USA Armed forces have largest single day loss

[cindy25]

31 USA, 7 Afghan puppet gov killed in chopper crash

if Ron Paul was president this would not have happened

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_AFGHANISTAN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-08-06-06-27-19

[acptulsa]

And the best part is it's probably all due to either a contractor doing substandard work or poor maintenance. Yeah, these people around the world are such a threat to us. Hell, the Osprey killed more service people during the time they were developing it than all the nations of the earth combined.

We are truly our own worst enemy.

[HOLLYWOOD]

V-22 OsPREY or OhPRAY?

It's disgusting how these politicians in Washington DC steal our money and give it to their district's Military Industrial Complex businesses, for more of what the military doesn't need or want. V-22, Chinooks, the C-17, etc etc... Congressman to DOD military, "Well General/Admiral, if you don't take more of these Ospreys or C-17s, whatever, you will not be in line for that 2nd, 3rd, 4th, star on your shoulder board and recommend retirement". in some sort of corrupt way.

All to get these same Capital Hill scumbags elected and re-elected term after term. I never forget last months DOD debate... and those democratic Boeing Clown representatives from Washington state. Democrats oppose all cuts to WAR, then the GOP guy goes, "look, it's not cutting any money out of Iraq or Afghanistan funding, it's out of the DOD's next years general budget." The Democrat goes, Well That Even Worse!"

I believe it was Norman Dicks (D-WA) and/or McDermott

[pacelli]

Its a damned shame, if the president had followed through with his campaign promises these servicemen&women would still be alive.

[acptulsa]

Pretty much. The only reason for the Osprey's existence in the first place is military infighting. Seriously. The Air Force says the Army can't have airplanes and can only have helicopters, so the Marines, which needs helicopters as much as the Army does for the obvious reason that they pretty much do the exact same damned thing, wants to lord it over the Army that they can have airplanes and the Army can't, so they spend trillions and sacrifice countless lives to accidents trying to come up with an aircraft that looks like an airplane, and is classified as an airplane, but does what a helicopter does.

Only the U.S. government could produce a clusterfart like that.

[flightlesskiwi]

I live near a base that has cv-22s . Loudest pieces of sh!t you'll ever hear. Except maybe the b-1 (yeah yeah, different purpose). nope, it's louder. So much for stealthy type insertions.

Anyway, this incident will only add fuel to the imperial fire and " strengthen" the "resolve".

[cindy25]

the buck stops with the president; if that helicopter was in the USA as it should have been it would not have been shot down.

and this was the team that killed Bin Laden.

[liberalnurse]

the buck stops with the president; if that helicopter was in the USA as it should have been it would not have been shot down.

and this was the team that killed Bin Laden.

Now we'll never know if it was Bin Laden, will we? :(

[Philhelm]

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) -- A military helicopter was shot down in eastern Afghanistan, killing 31 U.S. special operation troops, most of them from the elite Navy SEALs unit that killed al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden, along with seven Afghan commandos. It was the deadliest single incident for American forces in the decade-long war.

Wow...that seems suspicious...

[flightlesskiwi]

Now we'll never know if it was Bin Laden, will we? :(

seems a bit odd, though. Bin Laden dead, team that killed Bin Laden dead a few months later.

not sayin', just sayin'.

[VBRonPaulFan]

A bunch of us thought/think that the whole bin laden getting killed story was bullshit, right? Isn't it pretty coincidental that the people that could eventually come out and say the entire story was bullshit all get killed in a helicopter incident? Seems pretty convenient to me.

[VBRonPaulFan]

seems a bit odd, though. Bin Laden dead, team that killed Bin Laden dead a few months later.

not sayin', just sayin'.

beat me to it.

[Anti Federalist]

seems a bit odd, though. Bin Laden dead, team that killed Bin Laden dead a few months later.

not sayin', just sayin'.

Oh, I'll say it.

The only witnesses were just taken out, the last loose ends stitched up. Plausible deniability in the form of dead bodies.

That's how the regime "rolls". Dead men tell no tales.

They'll kill anybody in a heartbeat, me or you, if it furthers the goal, and that includes their own operators.

[Anti Federalist]

Meanwhile, over at The Blaze, this comment on the story jumped out at me.

