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View Full Version : A More Serious Ron Paul Vice Presidential Poll.....Round 2!!!




Eric21ND
07-03-2011, 04:08 AM
Let's try this again with realistic contenders.

Paul Or Nothing II
07-03-2011, 04:20 AM
I choose to write in Rand Paul because - http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?300611-Reminder-Polls-were-proven-accurate-in-2007-8&p=3365860&viewfull=1#post3365860

Eric21ND
07-03-2011, 04:38 AM
I choose to write in Rand Paul because - http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?300611-Reminder-Polls-were-proven-accurate-in-2007-8&p=3365860&viewfull=1#post3365860
Both Ron and Rand said it would be too weird. The public would consider it a gimmick and write them off as a joke. Hence his name being excluded.

Billay
07-03-2011, 04:51 AM
Jim DeMint and Nikki Haley.

Paul Or Nothing II
07-03-2011, 05:05 AM
Both Ron and Rand said it would be too weird. The public would consider it a gimmick and write them off as a joke. Hence his name being excluded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGZj-LlP40I#t=46m5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QSQBBJwenI#t=37m45
Above are a couple of clips where was Ron asked if he'd consider Rand as his VP (& I'm very sure Ron gets this question quite regularly from people) & on both occasions, he said "we haven't talked about it", NOT that they'd never consider it so they're open to that possibility for sure.

In the first clip, Ron clearly says he'd like a VP who'd agree with him & that Rand would.

Rand is the only libertarian-leaning candidate who's NOT an establishment neo-con AND still appeals to the mainstream GOP voters that Ron needs to win the primaries & the GOP nomination AND he'd be best person to carry the torch of liberty in case Ron dies or gets killed.

I'll ask you a simple question - Do you think Ron Paul can go against all the corporatist interests & Fed & all that & they'd just sit around & watch him destroy their power-structure? Would they not try & do what has been attempted many a times against past presidents? So considering that, is it not vital to have a solid VP who will definitely carry the torch of liberty & take the country forward on the Constitutional path that Founders had envisioned? Will selecting a neo-con or non-libertarian-leaning VP ensure that?

As for gimmicks go, gimmicks are what people vote for, be it "first black president", "first lady president" so we can even sell the "first father-son ticket" as a "historic event". We can even evoke the memories of Kennedys, this is the sort of stuff people vote for. And it's not like Rand is a nobody, he's carved his own place within GOP, so much so that many MSM pundits & others thought he'd run for president, hell, he was even polled against Obama & secured 34% So he'd make the best VP on merit alone & he's also a very good speaker (which Ron isn't) & mainstream voters find him very engaging so he'd definitely counter the negative propaganda properly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyQSN3U_vU8&feature=player_embedded

Sentinelrv
07-03-2011, 05:18 AM
he's also a very good speaker (which Ron isn't) & mainstream voters find him very engaging so he'd definitely counter the negative propaganda properly.

I would argue that Ron Paul is the better speaker for the Libertarian crowd than Rand, because he speaks the truth regardless of the consequences and it gets us excited. Rand though does a better job of crafting the message for all types of people. The consequence of altering the message though is that I and other Libertarians find him less appealing or exciting than Ron. This caused many of us here to not fully trust him when he was running for senate, though we now realize he's the same as his father, just with a different way of communicating the message to people. Like somebody said on here before, Ron hits you with a 2x4 of truth. The way he delivers his message can be very powerful to us, though it alienates many people that don't think the same way he does. That said, even though I like Ron's speaking abilities better because he speaks directly to me, Rand's speaking ability is more powerful because he can use it to reach more people.

TruckinMike
07-03-2011, 07:12 AM
So far, the only reason that Rand should not be chosen is because it would be too weird.

--- waiting for the right moment is paramount. RP^2!!!

Zarn Solen
07-03-2011, 07:14 AM
I really think Napolitano should be a SCOTUS pick, not a VP.

newyearsrevolution08
07-03-2011, 07:25 AM
I voted for Jim but personally I don't care who is in the 2nd slot because once Ron Paul is in that main seat there odds are won't be a ton for the vp to do compared to previous vp's and their so called "duties".

VoluntaryAmerican
07-03-2011, 07:31 AM
I voted for Jim but personally I don't care who is in the 2nd slot because once Ron Paul is in that main seat there odds are won't be a ton for the vp to do compared to previous vp's and their so called "duties".

Yeah I concur. VP is only good for campaigning and hopefully he has similiar views to Ron. If so he/she is good by me.

Paul Or Nothing II
07-03-2011, 08:33 AM
So far, the only reason that Rand should not be chosen is because it would be too weird.

--- waiting for the right moment is paramount. RP^2!!!

Yeah, it's funny isn't it, that's the best thing people've got :D Some are thinking about Rand2016 but there mightn't be any such thing if a socialist covert-dictator (be it Obama or Romney) like FDR takes over during tumultous times; during bad economic times, people definitely do endorse socialism, FDR kept giving people misery & they kept re-electing him, that's how people tend to be so we've to throw everything we've got RIGHT NOW & for the reasons I've already expounded on, Rand is our best chance from many angles.


I voted for Jim but personally I don't care who is in the 2nd slot because once Ron Paul is in that main seat there odds are won't be a ton for the vp to do compared to previous vp's and their so called "duties".


Yeah I concur. VP is only good for campaigning and hopefully he has similiar views to Ron. If so he/she is good by me.

I'd like to urge you guys to consider some of the following questions -

Do you think Ron Paul can go against all the corporatist interests & Fed & all that & they'd just sit around & watch him destroy their power-structure? Would they not try & do what has been attempted many a times against past presidents? So considering that, is it not vital to have a solid VP who will definitely carry the torch of liberty & take the country forward on the Constitutional path that Founders had envisioned? Will selecting a neo-con or non-libertarian-leaning VP ensure that in case something happens to Ron?

