Imagine the shoe's on the other foot...

[progressiveforpaul]

...and you might begin to understand why compromise is necessary to preserve and advance principles ....and win the election too:
http://progressivesforronpaul.blogspot.com/2011/08/shoe-on-other-foot-analogy-for.html

[Carehn]

I am fully for the progressives on both sides compromising their principles.

[trey4sports]

its about as idealistic as liberals crossing over to vote in the GOP primary.

[Travlyr]

Legalize industrial hemp...

All of this basically appeals to libertarians but then Kucinich is very explicit that he does not want to decrease the size of government but instead wants to provide all of the savings from pentagon spending for use in building the peaceful green economy. On top of that he wants a much more progressive income tax structure.

Legalize honest money... "Gold, Peace, and Prosperity" (http://mises.org/store/Product.aspx?ProductId=401&utm_source=Resources) by Ron Paul
Or free pdf/ebook here. (http://mises.org/resources/3150)

[Sam I am]

Hey hey I got an idea hey hey. WHAT IF:

they Raised taxes AND Reduced spending

I know what you're saying, "Raising tax and reducing spending at the same time is CRAZY".

But imagine if we did, the Debt would go down TWICE as fast.

[torchbearer]

Hey hey I got an idea hey hey. WHAT IF:

they Raised taxes AND Reduced spending

I know what you're saying, "Raising tax and reducing spending at the same time is CRAZY".

But imagine if we did, the Debt would go down TWICE as fast.

it would if we actually cut spending, but taxing more takes more money out of the private sector. the sector that creates wealth.
so you kill the goose that is laying the golden eggs.

[realtonygoodwin]

...and you might begin to understand why compromise is necessary to preserve and advance principles ....and win the election too:
http://progressivesforronpaul.blogspot.com/2011/08/shoe-on-other-foot-analogy-for.html

I don't think I get your point... You are thinking that if Ron Paul supports some progressive ideals, it would help him get the GOP nomination?

[pcosmar]

...and you might begin to understand why compromise is necessary to preserve and advance principles ....and win the election too:
http://progressivesforronpaul.blogspot.com/2011/08/shoe-on-other-foot-analogy-for.html

Nope,
The country still ends or is swallowed by the UN.
Economic crash and ensuing chaos would not be averted by empty promises and half steps.

It does not end socialism nor address the core issues.
Do you really think people here are that stupid? That we would buy pandering, and more empty rhetoric.

[sailingaway]

I do understand but at this point you have the candidate on your side actually attacking Social Security and medicare and our guy trying to patch them and take money from elsewhere for savings. I think our candidate is better than yours even by YOUR principles, no offense.

[truthspeaker]

Hey hey I got an idea hey hey. WHAT IF:

they Raised taxes AND Reduced spending

I know what you're saying, "Raising tax and reducing spending at the same time is CRAZY".

But imagine if we did, the Debt would go down TWICE as fast.

It'd be better to let the States do their job imo, and not the National government. So many State-power tasks were delegated to the national level since the 1970's. That's where a lot of spending came from. This new "Super Committee" does not give me any faith that they'll do the job any better.

Sam I Am--if you truly feel that way, then look up the Reform Party platform.

[progressiveforpaul]

Now one for progressives: http://progressivesforronpaul.blogspot.com/2011/08/now-one-for-progressives.html

[realtonygoodwin]

Candidate A

[Travlyr]

Now One for Progressives (http://progressivesforronpaul.blogspot.com/2011/08/now-one-for-progressives.html)
Imagine for a moment McCain is president. It's 2 days after Super Tuesday 2012. Two candidates have emerged from the pack. Candidate A is calling for a freeze on domestic discretionary spending and cuts in social security and medicare benefits. Candidate B is calling for a 50% cuts in defense and security spending. From those cuts, B wants to use half to pay down debt and half to increase domestic spending. Who are you going to vote for?

Ron Paul 2012
Defender of Liberty and supporter of the Constitution

[progressiveforpaul]

So you're voting for Obama if Ron Paul is nominated.
Candidate A

[YumYum]

Does anyone know what Obama told Kucinich (when they took the plane ride) that made Kucinich go with Obamacare even though there wasn't a public option?

[pcosmar]

progressiveforpaul,,What is your purpose? What are you trying to accomplish? Who are you trying to convince?

Do you want Ron Paul to lie and make false claims to woo socialists?
That is what it sounds like.

How about educating "progressives" on the total failure of socialism and point out what a failure progressives have been.
Then point out that this country was founded on a Constitution and if we followed it we could turn the country around.
And that Ron Paul has championed the constitution consistently for decades.

Ron is not going to lie or pander. Period.

