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tangent4ronpaul
07-16-2011, 01:38 AM
New Flight Charters
PMB 4067
Jackson, Wyoming 83001

There are a lot of them and they add up. Add up so much, that we are approaching the cost of BUYING a used jet! - and I don't mean a 1 or 2 seater!

Granted, FUEL!, A&P, pilot and hanger space contribute to the total a lot, but we are 40 weeks out before the primaries. Why don't we just push the campaign to buy a damn plane and hire a pilot? The LT cost savings could be huge and it could be sold after to recover most of the cost. The way they are doing it just doesn't make sense.

-t

afwjam
07-16-2011, 01:44 AM
Sounds like you know more then most, I guess they would need to hire a pilot too. Why don't you contact the campaign, I would love for Ron Paul to have his own jet.

tangent4ronpaul
07-16-2011, 04:17 AM
I'm really not sure about the cost of fuel as a % of rental cost - but it is sure looking good! If we are talking that kind of a budget, it seems to make sense.

tangent4ronpaul
07-16-2011, 06:30 AM
http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/GULFSTREAM-IISP/1976-GULFSTREAM-IISP/1181085.htm?

http://www.controller.com/images/Controller/fullsize/86944703.jpg

http://www.controller.com/images/Controller/fullsize/86944705.jpg

Year 1976
Manufacturer GULFSTREAM
Model IISP
Price $465,000
Location Van Nuys, California
Condition Used
Serial Number 0183
Registration Number N821PA
Total Time 13892 Hours

BEAUTIFUL 12 PASSENGER FIREBLOCKED INTERIOR WITH FOUR PLACE FORWARD CLUB SEATING CONFIGURATION, 2 THREE-PLACE LEATHER DIVANS, AND TWO FORWARD FACING CAPTAINS CHAIRS. (2006). LIGHT BEIGE LEATHER SEATS, TAN COLOR CARPET, BIRDSEYE MAPLE WOODWORK,MID-CABIN PAX DIVIDER, FWD & AFT ENTERTAINMENT CENTER w/ DVD, TV, AND AIRSHOW. MAGNASTAR FLIGHT PHONE, FULL AFT GALLEY W/ MICROWAVE, HOT OVEN, BAR, AFT LAV

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/GULFSTREAM-IISP/1977-GULFSTREAM-IISP/1149419.htm?

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/GULFSTREAM-IISP/1977-GULFSTREAM-IISP/1149419.htm?

http://www.controller.com/images/Controller/fullsize/79608847.jpg

Year 1977
Manufacturer GULFSTREAM
Model IISP
Price $585,000
Location Phoenix, Arizona
Condition Used
Serial Number 208
Registration Number N247AB
Total Time 9349 Hours
Number Of Seats 11

White Leather Seats, Neutral Fabric Divans, Forward 4-place Conference Group, Dual Individual
Forward-facing Seats, Aft RS-3-place Berthable Divan & LS 2-place Berthable Divan, Aircraft Seats 11+2 Crew. Airshow 400, Dual Rosen 8.5 Inch Articulating Monitors, 21 Inch Forward Rosen Monitor, 14 Inch Aft Rosen monitor, DVD & CD PlayerInspection Status:
Left & Right Engine – Overhaul due date on both engines is July 31, 2012. Accomplished Spey TI-410 on HPT1 Blades.
5000 Landing / Cycle Inspection – All 5000 Hour Landing Inspection items Complied with at 4988 Landings, 06/05/2007. Over 200 individual tasks c/w on this shop visit.
Avionics – Fresh 24 month avionics inspections C/W 4/2011 - (RVSM/ 91.411 and 91.413). 72 Month Inspections Items - Including all Structural NDT / X-RAY Inspections C/W 06/05/07
All major inspections C/W. -Inspections Status Current and Part 135 ready

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/GULFSTREAM-II/1972-GULFSTREAM-II/1132287.htm?

http://www.controller.com/images/Controller/fullsize/77317247.jpg

Year 1972
Manufacturer GULFSTREAM
Model II
Price $699,000
Location Ontario, California
Condition Used
Serial Number 109
Registration Number N581MB
Total Time 15234 Hours

Interior is not as sweet, but this info is REALLY valuable!

