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View Full Version : Man dies after motorcycle crashes during helmet protest ride




RonPaulFanInGA
07-03-2011, 05:39 PM
http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/story/Man-dies-after-motorcycle-crashes-during-helmet/3hjcjSPXsUCsrtyM9cBn0g.cspx


LAFAYETTE, NY (WSYR-TV) New York State Troopers say one man is dead after a motorcycle crash near McClary Road and Route 11 in LaFayette on Saturday.

New York State Police say 55-year-old Philip Contos of Parish was part of a protest against motorcycle helmets.

Police say several motorists from the group ABATE (American Bikers Aimed for Education) of Onondaga County had come together to make a point that they didn't need their helmets.

The group was driving south on Route 11 in Lafayette around 1:30 p.m., headed toward Lake Como, just south of the Finger Lakes.

Police say Contos suddenly hit the brakes and lost control of the motorcycle.

According to troopers, Contos was thrown over his handlebars and hit the pavement as his 1993 Harley Davidson motorcycle skidded toward the guardrail.

Contos was still alive when crews arrived at the scene and was transported to Upstate University Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

According to police, Contos was not wearing his helmet, as required by law. Witnesses say this decision was part of the protest.

Police say that based on evidence at the scene and from doctors, Contos would have survived if he had been wearing a DOT-Approved helmet.

MelissaWV
07-03-2011, 05:41 PM
Classic example of inadvertantly hurting your cause.

Of course, he paid for his decision all by his lonesome, and no one was hurt but the person who decided to go without a helmet.

Anti Federalist
07-03-2011, 05:42 PM
ABATE (American Bikers Aimed for Education)

Pussies.

When I belonged to ABATE back in the day, it stood for A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Enactments.

That said, I'm sure the nanny staters are chuckling with glee over this one.

Too bad.

showpan
07-03-2011, 05:48 PM
Tragic, he died while protesting his freedoms that have been taken away. R.I.P.

sailingaway
07-03-2011, 05:50 PM
Soda whoosis already has a poll up of whether in light of this, everyone should be required to wear helmets. It was far too close so I tweeted it. In case anyone is in the mood: http://bit.ly/kIso5L

pcosmar
07-03-2011, 06:04 PM
In 1998, 46% of fatally injured motorcycle drivers were not wearing helmets at the time of the crash.
http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/crash.htm


That means that 54% of fatalities were wearing helmets.

RonPaulCult
07-03-2011, 06:10 PM
I believe in the right to be stupid, and not wearing a helmet is pretty stupid. It sucks the guy died though.

brushfire
07-03-2011, 06:12 PM
People make poor choices, but it doesn't mean that the government makes better choices on people's behalf. RIP - freedom fighter!

Velho
07-03-2011, 06:12 PM
Forcing people to wear a helmet is weird... Not wearing a helmet is stupid... Why wouldn't you do it? I'd never ride a bike without a helmet. Then again, I always wear full protection (head, hands, wrists, knees, elbows) when rollerskating...

AZKing
07-03-2011, 06:13 PM
Pretty ironic. The guy was an idiot for not wanting to wear a helmet, but I agree that it's none of the goobermint's business. Still, even if it wasn't a law you wouldn't catch me riding a motorcycle without a helmet.

Anti Federalist
07-03-2011, 06:17 PM
Pretty ironic. The guy was an idiot for not wanting to wear a helmet, but I agree that it's none of the goobermint's business. Still, even if it wasn't a law you wouldn't catch me riding a motorcycle without a helmet.

Why not in a four wheel vehicle as well?

Why not in your shower?

Or on your stairs?

pcosmar
07-03-2011, 06:20 PM
:confused:
I have known several people killed while wearing helmets.
And one that was a paraplegic BECAUSE of his helmet. He could no longer support his family, and they lost their home. The insurance would not pay, because he lived.

Sad situation, would have been better for all had he died. (he did eventually from complications, but it destroyed the family)

Travlyr
07-03-2011, 06:20 PM
Impressive comment on the article.


deathbyhelmet - 3:40 PM

ATTENTION all self righteous motorcycle helmet "experts", I seemed to have missed all your comments on the previous 4415 fatalities who were wearing helmets in New York State since 1967. I can see from the postings here that helmets are a very emotional issue with both rider and non-riders so let the TRUTH be known. In 1966 the federal government the wish of one bureaucrat included helmets in the 1966 federal Highway Safety Act. This was done due to a report that stated there would be a 50% reduction in both injuries and fatalities. States were coerced into passing this legislation under a threatened loss of 10% of their highway funds, blackmail. After research by NYS a special report(1969-1) was released which stated that "BECAUSE OF THE MAGNITUDE OF FORCES PRESENT WHEN A MOTORCYCLIST IS KILLED OR INJURED IT IS NOT REASONABLE TO EXPECT ANY DEGREE OF PROTECTION FROM A HELMET". The report also cited the fact that the very first year of the law there was a rise in the death and injury rates (a statistic that is not affected by new riders, the weather or economy) which was attributed to the 750% increase in broken necks. The head is involved 15% of the time before helmets and 14% after with the leading cause of death being ruptured hearts and internal injuries at 67%. In 1975 Congress repealed the federal helmet law and has forbidden the USDOT and NHTSA from lobbying state legislatures on this issue and this year dropped mandatory helmet wearing from their 10 most wanted wish list. All you "experts" probably are not aware that helmet laws have been repealed in 30 states with Michigan soon to be the 31st and guess what, the "free" states have impressive safety records as opposed to the helmeted states with NY being the most unsafe. You see what started out as a figment of a bureaucrats imagination backed by millions wasted on untrue propaganda could not sustain the obvious, it is better to prevent an involvement rather then rely on a helmet. Repeal NY helmets now!

Helmets break necks at high speed.

AZKing
07-03-2011, 06:21 PM
Why not in a four wheel vehicle as well?

Why not in your shower?

Or on your stairs?

