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View Full Version : Lets calm down. The Rally will just be changed a bit. It's okay.




FrankRep
11-01-2007, 08:28 AM
From Bob Larkin
interleave1@xxx

Question: Is the rally changed or canceled?


Is the rally changed or canceled? I need to know this ASAP. Disinformation is traveling fast.



At this point. Changed.
More info to come.

Bob Larkin

literatim
11-01-2007, 08:30 AM
Changed is the problem. There have already been fliers passed out for this event and many people around the country have plane tickets purchased and hotel rooms reserved.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 08:32 AM
Changed is the problem. There have already been fliers passed out for this event and many people around the country have plane tickets purchased and hotel rooms reserved.

That's only the beginning of it.

jake
11-01-2007, 08:45 AM
why is this happening?

me3
11-01-2007, 08:50 AM
I dunno, but it was wrong to send the email without having the complete story and changes detailed.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 08:50 AM
why is this happening?

Call the campaign and ask. I couldn't get an exact answer though.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 08:50 AM
I dunno, but it was wrong to send the email without having the complete story and changes detailed.

The changes haven't been figured out yet. They don't know exactly where they are going to hold it now.

Hank
11-01-2007, 08:51 AM
It is not ok.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 08:52 AM
It is not ok.

No, it's not. To make this change this late...........................

James R
11-01-2007, 09:07 AM
Copied message from the main thread:

walt
Senior Member
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Location: Chicago
Posts: 642
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I just called. They said it's not a cost issue but something else 'highly complex' - they said they are "working feverishly on it" and that there should be an announcement in "a few hours".

Hank
11-01-2007, 09:09 AM
The only acceptable announcement is that they did not change anything.

me3
11-01-2007, 09:27 AM
Like the grassroots, they should wait until they have their ducks in a row before getting everyone riled up with speculation. I mean, you would think the campaign knows how fast good and bad information spreads, and how neurotic some segments of the grassroots are.

We'll just have to wait now, and hope they come out with a final, comprehensive plan. And when they do, instead of criticizing it, mobilize to make it work as well as possible.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 09:29 AM
Like the grassroots, they should wait until they have their ducks in a row before getting everyone riled up with speculation. I mean, you would think the campaign knows how fast good and bad information spreads, and how neurotic some segments of the grassroots are.

We'll just have to wait now, and hope they come out with a final, comprehensive plan. And when they do, instead of criticizing it, mobilize to make it work as well as possible.

That's the best we can do. Agreed. I'm still for calling them mercilessly and asking/demanding that the rally remain at the mall.

Hank
11-01-2007, 09:43 AM
Please keep calling them everyone!

BizmanUSA
11-01-2007, 09:44 AM
First YES I did let the ugly beast of info out of the cage this morning by posting the info.

If not me then someone else would have shortly thereafter.

A main reason was to avoid ANY FURTHER cost(s) to the many RP supporters who have spent money towards a Philly Rally at Independence National Historical Park and to alert people of a change in the works so NO ONE ELSE would waste (more) money on an event that may not happen (Still hoping it will change back)

All we can do is wait

BizmanUSA

Hurricane Bruiser
11-01-2007, 10:37 AM
Well this is crazy. I'm working on booking hotels in Philly and scheduling that event with my business plans. I thought this was set in stone weeks ago.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 10:45 AM
Well this is crazy. I'm working on booking hotels in Philly and scheduling that event with my business plans. I thought this was set in stone weeks ago.

So did everyone else. Either way - it doesn't sound like they will move it far if we can't convince them to stay at Independence mall, so let's put the pressure on and keep your plans.

UtahApocalypse
11-01-2007, 10:50 AM
I thought that the grassroots was paying for the entire rally with the chip-ins? where did that money go??????? who is padding their wallet with grassroots cash??? this is bull its ethier a grassroots rally or not, we have all been deceived and im pissed.

KewlRonduderules
11-01-2007, 10:58 AM
We don't know what is going on. PLease let's not rush to judgement. This event is going to be very huge. It is a public event and when there is an event such as this especially with the amounts of people expected to be present, I can guarantee you there will be politics involved and you are going to run into snags. It would not even surprise me if there was a deliberate attempt to sabotage the rally. Something to really think about...