So in this light, is VP such a trivial position in the case of Ron Paul?

Uriah
07-03-2011, 09:30 AM
Ron Paul has mentioned Chuck Hagel as someone he would support and Dennis Kucinich as someone he agrees with on most issues.

Pro-Life Libertarian
07-03-2011, 09:37 AM
If this was a serious poll an economist wouldn't be one of the choices, and a Superior court judge is suspect.

The question says which would "strengthen" the Paul ticket.

With Paul's age people want somebody younger. But that person also has to be someone that they could be comfortable with as the President, which is why I don't think Williams or Napolitano(Supreme Court or Attorney General!) would be good choices.

Haley is young, attractive, and part Indian(though not a huge voting block). I think she might be a Sarah Palin type asset, both the good and the bad. She is smarter than Palin but hasn't been in office long.

Fortuno is young and Latino. The Latino voting block might shift away from Obama if there is one of their own on the other ticket. Would people be comfortable with him in office? Puerto Rico is small, but it is still executive experience. He would be an asset in the Florida elections.

DeMint is at a good age for politicians. Not too young and not too old. I think he would really bring the GOP behind this ticket. Very conservative and a smooth talker. People would be comfortable with him in office I think.

I can't really make up my mind on which of those three would be the best, but all three would be excellent.

To those who have suggested Dennis Kucinich: No Republican would be comfortable with him as President, so if we are going after the anti-war left than an endorsement would so just fine, but he cannot be VP.

Uriah
07-03-2011, 09:48 AM
To those who have suggested Dennis Kucinich: No Republican would be comfortable with him as President, so if we are going after the anti-war left than an endorsement would so just fine, but he cannot be VP.

If Dr. Paul was nominated and chose Kucinich as his running mate I don't think Republicans would vote for Obama over Paul.

Michael Landon
07-03-2011, 09:48 AM
I'm still thinking Goldwater Jr. would be my favorite.

- ML

IDefendThePlatform
07-03-2011, 09:54 AM
Judge Nap. Outstanding spokesperson for liberty and the constitution. He would absolutely own Biden in the VP debates.

MelissaWV
07-03-2011, 09:56 AM
Why is Fortuno on this list if it's "serious"? Other than looking at whether someone has experience and what ethnicity/race someone is, I would hope the first step would be whether or not they are the right fit for the job of VP in a Ron Paul presidency.

specsaregood
07-03-2011, 09:58 AM
I really think Napolitano should be a SCOTUS pick, not a VP.

Please show me where it is forbidden for a VP to step down and take a SCOTUS nomination should a position open up.

Zarn Solen
07-03-2011, 10:21 AM
Why pick him as VP, if the intention would be to get him on SCOTUS? It makes him seem less political, too.

evilfunnystuff
07-03-2011, 10:22 AM
Please show me where it is forbidden for a VP to step down and take a SCOTUS nomination should a position open up.


Who'd be Veep then?

Pro-Life Libertarian
07-03-2011, 10:24 AM
Who'd be Veep then?

Someone that voters would be comfortable with.......

AlexMerced
07-03-2011, 10:29 AM
Why is Fortuno on this list if it's "serious"? Other than looking at whether someone has experience and what ethnicity/race someone is, I would hope the first step would be whether or not they are the right fit for the job of VP in a Ron Paul presidency.

His ethnicity is a political benefit but...

Fortuno has executive experience with SUCCESS, Puerto Rico has improved under his watch with consistently conservative polilices, plus he articulates them in a very exceiting way in my opinion.

He's a very serious choice and he is good be diplomatic with both sides making him perfect for overseeing the senate.

evilfunnystuff
07-03-2011, 10:31 AM
Picking a Veep is going to be very difficult.

I'd kinda like to steer clear of Rand if possible, but its hard to think of anyone else solid.

I'd support the Judge, but as others have said that would be a great appointment for the SC.

Can't trust Demint, I'm shocked so many here seem to.

Kucinich, really? I like the guy on a few issues, and hes a nice enough guy... but really?

Johnson may not be a bad choice, to be honest I never looked into him as deep as I should have.

Zarn Solen
07-03-2011, 10:39 AM
I agree, Alex.

I also think Daniels would help with his recent fight on abortion and dedication to actually being fiscally conservative.

That's why I think Fortuno and Daniels would be excellent picks, IMHO. Maybe both should be in the administration.

Rand is very helpful to have in the Senate. How many Senators can we say are fi-cons?

Fermli
07-03-2011, 10:41 AM
Rand is the safest, non-controversial choice.

Shane Harris
07-03-2011, 10:44 AM
If this was a serious poll an economist wouldn't be one of the choices, and a Superior court judge is suspect.

The question says which would "strengthen" the Paul ticket.

With Paul's age people want somebody younger. But that person also has to be someone that they could be comfortable with as the President, which is why I don't think Williams or Napolitano(Supreme Court or Attorney General!) would be good choices.

Haley is young, attractive, and part Indian(though not a huge voting block). I think she might be a Sarah Palin type asset, both the good and the bad. She is smarter than Palin but hasn't been in office long.

Fortuno is young and Latino. The Latino voting block might shift away from Obama if there is one of their own on the other ticket. Would people be comfortable with him in office? Puerto Rico is small, but it is still executive experience. He would be an asset in the Florida elections.

DeMint is at a good age for politicians. Not too young and not too old. I think he would really bring the GOP behind this ticket. Very conservative and a smooth talker. People would be comfortable with him in office I think.

I can't really make up my mind on which of those three would be the best, but all three would be excellent.

To those who have suggested Dennis Kucinich: No Republican would be comfortable with him as President, so if we are going after the anti-war left than an endorsement would so just fine, but he cannot be VP.

this

specsaregood
07-03-2011, 10:46 AM
Why pick him as VP, if the intention would be to get him on SCOTUS? It makes him seem less political, too.

