe have 2 large screens then, one outside convention centre and one at original location near the independence hall.

NewEnd
11-01-2007, 09:15 PM
They need to bump the event up an hour later, pronto.

Not even giving time for people to arrive from the original destination is bad planning.

I hope the person in charge of this doesn't get butt-hurt. He/she just needs to do it immediately.

seefate
11-01-2007, 09:16 PM
Hey guys,

I work about 30 seconds from the Valley Forge Convention Center. The center itself is nice and has two Hotels, a radison and something else attached to it. The Park is down the street about a 1/4 mile going under Route 422 (the Highway coming from Philly). There is plenty of parking and things to do afterwards including the King Of Prussia Mall. As far as the location, the Convention center and entire parking lot is visible from the Route 422 so anyone in the parking lot holding signs will be easily visible and the roads there are rather busy during the weekend.

If you have any more specific questions feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer them.

-Chad

BizmanUSA
11-01-2007, 09:18 PM
As far as the quoted prices posted on the RP website ($80-$140K) someone at HQ has seriously padded what was quoted to them or the campaign has added costs that were not discussed. These extra costs in an earlier post are listed as a $4,000 difference (listed as between $5000-$9000 for previous rallies)

I know this for a fact as I was quoting the prices.

The information was NOT SLOW in coming to HQ staff but maybe HQ was a bit slow in absorbing what a HUGE outdoor rally production costs in a downtown/urban major city in the United States. This statement is NOT meant as an insult or a slap in the face but something that the powers to be must realize as we go on to win this for RP and us.

The prices quoted varied on what HQ wanted to provide for all the rally attendees.

I had advised I would keep trying to limit costs but I needed to know what was to be cut from the menu list of choices.

There were some quirky stipulations by the park management but nothing that couldn't be figured out.

Man, I would have love to have a 140K budget but it was NEVER EVER mentioned!

Yes there were union costs involved but last I knew they also vote. It is always good to include them in on events where they typically operate and Philly IS an organized labor town. Talk about how fast the bad word can travel it (the Bad Word) actually travels faster in union land than it does on this forum - I know that is hard to believe but I think it is true!

There is so much that I can rebut but it is truly not worth the effort for it was all about cost and not the "highly complex issues" as what was quoted by someone from HQ.

IMHO, this planned rally at Independence Park was a major opportunity to send Ron Paul and this campaign into the stratosphere helping RP land and take the office of POTUS.

Being frugal is a good thing but it seems this is a case of penny (although many) wise and pound-foolish. We all can only hope that HQ soon sees a bigger picture while also throwing a bone to us grassroots people.

As a campaign official said to me "This is SO SAD! :(

BizmanUSA



The site of the Ron Paul rally scheduled for Saturday, November 10 has had to be moved from Independence Mall to the Valley Forge Convention Center.

Numerous requirements have forced us to make the move; including an $80,000 to $140,000 price tag. This information was slow in coming, but it has arrived from the city, the unions, and the audio/visual rental companies of Philadelphia. In contrast, all previous rallies we’ve held, regardless of city, have cost between $5,000 and $9,000.

The Join us in historic Valley Forge on November 10!



Note: Sections of quote edited as previously posted in many places

McDermit
11-01-2007, 09:18 PM
This is shit.

SEPTA doesn't even freakin cover Valley Forge.

Ozwest
11-01-2007, 09:20 PM
Hey guys,

I work about 30 seconds from the Valley Forge Convention Center. The center itself is nice and has two Hotels, a radison and something else attached to it. The Park is down the street about a 1/4 mile going under Route 422 (the Highway coming from Philly). There is plenty of parking and things to do afterwards including the King Of Prussia Mall. As far as the location, the Convention center and entire parking lot is visible from the Route 422 so anyone in the parking lot holding signs will be easily visible and the roads there are rather busy during the weekend.

If you have any more specific questions feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer them.

-Chad

Where would be the best place to set up a large screen Chad? Right outside the venue or somewhere near by.

NewEnd
11-01-2007, 09:21 PM
This is shit.

SEPTA doesn't even freakin cover Valley Forge.

I assume thats the mass transit?

if so, it couldn't handle the load anyways.


Yeah, I haven't been upset at he campaign yet, but they should have just eaten the costs, and done the rally. I am upset at the campaign now.

literatim
11-01-2007, 09:22 PM
:mad:

seefate
11-01-2007, 09:27 PM
Where would be the best place to set up a large screen Chad? Right outside the venue or somewhere near by.

They have several parking lots, the biggest one however is a bit of a hill so I don't know how well that would work. They have a smaller one in front that might work out a bit better. As far as in the actual park I believe your going to need a permit because this might end up being a lot of people..

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&q=convention+center&near=Valley+Forge,+PA&fb=1&cid=0,0,16566940788309189216&sa=X&oi=local_result&resnum=1&ct=image

Go into the satellite view to get a better idea of what I am talking about..

McDermit
11-01-2007, 09:28 PM
I assume thats the mass transit?

if so, it couldn't handle the load anyways.


Yeah, I haven't been upset at he campaign yet, but they should have just eaten the costs, and done the rally. I am upset at the campaign now.

Well, the major thing is that a fair number of people in the city rely on SEPTA (public transit) for everything. Not everyone has a car. Tons of students would have been able to walk or take a bus or train to the rally at Indy Mall. It may have been crowded, but it would have worked.

Everything about this just sucks. Indoor rally for 2000 supporters. Woohoo. Like we have had 20 of those already.

walt
11-01-2007, 09:32 PM
To be brutally honest - he should be in New Hampshire that weekend.

iskimtsnow
11-01-2007, 09:33 PM
LAME-----Short sighted HQ committee unwilling to stick their necks out on this one IMHO:(

bdmarti
11-01-2007, 09:34 PM
Since this looks like the place to vent...I too think it was a mistake to move the rally.

I was thinking of making the trip myself, but not now.

Call me crazy, but I bet if the campaign simply asked us to raise 140K for the rally, they'd have it tommorow.

walt
11-01-2007, 09:34 PM
Well, the major thing is that a fair number of people in the city rely on SEPTA (public transit) for everything. Not everyone has a car. Tons of students would have been able to walk or take a bus or train to the rally at Indy Mall. It may have been crowded, but it would have worked.

Everything about this just sucks. Indoor rally for 2000 supporters. Woohoo. Like we have had 20 of those already.

agreed, should cancel the whole thing and go to NH - this is like kinda being pregnant.

Ozwest
11-01-2007, 09:36 PM
They have several parking lots, the biggest one however is a bit of a hill so I don't know how well that would work. They have a smaller one in front that might work out a bit better. As far as in the actual park I believe your going to need a permit because this might end up being a lot of people..

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&q=convention+center&near=Valley+Forge,+PA&fb=1&cid=0,0,16566940788309189216&sa=X&oi=local_result&resnum=1&ct=image

Go into the satellite view to get a better idea of what I am talking about..

Sounds like there are a few good options. With a bit of Grass Roots ingenuity this Rally can be resurrected... How about everyone puts their heads together and let's turn this puppy around!

McDermit
11-01-2007, 09:44 PM
To be brutally honest - he should be in New Hampshire that weekend.

In that case, they should never have asked Bob for the permit. We would have had our monster rally without RP even being there. They hijaked OUR grassroots event... and then fucked it up. How is that fair?

I have the feeling that if RP was aware of this situation, heads would be rolling.

scottincr
11-01-2007, 09:47 PM
Poor decision by the campaign!!! We are going to raise $12M for Dr. Paul this quarter, they could have invested $50 grand into a well publicized event like this and really helped energize and expand Dr Paul's support base. They could have collected voluntary donations at the event to cover the event costs.

I am in Florida and have been viewing this from the sidelines and I have to say that I was excited for Philly and looking forward to reading and seeing youtubes of the event, now it seems a bit anti-climatic.

The best thing to do is have 5,000 people show up for the event at Valley Forge and leave the campaign scratching their heads and hold their dicks. Realizing what a shitty decision they made and that they still do not understand the power and commitment of Dr. Paul's supporters.

Just because a couple of dumb asses make a poor decision about this venue does not mean we do not stop spreading Dr. Paul's message, working toward getting him elected or attending the event!

Ozwest
11-01-2007, 09:50 PM
Instead of moaning about it, why not adapt to the circumstances and turn this thing around. There's too many clever and motivated people on this board to let this thing die in the ass.

TruckinMike
11-01-2007, 09:51 PM
They could have collected voluntary donations at the event to cover the event costs.

YES

For the trouble they've caused people wold gladly fork over some extra cash to have it at independence hall.

