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Matthew Zak
07-05-2011, 11:44 AM
http://www.salon.com/life/pinched/2009/12/06/living_in_a_van


I live in a van down by Duke University

How do I afford grad school without going into debt? A '94 Econoline, bulk food and creative civil disobedience



I was lying on the floor of my van where the middle pilot chairs used to be, trying to hide from view. This is it, I thought. They know. I'm going to get kicked out of Duke.

Moments before, I had been cooking a pot of spaghetti stew on top of a plastic, three-drawer storage container, which held all my food and my few meager possessions. I figured the campus security guard had parked next to me because he spotted the blue flame from my propane stove through the van's tinted windows and shades.

I held my breath as he shut off the engine and opened his door. I was in my boxer shorts, splayed across my stain-speckled carpet like a scarecrow toppled by the wind.

As I listened to what sounded like a pair of Gestapo jackboots approach the driver-side door, I thought about how I'd almost gotten away with it. For two whole months, I had been secretly living in my van on campus.

For some, van-dwelling may conjure images of pop-culture losers forced into desperate measures during troubled times: losers like Uncle Rico from "Napoleon Dynamite," or "Saturday Night Live's" Chris Farley who'd famously exclaim, "I live in a van down by the river!" before crashing through a coffee table, or perhaps the once ubiquitous inhabitants of multicolored VW buses, welcoming strangers with complimentary coke lines and invitations to writhing, hairy, back-seat orgies.

In my van there were no orgies or coke lines, no overweight motivational speakers. To me, the van was what Kon-Tiki was to Heyerdahl, what the GMC van was to the A-Team, what Walden was to Thoreau. It was an adventure.

Living in a van was my grand social experiment. I wanted to see if I could -- in an age of rampant consumerism and fiscal irresponsibility -- afford the unaffordable: an education.

I pledged that I wouldn't take out loans. Nor would I accept money from anybody, especially my mother, who, appalled by my experiment, offered to rent me an apartment each time I called home. My heat would be a sleeping bag; my air conditioning, an open window. I'd shower at the gym, eat the bare minimum and find a job to pay tuition. And -- for fear of being caught -- I wouldn't tell anybody.

Living on the cheap wasn't merely a way to save money and stave off debt; I wanted to live adventurously. I wanted to test my limits. I wanted to find the line between my wants and my needs. I wanted, as Thoreau put it, "to live so sturdily and Spartan-like as to put to rout all that was not life … to drive life into a corner, and reduce it to its lowest terms."

It wouldn't be hard for me to remain frugal. After buying the van and making my first tuition payment, I was only a few dollars away from having to rummage through Dumpsters to find my next meal. I was -- by conventional first-world definitions -- poor. While I faced little risk of malnutrition or disease like the truly poor, I still I didn't own an iPod, and I smelled sometimes.

My experiment began in the spring semester of 2009 when I enrolled in the graduate liberal studies department. Months before, I had just finished paying off $32,000 in undergraduate student loans -- no easy feat for an English major.

To pay off my debt, I'd found jobs that provided free room and board. I moved to Coldfoot, Alaska -- 60 miles north of the Arctic Circle and 250 from the nearest store -- where I worked as a lodge cleaner, a tour guide and a cook. Later, I worked on a trail crew in Mississippi in an AmeriCorps program. Between jobs I hitchhiked more than 7,000 miles to avoid paying airfare. When I couldn't find work, I moved in with friends. My clothes came from donation bins, I had friends cut my hair, and I'd pick up odd jobs when I could. Nearly every dime I made went into my loans.

I hated my debt more than anything. I dragged it with me wherever I went. While I was still leading an exciting, adventurous life, I knew I could never truly be free until my debt was gone.

I finally got out of the red when I landed a well-paying job with the Park Service as a backcountry ranger. Finally, after two and a half years of work, my debt was gone. I had four grand in the bank that was mine. All mine. It was the first time I had actual money that hadn't been borrowed or given to me since I was a 13-year-old paperboy.

The more money I had borrowed, I came to realize, the more freedom I had surrendered. Yet, I still considered my education -- as costly as it was -- to be priceless. So now, motivated to go back to school yet determined not to go back into debt, I had to think outside the box. Or, as Henry David Thoreau might suggest, inside one.

In "Walden," Thoreau mentioned a 6 foot-by-3 foot box he had seen by the railroad in which laborers locked up their tools at night. A man could live comfortably in one of these boxes, he thought. Nor would he have to borrow money and surrender freedom to afford a "larger and more luxurious box."

And so: I decided to buy a van. Though I had never lived in one, I knew I had the personality for it. I had a penchant for rugged living, a sixth sense for cheapness, and an unequaled tolerance for squalor.

My first order of business upon moving to Duke was to find my "Walden on Wheels." After a two-hour bus ride into the North Carolinian countryside, I caught sight of the '94 Ford Econoline that I had found advertised on Craigslist. Googly-eyed, I sauntered up to it and lovingly trailed fingertips over dents and chipped paint. The classy cabernet sauvignon veneer at the top slowly, sensuously faded downward into lustrous black. I got behind the wheel and revved up the fuel-funneling beast. There was a grumble, a cough, then a smooth and steady mechanical growl. It was big, it was beautiful, and -- best of all -- it was $1,500.

I bought it immediately. So began what I'd call "radical living."

