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DamianTV
07-24-2011, 04:38 PM
It's a Cracked.com Two Page Article. Kind of Dead On, and Kind of Funny.

Read at your Own Risk!

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-being-poor/?wa_user1=3&wa_user2=Weird+World&wa_user3=blog&wa_user4=popular


#5.You Get Charged for Using Your Own Money

This is the future, where many businesses no longer accept cash as payment. That means you are required to have a checking account to function in the economy. And if you're poor, that means at some point you're going to get bank-fucked.

Because having a checking account while poor doesn't just mean you have to be responsible and good at math -- you have to be perfect. Meticulous, flawless record keeping is the difference between surviving and having the bank seize your next paycheck.

http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/3/1/5/59315.jpg?v=1

Agorism
07-24-2011, 04:57 PM
Having a kid is like taking out a 500 hundred thousand dollar loan.

As soon as he did that, he was permanently in debt basically. It might pay off in 30 years.

MelissaWV
07-24-2011, 05:02 PM
Meh... most of that stuff really is just an exercise in irresponsibility. He bought a house when he didn't really want to, without having money to pay for upkeep. He let a water leak go on and on without fixing it because he didn't have the money (but didn't stop the water, so was shocked at his $500 water bill?). He went to a payday loan place. He got a shitty job and says that he can't swap jobs because of a dozen reasons.

Frankly, most of this wasn't about being poor. I thought it was going to be things like "hotels will sometimes let you use a spare room to shower in, if you ask nicely," and "until you can afford food, Saturday is a great day to fast, lie still, and conserve strength for the work week." The writer is not poor by my standards.

MelissaWV
07-24-2011, 05:06 PM
Having a kid is like taking out a 500 hundred thousand dollar loan.

As soon as he did that, he was permanently in debt basically. It might pay off in 30 years.

That could have been point #6: It's always cheaper to just use a condom.

pcosmar
07-24-2011, 05:13 PM
I have never been freer than when I had a backpack that carried all my worldly belongings.

I miss those days sometimes.

Agorism
07-24-2011, 05:14 PM
I'm not saying don't have kids. Just know that you're taking out a 500 thousand dollar loan, and it will cost for you for the next 20 years.

Carehn
07-24-2011, 06:38 PM
Look, I'm gunna go ahead and say it. Most people are Poor because they are stupid. Now in this modern economy that will no longer be true. We will all be poor. We must sacrifice our wealth for the good of... climate... God... no lets say the tribe.

But in the good old days people where poor because they where stupid. You go down to walmart and tell me im wrong.

Anti Federalist
07-24-2011, 09:47 PM
Could not agree with this list more...

5 Things That Are Being Automated That Probably Shouldn't Be

http://www.cracked.com/article_18697_5-things-that-are-being-automated-that-probably-shouldnt-be.html?wa_user1=2&wa_user2=Tech&wa_user3=article&wa_user4=recommended

specsaregood
07-24-2011, 10:01 PM
I'm not saying don't have kids. Just know that you're taking out a 500 thousand dollar loan, and it will cost for you for the next 20 years.

If your kid is costing you 25k/year then you have a spoiled brat for a kid.

libertarian4321
07-25-2011, 05:01 AM
Look, I'm gunna go ahead and say it. Most people are Poor because they are stupid. Now in this modern economy that will no longer be true. We will all be poor. We must sacrifice our wealth for the good of... climate... God... no lets say the tribe.

But in the good old days people where poor because they where stupid. You go down to walmart and tell me im wrong.

Walmart shoppers range from paupers to millionaires, but most are middle class, not welfare recipients.

MelissaWV
07-25-2011, 05:11 AM
If your kid is costing you 25k/year then you have a spoiled brat for a kid.

Larger house, different class of vehicle, child care, diapers, medical insurance upgrade, medical bills, school supplies, extra gas to drive them around, extra food, all bills being higher because there's another person, paying for them to be born, sometimes an extra car altogether, furniture, etc..

Of course, it depends on where you are and how much you make, and $500,000 is a slight hyperbole. It appears that the average in many areas is half of that (without college). In other areas it's $475,000 or so ... not including college.

All of this assumes your child will leave when they turn 18 and not ask you for another dime.

aGameOfThrones
07-25-2011, 05:22 AM
Meh... most of that stuff really is just an exercise in irresponsibility. He bought a house when he didn't really want to, without having money to pay for upkeep. He let a water leak go on and on without fixing it because he didn't have the money (but didn't stop the water, so was shocked at his $500 water bill?). He went to a payday loan place. He got a shitty job and says that he can't swap jobs because of a dozen reasons.

Frankly, most of this wasn't about being poor. I thought it was going to be things like "hotels will sometimes let you use a spare room to shower in, if you ask nicely," and "until you can afford food, Saturday is a great day to fast, lie still, and conserve strength for the work week." The writer is not poor by my standards.

Yup.

UWDude
07-25-2011, 10:23 AM
Look, I'm gunna go ahead and say it. Most people are Poor because they are stupid.

people are poor because they have no familial wealth, therefore no back up if something goes wrong, therefore an intolerance for risk, which means they take jobs that are available, not jobs they want, and work those. They don't start businesses because they cannot get a loan, or are afraid of the size of a loan.

A lot of people are proud of what they have accomplished in life, and love their family. They love their family for many reasons, one of them being their family was always there for them if something went wrong. This could also mean their family was there for them, assuring them they could go to college, instead of making a 17 year old kid fret not about good grades, plenty of poor kids are straight A students, but how to pay for the college. Not only that, but internships are usually unpaid positions. they are one of the best ways to get into profitable careers, but require an alternative money stream to pay for living expenses. Having a family to pay for these living expenses sure can help on the road to success.

Fact is, most people living middle class and upper middle class lifestyles can do so because they always had family to fall back on. Even if they did not have to use it, knowing it was there was enough.

A lot of people are also poor because they are ugly. Yup, being ugly is a severe hamper on your ability to make money. it also comes with social problems that impeded networking and self-confidence, and makes people make bad choices for the sake of social acceptance. Social acceptance is more valuable to an ugly person than a beautiful person, because it is more rare. Beautiful people will get better breaks in life. Ugly people work in the kitchen of IHOP, beautiful people are waiters at Chez L'argent.

I could probably list 50 more reasons poverty is not related to intelligence, but I'll stop with those two. Life is far more complex than your rich = smart, poor = stupid paradigm.

Dustancostine
07-25-2011, 10:42 AM
I'm not saying don't have kids. Just know that you're taking out a 500 thousand dollar loan, and it will cost for you for the next 20 years.

Why in the world are you going to pay for a kid after they are 18? Plus kids are not that expensive. I have 3, to say that it cost me $75,000 a year for me kids is crazy.