Lets bring that option to the table... NOW!

JerzieJennie
11-01-2007, 09:56 PM
Ok, so the major issues are:

1) Space
2) Transportation

So we have to start thinking in terms of solutions. Somebody scope out the park. There has to be a battlefield out there somewhere. If we cant be down town, we have to at least be able to give the people who are arriving a place to go - so as not to discourage people from attending.

TRANSPORTATION
Every anti-war march that I've been to has always scheduled busses to meet at different corners or location, and shuttled people to the march. Someone from the area needs to get on the phone quickly and see if you can charter some busses - maybe just charge 30-40 a head to cover costs. You could do that through chip in or through your own meetup websites.

MOST OF ALL:

We need to act QUICKLY. There is no time to wait around for other people to act - take initiative.


Word of caution... if we have a few hundred people show up at Independence Mall, that is a lot less people at VF. If the cameras show up, and we are scattered throughout the city- all I can picture is them taking the picture of the smallest group and using that as their cover story. (Iowa Straw Poll Anyone?)

I really think this is a divided we fall sort of moment. We need to get everyone together at one place, and if anyone is in contact with HQ, tell them we need a park for overflow, or its going to be chaos. A second stage with a quick thank you from RP would be more than enough for the overflow crowd that wouldnt get to see him at first.

Alright - BE THE CHANGE. TAKE INITIATIVE. We are a TEAM.

Ready.......................... GO!

BizmanUSA
11-01-2007, 10:05 PM
Where would be the best place to set up a large screen Chad? Right outside the venue or somewhere near by.

I have a large LED video screen truck avaiable for rent (was one of the options for the Philly Rally) if someone wants to contact me to arrange a plan.

It is good for outdoors use (more than bright enough) and is 9' x 16' screen size

Maybe make a outdoor rally overflow area?

Lets make lemonade out of these lemons!

BizmanUSA

nayjevin
11-01-2007, 10:08 PM
there are many reasons the campaign might have for doing this, even though it seems like such a bad idea on the surface. Perhaps they are aiming to overflow and make bigger headlines. Maybe there is a legal issue between campaign and grassroots, and they jumped the gun on the contest and had to do it this way. Maybe they were told in no uncertain terms that a rally on federal property would not end well.

Don't forget that we do not have all of the information the campaign does. It's at least possible that they know something we don't, which makes this the right decision.

brandon
11-01-2007, 10:16 PM
The campaign has recieved price quotes much higher then what can be set up in philly. Please wait until tomorrow night before canelling plans to come to philly.

gocubsgo
11-01-2007, 10:16 PM
Since this looks like the place to vent...I too think it was a mistake to move the rally.

I was thinking of making the trip myself, but not now.

Call me crazy, but I bet if the campaign simply asked us to raise 140K for the rally, they'd have it tommorow.

Exactly!!!!!

Ozwest
11-01-2007, 10:19 PM
I have a large LED video screen truck avaiable for rent (was one of the options for the Philly Rally) if someone wants to contact me to arrange a plan.

It is good for outdoors use (more than bright enough) and is 9' x 16' screen size

Maybe make a outdoor rally overflow area?

Lets make lemonade out of these lemons!

BizmanUSA

Someone on the ground in Philly needs to locate the best location close to the convention center as a location for this screen. How about setting up a stage and organizing some local bands for entertainment and to draw the Uni and College crowd? There is limited time remaining, so everyone needs to step up to the plate NOW.

Duckman
11-01-2007, 10:21 PM
Poor decision by the campaign!!! We are going to raise $12M for Dr. Paul this quarter, they could have invested $50 grand into a well publicized event like this and really helped energize and expand Dr Paul's support base. They could have collected voluntary donations at the event to cover the event costs.

I am going to say that even if this costed $200,000 they should just DO IT. I will donate an extra $100 to the campaign that I would not have otherwise donated to cover part of it, and I'm not even planning to go because I also live in Florida!! The amount of exposure would have been immense, I think, at least in the local area (you know, Philadelphia/New Jersey!) Big population, *READY* for the Ron Paul message I am sure!!!!

It makes me sick to think that HQ is spending more money to air the "Catchin' On" ad than it will spend to hold this rally.

Moving the rally:

1) Is demoralizing to Ron Paul's KEY SUPPORTERS
2) Stands to confuse and frustrate non-RP supporters who got the message spread loud and clear by Philly meetup groups but won't find Ron Paul
3) Causes people coming in from out of town (plane tix) to potentially be unable to attend the event
4) Loses almost all the ability of this rally to actually convert new supporters, unless we can somehow bus them in.

All this over MONEY the grassroots supporters GAVE RON PAUL. Hell, his supporters gave the campaign the rights to run this event in the form of the permit! If that had not happened, I'm sure the local meetup group would still be on top of this and WE WOULD BE HAVING A SICK RALLY ON INDEPENDENCE HALL!!!!!

I'm going to support Ron Paul no matter what, but the pattern of blunders here is pretty disheartening.

gocubsgo
11-01-2007, 10:21 PM
Instead of moaning about it, why not adapt to the circumstances and turn this thing around. There's too many clever and motivated people on this board to let this thing die in the ass.

Why should we. If Ron Paul would listen to his constitutes, us, they why should we support him any longer. Without our grass roots network he'd be no where. Sure I let the First video in NH go, even though that was terrible, but now this!!! THIS IS 2 STRIKES. ONE MORE, WHERE HE OR MAYBE IT WAS JUST SOME PEOPLE IN HIS CAMPAIGN, DON'T LISTEN TO THE OVERWHELMING OPINION OF THE GRASS ROOTS NETWORK AND THAT WILL BE ALL FROM ME. I THINK WE NEED TO FLOOD THEIR OFFICES WITH PHONE CALLS AND EMAILS AS THIS IS A GREAT TRAVESTY.

gocubsgo
11-01-2007, 10:23 PM
Moving the rally:

1) Is demoralizing to Ron Paul's KEY SUPPORTERS
2) Stands to confuse and frustrate non-RP supporters who got the message spread loud and clear by Philly meetup groups but won't find Ron Paul
3) Causes people coming in from out of town (plane tix) to potentially be unable to attend the event
4) Loses almost all the ability of this rally to actually convert new supporters, unless we can somehow bus them in.



Right on!!!!!!

MsDoodahs
11-01-2007, 10:23 PM
I have a large LED video screen truck avaiable for rent (was one of the options for the Philly Rally) if someone wants to contact me to arrange a plan.

It is good for outdoors use (more than bright enough) and is 9' x 16' screen size

Maybe make a outdoor rally overflow area?

Lets make lemonade out of these lemons!

BizmanUSA

If that was in place for the anticipated overflow at the Valley Forge location, and shuttles were arranged to bring those who showed up at the original Mall site, how would this NOT work?

MsDoodahs
11-01-2007, 10:25 PM
Someone on the ground in Philly needs to locate the best location close to the convention center as a location for this screen. How about setting up a stage and organizing some local bands for entertainment and to draw the Uni and College crowd? There is limited time remaining, so everyone needs to step up to the plate NOW.

That's a great idea, Oz.

Paul4Prez
11-01-2007, 10:28 PM
I understand that people have put a lot of time, effort, and money into this rally, and the move is disappointing (and possibly a missed opportunity), but please keep the big picture in mind. The future of this country is the most important issue, and Ron Paul is far and away the best candidate in this election.

Even if we don't always agree with everything the campaign does, we have to keep moving forward and do the best we can to help Ron Paul win the nomination and the election.

parocks
11-01-2007, 10:28 PM
Someone on the ground in Philly needs to locate the best location close to the convention center as a location for this screen. How about setting up a stage and organizing some local bands for entertainment and to draw the Uni and College crowd? There is limited time remaining, so everyone needs to step up to the plate NOW.

It shouldn't be a problem getting good bands from the area to play for free
if there will be a thousand people there to watch. I book bands for venues in the Harrisburg area. I specialize at getting good bands at the last minute - filling TBAs and whatnot.

I like something like "Walk for Ron Paul" Everyone who wants to goes to Independence Mall and walks 20 miles to Valley Forge. If theres some question about a lack of press coverage of an indoor event vs a massive outdoor event, a stream of people walking through the Philly burbs might offset that. it could be seen as "dedication" it might also be seen as "crazy" but there are such things as breast cancer walks, and they can be 20 miles long, so it's not an utterly ridiculous notion.

