Smart Meters: Nightmare or Boon?

[NiceGoing]

Friday, July 15, 2011

Smart Meters: Public Health Nightmare or Public Utility Boon?


By Madison Ruppert

Editor of End the Lie


Like a lot of things, so-called “smart meters” seem quite reasonable and even beneficial at first glance, but once one starts going through the facts with a fine-tooth comb, they don’t seem quite so laudable.

http://endthelie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Smart-Meters1-300x225.jpg

What exactly is questionable about these devices, and what, if any, danger do they pose to the American people?

For starters, these wireless meters have inflated the bills of many-a-consumer while also interfering with household electronic devices. While these highly praised devices are supposedly going to make our lives easier and make power more reliable and efficient, they just happen to ruin the functionality of several crucial gadgets found in the everyday home.

Everything from baby monitors to cordless phones experience static and other audible radiofrequency interference thanks to these “smart” meters. While the previous meters seemed to be working just fine for most and had the wonderful bonus of allowing you to hear your mother clearly over the phone, these new devices seem to only bring trouble.

Not only do these meters pose the somewhat minor annoyance of interfering with phone calls, they also have the potentially dangerous ability to interfere with garage doors, security systems, motion detectors, and more.

One of the corporations behind these imbecilic smart meters is Pacific Gas and Electric or PG&E, a company that rolled out their ironically named SmartMeters in Northern California last year.

When Mercury News contacted the utility, they “said little and put up a bureaucratic hurdle to get responses to readers’ concerns, going so far as to require notarized waivers of confidentiality. That’s the definition of stonewalling.”

Way back in the second quarter of 2009 PG&E discovered this massive issue but claimed that it was in “a limited number of cases” and in a report to the Public Utilities Commission of California they indicated a solution was soon to come.

However, the fix was never made and consumers have reported alarms being randomly triggered, satellite TV signal interference, wireless internet interference and more. The worst part of PG&E’s SmartMeter is that the devices were installed without the customer having any choice in the matter.

In Maine, Central Maine Power has been installing the smart meters in customers’ homes with similar problems.

In January of this year, Central Main Power (CMP) was forced to remove a smart meter from a Portland, Maine, home after it had repeatedly interfered with the home’s security system.

The public utility “allowed” the woman to opt-out of the smart meter, which to any rational person should seem a bit absurd. When we have to be allowed to opt-out of a product being installed on our own homes, something is afoot.

The Bath City Council of Maine passed a city ordinance that changed the ridiculous “opt-out” policy to an “opt-in” policy in which CMP could not install a smart meter on a customer’s home unless they opted to have it installed.

In response to this, the utility employed Pierce Atwood, a prominent Portland, Maine law firm to legally harass the Bath City Council for their laudable moratorium ordinance on the questionable smart meters. The letter was leaked in full to the Smart Meter Safety Coalition, which can be read here.

The annoyance posed by electro-frequency interference of household devices and the smart meters pales in comparison to some of the dangers posed by these seemingly innocuous meters.

According to Gary R. Olhoeft, SBEE and SMEE (MIT) and PhD (Physics, University of Toronto), Professor of Geophysics at Colorado School of Mines, these devices can interfere with sensitive medical implants including deep brain stimulators for Parkinson’s disease as well as pacemakers.

Why are we allowing a utility company to install devices which could have potentially deadly consequences, especially when we cannot even control if they are implemented or not?

Smart meters’ interference with life-sustaining medical devices is not the only health risk these gadgets pose.

According to a letter sent by Stephen J. Kirsch M.D., Local Health Officer of Scarborough, Maine, to Karen Geraghty, Administration Director of the Maine Public Utilities Commission, there are links between negative physical symptoms and the smart meters.

Dr. Kirsch reports that on two occasions one of his patient’s symptoms worsened when she was in her home with the smart meters installed. He also voices concern about the lack of a plan to monitor the safety of the devices and their impact on public health.

Dr. Kirsch mentions that during public sessions held in his town, many citizens reported physical sensitivity to non-ionizing radiofrequencies, the same frequencies emitted by these devices.

Like Dr. Olhoeft, Dr. Kirsch is “particularly concerned” about the effects smart meters will have on those individuals who depend on implantable medical devices to keep them alive. Dr. Kirsch also worries about those lying at the extreme ends of the age spectrum that are especially susceptible to health issues like infants and the elderly.

Due to the fact that power utilities are usually a monopoly and consumers only have one choice of power provider, Americans are being forced to use these smart meters even when they negatively impact their health.

Dr. Kirsch makes it clear in the letter that Central Maine Power is required to provide customers with the ability to opt-out of having the smart meters installed in their homes as they have no other choice when it comes to power provider.

He also says that CMP should record all health complaints that are lodged after the smart meters have been installed in order to assess and analyze the health risks associated with this new technology.

