Focusing on Blue Republicans is a Waste of Time

[radiofriendly]

Please watch and respond:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YwZqXDH07c

This was my video response to this article:
http://www.dailypaul.com/170574/only-blue-republicans-grassroots-can-save-the-ron-paul-campaign

Update, July 15th:
Not saying that the concept of Blue Republicans is a waste of time, but FOCUSING on them.
*I updated the title of this thread with the word, "mostly."

Take what I'm saying here with a grain of salt.:cool:

[acptulsa]

Focusing on trollish naysayers is a waste of time. Even if they're campaign functionaries. Just pwn them and move on with your good work.

[CaptUSA]

I hate to pan your video because I know you put some time into organizing your thoughts and creating the vid, but we need everyone we can get.

It's tempting to put people - voters - into groups and treat them as collectives, but isn't it wiser to treat people as individuals? I mean, isn't that what this whole campaign is about? I'd rahter have a million tentacles reaching out to as many different people, than waste our time trying to centrally plan a win.

If you don't like a particular tactic, don't employ it. Focus your energy where you think it is best served. And even if someone else's tactics may be of little value in your estimation, they still provide a value. Each of us need to do what we feel comfortable doing and what excites us.

I just don't want anyone throwing cold water on someone else's efforts.

[VegasPatriot]

So basically your opinion is do not expand the base. Focus on likely GOP voters only... even if many establishment GOPers hate RP and will never vote for RP in a caucus or primary (but they will vote for RP in the general election)... continue to beat that dead horse. It does not matter if non republicans can be convinced to become Ron Paul republicans. Focus only on the establishment GOP. Do not expand the base.

Got it... good luck with that.

[VegasPatriot]

I hate to pan your video because I know you put some time into organizing your thoughts and creating the vid, but we need everyone we can get.

It's tempting to put people - voters - into groups and treat them as collectives, but isn't it wiser to treat people as individuals? I mean, isn't that what this whole campaign is about? I'd rahter have a million tentacles reaching out to as many different people, than waste our time trying to centrally plan a win.

If you don't like a particular tactic, don't employ it. Focus your energy where you think it is best served. And even if someone else's tactics may be of little value in your estimation, they still provide a value. Each of us need to do what we feel comfortable doing and what excites us.

I just don't want anyone throwing cold water on someone else's efforts.
+ rep

[acptulsa]

I would say demonizing our fastest-growing demographic is a waste of time. But it's something far, far worse than that. It's the best way we've got to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[mczerone]

Thunder... Thunder... THUNDER... THUNDERCATS! HO!

[ninepointfive]

I convinced two libs to switch to R and goto the caucus for Ron Paul back in 2008. Even an ex girlfriend who hated me. BLUE REPUBLICANS ARE NOT A WASTE OF TIME. They are a good use of time, because dems and independents are who we need to win!

[acptulsa]

I convinced two libs to switch to R and goto the caucus for Ron Paul back in 2008. Even an ex girlfriend who hated me. BLUE REPUBLICANS ARE NOT A WASTE OF TIME. They are a good use of time, because dems and independents are who we need to win!

Good job.

This isn't about the false paradigm of left v. right. Not any more. This is the corporatists versus We, the People. And I do mean all of We.

Deomonize class warfare all you want. We, the People did NOT fire the first shot. Or the second. Or the third...

We need to start fighting back about a decade ago. Or sooner.

[Romulus]

Not a waste of time.

[MRoCkEd]

There are certainly exceptions, but generally it is a more efficient use of time to convince likely GOP voters to support Ron, rather than convincing Dems to switch parties and vote for Ron. Use your judgement.

[acptulsa]

There are certainly exceptions, but generally it is a more efficient use of time to convince likely GOP voters to support Ron, rather than convincing Dems to switch parties and vote for Ron. Use your judgement.

In my judgement, I'm anti-authoritarian enough to piss a good many Repubilcans off, and I'm winning over 'Blue R' converts. Ain't liberty grand? With liberty, I don't have to be 'one size fits all' to have a positive impact.

Pincers movement for the win! Herd 'em in from the right, herd 'em in from the left, reunite We the People against the corporatists, and renew this nation.

[radiofriendly]

Thanks for all of the responses.
My main reason for making this video is because I'm hearing a lot of buzz from our activists about this Blue Republican thing. Sure, some of you can provide anecdotal stories about a person you converted, but, I stress, this will not win Ron Paul a Republican primary victory or a straw poll. The numbers are stacked against you.

In response to:

"It's tempting to put people - voters - into groups and treat them as collectives, but isn't it wiser to treat people as individuals? I mean, isn't that what this whole campaign is about? I'd rahter have a million tentacles reaching out to as many different people, than waste our time trying to centrally plan a win.

If you don't like a particular tactic, don't employ it. Focus your energy where you think it is best served. And even if someone else's tactics may be of little value in your estimation, they still provide a value. Each of us need to do what we feel comfortable doing and what excites us."

Again, my concern is that you folks who are promoting this stategy of reaching progressives are leading our new activists/members down a non-effective path. You guys are also acting as a collective and trying to persuade people to do things. I'm simply presenting some facts about how this tactic is dead wrong.
*Take that with a grain of salt! I'm reaching out to progressives all of the time, but even in a liberal community, this is not my primary focus...watch the video to get the context.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YwZqXDH07c

http://www.toplessrobot.com/Thundercats-Original.jpg

[Echoes]

Thanks for all of the responses.
My main reason for making this video is because I'm hearing a lot of buzz from our activists about this Blue Republican thing. Sure, some of you can provide anecdotal stories about a person you converted, but, I stress, this will not win Ron Paul a Republican primary victory or a straw poll. The numbers are stacked against you.

In response to:

"It's tempting to put people - voters - into groups and treat them as collectives, but isn't it wiser to treat people as individuals? I mean, isn't that what this whole campaign is about? I'd rahter have a million tentacles reaching out to as many different people, than waste our time trying to centrally plan a win.