Ozwest
11-01-2007, 10:31 PM
Why should we. If Ron Paul would listen to his constitutes, us, they why should we support him any longer. Without our grass roots network he'd be no where. Sure I let the First video in NH go, even though that was terrible, but now this!!! THIS IS 2 STRIKES. ONE MORE, WHERE HE OR MAYBE IT WAS JUST SOME PEOPLE IN HIS CAMPAIGN, DON'T LISTEN TO THE OVERWHELMING OPINION OF THE GRASS ROOTS NETWORK AND THAT WILL BE ALL FROM ME. I THINK WE NEED TO FLOOD THEIR OFFICES WITH PHONE CALLS AND EMAILS AS THIS IS A GREAT TRAVESTY.

I agree, HQ has dropped the ball, but it is important to turn this thing around NOW rather than letting it become an open wound that festers... Either try and make the event bigger with the convention center, or let's start raising some money and go for the original plan. Get constructive!

danda
11-01-2007, 10:40 PM
I've got an idea... I'll load my flatbed with hay bails and I'll have a liberty hay ride from the mall to the convention center.:D:D:D:D

Yahoo... I knew we'd think of something!

Truckinmike

That's a great idea. I hope you do it for real, and that you or someone posts the pics on here.

MsDoodahs
11-01-2007, 10:40 PM
It shouldn't be a problem getting good bands from the area to play for free
if there will be a thousand people there to watch. I book bands for venues in the Harrisburg area. I specialize at getting good bands at the last minute - filling TBAs and whatnot.

I like something like "Walk for Ron Paul" Everyone who wants to goes to Independence Mall and walks 20 miles to Valley Forge. If theres some question about a lack of press coverage of an indoor event vs a massive outdoor event, a stream of people walking through the Philly burbs might offset that. it could be seen as "dedication" it might also be seen as "crazy" but there are such things as breast cancer walks, and they can be 20 miles long, so it's not an utterly ridiculous notion.

I don't know about the walk aspect, but I'd like to ask that you keep checking here for messages as you may be called upon to help out, if you don't mind. :)

parocks
11-01-2007, 10:52 PM
I don't know about the walk aspect, but I'd like to ask that you keep checking here for messages as you may be called upon to help out, if you don't mind. :)



I check these boards everyday at least. I usually search for my screen name to check to see if people respond. I also know sound guys, but I'm not sure they'll work for free. I have 24k myspace friends, most are bands, a large percentage (most?) are from PA.

Ozwest
11-01-2007, 10:52 PM
Apparently a Delegation is going to HQ tomorrow to try and resurrect this thing... I sure hope the campaign liaisons with the Grass Roots in a productive way after this meeting.

slantedview
11-01-2007, 11:14 PM
Apparently a Delegation is going to HQ tomorrow to try and resurrect this thing... I sure hope the campaign liaisons with the Grass Roots in a productive way after this meeting.

Interesting. Will Bob be there? Any of the supporters who busted their asses at the MSNBC thing the other night?

literatim
11-01-2007, 11:29 PM
If they need to pay for it, why don't they have a gigantic donation drive at the event?

I know people planned on heavily advertising the November 11th donation drive.

drexhex
11-01-2007, 11:30 PM
where's the hq and when are they going?

Ninja Homer
11-01-2007, 11:35 PM
This really is sad. I understand the frustration on both ends... a lot of planning and expectations have gone into it, but on the other side of that $140K is a LOT of money for one rally.

How the cost came about seems really fishy to me. To think that it would cost maybe $50K at the top end for so long, and then they are given a range of $80K to $140K just 10 days before the event. A $60K variance? 10 days before an event at that price you'd think they'd have to give a single price set in stone. It looks to me like people are trying to screw with the Ron Paul campaign efforts, and not just to make money off of them.

The only suggestion I have is that money talks. If people donate $80K in say, the next 24 hours, with the specific intent of their donation going towards having the rally at Independence Mall, how could the campaign argue against that? I'm not sure what the best way to go about it would be. You can enter a Project Code when donating, but I'm not sure if that needs to be set up ahead of time. If not, everybody could use a Project Code of "4Philly" or something like that. $80K is only 3200 $25 donations. I don't think that's out of reach for this.

Bradley in DC
11-01-2007, 11:54 PM
$140,000 is a lot of money. From what I was told it could end up being more than that too. Like if the grass was damaged, etc.

These are legitimate questions that should have been asked and addressed much earlier.

NewEnd
11-02-2007, 12:03 AM
THINK WE NEED TO FLOOD THEIR OFFICES WITH PHONE CALLS AND EMAILS


I think you need to stop being a _____.

Bryan
11-02-2007, 12:23 AM
Let's keep it civil everyone...

James R
11-02-2007, 12:28 AM
BOOOOOOOOOO

They need to move the time back and run shuttle buses.

How much would shuttle busses cost? They would need at least two or three!

Nefertiti
11-02-2007, 04:26 AM
Yes there were union costs involved but last I knew they also vote. It is always good to include them in on events where they typically operate and Philly IS an organized labor town. Talk about how fast the bad word can travel it (the Bad Word) actually travels faster in union land than it does on this forum - I know that is hard to believe but I think it is true!


And the new location they chose advertises specifically that their loading dock is union-free. I certainly hope they don't have a bad history there shutting out unions or something that could be used against us.

ItsTime
11-02-2007, 04:37 AM
How did the meet up group drop the ball so badly on this one? I mean wouldnt the COST be one of the first things you would ask esp before you go ahead and make up 50k fliers. 140k dollars for any event is just way to much.


These are legitimate questions that should have been asked and addressed much earlier.

Nefertiti
11-02-2007, 04:39 AM
Maybe there is a legal issue between campaign and grassroots, and they jumped the gun on the contest and had to do it this way.
.

I think you are right there. When the Philly Meetup won the contest I feared it was the beginning of the end of our great grassroots plan. It's an example of the old adage, be careful what you wish for, as it might just come true.

I don't think we should make any effort to get it moved back to the Mall again. I do think we need to have something planned for there, but there has been enough confusion already we don't want more. I think once things were handed over to the campaign they did not work hard enough on this to make the Mall location worth its cost. Lots of good ideas were suggested about speakers for this event and I think even some committments made when it was still in the grassroots' control. I heard zero except for the country singer being added to the roster after the campaign took control. The original plan had been to get non-supporters interested in Ron Paul through a more general Liberty Rally that was less of a pep rally and more an opportunity to learn about the candidate and the issues and the history of our country that makes Ron Paul the right choice. We knew we might not even get Ron Paul to attend but we still were planning on holding the event one way or another.

I don't think it is the move to Valley Forge that is killing this event, it is that the campaign seems to have failed to understand the message we were trying to convey and weren't even prepared to give us a lineup on the Mall that would deliver what we were looking for. I really wonder how they plan to fill 3 hours up now, but that is their business now, not ours. So I am not really upset that much about the move as much as I am disappointed.

I still hope those in Philly who were involved in this just keep your original plans in mind and save them for a day next summer if we make it that far. Think of it not as cancelled or moved but just postponed.

Nefertiti
11-02-2007, 04:54 AM
How did the meet up group drop the ball so badly on this one? I mean wouldnt the COST be one of the first things you would ask esp before you go ahead and make up 50k fliers. 140k dollars for any event is just way to much.

This originally was not a Meetup event. It was first hatched in these forums and had wider support beyond Philadelphia although the Meetup was informed and invited to get involved. Then the Philly Meetup group 25 won the fundraising contest and were entitled to Ron Paul to speak at a rally there, but according to the campaign Web site, the Meetup was to organize the rally. Were 2 rallies realistic? No, so I guess someone had the idea to hand the rally over to the Meetup, who then started to involve the campaign in the planning. There was talk 1.5 months ago that the campaign or the Meetup wanted to move it indoors. And opposition of course to it then. Then due to some internal power struggles between the head of the group and the supporters, Meetup 25 basically imploded and according to some is no longer an active group but rather they formed a new group. What happened exactly after that I don't know but I have been told that the campaign asked to take it over and the grassroots or whoever was nominally in charge at that time felt they couldn't say no to the campaign

That is the history of this event as I understand it. I'm not sure it is entirely accurate but I do think those that are more intimately involved should give us a play-by-play so we can understand what happened so things like this don't happen again and we can learn from it.

I don't think anyone dropped the ball, it just got handed off too many times. We had a good leadership in place for this event from the beginning and if it didn't get handed around so many times in the last 2.5 months I think we would be having the original event now as planned.

walt
11-02-2007, 05:00 AM
I think you are right there. When the Philly Meetup won the contest I feared it was the beginning of the end of our great grassroots plan. It's an example of the old adage, be careful what you wish for, as it might just come true.