I'm pretty sure this is not sarcasm.


techengineer11
Posted on August 6, 2011 at 9:33am

Secret Squirrel: Not a time for weakness .Not a time to turn our backs on all the progress which we have made in the Middle East. It’s time to hunker down strengthening our resolve for the total victory. We need all Americans to dig into their wallets and really pray about what the Lord would have you give “extra” in support of this War. It’s time to double down. Go the extra mile. Victory is in sight! We’ve almost won in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Now is not the time to turn back or all our investment will be for naught! Anyone that speaks out against these crucial Wars at this time which are absolutely necessary to protect the Homeland and preserve our Constitution; thereby protecting our Liberties and freedoms is an enemy of America. They are against the Red White and Blue. Traitors! They’re weak. Freedom isn’t free! We need real men. Brave men that realize only through strength and War will our Constitution and freedoms survive. Support our TROOPS!!!! Victory at all Costs! Stand up and be strong. We must win. Retreat is not an option!

[HOLLYWOOD]

Sad, more death... 3 more NATO Troops die in attack in eastern Afghanistan. Officials are not revealing whether those killed were American or French, though 99% of the troops in the eastern region of Afghanistan are American.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/08/04/idINIndia-58619520110804?feedType=RSS&feedName=southAsiaNews

(Reuters) - A NATO service member was killed in an apparent "rogue" shooting by a man dressed as an Afghan policeman on Thursday, the coalition said, at least the fourth to be killed in a bloody 24 hours in one of Afghanistan's most volatile areas.
With violence flaring across the country after the first phase of a security transition began last month, an Afghan security official was also killed by a car bomb in northern Kunduz, officials said.

In a brief statement, the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) said the latest killing came when "an individual wearing an Afghan National Police uniform turned his weapon against the service member".
It said ISAF and Afghan officials were investigating but gave no other details.

Most of the NATO forces serving in the east, where a fractured and violent insurgency has developed over the past 18 months, are American, although there are also French troops in the area.

The killing of the ISAF member was the latest in a string of apparent "rogue" killings by Afghan police and soldiers, or by insurgent infiltrators.
Such killings have underscored the challenges ahead as NATO scrambles to hand security responsibility to Afghan forces across the country by the end of 2014. The first phase of that process began last month.

In the same statement, ISAF said another service member had been killed in a separate attack by insurgents in the east on Thursday. Again, no further details were available.
Late on Wednesday, ISAF also said another two of its troops had been killed by a roadside bomb. At least six ISAF troops have been killed so far in August, mirroring a steady, year-long trend of intensifying violence.

In the west, four Italian soldiers were wounded by a roadside bomb while they were on patrol south of Herat, a major trading hub near the border with Iran, the Italian military in Rome said. ISAF in Kabul confirmed there had been an explosion which wounded an unspecified number of troops.

DEADLY TREND
In 2010, violence across Afghanistan was its worst since the Taliban were ousted by U.S.-backed Afghan forces in late 2001, with civilian and military casualties at record levels.
A total of 711 foreign troops were killed in 2010, the deadliest year of the war for the coalition, and at least 340 have been killed so far this year, according to independent monitor www.icasualties.org (http://www.icasualties.org) and figures kept by Reuters.

U.S. and European military commanders have claimed significant success against Taliban insurgents in the south over the past 18 months, mainly with the help of an additional 30,000 U.S. troops deployed in the Taliban's southern heartland to fight a growing insurgency.

However the Taliban and other insurgents have shown an alarming ability to adapt their tactics and shift the focus of their attacks out of the south into the east and the once relatively peaceful north and west.

Thursday's car bomb in northern Kunduz came two days after suicide attackers killed four security guards at a guesthouse in the city used by foreigners.
Three children were also wounded by the blast from a bomb planted in the car of Payenda Khan, a district head for the National Directorate of Security in Kunduz city, said Sayed Sarwar Husaini, a spokesman for the provincial policeman.
Husaini had earlier said Khan was head of the National Directorate of Security in Kunduz province, but later said he had been given incorrect information.
There has been a series of high-profile attacks and assassinations in the north in the past couple of years as insurgents seek to demonstrate their reach beyond their traditional southern heartland.

The police chief of north Afghanistan, General Dawood Dawood, was assassinated in late May by a massive bomb in Takhar province that also killed the Takhar police chief.
In June, a suicide bomber killed at least four policemen at a memorial service for Dawood in Kunduz. The attack appeared to target the police chief of Kunduz province, Sameullah Qatra, whose predecessor was killed by a suicide bomber in March.

(Reporting by Mohammad Hamid in Kunduz, Deepa Babington in Rome and Kabul bureau; Writing by Paul Tait; Editing by Daniel Magnowski)

[flightlesskiwi]

Meanwhile, over at The Blaze, this comment on the story jumped out at me.


this is not surprising to me. but still::eek::mad::mad::mad:

@$#%$#^%$#&^%$&%$^#^%@%$@#!!

i'm so $%&&^% tired of these ^(*&(*(& neocons!!!!

i lost it for a moment.