There are a lot of professionals in the campaign, do anyone really think they would do this deliberately so close to the rally? Something else happened...

slantedview
11-01-2007, 11:10 AM
Semetary:

I'm sure the answer to this is YES, but have you informed the campaign how many people at the grassroots level have already fully committed themselves to the rally at the planned location on the planned date, and to move it this close is an idiotic atrocity that is going to PISS OFF the grassroots? If not, please convey this to the campaign, ASAP.

Regards
slantedview

Sematary
11-01-2007, 11:25 AM
I thought that the grassroots was paying for the entire rally with the chip-ins? where did that money go??????? who is padding their wallet with grassroots cash??? this is bull its ethier a grassroots rally or not, we have all been deceived and im pissed.

Where have you seen a chipin for the rally?
The only money collected (by me) was for event insurance. When the campaign took over the rally I sent an email to everyone who donated and asked what they wanted done with that money. Most people responded (some didn't). Those who did were split between giving it to the campaign and giving the money to be used for other costs related to the rally. Per those responses, a good chunk of the money was donated directly to the campaign. Another large chunk was given to people in the Philly meetup to promote the rally.
Now you know where the money went.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 11:26 AM
Semetary:

I'm sure the answer to this is YES, but have you informed the campaign how many people at the grassroots level have already fully committed themselves to the rally at the planned location on the planned date, and to move it this close is an idiotic atrocity that is going to PISS OFF the grassroots? If not, please convey this to the campaign, ASAP.

Regards
slantedview

they are fully aware of these things and I would encourage you to call them asap.

No Opinion
11-01-2007, 01:18 PM
It's NOT o.k., really it's not.

A lot of us just got our ass reamed.

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 01:35 PM
First YES I did let the ugly beast of info out of the cage this morning by posting the info.

If not me then someone else would have shortly thereafter.

A main reason was to avoid ANY FURTHER cost(s) to the many RP supporters who have spent money towards a Philly Rally at Independence National Historical Park and to alert people of a change in the works so NO ONE ELSE would waste (more) money on an event that may not happen (Still hoping it will change back)

All we can do is wait

BizmanUSA

Why do you keep saying this BS? It's never been called off. What they are talking about is moving the location.

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 01:36 PM
Where have you seen a chipin for the rally?
The only money collected (by me) was for event insurance. When the campaign took over the rally I sent an email to everyone who donated and asked what they wanted done with that money. Most people responded (some didn't). Those who did were split between giving it to the campaign and giving the money to be used for other costs related to the rally. Per those responses, a good chunk of the money was donated directly to the campaign. Another large chunk was given to people in the Philly meetup to promote the rally.
Now you know where the money went.

There have been chip-ins to collect money to purchase flyers. I saw another one of those just yesterday.

KewlRonduderules
11-01-2007, 01:37 PM
It's NOT o.k., really it's not.

A lot of us just got our ass reamed.


Easy on the language.

This post alone questions even why you are here. Trolling?

terlinguatx
11-01-2007, 03:10 PM
Please keep calling them everyone!

number?

brandon
11-01-2007, 03:14 PM
The chip in I started raised about 500$. I still have the money. One of two things is going to happen with it. Either it will go to reimburse the people who purchased 30,000 flyers for this event, or it will be donated on Nov 5th.

terlinguatx
11-01-2007, 03:16 PM
Not okay -- HUGE F*CKUP. GOOD WAY TO ALIENATE GRASSROOTS BASE, LOSE DONORS, LOSE MASSIVE MEDIA ATTENTION, AND CRIPPLE THE RALLY.

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 03:26 PM
Not okay -- HUGE F*CKUP. GOOD WAY TO ALIENATE GRASSROOTS BASE, LOSE DONORS, LOSE MASSIVE MEDIA ATTENTION, AND CRIPPLE THE RALLY.

Let's just try to hold off until we hear from them, ok? There may very well be a good reason, that we just don't know about right now.

me3
11-01-2007, 03:33 PM
The fact they have ruled out one location, without selecting another indicates there was some issue with the Independence Mall plan.

Some have cited money, but given how disorganized this large rally has been from the top end of the planning, it could just as well be something logistical, like a missed deadline for an application, scarce resources, or other considerations.

I have been following this all day. And not working on the campaign.

How it is handled and explained will go a long way to how I will contribute my time in the future. If the grassroots efforts aren't being considered at the top, then maybe I am just wasting my efforts.

