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View Full Version : 15-Year-Old Girl Faces Life in Prison for a Miscarriage? Pregnant women being criminalized




reillym
07-05-2011, 08:50 AM
http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/151508/15_year-old-girl_faces_life_in_prison_for_a_miscarriage_why_co nservatives_are_criminalizing_pregnant_women


Gibbs is the first woman in Mississippi to be charged with murder relating to the loss of her unborn baby. But her case is by no means isolated. Across the US more and more prosecutions are being brought that seek to turn pregnant women into criminals.

Sending a teenager to jail for 40 years? Sounds pretty pro-life to me. Maybe people will wake up to the fact that banning abortion solves nothing but fluffing the egos of the religious extremist Christian Taliban. Terrible.

Roxi
07-05-2011, 09:29 AM
The baby died as a result of her suicide attempt at drinking rat poison... the baby was 36 weeks along

This is my nephew shortly after he was born. He was born at 36 weeks too. The baby she killed was a fully developed baby, that goes beyond abortion and is well past the legal abortion age. Comparing this case to "banning abortion" is a little silly. I'm not saying 40 years in prison will fix anything or help anyone, but its not a fair comparison.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2ns52sm.jpg

TheViper
07-05-2011, 11:38 AM
Roxic, you are mixing up the stories. Read the article again. It gives 3 different examples.

dannno
07-05-2011, 12:32 PM
What if a 15 year old girl was raped, then found out she was pregnant and decided to kill herself when the pregnancy was only 1 month old?

Any principled pro-lifers here want to throw the 15 year old rape victim/depressed suicide attempter in jail for murder?

nicoleeann
07-05-2011, 12:51 PM
this is obviously a tactic that pro-choicers are going to use to defend abortion. Most pro-life people do not agree with this-the media is obviously using this to make people sympathetic towards abortions.

specsaregood
07-05-2011, 01:00 PM
Any principled pro-lifers here want to throw the 15 year old rape victim/depressed suicide attempter in jail for murder?

Is not mental capacity, intent and mental illnesses usually taken into account during sentencing?

dannno
07-05-2011, 01:00 PM
this is obviously a tactic that pro-choicers are going to use to defend abortion. Most pro-life people do not agree with this-the media is obviously using this to make people sympathetic towards abortions.

It might be a tactic, but it's valid. I've been talking about miscarriages turning into huge investigations and here we have some. That doesn't mean I'm against making abortion illegal in your state, it means I'm against making it illegal in my state because I think pregnant women deserve privacy. It also serves as a warning to those who want to make it illegal of what might happen to your daughters.

dannno
07-05-2011, 01:02 PM
Is not mental capacity, intent and mental illnesses usually taken into account during sentencing?

That didn't work out very well in her case, did it? (the only difference was that she wasn't raped and the baby was closer to being born, 33 weeks, but a principled pro-lifer doesn't take into account trimesters or rape or whatever, murdering a fetus is murder).

specsaregood
07-05-2011, 01:04 PM
That didn't work out very well in her case, did it? (the only difference was that she wasn't raped and the baby was closer to being born, 33 weeks, but a principled pro-lifer doesn't take into account trimesters or rape or whatever, murdering a fetus is murder).

Dunno, the link won't load for me and I don't know the specifics of the case. I'll take your answer as a "yes" that mental illnesses are/should be taken into account during sentencing. And sure a "principled pro-lifer" would take it into account. just like you wouldn't want to give the death penalty to somebody who was suffering from schizophrenia.

dannno
07-05-2011, 01:08 PM
There are also a couple of examples in the article of women who are being tried for murdering their fetus even though there is no proof that the death of their fetus had anything to do with incidental drug use during pregnancy.

A lot of folks here have asked what you do about a woman who has a drink when she's pregnant. If the baby dies, is she a murderer? What if she has 10 drinks in a night?

All we're saying is that if abortion becomes illegal, it's not going to be like it was 40 years ago where nobody was really being prosecuted.. they are going to be anti-privacy and turn this into tyrannical drug war type situation. That's what we're seeing here.

dannno
07-05-2011, 01:11 PM
Dunno, the link won't load for me and I don't know the specifics of the case. I'll take your answer as a "yes" that mental illnesses are/should be taken into account during sentencing. And sure a "principled pro-lifer" would take it into account. just like you wouldn't want to give the death penalty to somebody who was suffering from schizophrenia.


Bei Bei Shuai, 34, has spent the past three months in a prison cell in Indianapolis charged with murdering her baby. On 23 December she tried to commit suicide by taking rat poison after her boyfriend abandoned her.



Shuai was rushed to hospital and survived, but she was 33 weeks pregnant and her baby, to whom she gave birth a week after the suicide attempt and whom she called Angel, died after four days. In March Shuai was charged with murder and attempted foeticide and she has been in custody since without the offer of bail.


^Hopefully she won't be convicted, but she's already spent 3 months behind bars and very well could be.


Here's more on the drug issue:


In Alabama at least 40 cases have been brought under the state's "chemical endangerment" law. Introduced in 2006, the statute was designed to protect children whose parents were cooking methamphetamine in the home and thus putting their children at risk from inhaling the fumes.



Amanda Kimbrough is one of the women who have been ensnared as a result of the law being applied in a wholly different way. During her pregnancy her fetus was diagnosed with possible Down's syndrome and doctors suggested she consider a termination, which Kimbrough declined as she is not in favour of abortion.



The baby was delivered by caesarean section prematurely in April 2008 and died 19 minutes after birth.



Six months later Kimbrough was arrested at home and charged with "chemical endangerment" of her unborn child on the grounds that she had taken drugs during the pregnancy – a claim she has denied.