If you don't like a particular tactic, don't employ it. Focus your energy where you think it is best served. And even if someone else's tactics may be of little value in your estimation, they still provide a value. Each of us need to do what we feel comfortable doing and what excites us."

Again, my concern is that you folks who are promoting this stategy of reaching progressives are leading our new activists/members down a non-effective path. You guys are also acting as a collective and trying to persuade people to do things. I'm simply presenting some facts about how this tactic is dead wrong.
*Take that with a grain of salt! I'm reaching out to progressives all of the time, but even in a liberal community, this is not my primary focus...watch the video to get the context.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YwZqXDH07c

http://www.toplessrobot.com/Thundercats-Original.jpg

I absolutely agree with your asessment, liberals/progressives are not the path to victory, if we're gonna win it's gonna come down to winning over social conservatives in Iowa.

[acptulsa]

Thanks for all of the responses.
My main reason for making this video is because I'm hearing a lot of buzz from our activists about this Blue Republican thing. Sure, some of you can provide anecdotal stories about a person you converted, but, I stress, this will not win Ron Paul a Republican primary victory or a straw poll. The numbers are stacked against you.

First, remember that not all states have closed primaries. Second, mine does, and I have caused people to re-register as Republicans. I have. I don't care to name names in a public forum, but I have done this.

But mostly, if you look at the official polls of 'likely Republican primary voters' (i.e. those who are registered Republican whether they need to be in their state or not and have voted in Republican primaries before) you'll find that your own numbers are stacked against you as well right now. Of course, you haven't finished your job any more than we're through with ours. But we both have to face the facts--neither one of us may be able to get enough converts to Paul in time to win the primaries. So, why the hell wouldn't we both continue to do what we're good at, and see if our converts plus your converts equals enough converts?

Let me reiterate--adding me to the numbers trying to do what you're doing will not help because I'm no good at what you're doing. I am, however, if I do say so myself, quite good at doing what I'm doing. So, if your tactic may not be enough, and my tactic may not be enough, why the hell wouldn't we check and see if your tactic and my tactic are enough together? Why?

This is why people are objecting to the negative message and calling it trollish. We just may need both. At least I'm busy trying to win people over to the cause. Are you? Or are you merely trying to tell me and mine that we shouldn't try to win people over to the cause? You gave me your advice. Now I have advice for you--don't worry about my time and how i spend it. Spend your time trying to win over who you're good at winning over. And stop demonizing my potential converts. I'm trying really, really hard not to demonize yours.

Don't discourage. Don't demonize. If you want time to be spent well, spend your own time well--winning people over. Whoever you can, however you can.

Anything else is worse than a waste of time. It's a counterproductive use of your time.

[ninepointfive]

I live in a caucus state wherein a person attends the neighborhood meeting, and states the values of liberty and the Constitution. This is where I am seeking to represent my precinct as a delegate in a statewide assembly. It's right here where we need to have the blue republicans and the independents switch to R. For caucus states, its all about the delegates, baby!

We need the delegates, and it's a numbers game. So this means the activist gets more of a say at assembly and caucus, rather than just one vote on a statewide primary.

[enjerth]

Plenty of people have plenty of time to waste. Call it a hobby then. I'm all for it.

[speciallyblend]

not a waste of time period!!

[Chieppa1]

that this thread got to a 2nd page shows we have a long way to go to become a cohesive force.

[sailingaway]

Why would you want to remove any strings at all from our bow?

And I disagree. The last time independents and Dems thought they had something new in Obama. Now those who care know differently.

[speciallyblend]

In my judgement, I'm anti-authoritarian enough to piss a good many Repubilcans off, and I'm winning over 'Blue R' converts. Ain't liberty grand? With liberty, I don't have to be 'one size fits all' to have a positive impact.

Pincers movement for the win! Herd 'em in from the right, herd 'em in from the left, reunite We the People against the corporatists, and renew this nation.

haha made me think of this when we are trying to convert republicans or hardcore obama fans:) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5N35kQAPv0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5N35kQAPv0

Yeeee haw ,now let us go round up some republicrats,demopublicans and some bohemian indy's:) Crowd goes wild and Ron Paul 2012 Wins!!!

[dannno]

Why is it that people in very conservative areas always say how much of a waste of time it is to go after 'Blue Republicans' and people in very progressive areas always say how much of a waste of time it is to go after neocons?

Projecting much?

[radiofriendly]

Before you dig in too deeply about your position, consider talking to people who have worked on winning campaigns. Rand Paul comes to mind. Ask the folks there how they won. I get it about some of you being like oil and water with conservatives...and focusing on what you are "good at." It's just not something that the vast majority of us need to mess with...and I stand by my assertion that many of us, me included, love to stay in our comfort zones and will fool ourselves into thinking that online activism and sign waves in front of random audiences is effective. Remember, 2%-9% of random people are even likely to vote in a primary. Meanwhile, there is a list of every likely R primary voter in your community waiting around to be targeted...
But, I was busy changing the screens on the computers at Best Buy!

(added later)

*Zero conservatives around? (This is rare) Raise money to help IA and NH...as well as running an educational campaign with progressives...

[dannno]

Before you dig in too deeply about your position, consider talking to people who have worked on winning campaigns. Rand Paul comes to mind. Ask the folks there how they won. I get it about some of you being like oil and water with conservatives...and focusing on what you are "good at." It's just not something that the vast majority of us need to mess with...and I stand by my assertion that many of us, me included, love to stay in our comfort zones and will fool ourselves into thinking that online activism and sign waves in front of random audiences is effective. Remember, 2%-9% of random people are even likely to vote in a primary. Meanwhile, there is a list of every likely R primary voter in your community waiting around to be targeted...
But, I was busy changing the screens on the computers at Best Buy!

Read my post above and please consider that Kentucky is a VERY conservative state.

[Nate]

Why is it that people in very conservative areas always say how much of a waste of time it is to go after 'Blue Republicans' and people in very progressive areas always say how much of a waste of time it is to go after neocons?