Dustancostine
07-25-2011, 10:45 AM
p
A lot of people are also poor because they are ugly. Yup, being ugly is a severe hamper on your ability to make money. it also comes with social problems that impeded networking and self-confidence, and makes people make bad choices for the sake of social acceptance. Social acceptance is more valuable to an ugly person than a beautiful person, because it is more rare. Beautiful people will get better breaks in life. Ugly people work in the kitchen of IHOP, beautiful people are waiters at Chez L'argent.



Once again being Ugly has more to do with education than genetics. Some people are just ugly that my be true, but most people who are considered ugly by society are because of their eating and grooming habits. If they were more intelligent and made better choices they would be more attractive.

UWDude
07-25-2011, 10:45 AM
Larger house, different class of vehicle, child care, diapers, medical insurance upgrade, medical bills, school supplies, extra gas to drive them around, extra food, all bills being higher because there's another person, paying for them to be born, sometimes an extra car altogether, furniture, etc..

Of course, it depends on where you are and how much you make, and $500,000 is a slight hyperbole. It appears that the average in many areas is half of that (without college). In other areas it's $475,000 or so ... not including college.

All of this assumes your child will leave when they turn 18 and not ask you for another dime.

And if your parents cant afford those things, you go without. No band classes, can't afford the instrument rental. No athletic activities, cannot afford to drive you to and from practice or pay for the gear. No computer, cant afford it (when they were $2000). No nice things, like maybe a camera or 7 year old car. All of these things add up. People with the toys often get to pursue careers related to the toys, like computer science, or photography, or music. They also build better networking through sports or music or other hobbies.

And college? yeah right. Poor kids do not think about college.

Carehn
07-25-2011, 10:46 AM
people are poor because they have no familial wealth, therefore no back up if something goes wrong, therefore an intolerance for risk, which means they take jobs that are available, not jobs they want, and work those. They don't start businesses because they cannot get a loan, or are afraid of the size of a loan.

A lot of people are proud of what they have accomplished in life, and love their family. They love their family for many reasons, one of them being their family was always there for them if something went wrong. This could also mean their family was there for them, assuring them they could go to college, instead of making a 17 year old kid fret not about good grades, plenty of poor kids are straight A students, but how to pay for the college. Not only that, but internships are usually unpaid positions. they are one of the best ways to get into profitable careers, but require an alternative money stream to pay for living expenses. Having a family to pay for these living expenses sure can help on the road to success.

Fact is, most people living middle class and upper middle class lifestyles can do so because they always had family to fall back on. Even if they did not have to use it, knowing it was there was enough.

A lot of people are also poor because they are ugly. Yup, being ugly is a severe hamper on your ability to make money. it also comes with social problems that impeded networking and self-confidence, and makes people make bad choices for the sake of social acceptance. Social acceptance is more valuable to an ugly person than a beautiful person, because it is more rare. Beautiful people will get better breaks in life. Ugly people work in the kitchen of IHOP, beautiful people are waiters at Chez L'argent.

I could probably list 50 more reasons poverty is not related to intelligence, but I'll stop with those two. Life is far more complex than your rich = smart, poor = stupid paradigm.
I understand that some people are poor who are not stupid. and some people are rich who are. But Money is a fairly good barometer. The bigger government gets the smarter you have to be to even make middle class. Now in a free country it would be damn hard to be poor. DAMN HARD.

In this modern economy money does not go to the best product or the most efficient, it goes to those who know the right people. Now that's not to say the barometer does not still have some merit... and i should point out that there is nothing wrong with being stupid or poor so long as you do your best... Sometimes when you have rain man smarts you have no money at all because your a social freak. Some times when your a fucking retard you win the lotto. Thats ok. but for the most part you have no money because your are worth nothing to nobody because you are a stupid ass who is not even capable of basic math. And like i said that OK but don't expect the pay of someone who is reasonably intelligent.


Most people are poor because they are stupid. Go to walmart and tell me I'm wrong.

The ugly thing is very true. it rejects you from certain jobs. but it is hardly a barrier to someone willing to think.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQV4JMiijK8KvyCfJ8EO7aGonLjI4WKB yEPSAHyULOuws8paRQw

This guy is an ugly duck and can only move one finger. Yet his mind is capable even now of feeding him nicely. Now i thought money only came to the beautiful and connected. Uh.

UWDude
07-25-2011, 10:48 AM
Once again being Ugly has more to do with education than genetics. Some people are just ugly that my be true, but most people who are considered ugly by society are because of their eating and grooming habits. If they were more intelligent and made better choices they would be more attractive.

Braces cost money, that poor parents do not have. Fashionable clothes cost money, fashionable shoes cost money. Good grooming materials are expensive, and parents often will not or cannot afford them for their kids. And you can not groom away a large nose on a girl, or just plain ugliness.

UWDude
07-25-2011, 10:52 AM
I understand that some people are poor who are not stupid. and some people are rich who are. But Money is a fairly good barometer. The bigger government gets the smarter you have to be to even make middle class. Now in a free country it would be damn hard to be poor. DAMN HARD.

It is easy to be poor if you come from a destitute family.


but for the most part you have no money because your are worth nothing to nobody because you are a stupid ass who is not even capable of basic math. And like i said that OK but don't expect the pay of someone who is reasonably intelligent.

Such B.S. Plenty of people who did great in school still end up in dead end, lower class jobs. Do you think everybody you meet working at Safeway, Lowes, Mcdonalds, or any other low wage service job was just a B- or C student?


Most people are poor because they are stupid. Go to walmart and tell me I'm wrong.

I know a lot of lower class people who do not shop at Wal-Mart,. and a lot of middle class that do.

Dustancostine
07-25-2011, 10:55 AM
Braces cost money, that poor parents do not have. Fashionable clothes cost money, fashionable shoes cost money. Good grooming materials are expensive, and parents often will not or cannot afford them for their kids. And you can not groom away a large nose on a girl, or just plain ugliness.

Good grooming materials are not expensive.

Fashionable clothes do not cost money if you know where to buy them. I wear name brands and I buy them all from Goodwill at very cheap prices and so do my kids, even though I can afford brand name at full price. And the children's place has sales every month for $2 and $3 items. It has to do with intelligence not affordability.

And when was the last time a big nose on a girl was a deal breaker on attractiveness?

Braces, yes expensive, but bad teeth have more to do with eating and brushing than with genetics. And once again when was slightly messed up teeth a deal breaker?

UWDude
07-25-2011, 10:58 AM
Why in the world are you going to pay for a kid after they are 18? Plus kids are not that expensive. I have 3, to say that it cost me $75,000 a year for me kids is crazy.

There was a Money or Fortune magazine article I read about when you should stop paying your kid's rent. We are talking about kids who have graduated from college, and parents are still paying their bills and rent. And if you have been to college, you see plenty of kids still sucking of the teet of their parents and living large.

UWDude
07-25-2011, 11:01 AM
Good grooming materials are not expensive.

They are if you parents do not think you are worth it.


Fashionable clothes do not cost money if you know where to buy them. I wear name brands and I buy them all from Goodwill at very cheap prices and so do my kids, even though I can afford brand name at full price. And the children's place has sales every month for $2 and $3 items. It has to do with intelligence not affordability.