My car has a seatbelt and an airbag, as well as crumple zones. My shower is a tiny cubicle and it's impossible to fall down. I don't really have stairs, other than my deck.

As with everything, I take precautions when driving. I don't drive speed limit or wear my seatbelt or don't tailgate people because I'm afraid of getting a ticket, I do it because it genuinely increases safety. I don't put little non-slip strips in the bottom of my shower because it's a law, I put them down so I don't slip and break something.

I don't care what people do when they get into a car or bike or shower or walk on their stairs. Just don't hurt anyone else and don't expect me to pay for your medical bills for the rest of your life. And that does happen. I briefly volunteered in a nursing home when I was younger and there was numerous young men who were permanently paralyzed from car accidents, and all of them were on state assistance.

MelissaWV
07-03-2011, 06:23 PM
Why not in a four wheel vehicle as well?

Why not in your shower?

Or on your stairs?

Actually, I do think a lot of people ride 4-wheelers underprotected, though most of those deaths come from flips and crushing (so a helmet would just keep you alive longer to savor the suffering before your internal organs gave out). I don't think it should be a law.

Any helmet-law-friendly folks who insist that it "saves lives" should ask themselves why I see so many people riding, helmets on, wearing nothing but a sun dress or a pair of shorts and a tee shirt or other such thing. Maybe people won't die when they skid across the pavement skin-first (as opposed to covered in tougher materials like leather or certain types of denim)... but maybe they will. None of that is mandated here, though.

I think it's pretty dumb to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, given the kind of accidents you are likely to have if you ever have one, but that's for me to decide for myself and no other. (And yes, I also know they provide very little protection, but SOME would be worth it imo... and plus it would keep my hair from going all over the place. That's about it.)

Velho
07-03-2011, 06:25 PM
Impressive comment on the article.



Helmets break necks at high speed.

And on the other hand significantly reduces chance of head injury..

Travlyr
07-03-2011, 06:31 PM
And on the other hand significantly reduces chance of head injury..

Avoiding the accident in the first place is key to not being injured at all.

pcosmar
07-03-2011, 06:32 PM
And on the other hand significantly reduces chance of head injury..

By the statistics in 1996.
More people died with helmets than without.

Let those who Ride, Decide.

AGRP
07-03-2011, 06:33 PM
People still choose to live in NY?

Anti Federalist
07-03-2011, 06:36 PM
People still choose to live in NY?

Well, more and more, they are voting with their feet.

How many congressional seats is NY due to lose this go around?

Trouble is, they leave, and just fuck things up as bad as they were back home, wherever they go.

Just like getting Californicated or invaded by Massholes.

robmpreston
07-03-2011, 06:36 PM
By the statistics in 1996.
More people died with helmets than without.

Let those who Ride, Decide.

You're purposely leaving out the most important part of that stat. What percentage of riders wear helmets? If it's something like 70%+ of them, then your data is skewed because obviously more would die with helmets on.

YumYum
07-03-2011, 06:38 PM
Impressive comment on the article.



Helmets break necks at high speed.

If a helmet is not on tight, it can act like a parachute when a biker looks up going at high speeds and fling him back. I've had it happen.

MelissaWV
07-03-2011, 06:40 PM
You're purposely leaving out the most important part of that stat. What percentage of riders wear helmets? If it's something like 70%+ of them, then your data is skewed because obviously more would die with helmets on.

But if helmets are such a glorious panacea that they must be mandated in order to save lives, that "skew" wouldn't show up. Or is it a given that they are ineffective in many kinds of crashes?

* * *

The important number, if you were personally deciding, would be what percentage of those who didn't die in accidents owe their lives to their helmets, and whether or not you really want to worry about your skull when you are being tossed around into a roadway and possibly breaking bones you didn't even know you had.

Anti Federalist
07-03-2011, 06:43 PM
But if helmets are such a glorious panacea that they must be mandated in order to save lives, that "skew" wouldn't show up. Or is it a given that they are ineffective in many kinds of crashes?

Beat me to it, thank you.

ronpaulitician
07-03-2011, 06:43 PM
"When I wear a helmet, I can drive faster and take more risks, because I'm protected."

AZKing
07-03-2011, 06:48 PM
Those are all pretty generalized statistics. A guy with a helmet dies, but what kind of accident is it? What speed was he going? I wouldn't expect either a helmeted or non helmeted biker to live in accident when a semi truck going 70mph hits him.

Travlyr
07-03-2011, 06:48 PM
People riding on two wheels are more likely to crash than people riding in four wheel vehicles. Motorcycle helmets are not the same as bicycle helmets because they are heavier, larger in circumference, block vision, and will vibrate at high speeds, as well as, heat-up a rider's head on hot days. They have never been proven safer than going without. Avoiding the accident is the best prevention to avoiding injury.

AGRP
07-03-2011, 06:49 PM
What good are helmets if the rest of the body is vulnerable?

I propose full body suits:

http://cdn3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/196/566/110/kyU7.jpg

pcosmar
07-03-2011, 06:49 PM
You're purposely leaving out the most important part of that stat. What percentage of riders wear helmets? If it's something like 70%+ of them, then your data is skewed because obviously more would die with helmets on.
I posted the link.
I am purposely doing nothing, other than providing the information.
http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/crash.htm

1998 Motorcycle Accident Statistics:

2,284 motorcyclists died and approximately 49,000 were injured in highway crashes in the United States.

Per mile traveled in 1998, a motorcyclist is approximately 16 times more likely to die in a crash than an automobile occupant. And 3x (times) as likely to be injured.

Head injury is a leading cause of death in motorcycle crashes.

In 1998, 46% of fatally injured motorcycle drivers were not wearing helmets at the time of the crash.
This means 54% were wearing helmets. more than half.
NHTSA estimates that motorcycle helmets reduce the likelihood of a fatality by 29% in a crash.

