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Freedom 4 all
07-06-2011, 08:32 PM
I like to inform myself on the views of the other side. I've read countless passionate arguments (usually based almost entirely on cowardice) in favor of the patriot act, WOD, WOT, general wars etc. However, I have never seen an argument in favor of the Fed. Everyone I've ever talked to or even heard falls into one of two categories: a) they have no idea what the fed is (vast majority) or b) they oppose it. Besides those slimeball bankers actually profiting from it, is there any essayist, commentator or pundit who displays a good understanding of what the fed is, and still argues in favor of it?

Vessol
07-06-2011, 08:39 PM
A lot use the scare tactics and greatly exaggerated stories of "bank runs" of the late 19th century. Saying that it is needed to "stabilize" the market.

Napoleon's Shadow
07-06-2011, 08:40 PM
There is a book out there called "In Fed We Trust".

Travlyr
07-06-2011, 08:43 PM
Kind of old but this debate between Ron Paul and Charles Partee is a pretty good.

Gold versus Discretion: Ron Paul Debates Charles Partee

This debate on the Gold Standard features Congressman Ron Paul and Charles Partee, member of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors. Presented at the Mises Institute's first conference, November 16-17, 1983: The Gold Standard, An Austrian Perspective.


http://www.youtube.com/misesmedia#p/search/0/kcm8VvBcUdE

TheViper
07-06-2011, 08:43 PM
I like to inform myself on the views of the other side. I've read countless passionate arguments (usually based almost entirely on cowardice) in favor of the patriot act, WOD, WOT, general wars etc. However, I have never seen an argument in favor of the Fed. Everyone I've ever talked to or even heard falls into one of two categories: a) they have no idea what the fed is (vast majority) or b) they oppose it. Besides those slimeball bankers actually profiting from it, is there any essayist, commentator or pundit who displays a good understanding of what the fed is, and still argues in favor of it?
See, that's a paradox. If they understood it, they wouldn't be in favor for it unless they fell into your initial category.

The majority of the 'For' arguments will be centered around keeping the currency and the markets stabilized and taking action when recessions hit.

PaulConventionWV
07-06-2011, 09:02 PM
I like to inform myself on the views of the other side. I've read countless passionate arguments (usually based almost entirely on cowardice) in favor of the patriot act, WOD, WOT, general wars etc. However, I have never seen an argument in favor of the Fed. Everyone I've ever talked to or even heard falls into one of two categories: a) they have no idea what the fed is (vast majority) or b) they oppose it. Besides those slimeball bankers actually profiting from it, is there any essayist, commentator or pundit who displays a good understanding of what the fed is, and still argues in favor of it?

I think you'd be surprised how many people support the Fed. I'll give you a hint. Most of them are Keynesians and think the economy should be regulated, but not by the government.

Slutter McGee
07-06-2011, 09:05 PM
I am a monetarist. While I don't believe the FED is the solution, I do believe that controlling the supply of money is necessary. Inflation is always a monetary phenomenon. So in the words of Friedman, give us a computer that ignores politics. Or something like that.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

Travlyr
07-06-2011, 09:10 PM
I am a monetarist. While I don't believe the FED is the solution, I do believe that controlling the supply of money is necessary. Inflation is always a monetary phenomenon. So in the words of Friedman, give us a computer that ignores politics. Or something like that.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

I'm with you, as long as, I'm the one controlling it. Otherwise, whoever controls it is the master and that sucks for everybody else.

Honest Sound Money FTW!

IDefendThePlatform
07-06-2011, 09:16 PM
I'm with you, as long as, I'm the one controlling it. Otherwise, whoever controls it is the master and that sucks for everybody else.

Honest Sound Money FTW!

+1

http://www.facebook.com/CompetitionInCurrency

Freedom 4 all
07-07-2011, 02:19 PM
See, that's a paradox. If they understood it, they wouldn't be in favor for it unless they fell into your initial category.


Not necessarily. A lot of people who don't profit in any way from all sorts of evil things such as high taxes, drug laws, gun control, war, etc. still support those things.