Because there is no guarantee that Dr. Paul would ever get to nominate a SCOTUS pick? A position has to open up ya know.


Who'd be Veep then?

Whomever Dr. Paul felt like filling the position at that time?

Shane Harris
07-03-2011, 10:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGZj-LlP40I#t=46m5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QSQBBJwenI#t=37m45
Above are a couple of clips where was Ron asked if he'd consider Rand as his VP (& I'm very sure Ron gets this question quite regularly from people) & on both occasions, he said "we haven't talked about it", NOT that they'd never consider it so they're open to that possibility for sure.

In the first clip, Ron clearly says he'd like a VP who'd agree with him & that Rand would.

Rand is the only libertarian-leaning candidate who's NOT an establishment neo-con AND still appeals to the mainstream GOP voters that Ron needs to win the primaries & the GOP nomination AND he'd be best person to carry the torch of liberty in case Ron dies or gets killed.

I'll ask you a simple question - Do you think Ron Paul can go against all the corporatist interests & Fed & all that & they'd just sit around & watch him destroy their power-structure? Would they not try & do what has been attempted many a times against past presidents? So considering that, is it not vital to have a solid VP who will definitely carry the torch of liberty & take the country forward on the Constitutional path that Founders had envisioned? Will selecting a neo-con or non-libertarian-leaning VP ensure that?

As for gimmicks go, gimmicks are what people vote for, be it "first black president", "first lady president" so we can even sell the "first father-son ticket" as a "historic event". We can even evoke the memories of Kennedys, this is the sort of stuff people vote for. And it's not like Rand is a nobody, he's carved his own place within GOP, so much so that many MSM pundits & others thought he'd run for president, hell, he was even polled against Obama & secured 34% So he'd make the best VP on merit alone & he's also a very good speaker (which Ron isn't) & mainstream voters find him very engaging so he'd definitely counter the negative propaganda properly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyQSN3U_vU8&feature=player_embedded

and this

evilfunnystuff
07-03-2011, 10:48 AM
Rand is the safest, non-controversial choice.

If he gets to pick a VP, it isn't gonna matter as long as they are more conservative than Obama, And whoever Ron picks will probably be more conservative than most "conservative" politicians.

specsaregood
07-03-2011, 10:49 AM
Johnson may not be a bad choice, to be honest I never looked into him as deep as I should have.

Dr. Paul will never pick a VP that isn't as adamantly pro-life as he is. Ain't gonna happen, thus Johnson is out.

evilfunnystuff
07-03-2011, 10:54 AM
Thought I posted this here already, maybe I posted in the wrong thread.

I'm diggin Fortuno so far.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gcExoF_qTo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt0dQy0xXH8&feature=player_embedded#at=513

Zarn Solen
07-03-2011, 11:12 AM
It's worth it to see if a position opens up. He's just better to have as a potential SCOTUS pick. The VP should be someone that could take the mantle, after Paul has served or in case Paul needs someone to step up. The judge should stay with his area of expertise.

Andrew-Austin
07-03-2011, 11:14 AM
Are people voting Napolitano just because they like him, or because they actually think it will help?

Paul Or Nothing II
07-03-2011, 11:21 AM
Rand is the safest, non-controversial choice.


and this

Well, at least I've got some support on Rand :D He clearly is the best choice from many many angles for the reasons I've expounded on.

Choosing a neo-con/non-libertarian president just doesn't make sense when Ron is going against Fed & all the other powers, it's not going to smooth-sailing & we ought to have a decent backup.

skyorbit
07-03-2011, 11:22 AM
You need somebody with Ron Paul for the VP. Otherwise he'll get assassinated and the VP will just do whatever the machine wants. It needs to be Walter Williams, or Judge Napolitano.

Tracy

Zarn Solen
07-03-2011, 11:29 AM
If you don't expand the horizons by trying to bring the Republican Party over to Paul's side, then his victory will be nothing, and his first term will reverse nothing. You can't do that by being exclusive. Ron Paul needs to be inclusive, so his platform is now mainstream. It won't be, if his party is excluded. They will simply team up with the Dems, effectively limiting Paul in trying to minimize the size of the federal government. Some Republicans you can bring over. Some will be more resistant. Others will simply join up, because small government is how they are going to get elected. However, Paul will get no support, if he antagonizes the rest of his own party. He needs to be a coalition builder and use that to accomplish what needs to get done.

cheapseats
07-03-2011, 11:32 AM
Rand is the safest, non-controversial choice.


I couldn't disagree more.

Paul Or Nothing II
07-03-2011, 11:39 AM
You need somebody with Ron Paul for the VP. Otherwise he'll get assassinated and the VP will just do whatever the machine wants. It needs to be Walter Williams, or Judge Napolitano.

Tracy

I agree with the first part that they'll likely try to kill Ron but choosing Judge or Williams doesn't help much in expanding Ron's currently stagnant base at around about 8-10% & it has taken FOUR YEARS to get there so it's not going to grow rapidly all of a sudden considering that GOP-establishment, MSM & mainstream GOP voters dislike Ron so he's going to need to pick someone who'll back him up nicely but also appeals to mainstream GOP voters otherwise, Ron has almost no chance of winning the GOP nomination & the only such guy is Rand Paul, he appeals to mainstream GOP & he's a strongly libertarian-leaning candidate.

falconplayer11
07-03-2011, 12:46 PM
Ken Cuccinelli, Attorney General of Virginia, would be a perfect Ron Paul VP. Really exciting, loved by Virginians (won in a landslide), huge fiscal conservative, and perhaps the most influential figure in the attempt to repeal Obamacare by fighting against the constitutionality of the individual mandate. He is also a social conservative, but as just AG, has really not had an opportunity to turn that into real policy. Thus, neocons/religious right will like him, even though he will not be contradicting himself by refusing to pander to religious right social issues (marriage amendment, anti-drug, etc.) like Paul.