I don't think we should make any effort to get it moved back to the Mall again. I do think we need to have something planned for there, but there has been enough confusion already we don't want more. I think once things were handed over to the campaign they did not work hard enough on this to make the Mall location worth its cost. Lots of good ideas were suggested about speakers for this event and I think even some committments made when it was still in the grassroots' control. I heard zero except for the country singer being added to the roster after the campaign took control. The original plan had been to get non-supporters interested in Ron Paul through a more general Liberty Rally that was less of a pep rally and more an opportunity to learn about the candidate and the issues and the history of our country that makes Ron Paul the right choice. We knew we might not even get Ron Paul to attend but we still were planning on holding the event one way or another.

I don't think it is the move to Valley Forge that is killing this event, it is that the campaign seems to have failed to understand the message we were trying to convey and weren't even prepared to give us a lineup on the Mall that would deliver what we were looking for. I really wonder how they plan to fill 3 hours up now, but that is their business now, not ours. So I am not really upset that much about the move as much as I am disappointed.

I still hope those in Philly who were involved in this just keep your original plans in mind and save them for a day next summer if we make it that far. Think of it not as cancelled or moved but just postponed.

Nicely stated. However, at this point I wish they canceled the whole thing and spent the weekend in New hampshire.

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 05:04 AM
Maybe it's time to come up with a plan B or a plan C because "what have" and "could have", just ain't good enough. The campaign is overworked - their lazy - their outta touch - they are the experts - we are the grassroots - we know it all... Play the blame game. Pull the plug and go home. Watch the revolution on T.V... In a couple of months you'll be kicking yourself in the ass for being Nancies... Stop being a bunch of show ponies, and start taking your Country back! This ain't no disco, this ain't no party, this ain't no fool'in around...

Spirit of '76
11-02-2007, 05:07 AM
I just don't buy the official line.

$80-140 thousand? I call bullshit.

There's something else at play here.

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 05:20 AM
I just don't buy the official line.

$80-140 thousand? I call bullshit.

There's something else at play here.

It probably is a crock of shit, It will get sorted... The question is: Am I going to self destruct, or am I going hammer the middle linebacker and clear the path for Ron Paul to do a dance in the End Zone?

BenjFranklin
11-02-2007, 05:22 AM
We, as grassroots supporters need to let the campaign do their jobs! I just read on another thread that someone is using their November 5th money to take their wife out to dinner. Why, because they are mad? Give me a break! This is the future of our country we are talking about! If someone can be disuaded to donate or support Ron Paul because a rally location was moved, or because the campaign made a cheesy ad, then to the curb with ya! We don't need that kind of "support". We have a serious problem in this country, and Dr. Paul is our last hope to fix things peacefully. I understand the frustration of the local organizers, but why didn't someone wait for an official word from the campaign before promoting the location?

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 05:42 AM
So you're playing in the Rose Bowl, there's 10 seconds left on the clock, and your 15 yards from the end zone, and down by 6 points. The tight end drops an absolute "sitter" of a pass in the end zone which wins you the game... You're angry, you just saw your season pass before your eyes, but there's still 4 seconds left on the clock... What do you do, pay the living shit out of the tight end when he comes back to the huddle and give up? Or do you keep your act together and send your fullback towards the goal-line, right behind the guy who dropped the pass? If Vince Lombardi was alive he'd sort some of you guys out.

jonesohms
11-02-2007, 05:47 AM
How about having a giant TAILGATE PARTY for Ron Paul!

angelatc
11-02-2007, 05:49 AM
These are legitimate questions that should have been asked and addressed much earlier.

Well, either everybody lied to Semetary when he was working on this, or the campaign made some expensive changes.

ACJohn
11-02-2007, 05:49 AM
We, as grassroots supporters need to let the campaign do their jobs! I just read on another thread that someone is using their November 5th money to take their wife out to dinner. Why, because they are mad? Give me a break! This is the future of our country we are talking about! If someone can be disuaded to donate or support Ron Paul because a rally location was moved, or because the campaign made a cheesy ad, then to the curb with ya! We don't need that kind of "support". We have a serious problem in this country, and Dr. Paul is our last hope to fix things peacefully. I understand the frustration of the local organizers, but why didn't someone wait for an official word from the campaign before promoting the location?

Ben,

I was the one who suggested I would use my 5th money for a day out with my wife. The point being that I wanted to voice what I thought could be a downside to the decision to move the Rally in an exaggerated manner to make my case. Hyperbole look it up.

You may want to just let the campaign do their jobs (I have heard the same sentiments about the current President), but I reserve the right to dissent with my words and my pocketbook. I am not “mad” but angry that the potential for a huge rally in a highly populated area has been downsized to an inconvenient venue.

Have a good day and enjoy the traffic on I-76 on the 10th.

John

angelatc
11-02-2007, 05:57 AM
Apparently a Delegation is going to HQ tomorrow to try and resurrect this thing... I sure hope the campaign liaisons with the Grass Roots in a productive way after this meeting.

I'm just shaking my head here. Yesterday when it was all speculation, the one sentiment was that it might be OK as long as they didn't move it to Valley Forge, for the very valid reason that there is no public transportation.

So they moved it to Valley Forge?

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 05:57 AM
DAMN! My football coach, Chuck Schrader, used that same speech in 1975 for the State Championship. Sounded good at the time, but get's no traction here. My apoligies, I have got to "lighten up" about Ron Paul. Naaaah!

BizmanUSA
11-02-2007, 06:04 AM
As previously posted the $140K high cost for the event equipment site logistics is BUNK. I know as I quoted the prices and unless the camapign added other items to make the real numbers inflate to these NEW posted amounts they can only be posted for a - don't want to really hold a HUGE rally in Philly - excuse.

YES, there were sime quirky situations with the park but nothing that we could not deal with and at last resort there was insurance ALREADY arranged and money collected.

Apparently the park has NEVER had a rally of this type before. They have had probably hundreds of events and with thousands attending but not in this fashion.
Think of it as an outdoor concert style rally with RON PAUL as the headline act.

While the costs to produce this HUGE rally in such a major urban/region multi-state market were on the high side - they were no where near the high end what was posted on the RON PAUL 2008 campaign website.

Refer back to Post #130 Page 13 of this thread

BizmanUSA



Originally Posted by LibertyEagle
$140,000 is a lot of money. From what I was told it could end up being more than that too. Like if the grass was damaged, etc.



These are legitimate questions that should have been asked and addressed much earlier.

Nefertiti
11-02-2007, 06:09 AM
I remember when Sematary first went down to the park to talk to them about it they said they hadn't had an event like this in years but also they were excited about the potential of it.

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 06:09 AM
I'm just shaking my head here. Yesterday when it was all speculation, the one sentiment was that it might be OK as long as they didn't move it to Valley Forge, for the very valid reason that there is no public transportation.

So they moved it to Valley Forge?

There is not a more energized group of citizens in the world than Ron Paul supporters. When you begin to throw away some of the "shackles" that bind you, situations like this will be turned on their head and you'll realize that anything is achievable...

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 06:24 AM
Why spin your wheels about some Bot scam, and realize how you are beginning to "tame" the media through your powerful "rebuttals" and the economic power you have, which is statistically demonstrated throughout the mainstream and net with your viewership and surfing. You are a powerful force to be reckoned with.

BizmanUSA
11-02-2007, 06:26 AM
Why spin your wheels about some Bot scam, and realize how you are beginning to "tame" the media through your powerful "rebuttals" and the economic power you have, which is statistically demonstrated throughout the mainstream and net with your viewership and surfing. You are a powerful force to be reckoned with.



Huh?

literatim
11-02-2007, 06:35 AM
I think all meetup groups learned something from this: never let the official campaign take over one of your grassroots projects.

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 06:38 AM
Sorry Bizman, it's Friday night here in OZ and 9:30 PM. I often have a couple of Glenfidich's about this time... Can't stop thinking about how dissapointed some of you must be... Hope you guys keep your shit together. What you are doing is the single most important endeavor to the well-being of the world and my Family in the States.

tfelice
11-02-2007, 07:08 AM
Wow, talk about people having a hissy fit. It's a rally for pete's sake and the campaign shouldn't have to shell out 100K to do it. For that matter the grassroots spending 100K to have it is a waste of money as well. Moving it is a wise idea. The venue is good and the location is easily accessible.

Some people seem to forget that there is a Presidential campaign being run here and ultimately they are the ones in charge and know best how to run things.

tmg19103
11-02-2007, 07:12 AM
I was one of the original people involved in getting this rally going on this board after several board members came up with the idea. I also personally proposed the idea to the Philly MeetUp back in end of August when their Organizer was on vacation (I live in Philly) and they loved the idea.