Sola_Fide
07-07-2011, 02:23 PM
I am a monetarist. While I don't believe the FED is the solution, I do believe that controlling the supply of money is necessary. Inflation is always a monetary phenomenon. So in the words of Friedman, give us a computer that ignores politics. Or something like that.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

So, is the solution to inflation more centralized control, or more competing un-inflated currencies?

Sincerely,

AquaBuddha2010

TheViper
07-07-2011, 08:19 PM
Not necessarily. A lot of people who don't profit in any way from all sorts of evil things such as high taxes, drug laws, gun control, war, etc. still support those things.
Then you have point B which is they don't understand it. Point A was they are profiting from it.

DamianTV
07-08-2011, 03:14 AM
Arguments for the Fed? I cant think of any ones that are good for the People. The only ones I can think of are "good" for the Politicians and their croneys.

Travlyr
07-08-2011, 09:47 AM
Arguments for the Fed? I cant think of any ones that are good for the People. The only ones I can think of are "good" for the Politicians and their croneys.

That's right ... central banks are tools of rulers.


"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes such as mine will disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money and control credit." - Sir Josiah Stamp 1920 - Director of Bank of England

RokiLothbard
07-08-2011, 11:32 AM
One argument is that "as production increases, the money supply should increase proportionally." This isn't an argument as much as a bald assertion. But it clicks with so many people's intution that they've often accepted it as given with being able to tell you why they believe it.

You could read "Optimum Quantity of Money" by Milton Friedman to try to understand this thinking, although all I could get out of it, was that he too accepts the unquestioned premise from above, and then he does lots of math based on it, which I'm sure is correct at least in axiomatic framework in which it's based.

DamianTV
07-08-2011, 04:27 PM
This is also why Democracy fails.

When people go to see a Magic Show, like David Copperfield, they expect to see something that they know they will most likely not understand. When Politicians do their own form of "Magic", the general majority of people don't understand how they pulled it off but are impressed with the results. However, the results of Magic in hands of the Politicians is always to their benefit and not to ours. Look! More money! Sounds like a great thing to the average man, unless they understand how the trick works. The average person can not for the life of them comprehend that having More Money causes its value to go down, they just think More Money, and fail to grasp at the idea that means Worth Less than its previous value. When we ask these types of people, we will end up with the Majority of those polled responding that "More Money is Good" regardless of its consequences. And Democracy takes away from the Minority that do understand until neither side has anything left.

Teaser Rate
07-08-2011, 07:04 PM
We need the Fed to promote a stable environment for firms and consumers to want to do business in.

Without the Fed working to smooth over the business cycle and to keep the inflation rate low and stable, we'd have a lot more volatility and less growth in the economy.

RokiLothbard
07-08-2011, 07:28 PM
We need the Fed to promote a stable environment for firms and consumers to want to do business in.

Without the Fed working to smooth over the business cycle and to keep the inflation rate low and stable, we'd have a lot more volatility and less growth in the economy.

But this argument is immediately self-defeating, at least partially. The Fed is what makes inflation. I don't think Bernanke himself would dispute this, if presssed. I guess the part about "more growth" though is probably a claim made by Fed supporters. I consider that mostly the same as the "optimum quantity of money" argument that I referenced earlier though.

DamianTV
07-08-2011, 07:41 PM
We need the Fed to promote a stable environment for firms and consumers to want to do business in.

Without the Fed working to smooth over the business cycle and to keep the inflation rate low and stable, we'd have a lot more volatility and less growth in the economy.

I dont think anyone here can actually say that they have lived in a country without a Central Bank controlling its government from within. However, if any of us did, we would probably be much better off and that would greatly upset our shadowy Puppet Masters as we would be the ones who Had, and the Banks would be the ones that Had Naught.

Travlyr
07-09-2011, 07:18 AM
We need the Fed to promote a stable environment for firms and consumers to want to do business in.

Without the Fed working to smooth over the business cycle and to keep the inflation rate low and stable, we'd have a lot more volatility and less growth in the economy.

