NYT - The Master’s as the New Bachelor’s

[Anti Federalist]

I guess $100,000 of student loan debt isn't enough out of the gate.



The Master’s as the New Bachelor’s

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/education/edlife/edl-24masters-t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&ref=us&src=me

By LAURA PAPPANO
Published: July 22, 2011

William Klein’s story may sound familiar to his fellow graduates. After earning his bachelor’s in history from the College at Brockport, he found himself living in his parents’ Buffalo home, working the same $7.25-an-hour waiter job he had in high school.

It wasn’t that there weren’t other jobs out there. It’s that they all seemed to want more education. Even tutoring at a for-profit learning center or leading tours at a historic site required a master’s. “It’s pretty apparent that with the degree I have right now, there are not too many jobs I would want to commit to,” Mr. Klein says.

So this fall, he will sharpen his marketability at Rutgers’ new master’s program in Jewish studies (think teaching, museums and fund-raising in the Jewish community). Jewish studies may not be the first thing that comes to mind as being the road to career advancement, and Mr. Klein is not sure exactly where the degree will lead him (he’d like to work for the Central Intelligence Agency in the Middle East). But he is sure of this: he needs a master’s. Browse professional job listings and it’s “bachelor’s required, master’s preferred.”

Call it credential inflation. Once derided as the consolation prize for failing to finish a Ph.D. or just a way to kill time waiting out economic downturns, the master’s is now the fastest-growing degree. The number awarded, about 657,000 in 2009, has more than doubled since the 1980s, and the rate of increase has quickened substantially in the last couple of years, says Debra W. Stewart, president of the Council of Graduate Schools. Nearly 2 in 25 people age 25 and over have a master’s, about the same proportion that had a bachelor’s or higher in 1960.

[Exponent]

Monetary inflation, meet degree inflation.

The more units you print, the less valuable each one becomes, eh?

[Anti Federalist]

Monetary inflation, meet degree inflation.

The more units you print, the less valuable each one becomes, eh?

Amazing how that works, isn't it?

[amy31416]

Amazing how that works, isn't it?

Back when I got my Bachelor's degree, we actually had a course in career "stuff." At that point chemists with Master's degrees were (dollar for dollar) the most highly paid because most companies didn't want to hire a PhD because he was too "specialized." And those who got PhD's were generally paid less because most of them went into academics--which didn't pay nearly as much as the private sector.

Seems that things have changed/are changing. Fuck it, I'll go brew some beer....

[Rael]

What do you expect from a history degree?

[BlackTerrel]

Monetary inflation, meet degree inflation.

The more units you print, the less valuable each one becomes, eh?

This.

I'm not 30 yet and when I was a kid I remember going to college being impressive. Now half the idiots I know have a degree.

[daviddee]

....

[Anti Federalist]

///

New cops and dog story.

NVM I see you read it already...

[madengr]

He calls the proliferation of master’s degrees evidence of “credentialing gone amok.” He says, “In 20 years, you’ll need a Ph.D. to be a janitor.”

This can be paid with your inflated federal reserve notes, so it really won't cost anything.:rolleyes:

Some areas like engineering, even drilling down to electrical engineering, are too broad a field and a MS is well worth it if you really want to get into the tech, as opposed to a sales/support job. This was true 20 years ago even.

[Kylie]

I can honestly say I have never been asked about any educational background in any job I have ever worked. These are top paying jobs in high tech...

The only thing that matters is experience. If you do not have experience then a degree might help, but I truly believe starting low, learning as much as you can, and moving up the food chain is a far better tactic than pissing cash away on a degree. In 4 years you can get paid a modest wage, get on the job training, etc. and move up quickly in most any field if you have a reasonable amount of drive and intelligence.

The other thing is this mindset that a "shit" degree in some subject that will never generate cash means anything. I knew a chick (who was working in porn at the time) who actually had a masters in archaeology (face to palm). I asked her if she ever used it... "No, other than the digs we did while I was in university".


This is what I did too.