You buy them fashionable shoes at goodwill? How old are your kids? What a nice parent. Now, not everybody has parents that provide things for them, and they won't buy them anything. It is not because the kid is stupid, it is because their family will not support them.



And when was the last time a big nose on a girl was a deal breaker on attractiveness?
Braces, yes expensive, but bad teeth have more to do with eating and brushing than with genetics. And once again when was slightly messed up teeth a deal breaker?

Why are we talking about "dealbreakers". I am not talking about dating, I am talking about marketability. You are trying to tell me people can wash the ugly away, and brush and floss crooked teeth away.

BTW, we are on two points I brought up, that defy the poor = stupid argument. There are dozens more.

TheViper
07-25-2011, 11:03 AM
I understand that some people are poor who are not stupid. and some people are rich who are. But Money is a fairly good barometer. The bigger government gets the smarter you have to be to even make middle class. Now in a free country it would be damn hard to be poor. DAMN HARD.

In this modern economy money does not go to the best product or the most efficient, it goes to those who know the right people. Now that's not to say the barometer does not still have some merit... and i should point out that there is nothing wrong with being stupid or poor so long as you do your best... Sometimes when you have rain man smarts you have no money at all because your a social freak. Some times when your a fucking retard you win the lotto. Thats ok. but for the most part you have no money because your are worth nothing to nobody because you are a stupid ass who is not even capable of basic math. And like i said that OK but don't expect the pay of someone who is reasonably intelligent.


Most people are poor because they are stupid. Go to walmart and tell me I'm wrong.

There is another correlation with being wealthy and that's being rude, crass and indifferent.

If you want to call poor people stupid, then by the same token you need to call rich people rude assholes.

Carehn
07-25-2011, 11:05 AM
It is easy to be poor if you come from a destitute family.



Such B.S. Plenty of people who did great in school still end up in dead end, lower class jobs. Do you think everybody you meet working at Safeway, Lowes, Mcdonalds, or any other low wage service job was just a B- or C student?



I know a lot of lower class people who do not shop at Wal-Mart,. and a lot of middle class that do.

Yes im aware of the exceptions but it does not take away from my point. And safeway and such does not make a person poor. Thats a good job. Im talking Poor, not average. Poor. like this guy.
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Business/images/homeless-people.jpg
Ya. he looks like a rocket scientist. To bad his massive intellect could not overcome his 5 o'clock shadow.

UWDude
07-25-2011, 11:07 AM
The ugly thing is very true. it rejects you from certain jobs. but it is hardly a barrier to someone willing to think.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQV4JMiijK8KvyCfJ8EO7aGonLjI4WKB yEPSAHyULOuws8paRQw

This guy is an ugly duck and can only move one finger. Yet his mind is capable even now of feeding him nicely. Now i thought money only came to the beautiful and connected. Uh.
http://static.poponthepop.com/files/paris-hilton-is-a-pothead.jpg

We can do this all day

Dustancostine
07-25-2011, 11:07 AM
Why are we talking about "dealbreakers". I am not talking about dating, I am talking about marketability. You are trying to tell me people can wash the ugly away, and brush and floss crooked teeth away.



Dating is the ultimate marketability, though I didn't bring up dating at all, just said dealbreaker.

And if your parents don't value your appearance then I would say that is pretty stupid.

I am not saying kids who are poor are stupid, but kids are not responsible for their situation their parents are. Now when those kids get to reasoning age, say 14-ish and they continue the stupid ways of their parents, then I would say they are stupid too. Is it their fault, no, it is the parent's but it doesn't change the situation.

BTW: My father came from a dirt poor background, and he improved himself by not being as stupid as his parents. And yes in many ways my grandparents were stupid. My father did learn some stupid traits from his parents, for instance he eats too much sugary food and as a result has diabetes, but continues to eat the stuff, one day it will kill him because he is being ignorant of the facts and I tell him so. Likewise, I grew up not dirt poor but not wealthy either, there were a lot of stupid things I have had to shed that I learned from my parents, and there are some still that I probably exhibit that are stupid, but I am always trying to improve myself and get rid of those learned negative traits.

Carehn
07-25-2011, 11:08 AM
There is another correlation with being wealthy and that's being rude, crass and indifferent.

If you want to call poor people stupid, then by the same token you need to call rich people rude assholes.

I guess. how does that take away from my point?

UWDude
07-25-2011, 11:11 AM
Yes im aware of the exceptions but it does not take away from my point. And safeway and such does not make a person poor. Thats a good job. Im talking Poor, not average. Poor. like this guy.
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Business/images/homeless-people.jpg
Ya. he looks like a rocket scientist. To bad his massive intellect could not overcome his 5 o'clock shadow.

You can hardly raise a family on $14 an hour. Safeway is hardly a good job, and plenty of other, non-union jobs pay less than Safeway.
http://xfinitytv.comcast.net/blogs/files/2009/12/jersey-shore44.jpg

Like I said, we can do this all day. But the more we do it, and the more example/counter-examples we pull out, the more it dilutes the rich = smart, poor = stupid formula.

TheViper
07-25-2011, 11:13 AM
I guess. how does that take away from my point?

I'll let you think on it a while.


Also, poor doesn't mean just living on the streets. That's the extreme end of poor. Poor goes all the way up until it hits the bottom end of middle class.

UWDude
07-25-2011, 11:17 AM
And if your parents don't value your appearance then I would say that is pretty stupid.

Who is stupid? Now we are coming back to familial wealth. And what if parents plain cannot afford grooming materials or clothes, even goodwill? I remember my mom bitching about women who said they were poor but could still afford make-up.


Now when those kids get to reasoning age, say 14-ish and they continue the stupid ways of their parents, then I would say they are stupid too. Is it their fault, no, it is the parent's but it doesn't change the situation.

So now we get to the whole "Anybody can become a millionaire" rhetorical flair. Yeah, a 14 year old can spend his paper route money on his looks and fashion magazines, but then he cant spend it on a computer or a camera. Meanwhile, a kid whose parent support him can spend his money on a computer, because his parents are already buying him grooming materials and magazines.

Statistically, those with a leg up will always maintain that leg up. Yes, those without can rise, but they will have to work twice as hard to do so, and therefore, will be twice as likely to fail.


Likewise, I grew up not dirt poor but not wealthy either, there were a lot of stupid things I have had to shed that I learned from my parents, and there are some still that I probably exhibit that are stupid, but I am always trying to improve myself and get rid of those learned negative traits.

I grew up dirt poor. Like eating rice and liver for dinner for weeks at a time dirt poor. Like government cheese and butter dirt poor. Like Goodwill was too expensive dirt poor. Like hand-me down free shoes that didn't fit dirt poor. I am also a lifetime straight A student and a University graduate.

And I am smart enough to know a donkey when I see one.

