Liberty Poll: Should Pennsylvania Liquor Stores be privatized?

[Cowlesy]

Vote now please!

hxxp://www.newsworks.org/index.php/component/apoll/apoll/215-should-pennsylvania-liquor-stores-be-privatized

(link is broke - please delete xx's to make it functional)

Currently 207 YAY, 205 NAY, 6 i dunno.

[CaptUSA]

Thanks for this...

+rep

[Zatch]

Why would anyone be against this?

[eduardo89]

No is winning.

[CaptUSA]

Why would anyone be against this?

they consider it a revenue stream for the state government.

[TheViper]

Penn liquor stores are publicly owned?

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Penn liquor stores are publicly owned?

This, I dont get it. ???

[CaseyJones]

voted

[Anti Federalist]

Penn liquor stores are publicly owned?

So are NH's.

Throwback to the end of Prohibition.

Truth be told, I'm not that upset about it.

Beer and wine can be sold anywhere, distilled liquor requires a trip to the state liquor store.

The stores are numerous, they keep decent hours, the selection is good and prices are cheap. Essentially the exact opposite of anything you would expect from a government run enterprise.

And it helps fund the state budget without raising taxes.

[Carehn]

WOW No is winning. Who would vote no?

[dannno]

Truth be told, I'm not that upset about it.

lol, you about made me faint..

[Anti Federalist]

lol, you about made me faint..

LoL

[torchbearer]

in louisiana, not only can private owners sell alcohol. they can sell it through a drive through window.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

in louisiana, not only can private owners sell alcohol. they can sell it through a drive through window.

Yeah we have those here in Florida as well. It's like a pit-stop for alcohol and liquor! :p

[LibertyEagle]

in louisiana, not only can private owners sell alcohol. they can sell it through a drive through window.

Here in Texas too.

[fisharmor]

WOW No is winning. Who would vote no?

I am abstaining from voting because of the terminology used. I know what the intent of the question is - but that's not what "privatization" means.
Privatization is the word they use when they want to take a state monopoly and turn it over to a private individual to continue running as a monopoly.
I'm never going to show favor for the term.


in louisiana, not only can private owners sell alcohol. they can sell it through a drive through window.

Well, no offense TB but I've lived in LA, and MD and DC are right across the border with its private liquor stores, and the tendency is for localities that have private liquor stores to be places to visit when the need arises (or outright shitholes), and the places with state stores to be generally pleasant places to live.

IIRC Colorado would be one exception - I think the liquor stores were private ( I was underage then ) but I'm pretty sure they had a 3.2 law at the time as well.

[ClayTrainor]

in louisiana, not only can private owners sell alcohol. they can sell it through a drive through window.


Yeah we have those here in Florida as well. It's like a pit-stop for alcohol and liquor! :p


Here in Texas too.

That's awesome, I've never even imagined the possibility of drive through liquor stores before. Where I live it's illegal to have liquor anywhere in your car, except the trunk and the only vendors are 2 government owned entities. One for Beer one for Liquor.

[guitarlifter]

So are NH's.

Throwback to the end of Prohibition.

Truth be told, I'm not that upset about it.

Beer and wine can be sold anywhere, distilled liquor requires a trip to the state liquor store.

The stores are numerous, they keep decent hours, the selection is good and prices are cheap. Essentially the exact opposite of anything you would expect from a government run enterprise.

And it helps fund the state budget without raising taxes.

It still violates the rights of those who wish to privately own a liquor store. Shouldn't we try to protect everyone's rights and not just the ones we care about?

[torchbearer]

I am abstaining from voting because of the terminology used. I know what the intent of the question is - but that's not what "privatization" means.
Privatization is the word they use when they want to take a state monopoly and turn it over to a private individual to continue running as a monopoly.
I'm never going to show favor for the term.



Well, no offense TB but I've lived in LA, and MD and DC are right across the border with its private liquor stores, and the tendency is for localities that have private liquor stores to be places to visit when the need arises (or outright shitholes), and the places with state stores to be generally pleasant places to live.

IIRC Colorado would be one exception - I think the liquor stores were private ( I was underage then ) but I'm pretty sure they had a 3.2 law at the time as well.

we have nice liquor stores too. Hocus Pocus in Alexandria is a fine store. huge selection. even have wine tastings on thursday nights.

