Let’s Not Linger in Afghanistan (NYT editorial for July 4th, co-authored by Rand Paul)

[Galileo Galilei]

Let’s Not Linger in Afghanistan
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/opinion/05merkley3.html

(NYT editorial for July 4th, co-authored by Rand Paul)

[MRoCkEd]

This is great.

[wormyguy]

"The end of 2012?"

Why not immediately?

This is diluting the "Paul brand" a bit too much, IMO. I don't care if Rand makes the anti-war thing as large a part of his message as Ron does, but I at least want to see the same kind of consistency.

[Brett85]

"The end of 2012?"

Why not immediately?

This is diluting the "Paul brand" a bit too much, IMO. I don't care if Rand makes the anti-war thing as large a part of his message as Ron does, but I at least want to see the same kind of consistency.

Rand wants to come across as being reasonable in order to get more people to come over to our side. I would like to withdraw from Afghanistan overnight as well, but it's not realistic to expect a United States Senator to advocate that. Rand wants a more orderly withdrawal so that there won't be chaos in Afghanistan after we leave. But even advocating a withdrawal by the end of 2012 seems "extreme" to the elite media, because Obama doesn't want to withdraw from Afghanistan until the end of 2014.

[wormyguy]

Rand wants to come across as being reasonable in order to get more people to come over to our side. I would like to withdraw from Afghanistan overnight as well, but it's not realistic to expect a United States Senator to advocate that. Rand wants a more orderly withdrawal so that there won't be chaos in Afghanistan after we leave. But even advocating a withdrawal by the end of 2012 seems "extreme" to the elite media, because Obama doesn't want to withdraw from Afghanistan until the end of 2014.

More than two thirds of Americans want to "withdraw from Afghanistan overnight." Why on earth would it be "unrealistic" for a Senator to advocate what the overwhelming majority of Americans favor? Furthermore the very reason why so many of us worked hard for and donated money to Rand's campaign is precisely that he would advocate "unrealistic" ideas. If Rand Paul is incapable of coming up with a position more "extreme" than disgusting establishment hacks like Jeff Merkley, Tom Udall, and the New York Times editorial page, one wonders what the point is of supporting him in the first place is, or at least the point of supporting him more strenuously than any other reasonably conservative ("conservative?") Republican who opposes the PATRIOT Act (Mike Lee or Dean Heller or whomever).

[Brett85]

More than two thirds of Americans want to "withdraw from Afghanistan overnight." Why on earth would it be "unrealistic" for a Senator to advocate what the overwhelming majority of Americans favor? Furthermore the very reason why so many of us worked hard for and donated money to Rand's campaign is precisely that he would advocate "unrealistic" ideas. If Rand Paul is incapable of coming up with a position more "extreme" than disgusting establishment hacks like Jeff Merkley, Tom Udall, and the New York Times editorial page, one wonders what the point is of supporting him in the first place is, or at least the point of supporting him more strenuously than any other reasonably conservative ("conservative?") Republican who opposes the PATRIOT Act (Mike Lee or Dean Heller or whomever).

I think you just illustrated why Rand can't please everyone. Rand comes out with a bold position that's much better than anything being advocated by any other politician, and that's still not good enough for you. The polls don't show that 2/3 of Americans want out of Afghanistan immediately. The polls show that 51% of Americans want out of Afghanistan within a year, which is basically what Rand is advocating. Also, during the campaign Rand didn't advocate withdrawing from Afghanistan at all. I'm pleasantly surprised that he wants to get out by the end of 2012. I'm not sure what campaign you were paying attention to. Rand is much bolder now than he was during the campaign.

[wormyguy]

http://media.bloomberg.com/bb/avfile/rk74U1tEA.R0

Americans favor "pulling all troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan" by a 66-30 margin. I was paying attention to the campaign where Rand claimed he agreed with his father on "everything." And no, nobody can "please everyone," and any pro-freedom person should not be at all "pleased" with Rand's position on Afghanistan. If this were an editorial written by Hillary Clinton or Marco Rubio or whomever, then one might be mildly "pleased" in the sense that it represents an improvement, but ceding the entire debate on foreign policy to the real "extremists" by playing on their turf accomplishes nothing and is actually harmful to the cause. (Can you imagine the debate questions? "Ron Paul, you favor immediate withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet this puts you out of touch with many Republicans. In fact, your own son, Senator Rand Paul, does not agree. How do you explain your position to Republicans?").

[radiofriendly]

@wormguy I do have a song for you (my very best)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_PV9PURxHI

[sorianofan]

"The end of 2012?"

Why not immediately?

This is diluting the "Paul brand" a bit too much, IMO. I don't care if Rand makes the anti-war thing as large a part of his message as Ron does, but I at least want to see the same kind of consistency.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfYCtu7JfGU&feature=related

Personally I'm with Ron to leave ASAP. However, a reasonable withdrawal over a year is not insanity militarily. It just goes against my ardent pacifism.

We don't want what happened to the 9th company in the 80s to happen to us.

[Chieppa1]

Rand Paul is going to sit in the Senate, and filibuster the Debt Ceiling. Give the guy a break. I just think he understands that 90% of his countrymen are clueless. We on this forum just happen to interact with the 10% that are politically active.

[Brian4Liberty]

Here's the unofficial rebuttal:

"We would like to recommend against withdrawal from Afghanistan. Who are "we"? We are the contractors, subcontractors, Fortune 500 companies, bankers, arms dealers, drug dealers and many other entities that have vested (and extremely lucrative) interests in Afghanistan. You may refer to us as the Military Industrial Complex (MIC), the crony capitalists, the war profiteers, the Oligarchy or many other names that are somewhat accurate but not comprehensive by any means. We could say that it's about terrorism, or Democracy, or stability, but it really has nothing to do with any of those things. From now on, those lies can be spewed by pundits and propagandists for the consumption of the ignorant masses. For us, the charade has gone on long enough, and is no longer necessary. This is our gravy train, and we want it to keep rolling, so it will. We own the majority of US politicians, and we are confident that the train will continue, even though we are completely transparent now. We have far too much power and momentum to be stopped. So complain all you want, resistance is futile."

[Brian4Liberty]

//

[SimpleName]

Rand is a powerhouse in this Senate. Unrelenting this guy. While Ron seems to linger in the background, Rand stands out and forces action.