"That shocked me, it really did," Kimbrough said. "I had lost a child, that was enough."



She now awaits an appeal ruling from the higher courts in Alabama, which if she loses will see her begin a 10-year sentence behind bars. "I'm just living one day at a time, looking after my three other kids," she said. "They say I'm a criminal, how do I answer that? I'm a good mother."

dannno
07-05-2011, 01:16 PM
this is obviously a tactic that pro-choicers are going to use to defend abortion. Most pro-life people do not agree with this-the media is obviously using this to make people sympathetic towards abortions.

You might consider telling that to the women who are going to be spending decades in jail, not making children that they probably would have been able to raise otherwise.

This is very real and very scary for all of them.

Feeding the Abscess
07-05-2011, 02:21 PM
And yet dudes like dannno and me are big government statists because we want the government out of our lives.

Or women's lives, in this instance.

specsaregood
07-05-2011, 02:25 PM
^Hopefully she won't be convicted, but she's already spent 3 months behind bars and very well could be.


So if she hasn't been convicted, how is this statement the case?

That didn't work out very well in her case, did it?

/confused.

dannno
07-05-2011, 02:49 PM
So if she hasn't been convicted, how is this statement the case?


/confused.

Because she's already spent 3 months in prison without bail, and she might end up being convicted.

specsaregood
07-05-2011, 02:50 PM
Because she's already spent 3 months in prison without bail, and she might end up being convicted.

right and that sucks; but isn't relevent to my comment that you were replying to which had to do with sentencing.

ds21089
07-05-2011, 02:56 PM
this is obviously a tactic that pro-choicers are going to use to defend abortion. Most pro-life people do not agree with this-the media is obviously using this to make people sympathetic towards abortions.

That's what popped into my head the second I read this.

asurfaholic
07-05-2011, 02:59 PM
What if a 15 year old girl was raped, then found out she was pregnant and decided to kill herself when the pregnancy was only 1 month old?

Any principled pro-lifers here want to throw the 15 year old rape victim/depressed suicide attempter in jail for murder?

Get raped, go to the doctor and have a morning after pill. Problem solved?

You bring up a good point, I am strongly pro-life, but I just can't shake the conviction that in a true rape case (not a sore afterthought) warrants more liberty to the victim. But like a said, in a TRUE rape, you go to the doctor and get checked out. Morning after pill.. a month into pregnancy, your baby already has a beating heart...

dannno
07-05-2011, 03:10 PM
right and that sucks; but isn't relevent to my comment that you were replying to which had to do with sentencing.

Has she not been "thrown in jail for murder" for 3 months so far?

Would she have been thrown in jail if pregnancies were a private matter?

dannno
07-05-2011, 03:14 PM
That's what popped into my head the second I read this.

It's a 'tactic' being used by many who are extremely wary of the police state. That's because it is a valid concern. Do you think these stories are just made up?

If you are wary of the police state, and you're pro-life, you should consider the consequences of asking said police state to protect fetuses. You're going to have a lot of innocent mothers terrorized and they aren't going to have any privacy anymore. You have been warned.

I think pro-life people should focus on protecting life by not having abortions and by persuading others not to have abortions.

specsaregood
07-05-2011, 03:18 PM
Has she not been "thrown in jail for murder" for 3 months so far?

Well 3 months is a far cry from 40 years and it isn't part of the sentencing either.



Would she have been thrown in jail if pregnancies were a private matter?
She very well could be jailed in a psychiatric clinic as a threat to herself. Doesn't it all stem from an attempted suicide?

dannno
07-05-2011, 03:30 PM
She very well could be jailed in a psychiatric clinic as a threat to herself. Doesn't it all stem from an attempted suicide?

I don't think forcing people who attempted suicide into psychiatric clinics is the best thing. It shouldn't be against the law to commit suicide, so why would you force someone who tried to do anything?

ds21089
07-05-2011, 03:37 PM
It's a 'tactic' being used by many who are extremely wary of the police state. That's because it is a valid concern. Do you think these stories are just made up?

If you are wary of the police state, and you're pro-life, you should consider the consequences of asking said police state to protect fetuses. You're going to have a lot of innocent mothers terrorized and they aren't going to have any privacy anymore. You have been warned.

I think pro-life people should focus on protecting life by not having abortions and by persuading others not to have abortions.

My point is that not even RP, who is very pro-life, would ever sentence her to jail and that I believe the ONLY reason which she truly was sentenced was to try to broadcast an extreme case which would turn people into being more-so in favor of abortions. To me, it seems like the same shit as the whole 9/11 TSA thing. Very uncommon cases shouldn't determine law / procedures.

What we're seeing here is something that under a moral society, wouldn't even exist in the first place. A 16 year old on cocaine who is pregnant.. I don't think that's the typical teenager in this country. To me, it's sad that people could even begin to consider abortion, but that's just a result of the decline of morality. What needs to be done is a revert back to a moral society, erasing the brainwashing of the government. They hinder parent/child relationships, making cases like these more frequent. The garbage shows and celebrities these days promote sex left and right and cater to younger audiences.

So basically, this issue is very controversial now, but hopefully in the not-so-distant future after a Paul president, people will go, "abortion? what's that again?" and an opinion on a topic which shouldn't have more than one would no longer exist. Let's hope.

klamath
07-05-2011, 04:57 PM
Dredging up a few wacked out cases where a woman might get jail time yet "Freedom prochoice" has killed more than all the wars in the last century in the entire world. Spare me if I don't get all teary eyes at this sob story.