I removed the two middle pilot chairs to create a living space, installed a coat hook, and spent $5 on a sheet of black cloth to hang behind my front and passenger seats so that -- between the sheet, tinted windows, and shades -- no one would be able to see me inside. I neatly folded my clothes into a suitcase, and I hung up my dress shirts and pants on another hook I screwed into the wall.

I at first failed to notice the TV and VCR (that I would never use) placed between the two front chairs. Nor did I know about the 12-disc CD changer hiding under the passenger seat until weeks later.

Just when I thought I had uncovered all the van's secrets, I found a mysterious button toward the back. When I pushed it, the back seat grumbled, vibrated and -- much to my jubilation -- began slowly transforming into a bed. I half-expected to see a disco ball descend from the ceiling and hear '70s porn music blare from the speakers.

Fortuitously, I was assigned a parking lot in a remote area on campus next to a cluster of apartments where I hoped campus security would presume I lived.

Over time, my van felt less like a novelty and more like a home. At night I was whirred to sleep by crescendos of cicadas. In the morning, I awoke to a medley of birdsong so loud and cheery you would have thought my little hermitage was tucked away in a copse of trees. During rainstorms, I listened to millions of raindrops drum against the roof and watched them wiggle like sperm down my windows.

I loved cooking in the van. As an adept backcountry camper, I could easily whip up an assortment of economical and delicious meals on my backpacking stove. For breakfast, cereal with powdered milk and oatmeal with peanut butter became staples; for dinner, spaghetti stew with peanut butter, vegetable stew with peanut butter, and even rice and bean tacos with peanut butter. Without proper refrigeration, I cut out meat, dairy and beer from my diet entirely. I became leaner, got sick less and had more energy than ever before.



By buying food in bulk I reduced my food bill to $4.34 cents a day. I was meticulous with my expenditures. I saved every receipt and wrote down everything I bought. Not including tuition, I lived (and lived comfortably) on $103 a week, which covered my necessities: food, gas, car insurance, a cellphone and visits to the laundromat.

The idea of "thrift," once an American ideal, now seems almost quaint to many college students, particularly those at elite schools. The typical student today is not so frugal. Few know where the money they're spending is coming from and even fewer know how deep they're in debt. They're detached from the source of their money. That's because there is no source. They're getting paid by their future selves.

My "radical living" experiment convinced me that the things plunging students further into debt -- the iPhones, designer clothes, and even "needs" like heat and air conditioning, for instance -- were by no means "necessary." And I found it easier to "do without" than I ever thought it would be. Easier by far than the jobs I'd been forced to take in order to pay off my loans.

Most undergrads imagine they'll effortlessly pay off their loans when they start getting paid the big bucks; they're living in a state of denial, disregarding the implications of a tough job market and how many extra years of work their spending sprees have sentenced them to. But "facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored," as Aldous Huxley famously said.

I have sympathy for my fellow students. I did many of the same things when I was an undergrad. Plus, escaping student debt -- no matter how frugal they try to be -- is nearly impossible. Even if they do resort to purchasing a large creepy van, most will still have to go tens of thousands of dollars into debt to pay for tuition.

While I found a way to afford graduate school, I by no means had the same financial responsibilities as the average student. I was so poor when I applied that my department took pity on me and significantly reduced the cost of my tuition. I even found a well-paying part-time job working for a government-sponsored program, tutoring inner-city kids.

Governments and financial aid departments normally aren't so helpful. For decades, the government has let legions of college students -- students who wished to better themselves and contribute to society -- go into soul-crippling debt. Schools don't make it any easier with steep hikes in tuition and baffling room and board costs. Students are oftentimes forced to pay for insanely priced meal plans and are barred from moving to cheaper housing off-campus. At Duke, the cheapest on-campus meal plan charges them 3.5 times more a day than it cost to feed me. Their dorm rooms cost 18 times more than my parking permit.

Here, the average undergraduate student who's taken out loans graduates with more than $23,000 in debt -- about the national average. The cost of education at Duke, as at most schools across the country, is disgracefully high. Tuition costs (not factoring in financial aid) more than $37,000 a year. Additionally, students have to pay at least another $10,000 for books, meal plans, fees and dorms.

Duke's egregiously hefty price tag is no anomaly. Nor is it unusual for students to unflinchingly take out massive loans that'll take them years, sometimes decades, to pay off. Willingness to go into debt, of course, isn't just confined to students; we're a nation in debt, collectively and individually. Going into debt today is as American as the 40-hour work week; or the stampede of Wal-Mart warriors on Black Friday; or the hillocks of gifts under a Christmas tree. An army of loan drones we've become, marching from one unpaid-for purchase to the next in quest of a sense of fulfillment that fades long before the bill arrives. We're little different from the Spanish explorers who dedicated their lives to the quest for El Dorado, which was always just around the next bend in the river, yet never there at all.

I refused to join those ranks. I became a deserter, an eccentric, an outsider. At Duke, I felt like an ascetic in the midst of wealth, a heretic in the Church of the Consumer. I had to hide.

Because I was so paranoid about campus security finding out about my experiment, I kept myself apart from other students. Whenever I did talk with a fellow classmate, I found myself souring the conversation with preposterous lies -- lies I'd tell to protect myself. Whenever someone asked me where I lived, I'd say "off campus," or I'd make up an address before changing the subject. I found it easier to avoid people altogether.