In 1998, 41% of all motorcycle drivers involved in fatal crashes were speeding.
That means 59% were NOT speeding
Nearly one out of five motorcycle drivers (18%) involved in fatal crashes in 1998 was operating with an invalid license at the time of the collision.
82% were licensed drivers

Motorcycle drivers involved in fatal crashes in 1998 had higher intoxication rates than any other type of motor vehicle driver at 31%.
Those statistics are in question
In 1998, 500 motorcyclists lives were saved due to helmet usage; 307 could have been saved.
Arbitrary opinion

oops,, I said 1996,,it is 1998
:p

Velho
07-03-2011, 06:50 PM
What's wrong with you people.. Nobody here is disputing the fact that people should be allowed to decide for themselves. Drive safely, and you might not need the helmet. But accidents happen. I've fallen down with a bike, and without a helmet I could be dead right now. I hit the back of my head to the road and the helmet cracked... But I got out of it with some poop in my pants, if you know what I mean.

Anti Federalist
07-03-2011, 06:56 PM
What's wrong with you people.. Nobody here is disputing the fact that people should be allowed to decide for themselves. Drive safely, and you might not need the helmet. But accidents happen. I've fallen down with a bike, and without a helmet I could be dead right now. I hit the back of my head to the road and the helmet cracked... But I got out of it with some poop in my pants, if you know what I mean.

There are a couple of old timers and bikers in this thread that not only approach this from a "freedom of choice" issue, but also have real world experience that causes doubts about the efficacy of helmets and in fact view them as a dangerous hindrance rather than a help.

I happen to be one of them.

Velho
07-03-2011, 07:01 PM
There are a couple of old timers and bikers in this thread that not only approach this from a "freedom of choice" issue, but also have real world experience that causes doubts about the efficacy of helmets and in fact view them as a dangerous hindrance rather than a help.

I happen to be one of them.

My real world experience happens to say otherwise. :)

Anti Federalist
07-03-2011, 07:04 PM
My real world experience happens to say otherwise. :)

Thus, no mandates, and nobody is an "idiot" for doing one or the other.

;)

pcosmar
07-03-2011, 07:05 PM
I happen to be one of them.

I'm another.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3361/3292535953_6c85a1f9b5_z.jpg?zz=1

Come on folks ,,post your bike.

Or your skid lid.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2183/2100802221_93f1ce074c_z.jpg

btw,, NOT DOT approved.

Velho
07-03-2011, 07:07 PM
Thus, no mandates, and nobody is an "idiot" for doing one or the other.

;)

Sorry about that, I guess I was overpowered by my own experience and generalized on that... Though I still won't ride without a helmet. :D

pcosmar
07-03-2011, 07:09 PM
Sorry about that, I guess I was overpowered by my own experience and generalized on that... Though I still won't ride without a helmet. :D

That is a valid choice. I usually wear one.
But I like the freedom to remove it at my discretion.

Velho
07-03-2011, 07:14 PM
That is a valid choice. I usually wear one.
But I like the freedom to remove it at my discretion.

Yes and I totally agree with you on that. Where I come from it's mandatory to wear a helmet even when riding a bicycle, (there's no punishment though, so it's not enforced..) the world can be a fooked up place.

LibForestPaul
07-03-2011, 07:18 PM
I believe in the right to be stupid, and not wearing a helmet is pretty stupid. It sucks the guy died though.

I never wore a bicycle helmet when young...your point? Riding a motorcycle is stupid, driving a Honda Fit is stupid? He had an accident and died, like 50k others every year.

Anti Federalist
07-03-2011, 07:18 PM
I don't have a scanned copy of any of my rides...In fact, Broadzilla (the ex wife) has all my hard copies and probably tossed them out years ago.

But the first looked almost exactly like this, in black:

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/outlaw-chopper-profile-1.jpg

The second looked like this:

http://www.mountainmachineandmotorcycle.com/3_1980_IRON_HEAD_SPORTSTER_CHOPPER_edited-1.jpg

The third and last one, that I never completed, I was hoping would turn out like this:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9fh1F_38iC8/0.jpg

pcosmar
07-03-2011, 07:19 PM
Yes and I totally agree with you on that. Where I come from it's mandatory to wear a helmet even when riding a bicycle, (there's no punishment though, so it's not enforced..) the world can be a fooked up place.

There wasn't when I grew up. Such things didn't even exist.
And I survived many bicycle crashes. i fell out of some trees too.
That is how you learn not to.

RonPaulFanInGA
07-03-2011, 07:22 PM
but also have real world experience that causes doubts about the efficacy of helmets and in fact view them as a dangerous hindrance rather than a help.

Really? If you could see into the future and knew for a fact you were going to crash at a significant speed before leaving the house, but still had to ride the motorcycle anyway: would you wear a helmet or not?

pcosmar
07-03-2011, 07:25 PM
I don't have a scanned copy of any of my rides...

The second is very nearly exactly what I want.

All Hard tails too.
:D

Anti Federalist
07-03-2011, 07:27 PM
Really? If you could see into the future and knew for a fact you were going to crash at a significant speed before leaving the house, but still had to ride the motorcycle anyway: would you wear a helmet or not?

It would depend on if the powers of prognostication that you have given me would allow a detailed view of the accident particulars and the aftermath.

Maybe I'd prefer to just be killed outright than live as paraplegic.

Maybe the helmet would enhance neck injuries rather than hinder them.

Maybe maybe maybe...

Travlyr
07-03-2011, 07:32 PM
My motorcycle accident. No helmet. No neck or head injury ... road rash and busted knee. It happened when a car made a left hand turn in front of me and cut my path as I was traveling 60 mph. I hit the car in the back door and sailed over the car into the median. I am convinced that the weight of the helmet would have snapped my neck upon impact had I been wearing one.

The helmet can kill, or it can save. It all depends on the circumstances.

Anti Federalist
07-03-2011, 07:34 PM
The second is very nearly exactly what I want.

All Hard tails too.
:D

The engine is not right on that picture I grabbed, I'm thinking that is a 1980 or so Sportster.

