Seriously, is there anything that can be done to take back the financial system ?

[cbc58]

I'm reading daily about how much greed, corruption and theft has been achieved by the banksters and how they are tightening the noose on the system to take assets and crush the middle class.

A simple question: can anything be done to stop them and recoup thier ill gotten gians? Is there anyway to take our country and financial system back and make them lose... and not us?

Seriously - if there was a way to bring everyone together (everyone - not just RP supporters) and communicate what needs to be done... what would it be that is realistic and achievable?

[YumYum]

I'm reading daily about how much greed, corruption and theft has been achieved by the banksters and how they are tightening the noose on the system to take assets and crush the middle class.

A simple question: can anything be done to stop them and recoup thier ill gotten gians? Is there anyway to take our country and financial system back and make them lose... and not us?

Seriously - if there was a way to bring everyone together (everyone - not just RP supporters) and communicate what needs to be done... what would it be that is realistic and achievable?

I predicted this a year and a half ago on this forum and was laughed at. Not to rub it in, but why the concern now? Why wasn't there concern then? We as Americans always wait until it is too late. That is our very nature. Then, when reality sets in, we go ape shit nuts. No, I do not believe anything at this point will unite us to stand up to the bankers because they have been planning this for years, while we were sitting on the couch, scratching our balls, and watching American Idol.

[cbc58]

Anyone have any ideas. We all predicted this but now that it's here (or nearly here), what can be done in a realistic fashion if the people unite.

[ClayTrainor]

A simple question: can anything be done to stop them and recoup thier ill gotten gians? Is there anyway to take our country and financial system back and make them lose... and not us?

The financial system, as it exists today, is pretty much the Titanic AFTER it already hit the ice berg. It's gonna sink no matter what happens now.



Seriously - if there was a way to bring everyone together (everyone - not just RP supporters) and communicate what needs to be done... what would it be that is realistic and achievable?

tough question, I doubt there is a good answer that we can just get everyone to go along with. Unfortunately, it's likely that we have to educate people as individuals with their own individual ideas and perspectives and this will require serious time and effort on our part. There is no easy and fast solution to such a complex and vast problem, unfortunately.

I'm personally just starting with my friends, my neighbours and people I care about within my own life. I am simply engaging them in honest conversations, and asking them tough questions with obvious, but uncomfortable answers.

I feel this should be the primary goal of every liberty activist. We need to simply expose the gun that is the state. We don't even need to assert it, we can get them to realize it for themselves by merely asking them the right questions. Once people begin to actually see the state a violent organization they become less comfortable advocating for it and associating with it, in my experience.

The following speech by Stef Molyneux provides excellent insight in how to best approach this topic in conversation. Since adopting this method, I have noticed a significant increase of people I know taking the ideas of Liberty very seriously and personally.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKOTqRb5nvg

[YumYum]

Anyone have any ideas. We all predicted this but now that it's here (or nearly here), what can be done in a realistic fashion if the people unite.

This united the French people. Why don't we start "The Guillotine Party"? We don't have to ever threaten anyone, nor ever utter or speak a word of violence. This photo as a logo would scare the shit out of the sociopaths.

http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/guillotine.jpg

[Agorism]

Get rid of fractional reserve banking. Make 1:1 reserve requirements.

[dannno]

I predicted this a year and a half ago on this forum and was laughed at. Not to rub it in, but why the concern now? Why wasn't there concern then? We as Americans always wait until it is too late. That is our very nature. Then, when reality sets in, we go ape shit nuts. No, I do not believe anything at this point will unite us to stand up to the bankers because they have been planning this for years, while we were sitting on the couch, scratching our balls, and watching American Idol.

I doubt you were laughed at on this forum for saying that the bankers were going to screw us all over.

[Seraphim]

BUY GOLD, BUY SILVER.

Precious metals represent the antithesis to legal tender fiat.

Seriously folks - OCCUM'S RAZOR.

If you want to tighten the noose on the bankers instead of the other way around, DON'T PLAY THEIR GAMES.

BUY GOLD. BUY SILVER.

[Agorism]

And add competing currencies too.

[YumYum]

I doubt you were laughed at on this forum for saying that the bankers were going to screw us all over.

Actually, I was. I was also laughed at because I predicted that we would go into a severe deflationary period and that gold would plummet. Of course, gold continued to go up, but we may see what I predicted happen with the severe deflation/depression that we are now going into. I predicted that the bankers would contract credit, giving out zero loans, and everything would collapse. When everyone is unemployed and has no money, the will sell their assets (including gold) a penny on the dollar and the bankers will scoop it all up for nothing. It has all happened before; time and again, so, why is this time any different. This is all in Griffin's book, so, actually he predicted it.

I have been on this forum since September of 2009 and have read thousands of posts about financial collapse, NWO, anarchy, FEMA camps, WW3, and the list goes on. I mean, we are talking about the end of mankind that has been predicted here, so, my little prediction is really nothing in comparison. So, now, at the last minute we are going to try and unite a bunch of stupid, insane Americans? Why don't we explore ways where we can help each other; yes, us the informed and more intelligent? Why can't we focus on what we can do to help each other not die in the calamity that is soon to be here? At this point, I could care less about the dummies and trying to unite crazy people who enjoy being ignorant. We are just a few specks in a barrel of pepper.

[isrow]

BUY GOLD, BUY SILVER.

Precious metals represent the antithesis to legal tender fiat.

Seriously folks - OCCUM'S RAZOR.

If you want to tighten the noose on the bankers instead of the other way around, DON'T PLAY THEIR GAMES.