Dustancostine
07-25-2011, 11:45 AM
So now we get to the whole "Anybody can become a millionaire" rhetorical flair. Yeah, a 14 year old can spend his paper route money on his looks and fashion magazines, but then he cant spend it on a computer or a camera. Meanwhile, a kid whose parent support him can spend his money on a computer, because his parents are already buying him grooming materials and magazines.

Statistically, those with a leg up will always maintain that leg up. Yes, those without can rise, but they will have to work twice as hard to do so, and therefore, will be twice as likely to fail.



The reason that those with a leg up keep the leg up, has to do with knowledge not wealth. Smart/Weathly people pass down smart habits and knowledge so those people have a leg up, where as poor/stupid people pass on negative habits and knowledge, making it harder for poor kids to catch up to the wealthy. Wealth does make it easier but we are not talking about the wealthy we are talking about the poor.

Why do you think that most poor people who win the lottery go back to being poor when their money runs out. If money was the only factor in getting a leg up, this would not be the case.

Also if you have read "Freakanomics", there is an interesting study that shows that children with a large numbers of books in the house make better grades than kids with little to no books in the house (similar to your example where poor kids have no money and wealthy kids do). The study pointed out that even though there was a correlation with books to making good grades, just dumping a lot of books into a home would not improve the "no books" kid's grades. That it was the parents education level and parent's priorities that brought the books into the home and contributed to the child's intelligence. The same can be said in your example. It is not the actual wealth that gives a wealthy kid a leg up, but his parents intelligence that both provides the leg up for the child and which also provides for the current economic situation of the child's home.

I challenge you to show me a poor person who has made smart decisions their entire life and could not get out of being poor. (This does not include those that are "happy" with their status quo, I wouldn't even call these people poor) You cannot do it.

UWDude
07-25-2011, 12:00 PM
The reason that those with a leg up keep the leg up, has to do with knowledge not wealth. Smart/Weathly people pass down smart habits and knowledge so those people have a leg up, where as poor/stupid people pass on negative habits and knowledge, making it harder for poor kids to catch up to the wealthy. Wealth does make it easier but we are not talking about the wealthy we are talking about the poor.

LoL. Please sort your thoughts out before posting them, smart/rich guy.


Wealth does make it easier but we are not talking about the wealthy we are talking about the poor.

LoL really? I thought we were talking about both, are we comparing and contrasting the poor with nothing? Actually, WTF are you talking about, do you even know? Everything you have written has been platitudes.


Why do you think that most poor people who win the lottery go back to being poor when their money runs out. If money was the only factor in getting a leg up, this would not be the case.

Why are you talking about the lottery and Stephen hawking? why are you using extreme examples to prove your point, when we are trying to talk about the majority of people? And lastly, smart poor people don't play the lottery, period. So only stupid poor people can win the lottery.


Also if you have read "Freakanomics", there is an interesting study that shows that children with a large numbers of books in the house make better grades than kids with little to no books in the house (similar to your example where poor kids have no money and wealthy kids do). The study pointed out that even though there was a correlation with books to making good grades, just dumping a lot of books into a home would not improve the "no books" kid's grades. That it was the parents education level and parent's priorities that brought the books into the home and contributed to the child's intelligence. The same can be said in your example. It is not the actual wealth that gives a wealthy kid a leg up, but his parents intelligence that both provides the leg up for the child and which also provides for the current economic situation of the child's home.

Higher education levels are strongly correlated with higher incomes. Better food, better hygiene, better clothes, less social anxiety, better support for after school activities, better hope for college... ..the list goes on and on and on.


I challenge you to show me a poor person who has made smart decisions their entire life and could not get out of being poor. (This does not include those that are "happy" with their status quo, I wouldn't even call these people poor) You cannot do it.

I challenge you to show me anyone that has made smart decisions their entire life.


Tell me this, smart/rich guy. What class level do you consider yourself? Middle class? Does that mean you also consider yourself only to be of standard intelligence? By your logic, all the kids on Jersey shore are smarter than you, because they had more money the day they graduated high school than you had in ten years of working. Perhaps you should go ask "the situation" for some money management pointers, and Snookie about how to lead a more productive life.

UWDude
07-25-2011, 12:07 PM
And while you are thinking about how to get around my last question, middle class/average intelligence guy, think about this:

My European history professor asked, "what was the cause of the French revolution?" I said loudly "hatred", she said "taxes".
It wasn't just that the first and second estates were not getting taxed, while the third was, it was also because, the first and second estates acted like they were superior to everyone. That fomented hatred. Keeping talking your class-warfare, self-righteous bullshit, and you will drive far more to the cause of socialism than that of liberty, I guarantee it.

Dustancostine
07-25-2011, 12:35 PM
And while you are thinking about how to get around my last question, middle class/average intelligence guy, think about this:

My European history professor asked, "what was the cause of the French revolution?" I said loudly "hatred", she said "taxes".
It wasn't just that the first and second estates were not getting taxed, while the third was, it was also because, the first and second estates acted like they were superior to everyone. That fomented hatred. Keeping talking your class-warfare, self-righteous bullshit, and you will drive far more to the cause of socialism than that of liberty, I guarantee it.

Sorry UWDude, but I am wealthy. I didnot start out that way, but I am, and getting more so everyday due to my hard work and intelligence. I am not one to brag, but since you asked, I am letting you know. If you are poor I guarantee it is because you have made poor decisions. Also if you cannot follow my reasoning, please go back read it slow and break it down into bites that you can chew. Sorry if it was too much for you.


Higher education levels are strongly correlated with higher incomes. Better food, better hygiene, better clothes, less social anxiety, better support for after school activities, better hope for college... ..the list goes on and on and on.

Sounds like to me higher education is correlated with better decision making.

And yes the members of Jersey Shore are smart. #1 they have worked hard to create a persona that the American public will buy. Just because someone acts like a clown for a lot of money doesn't mean they are a clown every day of their life, quit believing in every thing you see on t.v. #2 They have also worked hard to get to that point. Look at the situation. He has a body that women like, not because he is rich, but because he has worked his ass off and made smart nutritional decisions (intelligence).

And if you think the third class of Revolutionary French society were "poor" people, then you need to hit the books more, they were not royalty/nobility, but they were the lower-middle/middle/ upper class of the French business society. Everything thing from peasants (the land renting farmers, small business people, not agricultural slaves as our modern term means) to wealthy business owners.

Here is place for you to start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_French_Revolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peasent

And I am not talking class warfare, it is you with your entitlement/victim persona that is the exact reason people are socialist. The attitude that it is not your responsibility for your own actions but your starting point or oppression that is keeping you down.

I don't know your economic status, nor is it relevant, nor do I care. But people who make poor decisions regardless of their perceived intelligence, are poor decisions makers, and inevitably will end up with less material wealth than those who make good decisions regardless of their "book" knowledge.