Projecting much?

+1

This is just a residual effect of the false left-right Hegelian paradigm that people have been trapped in most of their lives. Neither neo-cons or progressives are "a waste of time". If you're around neo/social-cons then proselytize to them, if you're around liberals/progressives then do the same with them. This campaign needs converts from wherever it can get them. I personally am employing the Blue Republican meme because I live in Chicago & the neo-con constituency is almost non-existent. Most of my friends & acquaintances are of the more liberal/progressive persuasion so it's a better use of MY time to go after them, proselytizing to neo-cons (or even TeaParty types) would be a massive waste of MY time since I'd first have to find them.

I think that the best advice I can give to the "don't go after THOSE PEOPLE" types is this, mind your own damn business & stop telling others what is or is not worth THEIR time!

[dannno]

I can talk to 20 progressives on the street and get several of them considering Ron Paul and possibly considering registering Republican before any conservatives even come into sight. Last time in my precinct about 200 people voted and of that only about 10 or 15 were registered Republican.

How is focusing on conservatives in my area going to win this election when there aren't any?

[Nate]

I can talk to 20 progressives on the street and get several of them considering Ron Paul and possibly considering registering Republican before any conservatives even come into sight. Last time in my precinct about 200 people voted and of that only about 10 or 15 were registered Republican.

How is focusing on conservatives in my area going to win this election when there aren't any?

^this

[scrosnoe]

Grassroots politics ain't sexy.

It is walking blocks and making phone calls and raising money. In a primary it requires knowing the demographics and targeting. Unless you have the manpower to go to every door in every neighborhood.

The biggest hurdle we have is enough energy on the ground to circumvent the number the media is doing on us. When we are about to win, they will admit we are there. Not until. And how do you convince the Republican primary voter that our guy can beat Obama when the MSM doesn't even hardly admit he is in the race? Easy. By having the brightest and the best and the most numbers at every Republican event. By being ambassadors for our candidate.

It has very little to do with anything we are doing on the internet. It is local and face to face and in your very own neighborhood. It is also the groundwork for local politics and future leaders. So make everything you do count for multiple efforts. Put like minded people on the school board and the city council and in the state house while you are at it!

Be a Republican precinct chair and then a county chair and then the state chair and BY ALL MEANS A DELEGATE.

Make friends with the other candidates and their supporters; ask them to make your candidate their second choice.

And it ain't rocket science either.

You all are very smart so figure out a way to beat the heat and hit the pavement/phone banks!

[radiofriendly]

+1

This is just a residual effect of the false left-right Hegelian paradigm that people have been trapped in most of their lives. Neither neo-cons or progressives are "a waste of time"....I think that the best advice I can give to the "don't go after THOSE PEOPLE" types is this, is to mind your own damn business & stop telling others what is or is not worth THEIR time!

The most important thing to learn when you are selling something, and yes, you are selling Ron Paul and a philosophy/political platform, is to admit that you don't know everything and can still learn better techniques. This is a trait of top salespeople. Of course, some efforts should be made to convert progressives but to say, "mind your own damn business" in response to me engaging in debate about this issue is childish. However, my Thundercats references have already outdone you in that department:)

My goal is to reach the newbies. If you've been doing the same kind of activism and will never change no matter what, I get it.
But there are new folks here who want to know what they can do to help Ron Paul do the best he can do in the Republican Primary...It's to those people that I plead...NOoooooooooo!
http://thisainthell.us/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/r3881031385.jpg

[showpan]

The Republican candidates are exposing themselves and will drive more support our way, just keep repeating Romneycare.

Blue Republican on Facebook
2,624
people like this

This just started a couple of weeks ago on FB.
It's growing fast and the Democrats are split just as the Republicans were when Obama was elected. Opportunities should never be wasted simply because Libertarians do not want the support from people they don't care for because of their Party affiliation. This isn't about parties...it's about America and the greater good.

When marketing Ron Paul, I use the advice that was given here and I do not engage my opponents, I simply respond with facts:

Ron Paul would balance the budget by ending the wars and bringing our troops home, ending the FED backdoor and bring our money home, end NAFTA and bring our jobs home, end the Unpatriot Act and return us to the land of the free.

or

Ron Paul would balance the budget by ending the wars and has never voted to take one dime from SS.

or

Nation Building needs to start here and not in third world countries that we have bombed back into the stone ages. A vote for Obama is a vote for a Bush 4th term.

or

There is only one party, with two wings, the corporate party. Send Obama and the neocons packing once and for all. Ron Paul 2012


This strategy is working well and does not alienate anyone except neocons who can never help but to expose themselves. More and more people are starting to question the system and their party since they are now attacking their own.

[Nate]

The most important thing to learn when you are selling something, and yes, you are selling Ron Paul and a philosophy/political platform, is to admit that you don't know everything and can still learn better techniques. This is a trait of top salespeople.

I think you need to follow your own advice.



Of course, some efforts should be made to convert progressives but to say, "mind your own damn business" in response to me engaging in debate about this issue is childish.

No, I was TRYING to explain to you that depending on the ACTIVIST there are different tactics that can be used. Also, that trying to make blanket statements that going after liberals/progressives/democrats is a "waste of time" is just plain bullshit. Stop trying to tell volunteers what to do with their time & efforts, different people are good at delivering the message to different people. if they feel that it is the most effective use of THEIR time then fine. You feel that the most effective use of YOUR time is proselytizing to current Republicans then fine, do that. I'm not on here telling you that it's a "waste of time" because it's none of my business what you do with YOUR time & effort.


My goal is to reach the newbies. If you've been doing the same kind of activism and will never change no matter what, I get it.
But there are new folks here who want to know what they can do to help Ron Paul do the best he can do in the Republican Primary...It's to those people that I plead...NOoooooooooo!