I worried that if students caught wind of my experiment, a Facebook group would be created for "People who've had a confirmed sighting of the campus van-dweller." Campus security would find out, deem my lodgings illegal and promptly kick me out of the van and into some conventional and unaffordable style of living, wherein I'd have to buy a rug to tie the room together.

Deprived of human companionship, I cloistered myself in my van and in libraries where I was alone with my thoughts and my books. Time for self-reflection, study and solitude was what I thought I'd wanted all along.

But of all the things that I gave up for "radical living," I found it fitting that the one thing I wanted most was that which couldn't be bought. When a trio of laughing males drunkenly stumbled past my van, probably hoisting one another up like injured comrades after battle, I thought of my friends back home. On winter nights, when the windows were coated with a frosty glaze, I'd wish for a woman to share the warmth of my sleeping bag.

While I have plenty of good things to say about simplicity, living in a van wasn't all high-minded idealism in action. Washing dishes became so troublesome I stopped altogether, letting specks of dried spaghetti sauce and globs of peanut butter season the next meal. There was no place to go to the bathroom at night. I never figured out exactly where to put my dirty laundry. Once, when a swarm of ants overtook my storage containers, I tossed and turned all night, imagining them spelunking into my orifices like cave divers while I slept. New, strange, unidentifiable smells greeted me each evening. Upon opening the side doors, a covey of odors would escape from the van like spirits unleashed from a cursed ark.

But no adventure is without bouts of loneliness, discomfort and the ubiquitous threat of food poisoning. I loved my van. Because of it, I could afford grad school. So naturally I was nervous as I listened to the security guard's weapons jingle as he ambled by my windshield.

But he just kept walking.

I was overcome by an odd sense of dissatisfaction. Deep down, I think I wanted him to discover me. I wanted a showdown. I wanted to wave my arms at the dean and cry, "Impound my van? Over my dead body! I'll take you straight to the Supreme Court!" Fellow students would rally behind me. We'd stage car-dwelling protests and after winning back my right to remain voluntarily poor, people would begin to consider me the campus sage. I'd wear loose white clothing, grow my beard, and speak in aphorisms to the underclassmen who journeyed the mile on foot to my sacred parking space where I'd serve them tea.

Today I still live in the van. I haven't taken out loans or borrowed money from anyone. Really, the only thing that's different is that I've set up my laundry area by the passenger seat. Also, after another summer with the Park Service, I have more money than I possibly need. Now, instead of being poor, I am radically frugal. Sometimes, though, I think it would be nice to have an ironing board, plumbing and a wood stove.

It would be nice. A middle-class family might think it would be nice to have an in-ground swimming pool. A millionaire might think it would be nice to have a yacht. The billionaire, a private jet. Someone, somewhere might think it would be nice to have food to feed her family tonight. Someone, somewhere might think it would be nice to live in a van in order to afford to go to a wonderful school. I could begin satisfying my desires and buying comforts, but I've learned to appreciate what little I have instead of longing for what I do not.

Admittedly, now that I have money I buy the fancy peanut butter from Whole Foods, and I've even purchased an expensive pair of hiking boots. But most things are the same: I still cook spartan meals, I don't have an iPod, and I park in the very same spot. And I still have my secret. Well, that is, until now.

Anti Federalist
07-05-2011, 11:59 AM
That was a great read, thanks for posting.

This made me LOL:


Just when I thought I had uncovered all the van's secrets, I found a mysterious button toward the back. When I pushed it, the back seat grumbled, vibrated and -- much to my jubilation -- began slowly transforming into a bed. I half-expected to see a disco ball descend from the ceiling and hear '70s porn music blare from the speakers.

dannno
07-05-2011, 12:01 PM
In my van there were no orgies

...

the iPhones, designer clothes, and even "needs" like heat and air conditioning, for instance -- were by no means "necessary." And I found it easier to "do without" than I ever thought it would be.

...

On winter nights, when the windows were coated with a frosty glaze, I'd wish for a woman to share the warmth of my sleeping bag.



SumsUpArticle

idirtify
07-05-2011, 12:03 PM
Didn’t read it all…but,

I hope he’s studying to become a writer. OTOH, who needs college when you can write like that?

Anti Federalist
07-05-2011, 12:03 PM
On winter nights, when the windows were coated with a frosty glaze, I'd wish for a woman to share the warmth of my sleeping bag.

Herein lies the Catch 22.

He's not likely to find a women to share his bag any time soon, living the way he is.

CaseyJones
07-05-2011, 12:07 PM
Herein lies the Catch 22.

He's not likely to find a women to share his bag any time soon, living the way he is.

you mean a trifling girl ... real women will see the man he is not the surroundings he is in

Anti Federalist
07-05-2011, 12:12 PM
you mean a trifling girl ... real women will see the man he is not the surroundings he is in

Let's hear from the RPF ladies:

Would you be able to see past the slightly smelly, eating off food encrusted dinnerware, exterior and see the man beneath?

Or blow him off as the creepy guy living in his van?

LoL

Matthew Zak
07-05-2011, 12:13 PM
Let's hear from the RPF ladies:

Would you be able to see past the slightly smelly, eating off food encrusted dinnerware, exterior and see the man beneath?

Or blow him off as the creepy guy living in his van?

LoL

Ironically, that Van may look like a mansion in 10 or 20 years.

heavenlyboy34
07-05-2011, 12:16 PM
Let's hear from the RPF ladies:

Would you be able to see past the slightly smelly, eating off food encrusted dinnerware, exterior and see the man beneath?