I certainly think the Philly people who organized the Independence Mall rally deserve an apology after all of their hard work and donations, regardless of the outcome. I can only imagine the frustration and despair they have felt today.

thehittgirl
11-01-2007, 03:42 PM
The fact they have ruled out one location, without selecting another indicates there was some issue with the Independence Mall plan.

Some have cited money, but given how disorganized this large rally has been from the top end of the planning, it could just as well be something logistical, like a missed deadline for an application, scarce resources, or other considerations.

I have been following this all day. And not working on the campaign.

How it is handled and explained will go a long way to how I will contribute my time in the future. If the grassroots efforts aren't being considered at the top, then maybe I am just wasting my efforts.

I certainly think the Philly people who organized the Independence Mall rally deserve an apology after all of their hard work and donations, regardless of the outcome. I can only imagine the frustration and despair they have felt today.

I had just campaigned to a Hillary supporter and stuck a liberty card on a local news truck before finding out the news. It's not much but I guess it's another reason I blew up.

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 03:55 PM
How it is handled and explained will go a long way to how I will contribute my time in the future. If the grassroots efforts aren't being considered at the top, then maybe I am just wasting my efforts.

I certainly think the Philly people who organized the Independence Mall rally deserve an apology after all of their hard work and donations, regardless of the outcome. I can only imagine the frustration and despair they have felt today.

We don't know where the campaign stands on this or what is really going on. We have only gotten one side of things. I would not rush to judge the campaign at this point. What we have seen so far says more about the grassroots itself than about the campaign. It might actually explain more about what society will be like with less central control. Our efforts might not be wasted because of Ron Paul himself, but because our citizens aren't ready to assume so much responsibility for themselves, or because they were too quick to relinquish control of this to the campaign.

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 03:59 PM
We don't know where the campaign stands on this or what is really going on. We have only gotten one side of things. I would not rush to judge the campaign at this point. What we have seen so far says more about the grassroots itself than about the campaign. It might actually explain more about what society will be like with less central control. Our efforts might not be wasted because of Ron Paul himself, but because our citizens aren't ready to assume so much responsibility for themselves, or because they were too quick to relinquish control of this to the campaign.

WHAT??? You are just egging this whole thing on, Nefertiti, with these kinds of comments.

me3
11-01-2007, 04:05 PM
We don't know where the campaign stands on this or what is really going on.
And that is on whom?


We have only gotten one side of things. I would not rush to judge the campaign at this point.
I agree, but surely you feel for the people who did all of this promotion, got the license and have been working hard on this event for some time now.


What we have seen so far says more about the grassroots itself than about the campaign. It might actually explain more about what society will be like with less central control. Our efforts might not be wasted because of Ron Paul himself, but because our citizens aren't ready to assume so much responsibility for themselves, or because they were too quick to relinquish control of this to the campaign.
Without this grassroots, there would be no campaign. The fund raising would be at best half, and the milestone events like rallies and successful post debate poll wins would not have occurred. Dr. Paul's message is wonderful, but his campaign's strength is the grassroots. Not his offline fund raising, not his public profile and certainly not his MSM appeal.

I find your condemnation of the people who have worked hard and made sacrifices for this event really distasteful. The collectivist view in your remarks about Philly Meetups being "dysfunctional" was totally not in the spirit of the campaign.

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 04:07 PM
I'm being honest. I've learned a lot in these forums about how things would be in small government America. And frankly small domestic government isn't high on my list of reasons to support Ron Paul.

But I don't rely on just one side of the story to judge a situation nor do I appreciate the lack of logic here. Brandon is on here saying that Meetup Group 25 is no longer active. Yet if you go there, you find Semetary posting about the rally, in fact you find more activity and discussion there about the rally than the new group that he is claiming is now the only active Philadelphia group. Meetup Group 25, no matter what problems occurred with George Feeser, is the one that won the visit. If some people don't want to be part of that group anymore, fine, but it is really deceptive to say that group is no longer active when it clearly is. Group 25 are the ones saying that the location has not been determined yet, as are the official campaign. That doesn't jive with what is being claimed here.

I'm not condemning anyone except for expecting me to accept an explanation that isn't logical. For expecting me to condemn the campaign for something I do not know their position on. I know people have worked hard and it is appreciated. But if they worked so hard and turned it over to someone else to handle, they have to take responsibility for that decision if things go wrong. According to the Ron Paul Web site page about the Meetup competition, the winning group was supposed to organize a rally and he would attend. So why was it turned over to the campaign? I don't see any logic in all this. Maybe with more information it will become clearer but at this point I am just annoyed at the FUD.

brandon
11-01-2007, 04:09 PM
I'm being honest. I've learned a lot in these forums about how things would be in small government America.

