Does anyone else wonder why in 30 years there's only been one Ron Paul (like) Congressman?

[RCA]

I know power corrupts, but shouldn't the Congressional liberty hopeful statistics be slightly better than .001% in 30 years? Just some food for thought while trying to see things from a broader perspective.

[Esoteric]

I thought about this too. I think it's just because principled libertarianism is not what traditionally wins elections. The very art of being a successful politician is being able to appease the most people and talk out of both sides of your mouth, rather than calling it as you see it. Goldwater conservatives were essentially libertarians, until about 1980 when the whole concept of "social conservatism" came into existence.

[pcosmar]

Perhaps because the others were killed or run out of office.

A few names come to mind.

[qh4dotcom]

You forgot Rand...now there are two of them

[treyfu]

It's the system. When you coercive organization rooted in theft and violence, those most skilled at violent thievery will rise to the top.

[Nastynate]

I thought Larry McDonald was pretty good. Also Rand Paul, but you do have a valid point.

[Wiserphil]

And Jim Traficant.

[brandon]

Because it's nearly impossible for an honest person to win an election.

[Grubb556]

Public schools teach that government is inherently good?

[Travlyr]

Perhaps because the others were killed or run out of office.

A few names come to mind.

This is the way I see it too. Before the Fed took over in 1913 there were several statesman in congress, but the money changers got rid of them the very next election cycle. Since then most all of them have been "hand picked" by the status quo.

[josh b]

It's the system. When you coercive organization rooted in theft and violence, those most skilled at violent thievery will rise to the top.

Exactly. Our system trains career douche bags.

[pcosmar]

Exactly. Our system trains career douche bags.

It's common to our society as a whole.(sadly) Honesty and Integrity are rare and precious.

[ConvertedRepublican]

I thought Larry McDonald was pretty good. Also Rand Paul, but you do have a valid point.

Thank you for mentioning McDonald. I was pretty young when the airliner he was on was shot down. He was a Democrat and a true conservative.

[acptulsa]

He wasn't and isn't. He just stuck the longest. Remember the old mantra:

We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful.

It takes a stubborn man to keep racking up those 434-1 votes.

[Napoleon's Shadow]

It's a mix of things to be able to do what Ron does...

1- being a professional and financially suited (so that you can afford to run and lose)
2- going after a weakened incumbent, a swing seat, or an open seat; neither of which happens often in any specific given geographic area
3- actually being of a libertarian or limited government / Constitutional philosophical foundation
4- understanding the nature of politics and not getting co-opted by the establishment by refusing to give in to pressure or "bribes"
5- able to win primary reelection without help of the establishment
6- being clean with very few or even no skeletons in one's closet


Those 5 combinations are VERY rare among those who are interested and wanting to get involved in politics

[LibertyEagle]

Most people like Ron Paul, Barry Goldwater or Larry McDonald, do not like big government and the people who seem to flock around it. So, they don't run for office that often. Also, if you're an honest person, you don't attract the payola from special interests that grease their way into office.

[AGRP]

Public schools teach that government is inherently good?


It's the system. When you coercive organization rooted in theft and violence, those most skilled at violent thievery will rise to the top.

x2

Its a systemic problem, but things are getting much better.

Who would have thought neocons would be complaining about a thriving "isolationist" strain within the Republican party?

[RCA]

Most of the answers seem to point towards the "system". So the next question is what to do about the "system"?

[Inkblots]

I thought Larry McDonald was pretty good. Also Rand Paul, but you do have a valid point.

Well, it's been nigh on 30 years since he was killed, so the point still stands. However, Ron Paul hasn't been completely alone. People like John Hostettler of Indiana, Walter Jones of NC (in recent years), and now new folks like Justin Amash have been present to stand with Ron at various points in his career.

[acptulsa]

Most of the answers seem to point towards the "system". So the next question is what to do about the "system"?

Fine question. How does one make society less shallow?