Started working as a clerk, learned everything there was to learn about everything in operations/s&r/inventory, etc. From there I was promoted 3 times in one year(they had to go to corporate to get the okay for one of the promotions since it had never been done in the company) and I ended up being a supervisor of 100+ guys. No piece of paper needed.

But I don't need any of that now, since I work for me. :D

[No Free Beer]

thats his problem. he majored in history

[specsaregood]

William Klein’s story may sound familiar to his fellow graduates. After earning his bachelor’s in history from the College at Brockport,


I'm no fan of the college degree requirement; but even then, this guy has himself to blame. History? Really? What'd ya learn there that you couldn't learn from reading books from the library and watching the history channel?

This is why we need a free market in education and especially student loans. If he had to get his student loans from a bank or entity that didn't have government guaranteeing the money this is a question they would have asked before giving him the money. "You want us to loan you 6figures for a history degree? GTFO of my office!"

[ghengis86]

I'm no fan of the college degree requirement; but even then, this guy has himself to blame. History? Really? What'd ya learn there that you couldn't learn from reading books from the library and watching the history channel?

This^

I love history and read and watch all that I can on the past. As part of my colleges liberal arts philosophy, I had to take some credits in modern history. Never bought the course book or studied and never got anything less than a B on exams. History is definitely something that can be self taught. I can see how hard sciences require more instruction, equipment/labs, etc., but even those barriers are crumbling. There is a guy who's put an entire math program online with youtubes from simple arithmetic to algebra to calculus. All free.

You are the only limiting factor when it comes to how educated you want to be.

[Carehn]

What do you expect from a history degree?

LOL thats what I was thinking. This kid must not be all that sharp. People need to start understanding that the collage counselor works for the collage. When they say you will make 80 grand right off the bat, they mean 20 grand if you can find a job.

[Aden]

There is a guy who's put an entire math program online with youtubes from simple arithmetic to algebra to calculus. All free.

Can you throw up a link to his channel?




What really annoys me is when the state declares that you need a license to work certain jobs. You cannot get a license unless you obtained a bachelors, and in some cases a masters or higher, from an accredited university.

I have seen first hand examples of the state-licensed worker, fresh out of college, knowing almost nothing about her job, yet she is the only one who is legally allowed to perform certain functions for the patient or client. Meanwhile she is getting paid five to ten times more money than the technician, assistant or helper who knows far more than her because they have apprenticed on the job for the past eight years, instead of sitting in a classroom like the licensed "professional."

I would not be the least bit surprised if colleges and universities lobbied government to make certain occupations require licensing. And of course, to become licensed you have to attend their schools.

[madengr]

http://www.khanacademy.org/

And get this:


Banking and Money

Videos on how banks work and how money is created.

Banking 1
Banking 2: A bank's income statement
Banking 3: Fractional Reserve Banking
Banking 4: Multiplier effect and the money supply
Banking 5: Introduction to Bank Notes
Banking 6: Bank Notes and Checks
Banking 7: Giving out loans without giving out gold
Banking 8: Reserve Ratios
Banking 9: More on Reserve Ratios (Bad sound)
Banking 10: Introduction to leverage (bad sound)
Banking 11: A reserve bank
Banking 12: Treasuries (government debt)
Banking 13: Open Market Operations
Banking 14: Fed Funds Rate
Banking 15: More on the Fed Funds Rate
Banking 16: Why target rates vs. money supply
Banking 17: What happened to the gold?
Banking 18: Big Picture Discussion
The Discount Rate
Repurchase Agreements (Repo transactions)
Federal Reserve Balance Sheet
Fractional Reserve Banking Commentary 1
FRB Commentary 2: Deposit Insurance
FRB Commentary 3: Big Picture
LIBOR

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

I was talking about this to my sister. She is the IT manager over at the hospital. And they just hired on a bunch of straight of college MBA's for this new project paying them 40k a year. They are complaining about the pay and work habits suck.