I'm telling you, this guy is awesome. 44 years old. Really hip. Ron Paul-endorsed. Very funny. Great speaker. Huge on the Constitution. Great guy to carry on the torch, too, after Paul. He's not as libertarian as Paul, but is absolutely NOT a compromiser on issues of fiscal conservatism. Even refused to get his children a social security # because he doesn't believe he should have too!

See videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ulMhO6j1OM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdBYgz6JS-w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LkniAWrV3w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RphQ3VsqnWQ

reduen
07-03-2011, 01:50 PM
So far judge nap is winning hands down.... ;)

stefank
07-03-2011, 02:10 PM
I pick Milhouse

Fortuño has been mentioned by former Minnesota governor and Republican presidential candidate Tim Pawlenty as a potential running mate in the 2012 U.S. presidential election

Eric21ND
07-03-2011, 03:26 PM
I voted for Jim but personally I don't care who is in the 2nd slot because once Ron Paul is in that main seat there odds are won't be a ton for the vp to do compared to previous vp's and their so called "duties".
My thoughts exactly. The VP position is there, especially in Ron's case, basically to serve as a cheerleader for the nominee. Rand will already be cheering on Ron with his endeavors and arguing the case for his dad. The VP should preferably be young, and a minority of some sort. Those characteristics would score us some major points with many voting blocs.

Eric21ND
07-03-2011, 03:29 PM
Ron Paul has mentioned Chuck Hagel as someone he would support and Dennis Kucinich as someone he agrees with on most issues.
Hagel is somewhat a forgotten entity at this point and Kucinich is a proud socialist in many regards AND a democrat. Not once, not ever!

Eric21ND
07-03-2011, 03:38 PM
If this was a serious poll an economist wouldn't be one of the choices, and a Superior court judge is suspect.

The question says which would "strengthen" the Paul ticket.

With Paul's age people want somebody younger. But that person also has to be someone that they could be comfortable with as the President, which is why I don't think Williams or Napolitano(Supreme Court or Attorney General!) would be good choices.

Haley is young, attractive, and part Indian(though not a huge voting block). I think she might be a Sarah Palin type asset, both the good and the bad. She is smarter than Palin but hasn't been in office long.

Fortuno is young and Latino. The Latino voting block might shift away from Obama if there is one of their own on the other ticket. Would people be comfortable with him in office? Puerto Rico is small, but it is still executive experience. He would be an asset in the Florida elections.

DeMint is at a good age for politicians. Not too young and not too old. I think he would really bring the GOP behind this ticket. Very conservative and a smooth talker. People would be comfortable with him in office I think.

I can't really make up my mind on which of those three would be the best, but all three would be excellent.

To those who have suggested Dennis Kucinich: No Republican would be comfortable with him as President, so if we are going after the anti-war left than an endorsement would so just fine, but he cannot be VP.
Excellent post! I agree with everything you said. I only included Judge Napolitano and Water Williams because Ron has mentioned them before when VP selection has been brought up. I'm with you, I think any of the three you mentioned (Demint, Haley, or Fortuno) would be a shrewd VP selection, especially Fortuno, with him we could likely win Florida and be competitive in other regions as well, New Mexico and Arizona perhaps.

I'm not too disappointed choosing one of those three over someone like Napolitano or Williams, because they would most likely be in Ron's cabinet anyway. Why anyone would want to hide a person as charismatic and nationally known as Judge Napolitano on the Supreme Court is beyond me. He'd be a much better fit where he could inform the public, such as Attorney General.

Eric21ND
07-03-2011, 03:46 PM
His ethnicity is a political benefit but...

Fortuno has executive experience with SUCCESS, Puerto Rico has improved under his watch with consistently conservative polilices, plus he articulates them in a very exceiting way in my opinion.

He's a very serious choice and he is good be diplomatic with both sides making him perfect for overseeing the senate.
When making cutbacks in Puerto Rico, he also took a paycut of his own salary and everyone in his administration did the same. I remember Dr. Paul talking about doing the same if he was President. That in itself raises my view of the man 10 fold.

AJ Antimony
07-03-2011, 04:29 PM
Can someone explain how the Puerto Rico governor is eligible?

The question being asked here is sort of meaningless. Who is the best VP choice to strengthen the overall ticket with Paul?

If the idea is to really energize Republican voters, then the best candidates to address this question would be either Paul Ryan, Chris Christie, Scott Walker, or Rick Perry, and probably in that order.
If the idea is to be more competitive in the GE, then Gary Johnson or Mitt Romney would probably be the best options to strengthen the ticket.

Ultimately, I don't think the question being asked is meaningful at all because I think we all know Ron would never pick someone to work in his administration who doesn't agree with him on economic policy, monetary policy, domestic policy, AND foreign policy.

So as far as Ron's REALISTIC candidates for VP, I think he's got Johnson, Napolitano, and a bunch of little-known non-office holders.

MelissaWV
07-03-2011, 04:49 PM
Can someone explain how the Puerto Rico governor is eligible?


He'd be eligible for the same reasons that anyone else would: age, residency, citizenship, etc..

tpreitzel
07-03-2011, 05:58 PM
Chuck Baldwin is the only logical choice for 2012 ... the objections to his selection have been already refuted elsewhere.

Paul4Prez
07-03-2011, 06:18 PM
How about none of the above? I have great respect for Williams and Napolitano, but neither one has the qualifications or experience to be taken seriously by the media or the voters. I'm not familiar with Fortuno, and I'm not certain that Haley and DeMint are really allies. With Ron Paul being a revolutionary candidate, his VP has to be someone he can trust implicitly.