Operating Costs for Gulfstream G-II

PQ Avg.
Fuel (GPH): 535.00
Fuel Costs/Gallon: 2.14
Fuel Costs/Hour: 1,156.60
Oil Costs per Hour: 0.50
Maintenance Cost/Hour: 329.34
Hourly Engine Reserve: 153.80
Prop T/R Reserve: 12.00
Total Variable Costs/Hour: 1,652.25
Average Speed (MPH): 440.00
Cost/SM: 3.76
Annual Insurance: 27,079.21
Annual Hangar/Tiedown: 78,732.67
Training: 38,059.11
Total Fixed Costs: 143,870.99
Hours/Year: 358.34
Fixed Cost/Hour: 402.17
Total Variable & Fixed Costs/Year: 734,366.70
Total Costs/Hour: 2,054.42
Total Cost/SM: 4.68

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/LEARJET-25B/1972-LEARJET-25B/1137533.htm?

http://www.controller.com/images/Controller/fullsize/77970675.jpg

http://www.controller.com/images/Controller/fullsize/77970679.jpg

Year 1972
Manufacturer LEARJET
Model 25B
Price $269,000
Location Las Vegas, Nevada
Condition Used
Serial Number 25B-081
Registration Number N524DW
Total Time 15900 Hours

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/LEARJET-25G/1984-LEARJET-25G/1177054.htm?

http://www.controller.com/images/Controller/fullsize/83264813.jpg

Year 1984
Manufacturer LEARJET
Model 25G
Price $385,000
Location Texas
Condition Used
Serial Number 371
Registration Number N188PR
Total Time 8465 Hours

LibertyEagle
07-16-2011, 07:01 AM
I just glanced at them, but the ones I saw were about 35 years old.

tangent4ronpaul
07-16-2011, 07:06 AM
OK, I'm coming up in the neighborhood of 234K in Charter jet charges. That's about 30K less than the least expensive jet listed. I'm going to punt and guess that's about 24 hours of flight time, so about 50K in total operating expenses. This is certainly much more that commercial flights, till you consider that you can bring along 7-10 of your friends and pack the plane with supplies so save on shipping. Then it starts looking downright cheap!

So in really round numbers, for what our donation dollars have paid for in charter aircraft fees, we could have bought a 1/4 Million dollar aircraft, operated it for those number of trips, had it available for the rest of the campaign at a $2K an hour operating cost, and been able to get that 1/4 Million dollars back when we are done with it. We are what, 6 weeks into the campaign with 40 more to go till the primaries start? The potential cost savings here, as well as the ability to shuttle Paul around boggles the mind! Note that I'm NOT suggesting going for the cheapest aircraft available! Just using that as an example.

This is what we've spent on charter flights already:
30069.88
25986.40
15126.80
376.23
4541.49
17764.53
37839.78
6270.15
26147.65
32876.83
4527.76
32180.23
115.98
227.74

About 234K

-t

Eric21ND
07-16-2011, 07:07 AM
I'd rather have a decked out campaign bus for Ron to travel all over the state.

asurfaholic
07-16-2011, 07:16 AM
I'd rather have a decked out campaign bus for Ron to travel all over the state.

This..

How many other presidential campaigns BUY jets? I don't think it would really be the most beneficial thing to do. And if it makes more sense to buy, then I am pretty sure the topic has already come up in talks...

Also you mention that you could sell the jet afterwards to recoup. Really? In this economy? Looks like there's plenty of jets for sale..

tangent4ronpaul
07-16-2011, 07:22 AM
I just glanced at them, but the ones I saw were about 35 years old.

I was looking at the cheaper end of the spectrum. What's really important is number of flight hours, maintenance and inspections.

We are still flying B-52's that were made in the 1950's and A-10 Warthogs that were made in the 1960's IIRC, in combat!

I only looked at one site, and didn't look at anything over 750K. Some of them are documented as being really well taken care of. If I saw a 2002 Gulfstream for $250K, I'd be asking "what's wrong with it?". Raise the search prive some, and newer aircraft will show up. Remember, we can get the cost back at the end of the campaign. But again, the most important numbers are number of flight hours, inspections and such.

-t

tangent4ronpaul
07-16-2011, 07:24 AM
This..