Or blow him off as the creepy guy living in his van?

LoL
lolz :) But college is about learning and experience, AF! ;)

dannno
07-05-2011, 12:23 PM
Didn’t read it all…but,

I hope he’s studying to become a writer. OTOH, who needs college when you can write like that?

He was an english major in his undergrad years, went back to college for his graduate degree.

dannno
07-05-2011, 12:24 PM
lolz :) But college is about learning and experience, AF! ;)

.....in bed

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
07-05-2011, 12:28 PM
http://www.salon.com/life/pinched/2009/12/06/living_in_a_van

As much of my time in college was spent living in a tent, I'm not going to feel sorry for you. In the end, you will receive a deeper education after all.
This is why the education provided for today's youth free of charge should be increased by two years of college to a total of at least fourteen years. We should also provide a place for our children to live until they are twenty-one years of age. This will improve our nations economy by keeping people from entering into the work force.
As they were meant to be owned by the people, state colleges are now controlled by tyrants. State colleges should be used to educate our youth and shouldn't be used by professional sports teams as minor league farm systems to provide players for their teams.

heavenlyboy34
07-05-2011, 12:34 PM
As much of my time in college was spent living in a tent, I'm not going to feel sorry for you. In the end, you will receive a deeper education after all.
This is why the education provided for today's youth free of charge should be increased by two years of college to a total of at least fourteen years. We should also provide a place for our children to live until they are twenty-one years of age. This will improve our nations economy by keeping people from entering into the work force.
As they were meant to be owned by the people, state colleges are now controlled by tyrants. State colleges should be used to educate our youth and shouldn't be used by professional sports teams as minor league farm systems to provide players for their teams.
Are you being serious? 1) Where will the money come from for "free" college (and housing until age 21)? 2) How does keeping people out of the workforce (thus preventing them from gaining real world skills) improve the economy?

Nate-ForLiberty
07-05-2011, 12:35 PM
All that to get a degree that will be useless in this job market? . . . didn't quite think that one through did he?

Also, if he wants to test his spartan like limits, why do it at a nice university? Why put your classmates through the hell of having to smell you and put up with your egocentric experiment? I wish he'd gotten caught. Then he could test his spartan like existence when he sues the school and has to pay his lawyer fees. There is a better way to protest outrageous tuition fees, ...don't go to a university.

It would be one thing if his family lived in poverty and he was working his way out, but it sounded like there was plenty of money there to get a studio apartment off campus. Or even just rent someone's basement.

I don't have any warm fuzzies for this guy. The whole way through I kept thinking, "eww".

flightlesskiwi
07-05-2011, 12:36 PM
Let's hear from the RPF ladies:

Would you be able to see past the slightly smelly, eating off food encrusted dinnerware, exterior and see the man beneath?

Or blow him off as the creepy guy living in his van?

LoL

hmm. this is an interesting question. if he had actual self-reliant wilderness and homesteading survival skills (tracking, hunting, fishing, farming, gathering, finding and building shelter, etc etc), i'd be much more likely to consider him, shower or no.

my opinion from reading his blurb, this guy seems to consider government/society-encouraged "higher education" more of a priority than i ever would, and he seems to be totally fine living a transient lifestyle, so any sort of compatibility between us would be strained or non-existent.

angelatc
07-05-2011, 12:39 PM
Let's hear from the RPF ladies:

Would you be able to see past the slightly smelly, eating off food encrusted dinnerware, exterior and see the man beneath?

Or blow him off as the creepy guy living in his van?

LoL

I drive the same year and model van he's living in. Mine isn't so nice though - the fold down bed in the back isn't electric in mine.

If I met him in class and he didn't stink, and he told me that he was living in his van in order to graduate debt free from college, I'd be worried that he would use me as a tool to enable him. Until a person, man or woman, is happy with where they are in life it is a bad idea to hook up with them. The man he is isn't the same as the man he will become. So to answer your question, no, I wouldn't fuck him.

He's in grad school because he's not content with the money he would make with just a bachelor's degree. I'm guessing he's a liberal arts major.

I graduated with no student debt and I didn't have to live in a van to do it.

AuH20
07-05-2011, 12:42 PM
The way I see it, this guy's just ahead of the curve.

angelatc
07-05-2011, 12:43 PM
It would be one thing if his family lived in poverty and he was working his way out, but it sounded like there was plenty of money there to get a studio apartment off campus. Or even just rent someone's basement.

.

Exactly. The Asians move here put 10 families in a single house, and live comfortably while staying debt free. A roommate or two in a dive apartment with running water is not much more expensive than his propane bill.

And there are a lot of corporations who will pay for your college if you work there. Beginning in my junior year, that's the avenue I pursued.

dannno
07-05-2011, 12:44 PM
So to answer your question, no, I would fuck him.

Might want to edit that :)

angelatc
07-05-2011, 12:44 PM
Might want to edit that :)

I just did! :)

pcosmar
07-05-2011, 12:49 PM
Let's hear from the RPF ladies:

Would you be able to see past the slightly smelly, eating off food encrusted dinnerware, exterior and see the man beneath?


LoL
My wife did. ;)

That was the second thing that impressed me about her.
I didn't scare her. ( I told her my real name and the warrants for my arrest)

When we met I had a backpack of all my belongings and an alias.

steph3n
07-05-2011, 12:54 PM
What is the use of college to suffer such, and still have no job or meaning when done with the graduate degree?