[Elwar]

If you privatize the liquor industry in Pennsylvania anarchy will ensue.

How would these liquor stores be paid for if not for taxpayer money? What if a single Corporation bought all of the liquor stores and refused to sell liquor? The liquor store owners might put cameras in their stores which would infringe on your privacy.

The public liquor stores were set up using eminent domain. Now you want to give away eminent domain liquor stores to possibly foreign corporations?!?

What about poor people who need liquor?

There are too many variables and private liquor stores are just too radical...it is best to leave such matters in the hands of publicly elected officials.

[123tim]

So are NH's.

Throwback to the end of Prohibition.

Truth be told, I'm not that upset about it.


Beer and wine can be sold anywhere, distilled liquor requires a trip to the state liquor store.

The stores are numerous, they keep decent hours, the selection is good and prices are cheap. Essentially the exact opposite of anything you would expect from a government run enterprise.

And it helps fund the state budget without raising taxes.


It's not quite the same here in PA. I don't quite understand all the workings of it, but you can only get alcohol at a state store or beer distributor. (I don't think that a beer distributor can sell hard liquor - I might be wrong about this though.) I was sort of surprised on my first trip to Maryland when I saw beer in a convenience store. Seemed strange to me.

[Keith and stuff]

WOW No is winning. Who would vote no?

Maybe they don't want an income or sales tax increase combined with increased liquor prices.

[Keith and stuff]

So are NH's.

Throwback to the end of Prohibition.

Truth be told, I'm not that upset about it.

Beer and wine can be sold anywhere, distilled liquor requires a trip to the state liquor store.

The stores are numerous, they keep decent hours, the selection is good and prices are cheap. Essentially the exact opposite of anything you would expect from a government run enterprise.

And it helps fund the state budget without raising taxes.

Yeah, the NH system is good compared to any of the other systems I know of. Of course, a free market would be better but that doesn't exist anywhere. As long as we are going to have a very heavily regulated alcohol industry, it might as well also be one that creates low prices. The people of CT love the NH system as their cars tend to be the ones I see in the NH State Liquor Store parking lot in Westmoreland, NH near I-91.

There is actually a 2012 bill to allow liquor to be sold in grocery stores but I doubt it will pass because it would likely mean 100 million or so in increased taxes. Of course, a lot of progress is being made in NH anyway. This year 3 bills passed. One of the bills reduces regulations on wine samples/sales. Another reduce beer production fees. Another reduces regulations on advertising alcohol prices.

[Carehn]

Maybe they don't want an income or sales tax increase combined with increased liquor prices.

Did i miss something? Thats not what it asks. and why would prices go up?

[Keith and stuff]

Did i miss something? Thats not what it asks. and why would prices go up?

A part of the PA state budget is paid for by the profit of selling the wine and liquor at government stores. Without that funding, other taxes would likely go up. The political folks in PA wouldn't go for privatizing the stores and cutting spending so taxes would need to go up.

As for prices, currently, the state doesn't have to pay property taxes or excessive fees to itself. However, if private companies were selling the wine and liquor, that would change and prices would go up to cover the property taxes and increases in other taxes and fees.

[Theocrat]

in louisiana, not only can private owners sell alcohol. they can sell it through a drive through window.


Yeah we have those here in Florida as well. It's like a pit-stop for alcohol and liquor! :p


Here in Texas too.

So it is in Illinois, too.

[Anti Federalist]

It still violates the rights of those who wish to privately own a liquor store. Shouldn't we try to protect everyone's rights and not just the ones we care about?

Yeah, I suppose, and I know that sounds callous, but the fact is nobody is really bitching that their right to sell distilled liquor is being violated. Nobody's, AFAIK, looking to open liquor stores and being denied, the profits go to the general fund to help protect the rights of all taxpayers to not have more money extorted.

Frankly, with 6 wars now raging, the dollar on verge of collapse, TSA goons sticking their hands down children's pants, and O-Bomb-Ya preparing to roll out new citizen disarmament measures, we've got bigger fish to fry right now.

[specsaregood]

Yeah, I suppose, and I know that sounds callous, but the fact is nobody is really bitching that their right to sell distilled liquor is being violated. Nobody's, AFAIK, looking to open liquor stores and being denied, the profits go to the general fund to help protect the rights of all taxpayers to not have more money extorted.