If you want to increase your social position and wealth regardless of where you are, instead of blaming your circumstances or other people, take a hard look in the mirror, wipe the chip off your shoulder, and make intelligent decisions to change your way of life to obtain what you want, no matter whether it is wealth, health, happiness or anything else your heart desires.

UWDude
07-25-2011, 12:39 PM
Sorry UWDude....

Sorry DustinConstine, but our discussion is over.

Vessol
07-25-2011, 01:05 PM
Good article in the way that it points out how fucking hard it can get sometimes with many things. Especially the one with cars breaking down and such.

So far in my life I've gone from..poverty(living in a basement until I was 5), to lower middle class, to middle class, to homeless, to lower middle class, to poverty, and now since I've moved back in with my mother and sister, lower middle class again. I guess it's a pretty pathetic thing to move back in with a parent, but I like the fact that I can now eat more than once a day and can actually use air conditioning/heating.

I also like the debate that poor=dumb. I'd like to reckon the question: How do you define smart? Ask any individual, and the vast majority will say that they are slightly above average on the smartness scale. It's a pretty fucking subjective term.
As for riding a windy roller-coaster of financial status, I've noticed many things that make people poor and wealthy. For becoming wealthy, it mainly in my experience has to do with hard work and a lot of luck.

Becoming poor and staying poor often has nothing to do with intelligence level, but it more often involves personal issues. Addiction is the biggest one. Addiction to any number of things can pull someone further and further into the hole. Addiction is not caused by stupidity, but rather by personal issues from one's past more often than not. Abuse in childhood is the most likely cause of most of it, as studies have correlated the two very closely. Those who were abused as a child, are more likely to be poor and have many personal issues, and also are more likely to abuse if they are parents. It's a vicious circle.

Dustancostine
07-25-2011, 01:24 PM
Good article in the way that it points out how fucking hard it can get sometimes with many things. Especially the one with cars breaking down and such.

So far in my life I've gone from..poverty(living in a basement until I was 5), to lower middle class, to middle class, to homeless, to lower middle class, to poverty, and now since I've moved back in with my mother and sister, lower middle class again. I guess it's a pretty pathetic thing to move back in with a parent, but I like the fact that I can now eat more than once a day and can actually use air conditioning/heating.

I also like the debate that poor=dumb. I'd like to reckon the question: How do you define smart? Ask any individual, and the vast majority will say that they are slightly above average on the smartness scale. It's a pretty fucking subjective term.
As for riding a windy roller-coaster of financial status, I've noticed many things that make people poor and wealthy. For becoming wealthy, it mainly in my experience has to do with hard work and a lot of luck.

Becoming poor and staying poor often has nothing to do with intelligence level, but it more often involves personal issues. Addiction is the biggest one. Addiction to any number of things can pull someone further and further into the hole. Addiction is not caused by stupidity, but rather by personal issues from one's past more often than not. Abuse in childhood is the most likely cause of most of it, as studies have correlated the two very closely. Those who were abused as a child, are more likely to be poor and have many personal issues, and also are more likely to abuse if they are parents. It's a vicious circle.

Vessol I agree with you. When debating smart/dumb for this argument I was talking about decision making. I personally think it is stupid to make decisions that are contrary to your health, though we all do it, some more than others, I think it is important to own up that it was in fact stupid. A person may claim they are smart and even know what the intelligent thing to do in a situation and still not have the will power do it, instead they make a stupid decision. I think it is important to own up when something is stupid.

swiftfoxmark2
07-25-2011, 01:36 PM
All those points highlighted a series of dumb decisions more than a system which purposely keeps people poor. Everything he listed could be avoided.

Freedom 4 all
07-25-2011, 02:45 PM
I know a lot of lower class people who do not shop at Wal-Mart,. and a lot of middle class that do.

Case in point: My cousin is the multimillionaire owner of a medium sized engineering firm. He admits to occasionally shopping at Wal Mart and even Salvation Army. IMO that's being a huge tool but it happens.

specsaregood
07-25-2011, 02:49 PM
//

MelissaWV
07-25-2011, 04:01 PM
Good grooming materials are not expensive.

Fashionable clothes do not cost money if you know where to buy them. I wear name brands and I buy them all from Goodwill at very cheap prices and so do my kids, even though I can afford brand name at full price. And the children's place has sales every month for $2 and $3 items. It has to do with intelligence not affordability.

And when was the last time a big nose on a girl was a deal breaker on attractiveness?

Braces, yes expensive, but bad teeth have more to do with eating and brushing than with genetics. And once again when was slightly messed up teeth a deal breaker?

Once again, though, this all comes down to the definition of poverty. When I was homeless, I had combs and the like, but taking a "bath" by dipping some napkins in water and rubbing off the dirt is not going to make someone as polished-looking as someone with access to a bathroom. Wet naps help, but yeah... you get the idea. There were times when that "omg it's so cheap" $2 and $3 you are talking about was what I had to buy groceries/food with for the day... or two... or three.

As for your earlier comment about it being ridiculous to think it costs you $75,000/year to support kids... maybe, maybe not. I think people are considering just the direct things they buy for their children. That's actually a very tiny portion of it. You say you have three children. I am guessing you do not live in a one-bedroom apartment :p You probably do not drive a little bitty gas-friendly coupe. Depending on their age, you spend a great deal on items like diapers, or school supplies.

There are ways to get a lot of things for free or cheap, yeah, but we were talking about averages.

asurfaholic
07-25-2011, 04:52 PM
Look, I'm gunna go ahead and say it. Most people are Poor because they are stupid. Now in this modern economy that will no longer be true. We will all be poor. We must sacrifice our wealth for the good of... climate... God... no lets say the tribe.

But in the good old days people where poor because they where stupid. You go down to walmart and tell me im wrong.

I went to Walmart to check, and.. you are wrong. They aren't stupid, they are very stupid. And inconsiderate, and stinky. And to watch what they buy - booze booze booze. No wonder they are so poor.

Not to be ugly either - most people choose to be poor. And it isn't hard to see why either - I go downtown new bern to work in the ghetto - some lights blew out. For one, the Housing Authority is paying for it. The tenant has no responsibility for the upkeep of their place, they they trash it and live like everything is ok. They don't have to work, literally hundreds of people are sitting under the shade trees drinking beer that they bought with food stamps. They receive enough money to buy decent cars or cheap cars with big rims. They have plenty of spare time to sell drugs if they so choose, so they make more cash on top of the govt money. They look at me like I am the scum of the earth.

And here I am, working my ASS off so I can pay 200 a week out of my paycheck into taxes.

Now that I said all that, maybe they aren't so stupid after all. Maybe I'm the one doing it all wrong...

MelissaWV
07-25-2011, 04:54 PM
They take EBT cards for beer now? Astounding.

The collectivism in this thread is pretty damned sad, though.

asurfaholic
07-25-2011, 05:01 PM
They take EBT cards for beer now? Astounding.

The collectivism in this thread is pretty damned sad, though.

