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View Full Version : Imagine air security without the TSA




Sam I am
07-19-2011, 10:33 AM
How would you secure your airport without a global agency.

Would you have people go through an additional checkpoint between connecting flights?
If you went through a checkpoint between flights, and they found an item that they didn't like, would you want them to confiscate it?

Would there be different security checkpoints for each airline's area?

Would you go through security on your way off a flight?

How do you imagine this would work?

Deinonychus
07-19-2011, 10:41 AM
How would you secure your airport without a global agency.


Like we did before 9/11.

How did the terrorists hijack the planes? By using items they were allowed to bring. It wasn't a failure in security.

pcosmar
07-19-2011, 10:46 AM
Security?
Define please.

I flew in the 70s, and a couple times in the 80s. Much less intrusive and statistically very safe.
Air piracy existed, the TSA did not. Flying was much more comfortable and cheaper than it is today.

I believe a complete change in Foreign Policy would make everything in the world more "secure".

ForLiberty2012
07-19-2011, 10:46 AM
Like we did before 9/11.

How did the terrorists hijack the planes? By using items they were allowed to bring. It wasn't a failure in security.

Game, set, match. Have a nice day.

fisharmor
07-19-2011, 10:54 AM
I wouldn't have to imagine it.
Right now I have to imagine what happens in airports because I no longer go to them.
If there was no TSA I would have first hand, recent experience in what it is like.

Krugerrand
07-19-2011, 11:07 AM
You guys advocating we abolish the TSA are failing to take into consideration the dangerous residual effects of doing that.

Think of all the pedophiles and sexual deviants (those that like to grope strangers and see them digitally stripped) randomly dispersed. They could be your boss, your co-worker, the fellow who delivers your pizza. There would be no way to know who they are!

As it is, we have a system that gathers them all together and puts uniforms on them. You have to give up a little freedom if you want security ... or something like that.

ChaosControl
07-19-2011, 11:35 AM
Infinitely better. Less expensive, less intrusive, more effective.
TSA, the worst government agency there is.

ChaosControl
07-19-2011, 11:36 AM
You guys advocating we abolish the TSA are failing to take into consideration the dangerous residual effects of doing that.

Think of all the pedophiles and sexual deviants (those that like to grope strangers and see them digitally stripped) randomly dispersed. They could be your boss, your co-worker, the fellow who delivers your pizza. There would be no way to know who they are!

As it is, we have a system that gathers them all together and puts uniforms on them. You have to give up a little freedom if you want security ... or something like that.

I'd be okay with throwing TSA agents in jail, they've certainly engaged in enough sexual assault that anyone in any other position would have already been jailed for.

heavenlyboy34
07-19-2011, 11:39 AM
Infinitely better. Less expensive, less intrusive, more effective.
TSA, the worst government agency there is.
I can think of a few worse agencies (IRS, DoD, FDA), but the TSA is indeed one of the great horrors of the modern world.

angelatc
07-19-2011, 11:41 AM
Security?
Define please.

I flew in the 70s, and a couple times in the 80s. Much less intrusive and statistically very safe.
Air piracy existed, the TSA did not. Flying was much more comfortable and cheaper than it is today.

I believe a complete change in Foreign Policy would make everything in the world more "secure".

Exactly. It's hard for the little ones to believe, but us old timers remember when you didn't need an ID to get on a plane. All you needed was a ticket.

RonPaulGetsIt
07-19-2011, 11:44 AM
The free market could handle it just fine. People and airlines could select the level of security they wish.

http://www.freemarketfan.com/2010/11/free-market-in-air-security.html?m=0

pcosmar
07-19-2011, 11:56 AM
Exactly. It's hard for the little ones to believe, but us old timers remember when you didn't need an ID to get on a plane. All you needed was a ticket.
And no one asked or gave a shit about the knife on my belt. or what was in my pockets.

YumYum
07-19-2011, 12:03 PM
We could adopt an Israeli model of security. The only thing is, we would have to pay the security here in the U.S. $35 an hour instead of minimum wage, and also train them.

http://www.slate.com/id/2279753/

ghengis86
07-19-2011, 12:05 PM
Locked, reinforced cockpit doors seem to render all hijacking attempts moot with regard to using the plane itself as a missile a la 9/11. Next threat would be blowing up a plane, which could be guarded against with the non-invasive air sniffing machines that have been in use for quite a few years. next threat would be straight up killing passengers one by one with a weapon; magnetometer and x-raying bags or planes not full of pussies.


I don't see how any of the above is unreasonable and/or ineffective. Why would you care who was flying where (unless you're the state of course) ?