Frankly, with 6 wars now raging, the dollar on verge of collapse, TSA goons sticking their hands down children's pants, and O-Bomb-Ya preparing to roll out new citizen disarmament measures, we've got bigger fish to fry right now.

Frankly you are right, you can't even brew your own beer in Alabama without breaking the law. Fry that fish first....or end the wars -- I guess that will do.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Frankly you are right, you can't even brew your own beer in Alabama without breaking the law. Fry that fish first....or end the wars -- I guess that will do.

Seems like a false dichotomy to me. Why can't the NH House work on ending the State monopoly, and fight back against DC by bringing the National Guard home, kicking out the TSA, and to legalize the use of gold and silver? Are they that inept that they can only feasibly work on one item during the whole session?

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

I cant imagine. Im from new orleans, we can buy liquor pretty much anywhere (gas stations, supermarkets, drive thrus, at anytime of the day or night.

[fisharmor]

It's not quite the same here in PA. I don't quite understand all the workings of it, but you can only get alcohol at a state store or beer distributor. (I don't think that a beer distributor can sell hard liquor - I might be wrong about this though.) I was sort of surprised on my first trip to Maryland when I saw beer in a convenience store. Seemed strange to me.

Yeah they used to be closed by law on Sundays too, but that got overturned 10 or so years ago.
If you want strange, take a trip to Amsterdam sometime. I think I realized for the first time just how broken this country is as I sat passing a hash pipe between friends and reading a pamphlet suggesting how to get better if you smoke too much or what to do if you have a dispute with a prostitue, which was produced and distributed by the police.

[Carehn]

A part of the PA state budget is paid for by the profit of selling the wine and liquor at government stores. Without that funding, other taxes would likely go up. The political folks in PA wouldn't go for privatizing the stores and cutting spending so taxes would need to go up.

As for prices, currently, the state doesn't have to pay property taxes or excessive fees to itself. However, if private companies were selling the wine and liquor, that would change and prices would go up to cover the property taxes and increases in other taxes and fees.

so why not just have state government run all industry and prices on everything would fall. Are you saying the government is subsidizing the price of liquor? if so then taxes would go down if you privatized it.

You cant have it both ways bro.

If you TRULY privatized liquor the price would come down. And i don't know how much of the state rides on taxes from it but im guessing it could be cut. It may not even need to be cut. Tax revenue may increase from the pic up in the local economy from money saved by not propping up state run monopoly and spend on other things.

We can go into detail but something tells me forced monopoly is not good for the people. Just a shot in the dark i guess.

[brandon]

One of my biggest pet peeves with our state-run liquor monopoly is the abysmal selection of scotch. There's a total of about 30 different varieties of scotch legally allowed to be sold in PA. I'd love to build a big interesting scotch collection..but I can't buy most of the things I want here.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

How much would a pint of grey goose cost in one of these state ran joints?

[brandon]

How much would a pint of grey goose cost in one of these state ran joints?

I'd guess that a 5th (.75L) would run about $32. I'm not a vodka drinker though so not totally sure on that.

[Vessol]

Are there states that allow privatized liquor sales? I thought it was a given that only the States could run liquor stores. Eh, it's stupid really. Especially 'blue' laws that prohibit the sale of liquor on sunday.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

I'd guess that a 5th (.75L) would run about $32. I'm not a vodka drinker though so not totally sure on that.

Geez really?

It's about 18.99 here.

[specialK]

///

[Carehn]

Geez really?

It's about 18.99 here.

Why don't you start shipping it out to people like me. You could make money. We could save money. The state could get the shaft. Its a WIN, WIN, WIN.

PM ME.


Just a joke. I would never suggest anything illegal.

[angelatc]

voted

[DamianTV]

Vote now please!

hxxp://www.newsworks.org/index.php/component/apoll/apoll/215-should-pennsylvania-liquor-stores-be-privatized

(link is broke - please delete xx's to make it functional)

Currently 207 YAY, 205 NAY, 6 i dunno.

I'll explain why some people will vote NO.