BUY GOLD. BUY SILVER.

+a million

[headhawg7]

I predicted this a year and a half ago on this forum and was laughed at. Not to rub it in, but why the concern now? Why wasn't there concern then? We as Americans always wait until it is too late. That is our very nature. Then, when reality sets in, we go ape shit nuts. No, I do not believe anything at this point will unite us to stand up to the bankers because they have been planning this for years, while we were sitting on the couch, scratching our balls, and watching American Idol.

I agree. The corporate/banking/special interests through the media have utterly and completely divided the american people into R vs D, left vs right and blue vs red.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Get rid of, or atleast strip most of the power from the FED

Allow competing currencies.

Deregulation and abolish the FDIC.

[QueenB4Liberty]

And add competing currencies too.

Would be a good start.

[IDefendThePlatform]

And add competing currencies too.

+1

Email your US Representative and tell them to support Dr. P's Free Competition In Currency Act:
http://www.facebook.com/CompetitionInCurrency
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-a-budget/170699-competing-currencies-a-defense-against-profligate-government-spending

[stuntman stoll]

why do some of you feel the need to attack a certain group of people as if they are some kind of evil subhuman species? Banking is a noble profession. Bankers bring together people or businesses who have extra money with those who need money and facilitate the transactions, making everyone better off (as long as it's voluntary). The main problems (such as government deposit insurance, fractional reserves, fiat, fed reserve, etc.) were not implemented by anyone living today. The problems are ingrained in the system. Just like there are long standing bad regulations in many fields. And how can you blame them for trying to get in bed with government? It would be dumb for any big business to NOT influence an all powerful government.
Sure, the financial system will eventually collapse, but place the blame where it belongs - with the dumb electorate who wants less freedom, more handouts, bigger empire, etc.

[ProIndividual]

counter-economics...but you didn't hear that from me, you heard it from Konkin III.

[cbc58]

why do some of you feel the need to attack a certain group of people as if they are some kind of evil subhuman species? Banking is a noble profession. Bankers bring together people or businesses who have extra money with those who need money and facilitate the transactions, making everyone better off (as long as it's voluntary). The main problems (such as government deposit insurance, fractional reserves, fiat, fed reserve, etc.) were not implemented by anyone living today. The problems are ingrained in the system. Just like there are long standing bad regulations in many fields. And how can you blame them for trying to get in bed with government? It would be dumb for any big business to NOT influence an all powerful government.
Sure, the financial system will eventually collapse, but place the blame where it belongs - with the dumb electorate who wants less freedom, more handouts, bigger empire, etc.

Some of this has merit - some of it doesn't, otherwise people beleive what they are told to beleive. That's the problem we face in America today and people are slowly waking up to the fact that what they were sold (freedom, democracy, american dream) is not going to be delivered. Rather than say "i told you so" ... I am trying to learn if there is anything that can be done about it and take back what was stolen by the banksters and politicians through some form of citizen movement that everyone can wrap their heads around.

I think we can get a movement going... but just what would the mission and goal be? I'm not talking about sound money or getting RP elected... but something simple and effective that really unites the citizenry at all levels. Perhaps something to be put on the next election ballot... something that educates and convinces people that going into more debt is not the answer and the country has to take it's medicine, crash and then come back stronger.

[romacox]

Anyone have any ideas. We all predicted this but now that it's here (or nearly here), what can be done in a realistic fashion if the people unite.

Yes, and Ron Paul has said it many times over the years. "End The Fed."


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-466210540567002553&hl=en

Our Founding Fathers referred to what we now call the Federal Reserve as the Central Bank.

In ancient times most lived off their land producing food while others produced goods and services. They had no need for money because they bartered between each other (chickens, cows, ext)

But it made for a unreliable labor force because most people preferred to work for themselves, and had little need to work for others on a permanent basis. The British and Dutch, in need of a labor force on their plantations located in various Colonies, concocted a brilliant plan. Folks, they decided to tax those “free roamers” for their land. But the catch was this: they could not pay for it with bartering (things like cows and chickens) they must pay their taxes by money that only the British and Dutch central banks could issue (Much like the Federal Reserve issues today).

The plan worked brilliantly. People who would not be loyal to the plantation owners must now work for them to obtain this solely central bank issued money just to keep their own land. Andrew Jackson was so against the Central Banks that he referred to them as a “den of thieves” (but more on this below). They openly spoke about their plan in the news papers: http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=THD18840522.2.31
(http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=THD18840522.2.31)
Brief History Of The Federal Reserve:

The story of central banking goes back at least to the seventeenth century, to the founding of the first institution recognized as a central bank, the Swedish Riksbank. Established in 1668 as a joint stock bank, it was chartered to lend the government funds and to act as a clearing house for commerce. A few decades later (1694), the most famous central bank of the era, the Bank of England,

While these early central banks helped fund the government’s debt, they were also private entities that engaged in banking activities. Because they held the deposits of other banks, they came to serve as banks for bankers, facilitating transactions between banks or providing other banking services. They became the repository for most banks in the banking system because of their large reserves and extensive networks of correspondent banks.

The U.S. experience was most interesting. It had two central banks in the early nineteenth century, the Bank of the United States (1791–1811) and a second Bank of the United States (1816–1836). Both were set up on the model of the Bank of England, but unlike the British, Americans bore a deep-seated distrust of any concentration of financial power in general, and of central banks in particular, so that in each case, the charters were not renewed.

Andrew Jackson, who became president in 1828, was determined to end the power of the central bankers over the United States. He made the following statements:

“It is not our own citizens only who are to receive the bounty of our government. More than eight millions of the stock of this bank are held by foreigners… is there no danger to our liberty and independence in a bank that in its nature has so little to bind it to our country? … Controlling our currency, receiving our public moneys, and holding thousands of our citizens in dependence… would be more formidable and dangerous than a military power of the enemy.”

“You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to root you out, and by the grace of the Eternal God, will root you out.”

And he did root the out in 1836. But they returned under Woodrow Wilson in what is now called The Federal Reserve.

In 1835, President Jackson completely paid off the U.S. national debt. He is the only U.S. president that has ever been able to accomplish this.

Richard Lawrence attempted to shoot Andrew Jackson, but he survived. It is alleged that Lawrence said that “wealthy people in Europe” had put him up to it.

James A. Garfield became president in 1881, and he was a staunch opponent of the banking powers. In 1881 he said the following….

“Whoever controls the volume of money in our country is absolute master of all industry and commerce…and when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate.”

President Garfield was shot about two weeks later by Charles J. Guiteau on July 2nd, 1881. He died from medical complications on September 19th, 1881.
In 1914 the Federal Reserve (New Name For Central Bank…if people don’t like it, just change the name) opened for business again under Woodrow Wilson. Note: even though it has the word “Federal” in it’s name, it is not part of the Federal Government…it is privately owned by International Bank Cartels.
One of the key players in the creation of the Federal Reserve was Mayer Armshel Rothschild. He made the following statement:

“Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it’s laws”

The Federal Reserve is a staunch supporter of Keynesian Economics which basically believes that “debt is money”.


The more power they get the more they want, and they don’t mind putting it in writing:

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2007/12/boughton.htm

http://www.wto.org/english/news_e/sppl_e/sppl12_e.htm

(http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2007/12/boughton.htm)

Source of article: http://educatorssite.com/?p=558 (http://educatorssite.com/?p=558)

[DamianTV]

And add competing currencies too.

this ^

[acptulsa]

I don't know just what it will take to awaken the populace and unite them. I wish I did. But this is no small part of the solution, would do much to take the wind out of their sales, and since more inflation is guaranteed it also has the advantage of causing you no harm if our efforts to get people off their asses don't work:


BUY GOLD, BUY SILVER.

Precious metals represent the antithesis to legal tender fiat.

Seriously folks - OCCUM'S RAZOR.

If you want to tighten the noose on the bankers instead of the other way around, DON'T PLAY THEIR GAMES.

BUY GOLD. BUY SILVER.

Other than this, the only interesting thing I can think of is massive class action suits against all bailout recipients. I don't know what effect exactly it would have if we filed lawsuits on behalf of ever American taxpayer against every corporation who got this infusion. But I do know it would get some serious attention--and any judge would have to think long and hard before throwing a suit out of court that names every American as plaintiff. We'd have to moneybomb to do it, but it sure could be fun.

The mere fact that they were given the money and didn't put it back in the economy as the politicians said they would could give us solid grounds for the suit on the accusation of fraud.

[Bern]

Seraphim got it right. Ending the Fed, Competing Currencies, etc. are political goals and worth pursuing, but on a personal level, what you can do today is buy gold and silver.

You can store your wealth in dollars at the bank which gives them life, or you can withraw your capital and store it in PMs. When enough people are doing this, it's going to force the political issues.

[stuntman stoll]

I am trying to learn if there is anything that can be done about it and take back what was stolen by the banksters and politicians through some form of citizen movement that everyone can wrap their heads around.

Who are these "banksters" that you speak of and what have they stolen? Yes I know that a few banks get to take loans directly from the federal reserve, but hell, I would take out loans at .5% interest too if I could. And yes, I would take out subsidized insurance for my business if I needed to to compete with my competitors, just as banks do with fdic. Once again, place the blame where it belongs - with the dumb electorate and corrupt political system.

[acptulsa]

Who are these "banksters" that you speak of and what have they stolen? Yes I know that a few banks get to take loans directly from the federal reserve, but hell, I would take out loans at .5% interest too if I could. And yes, I would take out subsidized insurance for my business if I needed to to compete with my competitors, just as banks do with fdic. Once again, place the blame where it belongs - with the dumb electorate and corrupt political system.

Oh, I think Goldman Sachs and the other TARP thieves definitely deserve a bit of credit. The credit union down the street? No, not so much. But the bailout beneficiaries which are Too Big To Fail To Try To Squeeze Said Credit Union Out? Plenty of blame to lay at those feet. Plenty.

[stuntman stoll]

Other than this, the only interesting thing I can think of is massive class action suits against all bailout recipients.

WTF? You think businesses should be raped because the government chose to buy their stock and give them loans?
What do you think about going around to every farmer and demanding them to pay back their farm subsidies from the last 20 years?

[stuntman stoll]

Oh, I think Goldman Sachs and the other TARP thieves definitely deserve a bit of credit. The credit union down the street? No, not so much. But the bailout beneficiaries which are Too Big To Fail To Try To Squeeze Said Credit Union Out? Plenty of blame to lay at those feet. Plenty.
TARP was the government's fault. The dumb/corrupt politicians bought the "to big to fail" line. It was signed into law 1mo before the 08 election, and the dumb electorate did nothing about it.

[acptulsa]

TARP was the government's fault. The dumb/corrupt politicians bought the "to big to fail" line. It was signed into law 1mo before the 08 election, and the dumb electorate did nothing about it.

And if the dumb government makes a mistake and gives me a ten thousand dollar refund on a thousand dollar tax bill, they come and squeeze it out of my ass. Maybe the dumb taxpayers ought to smarten up until they're at the level of the slightly less dumb government?

[stuntman stoll]

And if the dumb government makes a mistake and gives me a ten thousand dollar refund on a thousand dollar tax bill, they come and squeeze it out of my ass. Maybe the dumb taxpayers ought to smarten up until they're at the level of the slightly less dumb government?

Apples and oranges. Mistake vs. intentional decision. If a bank accidentally deposits 1 million dollars in your account, you have to return it. If the bank agreed in a contract to give you the 1 million, then they can't demand that it be returned.

[acptulsa]

Are you really going to sit here all day and argue in favor of the legal rights of the perpetrators of the fraud of the century? Fine. Carry on. Could be an entertaining monologue.

I'm still not buying the Goldman Sachs CEO lunch. He can better afford to buy me lunch, but I don't see that happening either...

[stuntman stoll]

Are you really going to sit here all day and argue in favor of the legal rights of the perpetrators of the fraud of the century? Fine. Carry on. Could be an entertaining monologue.

A group of business asking the government for a handout/favor is the fraud of the century? That happens all the time, in every industry, at every level of government.

[acptulsa]

A group of business asking the government for a handout/favor is the fraud of the century? That happens all the time, in every industry, at every level of government.

And this is a libertarian forum. Are you lost? Got GPS?

Ever see the Monty Python's Flying Circus episode with a certain Renaissance crusader named Moore? Stealing from the poor and giving to the rich isn't exactly our milieu here. So I don't know why you're pleading for sympathy from us of all people.

[stuntman stoll]

And this is a libertarian forum. Are you lost? Got GPS?

ah yes, you're admitting that you were just spanked in a debate

[acptulsa]

ah yes, you're admitting that you were just spanked in a debate

Lulz. No, I'm admitting that I have better things to do than to sit here all day telling a stubborn person that the 'stimulus' failed to stimulate this still moribund economy, the money was not used as promised, summer tends to be warm and other blatantly obvious things. I'm far less patient with letting trollish behavior tie up my time than I used to be.

So, where were we before we were so rudely interrupted by this apologist? A class action lawsuit for fraud, if I remember correctly. What do the rest of us think? Got something better?

[cbc58]

stuntman,

please don't post any more views in this thread unless you have a concrete idea to share for which citizens can band together to effect change. you can have your views but don't hijack this thread... go start another one.

so far one idea is a class action lawsuit. any others?

[stuntman stoll]

No, I'm admitting that I have better things to do than to sit here all day...
No, you were getting spanked, so you tried attacking me instead. If you actually had better things to do, you just wouldn't have responded.


...telling a stubborn person that the 'stimulus' failed to stimulate this still moribund economy, the money was not used as promised, summer tends to be warm and other blatantly obvious things. I'm far less patient with letting trollish behavior tie up my time than I used to be.

Those were not what we were debating. I believe in the rule of law (life, liberty, property) . I don't care how rich or poor the people in question are. On the other hand, you seem to want to dismiss the rule of law when you want to attack a certain minority.

[acptulsa]

If you want to try to win this debate, start another thread and address my charge that fraud was committed. But start another thread to do it, and actually address the charge instead of just declaring victory. Because the OP has already asked you to stop hijacking his thread, and if you don't respect that request I'm going to report you myself.

[stuntman stoll]

If you want to try to win this debate, start another thread and address my charge that fraud was committed. But start another thread to do it, and actually address the charge instead of just declaring victory. Because the OP has already asked you to stop hijacking his thread, and if you don't respect that request I'm going to report you myself.

The debate was over 7 posts ago; a debate about an idea directly related to the original post.
But to address the original post itself, I disagree with the the premise. Collectivism, "banding together," is not the correct response to a piece of bad legislation or a few bad businesses or business practices.

[acptulsa]

So, we have a second suggestion, which as nearly as I can make out amounts to let fear of being called collectivist cause us to remain divided and conquered. Any others?

[stuntman stoll]

So, we have a second suggestion, which as nearly as I can make out amounts to let fear of being called collectivist cause us to remain divided and conquered. Any others?
That wasn't an idea. I was addressing the premise of the OP.
But how about this idea: Live according to your economic self interests and work to reduce/thwart government in general.
I submit that this is better than your class action lawsuit idea which is futile, illegal, and reeks of class warfare

[Bern]

Seraphim gave the best answer before the two of you started flirting.

[acptulsa]

I agreed before and agree again that Seraphim's answer is mighty good. That said, filing a lawsuit is not (yet) illegal, and for educational purposes amongst an enraged population, the other objections to the idea are, in fact, high praise.

[stuntman stoll]

Seraphim gave the best answer before the two of you started flirting.
That spanking wasn't flirting ;)

[romacox]

Other than this, the only interesting thing I can think of is massive class action suits against all bailout recipients. I don't know what effect exactly it would have if we filed lawsuits on behalf of ever American taxpayer against every corporation who got this infusion. But I do know it would get some serious attention--and any judge would have to think long and hard before throwing a suit out of court that names every American as plaintiff. We'd have to moneybomb to do it, but it sure could be fun.

The mere fact that they were given the money and didn't put it back in the economy as the politicians said they would could give us solid grounds for the suit on the accusation of fraud.

I like what you said

[acptulsa]

The thing about buying pms is, it protects those of us smart enough to do it, but it's only educational value comes after the fact when we get to say I told you so. And that isn't much help to the cause politically. The class action suit for fraud in the bailout process, on the other hand, would. But it's absolutely unprecedented. So, the question becomes, can we find a hot young lawyer hungry enough for the publicity to take it on?

[romacox]

The thing about buying pms is, it protects those of us smart enough to do it, but it's only educational value comes after the fact when we get to say I told you so. And that isn't much help to the cause politically. The class action suit for fraud in the bailout process, on the other hand, would. But it's absolutely unprecedented. So, the question becomes, can we find a hot young lawyer hungry enough for the publicity to take it on?

Some of the State's Attorneys, like Pam Bondi from Florida, Said they would take on unconstitutional laws when they were campaigning. I wounder if they meant it, or it it was a lie?

[Bern]

The thing about buying pms is, it protects those of us smart enough to do it, but it's only educational value comes after the fact when we get to say I told you so. And that isn't much help to the cause politically. ...

It is, but not because of any "educational value". It's economic reality that will force political action.

[acptulsa]

It is, but not because of any "educational value". It's economic reality that will force political action.

True dat.


Some of the State's Attorneys, like Pam Bondi from Florida, Said they would when they were campaigning. I wounder if they meant it, or it it was a lie?


Apparently not. Must be time for Floridians to call them on it. This would certainly give us a good basis to build on.

That said, if they're just going to make lying promises, maybe we're better off just stealing their thunder and running with it. Or, to put it another way, to hell with her. But it could be useful for talking an attorney into tackling it privately.

[Brian4Liberty]

I'm reading daily about how much greed, corruption and theft has been achieved by the banksters and how they are tightening the noose on the system to take assets and crush the middle class.

A simple question: can anything be done to stop them and recoup thier ill gotten gians? Is there anyway to take our country and financial system back and make them lose... and not us?

Seriously - if there was a way to bring everyone together (everyone - not just RP supporters) and communicate what needs to be done... what would it be that is realistic and achievable?

- Abolish the Federal Reserve.
- Government sound money backed by gold and silver.
- Competing currencies.
- No more taxpayer bailouts.
- Reinstate all separations of banking (power) ala Glass-Steagal.
- Better define fraud and prosecute it.
- Remove the revolving door between government and banks. (Common sense, don't make Al Capone the Head of the FBI).

[romacox]

True dat.




Apparently not. Must be time for Floridians to call them on it. This would certainly give us a good basis to build on.

That said, if they're just going to make lying promises, maybe we're better off just stealing their thunder and running with it. Or, to put it another way, to hell with her. But it could be useful for talking an attorney into tackling it privately.

I have contacted Pan Bondi's office, and have received no reply as of yet. Perhaps she is not aware of the Recent Supreme Court Decision that Citizens can challenge unconstitutional laws. http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/of-course-defendants-can-challenge-the-constitutionality-of-laws-under-which-theyre-prosecuted/

[iamse7en]

Not until we break all ties with the money changers, root out the secret combinations, cleanse America of corruption and immorality - will there be a restoration of liberty, real prosperity, and peace. That day will come, and although the Lord will initiate the cleansing, it's our job to rise up and defend constitutional principles.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Watkian socialism differs from others in how it utilizes communism within the banking industry and only within the banking industry. As Obama is clearly a communist and as others are sure to be coming out soon to admit that they too are communist, we need to embrace and accept it. In the future, all banking employees will make the same money. No perks, benefits, or bonuses!

Watkian communism - Restricts the use of communism to the banking industry and only the banking industry. In an idea Watkian society, all banking employees would make the same amount of money.

[Brian4Liberty]

Watkian socialism differs from others in how it utilizes communism within the banking industry and only within the banking industry. As Obama is clearly a communist and as others are sure to be coming out soon to admit that they too are communist, we need to embrace and accept it. In the future, all banking employees will make the same money. No perks, benefits, or bonuses!


While it is possible that Obama's ultimate agenda might be to crash the system so it can be replaced by communism, at this point he has been the biggest ally possible to the corporatist bankers and financiers. And they are also his biggest backers.

[Seraphim]

PEOPLE:

Buying gold and silver (platinum, palladium, copper....whatever you like) is the defacto competing currencies mentality.
Fuck the law - those cocksuckers control the law. Defy them. Don't ask for their fucking permission. DON'T ASK FOR THEIR FUCKING PERMISSION FOR COMPETING CURRENCIES. JUST DO IT.


Seraphim gave the best answer before the two of you started flirting.

[Seraphim]

shameless bump because the defacto competing currencies mentality needs to go viral.

[Carson]

I'm reading daily about how much greed, corruption and theft has been achieved by the banksters and how they are tightening the noose on the system to take assets and crush the middle class.

A simple question: can anything be done to stop them and recoup thier ill gotten gians? Is there anyway to take our country and financial system back and make them lose... and not us?

Seriously - if there was a way to bring everyone together (everyone - not just RP supporters) and communicate what needs to be done... what would it be that is realistic and achievable?

I feel you need to address the root of the problem.

When I started looking into where the money was coming from to buy off the politicians and subvert the immigration laws of the world, I came across what may be the root of many of our problems. Fiat Money.

No matter how much real money people can put together to build their countries the way they want there are those that can print up what ever it takes to get their way.

Maybe this will help make the danger of fiat money clear.

Imagine you and me are setting across from each other. We create enough money to represent all of the world's wealth. Each one of us has one SUPER Dollar in front of him.

You own half of everything and so do I.

I'm the government though. I get bribed into creating a Central Bank.

You're not doing what I want you to be doing so I print up myself eight more SUPER Dollars to manipulate you with.

All of a sudden your SUPER Dollar only represents one tenth of the wealth of the world!

That isn't the only thing though. You need to get busy and get to work because YOU'VE BEEN STIFFED with the bill for the money I PRINTED UP to get YOU TO DO what I WANTED.

That to me represents what has been happening to the economy, and us, and why so many of our occupations just can't keep up with the fake money presses.



Check out this chart and take a gander at earlier times when fiat money was introduced into the system.

http://photos.imageevent.com/stokeybob/followthemoney/RobertSahrcurrencyvalue.jpg

See the little bumps during times of war. That shows the devaluation of the currency at the time. People didn't like being paid with money that lost its purchasing power. Many refused to take it. After the wars were over it was withdrawn and the money returned to something you could bank on.

Once you have some of the basics it may help you understand why some of what we see now-a-days is happening.

We have transferred a lot of power outside of our government. Not only can the government use the central banks like we use our credit cards for cash but others also have the ability to print up what ever it takes to get their way.

[Seraphim]

Carson is right.

One GREAT way to NOT play their game is to buy precious metals - in doing so you DEFLATE the fiat game organically.

[DamianTV]

War Games

The only winning move is not to play.

When we play with a stacked deck of cards, we know we are going to lose. Little by little, like the old analogy of Frog in Boiling water, we lose everything to the ones that have usurped the power to print unbacked Fiat Currencies. Bernake recently stated that "GOLD IS NOT MONEY", when confronted by Ron Paul. We all want to get rid of the source of the Fiat Currency, which is the Privately Owned Federal Reserve Bank. If we succeed in getting rid of the Fed, our Politicians will just borrow money from someone else. Be it the International Monetary Fund (which the US is now the largest contributor toward their assets), or other countries like China. The will spend anything that we have of value by imposing Double Taxation, both standard taxes that we are all familiar with, and Inflation. They have ignored every single request that we have made, and it is time that we flat out start ignoring them.

The only solution that I can see for the People to free themselves from the Clutches of the Money Manipulators is to create and exclusively use Interest Free Value Based Competing Currencies.

A competing currency doesnt have to be anything fancy or require an expensive printing press. A simple piece of paper that says something like "Good for One Lawn Mowing" with a persons Signature. Use it amongst your neighbors and smaller communities at first. But if someone comes to redeem, expect to mow their yard. It could also say "Redeemable for One Vegetable" if you grow your own garden. I'd rather trade that with someone, and wont always cash them in, and in effect, since Labor and Vegetables as a Product have Value, simple hand written notes like that can replace the Defunct Dollar as our competing currency, in small communities.

---

Edit: Personally, I am flat broke. Jobless. No Unemployment. No income. I have no way to purchase Gold or Silver or even food. I have to borrow to live. But my Work has Value. My Word has Value, and is redeemable for Work, which makes what I offer have more Value than Any Fiat Currency.

[acptulsa]

shameless bump because the defacto competing currencies mentality needs to go viral.

What competing currencies? Bernanke is right. Gold isn't money. The law says so. Bernanke said so under oath. So there you go.

They haven't made barter illegal. Trading things that aren't money is barter, and it isn't illegal. How on earth could they make barter illegal? Done deal.

[Bern]

... Gold isn't money. The law says so. ...

I hate semantic games. Gold isn't legal tender. Money has a broader definition than legal tender.

In any event, I don't think you have grokked what Seraphim or I have been saying. The very act of trading your fiat paper for precious metals is voting with your capital on which money you value most. There are competing currencies right now - even if some are hamstringed by legal tender and capital gains laws. Should enough people start voting with their wallets, political support for removing those hamstrings will grow like a tidal wave.

Every dollar removed from the bank (and stored in PMs) hits the bank 5-10 times in terms of their power to leverage deposits.

[Travlyr]

I feel you need to address the root of the problem.

When I started looking into where the money was coming from to buy off the politicians and subvert the immigration laws of the world, I came across what may be the root of many of our problems. Fiat Money.

No matter how much real money people can put together to build their countries the way they want there are those that can print up what ever it takes to get their way.

Maybe this will help make the danger of fiat money clear.

Imagine you and me are setting across from each other. We create enough money to represent all of the world's wealth. Each one of us has one SUPER Dollar in front of him.

You own half of everything and so do I.

I'm the government though. I get bribed into creating a Central Bank.

You're not doing what I want you to be doing so I print up myself eight more SUPER Dollars to manipulate you with.

All of a sudden your SUPER Dollar only represents one tenth of the wealth of the world!

That isn't the only thing though. You need to get busy and get to work because YOU'VE BEEN STIFFED with the bill for the money I PRINTED UP to get YOU TO DO what I WANTED.

That to me represents what has been happening to the economy, and us, and why so many of our occupations just can't keep up with the fake money presses.
That ^^^ is how they steal 9 out of every 10 of our dollars ... pad their bank accounts & retirement funds ... war on other people in order to increase their profits ... travel the world in their yachts ... dine at expensive restaurants ... blow billions on fancy parties & weddings ... and tax us on the dollar they let us keep.

They have held the wealth of the world long enough. The sooner we take their counterfeiting power away, the sooner the people will enjoy liberty, peace, and their prosperity. Using competing currencies is a start, and it can be sped up by using "A Cross of Gold."

I am of the opinion that central bankers and politicians should cease and desist their immoral behavior immediately, and if they don't, then the guilty parties should lose their freedom and wealth.

[acptulsa]

I hate semantic games. Gold isn't legal tender. Money has a broader definition than legal tender.

In any event, I don't think you have grokked what Seraphim or I have been saying...

Oh, I grok. And ken. I even get it.

Now understand me. Lawyers live on semantics. They make the Porsche payments on semantics. If you want to trade in silver and/or gold, go for it. The official line is that the stuff isn't money. Barter is not illegal. So, as long as you don't actually post retail prices in the stuff, you can trade for it or with it all day and all night and no one can say a damned thing about it because it isn't money and barter is still among the endangered but extant rights we retain.

Go for it! No one can stop you! Get me yet? Do ya feel me?

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

While it is possible that Obama's ultimate agenda might be to crash the system so it can be replaced by communism, at this point he has been the biggest ally possible to the corporatist bankers and financiers. And they are also his biggest backers.

Well, first off, I think it is clear that Obama is a communist. I'm just trying to define what his economic philosophy is.
Look, a lot of people are coming out on the radio show "Coast to Coast" admitting that they are either hybrids of aliens or actual aliens themselves. This is a given. A lot of state are now coming out of the closet in support of gay marriage. This too is a given. So, figure people will be coming out next to confess to being communists. It's only a matter of time.
When president Obama finally comes out to admit he is a communist, it really won't surprise anyone. He has always had that look about him.
But I just can't see what motivates his socialism. Is it his African Americanism? It he Marxist? Leninist?
It doesn't surprise me that the bankers support Obama. Even the communist states of Russia and China had bankers as the only ones to do great in a communist state are the bankers.
So, this is the brilliance behind Watkian communism. Take half of a critical mass of the banking industry and, with it, collide another half of a critical mass of communism into it to create a total destruction for the benefit of the people.
Once again, communism should only be implemented in the banking industry to the extent that every employee within that industry makes exactly the same wage with no benefits, perks or bonuses.
Can no one else see the strategy in this move?

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

That ^^^ is how they steal 9 out of every 10 of our dollars ... pad their bank accounts & retirement funds ... war on other people in order to increase their profits ... travel the world in their yachts ... dine at expensive restaurants ... blow billions on fancy parties & weddings ... and tax us on the dollar they let us keep.

They have held the wealth of the world long enough. The sooner we take their counterfeiting power away, the sooner the people will enjoy liberty, peace, and their prosperity. Using competing currencies is a start, and it can be sped up by using "A Cross of Gold."

I am of the opinion that central bankers and politicians should cease and desist their immoral behavior immediately, and if they don't, then the guilty parties should lose their freedom and wealth.

Indeed, and the best way to acheive that is with the utilization of Watkian communism.

[Seraphim]

That is my point.

Fuck those laws - they do not govern my actions nor do they represent anything remotely close to JUSTICE.

Draining the fiat system by converting legal tender for commodity/metal based money is both a function of barter AND a function of competing currency.



What competing currencies? Bernanke is right. Gold isn't money. The law says so. Bernanke said so under oath. So there you go.

They haven't made barter illegal. Trading things that aren't money is barter, and it isn't illegal. How on earth could they make barter illegal? Done deal.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

That is my point.

Fuck those laws - they do not govern my actions nor do they represent anything remotely close to JUSTICE.

Draining the fiat system by converting legal tender for commodity/metal based money is both a function of barter AND a function of competing currency.

As communism is always going to be there to stick its head out of the hole, the bankers are always going to be there as the primary reason our nation suffers from depressions and recessions. So, implement Watkinian communism! Indeed, we should embrace communism by implementing it in the banking industry and only in the banking industry. In this way, tyranny serves the people because every communist employee within the banking industry makes the same wage with no benefits, perks, or bonuses.
In a sane world you could call me crazy, but no one alive today has a right to speak. Absolutely nothing works, so nothing ever did. I'm not arguing for change, but for chaos.

[Travlyr]

Indeed, and the best way to acheive that is with the utilization of Watkian communism.

OR! Not Marxist ... Liberty, Peace, and Prosperity as prescribed by the good Doctor Ron Paul using honest sound money.

[Seraphim]

Forceably implementing same wage policy for bankers is the antithesis to "chaos".

Sorry dude - are you on PCP right now? I ask respectfully.



As communism is always going to be there to stick its head out of the hole, the bankers are always going to be there as the primary reason our nation suffers from depressions and recessions. So, implement Watkinian communism! Indeed, we should embrace communism by implementing it in the banking industry and only in the banking industry. In this way, tyranny serves the people because every communist employee within the banking industry makes the same wage with no benefits, perks, or bonuses.
In a sane world you could call me crazy, but no one alive today has a right to speak. Absolutely nothing works, so nothing ever did. I'm not arguing for change, but for chaos.

[Carson]

War Games

The only winning move is not to play.

Snip...

Edit: Personally, I am flat broke. Jobless. No Unemployment. No income. I have no way to purchase Gold or Silver or even food. I have to borrow to live. But my Work has Value. My Word has Value, and is redeemable for Work, which makes what I offer have more Value than Any Fiat Currency.

Sounds like me. Let me guess. You've worked all your life and have a mountain of debt to show for it.

[Seraphim]

Help is on the way. Keep fighting...

Something tells me that REAL help is on the way...just keep fighting so that you're there to receive the help...


Sounds like me. Let me guess. You've worked all your life and have a mountain of dept to show for it.

[Travlyr]

Sounds like me. Let me guess. You've worked all your life and have a mountain of debt to show for it.

It is not my debt. I swear. They created it out of my signature and did not tell me how they were doing it. I claim contract law requires full disclosure.

Fuckem.