None of this surprises me, and it is why I bailed on the Philly rally a ways back and decided to focus on NH. Infighting started between the MU-25 Organizer sand his Assistant Organizers, who all left MU-25 and formed MU-972 - which is the true grassroots Philly MeetUp that hits the streets, posts banners over highways, hits up the Dem. Debate at Drexel, etc.

This infighting soured me to the idea working. There is a lot of blame to go around here. IF the original Philly MU had been cohesive and IF the members on this board and that MU had run with this rally back in early September we would have raised the money and made this a huge event at the Mall. So, while we did everything we could to get this rally going early from a grassroots standpoint, it was stalled for a while in MU-25 which was given credit for winning the fundraising competition - even though it was a multiple MU effort.

However, what happened on the MU level no doubt concerned the national campaign, so they took the rally over. When that happened I still did not not want to get involved because I knew how small the campaign staff was and is, and I was concerned they would not come through as RP became more popular and they became swamped. This too has come true and the national campaign deserves some blame here.

HOWEVER, what is done is done. The rally is in Valley Forge. If you are angry, let's vent it by making this a huge Valley Forge rally. What would are motivations be? Forgive and forget. If you are angry, funnel that anger into making this a huge event which will make the campaign regret not doing the Mall.

RP is getting some real bad press right now due to this botnet thing. Newspapers are saying all his supporters are bots. Yes, bots can't give $5.1 million in one quarter, but the press no doubt leaves that out of their articles.

WE NEED TO REGAIN MOMENTUM HERE AND GET POSITIVE! A strong turnout for the Nov. 5 money bomb and an overflow turnout at Valley Forge will still show the press (even if they don't write about it) that RP has REAL and ENTHUSASTIC supporters. At least it can help quell the current negative press.

Great YouTubes can still be made at the convention center and we can all truck over (and maybe RP can come over with us) to Valley Forge Park and get some great YouTubes in front of historic sights with tones of supporters and banners. Let's overflow Valley Forge. At the very least have voice, if not video, of RP's speech projected to an overflow crowd outside or somewhere else inside the convention center.

Let's get creative here and stop feeling sorry for ourselves or the most important thing - the message of Liberty and RP winning the campaign will never happen.

KewlRonduderules
11-02-2007, 07:21 AM
I was one of the original people involved in getting this rally going on this board after several board members came up with the idea. I also personally proposed the idea to the Philly MeetUp back in end of August when their Organizer was on vacation (I live in Philly) and they loved the idea.

None of this surprises me, and it is why I bailed on the Philly rally a ways back and decided to focus on NH. Infighting started between the MU-25 Organizer sand his Assistant Organizers, who all left MU-25 and formed MU-972 - which is the true grassroots Philly MeetUp that hits the streets, posts banners over highways, hits up the Dem. Debate at Drexel, etc.

This infighting soured me to the idea working. There is a lot of blame to go around here. IF the original Philly MU had been cohesive and IF the members on this board and that MU had run with this rally back in early September we would have raised the money and made this a huge event at the Mall. So, while we did everything we could to get this rally going early from a grassroots standpoint, it was stalled for a while in MU-25 which was given credit for winning the fundraising competition - even though it was a multiple MU effort.

However, what happened on the MU level no doubt concerned the national campaign, so they took the rally over. When that happened I still did not not want to get involved because I knew how small the campaign staff was and is, and I was concerned they would not come through as RP became more popular and they became swamped. This too has come true and the national campaign deserves some blame here.

HOWEVER, what is done is done. The rally is in Valley Forge. If you are angry, let's vent it by making this a huge Valley Forge rally. What would are motivations be? Forgive and forget. If you are angry, funnel that anger into making this a huge event which will make the campaign regret not doing the Mall.

RP is getting some real bad press right now due to this botnet thing. Newspapers are saying all his supporters are bots. Yes, bots can't give $5.1 million in one quarter, but the press no doubt leaves that out of their articles.

WE NEED TO REGAIN MOMENTUM HERE AND GET POSITIVE! A strong turnout for the Nov. 5 money bomb and an overflow turnout at Valley Forge will still show the press (even if they don't write about it) that RP has REAL and ENTHUSASTIC supporters. At least it can help quell the current negative press.

Great YouTubes can still be made at the convention center and we can all truck over (and maybe RP can come over with us) to Valley Forge Park and get some great YouTubes in front of historic sights with tones of supporters and banners. Let's overflow Valley Forge. At the very least have voice, if not video, of RP's speech projected to an overflow crowd outside or somewhere else inside the convention center.

Let's get creative here and stop feeling sorry for ourselves or the most important thing - the message of Liberty and RP winning the campaign will never happen.


When did the campaign take over?

Ridiculous
11-02-2007, 07:26 AM
Someone should let the campaign know that it is know that the convention center is not public transportation assessable.

I just checked SEPTA, the local bus and rail system, and it is a 25 minute walk from the nearest station:

http://airs1.septa.org/bin/query.exe/en?seqnr=1&ident=8x.08861.1194009686&OK#focus

Directions are from the planed area of the rally to the convention center.

Convention center site: http://www.vfconventioncenter.com/

tfelice
11-02-2007, 07:27 AM
When did the campaign take over?

When Paul is appearing somewhere it becomes an official event, and then they have no choice but to take over.

KewlRonduderules
11-02-2007, 07:32 AM
Ben,

I was the one who suggested I would use my 5th money for a day out with my wife. The point being that I wanted to voice what I thought could be a downside to the decision to move the Rally in an exaggerated manner to make my case. Hyperbole look it up.

You may want to just let the campaign do their jobs (I have heard the same sentiments about the current President), but I reserve the right to dissent with my words and my pocketbook. I am not “mad” but angry that the potential for a huge rally in a highly populated area has been downsized to an inconvenient venue.

Have a good day and enjoy the traffic on I-76 on the 10th.

John


Have you ever thought of the possibility that there is something else to this? The money thing alone just does not make complete sense. There is something else going on here. The problem is that people are focusing solely on the money issue.

You have every right to be angry and to feel disappointed. No one can argue with that but to suggest to others to with hold money in protest?! That really does no one favors and it just makes things worse.

Do you really want Dr. Paul as president? I know I do. I was hurt and upset. I cried going to bed last night but that does not mean I will withhold money.

If you think the moving of the rally was a bad move, then suggesting not donating on the 5th is a REALLY bad move! You just create apathy, animosity, and conflict.

In fact, I was going to split my donation between the 5th and the 11th. I think I am going to give more on the 5th just because of what you said. I'll donate $750 and $250 on the 11th.

Nefertiti
11-02-2007, 07:33 AM
That's simply untrue. For example, the campaign did not take over the Arab American Leadership Conference last week just because he was speaking at the event.

This was supposed to be a Liberty Rally with Ron Paul as a keynote speaker, one of many speakers. He could have simply been invited-the campaign did not need to get involved.

TexMac
11-02-2007, 07:34 AM
I really wonder how they plan to fill 3 hours up now, but that is their business now, not ours. So I am not really upset that much about the move as much as I am disappointed.

I still hope those in Philly who were involved in this just keep your original plans in mind and save them for a day next summer if we make it that far. Think of it not as cancelled or moved but just postponed.Where did this 3 hour thing come from? The campaign?

If so, it might be about what they did in Pittsburgh. There was one of those high-dollar fundraiser "briefing" things, then the rally that lasted about an hour, then RP signed stuff and shook hands and then everyone adjourned to a local restaurant and RP showed up there, spoke a little and met everyone. Same thing in Mountain View, except there they had a fundraiser before and after the rally. Those are the two rallies I've been to.

Nefertiti
11-02-2007, 07:37 AM
Do you really want Dr. Paul as president? I know I do. I was hurt and upset. I cried going to bed last night but that does not mean I will withhold money.



Don't be too upset. As far as I am concerned, money wasn't the primary reason that this shouldn't have gone forward, the fact that the campaign wasn't putting together a good lineup besides Ron Paul for the rally demonstrates to me that they did not have the manpower to put this thing together as it should have been put together.

Nefertiti
11-02-2007, 07:38 AM
Where did this 3 hour thing come from? The campaign?

If so, it might be about what they did in Pittsburgh. There was one of those high-dollar fundraiser "briefing" things, then the rally that lasted about an hour, then RP signed stuff and shook hands and then everyone adjourned to a local restaurant and RP showed up there, spoke a little and met everyone. Same thing in Mountain View, except there they had a fundraiser before and after the rally. Those are the two rallies I've been to.