But I don't rely on just one side of the story to judge a situation nor do I appreciate the lack of logic here. Brandon is on here saying that Meetup Group 25 is no longer active. Yet if you go there, you find Semetary posting about the rally, in fact you find more activity and discussion there about the rally than the new group that he is claiming is now the only active Philadelphia group. Meetup Group 25, no matter what problems occurred with George Feeser, is the one that won the visit. If some people don't want to be part of that group anymore, fine, but it is really deceptive to say that group is no longer active when it clearly is. Group 25 are the ones saying that the location has not been determined yet, as are the official campaign. That doesn't jive with what is being claimed here.

AHHH THEY ARE NOT ACTIVE. Why do you continue to talk about something that you are completly removed from? Look at thier calendar and look at the calendar of the 972 group.

What the hell is your agenda? Why are you doing this?

Please, please stop.

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 04:17 PM
Oh please, I can see this:

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/25/boards/


And explain why they have 67 rsvps for the event if they are not active?:

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/25/calendar/6608855/
'
Whether you are active in 25 or not, others seem to be, including people who have posted here today like Semetary and Meghan. Tom is an assistant organizer. I also find recent mentions in their forums about them sending out emails and holding events:

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/25/messages/boards/view/viewthread?thread=3720234

So how can you say they are not active?

brandon
11-01-2007, 04:18 PM
Oh please, I can see this:

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/25/boards/


And explain why they have 67 rsvps for the event if they are not active?:

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/25/calendar/6608855/
'
Whether you are active in 25 or not, other seem to be, including people who have posted here today.


Look at thier calendar and look at ours. How dare you try to claim you know about this situation and I dont? Are you in philly? NO. Am I? YES

brandon
11-01-2007, 04:21 PM
For expecting me to condemn the campaign for something I do not know their position on.

Here is the campaigns position. The post is from Tom, the PA state coordinator from the campaign. Notice how he says the "location has been moved"

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=30589

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 04:23 PM
THEY ARE NOT ACTIVE. FUCK YOU

Putting it in all caps does not make something so. Meghan wrote this on Oct. 25 in their forums:

"Hello to all our members,
I know you may have received an increased number of emails the past few days, I hope that is alright. A good deal of that is in relation to the rally in only two weeks and there may be more. Please be patient and enthused that this rally is going to happen."

Where are those emails coming from exactly if they aren't active? Maybe the Ron Paul spambot?

brandon
11-01-2007, 04:25 PM
Look at thier calendar and look at ours. How dare you try to claim you know about this situation and I dont? Are you in philly? NO. Am I? YES

^^^

Meghan is active. I have seen her at 2 of our functions. She is a lovely lady. The rest of the group is not. The organizer has not talked to anyone in over a month. They do not canvass philadelphia. We do.

Notice how the group is called the "greater" philadelphia group. It was an attempt to create an umbrella group for others in the region. The only reason they won the fundraiser was because they convinced meetups all over the east coast to funnel there donations through the meetup. Most of thier members are members from other groups.

Why are you doing this???

me3
11-01-2007, 04:26 PM
I'm not condemning anyone except for expecting me to accept an explanation that isn't logical. For expecting me to condemn the campaign for something I do not know their position on. I know people have worked hard and it is appreciated. But if they worked so hard and turned it over to someone else to handle, they have to take responsibility for that decision if things go wrong. According to the Ron Paul Web site page about the Meetup competition, the winning group was supposed to organize a rally and he would attend. So why was it turned over to the campaign? I don't see any logic in all this. Maybe with more information it will become clearer but at this point I am just annoyed at the FUD.
For someone who does not know both sides of the story, you sure are posting a lot of opinions.

Maybe you'll know more tomorrow, and you can come back and tell everyone where they went wrong, and how dysfunctional they are. It should be inspiring.

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 04:26 PM
Nefertiti,

All you are doing is stirring up crap. You know nothing about this situation, so why don't you just stop insulting people. The campaign will let us know, soon enough.

