80-year-old man JAILED for shingling his roof

[jct74]

This is crazy!


The shingles that Andrew Espey put up two years ago are holding up well, but the legal battle that came with them is far from over.

It all started when Espey decided to re–shingle his roof after discovering a leak.

Espey says, "The building inspector came along and told me I couldn't do it. He told me I had to quit and take off the shingles and start over because they have a code."

A Minnesota state residential code says that new asphalt shingles cannot be installed without first removing exist shingles, and on one section of the roof Espey was installing new shingles over the old.

Espey says, "They didn't tell me I couldn't overlay shingles when I got my permit...I didn't even know they had such a code."

The city served him a stop work order, but he ignored it and finished the job.

...

Nevertheless, on March of last year he was found guilty of four counts of violating building code and two counts of violating a stop work order, fined over $2000 and sentenced to 90 days in jail, 60 with good behavior.

...

Espey did report to the Jackson city law enforcement center to serve his time but was let out after just 17 days as medical precaution.

Espey is claustrophobic and a doctor said staying in jail was making his hypertension worse.

The judge reduced his 73–day balance to 30, to be served on electronic home monitoring or in jail three days at a time.

Read the whole thing:
http://www.keyc.tv/story/15176536/jackson-man-jailed-for-shingling

[Romulus]

f-d up insanity.

[TheViper]

The man is 80 and re-shingling his roof? He should have been commended, not apprehended.

[Danke]

So many lawless citizens. I bet he had a lemonade stand in his childhood.

[GreenBulldog]

This is JUST ONE of the reason why I believe buying precious metals and foreign currencies and stocks is a better than buying real estate: You DON'T really own what you buy.

You can't choose how to fix your own house?

What? The government do it for public safety? Bullshit!

If they really want public safety, they should RECOMMEND fixes, not enforce them.

Say what? You want safety for renters? How about private appraisers rating the safety of the house?

In addition, you also have to pay property tax. What's worse, taxes and housing regulations can change, making it even more risky to buy a house.

[Anti Federalist]

Three felonies a day...


Jackson Man Jailed For Shingling

http://www.keyc.tv/story/15176536/jackson-man-jailed-for-shingling

Posted: Jul 29, 2011 5:28 PM EST Updated: Jul 29, 2011 8:13 PM EST

The shingles that Andrew Espey put up two years ago are holding up well, but the legal battle that came with them is far from over.

It all started when Espey decided to re–shingle his roof after discovering a leak.

Espey says, "The building inspector came along and told me I couldn't do it. He told me I had to quit and take off the shingles and start over because they have a code."

A Minnesota state residential code says that new asphalt shingles cannot be installed without first removing exist shingles, and on one section of the roof Espey was installing new shingles over the old.

Espey says, "They didn't tell me I couldn't overlay shingles when I got my permit...I didn't even know they had such a code."

The city served him a stop work order, but he ignored it and finished the job.

Espey says, "I was kind of getting disturbed a little bit, somebody telling me what I can do on my home."

Nevertheless, on March of last year he was found guilty of four counts of violating building code and two counts of violating a stop work order, fined over $2000 and sentenced to 90 days in jail, 60 with good behavior.

Espey says, "60 days for working on a house and a drunk can drive down the highway and get a lot less."

Espey did report to the Jackson city law enforcement center to serve his time but was let out after just 17 days as medical precaution.

Espey is claustrophobic and a doctor said staying in jail was making his hypertension worse.

The judge reduced his 73–day balance to 30, to be served on electronic home monitoring or in jail three days at a time.

Espey says, "I said no I don't want them, this isn't what we served in the military for to be tied up in our own home."

Espey is also refusing to pay his fines, maintaining that he did nothing wrong.

Espey says, "I hope they just drop it pretty soon and decide it's enough."

The City attorney declined to comment.

Espy was arrested again last week at a city council meeting where an ordinance was introduced to make violations of the building code a nuisance. He was released after 24 hours.

[Pericles]

Money quote -

Espey says, "I said no I don't want them, this isn't what we served in the military for to be tied up in our own home."


Got weapons?

[AGRP]

Our lives literally belong to the state.