[james1844]

Some things to consider:

1) Those SEALS had wives, children and families. Its also important to recognize that they gave their lives in service to their country. Its hard to ask more than that from anyone.

2) There isn't much mystery about what happened. There isn't a big conspiracy, or any guys smoking cigars in the backroom of some washington club that caused their death. Instead, they were deployed to a combat zone and their number was finally up.

The truth is that the SEALs have been killing the Taliban as fast as they can find them, but sometimes, like in all wars, the enemy gets you first. Whats been happening in Afghanistan is that the Army or special forces, or whoever, will chopper into a location to find some bad guys. But often the Taliban have spotters at the high points around the valley, so they can get some advance warning when helicopters are coming in. This means that the Talibs can get 5 or 10 minutes notification, which is enough time to hide, organize an ambush, or whatever.

No conspiracy, just war.

Best,

James

[pcosmar]

this is not surprising to me. but still::eek::mad::mad::mad:

@$#%$#^%$#&^%$&%$^#^%@%$@#!!

i'm so $%&&^% tired of these ^(*&(*(& neocons!!!!

i lost it for a moment.

Understandable. Similar reaction here.
The Gene Pool needs a good cleaning.
:(

[pcosmar]

Some things to consider:



Considered, analyzed,,
And Rejected.

[Rothbardian Girl]

Meanwhile, over at The Blaze, this comment on the story jumped out at me.

I'm pretty sure this is not sarcasm.

I'm sure he feels fine and dandy sitting on his ass at his computer typing that.

[Anti Federalist]

Considered, analyzed,,
And Rejected.

Seconded.

If it had just been a random number of soldiers on a random mission, I'd be inclined to agree and say it was just a war loss.

To kill off the entire team that supposedly killed bin Laden (which I don't believe for a second actually happened) is, from an actuarial perspective, impossible.

This one stinks to high heaven from the second I read it, without any further consideration I'm willing to call foul.

Dead men tell no tales.

[Yieu]

Seconded.

If it had just been a random number of soldiers on a random mission, I'd be inclined to agree and say it was just a war loss.

To kill off the entire team that supposedly killed bin Laden (which I don't believe for a second actually happened) is, from an actuarial perspective, impossible.

This one stinks to high heaven from the second I read it, without any further consideration I'm willing to call foul.

Dead men tell no tales.

Indeed, the coincidence theory is statistically improbable. This has motive and plausible deniability written all over it.

I'm surprised they even let us know those particular individuals aren't alive anymore, because that leaves room for suspicion.

[IPSecure]

With all of the bs coming from the msm, I'm beginning to wonder if team 6 even existed, and then if it really crashed...
(I hope not.)

Either way, the war card is in play...

[liberalnurse]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ap-sources-navy-seals-from-unit-that-killed-bin-laden-among-those-lost-in-helicopter-crash/2011/08/06/gIQAbRTcyI_story.html
Now saying the ones killed in the crash were not the ones involved in the Bin Laden raid. ??

[RideTheDirt]

now it wasn't them
hmmmm

[Anti Federalist]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ap-sources-navy-seals-from-unit-that-killed-bin-laden-among-those-lost-in-helicopter-crash/2011/08/06/gIQAbRTcyI_story.html
Now saying the ones killed in the crash were not the ones involved in the Bin Laden raid. ??

Since the actual names of the team are supposed to be uber classified, I suppose we'll never know for sure now.

I suspect the initial reports probably came from people on the ground who knew what was going on, only to countered by "official reports", since the initial reaction from anybody should be instantaneous incredulity.

[mczerone]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ap-sources-navy-seals-from-unit-that-killed-bin-laden-among-those-lost-in-helicopter-crash/2011/08/06/gIQAbRTcyI_story.html
Now saying the ones killed in the crash were not the ones involved in the Bin Laden raid. ??

SSDD

I remember the day the UBL stuff came out, a different aspect of the story was changed every 15 minutes. It must be hard making sure each press outlet has the same story if'n you're just making it up as you go...

[mczerone]

Since the actual names of the team are supposed to be uber classified, I suppose we'll never know for sure now.

I suspect the initial reports probably came from people on the ground who knew what was going on, only to countered by "official reports", since the initial reaction from anybody should be instantaneous incredulity.

And if they were the UBL hit-squad that are now perished, I'm sure the establishment has tools at the ready to come out in another 5 years to write a book about how he was on "Seal Team 6" and how his "recollection" matches the anti-history that is the official story.

[flightlesskiwi]

With all of the bs coming from the msm, I'm beginning to wonder if team 6 even existed

good point.

and ties into the "they are dead.... it wasn't them, they aren't dead" circle.