Well, I can't say that they actually used the food stamps to BUY the beer, but you know... they sell 2:1 ratio.....who needs food when you can have cash and beer? And there is a big market of people who want to buy a $100 card for $50. Just sayin..

specsaregood
07-25-2011, 05:12 PM
Well, I can't say that they actually used the food stamps to BUY the beer, but you know... they sell 2:1 ratio.....who needs food when you can have cash and beer? And there is a big market of people who want to buy a $100 card for $50. Just sayin..

It's not that easy any longer, because the cards have a pin # and they are linked to people so they have to use the same card every month. Plus IIRC, if they receive other monetary aide its put on the same card. I think the amount of fraud like you speak of has been reduced considerable since the days where they gave out actual food stamps on paper.

ghengis86
07-25-2011, 05:35 PM
Poor people are poor b/c they chose to be black. It's the rich Joos that are holding them back. Oh yeah, and the illegal brownies just jumped the fence with nothing but their clothes, and the don't even bother to learn English, so of course they're poor (but not poor enough to steal our jobs)!! And those trailer trash honkies just refuse to learn how to read and only want to cook meth and have more trailer trash babies.
/sarc (for those that couldn't figure it out)

The poor are not a static social class; people are constantly moving in and out of poverty for various reasons. Yes, there are some people that will always be poor, just as some will be rich. But the vast majority of people move through multiple economic classes throughout their lives. Most people strive to better their lot in life. To think there is just one lump of poor people never changing, who are choosing for whatever reason to remain in poverty is ignorant.

But back to the OP, that shit made me laugh. Banks do fuck you over, no matter who you are.

asurfaholic
07-25-2011, 05:36 PM
That's interesting, because I still hear of these things being sold - maybe I'm missing something. In any case, there's plenty of money for beer. I can testify to that.

And also, just for the record, I am not racist, and even though earlier I said that "most people choose to be poor," I don't really mean that - I am sure there are people who are hurting and wishing they could find a job so they can support their families. My heart goes out to those who truly need, and not just take take take.

Carehn
07-25-2011, 06:08 PM
You can hardly raise a family on $14 an hour. Safeway is hardly a good job, and plenty of other, non-union jobs pay less than Safeway.
http://xfinitytv.comcast.net/blogs/files/2009/12/jersey-shore44.jpg

Like I said, we can do this all day. But the more we do it, and the more example/counter-examples we pull out, the more it dilutes the rich = smart, poor = stupid formula.
My examples are main stream. your pushing it. Im sorry they are 'stupid' enough to have a family on 14 bucks an hour. Sorry they constantly make stupid choices with money. sorry they put them selfs in stupid situations where shit is more likely to go wrong. Sorry about all the stupid shit poor people do that drives them into or keeps them in poverty. I guess all that stupid shit is just a coincidence because god forbid we call the person stupid.

Now you can go ahead and tell me about some mom who's husband left her and she lost a eye and got hit by a truck and the place where she worked burnt down and act like that is the common cause of poverty. Just bad f-ing luck. but you know as well as the rest of us its not true. YOU KNOW that most, and by most im talking 98% of poor people are poor because THEY ARE STUPID.

Even stupid people with only the smallest amount of knowledge in some craft can find work enough to feed them. If all you know how to do is pound nails then by god you best use that knowledge and trade up. but if your SOOOOO STUPID that you can stay sober for 8 hours or remember even to come to work at McDonalds, If you has so little brain power that you cant even learn to be a door man, Yep your gunna be poor. and you know why???


Because all wealth is the product of mans mind. All of it! Not a single drop of wealth has ever been created by any other means. Not a bit from looks or who you know or how many guns you have. Nope, all wealth comes from thought. and it took someone to think about employing hot chicks at coffee shops, or conning saps into giving them cash for the down on there luck poor people.

I know you think you are being noble or something but the truth is your defending ideas that are destroying the world. You don't even know it. Stop making excuses because they sound nice and you could say them in the class room without getting a white slip. You are wrong and deep down you know it.

Carehn
07-25-2011, 06:09 PM
I'll let you think on it a while.


Also, poor doesn't mean just living on the streets. That's the extreme end of poor. Poor goes all the way up until it hits the bottom end of middle class.
Tell that to people who are actually poor.

UWDude
07-25-2011, 09:19 PM
My examples are main stream. your pushing it.

What? You've never been to a frat house or a city dance club? Those places are teeming with trust fund babies.


Im sorry they are 'stupid' enough to have a family on 14 bucks an hour.

Oh.... My.... God....


Sorry they constantly make stupid choices with money.

How do you know?


sorry they put them selfs in stupid situations where shit is more likely to go wrong. Sorry about all the stupid shit poor people do that drives them into or keeps them in poverty. I guess all that stupid shit is just a coincidence because god forbid we call the person stupid.

A broken thermostat or timing chian hurts a poor person a lot more than it does a middle class person, but happens to all of them eventually. Actually, it happens to poor peopel more often becaus ethey cant afford a timing chain replacement every 45,000 miles, nor can they afford a new car. So they have to buy old cars whose timing chains break.


Now you can go ahead and tell me about some mom who's husband left her and she lost a eye and got hit by a truck and the place where she worked burnt down and act like that is the common cause of poverty. Just bad f-ing luck. but you know as well as the rest of us its not true. YOU KNOW that most, and by most im talking 98% of poor people are poor because THEY ARE STUPID.

No, really, I don't know that at all.


Even stupid people with only the smallest amount of knowledge in some craft can find work enough to feed them. If all you know how to do is pound nails then by god you best use that knowledge and trade up. but if your SOOOOO STUPID that you can stay sober for 8 hours or remember even to come to work at McDonalds, If you has so little brain power that you cant even learn to be a door man, Yep your gunna be poor. and you know why???

A lot of people are focused on survival, not getting ahead. It may be easy for a single person to get ahead on a fast food job, but if someone has family, they may end up getting stuck.



Because all wealth is the product of mans mind. All of it! Not a single drop of wealth has ever been created by any other means. Not a bit from looks or who you know or how many guns you have. Nope, all wealth comes from thought. and it took someone to think about employing hot chicks at coffee shops, or conning saps into giving them cash for the down on there luck poor people.

What utter bullshit. Some people are born into wealth, and some people have stolen wealth with guns. Ghengis Khan was not what I would consider a great entrepreneur, and the kids at Jersey Shore were born wealthy. They didn't get where they are by good morals and a hard work ethic.


I know you think you are being noble or something but the truth is your defending ideas that are destroying the world. You don't even know it. Stop making excuses because they sound nice and you could say them in the class room without getting a white slip. You are wrong and deep down you know it.