Anti Federalist
07-05-2011, 01:00 PM
My wife did. ;)

That was the second thing that impressed me about her.
I didn't scare her. ( I told her my real name and the warrants for my arrest)

When we met I had a backpack of all my belongings and an alias.

I was on the lam from the IRS and Broadzilla, one step away from living in my truck.

Mrs AF still busts my chops about that truck, it was blue with gray primer spots.

She thought it was a hippy mural with clouds. LoL

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
07-05-2011, 02:24 PM
Are you being serious? 1) Where will the money come from for "free" college (and housing until age 21)? 2) How does keeping people out of the workforce (thus preventing them from gaining real world skills) improve the economy?

State universities were created towards the end of World War 2 to keep returning veterans from reentering too soon into what was at that time a booming economy. After fifty years of economic depressions and thirty years of a Great Depression, there was real fear our nation's economy was once again about to tank. As soldiers have died for this nation and as even far more workers have died building the foundation of its economy, teachers can certainly do their part as well.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
07-05-2011, 02:35 PM
All that to get a degree that will be useless in this job market? . . . didn't quite think that one through did he?

Also, if he wants to test his spartan like limits, why do it at a nice university? Why put your classmates through the hell of having to smell you and put up with your egocentric experiment? I wish he'd gotten caught. Then he could test his spartan like existence when he sues the school and has to pay his lawyer fees. There is a better way to protest outrageous tuition fees, ...don't go to a university.

It would be one thing if his family lived in poverty and he was working his way out, but it sounded like there was plenty of money there to get a studio apartment off campus. Or even just rent someone's basement.

I don't have any warm fuzzies for this guy. The whole way through I kept thinking, "eww".

And, yet, he was living better than our Founding Fathers, living better than all those noble Native Americans that the long haired professors like going on about, and living better than all those poor homeless people who the social cognitive scientists could use their influence to have housed in the air conditioned hallways of the institututions of higher learning.
Wouldn't you be willing to walk around a sleeping homeless person if taking such a nickels worth of effort amounted to a little bit of happiness?
Look, to put it bluntly, we need to quit shitting and pissing in the water. We need to quit taking so many bathes. We are wasting water. We blame so much nonsense on BP when we shit and piss in the water.
For cripes sake, toughen up! You remind me of our ancestors who first came over here from Europe. Learn to grow something. Get a little dirt under your fingernails.

Vessol
07-05-2011, 02:41 PM
I loved in a van for roughly around a month after I moved to NC. The author in the OP makes it sound much more glorious and great than it actually is.

Food storage can be a major issue. You're limited to how much you can buy and where to store it when you live in such a small space, a lot of food will spoil quickly. He's also lucky in the fact that a shower was only a short walk to the gym for him. I personally had to go to the houses of co-workers who were nice enough to let me use their showers. My employer was probably the best, he'd offer me and my family one free meal on the job. Good authentic Italian too.

I'm sorry, but if he wants to live in a van, go for it. I don't want a mansion or anything, but I do prefer having my own insulated room where I can have some privacy and space to walk and move around.

speciallyblend
07-05-2011, 02:41 PM
there is a girl at a widespread show just waiting for this guy;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM-2pRRHhU4&playnext=1&list=PL6E9AE84FB38AF774
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM-2pRRHhU4&playnext=1&list=PL6E9AE84FB38AF774

specialK
07-05-2011, 02:43 PM
Let's hear from the RPF ladies:

Would you be able to see past the slightly smelly, eating off food encrusted dinnerware, exterior and see the man beneath?



With someone who writes like that? You bet. But then again, I lived that way myself in Mexico for a few weeks, so I can relate somewhat.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
07-05-2011, 02:45 PM
I drive the same year and model van he's living in. Mine isn't so nice though - the fold down bed in the back isn't electric in mine.

If I met him in class and he didn't stink, and he told me that he was living in his van in order to graduate debt free from college, I'd be worried that he would use me as a tool to enable him. Until a person, man or woman, is happy with where they are in life it is a bad idea to hook up with them. The man he is isn't the same as the man he will become. So to answer your question, no, I wouldn't fuck him.

He's in grad school because he's not content with the money he would make with just a bachelor's degree. I'm guessing he's a liberal arts major.

I graduated with no student debt and I didn't have to live in a van to do it.

But would you take the trouble to give him a massage and teach him how to meditate? You know, there are other ways to enjoy yourselves besides twiddling around with your wee wees. I've found that giving sex to a woman real easy is always a big mistake as then it becomes the standard. From then on, its will always be less than three minutes, a lot less effort, and a lot less technique.

speciallyblend
07-05-2011, 02:48 PM
I loved in a van for roughly around a month after I moved to NC. The author in the OP makes it sound much more glorious and great than it actually is.

Food storage can be a major issue. You're limited to how much you can buy and where to store it when you live in such a small space, a lot of food will spoil quickly. He's also lucky in the fact that a shower was only a short walk to the gym for him. I personally had to go to the houses of co-workers who were nice enough to let me use their showers. My employer was probably the best, he'd offer me and my family one free meal on the job. Good authentic Italian too.

I'm sorry, but if he wants to live in a van, go for it. I don't want a mansion or anything, but I do prefer having my own insulated room where I can have some privacy and space to walk and move around.

i hear ya but in tough times it is a luxury;) reminds me of this movie once again;) as i invest in a camper;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFyVs_766S4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFyVs_766S4

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
07-05-2011, 02:52 PM
I loved in a van for roughly around a month after I moved to NC. The author in the OP makes it sound much more glorious and great than it actually is.