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 04:26 PM
Here is the campaigns position. The post is from Tom, the PA state coordinator from the campaign. Notice how he says the "location has been moved"

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=30589

He also said he isn't privy to the decisionmaking. It doesn't tell me what the campaign is thinking, just that it will be moved.

margomaps
11-01-2007, 04:27 PM
I'm being honest. I've learned a lot in these forums about how things would be in small government America. And frankly small domestic government isn't high on my list of reasons to support Ron Paul.

In what way does your experience on these forums relate to how things would be in small government America?

If anything, I think what you've witnessed is some of the difficulties inherent in anarchy. That's a faaaaaar cry from to the limited, constitutional, representative republic that Dr. Paul advocates.

Feel free to PM me if you don't want to derail this thread. Although I'm not sure derailing is even possible when we're talking about a train wreck. :D

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 04:27 PM
DAMN IT NEFERTITI... BACK OFF! All you are doing is stirring the pot. :mad:

paulicywonk
11-01-2007, 04:27 PM
deleted

brandon
11-01-2007, 04:28 PM
Putting it in all caps does not make something so. Meghan wrote this on Oct. 25 in their forums:

"Hello to all our members,
I know you may have received an increased number of emails the past few days, I hope that is alright. A good deal of that is in relation to the rally in only two weeks and there may be more. Please be patient and enthused that this rally is going to happen."

Where are those emails coming from exactly if they aren't active? Maybe the Ron Paul spambot?


Becuase someone sends emails does not make them active, anymore then you are active because you argue on a forum.

tmg19103
11-01-2007, 04:28 PM
I'm being honest. I've learned a lot in these forums about how things would be in small government America.

But I don't rely on just one side of the story to judge a situation nor do I appreciate the lack of logic here. Brandon is on here saying that Meetup Group 25 is no longer active. Yet if you go there, you find Semetary posting about the rally, in fact you find more activity and discussion there about the rally than the new group that he is claiming is now the only active Philadelphia group. Meetup Group 25, no matter what problems occurred with George Feeser, is the one that won the visit. If some people don't want to be part of that group anymore, fine, but it is really deceptive to say that group is no longer active when it clearly is. Group 25 are the ones saying that the location has not been determined yet, as are the official campaign. That doesn't jive with what is being claimed here.

I'm not condemning anyone except for expecting me to accept an explanation that isn't logical. For expecting me to condemn the campaign for something I do not know their position on. I know people have worked hard and it is appreciated. But if they worked so hard and turned it over to someone else to handle, they have to take responsibility for that decision if things go wrong.

MU-25 won the fundraising competition with the help of multiple other MU's chipping in, so MU-25 does not own sole credit. Additionally, the Organizer of MU- 25 was on vacation and the Assistant Organizers were the ones who worked for the win, they then voted no confidence for the Organizer and started their own MU. When you see the RP signs at the Democratic Rally in Philly two days ago, when you look at all the true grassroots campaigning in Philly, when you look at who handed out all the flyers for the Philly Rally Independendence Mall - it is the new MU - 972 as well as the Philly student MeetUp - MU-732.

The original Philly rally plans happened on this board and had nothing to do with a Philly MU. Regardless, the campign took over due to infighting in MU-25 and because they wanted control - AND agreed the rally would be at Independence Mall.

I'm willing to be flexible, but we are owed an explanation from the campaign after all the work a lot of people put in this and after a lot of people booked hotels and planes.

It would be great if we could still have the rally at Independence Mall, but if not, my vote is for UPenn because it is in the city close enough to Independence Mall (which makes it easier for those who have booked hotels/airfare) as opposed to Valley Forge which is 20 miles west, in the suburbs and not near any decent public transportation. the 100,00 plus college students three miles from Indendence Mall are just as close to Upenn, and 50,000 or so are within a mile.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on Independence Mall happening, but if not, it should be UPenn from a logistics standpoint even though Valley Forge has better symbolism. The best symbolism? The liberty Bell, Independence Hall and the U.S. Mint at Indpependence Mall. Yes, the grassroots figured that out. Will be intersting to see what the campaign does.

abstrusezincate
11-01-2007, 04:29 PM
None of the grassroots efforts are to be blamed in any way for this. Though there are two separate Philadelphia groups, both have been working, as have all the groups in the Philadelphia area to see whatever rally emerges to be a success.