My point is that the activism you are endorsing is not the most effective for many people due to their back round, environment or political beliefs. Many states are open primaries, in those states a Blue Republican vote is JUST AS important as a regular Republican. This is why making a blanket statement like going after Blue Republicans is a "waste of time" is complete nonsense, you lack the necessary knowledge to make such a statement due to the principle of dispersed knowledge. For all you know the Blue Republican strategy might be the one that puts Dr Paul over the top & wins him the nomination. Let people try multiple different strategies & figure out what WORKS FOR THEM, this includes the "newbies". In other words, stop telling others what is the best use of THEIR time because you simply have NO IDEA what is the best use of THEIR time, you lack the necessary knowledge to make such decisions.

[radiofriendly]

@Nate (Thanks for your responses.)

Looks like this is becoming a battle about relativism.
I have urgency for this issue because I believe I might just be correct.
If I'm correct, then you and others are wasting your time--in comparison to what
you could achieve if you did the normal boring things that have never failed at winning
an election.

I find this notion that everyone should just do what "works for them" bizarre and in denial of human nature.
Some people are better at things than others...we learn from them to improve even more. In 2007, I was putting stickers on urinals...now I've learned a few things...I'm still learning...I called some seasoned activists before I posted the video last night..
because even I was having postmodern wishy-washy feelings about being correct!

As to this being "None of my business."
I don't control what you do...but doesn't the nature of a forum lend itself to working things out through a process of debate?

[daveprice]

got thru 1/2 of it, terrible negative title. first thing i seen on site, looking for new commercials,

[dannno]

got thru 1/2 of it, terrible negative title. first thing i seen on site, looking for new commercials,


Here ya go:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?303116-New-Campaign-Ad-Live!



Sorry this was the first thread you clicked on, there are plenty of really good ones out there.

[IndianaPolitico]

Before you start tearing into his opinion, think about it for a second. He brings up a very good point. Even if we pushed the "Blue Republican" thing REALLY hard, it at best would only bring in an extra 2 to 3 percent in a REPUBLICAN primary. I am not saying ignore them completely, but focus mainly on likely republican VOTERS. They are the people that will win the primary. But, maybe you don't really talk well with conservatives, and do better with more liberals. But if you are good at both, focus on the likely republican voters.

[andrewjs18]

we need to convince people from ALL parties to register republican to vote in the primaries if their state has closed primaries. primaries are generally low turn out so ANY additional votes we can get, we'll gladly take them. I'm a registered libertarian that switched to a republican just to vote for Ron. had Ron decided to not run, I would of stayed as a registered libertarian.

[acptulsa]

Focusing on voters that aren't angry may be a waste of time. Not all of the angry ones are Republicans.

Focusing on trying to herd cats is a waste of time, especially us cats that know for a fact we're doing some good doing what we're doing.

Focusing on getting this crowd to buy into the false left/right paradigm bullshit is a complete and utter waste of time and resouces, because we all took the red pill and we know an attempt by our enemies to divide and conquer us when we see one.

[Bruno]

Obama won Iowa due to a large number of very UNLIKELY Democratic and previously unregistered voters.

[acptulsa]

Obama won Iowa due to a large number of very UNLIKELY Democratic and previously unregistered voters.

And nothing makes more strange bedfellowes than a fervent desire for peace in our time.

[Nate]

Looks like this is becoming a battle about relativism.

What the hell does this have to do with relativism? This is about the division of labor. Please don't obfuscate the issue by introducing a philosophical argument that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.


I have urgency for this issue because I believe I might just be correct.
If I'm correct, then you and others are wasting your time--in comparison to what
you could achieve if you did the normal boring things that have never failed at winning
an election.

Again, more on the principle of dispersed knowledge. You have no damn clue what I am doing with my time or how effective I am with said time. I've worked in well over a dozen campaigns & know EXACTLY what to do to win them including the little boring things. I'm a member of my local Republican Party & have signed up over 50 formerly non-Republicans as now eligible Republican voters over the last month. I have the voting list for past Republican voters in my congressional district & exhausted that extremely short list in just over a week. Why? Because I live in CHICAGO & that list is short as hell! YOUR STRATEGY WILL NOT WORK WHERE I LIVE! All politics is local, one's strategy & tactics should be tailored to fit the local political climate for maximum effectiveness.


I find this notion that everyone should just do what "works for them" bizarre and in denial of human nature.

The division of labor is bizarre & in denial of human nature? REALLY?! I find the simplistic, one size fits all approach to your strategy of centralized planning to be bizarre & in denial of human nature.


Some people are better at things than others...we learn from them to improve even more.

This directly contradicts your previous statement.


In 2007, I was putting stickers on urinals...now I've learned a few things...I'm still learning...I called some seasoned activists before I posted the video last night..
because even I was having postmodern wishy-washy feelings about being correct!

This seasoned activist, of 17 campaigns in 4 different parties over 14 years, could have told you in 2007 that putting stickers on urinals was a waste of time & this seasoned activist is telling you that trying to push centralized planning on a base of libertarian leaning grassroots activists is an even bigger waste of time.


As to this being "None of my business."
I don't control what you do...but doesn't the nature of a forum lend itself to working things out through a process of debate?

Stating unequivocally that you are "simply presenting some facts about how this tactic is dead wrong" is not an attempt at debate. Your "facts" are opinions.
Yes, what I do with my time is none of your business, as is what other activists do with their time. Pay me for my time & THEN it becomes your business.

[radiofriendly]

What the hell does this have to do with relativism? This is about the division of labor. Please don't obfuscate the issue by introducing a philosophical argument that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.



Again, more on the principle of dispersed knowledge. You have no damn clue what I am doing with my time or how effective I am with said time. I've worked in well over a dozen campaigns & know EXACTLY what to do to win them including the little boring things. I'm a member of my local Republican Party & have signed up over 50 formerly non-Republicans as now eligible Republican voters over the last month. I have the voting list for past Republican voters in my congressional district & exhausted that extremely short list in just over a week. Why? Because I live in CHICAGO & that list is short as hell! YOUR STRATEGY WILL NOT WORK WHERE I LIVE! All politics is local, one's strategy & tactics should be tailored to fit the local political climate for maximum effectiveness.