Dr. David Carpenter, a physician trained at Harvard Medical School, former head of the New York State Department of Health for 18 years and now Dean of the School of Public Health points out that while no studies have been done on human health in homes with smart meters installed, there is a plethora of scientific literature showing that electromagnetic radiation has dangerous effects.

Dr. Carpenter is indeed quite right, as finally the World Health Organization’s International Agency on Cancer classified radiofrequency radiation as a “possible human carcinogen.”

Dr. Carpenter comes to a very similar conclusion as Dr. Kirsch: we must be able to demand analog meters instead of the new smart meter technology until they are proven safe.

The logic employed by those pushing smart meter technology is nothing short of fallacious. Since they claim that they are safe due to the fact that there is no research proving otherwise, they are simply appealing to ignorance. This is the fallacy in informal logic known as argumentum ad ignorantiam.

According to the Environmental Protection Agency’s Norbert Hankin, Center for Science and Risk Assessment Radiation Protection Division, “Federal health and safety agencies have not yet developed policies concerning possible risk form long-term nonthermal [radiofrequency radiation] exposures.”

So when even the EPA admits that there is really no protection afforded to consumers by federal health and safety agencies and so-called “public” utilities are actively fighting the real public who is attempting to slow their advance, why are we allowing these untested devices to be installed anywhere?

One can talk about the benefits to one’s heart’s content; it still does not make the lack of credible, independent, peer-reviewed scientific literature on the health effects of smart meters in the home any more real.

While wireless internet routers, cellular telephones, and many other household sources of radiofrequency radiation can be turned off, the smart meters and the neighborhood relay points cannot. Therefore, one has no control over the constant barrage of radiation in their home once the power company has decided they will install the device.

An August 2009 issue of the scientific journal, Pathophysiology, electromagnetic field (EMF) effects were studied and presented on DNA, the brain, and the environment.

Some of the findings were quite startling to say the least, including the finding that EMFs can actually damage DNA. Indeed intermittent Extremely Low Frequency (ELF) EMFs have been shown to increase the risk of cancerous diseases.

A study found that ELF-EMF exposure causes single and double strand DNA breaks at levels well below the proposed guidelines set by the International Commission of Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection. The researchers concluded, “The induced DNA damage is not based on thermal effects and arouses concern about environmental threshold limit values for ELF exposure.”

Keep in mind that this type of EMF is distinct from the field emitted by a smart meter, as Dr. Carpenter mentioned. This simply shows that we require more thorough research on the radiation specific to these meters.

Again, an argument from ignorance should not be accepted by the American people as a justification to roll-out untested, unsafe technology.

Yet, the Western media seems to lack the most rudimentary logical faculties, evidenced by their continual appeals to ignorance that amount to nothing more than a thinly veiled advertisement for the wireless smart meters.

So-called journalists are quick to point out that not all scientists concur on the safety of the meters. It is as if these journalists forgot that every major scientific breakthrough occurs when there is a small group of revolutionaries challenging the stagnant majority opinion.

If the public listened to these ignorant journalists, we would still be saying the world is flat because only a few people agreed with those bright and brave enough to stand up to the scientific establishment.

One might be thinking that this is only in a couple cities and therefore can be brushed aside like so much garbage. Unfortunately for the people of the entire world, this is far from reality.

In California alone 43 different counties have gone on the record in opposition of the smart meters while 10 counties have banned the devices entirely.

In Monterey County, California, the City of Marina’s City Council voted unanimously this week to oppose the smart meters peddled by Pacific Gas & Electric Company or PG&E.

While the town of Fairfax says that PG&E’s program is not cost effective and is noncompliant with the state of California’s Public Utilities Commission’s directions.

Currently PG&E charges consumers for opting out from having the untested devices installed on their home.

These smart meter programs are having a frightening effect on individuals suffering from electromagnetic hypersensitivity or EHS as outlined in one man’s letter to an expert in the field after smart meters had been installed in his apartment building.

For those who would scoff at such a condition, the California Department of Health’s statistics say that at least 3-15% of the population has developed EHS.

Are we really going to force suffering Americans to fork over hard earned and all-too-spare cash in order to live a healthy and comfortable life in their own home? Is it just me or does something seem seriously wrong with this picture?

IBM, the same wonderful people behind the technology that tracked and catalogued the Jews in Nazi Germany, have been pushing incessantly for a global smart grid, but why?

In part two of this series, we will explore the massive boon this technology would be for the international cover surveillance industry. In future installments we will get into the larger scale plan at work, what a “global smart grid” really means and so much more.

If you have any research or articles to assist in this series please do not hesitate to contact me at admin@endthelie.com I would love to hear from you and I sincerely appreciate all of the e-mails I receive from readers.

Wake Someone Up!