Gary Johnson is the only serious candidate I could see meeting all of the necessary criteria, except for maybe Rand Paul, but there's something that feels unAmerican about putting your son or daughter next in line for the presidency.

Eric21ND
07-03-2011, 06:25 PM
Chuck Baldwin is the only logical choice for 2012 ... the objections to his selection have been already refuted elsewhere.
About 0.000000001% of the public know who he is.

Someone with executive experience > unknown "churchy" pastor.

The Binghamton Patriot
07-03-2011, 06:28 PM
How come no inclusion of Pat Buchanan? He's the only known conservative to have a proven non-interventionist foreign policy. He agrees with Ron on almost everything, and would pull TONS of social cons that are currently worshiping Bachman.

Eric21ND
07-03-2011, 06:36 PM
How about none of the above? I have great respect for Williams and Napolitano, but neither one has the qualifications or experience to be taken seriously by the media or the voters. I'm not familiar with Fortuno, and I'm not certain that Haley and DeMint are really allies. With Ron Paul being a revolutionary candidate, his VP has to be someone he can trust implicitly.

Gary Johnson is the only serious candidate I could see meeting all of the necessary criteria, except for maybe Rand Paul, but there's something that feels unAmerican about putting your son or daughter next in line for the presidency.
Walter Williams and Judge Napolitano are actually fairly well-respected figures in academia and the media. They are also held in high regard from a number of GOP voters. Williams actually sits in for Rush from time to time like the Judge does for Beck.

Now with that aside, please get to know Luis Fortuno, he might be the shrewdest choice of them all when you do an across the board benefit analysis.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt0dQy0xXH8

Eric21ND
07-03-2011, 06:41 PM
How come no inclusion of Pat Buchanan? He's the only known conservative to have a proven non-interventionist foreign policy. He agrees with Ron on almost everything, and would pull TONS of social cons that are currently worshiping Bachman.
Pat Buchanan is old. We need someone young and fresh to balance the ticket in the eyes of voting public. Pat is also a protectionist in terms of trade policy, at least he used to be. Pat seems to enjoy the role he has now in the media and writing books. He was asked about it once before and his response was standoffish....lukewarm at best! Oh and he really wouldn't help the ticket that much, except with old socio-cons.

MelissaWV
07-03-2011, 06:52 PM
Seriously, why this sudden push for Fortuno? Because you liked what he did on a few things? Dude, the guy's a personal pain in my butt. I STILL have to submit for my new birth certificate (thanks?) that was mandated because my old one did not have "enhanced security" incorporated into it. I cringe to think what that might entail. That's the guy you think compliments Ron Paul's platform?

Wait, maybe it's his stand on taxation...


A 10-digit lottery number on a crumpled Church’s Chicken receipt is Governor Luis Fortuno’s solution for pulling Puerto Rico from its “lost decade” and may salvage his popularity.

The number, printed at a Ponce restaurant by a machine that reports sales directly to the Commonwealth’s Treasury, seeks to turn every Puerto Rican into an enforcement agent. The program will give anyone with a receipt a chance to win $1,000 or a car, while forcing businesses to report and pay taxes.

Well, maybe it's the 17%~ish unemployment on the island, helped along by the ridiculous laws and web of taxation hoops that still persist, even though people have been complaining about them for decades; I mean THAT screams experience right there.

I'm not impressed with him as a Ron Paul running mate. I don't see him as nearly half as valuable as people are suddenly trying to make him out to be.

tpreitzel
07-03-2011, 06:55 PM
About 0.000000001% of the public know who he is.

Someone with executive experience > unknown "churchy" pastor.

Not exactly an accurate characterization ... ;) Chuck was head of a very large denomination in Florida prior to moving to Montana and the Constitution Party's nominee for POTUS. He'd be an excellent choice and I suspect Ron would eventually pick someone similar to Chuck if not Chuck himself. I could be wrong, though.

Eric21ND
07-03-2011, 07:18 PM
Seriously, why this sudden push for Fortuno? Because you liked what he did on a few things? Dude, the guy's a personal pain in my butt. I STILL have to submit for my new birth certificate (thanks?) that was mandated because my old one did not have "enhanced security" incorporated into it. I cringe to think what that might entail. That's the guy you think compliments Ron Paul's platform?

Wait, maybe it's his stand on taxation...



Well, maybe it's the 17%~ish unemployment on the island, helped along by the ridiculous laws and web of taxation hoops that still persist, even though people have been complaining about them for decades; I mean THAT screams experience right there.

I'm not impressed with him as a Ron Paul running mate. I don't see him as nearly half as valuable as people are suddenly trying to make him out to be.
I just heard of him the other day on here. So far he's checking all the boxes a worthy VP contender should have. Having someone on the ticket with executive experience is a huge positive! He also has private sector experience, again very solid footing here. He's a slash and burn cutter on government spending, in this atmosphere that's even more important than in past election cycles. He's young and fresh, that would help balance the ticket with Ron who's age make voters hesitate. We all know Ron has young ideas, which is great, but the public likes superficial things such as this. He's a minority, so we could finally dispel the myth that Ron is racist in any regard. He's a Hispanic minority, which would help Ron win a crucial battleground state like Florida, and would make us competitive in other states, like New Mexico. We could actually steal the entire Hispanic voting bloc away from Obama in the general election. They could actually turn some previous blue/purple states red...Florida, New Mexico, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Nevada, etc. Fortuno is also very well-spoken. We're never going to find the perfect VP choice unless you clone Ron. Just saying he's checking a lot boxes for me.