The division of labor is bizarre & in denial of human nature? REALLY?! I find the simplistic, one size fits all approach to your strategy of centralized planning to be bizarre & in denial of human nature.



This directly contradicts your previous statement.



This seasoned activist, of 17 campaigns in 4 different parties over 14 years, could have told you in 2007 that putting stickers on urinals was a waste of time & this seasoned activist is telling you that trying to push centralized planning on a base of libertarian leaning grassroots activists is an even bigger waste of time.



Stating unequivocally that you are "simply presenting some facts about how this tactic is dead wrong" is not an attempt at debate. Your "facts" are opinions.
Yes, what I do with my time is none of your business, as is what other activists do with their time. Pay me for my time & THEN it becomes your business.

I stand corrected in my assumptions about you.

"I'm a member of my local Republican Party & have signed up over 50 formerly non-Republicans as now eligible Republican voters over the last month. I have the voting list for past Republican voters in my congressional district & exhausted that extremely short list in just over a week. Why? Because I live in CHICAGO & that list is short as hell! YOUR STRATEGY WILL NOT WORK WHERE I LIVE! All politics is local..."

100% agree!

[speciallyblend]

really? if it was a waste of time why am i now a registered republican and supporting Ron Paul. Anyone saying recruiting blue republicans is a waste of time are useless!! ello anyone home i use to be a conservative democrat!!

[Nate]

I stand corrected in my assumptions about you.

"I'm a member of my local Republican Party & have signed up over 50 formerly non-Republicans as now eligible Republican voters over the last month. I have the voting list for past Republican voters in my congressional district & exhausted that extremely short list in just over a week. Why? Because I live in CHICAGO & that list is short as hell! YOUR STRATEGY WILL NOT WORK WHERE I LIVE! All politics is local..."

100% agree!

Thank you. I just wanted to get you to understand that the Blue Republican strategy is one more arrow in the Ron Paul activist's quiver. Especially for those of us who live in areas dominated by liberal/progressive politics & worldviews. I don't advocate that it be the only or even the main strategy for most liberty activists, & if you live in an area dominated by conservative politics I'd recommend it not even be part of your quiver or if it is it should be a very minor one. It has been however my main strategy almost by default since long before the Blue Republican phrase was coined due to the local political climate of my area. In fact I was trying to push Paul to liberals in 2007 but they were too caught up in the Obama personality cult at the time to listen. They're listening now though. There are literally 9 liberals for every 1 conservative in my locality. The Green Party is just as large & politically influential as the Republican Party in my congressional district, which is the Illinois 5th, Rahm & Blagojevich's former district.

[JayDee]

I think that your probably right because getting any of getting blue republicans to the caucus' is just going to be slim to nonexistent..

However I think we have just about as good of a chance to turn them into real Ron Paul Republicans as we do hardcore Neo-Cons. A lot of leftists do actually like Ron Paul and feel Obama has let them down on a great deal of issues War, Gitmo, Drug War, Gay Rights etc.. However a scant few of some of Paul's issues.. where favorable to other republicans will make most leftists uncomfortable as well, such as abortion. (it makes me uncomfortable but.. I can see where he is coming from being a Dr.)

ANNN SO

Be choosy with this.. If in your talking to people if they are receptive to Ron Paul, you may continue talking to them.. however if they are going to vote for Obama no matter what, don't waste your time on them.. you'll never see them come through where it matters.

[speciallyblend]

Thank you. I just wanted to get you to understand that the Blue Republican strategy is one more arrow in the Ron Paul activist's quiver. Especially for those of us who live in areas dominated by liberal/progressive politics & worldviews. I don't advocate that it be the only or even the main strategy for most liberty activists, & if you live in an area dominated by conservative politics I'd recommend it not even be part of your quiver or if it is it should be a very minor one. It has been however my main strategy almost by default since long before the Blue Republican phrase was coined due to the local political climate of my area. In fact I was trying to push Paul to liberals in 2007 but they were too caught up in the Obama personality cult at the time to listen. They're listening now though. There are literally 9 liberals for every 1 conservative in my locality. The Green Party is just as large & politically influential as the Republican Party in my congressional district, which is the Illinois 5th, Rahm & Blagojevich's former district.


exactly , We got a 49.6% vote for a Ron Paul Republican in our county using the blue republican idea. When gop est/neo-con republicans usually get 11%;) Ron Paul 2012

[progressiveforpaul]

I do think a Huckabee or Palin endorsement might help but how likely is that?

I absolutely agree with your asessment, liberals/progressives are not the path to victory, if we're gonna win it's gonna come down to winning over social conservatives in Iowa.

[progressiveforpaul]

Fascinating argument. I guess we will know after SC what strategy is working and what is not. I'm an amateur so I'll not pretend to be an authority but it seems to me that Ron Paul will have to compete against a cultural conservative and a neo-con/establishment candidate. I think if the party sees him finishing 2nd or better in 2 of the 3 first states, there will be an incredible surge to demonize him in the slickest commercials ever run in a primary. Gigantic wads of money will get pushed in the pocket of the establishment candidate and the cultural conservative will be sweet talked and ne're a discouraging word will be said against her in any situation or ad. Given this scenario, Ron Paul will need every Republican he can get but I doubt very seriously that a conventional strategy will work. There has to be a significant wave of progressives to come on board. I do mean progressives because the moderate Dems and independents are less likely than progressives to embrace Paul.
On the other hand the Blue Republican Facebook page is I suspect a libertarian created page and mostly liked by life time libertarians or supporters of Paul who were converted during the last election. The strategy of trying to convert progressives to libertarians so they will vote for Ron Paul will not work. Imagine if Romney were president now and Kucinich supporters were telling libertarians come vote for our candidate and he will end the war and restore civil liberties. There's not enough bait on the hook. However, if Kucinich said that he would devote 50% of the money saved on drawing down the empire to debt reduction so that we have a net reduction in the overall size of government, libertarians would begin to at least listen. Let's then say that Kucinich offered a pledge to reduce taxes for 98 percent of the population beyond the current Bush rates. The listening then starts turning to movement. Then Kucinich says I promise that all revenue gained from increasing taxes on the top 2% will go exclusively to debt reduction. Now we have a candidate who wants to end the empire building and maintenance, restore civil liberties, lower taxes, reduce the size of government and significantly pay down our national debt. Now the Libertarian is faced with this opportunity to support a candidate who is endorsing a great deal more of the libertarian agenda than the incumbent and certain party nominee. Looking down the primary ballot she sees no competitive races involving a libertarian Republican... what is she going to do?
The man himself has got to clarify just how sweet the pot is if he is going to get the extra numbers he needs to win a nomination which will be fought in a way that makes Rove look like a dove. If you really want to know how to talk to a progressive about switching parties here's how: http://progressivesforronpaul.blogspot.com/