[Yieu]

I'm surprised they even let us know those particular individuals aren't alive anymore, because that leaves room for suspicion.

I suspect the initial reports probably came from people on the ground who knew what was going on, only to countered by "official reports", since the initial reaction from anybody should be instantaneous incredulity.

And now we know the likely answer to my question above.

[Brett85]

This is the main reason why I support Ron Paul, despite the fact that I disagree with him on certain issues. I'm just sick and tired of these endless wars. There's nothing conservative about spending trillions of dollars overseas on endless war and getting all of our troops killed.

[Pericles]

Indeed, the coincidence theory is statistically improbable. This has motive and plausible deniability written all over it.

I'm surprised they even let us know those particular individuals aren't alive anymore, because that leaves room for suspicion.

Except that every SEAL mission in Iraq and Afghanistan is performed by "SEAL Team 6" because that is the designation for counter terror missions. Just like all Pacific Rim activity is SEAL Team 5, Arctic warfare and Europe is SEAL Team 2, and so forth.

It is a good idea to have some understanding of the subject before venturing an opinion.

[Anti Federalist]

Except that every SEAL mission in Iraq and Afghanistan is performed by "SEAL Team 6" because that is the designation for counter terror missions. Just like all Pacific Rim activity is SEAL Team 5, Arctic warfare and Europe is SEAL Team 2, and so forth.

It is a good idea to have some understanding of the subject before venturing an opinion.

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm still skeptical.

[Pericles]

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm still skeptical.

Last info I had (and it is old - 2003) is that SEAL strength is almost 1500 personnel, so a loss of 31 is a big deal.

SEAL Team 6 would in theory, have about 200 to 300 personnel assigned at any one time.

[pcosmar]

It is a good idea to have some understanding of the subject before venturing an opinion.

Tis true, but riddle me this,, (from a tactical point of view)

Why would you use a slow and highly vulnerable troop transport in a hot zone,,when other aircraft more suited are available?

Why would you use this unsuitable craft without securing a drop zone?

And third,, aren't Warthogs and gunships more suitable for providing ground support than a antique slow and vulnerable aircraft?

[Anti Federalist]

Last info I had (and it is old - 2003) is that SEAL strength is almost 1500 personnel, so a loss of 31 is a big deal.

SEAL Team 6 would in theory, have about 200 to 300 personnel assigned at any one time.

Is that 200 - 300 operators or everybody, including REMFs?

[Pericles]

The problem is the way units are deployed - for the most part, Army units are deployed in platoon sized outposts, each "protecting" a town or key terrain. Larger cities get companies. Each task force typically has only one platoon as a reserve. If somebody gets hit, the reserve platoon is dispatched to the action - may be vehicle convoy or by helicopter.

A key study was made of the action at Wanat in 2008. Because of the relative isolation from the reaction force, and loss of certain equipment, no air support was available, Apaches took 56 minutes to arrive on station to provide support and the reaction platoon took 3 hours 45 minutes to arrive by convoy, and with 9 dead and 16 wounded, that action was one of the worst losses in ground combat in the war to date.

One of the problems of operating at distance is that helicopter is the only way to get there with additional troops in less than several hours.

The key cause is not enough troops on hand to perform the mission the Army wants to perform - why the "surge" tend to be effective, but in Afghanistan will not be big enough to "win".

[Pericles]

200 to 300 operators (meaning qualified SEALs), there are undoubtedly another 200 or so box movers, truck drivers, band aid carriers, and such assigned to a Special Forces unit of that size that are not SF qualified.

I'm guessing they have drawn down Teams 1, 2, 3, and 5 to build up 6 as that is where the action is, so my numbers are just a guess, but it is at least a SWAG and not just a WAG.

[Standing Liberty]

I have been skeptical of the Osama Bin Laden killing in the first place. Not sure if the SEAL Team members in this crash were involved or not. BUT it is funny how the so-called Osama Bin Laden raid was at the time Obama was taking heat for the birth certificate thing and this happened while he is taking heat for the S&P downgrade. Just a thought, could just be coincidence. Nonetheless, we need to stop these unconstitutional wars and stop wasting our resources in this empire of lies.

[pcosmar]

Just a thought, could just be coincidence.

Nonetheless, we need to stop these unconstitutional wars and stop wasting our resources in this empire of lies.

If you are a Coincidence Theorist, Thai is one way to look at it.

otherwise I fully agree with you.

[NaturalMystic]

Dr. Paul should start a pledge for candidates to stop the wars immediately and announce it on the stage of the debate this week. We owe it to the soliders, their families and our country. Not accepting defeat but acknowledging reality