MelissaWV
07-04-2011, 08:08 AM
I just heard of him the other day on here. So far he's checking all the boxes a worthy VP contender should have. Having someone on the ticket with executive experience is a huge positive! He also has private sector experience, again very solid footing here. He's a slash and burn cutter on government spending, in this atmosphere that's even more important than in past election cycles. He's young and fresh, that would help balance the ticket with Ron who's age make voters hesitate. We all know Ron has young ideas, which is great, but the public likes superficial things such as this. He's a minority, so we could finally dispel the myth that Ron is racist in any regard. He's a Hispanic minority, which would help Ron win a crucial battleground state like Florida, and would make us competitive in other states, like New Mexico. We could actually steal the entire Hispanic voting bloc away from Obama in the general election. They could actually turn some previous blue/purple states red...Florida, New Mexico, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Nevada, etc. Fortuno is also very well-spoken. We're never going to find the perfect VP choice unless you clone Ron. Just saying he's checking a lot boxes for me.

Oh wow... so you're going off of the fact you just heard about him and viewed some YouTubes, and the ridiculous assumption that having a Puerto Rican on the ticket is going to nab "the Hispanic vote." He won't even nab all of the "Puerto Rican vote" because a lot of folks disagree on his aggressive push for statehood, and a lot of the people whose relatives lost jobs due to the slashes in government jobs don't exactly have a soft spot for him. People like me who've had to jump through hoops to try to get a new copy of our no-longer-valid birth certificate don't adore the guy, either. When considering that "little" thing, please realize how incompatible that is with Ron Paul's ideas. Imagine the amount of waste that goes into revoking everyone's birth certificate who's island-born, then requiring them to pay in to get a new one. The idea of this being "for safety" is trumped by the fact that you don't have to be there in person, anyhow, to get your new certificate.


The Government of Puerto Rico has enacted a new law (Law 191 of 2009 as Amended) aimed at strengthening the issuance and usage of birth certificates to combat fraud and protect the identity and credit of all people born in Puerto Rico.

The new law was based on collaborations with the U.S. Department of State and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to address the fraudulent use of Puerto Rico-issued birth certificates to unlawfully obtain U.S. passports, Social Security benefits, and other federal services, and to commit other types of identity theft and fraud.

Right now? My family (except for me, since I have a valid passport, and even that would be iffy) has no proof of citizenship other than our word. That's kind of a pain in the ass. The law was supposedly put into effect because we have to show our birth certificate for a bunch of stuff, so they invalidated our birth certificates. That makes fiscal sense?

Anyhow, it's a small personal example. He speaks well and he's youngish and he's a minority. Shoot, it sounds like Obama should be up there as a VP choice!

Incidentally, I do enjoy the comic error on the law I was discussing earlier:


Any registration of birth, marriage, or death ordered by a court with the appropriate jurisdiction shall include the word „Tardía‟ or „Delayed.‟ ”

A comma after "death" would change the meaning of this sentence quite nicely. :D

specsaregood
07-04-2011, 08:32 AM
The VP should preferably be young, and a minority of some sort. Those characteristics would score us some major points with many voting blocs.

Well hell, why isn't Rubio on the list? Rubio would be great if we are just trying to fill some list of groups. Maybe we can put out an announcement that Dr. Paul is looking for an half-jewish, half-evangelical, half-black, half-latino orphan adopted and raised by asian lesbians to nominate as VP. That'd really fill out the ticket.

Eric21ND
07-04-2011, 10:19 AM
Oh wow... so you're going off of the fact you just heard about him and viewed some YouTubes, and the ridiculous assumption that having a Puerto Rican on the ticket is going to nab "the Hispanic vote." He won't even nab all of the "Puerto Rican vote" because a lot of folks disagree on his aggressive push for statehood, and a lot of the people whose relatives lost jobs due to the slashes in government jobs don't exactly have a soft spot for him. People like me who've had to jump through hoops to try to get a new copy of our no-longer-valid birth certificate don't adore the guy, either. When considering that "little" thing, please realize how incompatible that is with Ron Paul's ideas. Imagine the amount of waste that goes into revoking everyone's birth certificate who's island-born, then requiring them to pay in to get a new one. The idea of this being "for safety" is trumped by the fact that you don't have to be there in person, anyhow, to get your new certificate.



Right now? My family (except for me, since I have a valid passport, and even that would be iffy) has no proof of citizenship other than our word. That's kind of a pain in the ass. The law was supposedly put into effect because we have to show our birth certificate for a bunch of stuff, so they invalidated our birth certificates. That makes fiscal sense?

Anyhow, it's a small personal example. He speaks well and he's youngish and he's a minority. Shoot, it sounds like Obama should be up there as a VP choice!

Incidentally, I do enjoy the comic error on the law I was discussing earlier:



A comma after "death" would change the meaning of this sentence quite nicely. :D
Well if you have this magical mystery VP candidate let's hear it. Some on this forum have to come to terms with reality, otherwise this is just an exercise in futility. And I'm sorry, but the birth certificate things just sounds like a bunch of whining from you. Maybe I'm just tired.

Eric21ND
07-04-2011, 10:21 AM
Well hell, why isn't Rubio on the list? Rubio would be great if we are just trying to fill some list of groups. Maybe we can put out an announcement that Dr. Paul is looking for an half-jewish, half-evangelical, half-black, half-latino orphan adopted and raised by asian lesbians to nominate as VP. That'd really fill out the ticket.
What a dumb ridiculous comment.

specsaregood
07-04-2011, 10:24 AM
Well if you have this magical mystery VP candidate let's hear it. Some on this forum have to come to terms with reality, otherwise this is just an exercise in futility.

Way to pick up the status quo talking points; Sean Hannity et al would be proud. And yes, the rpf members debating and "voting" on a VP pick is an exercise in futility as we won't have any say in the matter and if Dr. Paul does win the nomination I'm sure he has a shortlist of his own and it will have nothing to do with collectivist traits but rather philosophy and moral character.


What a dumb ridiculous comment.
And yet so true.