[sailingaway]

Fascinating argument. I guess we will know after SC what strategy is working and what is not. I'm an amateur so I'll not pretend to be an authority but it seems to me that Ron Paul will have to compete against a cultural conservative and a neo-con/establishment candidate. I think if the party sees him finishing 2nd or better in 2 of the 3 first states, there will be an incredible surge to demonize him in the slickest commercials ever run in a primary. Gigantic wads of money will get pushed in the pocket of the establishment candidate and the cultural conservative will be sweet talked and ne're a discouraging word will be said against her in any situation or ad. Given this scenario, Ron Paul will need every Republican he can get but I doubt very seriously that a conventional strategy will work. There has to be a significant wave of progressives to come on board. I do mean progressives because the moderate Dems and independents are less likely than progressives to embrace Paul.
On the other hand the Blue Republican Facebook page is I suspect a libertarian created page and mostly liked by life time libertarians or supporters of Paul who were converted during the last election. The strategy of trying to convert progressives to libertarians so they will vote for Ron Paul will not work. Imagine if Romney were president now and Kucinich supporters were telling libertarians come vote for our candidate and he will end the war and restore civil liberties. There's not enough bait on the hook. However, if Kucinich said that he would devote 50% of the money saved on drawing down the empire to debt reduction so that we have a net reduction in the overall size of government, libertarians would begin to at least listen. Let's then say that Kucinich offered a pledge to reduce taxes for 98 percent of the population beyond the current Bush rates. The listening then starts turning to movement. Then Kucinich says I promise that all revenue gained from increasing taxes on the top 2% will go exclusively to debt reduction. Now we have a candidate who wants to end the empire building and maintenance, restore civil liberties, lower taxes, reduce the size of government and significantly pay down our national debt. Now the Libertarian is faced with this opportunity to support a candidate who is endorsing a great deal more of the libertarian agenda than the incumbent and certain party nominee. Looking down the primary ballot she sees no competitive races involving a libertarian Republican... what is she going to do?
The man himself has got to clarify just how sweet the pot is if he is going to get the extra numbers he needs to win a nomination which will be fought in a way that makes Rove look like a dove. If you really want to know how to talk to a progressive about switching parties here's how: http://progressivesforronpaul.blogspot.com/

Have you seen this interview? http://ronpaulrally.org/2011/07/ron-paul-we-dont-have-to-cut-medicare-or-social-security-to-get-our-house-in-order/

[progressiveforpaul]

Excellent interview! Thanks.

Have you seen this interview? http://ronpaulrally.org/2011/07/ron-paul-we-dont-have-to-cut-medicare-or-social-security-to-get-our-house-in-order/

[KurtBoyer25L]

I do mean progressives because the moderate Dems and independents are less likely than progressives to embrace Paul.

On the other hand the Blue Republican Facebook page is I suspect a libertarian created page and mostly liked by life time libertarians or supporters of Paul who were converted during the last election. The strategy of trying to convert progressives to libertarians so they will vote for Ron Paul will not work. Imagine if Romney were president now and Kucinich supporters were telling libertarians come vote for our candidate and he will end the war and restore civil liberties. There's not enough bait on the hook. However, if Kucinich said that he would devote 50% of the money saved on drawing down the empire to debt reduction so that we have a net reduction in the overall size of government, libertarians would begin to at least listen. Let's then say that Kucinich offered a pledge to reduce taxes for 98 percent of the population beyond the current Bush rates. The listening then starts turning to movement. Then Kucinich says I promise that all revenue gained from increasing taxes on the top 2% will go exclusively to debt reduction. Now we have a candidate who wants to end the empire building and maintenance, restore civil liberties, lower taxes, reduce the size of government and significantly pay down our national debt. Now the Libertarian is faced with this opportunity to support a candidate who is endorsing a great deal more of the libertarian agenda than the incumbent and certain party nominee. Looking down the primary ballot she sees no competitive races involving a libertarian Republican... what is she going to do?

Hey what's up buddy! First of all let me thank you for sticking around and staying the fight. It takes a lot of courage to keep supporting a candidacy for President under the circumstances you have. Bravo.

I do however disagree with several of your points --

Of course true liberals & not centrist hypocrites are more likely to vote Paul. Makes sense. But, Ron does get some sugar from independents in the voting booth election after election. Many "independents" are previously apathetic voters, that's Ron's specialty.

I don't personally care who started Blue Republicans, it's a great idea and a mega-valuable asset to the campaign. As far as I'm concerned, your blog, my upcoming web stuff, fb stuff for Blue Repubs...we can all work in tandem to make this happen. BR's facebook creator hangs out here so you might ask him if he's a hardcore intolerant libertarian, but I think he at least has a lot of sympathy for (true) liberal views or he'd never spend so much time engaging with so many of them.

I know what you mean about disguises, like the one guy's blog "Classical Liberal" with all the links to Cato and Reason.