Short URL: http://EndtheLie.com/?p=15416

[dannno]

The City Council in my town has also sent a letter to our Electrical Company asking them to stop the implementation of the Smart Meters.

http://www.independent.com/news/2011/jul/14/councilmembers-send-anti-smart-meter-letter-edison/

You'll notice the comments at the bottom from the pro-establishment crowd saying that it is less harmful than a cell phone and they blame this whole anti-smart meber movement on the tea party. I tend not to believe those folks, though.

[CaptUSA]

Ok, now. This is my area of expertise. There are many problems with smart metering technology, but this article is clearly not scientifically based. First thing first, SMI technology is rapidly advancing so each type of device is different. The meters installed 3 years ago are completely different from the ones installed today. The health concerns are ridiculous, but the interference concerns may be real depending on the device.

Most of these use some sort of cell phone technology and just like your cell can interfere with some of your equipment, so can your meter. However, most of these concerns are alleviated by meter and appliance placement. If this is not possible, there are othe means of communicating with the meter (Power line carrier, BPL...), but you will probably pay for it.

So let's get real here. No sense scaring people with nonsense when there's so many real issues to be concerned about.

1st, the security on these things is ever advancing, but so are the methods of attack. These are basically small computers that are attached to a larger network. Each of them poses a risk to attack. And just like your computers, breaches will happen until the security folks figure out the attack and respond.

2nd, even if eveything goes 100% secure, there has to be some concern about the ability to see the inner workings of your home. I will be able to see your electric usage real time in intervals as small as 5 minutes. I will also have access to your entire neighborhood and if you have appliances integrated with your smart meter, I will be able to adjust your appliances while you are away.

The benefits are huge also. I'll be able to calculate the amount of expected usage on any given day and alter the generation accordingly. I'll be able to tell exactly which locations have lost power during a storm to get your power back on faster. I will be able to turn your power on and off when you move out or when you're away from your hunting camp.

The worst thing? the electric companies don't really want to do this. It's not cost-effective. The only reason we're doing it is because your government is making us.

[specialK]

The worst thing? the electric companies don't really want to do this. It's not cost-effective.

Interesting. Here in British Columbia, the Crown (Queen Elizabeth's representative) Corporation electric company is telling us they reason they are doing it is because they say it will save them money - up to 100 million per year in stolen electricity from marijuana grow-ops.

[dannno]

Interesting. Here in British Columbia, the Crown (Queen Elizabeth's representative) Corporation electric company is telling us they reason they are doing it is because they say it will save them money - up to 100 million per year in stolen electricity from marijuana grow-ops.

Ya that is dumb. The reason why illegal marijuana grow-ops steal electricity in the first place is because many grow-ops get busted because the utility company notifies law enforcement about their abnormally high energy usage. So as a response, many marijuana grow-ops found that they could get away with it by simply stealing electricity for the grow-op. This of course creates a risk because as electricity companies realized this was happening they began to look out for people stealing electricity, and many grow-ops end up getting busted because the electric company finds out they are stealing electricity.

Of course if it were legal then it wouldn't be an issue.

[CaptUSA]

Eventually this technology should be able to tell us about line loss and pinpoint where electricity is being diverted unmetered. The technology is not quite there yet. We should be able to meter the output of the substation, and monitor the usage at each metering point and have some sort of computer analyze the data to find out where there's a pocket of loss. It'll be pretty cool from our perspective when we can do that, but it's not there yet.

Still, though, the ability to do these cool things does not pay for itself. Even it it saves you $100 million a year (I'd seriously have to question that number, by the way), the cost of putting the infrastructure in place costs way more than that. It's not worth it for power companies. The only way we'll do it is if we don't have to pay for it. When the politicians write this bullshit legislation (like act 129 in PA), they mandate that we do this and then they put in cost-recovery mechanisms to charge you for the privilege of having us monitor your usage.

[Napoleon's Shadow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JNFr_j6kdI

[CaptUSA]

That video is great. It identifies the REAL problem with smart metering. However, he's wrong about suggesting that this is something the power companies want to do. There may be some utilities that have found certain low-tech smart metering to be cost-effective, but in most cases, it's not. This is being pushed by governments. Supoosedly because of the tremendous efficiencies these meter will bring. (Outages, peak demand regulation, conservation abilities, real-time interval knowledge, etc.)

In PA, the utilities fought to keep Act 129 from becoming law because we didn't want to incur these huge expenses. Instead of nixing the idea, they provided us with cost-recovery mechanisms instead. We have to bill our customers for this invasion of their privacy. Can you refuse a meter? No. It's part of allowing us to provide you power. The only way to avoid a smart meter in PA will be to supply 100% of your own power.

[specialK]

Eventually this technology should be able to tell us about line loss and pinpoint where electricity is being diverted unmetered. The technology is not quite there yet. We should be able to meter the output of the substation, and monitor the usage at each metering point and have some sort of computer analyze the data to find out where there's a pocket of loss. It'll be pretty cool from our perspective when we can do that, but it's not there yet.