Eric21ND
07-04-2011, 06:25 PM
Way to pick up the status quo talking points; Sean Hannity et al would be proud. And yes, the rpf members debating and "voting" on a VP pick is an exercise in futility as we won't have any say in the matter and if Dr. Paul does win the nomination I'm sure he has a shortlist of his own and it will have nothing to do with collectivist traits but rather philosophy and moral character.


And yet so true.
You're too narrow in your thinking. Our polling numbers have been pretty stagnant or falling lately and we'd need to appeal to voters outside of RP forums, that's why people like Demint, Haley, Fortuno, etc should get serious consideration. The only person we could probably all agree upon would be Judge Napolitano, but I'm not how much he'd help the ticket in hard numbers.

MelissaWV
07-04-2011, 06:46 PM
Well if you have this magical mystery VP candidate let's hear it. Some on this forum have to come to terms with reality, otherwise this is just an exercise in futility. And I'm sorry, but the birth certificate things just sounds like a bunch of whining from you. Maybe I'm just tired.

Yeah, forcing millions of people to get new birth certificates with "enhanced security features" isn't a big deal, especially when it totally flies in the face of all your propping up of this guy for being in favor of slashing Government this way and that. :rolleyes:

I don't need to come up with a magical mystery VP candidate. I need to get Dr. Paul past the primaries so it can become a "worry" for him, since he's the one who knows what's best for himself. If you'd stop fawning over some guy who showed up on your YouTube as an alleged hero of austerity measures, you might figure out that he's a crappy choice for all the reasons I've listed, and more. It's insulting you think that "the Hispanic vote" is this solid group that will just follow whomever's got a Hispanic last name and a bit of a tan. You wouldn't even get the pro-independence and status quo Puerto Ricans on board with this guy, let alone all the Cubans, Mexicans, South Americans, Central Americans, Dominicans, etc., across this country. Your premise is flawed.

specsaregood
07-04-2011, 06:52 PM
You're too narrow in your thinking.
pfft. I'm not limited at all I just think it is funny that you are suggesting Dr. Paul pick a VP based on superficial external traits. It is almost as if you know nothing about the man.

Eric21ND
07-04-2011, 09:03 PM
pfft. I'm not limited at all I just think it is funny that you are suggesting Dr. Paul pick a VP based on superficial external traits. It is almost as if you know nothing about the man.
I'm thinking general election here. This is getting way ahead of ourselves true, but that's what makes this kind of speculation fun. And the names I listed aren't too much of a stretch, hell people were advocating Sarah Palin on these forums in early 2007 way before she blew up in the media.

S.Shorland
07-05-2011, 02:53 AM
If Ron does get in,most people won't know what a Libertarian is.They will have voted him in mostly because of their bellies (that is what it comes down to).He'll need someone he can trust completely.I voted Andrew N because Rand wasn't there and I trust him completely.It has to be a Libertarian until people start to think Libertarian on their own.

Well, at least I've got some support on Rand :D He clearly is the best choice from many many angles for the reasons I've expounded on.

Choosing a neo-con/non-libertarian president just doesn't make sense when Ron is going against Fed & all the other powers, it's not going to smooth-sailing & we ought to have a decent backup.

Paul Or Nothing II
07-05-2011, 03:09 AM
Our polling numbers have been pretty stagnant or falling lately and we'd need to appeal to voters outside of RP forums, that's why people like Demint, Haley, Fortuno, etc should get serious consideration.

Yes, his numbers are stagnant & falling that's why he needs to declare a VP BEFORE the primaries but Haley & Fortuno do NOTHING for him in that respect because they're nobodys on the national GOP stage, & NO, media is NOT going to "fawn" over them as I've said because media does NOT work for Ron, it works for people that Ron is running AGAINST ie the establishment & the big money corporatists & I don't see them killing their power-structures by helping elect Ron by "fawning' over Haley or Fortuno.

As for DeMint, as I've said before, Ron has already clarified that he'd like someone who'll agree with him on the issues - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGZj-LlP40I#t=46m5
And DeMint being pro-wars, pro-nation-building & pro-Patriot Act, Ron & him won't agree on Ron's VERY IMPORTANT campaign issues like foreign wars & personal liberties so there's no chance Ron will ever choose him & he'd be right on that.


The only person we could probably all agree upon would be Judge Napolitano, but I'm not how much he'd help the ticket in hard numbers.

No, I don't think eveyone agrees on Judge either, many have expressed dissatisfaction over his probable selection.


I need to get Dr. Paul past the primaries so it can become a "worry" for him,

As I've said, it's taken FOUR YEARS for Ron's support to go from 2-3% to 8-10%, how much more will he be able to gather at this measly rate you think in the remaining FEW MONTHS before primaries start? Especially when you consider that he's running against the establishment & the big money corporatists who'll do everything to keep him down so if he doesn't declare someone who's ALREADY popular among mainstream GOP voters, he has almost no chance of winning the primaries & the GOP nomination.

Even in 2008, a lot of us kept hoping & hoping that some miracle would happen & Ron's support would skyrocket all of a sudden but obviously, it never happened & it's UNREALISTIC to think any miracle will happen this time.


It's insulting you think that "the Hispanic vote" is this solid group that will just follow whomever's got a Hispanic last name and a bit of a tan. You wouldn't even get the pro-independence and status quo Puerto Ricans on board with this guy, let alone all the Cubans, Mexicans, South Americans, Central Americans, Dominicans, etc., across this country. Your premise is flawed.

+1

It's unrealistic to think that we'll any significant hispanic voters just because of Fortuno, not to mention he's a nobody on the national GOP stage.


I'm thinking general election here.

As I've said above, there'd likely be no General Election for Ron, just like the last time, UNLESS we stop being "conventional" all the time & be innovative to secure the primaries & the GOP nomination first; desperate times call for desperate measures.