In my capacity as state coordinator, I can tell you how invaluable they have been and how strong the grassroots effort is in Pennsylvania. Before I started this, I was the Meetup Coordinator for Pittsburgh, so I know and appreciate that the grassroots should be involved, and they were.

I know there are a number of questions about what the campaign intends, and those are being resolved. I ask for your patience and we'll make sure answers become available in good time.

I do want to say one thing though, and maybe this deserves repeating. None of us, I presume, is supporting Ron because of a single event. Each of us has found something in the message that is important to us, and that is why we make this effort. In an event like this, it's easy and understandable that people lose faith and are frustrated. I will share that you that I, like others, have my own personal frustrations about this that are not being voiced here. Those who know me will know that I have worked as hard as anyone to make the rally a success.

But, as the situation changes, that commitment cannot change. The rally looks to be somewhere else other than Independence Mall, somewhere close to Philadelphia. We need it to be a success. We need your help. You are this campaign, and though the campaign might not ever say that officially, I will say that I absolutely believe that as a personal matter.

Nothing in this campaign has ever gone precisely as planned. If it did, it would never have begun. That is what everyone has to remember: those of you coming to Philadelphia are going to have a great time and a great event. Those of you already there are going to hear the message, and find strength in that. I know, on a day like this, where there is so much expectation and hope that it is hard to remember that, but I hope you do and I hope it makes things better.

We can make this rally a big success. There were two key components, and the rest, though nice, is just symbolism. One is the message of liberty as promoted by Ron Paul. Two is you. Ron will be there. The question then, for everyone, is will you?

I will tell you more when I have it, but I hope you all consider that.

Yours,
Tom

walt
11-01-2007, 04:32 PM
DAMN IT NEFERTITI... BACK OFF! All you are doing is stirring the pot. :mad:

stop attacking every poster that doesn't agree with you.

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 04:33 PM
No Walt. That's mainly just reserved for you, when you go around saying the Revolution is over. In addition to claiming the campaign should run everything by you, because you are so full of extra special knowledge. :)

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 04:33 PM
Nefertiti,

All you are doing is stirring up crap. You know nothing about this situation, so why don't you just stop insulting people. The campaign will let us know, soon enough.

No I don't but I have simply asked questions about the illogical things that don't make sense and gotten nothing but a rude response and no explanations.

McDermit
11-01-2007, 04:34 PM
...

If this decision has anything to do with Geroge Feeser and/or his group, I'm seriously DONE with the campaign.

brandon
11-01-2007, 04:35 PM
No I don't but I have simply asked questions about the illogical things that don't make sense and gotten nothing but a rude response and no explanations.

And why exactly do you think anyone owes you an explanation? What have you done to help this rally?

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 04:35 PM
Thank you Tom for your respectful response. Keep up the good work. We look forward to hearing the new plans and of course we will do everything we can to make the best of whatever pans out.

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 04:39 PM
No I don't but I have simply asked questions about the illogical things that don't make sense and gotten nothing but a rude response and no explanations.

People have been saying that they do not know, Nefertiti. We are all waiting to find out from the campaign, what the heck is going on. In many of your posts, you seem to be blaming the grassroots, or implying they did something wrong. That's unfair and all it does is get everyone upset. Surely, you must know that.

I doubt we'll be able to understand all this until the campaign finally gets back to us. Until then, all we can do is guess and that really helps no one. In fact, it can upset a lot of people and do further damage to the campaign.

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 04:39 PM
And why exactly do you think anyone owes you an explanation? What have you done to help this rally?

Well, since I am not in Philly there isn't much I can do, except for the fact that it was my idea in the first place that there be a rally in Philly on the Mall...Is that not a good enough reason to be curious what is happening now? If the idea to do it on the Boston Harbor where they dumped the tea had entered my mind first, maybe I wouldn't have had to listen to the abuse you are piling on me now.

brandon
11-01-2007, 04:40 PM
Well, since I am not in Philly there isn't much I can do, except for the fact that it was my idea in the first place that there be a rally in Philly on the Mall...Is that not a good enough reason to be curious what is happening now? If the idea to do it on the Boston Harbor where they dumped the tea had entered my mind first, maybe I wouldn't have had to listen to the abuse you are piling on me now.

Abuse?

I am only defending myself and the rest of philadelphia from your attacks.

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 04:41 PM
People have been saying that they do not know, Nefertiti. We are all waiting to find out from the campaign, what the heck is going on. In many of your posts, you seem to be blaming the grassroots, or implying they did something wrong.