Mine was a 1971, with the kicker, it was a great ride when everything was running right but that damn bike was nothing but headaches, mostly ignition. If you build one, rip out all the stock ignition shit and replace it with a magneto system.

And yup, nothing but hardtails. I'd love to build another now that you can get any damn parts you want and don't have to fabricate half the shit from scratch. Good for your ego, not so good for quality and time.

This is closer, engine wise:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2443/3554182616_a6a0ba8f07.jpg

Velho
07-03-2011, 07:35 PM
It would depend on if the powers of prognostication that you have given me would allow a detailed view of the accident particulars and the aftermath.

Maybe I'd prefer to just be killed outright than live as paraplegic.

Maybe the helmet would enhance neck injuries rather than hinder them.

Maybe maybe maybe...

You would make a great politician.

Travlyr
07-03-2011, 07:44 PM
I'm another.
Come on folks ,,post your bike.
Wish I still had one.

pcosmar
07-03-2011, 07:49 PM
Wish I still had one.

Mine is down (hurricane Wilma victim) and stashed in the barn. :(

but I seldom ever wear a helmet on this either.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2139/2147401114_85dd744437_z.jpg

Travlyr
07-03-2011, 07:53 PM
Nice, that looks like fun.

ronpaulhawaii
07-03-2011, 07:56 PM
...

Trouble is, they leave, and just fuck things up as bad as they were back home, wherever they go.

Just like getting Californicated or invaded by Massholes.

Statist :p :D

RIP the guy who died protesting lost liberty...

Didn't know the data-points.

Interesting thread...

pcosmar
07-03-2011, 07:56 PM
Nice, that looks like fun.

It get some work done. It's a truck. Hauls wood all winter.
Heavy beast, catching air at 50mph is interesting. Capable of 100+.

Anti Federalist
07-03-2011, 08:00 PM
Wish I still had one.

Damn it, so do I.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvLtNBm1yyA

Travlyr
07-03-2011, 08:02 PM
Damn it, so do I.

Clearly need to get my priorities in order ;)

AFPVet
07-03-2011, 08:02 PM
It was his choice. Laws do not protect us from the decisions we make. People should be educated for safety... not ticketed.

PaulConventionWV
07-03-2011, 08:16 PM
Pretty ironic. The guy was an idiot for not wanting to wear a helmet, but I agree that it's none of the goobermint's business. Still, even if it wasn't a law you wouldn't catch me riding a motorcycle without a helmet.

It's not ironic. It's what you would expect, sadly. The guy who was an idiot gets killed. No irony here.

I ride my tricycle without a helmet! .....................

GreenBulldog
07-03-2011, 08:21 PM
I'm a motorcyclist and as much as I believe wearing helmets, along with the rest of the gear should be worn at all times, should be up to the riders.

Also, I believe if you think your head can survive a fall to asphalt, well, that's natural selection.

amy31416
07-03-2011, 08:48 PM
So I've been on motorcycles before--how do you keep the bugs out of your face without a helmet/face shield? It's really unpleasant to have bugs smashing into your face at 60+mph.

RonPaulGetsIt
07-03-2011, 09:07 PM
Follow the bouncing tyrannical ball....

A guy refuses to wear a helmet, gets ticketed, and refuses to pay the fine. Then the cops try to arrest him. He resists. They shoot and kill him.

All government is backed by the threat of deadly force if you follow it to its logical conclusion.

You can't legislate good judgement or morality.

What you can do is leave people who haven't harmed anyone alone.

Travlyr
07-03-2011, 09:22 PM
So I've been on motorcycles before--how do you keep the bugs out of your face without a helmet/face shield? It's really unpleasant to have bugs smashing into your face at 60+mph.

Windshields are nice for cross country rides. ;)

pcosmar
07-03-2011, 10:05 PM
So I've been on motorcycles before--how do you keep the bugs out of your face without a helmet/face shield? It's really unpleasant to have bugs smashing into your face at 60+mph.

Beard.
Never been hit in the face, but caught a June bug center chest.

Vessol
07-03-2011, 10:11 PM
So I've been on motorcycles before--how do you keep the bugs out of your face without a helmet/face shield? It's really unpleasant to have bugs smashing into your face at 60+mph.

Bikers are just too bad ass to give a shit :cool:.

Anti Federalist
07-03-2011, 10:33 PM
So I've been on motorcycles before--how do you keep the bugs out of your face without a helmet/face shield? It's really unpleasant to have bugs smashing into your face at 60+mph.

http://www.dothog.com/motorcycle/awards/biker_bugs.jpg

PineGroveDave
07-03-2011, 10:37 PM
LOL...I rode before CA had helmet laws and I wore a helmet. I ride today and wear a helmet; not because it's law but simply because it makes sense, I'm 51 years old and I do dangerous things. I rock climb, I SCUBA dive, I tower climb....but I never let stupidity overrule my "Common Sense".

The guy that died is a fucking dumb ass but thankfully I don't have to pay for his disability. I have a female friend that loves to go to states where there are no helmet laws because she feels "freer" without a helmet....I wonder how "smarter" she'd feel with her gray matter smeared across asphalt.

Danke
07-03-2011, 10:39 PM
Come on folks ,,post your bike.



http://www.rickyneedham.com/uploaded_images/ricky-moped-789453.JPG

Anti Federalist
07-03-2011, 10:41 PM
Mo-Pagan ^^^

amy31416
07-03-2011, 10:43 PM
http://www.hypermiler.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/peewee.jpg

PineGroveDave
07-03-2011, 10:48 PM
Come on folks ,,post your bike.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn42/PineGroveDave/vtx-1_304.jpg
My other ride...
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn42/PineGroveDave/goldwing-1.jpg

Anti Federalist
07-03-2011, 10:49 PM
LOL...I rode before CA had helmet laws and I wore a helmet. I ride today and wear a helmet; not because it's law but simply because it makes sense, I'm 51 years old and I do dangerous things. I rock climb, I SCUBA dive, I tower climb....but I never let stupidity overrule my "Common Sense".