Also, the "pick your security" idea of a free market would determine which options worked and those that did not.

Krugerrand
07-19-2011, 12:05 PM
We could adopt an Israeli model of security. The only thing is, we would have to pay the security here in the U.S. $35 an hour instead of minimum wage, and also train them.

http://www.slate.com/id/2279753/

Israel needs that security because of their policies. If our policies were consistent with our constitution, we would not need security at all.

ghengis86
07-19-2011, 12:08 PM
Israel needs that security because of their policies. If our policies were consistent with our constitution, we would not need security at all.

Respectfully disagree. There are still people who are bat shit crazy and want to hurt/kill others just for the sake of doing it no matter how benign our foreign policy.

Danke
07-19-2011, 12:13 PM
Respectfully disagree. There are still people who are bat shit crazy and want to hurt/kill others just for the sake of doing it no matter how benign our foreign policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Gilbert_Graham

http://www.cantonrep.com/news/x1090820749/The-Monday-After-Airline-bombings-in-50s-led-to-tighter-security

brushfire
07-19-2011, 12:18 PM
Private enterprise can "get away" with things the government cannot. Although, that's becoming a very false statement as we speak. Look at other industries for examples, though. Nuclear power companies, Las Vegas Casinos, etc... Private enterprise is also not immune to groping and injury sustained by surface radiation... So private companies are motivated to walk a finer line, while government is free to screw up without penalty (same would be such cases where government "partners" with private security firms...)

Travlyr
07-19-2011, 12:19 PM
I can think of a few worse agencies (IRS, DoD, FDA), but the TSA is indeed one of the great horrors of the modern world.

And don't forget the NSA & CIA. ;)


How would you secure your airport without a global agency.

Would you have people go through an additional checkpoint between connecting flights?
If you went through a checkpoint between flights, and they found an item that they didn't like, would you want them to confiscate it?

Would there be different security checkpoints for each airline's area?

Would you go through security on your way off a flight?

How do you imagine this would work?

Much like the world worked when you could buy dynamite in hardware stores, took guns to school to learn how to use them, a dollar was redeemable for a silver dollar ... when everybody and their brother owned a plane and knew how to fly it ... pre-1960.

pcosmar
07-19-2011, 01:52 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Gilbert_Graham

http://www.cantonrep.com/news/x1090820749/The-Monday-After-Airline-bombings-in-50s-led-to-tighter-security

There are always random nuts. Or the excuse of a random nut.
Your odds of being he victim of one is pretty damn slim.

How many aircraft bombings happened even after the hysteria. (I can think of quite a few).
And none that would justify searching the panties of kids or grandmothers.

In fact most were directly related to our Foreign Policy.
And if someone is determined to do so,,,the TSA would not deter them.

DamianTV
07-19-2011, 05:31 PM
How would you secure your airport without a global agency.

Would you have people go through an additional checkpoint between connecting flights?
If you went through a checkpoint between flights, and they found an item that they didn't like, would you want them to confiscate it?

Would there be different security checkpoints for each airline's area?

Would you go through security on your way off a flight?

How do you imagine this would work?

Dogs. They are cheaper than the techology supporting the privacy invasive junk fondling approach, but then again, the whole system is about costing us as much money as possible, not as little.

aGameOfThrones
07-19-2011, 05:43 PM
Just fly naked. Anyone who is walking like they got a stick up their ass is taken to a room to answer questions on why they are walking like they got a stick up there ass.

DamianTV
07-19-2011, 05:50 PM
Ew! Does taht mean the TSA agents have to be naked so we can all see the giant cobs of corn they've got stuffed in their corn-holes?

aGameOfThrones
07-19-2011, 05:53 PM
Ew! Does taht mean the TSA agents have to be naked so we can all see the giant cobs of corn they've got stuffed in their corn-holes?

Yeah, and they can't put iPads in their pants anymore.

jmdrake
07-19-2011, 05:56 PM
Like we did before 9/11.

How did the terrorists hijack the planes? By using items they were allowed to bring. It wasn't a failure in security.

+rep Add to that the fact that the terrorists were let into this country without being screened thanks to the Bush "Visa express" program which lowered security for Saudi nationals. Or the fact that the underwear bomber was let on without a passport post 9/11 even though his father said he was a terrorist.

jmdrake
07-19-2011, 05:59 PM
Exactly. It's hard for the little ones to believe, but us old timers remember when you didn't need an ID to get on a plane. All you needed was a ticket.