[LiBeRtY4Eva]

That's a very sad story right there . I feel really bad for the old guy . I mean , come on , over changing shingles ? Alright , there was a code ... but hey , the guy was never told there was such a code . Instead of putting the guy behind bars , just should of served him with a fine . I work in the construction field , and trust me , I know how it feels to always get your chops busted by inspectors . You need a permit for everything nowadays , it sucks .

[Krugerrand]

That's a very sad story right there . I feel really bad for the old guy . I mean , come on , over changing shingles ? Alright , there was a code ... but hey , the guy was never told there was such a code . Instead of putting the guy behind bars , just should of served him with a fine . I work in the construction field , and trust me , I know how it feels to always get your chops busted by inspectors . You need a permit for everything nowadays , it sucks .

Welcome to the forum, LiBeRtY4Eva! We're glad to have you here.

[Bern]

Insubordination will not be tolerated.

[belian78]

That's a very sad story right there . I feel really bad for the old guy . I mean , come on , over changing shingles ? Alright , there was a code ... but hey , the guy was never told there was such a code . Instead of putting the guy behind bars , just should of served him with a fine . I work in the construction field , and trust me , I know how it feels to always get your chops busted by inspectors . You need a permit for everything nowadays , it sucks .

Welcome to RPF!

[brushfire]

Send in the SWAT team... Old timers stay up late and get up early though... Best to do a daytime raid, dual breach - taking out any canines that may be on the premise first.

-rep if the sarcasm gets old..

[Krugerrand]

The city served him a stop work order, but he ignored it and finished the job.

Espey says, "I was kind of getting disturbed a little bit, somebody telling me what I can do on my home."


spey says, "I said no I don't want them, this isn't what we served in the military for to be tied up in our own home."

Espey is also refusing to pay his fines, maintaining that he did nothing wrong.

Espey says, "I hope they just drop it pretty soon and decide it's enough."

Made a prisoner in his own home for maintaining it. Talk about the audacity of hope.

Stories like these should be shared with our active duty military so that they know for what they are fighting and what to expect on their return.

[Krugerrand]

Send in the SWAT team... Old timers stay up late and get up early though... Best to do a daytime raid, dual breach - taking out any canines that may be on the premise first.

-rep if the sarcasm gets old..

I would think a good tasing would get this joker in order.

(Anybody want to bet his neighbor has a roofing business and is mad he didn't purchase his services?)

[brushfire]

(Anybody want to bet his neighbor has a roofing business and is mad he didn't purchase his services?)

Why, that's what government is for. And calling the health department on your competitor when you see their child in the kitchen, at their family diner.

Property rights get in the way of corporate-government collusion.

..and yes, tase that old defiant bastard for 30 seconds. After that, tase the dead canine to watch it twitch - finish it off with a big SWWWAT (aka high five).

[oyarde]

What a mess , who is this Judge ??

[oyarde]

Something needs to be done about the judge that jailed that guy.

[Krugerrand]

some more info:

Some more background on this guy, from His older son. It was sent to me by email.

I am writing in behalf of my father Andrew O Espey of Jackson MN. He is a 79 year old husband,father of five with 10 grand children, two great grand children and two on the way. He served in Berlin Germany during the Koren War.
In 2009 his house roof needed some repairs. My (NOW SERVING IN THE NATIONAL GUARD IN AFGHANISTAN) and I volunteered to re roof two sides of his house, because of faulty shingles.( His house was completely re shingled about 10 years earlier.) He received a permit from the city of Jackson MN and we then purchased the materials do shingle the two bad sections. One side had many shingles that were buckling up and cracking. The other side only had a few bad shingles but were leaking water. The only thing the city wanted to know on the application was how much of the roof was being done and were the debris was being hauled to.
The bad side we completely stripped off and re shingled. The other side we started putting on as a second layer according to directions for second layer shingling. About six rows into the side a man stopped over and started asking questions about the roof. He talked to me first. He did not identify himself as an inspector nor did he have any badge or ID on his car. He then went and talked to my dad who was not on the roof. He then called the police and issued a stop work order. My nephew and I quit working on the roof. It needed to be sealed or rain would go under the shingles put on and leak into the house. My dad talked to the city lawyer and went up and finished the side by himself over the next few days. A job that would take an average roofer only a few hours to complete, took him several days because of age and heat.
He was cited with several counts of working on his roof because he had to do it over several days where anyone else would have completed it in hours and been charged one count.
He was charged for working on it the day the inspector was there, and he was never on the roof that day. He was also charge on a day He was not even home.
The same lawyer that gave him advise on the charges was then the lawyer for the prosecution. (does not seem right).
I do not know all the court details.
Andrew is now sitting in the Jackson City Jail for putting a second layer of shingles on his house. If laws are going to written, they should be explained to every house hold that the law affects. He was not told when he got the permit that the roof could only have one layer. Back when he was in his twenties he was a carpenter for a construction company that did roofs and they put on multiple layers. How are people supposed to know what is wright and wrong if the laws are not delivered to every house hold they affect. Are at least explained when getting permits. Why is a 79 year old man in jail for this when people that do harm to others get set free. What freedom did my dad serve for and my Nephew serving now for? I myself would have served along with my brother and two of my sisters if I was not turned down because of my physical disabilities.
I could write more on that subject and the unfairness of the way people are treated on medicare when I lost my job to a surgery that went wrong in Rochester. Costing me my job, retirement and savings. Now on medical SS and medicare. But my dads case is more important. Please set him free and clean his record,his grand children should not have to remember him as a criminal.