The Grassroots is blaming the campaign. The campaign as far as I can tell has never committed to the Mall location publicly. So even if I don't agree with their moving it I don't see any evidence that they have actually misled or deceived us.

McDermit
11-01-2007, 04:42 PM
The Grassroots is blaming the campaign. The campaign as far as I can tell has never committed to the Mall location publicly. So even if I don't agree with their moving it I don't see any evidence that they have actually misled or deceived us.

Perhaps not PUBLICLY, but they have absolutely committed to it - through multiple venues and on multiple occassions.

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 04:42 PM
Can we please just drop this until we get more information? This is way past ridiculous.

brandon
11-01-2007, 04:43 PM
The Grassroots is blaming the campaign. The campaign as far as I can tell has never committed to the Mall location publicly. So even if I don't agree with their moving it I don't see any evidence that they have actually misled or deceived us.

How can they move it if they never set a location to begin with?

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 04:44 PM
But why haven't they committed publicly? There has to be a good reason they don't mention the location in their rsvp, something in their minds that it might not be set in stone. Why didn't anyone ask them about this earlier?

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 04:45 PM
How can they move it if they never set a location to begin with?

Exactly the point I have been trying to make all afternoon. Everyone here is saying the campaign is moving it. Yes, they may be moving it from where people wanted it but I don't see any evidence that they actually agreed to the location in the first place.

brandon
11-01-2007, 04:46 PM
Exactly the point I have been trying to make all afternoon. Everyone here is saying the campaign is moving it. Yes, they may be moving it from where people wanted it but I don't see any evidence that they actually agreed to the location in the first place.

Wow, you make no sence at all. Tom has said several times that the location has been "moved." Did you not see this?

me3
11-01-2007, 04:47 PM
Exactly the point I have been trying to make all afternoon. Everyone here is saying the campaign is moving it. Yes, they may be moving it from where people wanted it but I don't see any evidence that they actually agreed to the location in the first place.
How can they move it if they weren't in control of it at Independence Mall?

walt
11-01-2007, 04:47 PM
Can we please just drop this until we get more information? This is way past ridiculous.


the HQ lied - at 10AM today they said this would be made clear in "a few hours".

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 04:49 PM
Brandon-Are you just asking rhetorical questions or did you just ask two contradictory questions in your last two posts?

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 04:49 PM
Still trying to stir things up, eh Walt? What's your goal? Are you doing your best to get us to revolt or what?

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 04:50 PM
We don't know that hq said that. Someone claimed here that they called them and they said this.

What we know from HQ is that there will be a rally somewhere in Philadelphia on Nov. 10 and it will be attended by Ron Paul. That's all good.

McDermit
11-01-2007, 04:50 PM
But why haven't they committed publicly? There has to be a good reason they don't mention the location in their rsvp, something in their minds that it might not be set in stone. Why didn't anyone ask them about this earlier?

We DID ask. Before we printed up materials advertising. We were told it WOULD be at the Indy Mall. Sheesh.

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 04:52 PM
Who told you?

Believe me, I'm not trying to stir things up here but obviously there are communication issues here. The more we know about this the better we can be prepared to avoid these problems in the future. I don't know about all you but I am supporting Ron Paul all the way and would hope that understanding this situation better will improve things in the future so we can avoid problems.

brandon
11-01-2007, 04:52 PM
Yes it was a rhetorical question.

Tom said the location has been "moved"

I was testing your logic by asking you how something can be moved if it was never anywhere to begin with.

McDermit
11-01-2007, 04:53 PM
We don't know that hq said that. Someone claimed here that they called them and they said this.

What we know from HQ is that there will be a rally somewhere in Philadelphia on Nov. 10 and it will be attended by Ron Paul. That's all good.

JESUS. TOM IS THE PA COORDINATOR. HE WORKS FOR THE CAMPAIGN. HE SAID IT WOULD BE AT INDY MALL ON THE 10TH AT 12PM.

Get it?

Now today, he said it is being MOVED. The word MOVED indicates that a location had been set - and it is now being changed. Had a location never been solidified, it would be an announcement saying "Hey! We've finally picked a location!" No, it's "Hey, Sorry, but we have to MOVE the Rally."

:rolleyes:

brandon
11-01-2007, 04:53 PM
Who told you?