Are you saying that their claims about being able to reduce theft are untrue or am I misunderstanding (ignoring the $100 million claim)?

Reduce Electricity Theft

Legitimate customers bear the cost of electricity theft, which has grown significantly from approximately 500 GWh in 2006 to
an estimate of at least 850 GWh today—that’s enough power to supply 77,000 homes for a year and amounts to approximately
$100 million a year in energy cost.
Although BC Hydro has identified over 2,600 electricity thefts over the past five years,
identifying and confirming theft is a time-consuming, inefficient and expensive
manual process. While BC Hydro cannot reasonably expect to eliminate all electricity
theft, augmenting the current manual process with new technology will substantially
reduce current levels of theft by:
• Theft detection—New distribution system meters (different from those to be
installed at customer homes or businesses) located at key points on BC Hydro’s
system will measure electricity supplied to specific areas. Combined with software
tools to enable electricity balancing analysis, distribution system meters
will help BC Hydro identify electricity theft more accurately and address it
more quickly.
• Tamper detection—Smart meters have a tamper detection feature that
automatically notifies BC Hydro if they have been removed from the wall or
otherwise manipulated.

http://www.bchydro.com/etc/medialib/internet/documents/smi/smi_business_case.Par.0001.File.smi_business_case. pdf

[Birdlady]

I just saw something on another forum (probably can't say the name on here...) that companies were overcharging people for their electricity with their smart meters. I guess that is something to keep in mind if your bill goes up when they switch you over. Maybe that's how they are making all that extra $$ by ripping people off...

BTW CaptUSA, we live in the same town! :)

[CaptUSA]

Are you saying that their claims about being able to reduce theft are untrue or am I misunderstanding (ignoring the $100 million claim)?

No. They're true, but exagerrated.

There's two major parts to energy theft.

One is when you tamper with the meter. You will easily be able to find this with a smart meter as soon as it happens. This usually amounts to a small amount of loss, though. Most meters are read on a regular basis and this type of tampering is pretty easily noticed by a trained meter reader. Sure it takes a little while and there is some usage, but it doesn't usually go on for very long. Once it is found, the estimated unauthorized usage can be billed to the customer. If it's a sizable amount, the company may press charges. But this usage is paid for one way or another. (typically, those who steal power get billed and then it goes into the regular collection processes. They don't pay and the company writes it off and gets pennies on the dollar from a collection agency.) Smart metering will just catch this stuff earlier so the amounts built up will be smaller and more easily paid.

The other type of theft is when you tap directly into the line. This is where the technology doesn't quite exist yet. In theory, this is how it would work. The substation would have a meter which would indicate how much power is being delivered to everything on the circuit. (they may even install these at various points on the circuit, but again, each one you install increases the costs - not only of the equipment, but also of the programming and bandwidth) Then, you'd know how much power is being consumed at each location. Then, you'd have some software that could subtract the amount, adjust for line loss, and then let you know where there is an anomaly. Then someone would go investigate the anomaly and find someone tapped into the line. That's how it would work in theory and how they'll sell it to you. In reality, usage at homes is usually measured in intervals of 15 minutes or greater. There is a huge amount of fluctuation that can occur when you are talking about all the homes on a circuit or part of a circuit turning things on and off. It would be extremely difficult to recognize small anomalies. Unless you have an industrial plant tapping in illegally, you're probably not going to find much. The anomalies you do find, will probably not be worth the cost of the investigation to send someone out to try and find the cause.

I imagine that the more types of these distribution monitoring meters you have, the easier it will get for the software to model the losses, but do you really think it's cost effective? Maybe if you know of high risk areas.

I know that was long. But yeah, you can find people tampering real easy - it's peanuts and not really worth the costs since you end up charging for that usage anyway. But the technology to find people tapping into the line isn't ready yet. And in my experience, there're not really too many people tapping into power lines anyway. Usually, they do it at the service drop of a home. We're not going to find it any faster with smart meters than we do already.

[CaptUSA]

I just saw something on another forum (probably can't say the name on here...) that companies were overcharging people for their electricity with their smart meters. I guess that is something to keep in mind if your bill goes up when they switch you over. Maybe that's how they are making all that extra $$ by ripping people off...

BTW CaptUSA, we live in the same town! :)

Uh oh, Birdlady... Don't hunt me down when you get your bill!!

As far as the overcharging goes, though, it's not really because of the meter. It's because of a change in billing. With a regular meter, you are charged based on the monthly register. If you have a smart meter, the company may calculate your bill based on the intervals. And depending on the time of day, the cost of each interval can change. So if you use a lot of power during peak periods, you'll end up paying more. You won't ever hear from the people whose bills go down.