It was supposed to be AT LEAST 3 hours, as planned by the grassroots. There were going to be lots of speakers, I think even some had committed, perhaps musical entertainment, a reading of the Declaration of Independence, etc.

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 07:44 AM
tmg 19103, Is there a meeting tomorrow with HQ? You may not be able to comment... If things are as they stand currently, why not look at the current situation and parley it into a event that will "kick ass" on what the campaign would have done, even with the "Mall." Ive suggested large screen with a stage and bands outside or very close to the 2000 seat venue... People on this board have already offered their services in aid of this... Why should it be so difficult with all our resources, and passion to turn this around and make it even better? Start generating some input and creative thinking, and let's " Johnny Rotten" the Holy shit out of this!

uncloned21
11-02-2007, 07:49 AM
Has anyone considered that it may be that there is a growing concern for Dr. Paul's safety?

allyinoh
11-02-2007, 07:52 AM
Has anyone considered that it may be that there is a growing concern for Dr. Paul's safety?

I never thought about that but...


I'm a little put off by the actions of some people on here. Okay I know it takes a lot of planning but it isn't canceled. It was moved. Big deal. Seriously, some people are acting like it's the end of the world.

Wherever there were fliers sent out, get someone out to those places to spread the word that the venue has changed, have people at the mall with a shuttle to get them to the new venue and back or to give directions for the people who would drive themselves.

People you have got to learn that "when life gives you lemons you make lemonade."

I just think it's so petty to sit around and bitch about a location change. The rally is still happening and people just need to make sure whatever they do that people are informed.

Sematary
11-02-2007, 07:55 AM
I never thought about that but...


I'm a little put off by the actions of some people on here. Okay I know it takes a lot of planning but it isn't canceled. It was moved. Big deal. Seriously, some people are acting like it's the end of the world.

Wherever there were fliers sent out, get someone out to those places to spread the word that the venue has changed, have people at the mall with a shuttle to get them to the new venue and back or to give directions for the people who would drive themselves.

People you have got to learn that "when life gives you lemons you make lemonade."

I just think it's so petty to sit around and bitch about a location change. The rally is still happening and people just need to make sure whatever they do that people are informed.

You think it's that easy, huh?
tens of thousands of fliers were distributed all over Philadelphia over a period of weeks. How, in a week, is this supposed to be undone? Should the people who shelled out hundreds of dollars of their own money to promote the event now shell out hundreds of dollars MORE to fix this?

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 07:56 AM
Has anyone considered that it may be that there is a growing concern for Dr. Paul's safety?

For Gods sake! Are you guys all all older than me (49) or are you mommies boys! I'm sure Walt is going to pipe up any minute and tell everyone to go to New Hampshire! Where's the hudspah!

KewlRonduderules
11-02-2007, 07:57 AM
Don't be too upset. As far as I am concerned, money wasn't the primary reason that this shouldn't have gone forward, the fact that the campaign wasn't putting together a good lineup besides Ron Paul for the rally demonstrates to me that they did not have the manpower to put this thing together as it should have been put together.


Today is a new day. I am fine. Whoever said I was still upset? What is done is done. Deal with it and move on.

;)

As for the reasons for the cancellation, lack of manpower? Maybe, but something tells me some one or some entity/group threw a wrench in there to sabotage things. Call me a conspiracist but this does not add up.

regardless what I think, let's focus on Valley Forge.

:)

thehittgirl
11-02-2007, 08:02 AM
Have you ever thought of the possibility that there is something else to this? The money thing alone just does not make complete sense. There is something else going on here. The problem is that people are focusing solely on the money issue.

You have every right to be angry and to feel disappointed. No one can argue with that but to suggest to others to with hold money in protest?! That really does no one favors and it just makes things worse.

Do you really want Dr. Paul as president? I know I do. I was hurt and upset. I cried going to bed last night but that does not mean I will withhold money.

If you think the moving of the rally was a bad move, then suggesting not donating on the 5th is a REALLY bad move! You just create apathy, animosity, and conflict.

In fact, I was going to split my donation between the 5th and the 11th. I think I am going to give more on the 5th just because of what you said. I'll donate $750 and $250 on the 11th.

My boys and I call ourselves the passionate patriots. You sound like you belong in our club :)

I agree with you.....

As I was leaving a friend's house, I told her I STILL believe no one else is qualified to lead our country but Ron.

If I was still angry, I probably wouldn't have withdrawn my VOTE, but just support(continued physical work). This is just a setback is all. A test. If we are strong, we'll get back up on our feet.

BizmanUSA
11-02-2007, 08:02 AM
OK who is willing to step up and be leader of the pack for this NEW outdoor rally in Valley Forge?

Can it be done? ABSOLUTELY - But it will be a nut buster to pull it off and some serious supporters willing to put their hard earned dollars where their mouths (or keyboard strokes) are and organize something F A S T!!

I have access to all the equipment one could possibly need but the Vendors for this equipment need to be booked pronto - which means a deposit of cash (credit cards, etc) dollars down.

As previously mentioned I have access to a large (9' x 16') LED Video screen truck package that is ideal for such a throw together situation BUT it takes $$$ to make it happen. I got a rate that is less than 1/2 of the going rate!

Who is the first (2nd and so on) person to step up? If you do not want to go public then PM me and we can talk.

BizmanUSA


tmg 19103, Is there a meeting tomorrow with HQ? You may not be able to comment... If things are as they stand currently, why not look at the current situation and parley it into a event that will "kick ass" on what the campaign would have done, even with the "Mall." Ive suggested large screen with a stage and bands outside or very close to the 2000 seat venue... People on this board have already offered their services in aid of this... Why should it be so difficult with all our resources, and passion to turn this around and make it even better? Start generating some input and creative thinking, and let's " Johnny Rotten" the Holy shit out of this!

LibertyEagle
11-02-2007, 08:04 AM
tmg 19103, Is there a meeting tomorrow with HQ? You may not be able to comment... If things are as they stand currently, why not look at the current situation and parley it into a event that will "kick ass" on what the campaign would have done, even with the "Mall." Ive suggested large screen with a stage and bands outside or very close to the 2000 seat venue... People on this board have already offered their services in aid of this... Why should it be so difficult with all our resources, and passion to turn this around and make it even better? Start generating some input and creative thinking, and let's " Johnny Rotten" the Holy shit out of this!

What a wonderful idea, Oz.

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 08:04 AM
You think it's that easy, huh?
tens of thousands of fliers were distributed all over Philadelphia over a period of weeks. How, in a week, is this supposed to be undone? Should the people who shelled out hundreds of dollars of their own money to promote the event now shell out hundreds of dollars MORE to fix this?

I would never be able to comprehend how pissed off and jaded you must feel right now Semetary. If you don't think this is worth a second chance, I yield the floor to your opinion. You're the Man.

allyinoh
11-02-2007, 08:10 AM
You think it's that easy, huh?
tens of thousands of fliers were distributed all over Philadelphia over a period of weeks. How, in a week, is this supposed to be undone? Should the people who shelled out hundreds of dollars of their own money to promote the event now shell out hundreds of dollars MORE to fix this?

No, I don't think it's that easy. It will be tough, but it can be done. If I truly wanted something to happen, I wouldn't let a little road bump take me off course. You put a lot of time into this, I understand, but shit happens, things change.

LibertyEagle
11-02-2007, 08:14 AM
No, I don't think it's that easy. It will be tough, but it can be done. If I truly wanted something to happen, I wouldn't let a little road bump take me off course. You put a lot of time into this, I understand, but shit happens, things change.

Ally, the way you're saying this is belittling to those who poured their heart and soul into this event for MONTHS. It took a lot for it to get to the point it was before the campaign took it over. Yes, we all must do our best to regroup, but please do not act like it is a simple thing to do so. It's not. I venture to say that if YOU had been the one leading this effort, you would be referring to what has happened as much more than a "little road bump".

I frankly am amazed at those, like Sematary, who have so quickly adapted to make this new venue a success. I have said it before and I will say it again, he deserves a medal for all he's done and the attitude he's shown.

BizmanUSA
11-02-2007, 08:19 AM
I would never be able to comprehend how pissed off and jaded you must feel right now Semetary. If you don't think this is worth a second chance, I yield the floor to your opinion. You're the Man.

Ditto - Sematary want to try it again in Valley Forge just to show HQ we can do it?

Anybody out there game for the idea?

So let's pound on whoever at HQ to supply charter buses to/from Inde Park to Valley Forge CC - it would take probably 20 buses min at 4-5 trips each to cover the crowd. HQ will still save THOUSANDS of dollars transporting the RP rally supporters than holding it at Inde Park Mall (min 40 per bus x 20 x 4 = 3200)
Now that would be cool!