How many other presidential campaigns BUY jets? I don't think it would really be the most beneficial thing to do. And if it makes more sense to buy, then I am pretty sure the topic has already come up in talks...

Also you mention that you could sell the jet afterwards to recoup. Really? In this economy? Looks like there's plenty of jets for sale..

I'm not noticing a bigger market for used jets than when the economy was good, but perhaps better prices.

tangent4ronpaul
07-16-2011, 07:32 AM
Look at it this way. You do occasional road trips, and on them you always decide to drop by Starbucks for a coffee to go. You are realizing you are doing these fairly often. At what point does it make sense to buy a coffee maker and a thermos to save money? I mean a couple of dollars here, a couple of dollars there - but if you keep your receits and add them up you realize you are spending some serious money on this....

-t

sailingaway
07-16-2011, 07:36 AM
From your link above:


Total Variable & Fixed Costs/Year: 734,366.70
Total Costs/Hour: 2,054.42

Those are costs which would exist on top of the cost of the plane, and he'd have to pay for crew etc.

I say we should leave this decision up to the campaign, since now it has the flexibility to get a different type of plane for different needs. It is something they might want to consider. But I don't want him in some rickety bucket.

Danke
07-16-2011, 08:06 AM
If it flies, floats or fucks, it's cheaper to rent.

Shimpchip
07-16-2011, 08:09 AM
What about a giant blimp?

tangent4ronpaul
07-16-2011, 08:37 AM
What about a giant blimp?

^^^ LOL! - you funny!

Slow, weather dependent, expensive, cold to ride in - but hay - it's a great flying billboard!

PermanentSleep
07-16-2011, 11:24 AM
It would be so easy to raise Money specifically for this by offering the highest donor(s) between each scheduled flight the reward of flying on the following flight with Dr. Paul.

Hell, there has to be a Paul supporter millionaire or billionaire that owns a plane that would let Liberty borrow the plane for the election. Imagine the Liberty Plane's increase in value each year following the historic and unprecedented 2012 Presidential win by Paul: Fly in the same seat that held Dr. Paul on his flight to the victory that watered the withering tree of Liberty and sparked a rebirth of the American Republic and marked the beginning of the real American Enlightenment. Bring on the Golden Age.

libertybrewcity
07-16-2011, 11:37 AM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?292360-I-want-to-see-RP-looking-like-a-GANGSTA-in-front-of-his-plane!!!!!

Cowlesy
07-16-2011, 11:49 AM
Glad he's flying using charter planes. He will end up seeing more people in strategic places, he's what..75 or 76 years old? I am glad he's riding in style, and not wasting his time sitting in Iowa airports to puddle-jump halfway across the state.

If he bought a plane, he'd have this goofy asset on the campaigns books, he'd have to contract a pilot to fly it, gas, upkeep, storage. I think renting one makes the most sense economically.

Maximus
07-16-2011, 11:55 AM
The last thing we need is an image of Ron Paul flying around the country in a private jet

Cowlesy
07-16-2011, 11:57 AM
The last thing we need is an image of Ron Paul flying around the country in a private jet

You can't hit up 3 events in Iowa one day and the next day 2 in NH flying commercial. They all use charter planes to maximize the use of their time. He is after all still a sitting congressman.

MelissaWV
07-16-2011, 12:00 PM
You can't hit up 3 events in Iowa one day and the next day 2 in NH flying commercial. They all use charter planes to maximize the use of their time. He is after all still a sitting congressman.

I wonder if there are any pilots/people with access to planes on the forums who could fly him around when he's in their area :p Granted, the folks accompanying him would need to take buses or other flights, but I think it'd be a great press/photo op for him to have supporters willing to drive/fly him around on their own dime.

Cowlesy
07-16-2011, 12:01 PM
I wonder if there are any pilots/people with access to planes on the forums who could fly him around when he's in their area :p Granted, the folks accompanying him would need to take buses or other flights, but I think it'd be a great press/photo op for him to have supporters willing to drive/fly him around on their own dime.

On their own dime implies an in-kind donation that must be reported for the FEC. Government sucks.