Took some name out to keep admin happy.

http://okoblogi.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=4885923


He is doing okay now but because of health concerns has to have ankle bracelets for 30 days. being confined to inside of house except 3 hours a week. In place of being in Jail. This is no different than a jail cell. He does not handle confinement well, even being in house all day.He is one that walks and rides bicycle each day or works in yard. Much concern about his health if this happens. Afraid it will decline rapidly. City council action most likely not help him.
If this was a serious crime he would have complied but for2 layers of shingles. I hope the city and state will be happy when his health is broken.

Case info: (I had to search on Last/First name to find)
http://pa.courts.state.mn.us/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=1612985025

[Krugerrand]

What a mess , who is this Judge ??

http://www.mncourts.gov/?page=JudgeBio_v2&printFriendly=true&ID=30102

http://www.mncourts.gov/assets/images/sized/judges/5/lg/TitusOfficial2.jpg

[oyarde]

Drudge should pick this judge up ...

[oyarde]

Is this an elected position ?

[dean.engelhardt]

Deleted

[oyarde]

Those roofers must have alot of clout to get a code like that pushed through , smells dirty ...

[AFPVet]

WTH.... I learned in one of my public policy classes that the "permits" were designed so that you didn't break the code—in addition to being an income generator. If he got a permit, he should've known the code. Still... why does a private citizen have to conform to a "code"? The government should not be responsible for safety... we should be.

1. There should be no property taxes
2. People should be able to do whatever they want with their properties
3. The government needs to stay out of the peoples personal lives.

[Krugerrand]

WTH.... I learned in one of my public policy classes that the "permits" were designed so that you didn't break the code—in addition to being an income generator. If he got a permit, he should've known the code. Still... why does a private citizen have to conform to a "code"? The government should not be responsible for safety... we should be.

1. There should be no property taxes
2. People should be able to do whatever they want with their properties
3. The government needs to stay out of the peoples personal lives.

In theory, permit/inspections give the next home-buyer the peace of mind of knowing that the project was completed properly and safely. In practice, the same could be done by private companies and the resale value would reflect a privately inspected project vs. a non-inspected project.

[kahless]

The Judge, Prosecutor and building inspector need to be put behind bars. It appears the people of that town are not safe from these criminals. Besides criminal prosecution of those three, they and the town should also be charged in a civil court for their actions against this man. If there is no criminal prosecution being launched I sure hope someone comes forward to help this man with a civil action against these criminals.

I hope at the very least a recall action is being put in place by the people in that town.

[Krugerrand]

can we merge these threads?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?306428-MN-Man-jailed-for-replacing-shingles-on-his-roof-jailed-again-for-trying-to-change-the-law

[AFPVet]

The Judge, Prosecutor and building inspector need to be put behind bars. It appears the people of that town are not safe from these criminals. Besides criminal prosecution of those three, they and the town should also be charged in a civil court for their actions against this man. If there is no criminal prosecution being launched I sure hope someone comes forward to help this man with a civil action against these criminals.

I hope at the very least a recall action is being put in place by the people in that town.

I agree.