BUT we must move ULTRA FAST!

BizmanUSA

Sematary
11-02-2007, 08:21 AM
Ditto - Sematary want to try it again in Valley Forge just to show HQ we can do it?

Anybody out there game for the idea?

So let's pound on whoever at HQ to supply charter buses to/from Inde Park to Valley Forge CC - it would take probably 20 buses min at 4-5 trips each to cover the crowd. HQ will still save THOUSANDS of dollars transporting the RP rally supporters than holding it at Inde Park Mall (min 40 per bus x 20 x 4 = 3200)
Now that would be cool!

BUT we must move ULTRA FAST!

BizmanUSA

According to Libertyeagle, the campaign will be providing transportation to the event from the Mall site. We could definitely use confirmation of this with times of when the shuttles will begin running, how many, etc...

Sematary
11-02-2007, 08:23 AM
I would never be able to comprehend how pissed off and jaded you must feel right now Semetary. If you don't think this is worth a second chance, I yield the floor to your opinion. You're the Man.

I absolutely am pushing to make this event a HUGE SUCCESS! I don't care that I believe the decision makers at HQ made a huge mistake on this decision - this campaign has ALWAYS been about the grassroots and we, the grassroots, have to make this an unmitigated success in spite of the HQ's inability to see the bigger picture!

LibertyEagle
11-02-2007, 08:23 AM
According to Libertyeagle, the campaign will be providing transportation to the event from the Mall site. We could definitely use confirmation of this with times of when the shuttles will begin running, how many, etc...

I called them about this, this morning and asked why it wasn't put in the announcement. As I recall, the guy said they are finalizing those plans and when they're all nailed down, they will announce them.

It still is my understanding that there will be shuttle buses.

Sematary
11-02-2007, 08:24 AM
I called them about this, this morning and asked why it wasn't put in the announcement. As I recall, the guy said they are finalizing those plans and when they're all nailed down, they will announce them.

It still is my understanding that there will be shuttle buses.

Can you push for more info? How many? Schedules? Actual departure points? Things like that?

BizmanUSA
11-02-2007, 08:26 AM
According to Libertyeagle, the campaign will be providing transportation to the event from the Mall site. We could definitely use confirmation of this with times of when the shuttles will begin running, how many, etc...

No slight to Libertyeagle and HQ but at this point I (and many others) will only believe it when I (we) see it on the Ron Paul 2008 campaign website with the where & when to back it up! :eek:

BizmanUSA

gjdavis60
11-02-2007, 08:28 AM
The VF Convention Center is adjacent to several office parks, so there is lots of available parking within a short walk. Valley Forge is easier to get to than downtown Philly (right off the PA Turnpike), and is within a 2 hour drive from New York and Washington.

I think everyone should come, and I mean EVERYONE. So what if we don't get inside? Give Dr. Paul a bullhorn and we're good to go!!

thehittgirl
11-02-2007, 08:30 AM
The VF Convention Center is adjacent to several office parks, so there is lots of available parking within a short walk. Valley Forge is easier to get to than downtown Philly (right off the PA Turnpike), and is within a 2 hour drive from New York and Washington.

I think everyone should come, and I mean EVERYONE. So what if we don't get inside? Give Dr. Paul a bullhorn and we're good to go!!

If the kid can just get a glimpse of RP, I'll be happy.

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 08:38 AM
If Semetary is behind this, some of you "movers and shakers" should back him 100%. It would be a travesty if any "mamby pamby" shit got in the way of his and our second wind... Time is short, people are tilting, it's time for a bit of discipline and focus...

BizmanUSA
11-02-2007, 08:39 AM
My comment below on the charter buses is for the thousands of college and other supporters who do not have access to a car or the planning to get a ride to the VF Convention Center.


The VF Convention Center is adjacent to several office parks, so there is lots of available parking within a short walk. Valley Forge is easier to get to than downtown Philly (right off the PA Turnpike), and is within a 2 hour drive from New York and Washington.

I think everyone should come, and I mean EVERYONE. So what if we don't get inside? Give Dr. Paul a bullhorn and we're good to go!!



Originally Posted by Sematary
According to Libertyeagle, the campaign will be providing transportation to the event from the Mall site. We could definitely use confirmation of this with times of when the shuttles will begin running, how many, etc...

BizmanUSA



No slight to Libertyeagle and HQ but at this point I (and many others) will only believe it when I (we) see it on the Ron Paul 2008 campaign website with the where & when to back it up!

BizmanUSA

MsDoodahs
11-02-2007, 08:41 AM
I absolutely am pushing to make this event a HUGE SUCCESS! I don't care that I believe the decision makers at HQ made a huge mistake on this decision - this campaign has ALWAYS been about the grassroots and we, the grassroots, have to make this an unmitigated success

THAT is the attitude!

I KNEW that the Ron Paul people aren't the people who sit in the corner and whine over their misfortunes for long.

We're movers and shakers.

We MAKE things happen.

Look at what we have done thus far!

WE CAN DO THIS WE CAN DO THIS WE CAN DO THIS!

Cheerleading session over. :o

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 08:47 AM
THAT is the attitude!

I KNEW that the Ron Paul people aren't the people who sit in the corner and whine over their misfortunes for long.

We're movers and shakers.

We MAKE things happen.

Look at what we have done thus far!

WE CAN DO THIS WE CAN DO THIS WE CAN DO THIS!

Cheerleading session over. :o

Do you remember the thread from yesterday? There were a couple of helpful contacts there. I think you asked someone from the entertainment industry to stay in touch. Do you recall?

MsDoodahs
11-02-2007, 08:48 AM
First things first.

What is the plan for the original venue?

What is the FINANCIAL IMPACT to the grassroots to have something simultaneous happening at the original venue?

Depending on the answer to the FINANCIAL IMPACT QUESTION...

If shuttles are provided, does the grassroots focus on moving bodies to the new venue?

Or, is there a desire to have some sort of simultaneous event happening at the original venue?

MsDoodahs
11-02-2007, 08:50 AM
Do you remember the thread from yesterday? There were a couple of helpful contacts there. I think you asked someone from the entertainment industry to stay in touch. Do you recall?

Yep, he said he'd be checking back in for PMs and other messages. That's a few pages back in this thread.
:)

drexhex
11-02-2007, 08:52 AM
I have to admit - I did lose hope for a little while there. I felt my emotions towards the RP campaign transform from surprise and then to anger, apathy, acceptance, and finally I got a "second wind." I realize that if, even with the change in location and potentially tens of thousands of people showing up at the mall, we can pull this off, it would really tell what kind of support President Paul has.

When I was at the Democratic debate at Drexel, we were drowned out by Hillary and Obama supporters at the 5PM Hardball. Then we found out the three to four people who had the homemade sign and who didn't give up were able to get TV time. That caused a spark in the rest of us, and people who saw it on TV at the college ended up coming down just to show their support for President Paul. At the 7PM we had between 10 and 20 signs, and got on TV a lot more, even though we were still being inundated with Hitlery (err I mean Hillary) signs.

As you all saw after the debate, we were able to completely take over all Hillary and Obama supporters and cover almost the entire screen for Hardball. In fact, there weren't that many (2 or 3?) Hillary/Obama supporters there after the debate (payroll over?), but it still spoke to our dedication and unfaltering support for President Paul.

If we can take over coverage for a Democratic debate on live TV on a college campus with hundreds of people in the crowd, we can make this work. We can fill Valley Forge, and we can get the media's attention. We were able to bounce back at the debate, let's bounce back now.

BizmanUSA
11-02-2007, 09:00 AM
Just got a call from the Inde Park services coordinator and they are somewhat concerned about the many people who are going to show up to see no rally.

I advised the posted word on the forums site was that charter buses would be transporting to the VFCC site but I did not have any HQ confirmation to confirm that.

HQ needs to step up to the plate real fast & post something on the campaign website ASAP or sooner!

Even the INHP people were expecting this to happen BIG Time!

BizmanUSA

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 09:03 AM
I know diddly squat, but I reckon this scenario, march in city, buses to Valley Forge continuosly, so people who want to listen to "live bands" at Valley Forge all day long can do so. They will be contacting their friends "telling them the free Ron Paul concert rocks." Large screen outside venue so "overflow" are involved, this will make for good headlines from the media... After Rally, everyone heads into town to march and club... Something about riding on a bus, gets people motivated to MARCH!

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 09:18 AM
There's some good ideas here. How about some of you battle scarred Warriors raise your swords once again and turn defeat into victory... You love it!