Napoleon's Shadow
07-16-2011, 12:06 PM
The last thing we need is an image of Ron Paul flying around the country in a private jet
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x93/sonicspikesalbum/Opposing%20Candidates/Cain-privatejet-5-18-11-Nashville2.jpg


http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x93/sonicspikesalbum/Opposing%20Candidates/Cain-privatejet-5-18-11-Nashville.jpg

kill the banks
07-16-2011, 12:11 PM
a lease might make sense but would need some research incl perhaps a presidential paint job ... also how about some big spender offering their jet as token to campaign and in turn will get write ups advertising their business as result ... Hmmm the bus idea would offer fugal advertising on route too

Travlyr
07-16-2011, 12:15 PM
When we get Ron Paul elected as president, and manage to get the central bankers to quit taking the cream off the top ... maybe we can all fly around in private jets.

MelissaWV
07-16-2011, 12:43 PM
Did I say dime? Oh oops I meant "time" ... but yeah there's that. Isn't that a big pile of fail.

febo
07-16-2011, 12:55 PM
I recall RP saying he wanted a jet to make campaigning easier, so get him one.

acptulsa
07-16-2011, 01:02 PM
We did. He just didn't buy it.

Upkeep. Storage. FAA inspections. Paperwork. Magna-fluxing. Guards. Mega-insurance. In the big picture, the purchase price of an airplane is but a tiny fraction of the cost of an airplane. And the leasing companies are pros at managing these costs and using the fact that they own quite a few to cut these costs. And if you think an older airplane is cheaper, ask a Confederate Air Force member for a second opinion. There's a reason trucking companies don't expect old trucks to make them money.

Didn't anyone here believe Danke? Doesn't anyone here remember how he makes his living?

The campaign knows what they're doing.

mavtek
07-16-2011, 02:16 PM
I'm wondering if the campaign really has done the research on this one? Chartering is expensive, they seriously need to look into a short term lease for a Lear or similar. Our company recently sent an engineering team around the country converting systems at our branch offices. The plane was a Lear 31 or 35 held 8-10 passengers plus gear and the wet lease (includes crew, fuel, maintenance and storage fees) was around $28000 per month. Of course that only included around 20 hours flight time per month, $1k per hour after that or something.

tangent4ronpaul
07-19-2011, 02:31 AM
I'm wondering if the campaign really has done the research on this one? Chartering is expensive, they seriously need to look into a short term lease for a Lear or similar. Our company recently sent an engineering team around the country converting systems at our branch offices. The plane was a Lear 31 or 35 held 8-10 passengers plus gear and the wet lease (includes crew, fuel, maintenance and storage fees) was around $28000 per month. Of course that only included around 20 hours flight time per month, $1k per hour after that or something.

As the campaign spent about about $234K on charter flights so far, leasing one sounds like a bargain!

On the Iowa projects page, ONE trip in a charter alone has a fundraising goal of $30K.

Do you remember where they leased if from?

What I'm finding is that wet leases generally don't include fuel, but do include insurance in addition to what you listed. I imagine that would be company dependent.

-t

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
07-19-2011, 02:44 AM
I always wished Ron would lease a train but I will not even pretend to know how much that would be.

anaconda
07-19-2011, 02:50 AM
Ron Paul should have his own custom painted jet with Ron Paul Revolution logo.

http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/led-zeppelin-airplane.jpg

tangent4ronpaul
07-19-2011, 03:03 AM
I always wished Ron would lease a train but I will not even pretend to know how much that would be.

As far as I know, you can only lease rail cars and then contract with a RR to tow them w/ the locomotive. Looks like a serviced lease is ~$12,000 mo. per rail car.

Other factors here are that different RR's have exclusive or shared use of certain sections of track, so you might have to switch RR's to get where you are going and that tracks don't always go where you want to go.

http://www.ehow.com/list_6779449_rail-car-lease-types.html

There are links to a few companies that lease rail cars at the bottom.

-t

puppetmaster
07-19-2011, 04:11 AM
If it flies, floats or fucks, it's cheaper to rent.

so true.......lol

puppetmaster
07-19-2011, 04:13 AM
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x93/sonicspikesalbum/Opposing%20Candidates/Cain-privatejet-5-18-11-Nashville2.jpg


http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x93/sonicspikesalbum/Opposing%20Candidates/Cain-privatejet-5-18-11-Nashville.jpg


that zombie looks like herman cain.......!

puppetmaster
07-19-2011, 04:14 AM
a lease might make sense but would need some research incl perhaps a presidential paint job ... also how about some big spender offering their jet as token to campaign and in turn will get write ups advertising their business as result ... Hmmm the bus idea would offer fugal advertising on route too


lease one!