They seem to be doing the most in this cause by robbing us blind. Beyond that, well, the best attempt I know of is our own Constitution. Otherwise..?

[emazur]

How common was it in the last 30 years for Ron Paul-like Congressman to get the party nomination but then lose? In 2010 I know of John Dennis (CA), Art Robinson (OR), Delia Lopez (OR), and BJ Lawson (NC?)

[nelsonwinters]

Check out Congressman George Hansen. I recommend checking out his tragic story as Ron Paul cited him in his resignation letter from the GOP in 1987.

[AGRP]

Most of the answers seem to point towards the "system". So the next question is what to do about the "system"?

To keep doing what people are doing and have patience.

Its only been 3 years since Ron Paul and his message has reached the masses. To even have the GOP neocon establishment worried about a growing "isolationist" streak within this very short period of time is a huge success.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

I just think in general libertarian minded people do not want to be associated with government.

[RCA]

Fine question. How does one make society less shallow?

They seem to be doing the most in this cause by robbing us blind. Beyond that, well, the best attempt I know of is our own Constitution. Otherwise..?

That was the perceived solution in 1787.

[AJ Antimony]

No I don't wonder that because the reason why is simple: his complete package of beliefs is not desired by most American voters. SOME will like him being anti-war, SOME others will like him being anti-tax, but voters just haven't cared for his total package.

By 'total package' I'm even referring to his behavior in Congress. You can find many voters who would like their Rep. or Sens. to enroll in, rather than fight, the old-boy system so that they can have more power and thus more money back home. Then there's the misconception that passing legislation = he's doing his job. So all in all, the reason there aren't a lot of Ron Pauls in Congress is that simply most American's don't believe what he believes.

But there's been more than 1 Ron Paul-like member of Congress. How about: Justin Amash, Rand Paul, maybe Mike Lee, Goldwater, Goldwater Jr., maybe Jeff Flake

[FreedomProsperityPeace]

I often hear the saying "people get the government they deserve", and I think that's true here. From what I've seen, voters elect the guy they think is going to do something for them, whether it be entitlements, subsidies, stimulus checks, or whatever.

Ron Paul offers LIBERTY, and unfortunately, most Americans don't put much value on that. Being free means being responsible for yourself and working for your own rewards, and that doesn't sell. People want to be handed things on a silver platter, as if just by the virtue of the fact you're an American and live in "the richest country in the world", that means you're entitled to live like you're rich. Americans today want a Greece-like society, where the government hands out all the riches even if it means we'll be dead broke in less than a decade.

Now I'm making myself angry. :o

[RCA]

I often hear the saying "people get the government they deserve", and I think that's true here. From what I've seen, voters elect the guy they think is going to do something for them, whether it be entitlements, subsidies, stimulus checks, or whatever.

Ron Paul offers LIBERTY, and unfortunately, most Americans don't put much value on that. Being free means being responsible for yourself and working for your own rewards, and that doesn't sell. People want to be handed things on a silver platter, as if just by the virtue of the fact you're an American and live in "the richest country in the world", that means you're entitled to live like you're rich. Americans today want a Greece-like society, where the government hands out all the riches even if it means we'll be dead broke in less than a decade.

Now I'm making myself angry. :o


Yet another "system" reason. The system marches onward.

[jack555]

Americans have been brought up to believe that bigger government is a good thing. It is also natural for government without proper checks and balances to grow larger with time. To most Americans the idea of more government to fix probems is common sense. So people like Ron Paul who say lets shrink the government end up with a minority opinion.

And the media and status quo try and destroy anyone who challenges big government.

[kah13176]

Current Congressman Walter Jones, strong opponent of intervention and the Fed.
Justin Amash of course.

HR Gross from a while ago:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._R._Gross#Fiscal_conservatism

[mconder]

Mike Lee is pretty good.