Food storage can be a major issue. You're limited to how much you can buy and where to store it when you live in such a small space, a lot of food will spoil quickly. He's also lucky in the fact that a shower was only a short walk to the gym for him. I personally had to go to the houses of co-workers who were nice enough to let me use their showers. My employer was probably the best, he'd offer me and my family one free meal on the job. Good authentic Italian too.

I'm sorry, but if he wants to live in a van, go for it. I don't want a mansion or anything, but I do prefer having my own insulated room where I can have some privacy and space to walk and move around.

Every state university should have a reservation set aside for poor students to return to nature where they can live in tents and tee pees. This is one way of getting universities away from banking institutions and back to the educational institutions they were originally meant to be. Now, having the football players and other atheletes coming around to bully you as they liked doing back in highschool will always be a problem. But life will always have its problems and solving them is why universities were invented in the first place.

Nate-ForLiberty
07-05-2011, 03:12 PM
State universities were created towards the end of World War 2 to keep returning veterans from reentering too soon into what was at that time a booming economy. After fifty years of economic depressions and thirty years of a Great Depression, there was real fear our nation's economy was once again about to tank. As soldiers have died for this nation and as even far more workers have died building the foundation of its economy, teachers can certainly do their part as well.


And, yet, he was living better than our Founding Fathers, living better than all those noble Native Americans that the long haired professors like going on about, and living better than all those poor homeless people who the social cognitive scientists could use their influence to have housed in the air conditioned hallways of the institututions of higher learning.
Wouldn't you be willing to walk around a sleeping homeless person if taking such a nickels worth of effort amounted to a little bit of happiness?
Look, to put it bluntly, we need to quit shitting and pissing in the water. We need to quit taking so many bathes. We are wasting water. We blame so much nonsense on BP when we shit and piss in the water.
For cripes sake, toughen up! You remind me of our ancestors who first came over here from Europe. Learn to grow something. Get a little dirt under your fingernails.


But would you take the trouble to give him a massage and teach him how to meditate? You know, there are other ways to enjoy yourselves besides twiddling around with your wee wees. I've found that giving sex to a woman real easy is always a big mistake as then it becomes the standard. From then on, its will always be less than three minutes, a lot less effort, and a lot less technique.


Every state university should have a reservation set aside for poor students to return to nature where they can live in tents and tee pees. This is one way of getting universities away from banking institutions and back to the educational institutions they were originally meant to be. Now, having the football players and other atheletes coming around to bully you as they liked doing back in highschool will always be a problem. But life will always have its problems and solving them is why universities were invented in the first place.

I'm trying to understand all this, but my sober mind can't do it.

You on something?

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
07-05-2011, 03:16 PM
What is the use of college to suffer such, and still have no job or meaning when done with the graduate degree?

But that is the case with college, steph3n. Students have wrung up a trillion dollar student loan debt that will have to be paid off eventually as they are guaranteed by the Federal government. I was listening to students complain that they will have to be paying off their loans until retirement. Meanwhile, the education the students received aren't any good as they can't be utilized afterwards as any good paying job in the future will be factored in with all those other hard working profit enabling endeavors which cause pollution.
If you are going to school in the future, my advice to you is go to law school. If you go to law school, get into politics. They decide how much money to counterfeit in order to pay themselves!

dannno
07-05-2011, 03:25 PM
Every state university should have a reservation set aside for poor students to return to nature where they can live in tents and tee pees. This is one way of getting universities away from banking institutions and back to the educational institutions they were originally meant to be.

You can do that at UC Santa Cruz. They are surrounded by a huge forest. Some of the students build tree houses out in the woods, or just camp out there.

http://www.respectallbeings.com/images/treesit2web.jpg

The food commons all take their unused food to a special room where poor students can go get food. So if you can get your tuition paid, you can have free living expenses if you don't mind living in the woods and eating food that will soon expire.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
07-05-2011, 03:31 PM
I'm trying to understand all this, but my sober mind can't do it.

You on something?

What I see is about four paragraphs of about two thousand words responded to by a single question attacking my character.
But allow me to take the high road. First off, I'm for people being happy. This means like Friedrich Nietzsche, I'm not for people being miserable just because what is being claimed by tyranny is rational. It isn't a matter of whether logic is true, but that its use leads mankind to do what is not in his or her best interest.
Logic and rationality are secondary to me in comparison to the primary consideration of the American people's Civil Purpose. When speaking of the people, I'm not speaking as a victim, but as someone who was once a tyrant and is now converted over to serving them.
There are three kinds of education: The educated, the uneducated, and the diseducated. We receive many years of diseducation before entering into college.
I mean, just think about it for a second! If one is an advanced teacher, those beneath them must be diseducating the students. This is why universities offer basic classes. All these classes teach you is that you mostly learned the wrong thing in your lessor education.
Look, I could go on forever here about how our educational system is fast returning to the age of tyranny when dynasties of master classes ruled over slaves for thousands of years.

Vessol
07-05-2011, 03:35 PM
I'm trying to understand all this, but my sober mind can't do it.

You on something?