I was born dirt poor. I lived it. I know exactly what it is like. Deep down, I know it is your sense of superiority because of your class and wealth that makes you believe it also confirms your intelligence / smartness. There was a time, when intellect was not valued as much as piety. Then people would believe they were wealthy because they were more godly than the peasants, when in reality, many of them were quite horrid Christians. As a matter of fact, through out history, the rich have always believed it was something innately superior about themselves, be it being in God's favor, or having noble blood, or having more common sense than the lowly peasant masses. It is far more flattering to believe you are rich because you are superior, or come from a superior family, or bloodline, or religion, than to believe you are rich because you got lucky. What I find amazing is I have read and met many rich men who say getting rich meant being in the right time, at the right place, a little hard work and a whole lot of good luck.

Carehn
07-25-2011, 09:32 PM
Ok man. I guess you will just have to continue and look at wealth as if its a thing of magic. It comes and goes for no reason what so ever and in no way is connected with production, thought, responsibility or trade. Continue if you want to think that money is a thing to be stolen or inherited or found. Go on and continue to turn a blind eye to what money really is.

What ever you need to tell yourself in order to justify what ever the hell philosophy helps you sleep at night. But I suggest you take a second look at how your view of wealth and money fits in with your political stance. Your contradicting yourself. at some point you will be forced to resolve this contradiction.
No you didn't say money is the root of all evil. but i think this would do you some good if your willing to spend 10 mins or so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GK_fRM8SO0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlyE0KRgbg4&feature=related

Carehn
07-25-2011, 09:35 PM
How do you know?

Its self-evident.

UWDude
07-25-2011, 09:41 PM
It comes and goes for no reason what so ever and in no way is connected with production, thought, responsibility or trade.

Yeah, strawman. Rephrase what I said into solid absolutes, then congratulate yourself for knocking down the easy argument. Good for you. Pat yourself on the back and give yourself a handshake.

No, I'm not watching your videos that will debunk the straw man you even admit I didn't say. But you can watch them again, if it makes you feel better.

Carehn
07-25-2011, 09:57 PM
Yeah, strawman. Rephrase what I said into solid absolutes, then congratulate yourself for knocking down the easy argument. Good for you. Pat yourself on the back and give yourself a handshake.

No, I'm not watching your videos that will debunk the straw man you even admit I didn't say. But you can watch them again, if it makes you feel better.

I guess i was trying to construct your ideas in a manor that was understandable for the both of us. Sorry i will not do that again. Stay in the foggy grey nothing if you want. I don't blame you for not wanting to come to the true realization of what you seem to be advocating. If videos are not your thing i would be happy to recommend some good books on the matter.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_n7RltmTdk-g/TAH68ETU-8I/AAAAAAAATJg/ZqV5Uwej_-c/s1600/see-no-evil-hear-no-evil-speak-no-evil.jpg
You seem to be rooted too deeply in the ideas of Rousseau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Jacques_Rousseau) for this conversation to go anywhere. I will PM you with some book titles and you can do what you want with them.

Vessol
07-25-2011, 11:41 PM
That's interesting, because I still hear of these things being sold - maybe I'm missing something. In any case, there's plenty of money for beer. I can testify to that.

And also, just for the record, I am not racist, and even though earlier I said that "most people choose to be poor," I don't really mean that - I am sure there are people who are hurting and wishing they could find a job so they can support their families. My heart goes out to those who truly need, and not just take take take.

You live in New Bern, crazy, I live right in Bridgeton. Yeah I know and understand what you are talking about. I have seen it myself very often. The Wal-Mart in New Bern is crowded near the beginning of the month with a lot of people selling their EBT cards.

UWDude
07-25-2011, 11:51 PM
I guess i was trying to construct your ideas in a manor that was understandable for the both of us.

No, you were setting up a strawman. Either that, it is you who has not tried to understand what I am saying. why are you trying to construct my ideas? I have stated my Ideas. They do not need refashioning. You can state your own ideas, or counter ideas, but I do not need you to reconstruct my ideas so I can understand my own ideas. I understand my own ideas perfectly well, and I believe I have stated them here in this thread quite clearly.


Sorry i will not do that again.

Why do I doubt it?


Stay in the foggy grey nothing if you want.

I think I shall. Because I know in reality, human nature fogs up all idealist and fantastic worldviews. I prefer the pragmatist's blurry gray to the idealist's pomp of simple black and white. The world, and human nature is so much more complex than that. There are tens of millions of hard working poor people in America today, who are beautiful people, with wonderful hearts, hard, responsible workers who mean no harm, and only wish to do their best and work their hardest. No matter how hard they work, no matter how well they manage their money, they will always be poor. The best they can do is to make a better life for their children, and millions do. If their children continue the work of their parents, then the grand children can start to live comfortably. But that does not mean the grand children are smart, it means they were lucky enough to be 3rd or fourth generation Americans, not first or second. If these grandchildren keep the exact same work ethics and attitude as their grandparents, surely they can expect great wealth.

But wait. Why were the grandparent poor, yet the grandchildren became rich? They had the exact same work ethic and money management. thye both were frugal and wise. Yet the grandparents died poor, their grandchildren die rich. Why? I've answered it before, I'll answer it again: familial wealth.



I don't blame you for not wanting to come to the true realization of what you seem to be advocating.

I am advocating something now? Do you see me presenting solutions? Have I presented any solutions in this thread? Or is it perhaps, you want to put something on me, to claim I am advocating something, so that you may tear it down? I will tell you what I am advocating, to you and all the other asses calling poor people stupid. Stop being asses, it only makes you look like asses.


You seem to be rooted too deeply in the ideas of Rousseau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Jacques_Rousseau) for this conversation to go anywhere. I will PM you with some book titles and you can do what you want with them.

Save your books and insults and pop psychology. Yeah, I know who Rousseau is, and read Discourse on Inequality, *last year*. But my ideas about familial wealth I have been talking with others and pondering for over a decade. Rags to riches is rare, even in free societies, but especially in most societies. Over generations, a poor family can become rich, but that is as much because wealth is accrued and passed on as it is "good habits". Furthermore, the trend has been for all humankind to become wealthier and live better.

I have proposed two (of many) factors of why the poor stay poor, one being attractiveness, the other being familial wealth and risk. Nobody has even challenged the premises of familial wealth yet, and ugliness got a limp-wristed slap back that failed because of perspective. $5 shampoo and $20 monthly zit medication may seem like nothing to someone raised middle class, but to the poor, it can be quite a bit of money. Plus it has been shown multiple times in multiple studies that tall men make more money. (every inch of height amounts to a salary increase of about $789 per year) http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/Careers/02/02/cb.tall.people/

These ideas do not come from books, they come from observation and thought. They are my own. I do read a lot of books, especially history, since that was my major. And the patterns are worldwide, in all cultures. However, the more a society strives for egalitarianism, the more successful it becomes, because all the poor people who were never afforded chances end up proving that they are not so stupid after all.

heavenlyboy34
07-25-2011, 11:54 PM
I was born dirt poor. I lived it. I know exactly what it is like. Deep down, I know it is your sense of superiority because of your class and wealth that makes you believe it also confirms your intelligence / smartness. There was a time, when intellect was not valued as much as piety. Then people would believe they were wealthy because they were more godly than the peasants, when in reality, many of them were quite horrid Christians. As a matter of fact, through out history, the rich have always believed it was something innately superior about themselves, be it being in God's favor, or having noble blood, or having more common sense than the lowly peasant masses. It is far more flattering to believe you are rich because you are superior, or come from a superior family, or bloodline, or religion, than to believe you are rich because you got lucky. What I find amazing is I have read and met many rich men who say getting rich meant being in the right time, at the right place, a little hard work and a whole lot of good luck.
Have you read "Think And Grow Rich" and/or Napoleon Hill's other books? Check it out-it may change your mind.