I think you are mistaken that a lot of libertarians wouldn't vote for Kucinich. The issue of war is so large because it's a double or tripled-edged sword. I'm a libertarian & I see Kucinich as a true classical liberal. He would rather spend small amounts of government $ at home helping the poor than massive $ overseas killing people. That would be preferable to any libertarian who votes pragmatically & uses common sense. Many won't allow themselves to vote for any liberal democrat out of general principle. But I'm not sure it's the majority of us.

The other thing that struck me is that the hypothetical Kucinich plan you suggested is the identical Paul plan proposed in his 2012 campaign! Bring home the troops, half of the saved money shores up programs for the elderly & the unable, half of it pays down the debt. So you see Kucinich & Paul have always been proposing the same basic solution. Let's put it this way -- put Paul the classical conservative and Kucinich the classical liberal in office for 10 years as co-Presidents. The first five years would go swimmingly! Wars ended, wasteful spending stopped, entitlements shored up, drugs decriminalized, currency crisis over, economic recovery. It is only in the 2nd half of the 10 year 'term' where disagreements would flare up, over funding social programs at home. Paul would say let the volunteers help people & we'll give them grants & advantages. Kucinich might say he wants 700B a year for nationalized health care. So, yes those would be issues. BUT if the five-year (or four year) plans are by and large alike, then...*gulp* electing Paul is the same as electing Kucinich! Either one would be busy fighting off generals & corporate lawyers and slugging it out w/ the Fed on their way out for at least three years without getting to health care or food stamps as major agenda issues. And BTW, Ron has criticized cutting food stamps.

Again, great to have you around & will be in touch soon.

[progressiveforpaul]

There is a way to test this. Do a random survey of registered Republicans in the first 3 states ask them these questions:
If the primary (caucus) were held today who would you vote for? (list of all candidates)
Which of the following candidates would you be most likely to vote for? (list Romney, Bachmann and Paul)
Do a survey of registered Democrats and ask them which of the current Republicans most closely reflects your political views and which of the candidates would pose the biggest threat to the Obama campaign if nominated.

[radiofriendly]

There is a way to test this. Do a random survey of registered Republicans in the first 3 states ask them these questions:
If the primary (caucus) were held today who would you vote for? (list of all candidates)
Which of the following candidates would you be most likely to vote for? (list Romney, Bachmann and Paul)
Do a survey of registered Democrats and ask them which of the current Republicans most closely reflects your political views and which of the candidates would pose the biggest threat to the Obama campaign if nominated.

First, thanks for your thoughtful responses. *Must take into account if one is likely to vote in a Republican primary (or open). Not easy to do---only thing to test for is if they have voted in primaries in the past. I'm concerned about the motivation factor. Sure there are folks here that were converted. I just want to see our activists focusing on the most fruitful avenues. Your Kuccinich example was fascinating.

[LatinsforPaul]

Blue Republicans are growing and here to stay...

http://www.facebook.com/bluerepublican?sk=wall

http://republican4aday.com/


We are Democrats, Independents, Libertarians, and others who will support pro-peace candidates Ron Paul and Gary Johnson in our state's primary or caucus.

"Blue Republicans": an Idea Whose Time Has Come (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robin-koerner/blue-republicans-an-idea-_b_897405.html)

In fact pretty soon "Blue Republican" is going to be synonymous with Ron Paul. :D

[erowe1]

First, thanks for your thoughtful responses. *Must take into account if one is likely to vote in a Republican primary (or open). Not easy to do---only thing to test for is if they have voted in primaries in the past. I'm concerned about the motivation factor. Sure there are folks here that were converted. I just want to see our activists focusing on the most fruitful avenues. Your Kuccinich example was fascinating.

That's true.

But there are also states and congressional districts out there where Democrats significantly outnumber Republicans. And they don't have a contested Dem primary to worry about. Consider a district where Ds outnumber Rs 4:1. If just 5% of the Ds crossover there, they would make up 20% of the R primary vote. In some cases, simply winning districts like that will bring RP automatic RNC delegates.

He ought to win those districts. We need him to win them. We have people on the left willing to help him win them. I don't see any reason to turn away free help.

And this isn't some kind of pie-in-the sky hope for all the previous rules of politics suddenly to be broken. There are plenty of examples of crossover votes being a significant factor in primaries. 2012 is another year that they should be, given that there's no D contest, and the R's have a single serious candidate that crossover Ds would support.

[speciallyblend]

Blue Republicans are growing and here to stay...

http://www.facebook.com/bluerepublican?sk=wall

http://republican4aday.com/



"Blue Republicans": an Idea Whose Time Has Come (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robin-koerner/blue-republicans-an-idea-_b_897405.html)

In fact pretty soon "Blue Republican" is going to be synonymous with Ron Paul. :D


you betcha, i was a life-long democrat with libertarian leanings! I joined the gop back in 2006!! Blue Republicans are gonna be a one of the keys to winning the gop primary!

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Perhaps I am confused.

I thought the focus of Blue Republicans was to convince Anti-war average joe Democrats to support Ron because he is the only choice for peace.

OP states that Progressives will not win it for Paul. If he is right, then yes, it will fail.

But the average liberal is not Progressive, they just see themselves as socially liberal in most cases.

[speciallyblend]

Perhaps I am confused.

I thought the focus of Blue Republicans was to convince Anti-war average joe Democrats to support Ron because he is the only choice for peace.

OP states that Progressives will not win it for Paul. If he is right, then yes, it will fail.

But the average liberal is not Progressive, they just see themselves as socially liberal in most cases.


I would say you are correct. I also remind folks in Colorado that most hippies(are strongly independent not gov liberals wanting to feed of the gov tit).

[Justinjj1]

I remember seeing a poll on here a while back that showed that a good chunk of the posters on this board (I believe a majority) were not Republican voters before Ron Paul '08.