The guy that died is a fucking dumb ass but thankfully I don't have to pay for his disability. I have a female friend that loves to go to states where there are no helmet laws because she feels "freer" without a helmet....I wonder how "smarter" she'd feel with her gray matter smeared across asphalt.

A "fucking dumb ass"?

Whether you like it or not, he was deliberately committing an act of civil disobedience that would, in a small way, enhance all our freedom.

For this he gets called a dumb ass?

PineGroveDave
07-03-2011, 10:51 PM
For this he gets called a dumb ass?

Yeah, and I don't really give a fuck if you have an issue with that, capiche?

Anti Federalist
07-03-2011, 10:55 PM
Yeah, and I don't really give a fuck if you have an issue with that, capiche?

Well, fuck you back, dickhead.

PineGroveDave
07-03-2011, 10:56 PM
Well, fuck you back, dickhead.

Was it something I said? ;) LOL!

Travlyr
07-04-2011, 12:36 PM
LOL...I rode before CA had helmet laws and I wore a helmet. I ride today and wear a helmet; not because it's law but simply because it makes sense, I'm 51 years old and I do dangerous things. I rock climb, I SCUBA dive, I tower climb....but I never let stupidity overrule my "Common Sense".

The guy that died is a fucking dumb ass but thankfully I don't have to pay for his disability. I have a female friend that loves to go to states where there are no helmet laws because she feels "freer" without a helmet....I wonder how "smarter" she'd feel with her gray matter smeared across asphalt.

This is sad. All it takes is a little bit of independent study to learn that helmet laws have done very little to help motorcycle riders. Motorcycle helmets have saved some people and they have killed others.

I am glad that I live in a state that gives me the choice, for I am alive today because I was not wearing a 3 pound anchor on my head during a crash. If you feel safer, then wear it. But people are not idiots or dumb asses because they chose otherwise. We've done our homework.


People riding on two wheels are more likely to crash than people riding in four wheel vehicles. Motorcycle helmets are not the same as bicycle helmets because they are heavier, larger in circumference, block vision, and will vibrate at high speeds, as well as, heat-up a rider's head on hot days. They have never been proven safer than going without. Avoiding the accident is the best prevention to avoiding injury.



My motorcycle accident. No helmet. No neck or head injury ... road rash and busted knee. It happened when a car made a left hand turn in front of me and cut my path as I was traveling 60 mph. I hit the car in the back door and sailed over the car into the median. I am convinced that the weight of the helmet would have snapped my neck upon impact had I been wearing one.

The helmet can kill, or it can save. It all depends on the circumstances.

pauladin
07-04-2011, 12:42 PM
not wearing a helmet is dumb, but forcing people to not be dumb is even dumber.

Golding
07-04-2011, 12:54 PM
I think that this story's impact is all a matter of presentation. Sure, the lesson from "Man dies after motercycle crashes during helmet protest ride" seems to naturally be that this somehow proves helmets should be required by law to protect lives.

What is the lesson from "Helmet law fails to coerce motorcyclist from wearing helmet, motorcyclist dies in spite of law"?

Heck, the focus on one motorcyclist among "several" in a group seems suspect to me. Wouldn't it be prudent to notice the majority? I wonder what could be learned from a headline like "Several motorcyclists ride in protest of helmet law, end ride unharmed".

I'm curious to see if there are any reports from NewsChannel 9 about any motorcyclists who happen to die regardless of whether they wear a helmet. Would the headline read, "Motorcyclist dies in crash while wearing a helmet, law fails to save him"?

Has any news site listed the cause of death from the certificate? Many motorcyclists I've seen in the hospital end up with rib fractures, which injure the lungs to cause life-threatening pneumothorax. I don't suspect a helmet would necessarily help in that regard, and therefore it seems to be a rather important piece of information missing from reports.

Travlyr
07-04-2011, 01:38 PM
not wearing a helmet is dumb, but forcing people to not be dumb is even dumber.

So it was dumb of me to save my own life? I'm actually thankful that I choose to be smart. I've studied the issue. It is all a matter of chance.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
07-04-2011, 01:41 PM
http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/story/Man-dies-after-motorcycle-crashes-during-helmet/3hjcjSPXsUCsrtyM9cBn0g.cspx

I really can't express my true feelings on this topic. I'm sure most would agree with me, however, and with my x-wife who, under her breath, would always complain from the passenger seat about all the stupid women drivers out there. Hey, I didn't say it!

PineGroveDave
07-04-2011, 10:07 PM
But people are not idiots or dumb asses because they chose otherwise. We've done our homework. In my opinion they are. Don't like it? Tough shit. I really don't care. Just as you shouldn't care what my feelings are...unless you have your panties in a bunch like others here. I say what I want. I say what I think. Anyone who chooses to ride without a helmet is a dumbass...and that's my opinion. At least I own it and I'll say it to anyone face to face...Jesus, some of you kiddies really can't handle differing opinions, can you? I've done my homework too. If someone can't handle a helmet, they must be a friggin' pencilneck...I am not a pencilneck and I prefer to keep my brain within my skull and not smeared across asphalt. For the record, I've never once said that helmet laws should be enforced before any of you kiddies think I'm all about helmet laws...jeez. LOL!

Carehn
07-04-2011, 10:13 PM
You don't have to have a helmet in Idaho. People die all the time. Its natural selection. Personally i don't think 4 wheels is enough. I could go for 6 or 8. but if I was to ride a motorcycle i would where a helmet and bubble boy outfit because i am a pussy.

So don't force people to where helmets! Most are male and as they die off it becomes easier and easier to pick up chicks. You know, supply and demand and all.