I hope they hurry up and do it.

acptulsa
07-09-2011, 07:48 AM
There hasn't been one since William Jennings Bryan gave his 'Cross of Gold' speech some one hundred twenty years ago. And the reason why is all they can do is point out why the cure is worse than the disease.

Why can't we be like everyone else and take it on Holy Faith? We're so bad.

DamianTV
07-09-2011, 04:46 PM
Most of it has to do with the idea of Intellectual Submission. The Govt will stand around and tell you that it is "Qualified" and "You Are Not Qualified" unless you get a piece of paper, usually a Certificate, a Diploma, a Degree, or something that "Qualifies" that person as intelligent enough. Truth be told, the ones we have in office are Not Qualified to Clean a Toilet Stall, yet they stand there and repeatedly tell everyone that "They Know Better Than You". If everyone is told the same lie repeatedly forever, a certain percentage of people will start to believe that Lie, regardless of what the lie is. Usually, the bigger the lie, the easier it is to get away with.

Intellectual Submission is in EVERY aspect of our lives. You are not qualified to do jack shit without permission. You cant figure out Govt Finances without some sort of Qualification, but that usually requires school. To a certain extent, this is True, and this is False. A person cant figure out Govt Finances if they cant do Basic Math. But on the idea of Intellectual Submission, you are NEVER Qualified until someone else tells you that you are. You're not Qualified to get that Job, you're not qualified to hook up your DVR to your TV, you're not even Qualified to educate yourself, or your children. It all boils down to one thing. Intellectual Submission. People believe that they are Not Qualified to handle even the mundane aspects of their lives, because every other form of interaction between human beings in business Mandates some form of Submission. Employees submit to their Employers, Buyers submit to prices set by those that pay the Employees Wages, but lets go a little deeper down the Rabbit Hole. You are also Not Qualified to know if the lable on the back of the Food that you are buying is "Healthy" or not. Hell, most of us don't even understand most of the ingredients in the foods.

So having been brainwashed constantly in every aspect of our lives into thinking that we are Not Qualified to wipe our own asses, when the Govt comes along and tries to tell us that We Are Not Qualified to fix this country's financial problems, we believe them. Them of course refers to anyone in Office. But they have a loophole that we dont. A loophole that they have placed their heads through and the loophole tightens into a noose around their necks. Advisors. Their Advisors feed the Elected Officials a Healthy Diet of Bullshit until they believe it. They BeLIEve the LIE. They BeLIEve the FED is GOOD for the Country. They BeLIEve the Fed is Good for the Country because They, and only They are Qualified to make those kinds of Decisions, when in reality, they are not making the decisions at all. Their Advisors make ALL of their Decisions for them, and of course the Advisors will tell them that the Fed is Good. We need only understand that They, our "Elected Officials", Senators, Congressmen, etc, are the ones that really are Not Qualified to Run This Country.

Teaser Rate
07-09-2011, 04:51 PM
But this argument is immediately self-defeating, at least partially. The Fed is what makes inflation. I don't think Bernanke himself would dispute this, if presssed. I guess the part about "more growth" though is probably a claim made by Fed supporters. I consider that mostly the same as the "optimum quantity of money" argument that I referenced earlier though.

Inflation was a much bigger problem before 1913 than it was after it. The Fed does not create inflation, it just stabilizes its rate to limit the damage it does to the economy.


I dont think anyone here can actually say that they have lived in a country without a Central Bank controlling its government from within. However, if any of us did, we would probably be much better off and that would greatly upset our shadowy Puppet Masters as we would be the ones who Had, and the Banks would be the ones that Had Naught.

No offense, but I think you're really paranoid if you believe that shadowy Puppet Masters control our government through central banking.

Sola_Fide
07-09-2011, 04:58 PM
Inflation was a much bigger problem before 1913 than it was after it. The Fed does not create inflation, it just stabilizes its rate to limit the damage it does to the economy.



No offense, but I think you're really paranoid if you believe that shadowy Puppet Masters control our government through central banking.

*stares in amazement*