[VegasPatriot]

Ron Paul 2012
Defender of Liberty and supporter of the Constitution
I like that slogan...
Fix:
Ron Paul 2012
Defender of Liberty
Champion of the Constitution

Now I love it... Thanks (I've been looking for new slogans for sign painting here in NV)

[MJU1983]

Here are words I never thought would come out of my mouth, be typed at my hand or even thought in my brain: I agree with Cenk Uygur.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bybOdn5-yD0
Fund War, Cut Social Security & Medicare - Senator (http://youtu.be/bybOdn5-yD0)


Senator Joe Lieberman (I-CT) is arguing that entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare need to be cut so that the U.S. can continue spending massive amounts of money on 'defense (aka wars in Iraq and Afghanistan).

Cenk ends the video on a good fact/thought...worth a watch.

[pcosmar]

Imagine the shoe's on the other foot...

When I put a boot on the wrong foot it is uncomfortable and I notice the mistake immediately.

ymmv

[Travlyr]

I wonder if Cenk Uygur understands that he is advocating the same thing here as Ron Paul has been saying?

And Cenk... a lot of us did not ever for a second believe Barack Obama was going to do the right thing.

[bkreigh]

progressiveforpaul,,what is your purpose? What are you trying to accomplish? Who are you trying to convince?

Do you want ron paul to lie and make false claims to woo socialists?
That is what it sounds like.

How about educating "progressives" on the total failure of socialism and point out what a failure progressives have been.
Then point out that this country was founded on a constitution and if we followed it we could turn the country around.
And that ron paul has championed the constitution consistently for decades.

Ron is not going to lie or pander. Period.

this!!!!

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Hey hey I got an idea hey hey. WHAT IF:

they Raised taxes AND Reduced spending

I know what you're saying, "Raising tax and reducing spending at the same time is CRAZY".

But imagine if we did, the Debt would go down TWICE as fast.
More tax? Hell naws. I pay enough. Also, a quick way to get out of your share of the debt is to move to another country. Waiting until 2012 to decide if I should or not.

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

The Road to Serfdom was an amazingly accurate insight into the path the major world nations would tread.

If you have not read it, highly recommend it.

One might ask oneself, why the founders were so brilliant, just as one may ask how Ron can be so on point with his stances on issues, or how the author Hayek could have foreseen the unfolding of events in America and Europe so clearly...

It comes from understanding the principles behind things.

[showpan]

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding of basic concepts here.
First, progressive ideals are not necessarily socialist ideals.
These programs were needed because employers have proven that they do not want to pay enough for people to be able to plan ahead which is also why unions were formed.
If you are saying that SS and medicare are a failure, you are completely wrong. They are two of the most popular programs to ever exist and at least 76% of this country supports them. They have provided for the vast majority of our seniors and they were very efficient at one time. They are only failing because the government has interfered and failed to fund them with the money that was collected. They have stolen the money and the FED has devalued our dollar.
The other reason they are not taking in enough money now is because companies are still being given subsidies to move. The decent paying middle class jobs that once supported these programs and our government have been taken away. Low paying service jobs do not pay enough into them and add another 6 to 8 MILLION more jobs being taken by illegals who claim exempt and you now have a disproportionate number of workers pay needed to fund anything. Add inflation into the mix and we now have a sinking ship.
Welfare fraud accounted for 5% according to the last study. Welfare recipients did not stay on welfare for long amounts of time prior to NAFTA. Same with unemployment. The average unemployed worker collecting benefits now exceeds over 1 year. What do you think will happen when those benefits run out in January? Over a MILLION of them did just run out and we have yet to see the effects. I'm sure it won't take long though. Come January, there will be 10 MILLION people who no longer have ANY income at all unless they extend them again.
Medicare fraud accounted for over 55% by providers and is reflected in their profits. Less than 5% was found to be claimed by individuals.
These socialist programs are only now a burden since neocon globalists have taken away 1/4 of this countries jobs and made it easier for insurance companies to scam.
Was this a neocon plan designed to transfer more wealth? Is it a coincidence that it also happens to be a time when millions of people are getting ready to retire? Is it part of their plan to make so many MILLIONS of people so desperate that they beg them to change this countries form of government?
If you are expecting Ron Paul to end these programs....you are wrong.
He has stated that he will stop robbing them and fund them. He will provide for an opt out but "he will not take them away if that is what the people want."
He will also do what is necessary to bring these companies back, getting rid of regulations, eliminating taxes and imposing tariffs.