LibForestPaul
07-06-2011, 07:58 PM
In my opinion they are. Don't like it? Tough shit. I really don't care. Just as you shouldn't care what my feelings are...unless you have your panties in a bunch like others here. I say what I want. I say what I think. Anyone who chooses to ride without a helmet is a dumbass...and that's my opinion. At least I own it and I'll say it to anyone face to face...Jesus, some of you kiddies really can't handle differing opinions, can you? I've done my homework too. If someone can't handle a helmet, they must be a friggin' pencilneck...I am not a pencilneck and I prefer to keep my brain within my skull and not smeared across asphalt. For the record, I've never once said that helmet laws should be enforced before any of you kiddies think I'm all about helmet laws...jeez. LOL!

And I think anyone who rides is a dumbass, just my opinion. Donorcycles, nothing like donorcycles to help those in need.

tangent4ronpaul
07-06-2011, 09:57 PM
Somebody please nominate this moron for a Darwin award!

When I worked in an ER we had a slang term for ppl that rode "crotch rockets" - that term was "organ donors".

I vividly remember a young girl - early 20's comming into out ER - She was delivered nude - unusual... She had no skin on one side of her body - unusual... She was sent up to surgery in less than 2 minutes - again unusual. I do not know if she lived but I have not gotten near one of those THINGS since...

-t

pcosmar
07-07-2011, 07:02 AM
Motorcycles are dangerous. Fact of life that won't be changed by piling on laws.
I was told by a biker cousin when I was very young,

"Ride like the bike, the road and everything out there is trying to kill you. Personally. And you will be alright.
Ride with that attitude.
The first time you get on it and think you know what you are doing, you will go down."

I usually wear a helmet and leather. I have hit the ground hard, doing something stupid. And helmets do help especially in low speed crashes, for the initial thump.
At speed the leather is your best protection. Why do you think most bikers wear it? It ain't just style.

The article mentions this one guy that died,,,How many rode that day with no helmets and did not?

Let those that ride, decide.

squarepusher
07-07-2011, 07:19 AM
here's the issue, the government build the roads, so them regulating rules on it seems fair to me. You can't ride a a lot of vehicles at all on roads, is that restricting ones freedom?

Lets say you were a private company, and you build roads on your property, shouldn't you be allowed to make rules on travellers on it?

YumYum
07-07-2011, 07:25 AM
Helmets save lives. They have saved mine. Gasoline on asphalt is like ice on ice, and when a motorcycle hits a spot of gasoline on the road it will spin out of control. I would rather the government make laws requiring helmets to be worn than making laws requiring that I go to war and kill my fellow man. At least the helmet law is not killing people.

Carehn
07-07-2011, 07:33 AM
You can't ride a a lot of vehicles at all on roads, is that restricting ones freedom?


No so much in Montana. I have heard you can drive just about anything on the roads in the big sky.

Travlyr
07-07-2011, 07:41 AM
Helmets save lives. They have saved mine. Gasoline on asphalt is like ice on ice, and when a motorcycle hits a spot of gasoline on the road it will spin out of control. I would rather the government make laws requiring helmets to be worn than making laws requiring that I go to war and kill my fellow man. At least the helmet law is not killing people.
Helmets do kill people, too. That's the whole point being made. As long as a rider has the motorcycle under control... no problem. At the point the rider loses control, all bets are off... it all depends on what happens next. Get tossed down a canyon, into oncoming traffic, hit a bridge abutment or post, or just garner some road rash. It's all a matter of chance once the motorcycle is no longer upright.

Helmets have killed a lot of people. If my math is correct a 3 pound helmet at 60 mph = 180 foot/lbs. That is a lot of instant strain on the neck given an accident which often results in broken necks. That's why states without helmet laws are demonstrating higher safety records than states with helmet laws. And all this was predicted back in the 60's.

Motorcycle helmet manufactures knew this. They lobbied for the laws. Since most people just assume that helmets make sense, then most people will argue for them without doing the research. For the state? The state wins by collecting sales tax on the sale of the helmet, and by ticketing & collecting revenue from riders who go without a helmet.

The state should not be allowed to force people to wear dangerous equipment.

pcosmar
07-07-2011, 07:43 AM
here's the issue, the government build the roads, so them regulating rules on it seems fair to me.

Not really, though I have heard this fallacy before.
people made roads. First on the personal and local level. Then trade routes that were commonly used were improved by local folks.
Eventually municipalities started paving them. Then states did.Then somewhere along the line the Federal Government usurped authority over the highways.
Maintaining post roads was and is a responsibility of government. Maintaining, but they were initially built by people at the local level.

acptulsa
07-07-2011, 07:48 AM
There are a couple of old timers and bikers in this thread that not only approach this from a "freedom of choice" issue, but also have real world experience that causes doubts about the efficacy of helmets and in fact view them as a dangerous hindrance rather than a help.

I happen to be one of them.

+ rep and + one.

I avoided an accident because I wasn't wearing a helmet. A car didn't see me and pulled out right in front of me while I was riding in the right lane of a four lane street. I went to change lanes and heard the engine and rolling tires of a pretty quiet car which was passing me, but not yet in my peripheral vision. So, I rode the dotted white line between lanes, and passed between the two cars. With a helmet on, I'd never have heard that car and would unquestionably have swerved right into its right front fender.

True story.

YumYum
07-07-2011, 08:01 AM
Helmets do kill people, too. That's the whole point being made. As long as a rider has the motorcycle under control... no problem. At the point the rider loses control, all bets are off... it all depends on what happens next. Get tossed down a canyon, into oncoming traffic, hit a bridge abutment or post, or just garner some road rash. It's all a matter of chance once the motorcycle is no longer upright.

Helmets have killed a lot of people. If my math is correct a 3 pound helmet at 60 mph = 180 foot/lbs. That is a lot of instant strain on the neck given an accident which often results in broken necks. That's why states without helmet laws are demonstrating higher safety records than states with helmet laws. And all this was predicted back in the 60's.