[AFPVet]

In theory, permit/inspections give the next home-buyer the peace of mind of knowing that the project was completed properly and safely. In practice, the same could be done by private companies and the resale value would reflect a privately inspected project vs. a non-inspected project.

I agree. Unfortunately, government likes to control everything.

[angelatc]

Most places only allow you to put two layers of shingles on, because it gets so heavy that the roof will collapse if you just keep shingling over shingles. Maybe with all the snow they get there they decided only one layer would be allowed.

But still - a felony?

We did my roof in Florida on the weekend, because the inspectors don't work then. That won't work if you have bad neighbors, but I didn't have that problem.

[sailingaway]

If the old shingles are asbestos containing, it is MUCH more expensive to take them off and dispose of them than cover them, and if you are within the layers your roof will allow, anyone would rather cover them.

[Occam's Banana]

Espey says, "60 days for working on a house and a drunk can drive down the highway and get a lot less."
The reason for the discrepancy noted by Espy is that drunk drivers merely endanger the lives & property of innocents. They are not a danger to the "system."

Sober people who want to mind their own business (and who express any hint of criticism or disapproval of statist flunkies who want to mind it for them) are very much a danger to the "system" - and are thus treated with greater severity.

[Anti Federalist]

Most places only allow you to put two layers of shingles on, because it gets so heavy that the roof will collapse if you just keep shingling over shingles. Maybe with all the snow they get there they decided only one layer would be allowed.

But still - a felony?

We did my roof in Florida on the weekend, because the inspectors don't work then. That won't work if you have bad neighbors, but I didn't have that problem.

There are 200 to 300 year old homes all around me.

I have a buddy of mine lives in a home that was built in 1765.

I wonder how it is that all these homes have stood for so long without government 'crats dictating what could be done to them or how they were built.

[Carehn]

Guess if your so worried about the roof you can check it out a bit before you buy the home. then we can be without the roof police.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I never understood why you need a town/city's permission to do work on the property you OWN. There was something like this with someone installing a pool in their backyard in my town. It's not even a big pool.

[Anti Federalist]

I never understood why you need a town/city's permission to do work on the property you OWN. There was something like this with someone installing a pool in their backyard in my town. It's not even a big pool.

Because you don't "own" anything, you are simply renting from the state.

[headhawg7]

Those roofers must have alot of clout to get a code like that pushed through , smells dirty ...

Yep...A LOT of laws, codes and regulations like that are being passed here locally where I live. There are more and more of these laws that are being lobbied for by businesses to weed out competition and new startups. Crony capitalism at its finest.

[Carehn]

Yep...A LOT of laws, codes and regulations like that are being passed here locally where I live. There are more and more of these laws that are being lobbied for by businesses to weed out competition and new startups. Crony capitalism at its finest.

People in idaho who i sale to... all contractors are always bitching about the lack of city and state codes and how just anyone can be a roofer or painter without a license. They want government to use a gun to drive costumers their way.

I point out that this keeps costs low. which they like when it comes to everything else. Just not construction i guess.

Many of them get it but the union painters are kinda slow you understand. Good thing the union is taking good care of them.

[AuH20]

In times like this, REMEMBER Marvin Heemeyer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JanoJ2vg5rM&feature=related

[Anti Federalist]

In times like this, REMEMBER Marvin Heemeyer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JanoJ2vg5rM&feature=related

And Carl Drega.

[heavenlyboy34]

USA-Land of the unfree, home of the slave.

[heavenlyboy34]

Because you don't "own" anything, you are simply renting from the state.
qft. A not-often talked about fact of Constitutionalism ^^

[headhawg7]

People in idaho who i sale to... all contractors are always bitching about the lack of city and state codes and how just anyone can be a roofer or painter without a license. They want government to use a gun to drive costumers their way.

I point out that this keeps costs low. which they like when it comes to everything else. Just not construction i guess.

Many of them get it but the union painters are kinda slow you understand. Good thing the union is taking good care of them.

I totally agree. Its happening at the local level, state and the federal level. Look at obamacare. Yes...I am sure the health insurance industry was really(wink wink) lobbying against the bill behind the scenes. I mean why would the insurance companies want the govt to mandate all people buy insurance? I mean who would want MORE customers? /sarcasm

[jct74]

can we merge these threads?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?306428-MN-Man-jailed-for-replacing-shingles-on-his-roof-jailed-again-for-trying-to-change-the-law

+1


Edit: thanks mods

[AZKing]

I never understood why you need a town/city's permission to do work on the property you OWN. There was something like this with someone installing a pool in their backyard in my town. It's not even a big pool.