CJLauderdale4
07-19-2011, 06:24 AM
A lease makes more sense, since it is a set cost over a set time and won't be on the books in the end. I'm sure some of the people selling them wouldn't mind sub-leasing for 1.5. years so they can cover their payments on the plane itself.

Also, how does it look to everyday people, who don't understand finances and economics, when opponents come out and blast Ron Paul for flying around in style on donors money while people are losing their jobs across the nation?

The media did it to the car manufacturers, and now Obama (as bone-headed as he is) just called out private jet owners.

The media will paint this as extravagant if purchased by the campaign. A reasonable lease though, that could be quickly explained in a 10 second blurb as helping a jet owner make his payments so a bank isn't sitting on a jet, as well as saving money for the donors.

Chieppa1
07-19-2011, 07:03 AM
ummm, he should be traveling in a Blimp. Duh. :)

tangent4ronpaul
07-19-2011, 02:38 PM
Ummm - campaign and others - look at posts 29 and 30!

-t

tangent4ronpaul
07-20-2011, 06:44 AM
Blimpers!

Ummm - campaign and others - look at posts 29 and 30!

Leasing an aircraft makes the most financial sense and allows for more appearances.

-t

ChrisDixon
07-20-2011, 06:55 AM
I'd rather have a decked out campaign bus for Ron to travel all over the state.

This.

Who is going to notice a Ron Paul jet in the air? Nobody. Who is going to notice a decked out campaign bus? Everybody.

Tinnuhana
07-20-2011, 06:57 AM
AND, you could resell the plane afterwards...

Elwar
07-20-2011, 07:38 AM
Buy Ron Paul a Jet moneybomb?

We can have rallies at the airport when he arrives.

He can deck out the plane with Ron Paul 2012 designs.

Carehn
07-20-2011, 07:43 AM
any reason he just doesn't fly commercial? Is it the TSA trying to touch his junk?

tangent4ronpaul
07-20-2011, 10:37 AM
This.

Who is going to notice a Ron Paul jet in the air? Nobody. Who is going to notice a decked out campaign bus? Everybody.

They would notice a decked out TRAIN!

tangent4ronpaul
07-20-2011, 10:38 AM
any reason he just doesn't fly commercial? Is it the TSA trying to touch his junk?

3 hour wait times to put up with TSA crap and stuff like that... - maybe?

Yeah - and getting groped....

-t

tangent4ronpaul
07-20-2011, 10:40 AM
Blimpers!

Ummm - campaign and others - look at posts 29 and 30!

Leasing an aircraft makes the most financial sense and allows for more appearances.

-t

HELLO official campaign? - do you really read this forum?

Please comment!

Hi Steve and Deb!

-t

angelatc
07-20-2011, 11:10 AM
any reason he just doesn't fly commercial? Is it the TSA trying to touch his junk?

With the miles he's putting in, between Iowa, New Hampshire, and DC, there's no way that flying commercial is a viable option. The scheduling is just too prohibitive.

angelatc
07-20-2011, 11:11 AM
HELLO official campaign? - do you really read this forum?

Please comment!

Hi Steve and Deb!

-t

Does the lease come with a pilot, insurance, maintenance and hangers? If not, does it come with a person paid to take care of all those items?

This is silly.

sailingaway
07-20-2011, 11:15 AM
Newt Gingrich spent close to half a million on chartered jets. He also spent half a million on web design/hosting.

Ron Paul spent $1600 on web design/hosting.

I'm sure Ron can manage his campaign expenses.

tangent4ronpaul
07-20-2011, 02:00 PM
Does the lease come with a pilot, insurance, maintenance and hangers? If not, does it come with a person paid to take care of all those items?

This is silly.

A "wet lease" does!!

-t

parocks
07-20-2011, 02:07 PM
Mark Cuban has 3 jets, rents out 2.


a lease might make sense but would need some research incl perhaps a presidential paint job ... also how about some big spender offering their jet as token to campaign and in turn will get write ups advertising their business as result ... Hmmm the bus idea would offer fugal advertising on route too

tangent4ronpaul
07-20-2011, 04:55 PM
Who is Mark Cuban?