Paul Or Nothing II
07-05-2011, 03:24 AM
If Ron does get in,

There's a MASSIVE "if" there, that's like putting cart before the horse.


most people won't know what a Libertarian is. They will have voted him in mostly because of their bellies (that is what it comes down to).

That's the problem, most people don't know what libertarianism is & media has lead them to believe that it's some loony ideology designed to benefit the rich & shun the poor & having that label is what makes them think that Ron some loony guy & that's why most of them aren't voting for him.

Sure, people do "vote from their bellies" but that doesn't mean they'll vote for Ron. They'll vote for Ron IF they THINK he'll take care of their bellies better than other candidates & as I've said, most of them already think he's a loony libertarian because media tells them so & we don't have the resources to spread the right information QUICKLY & that's why it's taken us FOUR YEARS to go from 2-3% to 8-10% & it's completely UNREALISTIC to think that those numbers are going to skyrocket all of a sudden when media is constantly working AGAINST us.

Ron NEED a mainstream Republican as VP who can bring us the mainstream GOP voters & Rand is the best & safest choice in that sense.


He'll need someone he can trust completely.I voted Andrew N because Rand wasn't there and I trust him completely.It has to be a Libertarian until people start to think Libertarian on their own.

Rand is just as trustworthy AND he appeals to the mainstream GOP voters, he was even touted by the MSM pundits & others as a potential presidential runner & he was even run against Obama in the polls for presidency so he's way more popular among mainstream GOP voters than Judge so he'll be way more helpful for Ron in securing the GOP nomination, if he's declared VP before the primaries & then please consider this scenario - http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?300611-Reminder-Polls-were-proven-accurate-in-2007-8&p=3365860&viewfull=1#post3365860

Imperial
07-05-2011, 03:27 AM
You wouldn't even get the pro-independence and status quo Puerto Ricans on board with this guy, let alone all the Cubans, Mexicans, South Americans, Central Americans, Dominicans, etc., across this country. Your premise is flawed.

Quick note: the pro-independence folks in Puerto Rico are mostly associated with the radical, and formerly violent, left.

Talking records, Fortuno had a pretty good interview with Reason Magazine (http://http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCQQtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Freason.tv%2Fvideo%2Fshow%2Fpuerto-rico-governonr-luis-for&ei=wdcSTtv0AYKmsAK16uXUDw&usg=AFQjCNEqUeFJiwt4y384akFmW4wB5ngaDA) that I greatly enjoyed, although I am more skeptical of PPPs than he is. (there are shorter videos and text write-ups of the interview online). He also had some issues with how he responded to students who shut down the campus of at least one university in Puerto Rico, although I cannot remember details.

I think Fortuno would be a good pick, but I still think the best option is Governor Mitch Daniels of Indiana. Distinct libertarian tendencies, friendly with the establishment, well-liked by the political center, executive record of getting stuff done to contrast with Dr. No, and a solid string of policy successes. Yes, we would have some disagreements with what he has done in Indiana but I would consider him as a general ally.

Paul Or Nothing II
07-05-2011, 03:46 AM
but I still think the best option is Governor Mitch Daniels of Indiana. Distinct libertarian tendencies, friendly with the establishment, well-liked by the political center, executive record of getting stuff done to contrast with Dr. No, and a solid string of policy successes. Yes, we would have some disagreements with what he has done in Indiana but I would consider him as a general ally.

Yes, Daniels is one of better options among all the nobodys & neo-con suggestions but the only concern I have is if he'd be a trustworthy pick or not, especially because he gets along with the establishment. But his libertarian-leaning tendencies are confirmed & yes, he's actually gotten some of the libertarian stuff done. Another issue with him would be that he's not specified his positions on many national issues, the most important of which would be foreign policy which I'm very skeptical of, & based on what I've heard of him, he doesn't seem to have the oratorical skills of Rand with an ability to engage regular people.

But as I've said, if he's deemed trustworthy & clarifies on some of his nebulous positions then he'd definitely be one of the options along with Rand & definitely way better than noname-nobodys &/or non-libertarians &/or neo-cons that have been suggested so far.

TheViper
07-06-2011, 11:56 PM
I'm going to write in Gerald Celente.

Imperial
07-07-2011, 04:57 PM
Yes, Daniels is one of better options among all the nobodys & neo-con suggestions but the only concern I have is if he'd be a trustworthy pick or not, especially because he gets along with the establishment. But his libertarian-leaning tendencies are confirmed & yes, he's actually gotten some of the libertarian stuff done. Another issue with him would be that he's not specified his positions on many national issues, the most important of which would be foreign policy which I'm very skeptical of, & based on what I've heard of him, he doesn't seem to have the oratorical skills of Rand with an ability to engage regular people.

But as I've said, if he's deemed trustworthy & clarifies on some of his nebulous positions then he'd definitely be one of the options along with Rand & definitely way better than noname-nobodys &/or non-libertarians &/or neo-cons that have been suggested so far.

From what I have heard he is willing to cut defense spending and I thought I remembered some skepticism on Afghanistan. I could be wrong on the Afghanistan part though.

Paul Or Nothing II
07-08-2011, 01:24 AM
I'm going to write in Gerald Celente.

Please read the thread, the purpose of picking a VP before the primaries is to expand Ron's measly 8-10% base so it'd've to be someone who resonates with the mainstream republican voters, & considering Ron's age, it'd've to be someone who's seen as presidential by the general public & thereby someone who's been elected to a public office.


From what I have heard he is willing to cut defense spending and I thought I remembered some skepticism on Afghanistan. I could be wrong on the Afghanistan part though.

If I'm not mistaken, there was talk of him running for the presidency & then he said he's not in a position to debate Obama on the foreign policy or something but again, even though he can be considered, his popularity & oratorical skills just don't match up with those of Rand & again, his relationship with the establishment too concerns me.