We had a fire come through the area recently and destroyed about 200 buildings (80 homes, the rest garages, sheds, barns). The county still wants you to buy a DESTRUCTION PERMIT (and then a building permit) if you lost something in the fire. It's amazing how these people operate.

BTW, you need a permit because they want to add it to your property taxes. That's the real reason you need a permit.

[libertybrewcity]

17 days too many.

[DamianTV]

It isnt a Right if someone can deny you "Permission" to do anything.

[oyarde]

Yep...A LOT of laws, codes and regulations like that are being passed here locally where I live. There are more and more of these laws that are being lobbied for by businesses to weed out competition and new startups. Crony capitalism at its finest.

Yep , that is what I think...

[oyarde]

Is this an elected position ?

I have an old buddy up around International Falls , I will get him on this .

[Krugerrand]

Because you don't "own" anything, you are simply renting from the state.

That's exactly right. If you improve upon the house, then the government needs to raise your rent/taxes accordingly.

Given the own/rent property tax situation, it has an aspect of fairness to it. Let's say you and your neighbor have virtually identical houses and properties. Then, your neighbor improves their house and doubles it value. Would it be fair for you to have to pay the same in taxes for a property of less value than your neighbor.

And therein lies the trick. The government gets you to think in terms of fairness bout how much your paying, which takes your eyes off of the fact that property taxes are immoral in the first place.

It would be like comparing how many times your wife and your neighbor's wife gets raped by the mayor and trying to ensure the number of rapes is fair.

[Bern]

BTW, MN seems to be heavily in the pocket of unions. Remember that tree trimmer who was fined and threatened with arrest (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?296616-MN-Cops-city-quot-official-quot-fine-and-threaten-to-arrest-man-for-helping-tornado-clean-up.) for providing free service after a natural disaster?

http://www.unionroofers.com/dcs-lus/locals.aspx/MN

[oyarde]

Yes , from what I can tell , it is union owned ...

[PaulConventionWV]

That's a very sad story right there . I feel really bad for the old guy . I mean , come on , over changing shingles ? Alright , there was a code ... but hey , the guy was never told there was such a code . Instead of putting the guy behind bars , just should of served him with a fine . I work in the construction field , and trust me , I know how it feels to always get your chops busted by inspectors . You need a permit for everything nowadays , it sucks .

Yeah, overlaying shingles probably isn't a good idea. They did tell him to stop. Not that I'm defending the state's actions, but if I were him, I would have just taken off the old shingles first. It would have saved a lot of trouble.

[pcosmar]

Yeah, overlaying shingles probably isn't a good idea. They did tell him to stop. Not that I'm defending the state's actions, but if I were him, I would have just taken off the old shingles first. It would have saved a lot of trouble.

Where do people get the idea that there is something wrong with this?

I own a home that was built in 1921. The roof has been re-shingled. At least once.

I hope to be able to put a metal roof on some day, Right over top of the existing shingles, as the manufacturer recommends.

[Anti Federalist]

+1


Edit: thanks mods

Agreed, good merge.

Sorry about the double post.

[DamianTV]

When does the insanity stop?

Whats next? Man imprisoned for life for fixing a leaky faucet without obtaining a license while having his Home confiscated and sold to fund further Communist Corpratocracy?

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

He should have never gotten the permit and just put the shingles up.

[LibForestPaul]

And his fellow mundanes brought back a conviction?

[amy31416]

He should have never gotten the permit and just put the shingles up.

Correct.

I still can't believe that they're actually going to imprison an 80-year-old man for this. What a bunch of jackasses.

[DamianTV]

And his fellow mundanes brought back a conviction?

Probably didnt have a Trial By Jury. If he did, they'd do everything they could to keep him from getting a Jury. They would threaten to throw the book at him if he was found guilty, offer plea deals (which basically corerces him to plead Guilty), and try to get him to waive his Constitutional Rights long before he enters the Court Room.

How is any of that a Fair and Impartial Justice System?

[oyarde]

//