Democrats say Obama should invoke 14th Amendment

[YumYum]

Seems like the right thing to do. Anybody who has to pay back student loans, receives federal disability checks, and Social Security checks would have to agree.


WASHINGTON (AP) — House Democrats said Wednesday that President Barack Obama should invoke a little-known constitutional provision to prevent the nation from going into default if Congress fails to come up with a plan to raise the debt ceiling.

Rep. James Clyburn of South Carolina, a member of the Democratic leadership, said he told fellow Democrats that Obama should both veto any House GOP plan for a short-term extension of the debt ceiling and invoke the 14th amendment, which says that the validity of the nation's public debt "shall not be questioned."

http://news.yahoo.com/house-democrats-obama-invoke-14th-amendment-152323569.html

[acptulsa]

These people are idiots. Not raising the debt limit isn't questioning the validity of the nation's existing debt. It's just not allowing the government to pile on additional valid debt.

There's a difference between confirming the validity of existing debt and declaring their addiction to defecit spending to somehow be 'valid' or even holy.

[YumYum]

Are you saying that the programs I just mentioned won't be affected? The debt has increased to pay for new programs that have already been committed to (promissory on military; foreign aid), and the article states who will suffer. We have members on this forum who owe on student loans, and receive and depend on their disability checks and Social Security checks and Medicare. If the debt ceiling isn't raised, special interest won't be hurt, it is the poor and the elderly that will suffer, along with students paying 15% or more on their student loans.

[acptulsa]

I'm saying the Fourteenth has no effect on the debt ceiling because there is no debt until Congress borrows. If Congress borrows, the debt is valid per the Fourteenth. If Congress prevents itself from borrowing through a debt ceiling, the Fourteenth cannot force Congress to borrow more, or allow them to ignore their own law affecting them just because they want to borrow more. Once they borrow to meet the promises they foolishly made, the debt is valid. But it says nothing about creating more debt because Congress made promises it couldn't keep, or for any other purpose.

Entitlements aren't debt. Yeah, Congress took FICA money from our seniors and our seniors reasonably expect to get that back now. But that doesn't make it debt any more than paying your life insurance makes your life insurance company indebted to you.

This isn't reasonable stuff. This is liberals thinking government power can make their silly semantics come true as if by waving a magic wand. Entitlements are not government indebtedness to us. Period.

Bonds are debt, not entitlement promises, and the Fourteenth can ensure bonds aren't canceled but cannot force Congress to issue more.

There are other ways to servce the debt other than enlarging it. Anyone interested in buying one slightly used Department of Education? Fire sale prices! Yeah, it's useless, but you'd be the first one on your block to have one!

[demolama]

Good, yet another reason to rid ourselves of that god awful amendment! The uses and abuses of it have taken their toll on this country.

[enjerth]

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.
Sounds to me more like the 14th amendment would apply more to credit rating agencies than it would allow for a debt ceiling increase.

And the debt is authorized, by law, up to the debt ceiling. Above the debt ceiling, it is not authorized by law.

[Tax the Fed]

So . . . "President Obama should sign an executive order raising the debt ceiling without Congressional approval."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/07/last-ditch-14th-amendment-plan-gains-momentum-as-debt-clock-ticks-.html

[acptulsa]

abc calling for totalitarianism? Charming.

[bwlibertyman]

I have some student loans from sallie mae. I'd have no problem if the government defunds that gse. Unless they sell my loans to someone else I would have nowhere to pay!

[Aratus]

this is to the wire