TOM, THE STATE COORDINATOR FROM THE CAMPAIGN. THE SAME GUY WHO POSTED IN THIS THREAD AND SAID IT HAD BEEN MOVED.

Are you joking?

McDermit
11-01-2007, 04:55 PM
Not only Tom, but also Brandon at HQ and another guy who's name I can't recall. We all made numerous calls to HQ before getting materials designed/printed.

In fact, HQ specifically approved the slim jims that group 972 had printed - and they had the date/time/location on them.

No way around it, HQ had set the date, and has now changed it for whatever stupid reason.

McDermit
11-01-2007, 05:02 PM
Oct 25th email from PA Coordinator as was forwarded to one of the meetups, with sensitive information removed. The location had been discussed previously and all recieving this email knew it was Indy Mall. Note, Tom said we could share the location with everyone.:



Good Morning,

I have some new information to share with you.

1. The rally will be happening from noon to 3 pm. That has been confirmed.
2. The title being promoted is "Philadelphia Ron Paul Rally sponsored by Veterans for Paul".
9. Expect a press release to be issued sometime this weekend or early next week.
10. Expect a large press presence including "Nightline".

That's what we know. Now, there are other issues that you guys can handle.

We need to have a list of hotels for people visiting to be able to stay at. I hope someone can compile that, and potentially arrange discounts.

Many people are asking about activities later that evening. It would be good if that was somewhat organized and people were gathering in one area. Informally, of course.

To everyone: Please do not release these details publicly. You can inform the people working with you to make this happen, however. People can know about the Veterans part, the name, and the place.

Yours,
Tom


Tom Kawczynski
State Coordinator - Pennsylvania
Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign Committee

brandon
11-01-2007, 05:05 PM
Just to clarify, the responsibility for this most likely does not fall on Tom. However, he works for the campaign and has been the official mouthpiece for information regarding the rally

McDermit
11-01-2007, 05:29 PM
Yeah, this obviously isn't Tom calling the shots. It's someone at HQ though... and whoever it is deserve a swift kick in the ass. This shit should have been handled months ago.

drexhex
11-01-2007, 05:37 PM
Well guys there has been a few cop shootings in center city the past few days... maybe they're worried about security?

Sematary
11-01-2007, 05:49 PM
Well guys there has been a few cop shootings in center city the past few days... maybe they're worried about security?

Please. You think there is a problem with security with 5000+ supporters standing around in broad daylight?

drexhex
11-01-2007, 05:52 PM
Please. You think there is a problem with security with 5000+ supporters standing around in broad daylight?

I don't personally, but I'm not a campaign manager for a presidential candidate. Campaign managers might see a potential issue, although they should just get Secret Service if that was the issue...

Just throwing my ideas out there, trying to make sense of their decision (it's obviously not money).

LibertyEagle
11-01-2007, 06:30 PM
No way around it, HQ had set the date, and has now changed it for whatever stupid reason.

Let's wait and see what the reason was. It may not have been stupid at all. Let's just see.

McDermit
11-01-2007, 06:40 PM
Let's wait and see what the reason was. It may not have been stupid at all. Let's just see.

I guarantee that it was stupid.

And that HQ dropped the ball.

As of the 25th, the permits still had not been finalized for whatever they were doing, nor had all speakers been confirmed. They dropped the ball big time. And this is stupid.

Sematary
11-01-2007, 07:45 PM
I guarantee that it was stupid.

And that HQ dropped the ball.

As of the 25th, the permits still had not been finalized for whatever they were doing, nor had all speakers been confirmed. They dropped the ball big time. And this is stupid.

As you know, the permits were finalized months ago.

Phenom24
11-01-2007, 08:13 PM
I had a nastygram written out, but wasn't it Abe Lincoln who said something like the best letters go unsent? Or something to that effect?

Dang I want to be so mad, because this is like someone telling you Christmas is cancelled.

I hate big crowds indoors. I have claustrophobia. Outside isn't so bad. The Mall would have been fine.

CRAP!

Nefertiti
11-01-2007, 08:15 PM
We should all sleep on it and maybe we will have some better ideas in the morning.

McDermit
11-01-2007, 09:42 PM
As you know, the permits were finalized months ago.

No, they weren't. The permits you got were.... but they wanted to do other shit that they needed permits for. As of Oct 25th, they were still being worked on and hadn't even submitted final applications.

How's that for dropping the ball? :mad: