Ron Paul won't be seeking re-election

[Bergie Bergeron]

Story here: http://thefacts.com/article_1c9785ea-ac9d-11e0-b2df-001cc4c03286.html

Is Debra Medina in that district?

[KramerDSP]

Wow! This is huge. He's basically saying two things. One, he's all-in to win the Presidency. Two, he realizes he has little sway as a committee chairman and doesn't think the chairmanship is worth another two years of service in the House.

[payme_rick]

I do believe that Wharton County (where Deb is I think) is in the 14... I'm in the south part of the 14.... Wharton County is the county north of me...

[COpatriot]

Is this for real or is this a joke?

[rp08orbust]

He should challenge Michele to do the same.

[LibertyEagle]

Wow! This is huge. He's basically saying two things. One, he's all-in to win the Presidency. Two, he realizes he has little sway as a committee chairman and doesn't think the chairmanship is worth another two years of service in the House.

Yeah, I forgot about his chairmanship. :(

[Havax]

What does an independent need to be polling at to enter the presidential debates? Obama-Romney-Paul. Imagine the amount of people seeing Paul's message exposing the left-right paradigm between Obama and Romney. By that time the economy will be even worse, and Paul will be the only option to end the wars.

[fisharmor]

Imagine the amount of people seeing Paul's message exposing the left-right paradigm between Obama and Romney.

It takes quite an imagination to see that. No person not representing one of the two parties will ever be allowed into the dialog.

[LibertyEagle]

He is not going to run as an Independent. How many times does he have to tell us that, before we stop this shit?

[Havax]

He told us that a lot in the 2008 cycle, but not once in this cycle.

[Havax]

It takes quite an imagination to see that. No person not representing one of the two parties will ever be allowed into the dialog.

Ross Perot says hello.

[K466]

This is a shocker. I hope it means RP 2012 is going to be taken more seriously than ever.

Still, his chances appear to be low, what on earth would he do if not elected to some office? Maybe he wants to retire or do something else.

[rp08orbust]

He is not going to run as an Independent. How many times does he have to tell us that, before we stop this shit?

That was the old Ron.

[COpatriot]

Well this is it folks. We are officially ALL IN. There's no turning back now. We have to go balls out in this campaign.

[RoyalShock]

That was the old Ron.

IIRC, in the last go around there was always a lot of doubt, due to the marginalization going on, he had much chance to win the primary, so the idea of running 3rd party was getting floated a lot. And he responded to that. This time there is real reason to believe he has a shot, and it's still very early to be talking about 3rd party. So there really is no reason for him to address it.

Just my take.

[Kords21]

Kind of strange to see it as a breaking news flash on the fox home page. No matter how this election turns out, I thank Dr. Paul for what he has done for this nation.

[dannno]

He is not going to run as an Independent. How many times does he have to tell us that, before we stop this shit?

Wait a minute, he thinks the best strategy to be President is through the Republican Party.. but after the primaries, the main reason he can't run as a 3rd party is because of his congressional seat. Without that, why NOT go third party? Only after the primaries, of course.

[Napoleon's Shadow]

I think they drew Medina out of his district.

[dannno]

Ross Perot says hello.

Hopefully the CIA won't harass Ron Paul's kids and their weddings.

[Kords21]

This is one way to grab headlines for a day especially when I'm seeing his Debt ceiling web ad in a lot of places. I think I sometimes forget that Dr. Paul is sly like a fox sometimes.

[RonPaulCult]

I hope Ron Paul will make it to the White House, but if he does not I couldn't be happier for him. He deserves retirement and the time he will spend with his wife, kids and grandkids. He HAS sparked a revolution, we have some others in congress not carrying the torch and his own son is in the Senate.

Let's put everything into this election now guys!

[Bergie Bergeron]

Ron Paul is all in and here is the BEST way you can help him:

Operation: Call Iowa
Grassroots Phone Banking Bomb - Friday, July 15th through Friday, July 22nd

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?302665-quot-Operation-Call-Iowa-quot-Phone-banking-PARTICIPATION-BOMB-July-15-22&p=3389942&viewfull=1#post3389942

[fisharmor]

Ross Perot says hello.

So do the fucking New Kids On The Block.
1992 called: it wants its political reality back.

[Aldanga]

Wait a minute, he thinks the best strategy to be President is through the Republican Party.. but after the primaries, the main reason he can't run as a 3rd party is because of his congressional seat. Without that, why NOT go third party? Only after the primaries, of course.

Sore loser laws still apply.

[RonPaulCult]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMV-fenGP1g

[RileyE104]

I hope Ron Paul will make it to the White House, but if he does not I couldn't be happier for him. He deserves retirement and the time he will spend with his wife, kids and grandkids.

I agree that he deserves retirement if that's what he chooses, however people seem to be forgetting that it's just one two year cycle... He could easily come back in 2014 if he wanted to. Especially since his district is so much smaller now due to redistricting.

[TCE]

Realistically, him being in the House for two more years won't change anything anyway. And realistically, he deserves a nice, quiet retirement. He can't have much more time left, so why not enjoy it relaxing? If Medina is still in the 14th, this is basically her only shot to become relevant again as whoever wins this time around will be in the seat forever.

Oh, and I don't think I would be advertising "all-in" just yet. It didn't work out for the last ones to use it: http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/white-sox-billboard1.jpg?w=300
Record: 44-48

[Kregisen]

Wait a minute, he thinks the best strategy to be President is through the Republican Party.. but after the primaries, the main reason he can't run as a 3rd party is because of his congressional seat. Without that, why NOT go third party? Only after the primaries, of course.

Because if he goes 3rd party Rand will never win a primary in his life, otherwise he wins it in 2016.

[Joey Fuller]

I'm with Ron.. I'm "ALL IN" for the Ron Paul 2012 campaign.. and if the unspeakable should happen, then I am going to retire from blogging/activism as well...

[Paul Or Nothing II]

Still, his chances appear to be low, what on earth would he do if not elected to some office?

Yes, that's what I am thinking about, I mean if he couldn't make it to the WH then just having him in Congress when SHTF would be nice, just so that he could have a platform to keep spreading his message & awakening people, & these are some of the best times for spreading his message. :(


What does an independent need to be polling at to enter the presidential debates? Obama-Romney-Paul.


He told us that a lot in the 2008 cycle, but not once in this cycle.


That was the old Ron.


Wait a minute, he thinks the best strategy to be President is through the Republican Party.. but after the primaries, the main reason he can't run as a 3rd party is because of his congressional seat. Without that, why NOT go third party? Only after the primaries, of course.

Go to 10:00 & listen for yourselves, he's said he's NOT going to do it


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_9dNHr3or4

[RonPaulCult]

Sore loser laws still apply.

I believe they do NOT apply to presidential candidates actually

EDIT: In most states they do not apply, but in quite a few big states they do apply: "The exceptions are Texas, Ohio, Mississippi and South Dakota (where elections officials have said the sore loser laws do apply), and Pennsylvania (where the law has never been tested)"

[YumYum]

The more I think about it, if Ron doesn't win the primary, he would have a great chance of winning the election as an independent. If he isn't going to remain in Congress, he needs to stick with this campaign all the way to the end.

[sparebulb]

How about Ron taking Beck's time slot on Fox?

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

The guy is almost 80. I sure he doesnt want to live out his years as a congressman. He's going to give it all he has to become Pres. and if that doesnt work he is going to go enjoy the rest of his life with his wife and grandkids.

[TCE]

The guy is almost 80. I sure he doesnt want to live out his years as a congressman. He's going to give it all he has to become Pres. and if that doesnt work he is going to go enjoy the rest of his life with his wife and grandkids.

Couldn't have said it any better or more succinctly.

[Cutlerzzz]

Wait a minute, he thinks the best strategy to be President is through the Republican Party.. but after the primaries, the main reason he can't run as a 3rd party is because of his congressional seat. Without that, why NOT go third party? Only after the primaries, of course.

The argument could be made that that it would hurt Rand's hypothetical chances in 2016.

[TCE]

For all of you on the Independent bandwagon, what do you think Ron's realistic chances of winning as an Independent are? Pretty close to zero.

[White Bear Lake]

The argument could be made that that it would hurt Rand's hypothetical chances in 2016.

This is what I'm thinking. If he runs as an indie, get say 15-20% of the national vote, and Obama squeaks back into the White House, then Rand's popularity will plummet amongst Republicans and he will have no chance of ever winning the GOP nomination. Especially if he does any campaigning at all for Ron. It's the GOP primary or bust.

[Sola_Fide]

Looks like Rand's all in too:


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?302875-Rand-s-Statement-On-Ron-s-Not-Seeking-Reelection&p=3392856#post3392856

[YumYum]

This is what I'm thinking. If he runs as an indie, get say 15-20% of the national vote, and Obama squeaks back into the White House, then Rand's popularity will plummet amongst Republicans and he will have no chance of ever winning the GOP nomination. Especially if he does any campaigning at all for Ron. It's the GOP primary or bust.

We are in a revolution. It's the presidency or bust. If we don't get Ron Paul in office by 2012, conditions will be so bad by 2016 Rand wouldn't want to run for president. I thought the people on this forum are predicting the collapse of the dollar any day now. So, will the dollar wait to collapse to allow Rand Paul to run in 2016? If Ron loses the Republican primary, he would pull a significant amount of votes away from disgruntled Republicans and Democrats alike if he ran as an Independent.

Ron Paul's new slogan should be:

Time is not on America's side.

[Cutlerzzz]

We are in a revolution. It's the presidency or bust. If we don't get Ron Paul in office by 2012, conditions will be so bad by 2016 Rand wouldn't want to run for president. I thought the people on this forum are predicting the collapse of the dollar any day now. So, will the dollar wait to collapse to allow Rand Paul to run in 2016? If Ron loses the Republican primary, he would pull a significant amount of votes away from disgruntled Republicans and Democrats alike if he ran as an Independent.

Ron Paul's new slogan should be:

Time is not on America's side.

Maybe this isn't directly related to this thread, but something that scares me shitless is that if Ron were to win, he'll probably get blamed for the economic collapse. I'll continue donating to the campaign and trying to convince people to vote for him, but I know the establishment would try it.

[Theocrat]

When Ron Paul retires from Congress, they need to erect a statue of him somewhere in the Capitol...or just replace the Statue of Liberty with a statue of him, holding the Constitution in his left hand and a bag of gold held high in the other. :D

[kahless]

For all of you on the Independent bandwagon, what do you think Ron's realistic chances of winning as an Independent are? Pretty close to zero.

I do not want to see an Obama second term but if Ron loses the Republican primary it would feel real good seeing him do major damage in draining votes from both parties and perhaps building a long term third party.

I suppose you are correct that it is better to have the Republican party that is made up of a few Conservatives and Libertarians but is primarily made up of Corporatists, Progressives and Neocons, rather than the Corporatist, Progressive, Neocon, Socialist and Communist Democrats. The goal being to change the Republican party from within and hope the few Libertarians/Conservatives in the Republican party can slow the others down.

[nobody's_hero]

I do not want to see an Obama second term but if Ron loses the Republican primary it would feel real good seeing him do major damage in draining votes from both parties and perhaps building a long term third party.

I agree, if he is not going to run again, he needs to go out with a huge bang, like dragging down the major parties in a 3-way toss-up.

Having said that, I don't think he should burn that bridge until he crosses it. Do everything possible to win him the Republican nomination, and if he doesn't win it, we go for a "Doolittle Raid" on the two-party establishment.

[Napoleon's Shadow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDhFNV7vsqo

[FreedomProsperityPeace]

If he doesn't win the nomination and election, I'm sure he will continue to be a champion for liberty in the private sector. He will still write books, give speeches, endorse candidates, etc. He just won't be in elected office. As we've seen with Palin, that can be an even better place to spread your message.

[Carehn]

He is going to win the nomination. I don't blame him.

[cindy25]

Story here: http://thefacts.com/article_1c9785ea-ac9d-11e0-b2df-001cc4c03286.html

Is Debra Medina in that district?

doesn't matter; you only need to live in the same state to run for the house; the new congresswoman from Buffalo does not live in her district.

[Agorism]

Marcus Carey for senate!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

http://cmsimg.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=AB&Date=20110102&Category=NEWS0103&ArtNo=101030311&Ref=V4&MaxW=300&Border=0

[cindy25]

I believe they do NOT apply to presidential candidates actually

EDIT: In most states they do not apply, but in quite a few big states they do apply: "The exceptions are Texas, Ohio, Mississippi and South Dakota (where elections officials have said the sore loser laws do apply), and Pennsylvania (where the law has never been tested)"

you vote for electors not the presidential candidate; in states with sore loser laws just put Rand or Robert on the ballot; the electors can vote for who they wish anyway.

[cindy25]

1) Trump will probably run as an independent anyway
2) this is a move against Bachmann ; Ron is thinking of her as the major opponent.

[anaconda]

What does an independent need to be polling at to enter the presidential debates? Obama-Romney-Paul. Imagine the amount of people seeing Paul's message exposing the left-right paradigm between Obama and Romney. By that time the economy will be even worse, and Paul will be the only option to end the wars.

I am nearly convinced that this has been the plan all along. This will also take down Romney and leave the door wide open for Rand in 2016. But I think Ron may have a real chance in 2012.

[Carehn]

I am nearly convinced that this has been the plan all along. This will also take down Romney and leave the door wide open for Rand in 2016. But I think Ron may have a real chance in 2012.

i would rather see obama over romney. the republicrats must learn

[BlackTerrel]

This is the equivalent of a poker player going all in.

It's this hand or bust. Let's do it.

[cindy25]

15% polling to get in the debates; but it won't be Romney:
Bachmann-Obama-Paul-Trump

[trey4sports]

15% polling to get in the debates; but it won't be Romney:
Bachmann-Obama-Paul-Trump

Trump is toast. No way he runs

[Revolution9]

Hopefully the CIA won't harass Ron Paul's kids and their weddings.

That was a Mossad operation. I busted their op against RP precinct captains to match up email domains with posts to their yahoo.gay.teen.sex.images to use indiscretion of precinct captains children to pull a Ross Perot styled blackmail had they found a cross link in the email domains. They set Perot's daughter up with an Israeli lesbian honeypot and got the pictures. It all started with an anonymous PM and a link to an old American Mafia magazine. Cool shit. Guess I was contacted for my big mouth and proclivity to wade into things. I always tell that story when people think the whole political campaigning thing is boring.

Rev9

[QueenB4Liberty]

The guy is almost 80. I sure he doesnt want to live out his years as a congressman. He's going to give it all he has to become Pres. and if that doesnt work he is going to go enjoy the rest of his life with his wife and grandkids.

Yeah I wasn't even thinking he'd seek a third party run. He deserves to enjoy his retirement. I will miss him terribly though.

[bkreigh]

FUCK! It just hit me. What is going to happen to this forum after his time in office is exhausted (obviously 2016)? Just rename it Liberty Forest?

[trey4sports]

FUCK! It just hit me. What is going to happen to this forum after his time in office is exhausted (obviously 2016)? Just rename it Liberty Forest?

yeah, thought about it as well. Josh/Bryan also has RandPaulForums.com (i remember that domain forwarding to rpf during rands run) so i'm sure it will probably go to libertyforest(dot)com or RandPaulForums(dot)com

[Original_Intent]

Iread in one of his interviews today that one of the reasons he is stepping down as congressman because many in the 2008 campaign criticised him for not being committed to the presidential run and holding onto the songressional seat as a backup. I remember some grumbling to that effect here - so I think in his humble way, Ron is giving us what we asked for. I think he is going to be all in for this run, he EVEN said he expects to miss some congressional votes this time around - that was something he adamantly avoided last time. Again, I feel he is going to give this his all, and if the country doesn't him, he is going to enjoy the rest of his life and probably prepare to bunker down when TSHTF. (I would NOT want to be a Congressman or any leader when that happens - even if you are one of the good guys, it's gonna be a mob mentality and martial law - and most will just blindly be lashing out at both friend and foe.

[Peace&Freedom]

Yeah I wasn't even thinking he'd seek a third party run. He deserves to enjoy his retirement. I will miss him terribly though.

But America needs a viable choice of anti-war, anti-Fed, non-Goldman Sachs/NWO choice on the ballot on ELECTION DAY. Who will be able to enjoy a retirement, once America collapses by or after 2012? Now that Paul is not running for Congress again, and what "save the GOP" insurgents have had their chance to try to help redeem the party for liberty, there is nothing holding Paul back from running full out through November 2012 for President, on whatever party line. Paul's loyalty to the GOP is residually based on a sense that they will at some point practice good faith in letting him fairly earn a victory in the primaries. Once the leadership hoses him AGAIN in early 2012 (in all probability), it will be time to revisit that good faith loyalty.

The real practical reason for Paul saying he will not run as an independent is to not turn off GOP primary voters, who might not vote for Paul if he announced he was going to be a potential "spoiler." As in 2008, the Republican nomination battle should be all but decided by February or March in 2012. That gives Paul time to switch from GOP Presidential contender to LP/CP contender in time for their conventions in mid-spring. When/if the MSM and elite vote-frauds Paul out of winning key early primaries and coronate Romney as the prospective nominee, it will at last be time for the gloves to come off. With the good faith broken, and no other House obstructions to deal with, Paul should change up and go for it on a third party line. C'mon, Ron, America needs to have the choice to vote for you on Election day next year.

[RCA]

Maybe Paul has finally gone full-blown ancap?

[Theocrat]

But America needs a viable choice of anti-war, anti-Fed, non-Goldman Sachs/NWO choice on the ballot on ELECTION DAY. Who will be able to enjoy a retirement, once America collapses by or after 2012? Now that Paul is not running for Congress again, and what "save the GOP" insurgents have had their chance to try to help redeem the party for liberty, there is nothing holding Paul back from running full out through November 2012 for President, on whatever party line. Paul's loyalty to the GOP is residually based on a sense that they will at some point practice good faith in giving him a victory in the primaries. Once the leadership hoses him AGAIN in early 2012 (in all probability), it will be time to revisit that good faith loyalty.

The real practical reason for Paul saying he will not run as an independent is to not turn of GOP primary voters who might not vote for Paul if he announced he was going to be a potential "spoiler." As in 2008, the Republican nomination battle should be decided by February or March in 2012. That gives Paul time to switch from GOP Presidential contender to LP/CP contender in time for their conventions in mid-spring. When/if the MSM and elite vote-frauds Paul out of winning key early primaries and coronate Romney as the prospective nominee, it will at last be time for the gloves to come off. With the good faith broken, and no other House obstructions to deal with, Paul should change up and go for it on a third party line. C'mon, Ron, America needs to have the choice to vote for you on Election day next year.

Nah. That will be the time for third parties to emerge.

[TCE]

But America needs a viable choice of anti-war, anti-Fed, non-Goldman Sachs/NWO choice on the ballot on ELECTION DAY. Who will be able to enjoy a retirement, once America collapses by or after 2012? Now that Paul is not running for Congress again, and what "save the GOP" insurgents have had their chance to try to help redeem the party for liberty, there is nothing holding Paul back from running full out through November 2012 for President, on whatever party line. Paul's loyalty to the GOP is residually based on a sense that they will at some point practice good faith in letting him fairly earn a victory in the primaries. Once the leadership hoses him AGAIN in early 2012 (in all probability), it will be time to revisit that good faith loyalty.

The real practical reason for Paul saying he will not run as an independent is to not turn off GOP primary voters, who might not vote for Paul if he announced he was going to be a potential "spoiler." As in 2008, the Republican nomination battle should be all but decided by February or March in 2012. That gives Paul time to switch from GOP Presidential contender to LP/CP contender in time for their conventions in mid-spring. When/if the MSM and elite vote-frauds Paul out of winning key early primaries and coronate Romney as the prospective nominee, it will at last be time for the gloves to come off. With the good faith broken, and no other House obstructions to deal with, Paul should change up and go for it on a third party line. C'mon, Ron, America needs to have the choice to vote for you on Election day next year.

But here is the thing: Say Ron does run as an Independent. In all likelihood, especially after he has to overcome tough state election laws for Independents in states such as Texas, he will lose to either Romney or Obama. No matter who wins, we lose. Why? Let's say Obama wins, as he is expected to. The GOP will then completely blame the entire thing on Ron, libertarians, and Constitutionalists. They will say we are extremists who only care about ourselves and will do anything to kill the Republican Party. Our image will be tarnished on the national level. If Romney/GOP Candidate "X" wins, the Conservatives, Moderates, and Liberals will blame Ron and the aforementioned groups. That will hurt us on any and all things we agree with liberals on and our image will be tarnished in that manner.

Either way, unless Ron wins, which we have to admit is highly, highly unlikely, we lose in a big way. And I haven't even mentioned the effect this would have on Rand. I can see it now, "your father, the traitor."

[anaconda]

i would rather see obama over romney. the republicrats must learn

Yes. You are correct. Ron's 3rd Party run will accomplish what you are hoping for. And clear the way for Rand in 2016.

[anaconda]

FUCK! It just hit me. What is going to happen to this forum after his time in office is exhausted (obviously 2016)? Just rename it Liberty Forest?

RAND BABY! PLUS: I think you are mistaken that Ron's "retirement" means he is going to be doting over the grand kids. Think Palin "retiring" from Alaska but on major steroids. Ron sees the government drowning in its own feces and he is going to take a different approach. I can't wait to see what Ron has up his sleeve for "retirement."

[svobody]

He's done everything he can do in Congress. Time to move on. This will give him more time to campaign for other people, campaign for himself, and you know, enjoy the golden years.

Plus, now he can hold the 3rd party run "gun" to the GOP's head.

[cindy25]

regardless of who the GOP nominates (and that includes Paul) the election will be decided by the house because Trump will see opportunity to run his type of campaign (media, no retail) and even if Trump carries a few states it goes to the house. a fourth candidate splits the vote more.

[Peace&Freedom]

But here is the thing: Say Ron does run as an Independent. In all likelihood, especially after he has to overcome tough state election laws for Independents in states such as Texas, he will lose to either Romney or Obama. No matter who wins, we lose. Why? Let's say Obama wins, as he is expected to. The GOP will then completely blame the entire thing on Ron, libertarians, and Constitutionalists. They will say we are extremists who only care about ourselves and will do anything to kill the Republican Party. Our image will be tarnished on the national level. If Romney/GOP Candidate "X" wins, the Conservatives, Moderates, and Liberals will blame Ron and the aforementioned groups. That will hurt us on any and all things we agree with liberals on and our image will be tarnished in that manner.


As opposed to the current situation, where we are already treated as marginal, and tarnished as extremists? Please. Our purpose is CHANGE, not indefinite good relations, or "keep walking six paces behind me like a good slave-wife" status with the GOP. What's the point of not spoiling and winning a few more elections, if there is no resulting reform or repeal of the welfare-warfare-Fed/NWO total state? Ultimately, since there's not a dime's worth of difference between either major party on any push comes to shove issue, we should be fielding Ron Paul Republicans and Ron Paul Democrats wherever they can win, not try to be in the hip pocket of either establishment party.