Spirit of '76
11-02-2007, 09:24 AM
I'm a little put off by the actions of some people on here. Okay I know it takes a lot of planning but it isn't canceled. It was moved. Big deal. Seriously, some people are acting like it's the end of the world.


It's not just that the venue was changed. The entire nature of the event was changed.

It was supposed to be THE giant Ron Paul rally in a historical place in the middle of a major urban area that would expose thousands of new people to his message. Now, it's just an average Ron Paul rally in a suburban convention center where only the faithful will gather to hear Ron preach to the choir.




Just got a call from the Inde Park services coordinator and they are somewhat concerned about the many people who are going to show up to see no rally

. . .

Even the INHP people were expecting this to happen BIG Time!


Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

iskimtsnow
11-02-2007, 09:30 AM
Jumbotron at Independence mall to broadcast Dr. Paul’s speech so at least a few thousand non RP supporters will hear the message. Maybe as a part of the Veterans rally? Making Lemonade

Sematary
11-02-2007, 09:32 AM
Jumbotron at Independence mall to broadcast Dr. Paul’s speech so at least a few thousand non RP supporters will hear the message. Maybe as a part of the Veterans rally? Making Lemonade

We have no event insurance and it is too late to get it. With only a week, not much can be done.

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 09:35 AM
Yeah but 76, think how good it would feel if the Grass Roots could get together and make this a Ron Paul Rockfest. We are in charge of anything outside of the convention center. We can fund it. We can do anything we decide to do in the next 10 days. Be a part of it! Tomorrow is a new day...

jgmaynard
11-02-2007, 09:50 AM
Surprisingly, the move would actually make me want to go MORE. My partner and I love to tour battlefields, and although we've both been to VF, neither of us have been there for years. I would be more interested in being there than in inner Philly, but that's just how we would feel. Just a thought.

JM

Sematary
11-02-2007, 09:52 AM
Surprisingly, the move would actually make me want to go MORE. My partner and I love to tour battlefields, and although we've both been to VF, neither of us have been there for years. I would be more interested in being there than in inner Philly, but that's just how we would feel. Just a thought.

JM

Well, there COULD be an offset

MsDoodahs
11-02-2007, 10:02 AM
Surprisingly, the move would actually make me want to go MORE. My partner and I love to tour battlefields, and although we've both been to VF, neither of us have been there for years. I would be more interested in being there than in inner Philly, but that's just how we would feel. Just a thought.

JM

I just realized that they moved it to a battlefield setting.

How appropriate!

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 10:09 AM
Keep your powder dry! Three thousand-six hundred acres of National Park. Time for a turkey shoot!

thehittgirl
11-02-2007, 10:10 AM
Surprisingly, the move would actually make me want to go MORE. My partner and I love to tour battlefields, and although we've both been to VF, neither of us have been there for years. I would be more interested in being there than in inner Philly, but that's just how we would feel. Just a thought.

JM

We actually had plans to go to Valley Forge the next day for the son's birthday which is right on the 11th. We take the boys to historical places a lot.

jgmaynard
11-02-2007, 10:12 AM
We actually had plans to go to Valley Forge the next day for the son's birthday which is right on the 11th. We take the boys to historical places a lot.

That's great - I know someone who is a homeschooler, and she brought her daughter to see the Liberty Bell, and there was all kinds of security, ID checks, etc. Her daughter (maybe 11?) turned to her and said "This shouldn't be happening HERE, should it?" :D

JM

Ozwest
11-02-2007, 10:32 AM
thehittgirl, I respected your thread and posts today. A decision made from the heart in a volatile environment. You are courageous.

Primbs
11-02-2007, 01:12 PM
A photo shoot of Ron Paul "Defender of the Constitution" outside of Independence Hall would be priceless.

Wasn't the main point to dramatize Ron Paul at Independence Hall to go along with all the campaign material that have already been produced at this point.

Isn't this one of the main focuses of the campaign, to get back to reading the constitution, the founding fathers etc?

thehittgirl
11-02-2007, 01:20 PM
thehittgirl, I respected your thread and posts today. A decision made from the heart in a volatile environment. You are courageous.


Thank you. I felt bad for blowing up, but I'm human..:)

mika813
11-02-2007, 01:24 PM
Hi Everybody,
I would like to start by saying thank you to all those folks who have worked so hard to get this off the ground and promoted this! It is universally agreed that the Independence Mall location was the bomb, and I too was a bit disappointed when the venue was changed because of its historical significance.

Why was it changed? Because of money, well what isn't being said? I can only speculate to this, but if I was able to “twist an arm” to get someone to pay over priced cost and rates I would wait until they had some pretty good investments made into a plan/location so that it would be costly and severely damage their efforts if any changes to the plan/location are made. Now I've got them by the “short hairs” and can make demands that might be construed as extortion. Now the Campaign can not come out and make claims that they are being manipulated or extorted, all they can hope for is that if they make a stand on principle and do not give in, the support for the man and his message will not be so fickle and “fair weather” that we would jump ship. Was the Rally for the Mall or the Man? So, maybe something behind the scenes punched us in the face, did that knock us out? Will we let their tactics beat us?

I've been to two “rallies” for Hillary and Barrack promoting Dr. Paul, and one thing I like to point out to the people waiting to see those other candidates is how they are charging them for access just like they do with the lobbyist and call it a “fund raiser.” Then I brag about how Dr. Paul speaks to the people for free (as it should be) and if you agree with his message then he asks for your support, and one way but not the only way, is a monetary donation. I have to smile when I see “Sematary” make statements that continue to support the rally despite the venue change. He gets it. I hope we all do! I look forward to meeting everyone in Valley Forge, another historically significant local to the first American Revolution, the place where Washington's rag tag Army nearly dissolved, a few dedicated patriots stayed on and saved the cause. Will we do the same? I will!

tfelice
11-02-2007, 01:26 PM
A photo shoot of Ron Paul "Defender of the Constitution" outside of Independence Hall would be priceless.

Wasn't the main point to dramatize Ron Paul at Independence Hall to go along with all the campaign material that have already been produced at this point.

Isn't this one of the main focuses of the campaign, to get back to reading the constitution, the founding fathers etc?

While it would have been nice to be in Philly, those from outside of the area have no idea what a colossal pain in the neck the city & the unions can be. The way I see it, is they didn't want a rally of 10,000 + people there (security, cleanup, traffic, etc) so they stick a huge price tag on it and make it near impossible to pull off.

Deadwing
11-02-2007, 02:38 PM
So let's pound on whoever at HQ to supply charter buses to/from Inde Park to Valley Forge CC - it would take probably 20 buses min at 4-5 trips each to cover the crowd. HQ will still save THOUSANDS of dollars transporting the RP rally supporters than holding it at Inde Park Mall (min 40 per bus x 20 x 4 = 3200)

BizmanUSA

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see this rally drawing anywhere near 3200. Just chalk it up to years and years of experience with these things, but hey, maybe I'm getting old and I truly don't know anything. However, if I was planning on attending this rally and didn't know much about it I would certainly check a few websites the day of or day before just to make certain it was happening. The thought that 3200 will show up at Independence Mall with no clue the rally has been moved really is hard to believe. I'd love to just go to Independence Mall myself to see if I'm right, but I'll be in Valley Forge.

BizmanUSA
11-02-2007, 04:42 PM
I hope I'm wrong but I don't see this rally drawing anywhere near 3200. Just chalk it up to years and years of experience with these things, but hey, maybe I'm getting old and I truly don't know anything. However, if I was planning on attending this rally and didn't know much about it I would certainly check a few websites the day of or day before just to make certain it was happening. The thought that 3200 will show up at Independence Mall with no clue the rally has been moved really is hard to believe. I'd love to just go to Independence Mall myself to see if I'm right, but I'll be in Valley Forge.

We had about 2 weeks notice for the Pittsbugh Rally and the campaign indicated that they would be happy with 400 - 500. With a little bit of serious grassroots effort we got a minimum of 1200+ to show. The hotel had to expand the meeting room twice!

The Philly crew has busted some serious tail and pounded every place in the region plus all the PA Meetups spreading the HUGE Rally word around for a 6-8 weeks if not more.

I'd be rather shocked not to see more than few thousand show up scratching there heads

Seeing that Philly has appprox. 4 times what Pittsburgh has for population plus pulling for the NY, NJ, DE & MD I would easily see 5K do a mall day. :cool:


On another note:
As for blaming the city/state/feds not wanting a rally this size, well this is true bunk! Just about every man, woman and child who would come to this rally is going spend money for food, drink, maybe shop and sleep over somewhere bringing in tax revenue and bringing business to the local and regional merchants.

BizmanUSA