[jmdrake]

Please watch and respond:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YwZqXDH07c

This was my video response to this article:
http://www.dailypaul.com/170574/only-blue-republicans-grassroots-can-save-the-ron-paul-campaign

Update, July 15th:
Not saying that the concept of Blue Republicans is a waste of time, but FOCUSING on them.
*I updated the title of this thread with the word, "mostly."

Take what I'm saying here with a grain of salt.:cool:

-rep for dissing the Thundercats. (JUST KIDDING)

On a serious note we have to sow beside all waters. If your talking "door to door" or "phone banking", sure reach likely republican voters. If your talking about your own circle? Reach everybody. I've been talking to my neighbor a lot who voted for McCain. We agree on a lot. And I think I'm getting him to see how our foreign policy under Bush was stupid. But guess who he supports? Either Bachmann or Herman Cain! He still laughs at the idea of me supporting Ron Paul. Now it's cause Ron is "just too old". :rolleyes: Contrast that with my mom who voted for Obama. (80+ y/o black woman and demographically the least likely person to vote in a republican primary). Recently I told her "Mom, you've just got to consider voting for Ron Paul. I'm not kidding around. Our country is going to hell in a hand-basket". Her response? Son I think you're right. Obama's just giving us more wars anyway. It's no different than under Bush! I know that's just anecdotal evidence, but I'm sure I'm not the only person with such an anecdote.

And for the record, I have been getting some Obama supporters to seriously consider voting in the GOP primary since a vote for Obama is both literally and figuratively a wasted vote. (It was always a wasted vote, but don't tell them that). But I would not put that on a blog. The last thing we want is for Bachmann bloggers to pick up on this and say "Ron Paul voters are just a bunch of libs trying to help Obama". And a few Obama supporters I've approached are smart enough to realize that Ron Paul actually could win and so they won't vote for him for that specific reason. ;)

But here's what we really need to do IMO. Find the GOP voters that disagree with the wars. GOP voters are now nearly split 50/50 on Afghanistan. Those who still support these wars are a lost cause IMO.

[erowe1]

But I would not put that on a blog. The last thing we want is for Bachmann bloggers to pick up on this and say "Ron Paul voters are just a bunch of libs trying to help Obama".

+1

While I'm glad people are doing this, those who do need to understand that it's on them to do it independently. They shouldn't try to unite the rest of the grassroots behind it, and especially not the official campaign. That said, if they take that initiative, there are things they could do, and activists on the other side of the aisle they could make alliances with that could make them a big factor.

[progressiveforpaul]

Excellent point about Bachmann but wouldn't an early exit of Romney et al with Paul vs. Bachmann the rest of the way be interesting.

-rep for dissing the Thundercats. (JUST KIDDING)

On a serious note we have to sow beside all waters. If your talking "door to door" or "phone banking", sure reach likely republican voters. If your talking about your own circle? Reach everybody. I've been talking to my neighbor a lot who voted for McCain. We agree on a lot. And I think I'm getting him to see how our foreign policy under Bush was stupid. But guess who he supports? Either Bachmann or Herman Cain! He still laughs at the idea of me supporting Ron Paul. Now it's cause Ron is "just too old". :rolleyes: Contrast that with my mom who voted for Obama. (80+ y/o black woman and demographically the least likely person to vote in a republican primary). Recently I told her "Mom, you've just got to consider voting for Ron Paul. I'm not kidding around. Our country is going to hell in a hand-basket". Her response? Son I think you're right. Obama's just giving us more wars anyway. It's no different than under Bush! I know that's just anecdotal evidence, but I'm sure I'm not the only person with such an anecdote.

And for the record, I have been getting some Obama supporters to seriously consider voting in the GOP primary since a vote for Obama is both literally and figuratively a wasted vote. (It was always a wasted vote, but don't tell them that). But I would not put that on a blog. The last thing we want is for Bachmann bloggers to pick up on this and say "Ron Paul voters are just a bunch of libs trying to help Obama". And a few Obama supporters I've approached are smart enough to realize that Ron Paul actually could win and so they won't vote for him for that specific reason. ;)

But here's what we really need to do IMO. Find the GOP voters that disagree with the wars. GOP voters are now nearly split 50/50 on Afghanistan. Those who still support these wars are a lost cause IMO.

[radiofriendly]

-rep for dissing the Thundercats. (JUST KIDDING)

On a serious note we have to sow beside all waters. If your talking "door to door" or "phone banking", sure reach likely republican voters. If your talking about your own circle? Reach everybody. I've been talking to my neighbor a lot who voted for McCain. We agree on a lot. And I think I'm getting him to see how our foreign policy under Bush was stupid. But guess who he supports? Either Bachmann or Herman Cain! He still laughs at the idea of me supporting Ron Paul. Now it's cause Ron is "just too old". :rolleyes: Contrast that with my mom who voted for Obama. (80+ y/o black woman and demographically the least likely person to vote in a republican primary). Recently I told her "Mom, you've just got to consider voting for Ron Paul. I'm not kidding around. Our country is going to hell in a hand-basket". Her response? Son I think you're right. Obama's just giving us more wars anyway. It's no different than under Bush! I know that's just anecdotal evidence, but I'm sure I'm not the only person with such an anecdote.

And for the record, I have been getting some Obama supporters to seriously consider voting in the GOP primary since a vote for Obama is both literally and figuratively a wasted vote. (It was always a wasted vote, but don't tell them that). But I would not put that on a blog. The last thing we want is for Bachmann bloggers to pick up on this and say "Ron Paul voters are just a bunch of libs trying to help Obama". And a few Obama supporters I've approached are smart enough to realize that Ron Paul actually could win and so they won't vote for him for that specific reason. ;)

But here's what we really need to do IMO. Find the GOP voters that disagree with the wars. GOP voters are now nearly split 50/50 on Afghanistan. Those who still support these wars are a lost cause IMO.

If your talking "door to door" or "phone banking", sure reach likely republican voters. If your talking about your own circle? Reach everybody *** This is great advice!