Also, in PA thanks to Act 129, there's a surcharge on everyone's bill to pay for the infrastructure of this program. (another ridiculous part of the surcharge goes to the energy efficiency plan - This is where we spend millions of dollars on advertising to get people to use less of our product. And then, if they do use less, we give them a rebate)

[Birdlady]

The person on the forum caught the company actually raising the rate per kilowatt. He proved it to them, but am not sure exactly what happened with it all. I'm pretty apathetic when it comes to local gov't stuff. I'll have to look into Act 129. Thanks for posting about it.

[Napoleon's Shadow]

I'm pretty apathetic when it comes to local gov't stuff. You shouldn't be. THAT's where you can have the most effect!

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

I remember seeing a program about energy efficiency regulations a while back, and one of the guests was saying how a certain city had banned plasma televisions and that the city could have the utility turn it off with the press of a button in their shop.

Anyone here of this ?

[NiceGoing]

Ok, now. This is my area of expertise. There are many problems with smart metering technology, but this article is clearly not scientifically based. First thing first, SMI technology is rapidly advancing so each type of device is different. The meters installed 3 years ago are completely different from the ones installed today. The health concerns are ridiculous, but the interference concerns may be real depending on the device.

Most of these use some sort of cell phone technology and just like your cell can interfere with some of your equipment, so can your meter. However, most of these concerns are alleviated by meter and appliance placement. If this is not possible, there are othe means of communicating with the meter (Power line carrier, BPL...), but you will probably pay for it.

So let's get real here. No sense scaring people with nonsense when there's so many real issues to be concerned about.

1st, the security on these things is ever advancing, but so are the methods of attack. These are basically small computers that are attached to a larger network. Each of them poses a risk to attack. And just like your computers, breaches will happen until the security folks figure out the attack and respond.

2nd, even if eveything goes 100% secure, there has to be some concern about the ability to see the inner workings of your home. I will be able to see your electric usage real time in intervals as small as 5 minutes. I will also have access to your entire neighborhood and if you have appliances integrated with your smart meter, I will be able to adjust your appliances while you are away.

The benefits are huge also. I'll be able to calculate the amount of expected usage on any given day and alter the generation accordingly. I'll be able to tell exactly which locations have lost power during a storm to get your power back on faster. I will be able to turn your power on and off when you move out or when you're away from your hunting camp.

The worst thing? the electric companies don't really want to do this. It's not cost-effective. The only reason we're doing it is because your government is making us.

Hmm. "Nothing much to see here, just move on" is the message I get from this message. BUT from all that I've read -that is not truthful. For instance, you have not addressed the startling surveillance capability of these Things, and I do mean Things. Please address that, since you do claim great knowledgeability in this area. Thanks.

[CaptUSA]

Hmm. "Nothing much to see here, just move on" is the message I get from this message. BUT from all that I've read -that is not truthful. For instance, you have not addressed the startling surveillance capability of these Things, and I do mean Things. Please address that, since you do claim great knowledgeability in this area. Thanks.

Sure. As I said in my post, there are real serious implications with these things. I apologize for the length of my posts, but I've been working on this stuff for the last few years in great detail. Act 129 in PA has forced us to implement a program that we know is not cost-effective.

In my 2nd reason, I touched on the "surveillance" capabilities. But let me get more in depth. These meters measure how much electricity you are using in intervals as small as 5 minutes. (usually it's 15-30, but depending on the meter can be as low as 5) This usage will be sent back to the power company on a regular basis (our plan calls for each hour). These intervals will be sent in many ways. Your meter may have a cell phone chip, it may send it over the power line, it may go over the phone line (rare) or it may go through "meter hops". That's when your interval is sent to another meter, then another, then another, until it gets to a central collection hub. This is a self-healing network so even when something interferes with the transmission, your data will find another way to report in. We will still lose some intervals, but our MDMS (meter data management system) will be able to calculate typical usage for any interval for any home. We will be able to estimate any missed intervals based upon typical usage, time of day, temperature, neighbors' usage, and other variables. If your usage for any interval is atypical, it will send us an alarm. We'll be getting tons of alarms so our system will filter out some and only send us the really important ones to examine. That's scary enough, but it gets worse.

Smart meters are also design to be linked up to In-Home Devices and Programmable Controllable Thermostats (IHD's and PCT's). These will be for your convenice, of course. With the IHD, you will be able to see how much power you're using at any given moment and the cost of each kWh. That way you can adjust your usage for off-peak periods and save money. We can also send you messages through your IHD. (It will be on the wall inside your home - yeah, I know!) The PCT's are even more scary. You can hook up appliances (AC, water heater, refrigerator, etc.) and during times of peak periods, you can allow us to turn down these devices for you even if you're not home.