Headmashing the keyboard FTW.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
07-05-2011, 03:38 PM
You can do that at UC Santa Cruz. They are surrounded by a huge forest. Some of the students build tree houses out in the woods, or just camp out there.

http://www.respectallbeings.com/images/treesit2web.jpg

The food commons all take their unused food to a special room where poor students can go get food. So if you can get your tuition paid, you can have free living expenses if you don't mind living in the woods and eating food that will soon expire.

Yes, now this is what I'm talking about! Please, no one let the lawyers in on knowing this is going on. It has to be unconstitutional in some way!

dannno
07-05-2011, 03:41 PM
Yes, now this is what I'm talking about! Please, no one let the lawyers in on knowing this is going on. It has to be unconstitutional in some way!

I don't know if or how much it occurs anymore, I know it was happening 10 years ago and had been for some time.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
07-05-2011, 03:55 PM
I don't know if or how much it occurs anymore, I know it was happening 10 years ago and had been for some time.

This is great here as a state college is supposed to be of the people, by the people, for the people. Instead, our property has been obsconded by tyrants to serve as corporations of tyranny, by tyranny, for tyranny.
If Socrates was alive today, he would be active at the schools asking questions like, "What is school?" or "What is education?"

Vessol
07-05-2011, 04:02 PM
This is great here as a state college is supposed to be of the people, by the people, for the people. Instead, our property has been obsconded by tyrants to serve as corporations of tyranny, by tyranny, for tyranny.
If Socrates was alive today, he would be active at the schools asking questions like, "What is school?" or "What is education?"

Nothing is "of the people by the people for the people".

Stop repeating that marxist garbage.

All State Colleges are illegitimate operations run by funds gathered at gunpoint by armed thugs of the State.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
07-05-2011, 04:02 PM
Headmashing the keyboard FTW.

Feeling superior is a European trait. I'm an American. Better yet, I'm Texan. As such, I'm superior. Let me explain as this can certainly be quite puzzling. Our Sam Houston, the equivalent of George Washington, lived with the Native Americans for two years. When Sam Houston was invading the camp of Santa Anna, a prostitute was in his tent keeping him preoccupied with his pants down. As Texans, we refer to her as, "The Yellow Rose of Texas."
So, as Texans, we shouldn't look down on people who live in tents as we shouldn't look down real hard on ladies working the streets as prostitutes.
See, as a Texan, I don't feel superior because I know my state is superior.

heavenlyboy34
07-05-2011, 04:45 PM
Feeling superior is a European trait. I'm an American. Better yet, I'm Texan. As such, I'm superior. Let me explain as this can certainly be quite puzzling. Our Sam Houston, the equivalent of George Washington, lived with the Native Americans for two years. When Sam Houston was invading the camp of Santa Anna, a prostitute was in his tent keeping him preoccupied with his pants down. As Texans, we refer to her as, "The Yellow Rose of Texas."
So, as Texans, we shouldn't look down on people who live in tents as we shouldn't look down real hard on ladies working the streets as prostitutes.
See, as a Texan, I don't feel superior because I know my state is superior.
What is your state superior to? What is special about your plot of dirt surrounded by imaginary borders?

MelissaWV
07-05-2011, 05:26 PM
Let's hear from the RPF ladies:

Would you be able to see past the slightly smelly, eating off food encrusted dinnerware, exterior and see the man beneath?

Or blow him off as the creepy guy living in his van?

LoL

It depends. I don't fault people for things they can't help. Slovenly ways are often a symptom of something, so if someone has the means to wash their plate, but decides to be gross about it, that's a problem. Lots of folks have that problem even if they live in mansions, though :p I'm not sure I'd ever meet this theoretical van-denizen, but I'd at least strike up a conversation if I did. There's nothing wrong with talking to people, just vital to have your alarm bells loud and clear.

A guy living in his car does not necessarily mean he's a bum, a slob, crazy, drunk, or any other thing one can think up.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
07-05-2011, 07:44 PM
What is your state superior to? What is special about your plot of dirt surrounded by imaginary borders?

My state isn't superior, but special because of how our Texas founding fathers advanced what our U.S. Founding Fathers accomplished earlier. While the United States defeated the tyranny of Great Britain, my state of Texas defeated a tyrant from Mexico with a lot of help from a prostitute who, at the battle of San Jacinto, had the dictator distrated in a tent with his pants down.
The fact we are neglected down here, abandoned, and left to take care of ourselves is nothing new. Wasn't it the U.S. army who aided the Texas Rangers in winning the war with Mexico and not the other way around?

muzzled dogg
07-05-2011, 08:29 PM
I'm about ready to do this

madengr
07-05-2011, 08:33 PM
Great read. Thanks. I don't agree with his giving up beer. I would drink warm beer over no beer. Unfortunately beer that is tolerable warm is not the cheap pisswater. Will he still be living in the van with a PhD in English? At least he writes well.

dannno
07-05-2011, 11:15 PM
Great read. Thanks. I don't agree with his giving up beer. I would drink warm beer over no beer. Unfortunately beer that is tolerable warm is not the cheap pisswater. Will he still be living in the van with a PhD in English? At least he writes well.

I'd just go down the the liquor store and get a 40.. but you probably couldn't do it every night if you're working that hard to get your expenses down to around $4/day, maybe a couple times a week or so.

specsaregood
07-05-2011, 11:30 PM
//

Legend1104
07-06-2011, 12:10 AM
I can't believe no one posted this. This was the first thing that I thought of when I saw your title.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nhgfjrKi0o

PreDeadMan
07-06-2011, 12:33 AM
"Twas the night before Christmas, and all through the van, Your ol' buddy Matt fell asleep behind the can. His children were nestled two time zones away, With his first wife and her husband, in sunny L.A. Matt woke up and realzied with a chill and a quiver That he was living in a van down by the river!"