DamianTV
07-26-2011, 01:53 AM
Ok man. I guess you will just have to continue and look at wealth as if its a thing of magic. It comes and goes for no reason what so ever and in no way is connected with production, thought, responsibility or trade. Continue if you want to think that money is a thing to be stolen or inherited or found. Go on and continue to turn a blind eye to what money really is.

What ever you need to tell yourself in order to justify what ever the hell philosophy helps you sleep at night. But I suggest you take a second look at how your view of wealth and money fits in with your political stance. Your contradicting yourself. at some point you will be forced to resolve this contradiction.
No you didn't say money is the root of all evil. but i think this would do you some good if your willing to spend 10 mins or so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GK_fRM8SO0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlyE0KRgbg4&feature=related

Wow! That was... Dark.

junkmonkey
07-26-2011, 02:13 AM
I have never been freer than when I had a backpack that carried all my worldly belongings.

I miss those days sometimes.

My room is a huge dump. I am cleaning it up now (throwing out or selling stuff) and I feel that that will free me.

MelissaWV
07-26-2011, 04:58 AM
What originally got me poor was my then-boyfriend and I both losing our jobs on the same day just after I had moved to the DC area. He got a severence check or two, and I did not. I had gotten an apartment in keeping with the job I had just taken, and it was not exactly a luxurious place. From there, the next job was the desperate temp data entry position. There were a few other low-paying jobs that hardly paid for themselves between gas to get there and the clothing that was mandatory. Every check was spoken for long before it appeared. The power bill sometimes rolled into "we're going to cut off your power" status. Just around the time we were evicted, my guy got a job, and it was a good one. Unfortunately we were homeless, so that meant I had $1/day to eat so that I could provide him with $15/day for food and transportation. If you look poor at your job, you will not get anywhere, trust me.

I worked off and on during that time but it was incredibly difficult because it meant leaving what little property we had vulnerable to theft. It also was tough to find jobs, let alone jobs that more than paid for themselves. We did finally get another apartment and crawl out of that particular level of poverty, though that apartment often found us on foot (no car) or without power or without food.

Please oh please lecture me on how all poor people are stupid drunks or druggies.

There is a huge element of chance or, more accurately, factors way above your head and beyond your control. To deny it is utter folly.

...

One last thing? It's "you're."

amy31416
07-26-2011, 05:28 AM
Yes im aware of the exceptions but it does not take away from my point. And safeway and such does not make a person poor. Thats a good job. Im talking Poor, not average. Poor. like this guy.
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Business/images/homeless-people.jpg
Ya. he looks like a rocket scientist. To bad his massive intellect could not overcome his 5 o'clock shadow.

There are always exceptions. I was panhandled by a fellow who used to work for NASA when I lived in Baltimore--and no, the fellow who panhandled didn't tell me that, his son (who I went to school with) did. Mental illness ran rampant in his family and he figured that someday he'd end up the same way, regardless of his degrees. His father didn't look all that much different.

In another case, we have a local men's shelter here that I used to donate to and one of the fellows who stayed there for about a month was an MD who also had some mental health issues. According to the nun who runs the place, he did eventually get his shit together, but not without help.

I've known enough poor people, whether "white trash" or "ghetto" folks, to know better than to proclaim them generally stupid. I've known enough rich people to understand that a lot of it is luck...and good family support.

AceNZ
07-26-2011, 07:27 AM
I was raised by a single father who started out poor. My mom is a public health nurse, who used to work on Skid Row in L.A. -- so I've been around a lot of poor people. Based on my experience, they seem to fall into several camps:

1. The unlucky. This is the majority. For most people who are poor, it's a temporary thing.
2. The uneducated. Some people just never learned how to not be poor. Particularly common if they are born into poverty. Most can be taught if they're willing to learn, although in my experience, many are not willing to learn.
3. The lazy. Some people just don't want to work or learn or care for themselves. The seem to actually enjoy being poor. This includes a certain type of criminal.
4. The mentally ill. Quite a few poor people I've known have some type of mental illness that prevents them from viewing and dealing with reality in a rational way. They might be psychotic or bipolar or so full of anxiety that they can't get or hold a job. I would put alcoholics and drug addicts in this category too.
5. The stupid. Yes, some people are stupid. They can't learn what they need to know in order to function in society.

Has anyone else tried to work with the poor? I tried several times, and found it to be an immensely frustrating experience. It seems like all I heard was "I can't," "I don't want to," "I could never," and other negativity. Either that, or endless empty promises and bullshitting. Trying to get someone to actually act was like pulling teeth.

As someone once said "poor folks got poor ways." Couldn't agree more.

Carehn
07-26-2011, 08:35 AM
Wow! That was... Dark.

Did you learn anything?

FiannaPaul
07-26-2011, 09:30 AM
I have never been freer than when I had a backpack that carried all my worldly belongings.

I miss those days sometimes.

'Free' in this sense just means having nothing to lose

PaulConventionWV
07-26-2011, 05:29 PM
I understand that some people are poor who are not stupid. and some people are rich who are. But Money is a fairly good barometer. The bigger government gets the smarter you have to be to even make middle class. Now in a free country it would be damn hard to be poor. DAMN HARD.

In this modern economy money does not go to the best product or the most efficient, it goes to those who know the right people. Now that's not to say the barometer does not still have some merit... and i should point out that there is nothing wrong with being stupid or poor so long as you do your best... Sometimes when you have rain man smarts you have no money at all because your a social freak. Some times when your a fucking retard you win the lotto. Thats ok. but for the most part you have no money because your are worth nothing to nobody because you are a stupid ass who is not even capable of basic math. And like i said that OK but don't expect the pay of someone who is reasonably intelligent.


Most people are poor because they are stupid. Go to walmart and tell me I'm wrong.

The ugly thing is very true. it rejects you from certain jobs. but it is hardly a barrier to someone willing to think.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQV4JMiijK8KvyCfJ8EO7aGonLjI4WKB yEPSAHyULOuws8paRQw

This guy is an ugly duck and can only move one finger. Yet his mind is capable even now of feeding him nicely. Now i thought money only came to the beautiful and connected. Uh.

LOL I was just going to post that picture of Hawking! Good one.

PaulConventionWV
07-26-2011, 05:32 PM
'Free' in this sense just means having nothing to lose

I can imagine why it would feel good, though. Have you ever watched "Into the Wild"?