So what does this mean? Your power company will have complete knowledge of everyone's typical usage. Any anomalies will be flagged for investigation. We will also have the capability to actually adjust the usage of our customers. The thing that really makes this scary is that, while this will help us conduct our business, we know it costs too much to be worth it. So what's the real reason why the government is making us do it? Once this system is in place and functional, I can easily foresee them taking over. Act 129 has provisions in the law that if we don't meet certain energy reduction thresholds, then the government can come in to tell us how to run it. And once they have access to our systems for one purpose, you know they'll utilize it for others.

Smart meters are bad. Really, really bad. I didn't mean to have my post leave the opposite impression. It's the privacy concerns that are the problem, though, just not the health concerns. I've done quite a bit of studying on everything I've seen shows them to be safe to you health. They are not safe to your freedom though.

[CaptUSA]

The person on the forum caught the company actually raising the rate per kilowatt. He proved it to them, but am not sure exactly what happened with it all. I'm pretty apathetic when it comes to local gov't stuff. I'll have to look into Act 129. Thanks for posting about it.
Hmm.. not sure about the kWh rate going up, but I doubt it was because of the smart meter unless that was the cost recovery mechanism used by that particular company. Some use surcharges, some build it into their rate case. If they're billed on intervals, the kWh during the day will be higher than overnight, though. Maybe that's what they're finding??

Oh, and please look into Act 129. It passed quietly during Ed Rendell's reign. We were hoping a new administration would repeal it, but that does not seem to be the case. they're just as gung ho as the last.

[NiceGoing]

--snip--


So what does this mean? Your power company will have complete knowledge of everyone's typical usage. Any anomalies will be flagged for investigation. We will also have the capability to actually adjust the usage of our customers. The thing that really makes this scary is that, while this will help us conduct our business, we know it costs too much to be worth it.

So what's the real reason why the government is making us do it? Once this system is in place and functional, I can easily foresee them taking over. Act 129 has provisions in the law that if we don't meet certain energy reduction thresholds, then the government can come in to tell us how to run it. And once they have access to our systems for one purpose, you know they'll utilize it for others.

Smart meters are bad. Really, really bad. I didn't mean to have my post leave the opposite impression. It's the privacy concerns that are the problem, though, just not the health concerns. I've done quite a bit of studying on everything I've seen shows them to be safe to you health. They are not safe to your freedom though.

Thanks for your input on this threat to our freedoms. I am posting below the link to a [very scary] article which further verifies your view stated here.

Sorry for the bad news, folks but facts just Are...what they are .:cool:



http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/no-more-privacy-smart-meters-are-surveillance-devices-that-monitor-the-behavior-in-your-home-every-single-minute-of-every-single-day

[Zippyjuan]

Uh oh, Birdlady... Don't hunt me down when you get your bill!!

As far as the overcharging goes, though, it's not really because of the meter. It's because of a change in billing. With a regular meter, you are charged based on the monthly register. If you have a smart meter, the company may calculate your bill based on the intervals. And depending on the time of day, the cost of each interval can change. So if you use a lot of power during peak periods, you'll end up paying more. You won't ever hear from the people whose bills go down.

Also, in PA thanks to Act 129, there's a surcharge on everyone's bill to pay for the infrastructure of this program. (another ridiculous part of the surcharge goes to the energy efficiency plan - This is where we spend millions of dollars on advertising to get people to use less of our product. And then, if they do use less, we give them a rebate)

When they switched to smart meters in my neighborhood, my first bill was quite a bit higher but the next one was lower than average- offsetting that (perhaps a different number of days they counted- I didn't check on that) and have since run about the same as before (I am a very low energy user- my bill is usually only about $35 a month).

[CaptUSA]

When they switched to smart meters in my neighborhood, my first bill was quite a bit higher but the next one was lower than average- offsetting that (perhaps a different number of days they counted- I didn't check on that) and have since run about the same as before (I am a very low energy user- my bill is usually only about $35 a month).

I'm really curious about what kind of smart meter you have. Is it a powerline carrier (turtle) meter? Does it have two-way communication? Are you billed on intervals? Do you have any IHD's?

I do have another question... Can anybody come up with another company that is forced to spend millions of dollars on advertising to encourage their consumers to use less of their product? And then, if the consumer responds by using less, the company has to pay them for using less?

I think the tobacco companies come close, but still not as crazy as what they do to utilities.

[Zippyjuan]

You can learn more about the system in my neighborhood here: http://www.sdge.com/smartmeter/

[CaptUSA]

Ok, your system are true smart meters capable of 2-way communication.

They use bill inclusion for cost-recovery. (It's in the rates, not another line on your bill)

You do not have a choice about getting the meter.

It looks like they will charge you based upon the intervals - hourly for residential customers. (Couldn't tell, though, you may still be able to get charged by the register.

They expect the operational saving to be around $60 million a year and the cost of the whole thing to be around $500 million.

AND YES> They're doing it because California is making them.