Joey Fuller
07-06-2011, 03:05 AM
awesome

Suzu
07-06-2011, 08:29 AM
Let's hear from the RPF ladies: Would you be able to see past the slightly smelly, eating off food encrusted dinnerware, exterior and see the man beneath? Or blow him off as the creepy guy living in his van?


At the very least, I would give him a list of suggestions for more comfortable van living.

First of all, he should have bought a cargo van - that is, one without side windows in the back, and having only the driver and passenger seats - for greater privacy and added space. Then all he would need for curtains would be one behind the front seats and one over the back windows.

A platform bed running width-wise across the back of the van provides a ton of storage space underneath. Also, a 2" dowel with half of each end chiseled off like so:

_______________________
|
|______
|||||||||
|||||||||_______________


can be inserted neatly into the Econoline's inner frame where the sidewalls and roof meet, for hanging clothes. I had mine just inside the rear doors. Curtains there kept the sun from fading the colors.

I built a cooking area behind the driver's seat, consisting of countertop, two-burner propane stove, and rack space. Underneath were the 5-gallon propane tank (each fill-up would last about two months, cooking twice a day), water jugs and plastic storage bins filled with food, safe from mice and bugs, and out of the way. All sorts of implements were hung from large wire hooks attached into the "ribs" of the van body.

Toilet consisted of a #10 can with plastic lid for urine (a large plastic coffee can is easier to handle, but they weren't around when I was living in an Econoline), and a 2.5-gallon plastic bucket (with lid) and sawdust (available free at any sawmill) to cover stool. That whole mess can be buried or dumped in the woods or even sealed into plastic bags and put into a dumpster.

Bathing inside an Econoline apartment is a simple matter of heating water in a stockpot and using a dishpan to take a sponge bath. I learned to take a complete bath AND wash my long hair with less than two gallons of water, which I would inconspicuously dump on the lawn or parking lot. Once a week I would spend $1.50 on a visit to the university pool for a "real" shower.

Since I didn't need to hide the fact that I was living in the van, I made a special curtain to attach like an awning over the rear side double doors when they were open, and a mosquito curtain to hang across the side door opening. Of course I had small chunks of wood stored in a bag hanging from the inside of the side doors to slip into the hinges to keep the doors from blowing shut. So there was plenty of ventilation, even in the rain. The same could be done with the rear doors if one really wants a lot of wind!

For light, I used a propane lantern, oil lamp or candle(s), depending on how much light I needed and what I had available at a given time. Like I said, there was plenty of storage under the bed (queen size) with access both from inside the van and from the back doors. One can also rent an 8'x10' unit for about $25/month to keep additional supplies if one is not constantly on the move, or get a top carrier if you are.

AggieforPaul
07-06-2011, 08:37 AM
That's pretty extreme. For all the talk about crippling student debt, there's still thousands of kids who rent really modest apartments at state schools, and study something useful like engineering, or accounting/finance, then find a job that makes it pretty easy to pay back their debt.

If he loves English and thinks a Duke education is unparalleled fine, but living in a van isn't necessary. He could have just gotten a more marketable degree and gone to a cheaper school.

angelatc
07-06-2011, 08:46 AM
That's pretty extreme. For all the talk about crippling student debt, there's still thousands of kids who rent really modest apartments at state schools, and study something useful like engineering, or accounting/finance, then find a job that makes it pretty easy to pay back their debt.

If he loves English and thinks a Duke education is unparalleled fine, but living in a van isn't necessary. He could have just gotten a more marketable degree and gone to a cheaper school.

If he was just enjoying it, I'd be fine with it. Bhut his message is that he's a martyr making a case that the government has the responsibility to make his life better than it is.

muzzled dogg
07-06-2011, 08:53 AM
I wanna do this!

SamuraisWisdom
07-06-2011, 09:01 AM
I live in a van, down by the river!!!

angelatc
07-06-2011, 09:06 AM
I wanna do this!

I would rather do that than live in a shelter with a bunch of other people. But I would always be embarrassed when people found out.

Krugerrand
07-06-2011, 09:07 AM
I think this was posted a couple years ago ... but I can't find it.

libertybrewcity
07-06-2011, 11:01 AM
Trying getting girls living in a van.
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh315/THEDecepticon/Motivation/free_candy_van.jpg?t=1242031309

iGGz
07-06-2011, 11:16 AM
It depends. I don't fault people for things they can't help. Slovenly ways are often a symptom of something, so if someone has the means to wash their plate, but decides to be gross about it, that's a problem. Lots of folks have that problem even if they live in mansions, though :p I'm not sure I'd ever meet this theoretical van-denizen, but I'd at least strike up a conversation if I did. There's nothing wrong with talking to people, just vital to have your alarm bells loud and clear.

A guy living in his car does not necessarily mean he's a bum, a slob, crazy, drunk, or any other thing one can think up.

AKA, she'd hit it

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
07-06-2011, 11:57 AM
If he was just enjoying it, I'd be fine with it. Bhut his message is that he's a martyr making a case that the government has the responsibility to make his life better than it is.

Exactly, which is the reason I don't think his essay is great writing. He still has a lot of rewriting and revision to do.