Motorcycle helmet manufactures knew this. They lobbied for the laws. Since most people just assume that helmets make sense, then most people will argue for them without doing the research. For the state? The state wins by collecting sales tax on the sale of the helmet, and by ticketing & collecting revenue from riders who go without a helmet.

The state should not be allowed to force people to wear dangerous equipment.

I ride motorcycles. I started off on a 125 Enduro as a little kid. I have owned four wheelers and a YZ 490 (motocross bike). helmets have saved my life on many occasions. I agree that a helmet can sometimes actually be the cause of more harm than good, but I don't think that is the norm.

Travlyr
07-07-2011, 08:13 AM
I ride motorcycles. I started off on a 125 Enduro as a little kid. I have owned four wheelers and a YZ 490 (motocross bike). helmets have saved my life on many occasions. I agree that a helmet can sometimes actually be the cause of more harm than good, but I don't think that is the norm.

The helmet can cause accidents, and it breaks people's necks in certain circumstances. The state should no more force a rider to wear a helmet than they should force you not to wear one.

Let those who ride decide.

acptulsa
07-07-2011, 08:28 AM
I ride motorcycles. I started off on a 125 Enduro as a little kid. I have owned four wheelers and a YZ 490 (motocross bike). helmets have saved my life on many occasions. I agree that a helmet can sometimes actually be the cause of more harm than good, but I don't think that is the norm.

Sounds like you ride off road quite a lot. I'd wear a helmet off road as well. Off road, the big threat isn't other traffic but invisible prairie dog holes. I'd also be far, far more likely to ride in shorts off road, as the occasional rock is far less deadly than asphalt (a far greater threat than head injury imo, but don't let me say that too loudly or full body armor will be next on the legislators' agendas).

Racing, meanwhile, involves rididng only in professional and capable traffic which is all on two wheels and all going the same direction--and generally lound enough to hear through the most well padded helmet. It also involves pushing to the limtis of adhesion. I'd never race without a helmet.

I only ride fairly sedately in traffic, and almost always city traffic. Don't even own a bike (unless you count the bicycle, and I never, ever wear a helmet while riding it either). I have quick reactions, situational awareness and a good instinct for tucking my head in and protecting it. Not everone does, but I do, And, on the flip side, many people have notably wider peripheral vision than I do. So I'm better off with my limited peripheral vision and good hearing undiluted. Period.

But that's just me. Not everyone can claim the same. Someone with poor hearing and excellent peripheral vision will feel differently, and more power to them. So, this:


Let those who ride decide.

Sometimes I think all laws of this type are there to help the mediocre feel better about themselves, or at leasst to protect the mediocre from doing stuff because they feel inadequate. But if America is so idiot proof that those with talent are never allowed to use their talents, then we've lost something. And we have definitely lost something.

Anti Federalist
07-07-2011, 01:42 PM
+ rep and + one.

I avoided an accident because I wasn't wearing a helmet. A car didn't see me and pulled out right in front of me while I was riding in the right lane of a four lane street. I went to change lanes and heard the engine and rolling tires of a pretty quiet car which was passing me, but not yet in my peripheral vision. So, I rode the dotted white line between lanes, and passed between the two cars. With a helmet on, I'd never have heard that car and would unquestionably have swerved right into its right front fender.

True story.

Thanks for the rep and the great personal story.

Anybody who has ridden for any length of time has got one.

Let those who ride, decide.

Anti Federalist
07-07-2011, 01:48 PM
Motorcycles are dangerous. Fact of life that won't be changed by piling on laws.

I was told by a biker cousin when I was very young,

"Ride like the bike, the road and everything out there is trying to kill you.

Personally.

(That part there is critical. I got the same advice when just starting out myself, and that point was stressed more than any other. Put it in your mind that every cage, every other driver, every road, every bike, is out to get your ass on a personal level, you! - AF)

And you will be alright.

Ride with that attitude.

The first time you get on it and think you know what you are doing, you will go down."

Good post and good advice.

mczerone
07-07-2011, 01:52 PM
"When I wear a helmet, I can drive faster and take more risks, because I'm protected."

+rep

Aside from the psychopaths taking our liberties, this is the scariest part of forced "safety" laws: they may protect the dangerous behavior, but they encourage the dangerous to behave more dangerously.

One of the best results of basic law & economics studies was showing that seat-belt laws increased the number of accidents with pedestrians being injured far greater than they saved the lives of drivers.

mczerone
07-07-2011, 01:56 PM
here's the issue, the government build the roads, so them regulating rules on it seems fair to me. You can't ride a a lot of vehicles at all on roads, is that restricting ones freedom?

Lets say you were a private company, and you build roads on your property, shouldn't you be allowed to make rules on travellers on it?

The government provides the FAA, so they should be able to demand certain security procedures, right?

The government provides the police force, so they should be able to demand your obedience to the police force, right?

The government provides the courts, so they should be able to determine the laws that apply, right?

The government provides health care, so they should be able to decide your diet, right?

Anti Federalist
07-07-2011, 01:57 PM
The government provides the FAA, so they should be able to demand certain security procedures, right?

The government provides the police force, so they should be able to demand your obedience to the police force, right?

The government provides the courts, so they should be able to determine the laws that apply, right?

The government provides health care, so they should be able to decide your diet, right?

Bing - go

Anti Federalist
07-07-2011, 02:00 PM
Sometimes I think all laws of this type are there to help the mediocre feel better about themselves, or at leasst to protect the mediocre from doing stuff because they feel inadequate. But if America is so idiot proof that those with talent are never allowed to use their talents, then we've lost something. And we have definitely lost something.

That ^^^ Great point.