[Kelly.]

is it possible to know what type of load is being run behind the main panel.
specifically as it relates to a 100w incandescent type bulb vs any other 100w load? (sans any IHD)

[CaptUSA]

is it possible to know what type of load is being run behind the main panel.
specifically as it relates to a 100w incandescent type bulb vs any other 100w load? (sans any IHD)

I'm not sure what you're trying to ask about load running "behind" the panel... Care to elaborate?

[Anti Federalist]

I'm not sure what you're trying to ask about load running "behind" the panel... Care to elaborate?

Have you run across systems that can determine what type of load is on a grid, at a specific home?

Inductive (motors), resistance (incandescent bulbs, heaters, ovens) or transformers, (power supplies, wall warts, electronics)?

It is in regard to this thread:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?293579-Are-You-Ready-to-Pay-50-for-a-100-Watt-Bulb

[Created4]

Ok, now. This is my area of expertise. The health concerns are ridiculous....

Care to share your research refuting the health concerns of EMFs? Plenty of research out there states otherwise:
http://healthimpactnews.com/2011/cell-phone-use-linked-to-brain-tumors/
http://healthimpactnews.com/2011/do-cell-phone-signals-cause-brain-tumors/

[dannno]

So if you use a lot of power during peak periods, you'll end up paying more.

When should I turn on my grow lights :confused:

[dannno]

is it possible to know what type of load is being run behind the main panel.
specifically as it relates to a 100w incandescent type bulb vs any other 100w load? (sans any IHD)

Watts are calculated as volts x amps, so 100 watt bulb is the same as a 100 watt speaker.

However if your refrigerator or other appliances run intermittently, then it is harder to calculate. You can buy a kill-a-watt energy usage monitor for about $30.

[Danke]

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/07/smart-meters-avoid-implied-consent-to.html

[libertyjam]

When should I turn on my grow lights :confused:

to save money, at night.

[Danke]

When should I turn on my grow lights :confused:

Don't you live in Sunny California? Just bring your plants outside.

[libertyjam]

Watts are calculated as volts x amps, so 100 watt bulb is the same as a 100 watt speaker.

However if your refrigerator or other appliances run intermittently, then it is harder to calculate. You can buy a kill-a-watt energy usage monitor for about $30.

Speakers are more inductive than a light bulb, and motors are very inductive loads, so utilities spend a lot of time an figuring Power Factor Correction. Power supply (user) designers also usually have a Power Factor spec to design to so that not too much power is wasted by the phase differences (lead or lag) induced by the load the input to the power supply presents. The Power Factor tells you how much the difference is between the apparent power supplied to the load (straight rms volts x amps calculation) and the real power consumed by the load ( the in-phase portions of the current and voltage waveforms). The difference between the apparent and real power figures mostly ends up as excess heating in the line.

[CaptUSA]

Have you run across systems that can determine what type of load is on a grid, at a specific home?

Inductive (motors), resistance (incandescent bulbs, heaters, ovens) or transformers, (power supplies, wall warts, electronics)?

Oh, now I see what was asked... The wording of the earlier post got me.

I'm not aware of any smart meter that is able to figure out exactly what appliance is being run inside the home. That being said, certain appliances have fairly unique signatures - meaning time, frequency, and duration of operation. For example, your washer probably runs about the same length of time each time you run it. And it uses nearly the same amount of energy. I suppose it's possible with some analysis to figure out those sigantures for your home and identify which appliance you are running at any given time. It's a stretch though.

Now, with IHD's, PCT's, it becomes easier.

[Anti Federalist]

Oh, now I see what was asked... The wording of the earlier post got me.

I'm not aware of any smart meter that is able to figure out exactly what appliance is being run inside the home. That being said, certain appliances have fairly unique signatures - meaning time, frequency, and duration of operation. For example, your washer probably runs about the same length of time each time you run it. And it uses nearly the same amount of energy. I suppose it's possible with some analysis to figure out those sigantures for your home and identify which appliance you are running at any given time. It's a stretch though.

Now, with IHD's, PCT's, it becomes easier.

So, just to be clear, it is possible to determine the individual loads on a house grid?

[DamianTV]

All this is comes from the Power Company not being able to pry as much private information out of peope as Phone Companies, Internet Service Providers, and Satellite Dish Broadcasters can get. The Power Company wants to sell your Private Info without your permission too.

[CaptUSA]

All this is comes from the Power Company not being able to pry as much private information out of peope as Phone Companies, Internet Service Providers, and Satellite Dish Broadcasters can get. The Power Company wants to sell your Private Info without your permission too.

I can only speak for my power company, but I can 100% guarantee you that we do NOT want this. The only reason we're doing this is because we have to follow the law that is mandating us to do so. In fact, we fought against the legislation prior to it being passed, but we failed because not enough people pay attention. And it doesn't help that we sell a product to which most people feel entitled. Therefore, they dislike the fact that we charge for this product. And if we are the only ones against such legislation, it may actually make more people in favor of it because "if the power company's against it, it must be a good thing."