[DeadheadForPaul]

Mike Lee, Amash, and Chaffetz - while not libertarian - are certainly deserving of praise

[anaconda]

You forgot Rand...now there are two of them

Possibly also Amash & Lee. Could also make a stretch case for Kucinich. But I think that maxes it out. 4 or 5. But 2010 was a crack in the dam. Rand is priceless.

[Napoleon's Shadow]

Could also make a stretch case for Kucinich. Uhh.... not really.... he voted for government run healthcare. He's good on some issues, just like some Republicans are. But overall, he often votes for bigger government, just like they do.

[RCA]

Naming two or three other Congressmen who have served for 2 years or less raises the liberty percentage from .001% to .0015% over the last 30 years, further solidifying my point. There ARE deeper issues at heart.

[anaconda]

Uhh.... not really.... he voted for government run healthcare. He's good on some issues, just like some Republicans are. But overall, he often votes for bigger government, just like they do.

But I think Dennis actually believes that big government can be accountable, transparent, and peaceful. And can provide infrastructure that provide large economic returns to the people. He's not into big government to steal people blind and create a police state grid. He and Obama are far far apart ideologically. Obama is a criminal tool and knowingly chooses that path.

Dennis voted against the bailouts:

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20081006_dennis_kucinich_on_the_democrats_bailout_ betrayal/

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/6995

[ord33]

Hardly anyone mentions John "Jimmy" Duncan (R from TN). He was against the wars, against the Patriot Act, against all the bailouts, is very fiscally conservative, and has had one of the most Ron Paul like voting record for well over a decade. You will be hard pressed to find another politician (other than Dr. Paul) that has had a solid voting record with the consensus of this board over the past 20 years that is for sure! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Duncan_(U.S._politician)

[cindy25]

the Goldwaters (Sr was in the senate, jr in the house)

[Fermli]

I'm more shocked that the number isn't zero. Ron is a statistical improbability.

[hard@work]

How does one make society less shallow?


Free them. It's hard to be "shallow" when you are responsible for yourself and rely on the voluntary good nature of others. That was the founders' great experiment, and it's true today.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_McDonald <---- This man should be remembered.

[LibertyMage]

Because libertarians would rather sit in the comfort of non-challenging actions than politically organize.

[pcosmar]

Free them. It's hard to be "shallow" when you are responsible for yourself and rely on the voluntary good nature of others. That was the founders' great experiment, and it's true today.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_McDonald <---- This man should be remembered.

Yup, And there are several others. There are folks that left public office after coming face to face with corruption.
John Decamp for instance. He still fights but as an attorney.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_DeCamp
Georgia Senator Nancy Schaefer, She was killed.

There have been others who in some way have opposed corruption and paid a price. Whether they were libertarian or Constitutionalists or not. They hit the wall.

[acptulsa]

Who else besides a powermongering psychopath or a simple attention whore wants to live in a fishbowl? Do you?

Give up your privacy to protect everyone else's, whether they appreciate you for it or not. Such a deal.

[cindy25]

there is only one Ron Paul; he was in the right district at the right time (Texas switching from Dem to Rep); but there were good congressmen, Terry Sanford was considered Libertarian when in the house; Walter Jones has become quite good; Paul Bruan is ok, as is Jeff Flake. Mike Gravel was a good senator, and Charles Whalen who died today seemed like a good congressman. Eugene McCarthy brought down LBJ, Gerry Ford brought back the right to own gold. not perfect but more good than they were bad.

[Watch]

I have faith in the people that we can change the system. The system is in and of itself the people, for it reflects back at them. Attitude reflects leadership.

[hazek]

To the OP:

Simple as pie. You have to have a spotless record and be morally super sound and get unbelievably lucky if you stand up to the establishment and their media propaganda trying to get elected. It's almost virtually impossible.

[BarryDonegan]

Because most politicians have skeletons in their closet, and any time they take a good position some special interest pays to dig up the dirt and blast it in the media. Ron Paul is immune to this stuff because he doesn't ever do anything morally questionable.