[Cowlesy]

In my experience, people who go for History degrees oftentimes end up with PhDs or Law Degrees. If you want to study the History of Art & Life, you better have wealthy parents who can afford to support your life of leisure, or have connections to the art world to get you a job. A Turfgrass Management degree from PSU will yield you a better chance at getting a job than a degree in the classics.

[Anti Federalist]

////

[angelatc]

After earning his bachelor’s in history .... Duh.

[james1906]

This guy shouldn't complain, seeing as all the clerks at Borders with PhDs in literature will soon be out of work.

[mtmedlin]

After I got my bachelors I still found it hard to get employment, now I have a masters and STILL find it hard at times. The real issue I have (hope I dont piss off anyone) is that there are so many online BS schools that hand out degrees. I used to work with several University of Phoenix grads and they couldnt write worth a crap. It seems now that if you have the cash you can have a degree. Huge difference in receiving a Masters from a Tier 1 research institute and a Phoenix degree but the market is flooded with that crap!

[Philhelm]

What do you expect from a history degree?

Tom Woods...?

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

Tom Woods...?

Yea, what I was thinking. Apparently those of us who got degrees in history are just shit-flinging morons....

[DamianTV]

I think another very large problem is that the quality of the education has been consistently declining. A Bachelors Degree today is what a High School Diploma would have been 40 or 50 years ago. As the quality of public education contines to spiral ever downward, the quality of the Higher Education is forced to compensate, by picking up what the public school (indoctrination center) system failed to teach and Colleges have to go back to teaching the very basics.

[Krugerrand]

I think another very large problem is that the quality of the education has been consistently declining. A Bachelors Degree today is what a High School Diploma would have been 40 or 50 years ago. As the quality of public education contines to spiral ever downward, the quality of the Higher Education is forced to compensate, by picking up what the public school (indoctrination center) system failed to teach and Colleges have to go back to teaching the very basics.

Excellent observation.

[reillym]

After I got my bachelors I still found it hard to get employment, now I have a masters and STILL find it hard at times. The real issue I have (hope I dont piss off anyone) is that there are so many online BS schools that hand out degrees. I used to work with several University of Phoenix grads and they couldnt write worth a crap. It seems now that if you have the cash you can have a degree. Huge difference in receiving a Masters from a Tier 1 research institute and a Phoenix degree but the market is flooded with that crap!

Yep. It's a shame that these "colleges" are even allowed to persist and/or people don't understand that they are scams.


Yea, what I was thinking. Apparently those of us who got degrees in history are just shit-flinging morons....

Don't you know? Getting a degree is just "indoctrination" according to people on this forum.


I think another very large problem is that the quality of the education has been consistently declining. A Bachelors Degree today is what a High School Diploma would have been 40 or 50 years ago. As the quality of public education contines to spiral ever downward, the quality of the Higher Education is forced to compensate, by picking up what the public school (indoctrination center) system failed to teach and Colleges have to go back to teaching the very basics.

I would love to hear what "indoctrination" you received in high school.

[AGRP]

The Masters degree is the new Bachelors degree. Everyone and their brother has an MBA. Masters will soon be useless 5 years from now when everyone has a Masters. Then the PhD. will be the only in demand degree.

It's best just to get into another degree that is in demand or learn a highly marketable skill.

[DamianTV]

...

I would love to hear what "indoctrination" you received in high school.

Me? I didnt get fantastic grades in school but I excelled in Physics, Chemistry, Algebra which led to Trig and Calculus. Classes that brought my GPA down were classes like English Literature (teacher implied hidden religious content in non religious books in a public school, constantly thumped her bible at me), US Govt (for obvious reasons), and whatever my 1st period class was, usually because I didnt feel like getting out of bed.

By their standards, I wasnt a perfect student, but my point on my statement wasnt about me. Todays High School Education considers Advanced Physics to be "this is a door, you cant walk through it without opening it first", Advanced Chemistry to be nothing more than a glorified Cooking class, and English is a 2nd language to more than half of the students. My point was that the quality of the education has declined, and people are now being manipulated into paying Higher Learning Centers (College) for what used to be provided by the Public School System.