Travlyr
07-07-2011, 07:10 PM
Come on folks ,,post your bike.
Okay... okay... this isn't mine... but it looks like fun. :D

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=eb6ef6e5b6&view=att&th=1310697177b0e52f&attid=0.0.1&disp=inline&zw

UWDude
07-08-2011, 11:15 PM
how interesting, the ABATERs I knew called themselves "American Bikers Against Tyrannical Empires"

Anti Federalist
07-08-2011, 11:54 PM
how interesting, the ABATERs I knew called themselves "American Bikers Against Tyrannical Empires"

Already posted in this thread but worth repeating, when I belonged it was called:

A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Enactments

Tarzan
07-09-2011, 01:53 AM
Helmets and personal safety should not be the business of government... neither local or national. I have only had one wreck and I was not wearing my helmet at the time... go figure. But, I wonder what would have happened had I been wearing my helmet. Instead of landing on my back after flipping over the truck, would my center of gravity my rotation to vary enough to make me land on my head had I been wearing my helmet (and snapped my neck). No answer there... just one of those 'my bike crash' stories.

If someone wants to risk leaving a grease smear on the road using their brain it's their own business... so long as I do not have to contribute to their medical expenses whether they survive or not (or burial expenses).

I DO have an issue with eye protection. If you are coming at me in the oncoming lane on a bike... and you take a wasp in your eye... and you wind up in my windshield... then its MY business. So, helmets... no. Eye protection... yes.

And people who text message (etc) and case someone else injury should be dragged from the vehicle and shot on the spot. ;)

libertarian4321
07-10-2011, 06:37 AM
Has anyone nominated this guy for a Darwin award?

A guy who dies of a head injury from not wearing a helmet while protesting helmet laws certainly deserves at least a nomination for a Darwin award.

http://www.darwinawards.com/

The Darwin awards- Honoring those who improve the species...by accidentally removing themselves from it!

libertarian4321
07-10-2011, 06:48 AM
Come on folks ,,post your bike.





Notice that I'm "defending freedom" by not wearing a helmet in this pic.

http://www.redbubble.com/people/grayam/art/2906345-mini-bike-overload

TruckinMike
07-10-2011, 07:03 AM
edit //

Anti Federalist
07-10-2011, 11:31 AM
Has anyone nominated this guy for a Darwin award?

A guy who dies of a head injury from not wearing a helmet while protesting helmet laws certainly deserves at least a nomination for a Darwin award.

http://www.darwinawards.com/

The Darwin awards- Honoring those who improve the species...by accidentally removing themselves from it!

Why am I not surprised?

You really do hate your fellow man don't you?

Seems like almost every post I see from you is extolling the virtues of the death of those that do not meet your "standards".

What a bitter, lonely existence.

showpan
07-10-2011, 05:49 PM
How do I upload a pic from my hard drive so that it shows here?

BlackTerrel
07-10-2011, 05:51 PM
ABATE (American Bikers Aimed for Education)


Pussies.

When I belonged to ABATE back in the day, it stood for A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Enactments.

When I belonged it stood for All Binoculars Are Totally Excellent

heavenlyboy34
07-10-2011, 05:54 PM
How do I upload a pic from my hard drive so that it shows here?
upload it to a photosharing site and then use the insert picture icon when creating a message and copy the photo's url into it.

heavenlyboy34
07-10-2011, 05:55 PM
Why am I not surprised?

You really do hate your fellow man don't you?

Seems like almost every post I see from you is extolling the virtues of the death of those that do not meet your "standards".

What a bitter, lonely existence.
+ a bunch

showpan
07-10-2011, 06:04 PM
upload it to a photosharing site and then use the insert picture icon when creating a message and copy the photo's url into it.

That's what I thought, thanks, I might get around to showing off my first Harley...an 81 Sturgis that I bought as a leftover in 82 when I graduated high school. I still have all the original parts for it. I traded in my 76 Triumph Tiger for it.

The only time I have ever worn a helmet, other than on a dirt bike, was when passing through other states. They are restrictive and dangerous.

acptulsa
07-10-2011, 06:09 PM
That's what I thought, thanks, I might get around to showing off my first Harley...an 81 Sturgis that I bought as a leftover in 82 when I graduated high school. I still have all the original parts for it. I traded in my 76 Triumph Tiger for it.

The only time I have ever worn a helmet, other than on a dirt bike, was when passing through other states. They are restrictive and dangerous.

You can see that I agree.

If your handle means you have a show-quality Panhead, I want to see a pic of that too.

KingRobbStark
07-10-2011, 06:12 PM
I shamefully admit that I laughed at first, then I felt like shit (because his cause was just). I hate you government.

libertarian4321
07-10-2011, 08:27 PM
Why am I not surprised?

You really do hate your fellow man don't you?

Seems like almost every post I see from you is extolling the virtues of the death of those that do not meet your "standards".

What a bitter, lonely existence.

What are you talking about?

I don't hate this guy, I just think he found a completely ridiculous way to die. Flying off a motorcycle and dying of a head injury while protesting helmet laws? C'mon, you've got to admit, that's a pretty spectacular way to go out.

His death should not be in vain. He deserves recognition, that's all I'm saying.

BTW, I'm against mandatory helmet laws, but if people refuse to wear a helmet and suffer the consequences, I reserve the right to call them on their idiocy.

heavenlyboy34
07-10-2011, 09:16 PM
What are you talking about?

I don't hate this guy, I just think he found a completely ridiculous way to die. Flying off a motorcycle and dying of a head injury while protesting helmet laws? C'mon, you've got to admit, that's a pretty spectacular way to go out.

His death should not be in vain. He deserves recognition, that's all I'm saying.

BTW, I'm against mandatory helmet laws, but if people refuse to wear a helmet and suffer the consequences, I reserve the right to call them on their idiocy.

Idiocy? He would have died with or without a helmet in that accident, IMO. The statistics, last I checked, placed the odds of dying from lack of helmet vs with a helmet at about even. Please elaborate.

showpan
07-10-2011, 09:38 PM
You can see that I agree.

If your handle means you have a show-quality Panhead, I want to see a pic of that too.

showpan = pan shovel morph.

acptulsa
07-11-2011, 07:14 AM
showpan = pan shovel morph.

Interesting. Learn something every day. I'm going to have to investigate that hybrid.