I don't know what kind of market is going to develop in the future, but since we will be sitting on plenty of this kind of information, it makes sense that market forces may incent us to sell it. I hope that doesn't happen, but I also hoped this legislation wouldn't have passed in our state in the first place.

[CaptUSA]

So, just to be clear, it is possible to determine the individual loads on a house grid?

Yeah, I suppose it is. It's probably still a few years away, but the foot's in the door.

[Anti Federalist]

Yeah, I suppose it is. It's probably still a few years away, but the foot's in the door.

Thanks for your input, it's appreciated.

What is happening here, in case you were curious, is a long simmering argument that revolved around a statement that I made in a "mandated CFL lighting" thread, where I said that using prohibited lighting will get you a visit from the cops in the future, as they will be able to monitor precise electrical usage amount and what is using it.

In other words a prohibited incandescent bulb being used could be picked up by the smart grid, reported back to the utility, who then report it to the cops, thus earning your visit from Officer Friendly and his pals.

I was told, in no uncertain terms, that I was nuts, that no such system was possible, even after posting links to commercially available units that are on the market right now, that can monitor exact usage on each part of house grid and what type of appliance is using that power.

Like this one, just for example:


Highly Detailed Information Puts Users In Control

Sometimes it can be hard to figure out where your energy is going within your home. But with monitoring systems like this, the information can get extremely detailed. With Agilewaves' system, users can look at energy use in each room of the home, and will soon be able to see pinpointed information down to even the exact appliance and outlet.

Already, a parent can see if their teen has been watching television in their room all night long. But in the next iteration of the system, they'll be able to pinpoint, say, a leaky irrigation system as the reason for a spike in their water bill.

Additionally, the system itself uses an extremely low wattage - between 20 and 30 watts depending on the size of the system - so it makes as little impact on homeowners' energy use as possible.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008...t-wcg-2008.php

Here's a GE system that does that, will be on the market in the fall:


Nucleus™ is a communication and data storage device that plugs into a regular home electrical outlet and communicates with the home's smart meter. It provides secure information about household electricity consumption and costs via simple home computer interfaces (and, in the near future, via smart phone applications) so you can make active choices to lower bills and improve energy efficiency. Nucleus can also be set to automatically control a GE smart thermostat or alter the consumption of GE smart appliances in response to utility price signals—adding new levels of convenience, savings potential, and control.
http://www.geappliances.com/home-ene...nitor-faqs.htm

Here's another system:


TED 5004-C
$455.80
Model 5004-C comes with all the components necessary to monitor energy usage from four sources, along with a sleek, wireless display. Users can access their data on their computer or mobile device to track energy usage, monitor up to five individual appliances, project monthly bills, and view historical data. The data from all four MTUs is logged/graphed separately, but can also be seen in aggregate as well.

The TED 5004-C package has the option to integrate with Google PowerMeter and includes:
-Four Measuring Transmitting Units with four sets of Current Transformers (Four MTU/CT sets)
-One Gateway embedded with Footprints software
-One sleek, wireless Display with AC/DC charger and charging stand

http://www.theenergydetective.com/store/ted-5000

To me, it's no stretch whatsoever to think that information could not be linked in to the smart grid system and thus transmitted to the utility.

Now, of course these are stand alone IHDs that have to be linked into the system, but as the technology rapidly progresses I can see these being incorporated into the smart meter itself, or maybe IHDs being mandated.

That government would mandate that your home have an IHD that can constantly monitor and report back to the grid what you are using at any particular time is no more nuts technologically or politically speaking than government mandating that buy health insurance or...banning light bulbs.

I can see this happening in the next couple of years and also (joy) being used as the "camel's nose" to start placing video surveillance into private homes as well, once the precedent has been set.

[Zippyjuan]

Can a lamp tell what sort of lightbulb is in it? Unless they add some sort of chip to it, there is no way to tell what sort of light bulb you are using. It might be able to tell how many watts you are using. (it is not illegal to use incadecent bulbs anyways).

[Anti Federalist]

Can a lamp tell what sort of lightbulb is in it? Unless they add some sort of chip to it, there is no way to tell what sort of light bulb you are using. It might be able to tell how many watts you are using. (it is not illegal to use incadecent bulbs anyways).

No, a plain old lamp cannot.

The systems I posted can, the system I have on my vessel can.

Let me make it clear once again: the technology exists to tell exactly what type of load is on a particular circuit, it can differentiate between a resistive load like an incandescent bulb and a more passive load like a CFL. And if it's linked into the smart grid, it could send that data back to the utility or anybody else.

And no, it's not illegal to use an incandescent now, hell it's not illegal to buy them...yet.

It didn't start out being a federal felony to tamper with or remove vehicle emissions controls either.