libertygrl
06-30-2011, 01:38 PM
I've had a week long online debate with Republicans regarding their support of Bachmann and of her stance with Israel, vs. Ron Paul's stance on non-entangling alliances with foreign nations.
For this one particular guy, support of Israel is personal because his family has suffered anti-semitism. So he welcomes the support of evangelicals and a politician like Bachmann. But how can I explain to him that just because some people don't agree with Israel's policies, it doesn't mean that it's a personal attack on Jews.
He also voiced his opinion on Ron Paul and thinks we are a bit too fanatical in our support for him:
Here's what he wrote:
I merely feel that in a global economy, we must maintain the ability to protect our interests, supply chains, etc. Personally, I think we should probably have 1/10th the bases & troops on foreign shores that we do, especially in this age where technology allows us to react swiftly at great distances. I've made the case from the beginning that we've always done so, with the original example of protecting our trade in the Mediterranean from the Barbary pirates by maintaining a fleet there in the early 1800's. And our allies should pitch in & protect themselves. Ever since WWII, for some unknown reason, we've taken on the role as the world's cop letting them skate - that must end.
As to Bachmann's foreign policy being based on religion, I admit, the quote does trouble me to an extent. I winced when I saw the "cursed" comment, as well. The difference between us on this one is that as a strong proponent of Israel, I have come to realize that Evangelicals are the most ardent supporters of that nation & I'll take all the help I can get.
I don't believe in subsidizing other countries either. The day we stop foreign aid across the board, I'm with you. Israel, for a tiny nation, has a vibrant economy and is fairly well equipped to defend herself. But as long as we're playing this game, I have no problem supporting the only country in the region that feels the same about the rights of her citizens, as we do. Especially one that is completely surrounded by nations vowing her destruction, outnumbered 100-1 & comes with a unique history stemming from ancient times through the Holocaust. If we're giving money to Pakistan - a country that hates & subverts us, why wouldn't we do the same for a true ally? If we stop this nonsense altogether, then we can allow Israel to buy the defensive weaponry she can't produce herself. And don't forget that Israel has added quite a lot technologically to our own military capabilities.
If I over-reacted here, it's because I have seen an alarming rise of Anti-semitism throughout the world in an effort to de-legitimize Israel's right to exist. The parallels of what's being said in Europe & the college campuses here in the US to the 1930's is striking & very scary. If you are unaware of this & want examples, I could give you hundreds. If I was accusatory towards you, I apologize, but warning bells are going up all over the place & I'm on high alert. As someone who's family suffered its share of anti-Jewish atrocities over the years, I will fight it at every turn.
As to the lesser of 2 evils issue, I've argued this one with hard-code Libertarians for years. (I keep hearing platitudes like that one & the classic, "insanity is doing the same thing & expecting different results", as the reason we MUST vote for Ron Paul. Don't get me wrong, I like most of what RP stands for, but some of his positions scare me as well. For some reason though, RP engenders an almost fanatical devotion by his followers & that scares me more than the candidate himself. I'm not implying this is you, but many of his followers treat him like the new Messiah, as the Lefties did Obama. That's no less unhealthy, even if the main theme is Liberty. I have a huge dose of scepticism where ALL politicians are concerned. I revere none of them.
I'm a realist. I know I'm never going to find someone with whom I agree 100% of the time. It's not compromising my principles to "settle" for the one with whom I agree most of the time & support them, warts & all. For the moment, I see Bachmann that way & feel she has a better chance than RP to defeat Obama - which is the imperative.
I didn't mind standing on principle & essentially throwing away my vote because I knew it wouldn't count for anything in NY. But a few years of speaking to hundreds of people & every poll I've seen says RP doesn't resonate with mainstream, unaffiliated voters in the middle, who decide everything. I'm not sure Bachmann does either, but in my judgement she has the better shot & so for the moment, I'm supporting her.
For this one particular guy, support of Israel is personal because his family has suffered anti-semitism. So he welcomes the support of evangelicals and a politician like Bachmann. But how can I explain to him that just because some people don't agree with Israel's policies, it doesn't mean that it's a personal attack on Jews.
He also voiced his opinion on Ron Paul and thinks we are a bit too fanatical in our support for him:
Here's what he wrote:
I merely feel that in a global economy, we must maintain the ability to protect our interests, supply chains, etc. Personally, I think we should probably have 1/10th the bases & troops on foreign shores that we do, especially in this age where technology allows us to react swiftly at great distances. I've made the case from the beginning that we've always done so, with the original example of protecting our trade in the Mediterranean from the Barbary pirates by maintaining a fleet there in the early 1800's. And our allies should pitch in & protect themselves. Ever since WWII, for some unknown reason, we've taken on the role as the world's cop letting them skate - that must end.
As to Bachmann's foreign policy being based on religion, I admit, the quote does trouble me to an extent. I winced when I saw the "cursed" comment, as well. The difference between us on this one is that as a strong proponent of Israel, I have come to realize that Evangelicals are the most ardent supporters of that nation & I'll take all the help I can get.
I don't believe in subsidizing other countries either. The day we stop foreign aid across the board, I'm with you. Israel, for a tiny nation, has a vibrant economy and is fairly well equipped to defend herself. But as long as we're playing this game, I have no problem supporting the only country in the region that feels the same about the rights of her citizens, as we do. Especially one that is completely surrounded by nations vowing her destruction, outnumbered 100-1 & comes with a unique history stemming from ancient times through the Holocaust. If we're giving money to Pakistan - a country that hates & subverts us, why wouldn't we do the same for a true ally? If we stop this nonsense altogether, then we can allow Israel to buy the defensive weaponry she can't produce herself. And don't forget that Israel has added quite a lot technologically to our own military capabilities.
If I over-reacted here, it's because I have seen an alarming rise of Anti-semitism throughout the world in an effort to de-legitimize Israel's right to exist. The parallels of what's being said in Europe & the college campuses here in the US to the 1930's is striking & very scary. If you are unaware of this & want examples, I could give you hundreds. If I was accusatory towards you, I apologize, but warning bells are going up all over the place & I'm on high alert. As someone who's family suffered its share of anti-Jewish atrocities over the years, I will fight it at every turn.
As to the lesser of 2 evils issue, I've argued this one with hard-code Libertarians for years. (I keep hearing platitudes like that one & the classic, "insanity is doing the same thing & expecting different results", as the reason we MUST vote for Ron Paul. Don't get me wrong, I like most of what RP stands for, but some of his positions scare me as well. For some reason though, RP engenders an almost fanatical devotion by his followers & that scares me more than the candidate himself. I'm not implying this is you, but many of his followers treat him like the new Messiah, as the Lefties did Obama. That's no less unhealthy, even if the main theme is Liberty. I have a huge dose of scepticism where ALL politicians are concerned. I revere none of them.
I'm a realist. I know I'm never going to find someone with whom I agree 100% of the time. It's not compromising my principles to "settle" for the one with whom I agree most of the time & support them, warts & all. For the moment, I see Bachmann that way & feel she has a better chance than RP to defeat Obama - which is the imperative.
I didn't mind standing on principle & essentially throwing away my vote because I knew it wouldn't count for anything in NY. But a few years of speaking to hundreds of people & every poll I've seen says RP doesn't resonate with mainstream, unaffiliated voters in the middle, who decide everything. I'm not sure Bachmann does either, but in my judgement she has the better shot & so for the moment, I'm supporting her.