IMHO, when those who opt out have not provided for their future, (the vast majority) will then look to the very "socialist" programs they were once against to help them in their time of need. This will create an even bigger burden. How many young people have actually started saving for their retirement knowing that SS will probably not be there? I don't know any at all. How many even have a savings account? This is why these programs were started in the first place, a bunch of folks were literally dying in the streets because people didn't make enough to provide for the present let alone the future....history repeats itself and McDonalds and Walmart pay barely puts food on the table.
I suspect that there will soon be a lot more homeless living on the streets. Hobos with shotguns who will do more to accelerate the fascist state we are barreling towards.

[nobody's_hero]

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding of basic concepts here.
First, progressive ideals are not necessarily socialist ideals.
These programs were needed because employers have proven that they do not want to pay enough for people to be able to plan ahead which is also why unions were formed.
If you are saying that SS and medicare are a failure, you are completely wrong. They are two of the most popular programs to ever exist and at least 76% of this country supports them. They have provided for the vast majority of our seniors and they were very efficient at one time. They are only failing because the government has interfered and failed to fund them with the money that was collected.They have stolen the money and the FED has devalued our dollar.

And in essence, therein lies the problem with socialism (or whatever you want to label it). You want to use government to force an employer to do something that the employer does not want to even be bothered with, and expect government to do something that it cannot be trusted with.

As Ron Paul said in his book, the revolution: A manifesto:


Needless to say, I am also unimpressed by the liberal Left. Although they posture as critical thinkers, their confidence in government is inexcusably naive, based as it is on civics textbook platitudes that bear absolutely zero resemblance to reality.

Essentially, that's what it boils down to—naivety.

Furthermore, if an individual himself does not seem interested enough to plan for his own retirement, he should not expect anyone else to 'give a bigger damn' for his future than that person does himself, but, that is the Social Security program in a nutshell.

[DamianTV]

Well, how should I plan to retire? If I invest in the Stock Market, any money I put into it will evaporate long before I reach retirement age. Social Security? Ha! Stuff my matress with Fiat Currency? I may as well wipe my ass with it. Physical Gold? Ahhh! Now there is something that will hold its value! Unless I get robbed, or it is confiscated by the government.

So, what do I do to ensure that I can retire?

[progressiveforpaul]

and right on target!


There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding of basic concepts here.
First, progressive ideals are not necessarily socialist ideals.
These programs were needed because employers have proven that they do not want to pay enough for people to be able to plan ahead which is also why unions were formed.
If you are saying that SS and medicare are a failure, you are completely wrong. They are two of the most popular programs to ever exist and at least 76% of this country supports them. They have provided for the vast majority of our seniors and they were very efficient at one time. They are only failing because the government has interfered and failed to fund them with the money that was collected. They have stolen the money and the FED has devalued our dollar.
The other reason they are not taking in enough money now is because companies are still being given subsidies to move. The decent paying middle class jobs that once supported these programs and our government have been taken away. Low paying service jobs do not pay enough into them and add another 6 to 8 MILLION more jobs being taken by illegals who claim exempt and you now have a disproportionate number of workers pay needed to fund anything. Add inflation into the mix and we now have a sinking ship.
Welfare fraud accounted for 5% according to the last study. Welfare recipients did not stay on welfare for long amounts of time prior to NAFTA. Same with unemployment. The average unemployed worker collecting benefits now exceeds over 1 year. What do you think will happen when those benefits run out in January? Over a MILLION of them did just run out and we have yet to see the effects. I'm sure it won't take long though. Come January, there will be 10 MILLION people who no longer have ANY income at all unless they extend them again.
Medicare fraud accounted for over 55% by providers and is reflected in their profits. Less than 5% was found to be claimed by individuals.
These socialist programs are only now a burden since neocon globalists have taken away 1/4 of this countries jobs and made it easier for insurance companies to scam.
Was this a neocon plan designed to transfer more wealth? Is it a coincidence that it also happens to be a time when millions of people are getting ready to retire? Is it part of their plan to make so many MILLIONS of people so desperate that they beg them to change this countries form of government?
If you are expecting Ron Paul to end these programs....you are wrong.
He has stated that he will stop robbing them and fund them. He will provide for an opt out but "he will not take them away if that is what the people want."
He will also do what is necessary to bring these companies back, getting rid of regulations, eliminating taxes and imposing tariffs.

IMHO, when those who opt out have not provided for their future, (the vast majority) will then look to the very "socialist" programs they were once against to help them in their time of need. This will create an even bigger burden. How many young people have actually started saving for their retirement knowing that SS will probably not be there? I don't know any at all. How many even have a savings account? This is why these programs were started in the first place, a bunch of folks were literally dying in the streets because people didn't make enough to provide for the present let alone the future....history repeats itself and McDonalds and Walmart pay barely puts food on the table.
I suspect that there will soon be a lot more homeless living on the streets. Hobos with shotguns who will do more to accelerate the fascist state we are barreling towards.