[Mattsa]

I know power corrupts, but shouldn't the Congressional liberty hopeful statistics be slightly better than .001% in 30 years? Just some food for thought while trying to see things from a broader perspective.

My goodness!

You are SOOOOO lucky to have Ron Paul

In the UK, we don't have anyone with his influence and certainly nobody who can motivate people in such an amazing way

[acptulsa]

My goodness!

You are SOOOOO lucky to have Ron Paul

In the UK, we don't have anyone with his influence and certainly nobody who can motivate people in such an amazing way

Thanks for the kind words. But, in fact, this was a long time coming, and looks more extensive on the 'net than it does on the ground. Simply put, we're trying to reclaim what once we had. The kids don't know it, or find it out when they join up with us older hands. But it's true.

Try being a voice calling in your own wilderness for a while--say twenty or thirty years. It just might amaze you in the end.

[eproxy100]

Who else besides a powermongering psychopath or a simple attention whore wants to live in a fishbowl? Do you?

Give up your privacy to protect everyone else's, whether they appreciate you for it or not. Such a deal.

I highlighted a keyword there. People are sheeps. They have always been. It's written all over history. Psychopaths have the specific traits that are advantageous in controlling the sheeps. Psychopaths are also the ones who are motivated to take these positions of power for their own advantage.

That's why I was surprised nobody cared about this thread discussing psychopaths: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?298827-Psychopaths-make-the-perfect-politicians!

BTW, in that thread the word "psychopath" is used in its clinical definition.

[anaconda]

Hardly anyone mentions John "Jimmy" Duncan (R from TN). He was against the wars, against the Patriot Act, against all the bailouts, is very fiscally conservative, and has had one of the most Ron Paul like voting record for well over a decade. You will be hard pressed to find another politician (other than Dr. Paul) that has had a solid voting record with the consensus of this board over the past 20 years that is for sure! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Duncan_(U.S._politician)

Had not heard of Representative Duncan. Paul/Duncan 2012!

[anaconda]

My goodness!

You are SOOOOO lucky to have Ron Paul

In the UK, we don't have anyone with his influence and certainly nobody who can motivate people in such an amazing way

What about Daniel Hannan?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU3t2c92UK8

[anaconda]

I'm more shocked that the number isn't zero. Ron is a statistical improbability.

When I first found out about Ron Paul in 2007 I was flabbergasted that someone with his platform actually existed and actually got elected to the Congress.

[PaulConventionWV]

Perhaps because the others were killed or run out of office.

A few names come to mind.

But then that begs the question, why did Ron Paul survive? Maybe he has a secret band of ninjas...

[PaulConventionWV]

I think this all goes to show you, Ron Paul is a diamond in the rough. Why people don't realize this and just vote for the guy, is beyond me. He would make HISTORY! What's more, he's one of the most unlikely people you would expect... he can do politics with the best of them, but he looks like just a clumsy old man. The man truly amazes me, and has been very inspirational in both of his runs. I've learned a lot over the years.

[acptulsa]

You answered your own question. He survived because the psychopaths didn't think they had anything to fear from the clumsy old man. Which is good in one way--they tried to paint us as a 'cult of personality', but anyone can see you don't build those around the Ron Pauls of the world. So, we were able to make their slurs look goofy once again.

And his band of ninjas isn't all that secret, brother ninja.

[GunnyFreedom]

To add to the list: Robert Taft, Jesse Helms...

It's hard being an extreme minority, it's even harder when the person in question doesn't like being a politician.

These people have existed and served, usually one or two at a time from all over the nation in turns.

I have more hope today that ever before, because for the first time this philosophy is sparking up all over the place at the same time.

Instead of one guy from Arizona who serves until he is burned out, to be replaced by one guy in NC who serves until he is burned out, to be replpaced by one guy in Texas who serves until he is burned out, we finally have the pieces in place for a lot of guys from all over the place to serve at the same time.