But first, I need someone to explain why Privatizing would help, and what exactly is the Current Situation in Pennsylvania. The link doesnt really provide any info. Are the Current Liquor Stores owned and operated by the State of Pennsylvania, or are they owned by Individuals? If the Liquor Stores are owned by Individuals, will "Privatizing" take away ownership from the Current Owners (Individuals) and give it to The State? However, if the Liquor Stores are Owned by The State, then I could see tha Prvatizing would give ownership of the stores to the People, and not the State.

I need to know a little bit more about the situation before I will vote. End Women's Suffrage Now! Wait... Suffrage is the RIGHT TO VOTE. If you know a little bit more about what you are voting for, people will better understand the consequences of their decisions when voting.

[Keith and stuff]

so why not just have state government run all industry and prices on everything would fall. Are you saying the government is subsidizing the price of liquor? if so then taxes would go down if you privatized it.

You cant have it both ways bro.

If you TRULY privatized liquor the price would come down. And i don't know how much of the state rides on taxes from it but im guessing it could be cut. It may not even need to be cut. Tax revenue may increase from the pic up in the local economy from money saved by not propping up state run monopoly and spend on other things.

We can go into detail but something tells me forced monopoly is not good for the people. Just a shot in the dark i guess.

Government isn't subsidizing the price of liquor. Government makes money off of liquor if government allows the liquor to be sold in licensed bars, licensed stores or it's own stores.

I certainly don't support government selling liquor, not at all. I voted Yes in the poll. I'm just trying to explain the system and how possible changes to the system would change other things.

I'd love to see a free market in liquor. Of course, there is nothing close to that in any state and there will not be any time soon. The PA proposal certainly isn't about creating a free market in liquor sales. It's true that on a state level, PA is one of the most regulated states when it comes to alcohol (even beer) and that sucks for the people that live in/ visit PA.

For example, there is a 2012 bill to allow liquor to be sold in grocery stores in NH. The main sponsor claims that if it is done a certain way, the state of NH will make even more money by doing this. I look forward to reading the bill but I am highly skeptical of it's chances.

[Keith and stuff]

Are there states that allow privatized liquor sales? I thought it was a given that only the States could run liquor stores. Eh, it's stupid really. Especially 'blue' laws that prohibit the sale of liquor on sunday.

Only in around 9 states does that state government run every single aspect of the liquor stores. Sunday sales aren't related to if the state runs the stores or not.

Taxes by state
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/245.html

Various alcohol related laws by state
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States_by_state
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage_control_state

[TheViper]

One of my biggest pet peeves with our state-run liquor monopoly is the abysmal selection of scotch. There's a total of about 30 different varieties of scotch legally allowed to be sold in PA. I'd love to build a big interesting scotch collection..but I can't buy most of the things I want here.

Tell me they are least carry The Macallan or Glenmorangie?

[Krugerrand]

State stores should not be privatized ... they should be abolished. PA wants to sell off the state stores to private companies .... but you can expect what will be involved with that ... graft and corruption. As the state continues to control who gets to sell the wine and booze the politicians continue to get kick backs and charge monies that they have no business charging. I'd rather the state own it corruption being used to enrich the well-connected.

Abolish the state store and let any business establishment sell whatever they want. I should be able to go into any grocery store and buy a bottle of merlot or a bottle of bourbon.

[brandon]

Tell me they are least carry The Macallan or Glenmorangie?

Yea they do have some varieties of each.

But they don't have Macallan 12 or 15. They only carry the 10 and the 18.

[Carehn]

Government isn't subsidizing the price of liquor. Government makes money off of liquor if government allows the liquor to be sold in licensed bars, licensed stores or it's own stores.

I certainly don't support government selling liquor, not at all. I voted Yes in the poll. I'm just trying to explain the system and how possible changes to the system would change other things.

I'd love to see a free market in liquor. Of course, there is nothing close to that in any state and there will not be any time soon. The PA proposal certainly isn't about creating a free market in liquor sales. It's true that on a state level, PA is one of the most regulated states when it comes to alcohol (even beer) and that sucks for the people that live in/ visit PA.

For example, there is a 2012 bill to allow liquor to be sold in grocery stores in NH. The main sponsor claims that if it is done a certain way, the state of NH will make even more money by doing this. I look forward to reading the bill but I am highly skeptical of it's chances.

I see. and ya i think we both feel the same way about it.

But yes, I am foolish to think a yes vote means what i want it to mean. Now way it could. People never get the true freedom option. After all, it could win. and we cant have that now can we?