Tarzan
07-20-2011, 05:22 PM
Who is Mark Cuban?

The luckiest dumbass on the planet!

I'm 100% with tangent... the campaign needs to lease. I hope they are listening, sit down with a pencil and calculator (they still make pencils, right) and do the math. Its the smart way to go. Better financially, easier on Ron (all the traveling). It would be great to find an FBO or corporate owner/supporter who could offer a 'special' price.

Anyway... I agree with -T!
Hello Campaign Folks???


maybe we should suggest something bigger than a Lear or Gulfstream... and get Ron ready for traveling in a 747?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/imagecache/page_masthead/746px-Air_Force_One_over_Mt__Rushmore.jpg

tangent4ronpaul
07-21-2011, 06:34 AM
Campaign - are you listening?

-t

steph3n
07-21-2011, 06:47 AM
Buying a jet is a fraction of the cost of flying it.

The fractional ownership programs are a wet lease, and many of them are right on average with commercial flights when you consider staff travel and comfort as well.
The benefit of the fractional programs or the 'netjets' type is that if you have more people you can scale up and down in plane size without problem and not tied into a specific plane.


Last cycle Obama leased a 757 from North American airways, McCain leased a plane from Jetblue for Palin and looks like they may have purchased or leased and refurbished a 737-400 for the campaign.

johndeal
07-22-2011, 10:34 AM
This could be a campaign issue. Ron Paul tells Obama to stick it and buys (or leases) a private jet. Ron Paul says he would fly commercial if the TSA would let go of everyone's balls.

At least the second one would fly.

steph3n
07-22-2011, 10:48 AM
This could be a campaign issue. Ron Paul tells Obama to stick it and buys (or leases) a private jet. Ron Paul says he would fly commercial if the TSA would let go of everyone's balls.

At least the second one would fly.
the point is flying commercial is not always less(if more than 3-4 people going to the same place at the same time), and IS always more hassle. there is no reason to interject politics into the 'i'd fly commercial if' routine. Commercial services require stopovers in places you don't need to go, etc.

BTW ron does fly commercial I have seen him at the Continental President's Clubs a couple times and spoken to him there.

johndeal
07-22-2011, 10:56 AM
I know but it would be a good sound bite.

tangent4ronpaul
07-22-2011, 04:49 PM
Hello official campaign! - have you seen this thread? - I'm getting tired of bumping it!

civusamericanus
07-22-2011, 05:00 PM
Obama's campaign used the commercial logo of North American airlines on their plane until he won the primaries, then spent 500k on an overhaul of the same plane. I suspect Ron Paul will run a frugal campaign, avoiding large purchases, until it is absolutely necessary. Bottom line, I'm confident Ron Paul WILL NOT BUY A JET unless he wins the primary, then it will become a necessity.

EDIT: But leasing makes a lot of sense!

tangent4ronpaul
07-22-2011, 05:53 PM
Obama's campaign used the commercial logo of North American airlines on their plane until he won the primaries, then spent 500k on an overhaul of the same plane. I suspect Ron Paul will run a frugal campaign, avoiding large purchases, until it is absolutely necessary. Bottom line, I'm confident Ron Paul WILL NOT BUY A JET, unless he wins the primary, then it will become a necessity.

WOW! - someone that OBVIOUSLY DID NOT read the thread....

Readers digest version... we came to the conclusion that BUYING a jet was impractical, but that leasing a jet was MEGA-cheaper than doing charters like he has been. We are now urging the campaign to look at leasing a jet.

-t

civusamericanus
07-22-2011, 06:15 PM
WOW! - someone that OBVIOUSLY DID NOT read the thread....

Readers digest version... we came to the conclusion that BUYING a jet was impractical, but that leasing a jet was MEGA-cheaper than doing charters like he has been. We are now urging the campaign to look at leasing a jet.

-t
LOL... sorry I read a couple pages and skipped to the end. I'll read a little more thoroughly next time :D. Thanks for the cliff notes version though!

^^ Otherwise what you propose seems very logical. Ron Paul has been a Plane that had to make an emergency landing, it would be nice to know that whatever he's travelling is is maintained by his own people!