In the meantime, if you are largely going to be in the pocket of one party, let's take a cue from the success of the tea party movement, and choose to be a tack. It's only because the TP caused the GOP pain last year by ousting some of their incumbents in the primaries, that the Boehners have stood firm at all about spending cuts and no tax increases to this point. If we're going to be in their pocket, we have to be a tack, otherwise we'll just get squished, like all the other co-opted groups under their umbrella. We can't be held hostage to the spoiler rhetoric forever. We need change, and that requires causing some politicians some pain.

PS: For a better understanding of this strategy, here's an insightful Gary North column:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north833.html

[TCE]

As opposed to the current situation, where we are already treated as marginal, and tarnished as extremists? Please. Our purpose is CHANGE, not indefinite good relations, or "keep walking six paces behind me like a good slave-wife" status with the GOP. What's the point of not spoiling and winning a few more elections, if there is no resulting reform or repeal of the welfare-warfare-Fed/NWO total state? Ultimately, since there's not a dime's worth of difference between either major party on any push comes to shove issue, we should be fielding Ron Paul Republicans and Ron Paul Democrats wherever they can win, not try to be in the hip pocket of either establishment party.

In the meantime, if you are largely going to be in the pocket of one party, let's take a cue from the success of the tea party movement, and choose to be a tack. It's only because the TP caused the GOP pain last year by ousting some of their incumbents in the primaries, that the Boehners have stood firm at all about spending cuts and no tax increases to this point. If we're going to be in their pocket, we have to be a tack, otherwise we'll just get squished, like all the other co-opted groups under their umbrella. We can't be held hostage to the spoiler rhetoric forever. We need change, and that requires causing some politicians some pain.

PS: For a better understanding of this strategy, here's an insightful Gary North column:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north833.html

I read the article and it is a good one, but incorrect for this situation. The Republicans are going to ruin this all by themselves and Obama will coast to an easy victory, let's not draw unnecessary bad attention to ourselves that way. This is more of an all-out "burn your bridges" exercise than anything else. In 2008, this would have been a viable strategy. We had no one besides Ron in the spotlight, so there would have been no loss for facing off against McCain. Now we have something to lose. We actually have a young star in Rand who would be torn from a move such as this and we gain nothing from it. Obama will win no matter what Ron does in that scenario, so why even put either person in that situation? That article has given me an idea, though. I believe it is a brilliant idea, but this would be a misapplication of its use. Look out for a thread I am writing now.

[Peace&Freedom]

There will always be an excuse made for "not burning our bridges" with a Republican party that, based on its total record, has done NOTHING to reverse, stop or in many cases even slow down the rise of the total state. In 2008 the excuse was, "we have something to lose, Ron Paul and his supporters will be blamed for the spoiling it for the GOP, and he will lose committee assignments, and we'll ruin giving the "save the GOP" people a shot to take advantage of the power vacuum left by McCain's defeat," etc. I've heard them all. NOW the excuse is "we have something to lose, RAND Paul and his supporters will be blamed for the spoiling it for the GOP, and he will lose committee assignments," yada, yada.

Folks, if they blackout and vote-fraud Paul out of winning the nomination AGAIN, it's time to spoil it for the GOP! We have nothing to lose, or less to lose now than ever before, since our movement is much more entrenched than before 2007. And we simply cannot succeed in causing pain to the major parties, by NOT causing them pain. It's time to be a tack!

[Rael]

I'm done voting for the lesser of two evils. I hope Ron does run independent if he fails to get the nomination.

[AgentOrange]

Let's be honest, if Ron Paul is unfairly kept from getting the Republican nomination for President....then in 4 years, those same tactics will be used to keep Rand Paul from getting the Republican nomination for President.