Remember going to the airport without a ticket and waiting by the window to watch your loved one fly off? Those were the days! :(

jmdrake
07-19-2011, 06:14 PM
We could adopt an Israeli model of security. The only thing is, we would have to pay the security here in the U.S. $35 an hour instead of minimum wage, and also train them.

http://www.slate.com/id/2279753/

You know, that's a convenient mis-truth. The TSA already profiles. The problem is that it hasn't worked.

See: http://www.disappearednews.com/2010/12/tsa-profiling-may-not-help-catch.html

Now why does it (apparently) work in Israel but not in the U.S.? Well I have a hunch. Israel is an apartheid state and the U.S. is not. From your article:

The exact selection criteria aren't publicly available, but ethnicity is probably a consideration. (Former U.S. Health and Human Service Secretary Donna Shalala was interrogated in July, presumably because of her Lebanese heritage.)

If you think being selected for additional screening in U.S. airports is tough, you obviously haven't faced an Israeli interrogator. Secondary screening can involve hours of questioning. Agents have been known to click through all of a traveler's digital photographs. Body searches are common, and agents usually take luggage apart one item at a time. Israeli agents confiscated all the luggage of Indiana University professor Heather Bradshaw and kept it for three days.

Now imagine what would happen if say a black member of congress was singled out like Donna Shalala was and then treated as bad as Heather Bradshaw? And why am I bring up the race issue? Because some of today's "terrorists" look like this guy.

http://www.mediaite.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/front122909.jpg

Oh, and imagine the confusion of Al-CIAda switches to using Chechens?

http://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/CHECHNEYAN-WOMEN1.jpg

http://undhimmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/chechen-women-face-threats-to-wear-veil.jpg

And of course we're only talking about hard targets (the airport). If Al Qaeda wasn't controlled opposition they'd be attacking soft targets by now.

roho76
07-19-2011, 06:57 PM
My mother in law, who was an investigator for the the TSA at Boston Logan, just resigned yesterday. She has finally had enough. They just started an investigation into her ties with the man who made the "Please Remove Your Shoes" documentary about her giving secret information but I think this is because they wanted to get rid of her. She is very by the book and went after airlines over security issues and her boss's would have her removed from investigations because of cronyism between the TSA and the airlines.

I am pushing her to write a tell all and go into private security consultation.

Cutlerzzz
07-19-2011, 08:08 PM
Without the TSA, every plane in the country that tries to take off would be hijacked and crashed by islamo-fascists that hate us for our freedom.

Tarzan
07-19-2011, 08:38 PM
The airlines take over security... it's not the business of the government and violates the law (you know, that Constitution thingee).

The airlines remove all the seats in their planes... put everybody in a drug induced coma... put them in a tube... then ship you to your destination. The airlines don't run on any particular schedule and fly at erratic altitudes and cabin pressure settings to confound timers and altitude sensitive devices. You could then fly more cheaply and even go via UPS (or, FedEx if you absolutely, positively... well, you know). They could even offer a direct delivery service where they parachute your tube near your home! (but, beware of 'lost luggage')

More seriously... it's up to the airlines... they own the planes. The federal government has NO business in this and I have been surprised that the ACLU has not forced the issue by getting a group together (ready to face arrest) and refuse to be searched by the feds. What the F happened to that thing I read somewhere about 'unreasonable search'... must be a false memory of mine.

Then... what about searching kids before they enter school? They are forced to attend school... and forced to be searched before entering... woah! Public buildings, especially court buildings where your appearance is required... and a forced search. Next it will be the sidewalks leading to public buildings... or public roads... and finally your front door!

I don't know the answer... but I know they have gone WAY too far!!!

Fredom101
07-19-2011, 08:45 PM
The airlines would do their own security.

No airline in their right mind would want anything to go wrong on their plane. In fact, they have more incentive to make sure passengers are secure than anyone else, including the government.

Free market should handle this, not the TSA.

headhawg7
07-19-2011, 09:01 PM
Without the TSA, every plane in the country that tries to take off would be hijacked and crashed by islamo-fascists that hate us for our freedom.

Yep....they hate our freedom SO much!!! I know you are being facetious but there really are people who spread that lie and uninformed people who believe it.

DamianTV
07-20-2011, 12:56 AM
The airlines would do their own security.

No airline in their right mind would want anything to go wrong on their plane. In fact, they have more incentive to make sure passengers are secure than anyone else, including the government.

Free market should handle this, not the TSA.

+Rep

tangent4ronpaul
07-20-2011, 05:40 AM
http://www.bluecorncomics.com/pics/911guns.jpg

johnrocks
07-20-2011, 05:54 AM
How? We did fine without the TSA for decades, I no longer fly due to this invasive agency, I do wish airlines could decide on security matters for themselves, I'd take the least evasive one.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
02-09-2019, 12:09 AM
Bump