[Bern]

As communism is always going to be there to stick its head out of the hole, the bankers are always going to be there as the primary reason our nation suffers from depressions and recessions. So, implement Watkinian communism! Indeed, we should embrace communism by implementing it in the banking industry and only in the banking industry. In this way, tyranny serves the people because every communist employee within the banking industry makes the same wage with no benefits, perks, or bonuses.
In a sane world you could call me crazy, but no one alive today has a right to speak. Absolutely nothing works, so nothing ever did. I'm not arguing for change, but for chaos.

Neg rep for the Billy Madison style incoherent nonsense. I award you zero points and may God have mercy on your soul.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Neg rep for the Billy Madison style incoherent nonsense. I award you zero points and may God have mercy on your soul.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

People always said I was ahead of the curve. In fact, I use to swing the bat everytime the pitcher bent over to spit tobacco. Let me ask the questions again:
Will communism ever disappear?
No.
Will the banking system ever evolve to where it isn't crashing our nation into economic recessions and depresssion?
No.
What do you do if you have too many lawyers on one hand while you have far too many pot holes on the other?
Hmmm . . .
Speaking of the lawyers who have ruined our nation as politicians. You know, if you took all the politicians in the United States and all the politicians from Mexico and grounded them down like hamburger meat to their most basic element, you wouldn't be able to perceive a shred of difference between them outside of doing a DnA test. The same is true of communist or capitalist politicians. It's all the same globs of fat, a little meat, and bone.
Sorry, but if the people of the United States don't have a greater Civil Purpose, this is all that we have.
In the end, we are all ruled by Mexicans!

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Forceably implementing same wage policy for bankers is the antithesis to "chaos".

Sorry dude - are you on PCP right now? I ask respectfully.

There was a time when people could argue that it just doesn't work that way. Well, as we sit thirteen trillion dollars in debt, it is more obvious that it never worked. Excuse me, but just who is the crazy one here? I guess you plan on paying back your share of the thirteen trillion? Have you saved up $500,000? When you do pay for it, what are you going to get in return? And you think I'm on PCP?
Look, this will work. Ram communism and the banking industry together! They deserve each other.

[AceNZ]

A simple question: can anything be done to stop them and recoup thier ill gotten gians? Is there anyway to take our country and financial system back and make them lose... and not us?

The answer is to bring back the idea that Capitalism requires people and companies that engage in the business of risk to also accept losses when the occur. The idea of socializing losses through bailouts of one kind or another are antithetical to the American way of life.

In order for this to happen, we must:

-- Abolish the Federal Reserve. They are the source of funds for most bailouts.
-- Abolish the FDIC.

Together, these will naturally work to restrict Fractional Reserve Banking, since it can't survive in the long term without a safety net.

-- Return to sound money.

Competing currencies, as RP suggests, is one approach. The idea is to remove the ability of the government to tax by way of diluting the value of money through inflation.

As far as recouping ill gotten gains, that can probably only happen through the courts. One could rightfully ask why no one has yet been brought to justice as a result of the recent banking frauds and disasters. That needs to change. Hundreds of people were prosecuted as a result of the Savings and Loan crisis; the list of criminals is certainly much longer in this case. I believe the reason this hasn't happened yet is because TPTB believe it would undermine confidence in the financial system. I think the reverse is actually true.

However, having said the above, I should add that the transition would not be pain-free. There would be a significant period of adjustment that could be painful for many -- not unlike withdrawal when you're a drug addict. The country is addicted to "easy" money and bailouts. However, the alternative to a painful withdrawal at this stage is death. Unfortunately, it's difficult for the addict to see the truth.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

The answer is to bring back the idea that Capitalism requires people and companies that engage in the business of risk to also accept losses when the occur. The idea of socializing losses through bailouts of one kind or another are antithetical to the American way of life.

In order for this to happen, we must:

-- Abolish the Federal Reserve. They are the source of funds for most bailouts.
-- Abolish the FDIC.

Together, these will naturally work to restrict Fractional Reserve Banking, since it can't survive in the long term without a safety net.

-- Return to sound money.

Competing currencies, as RP suggests, is one approach. The idea is to remove the ability of the government to tax by way of diluting the value of money through inflation.

As far as recouping ill gotten gains, that can probably only happen through the courts. One could rightfully ask why no one has yet been brought to justice as a result of the recent banking frauds and disasters. That needs to change. Hundreds of people were prosecuted as a result of the Savings and Loan crisis; the list of criminals is certainly much longer in this case. I believe the reason this hasn't happened yet is because TPTB believe it would undermine confidence in the financial system. I think the reverse is actually true.

However, having said the above, I should add that the transition would not be pain-free. There would be a significant period of adjustment that could be painful for many -- not unlike withdrawal when you're a drug addict. The country is addicted to "easy" money and bailouts. However, the alternative to a painful withdrawal at this stage is death. Unfortunately, it's difficult for the addict to see the truth.

When you say socialism, do you mean communism? Let's call a horse a horse. Neither capitalism nor communism will ever work because both have always existed as a convenience for both parties to utilize depending on whatever combination of the two is good for tyranny and bad for the people.
Once again, the best way to proceed is with the implementation of Watkinian Communism: Implementation of a communist system in the banking industry and only in the banking industry. This way the endeavor of banking serves the people instead of screwing them as it has done forever from the beginning of time.

[AceNZ]

When you say socialism, do you mean communism?

I said socialize, not socialism.


Neither capitalism nor communism will ever work because both have always existed as a convenience for both parties to utilize depending on whatever combination of the two is good for tyranny and bad for the people.

The crony capitalism / corporatism of today will never work, but that's not real capitalism.

History clearly shows that the closer to laissez-faire capitalism a society moves, the more prosperous it becomes -- it's also the only moral economic system.