McDonald's as the Paradigm of Progress

[Cutlerzzz]

http://mises.org/daily/5411/McDonalds-as-the-Paradigm-of-Progress

I agree with Tucker, McDonalds is a great restaurant.

[Travlyr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FtW5RQXVXg

Unfair competition? $Millions in fed bailout money couldn't have hurt their bottom line.

[Cutlerzzz]

Tucker covers that briefly.

[showpan]

Who the hell can make it on less than $100 a week? Their food sucks and they treat their employees like crap. While they may be a model of capitalism...they are making people fat and increasing their risk of heart failure. We have one Mcd's in town here and the employees can barely speak English. I will not eat that crap.
Watch Sicko, it's an awesome documentary.
This country will never make it as a service economy and hiring at McDonalds does not count as lower unemployment.

[Cutlerzzz]

McDonalds has never made a single person fat, and service sector jobs are important. LOTS of people are happy to work at McDonalds for some time, especially part time employees, low skilled workers, or immigrants. I think it is great that McDonalds is willing to give employment oppertunities to poor immigrants that can't speak english.

[Uriel999]

I once weighed 245 lbs. I got fat because of my own fault not because of a restaurant. You cannot blame a business for selling a product that is desirable to customers. Just because it isn't healthy doesn't mean people cannot intelligently decide whether or not they want to consume it. This applies to food, booze, tobacco and illegal drugs too

[Vessol]

Thanks for posting this. There really does seem to be a lot of unwarrented hate towards McDonalds.

They are offering unhealthy food and low paying wages voluntarily.

They are not using force. They are a successful company in a storm of government regulation and inflation.

[Anti Federalist]

Thanks for posting this. There really does seem to be a lot of unwarrented hate towards McDonalds.

They are offering unhealthy food and low paying wages voluntarily.

They are not using force. They are a successful company in a storm of government regulation and inflation.

McDonald's gets a waiver from Obamacare compliance that the fellow running the local grill in my town (which serves much better food and pays it's employee's better) cannot get.

WalMarx of fast food.


McDonald's, 29 other firms get health care coverage waivers

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2010-10-07-healthlaw07_ST_N.htm

[showpan]

Yeah. it's real great that there are over 25 Million Americans who need a real job and McDonalds is the only one hiring.....it's also great that you are willing to give an immigrant a job when there are over 25 MILLION Americans who need a real job. I never claimed they didn't force people to eat their food or work for low wages but when there are MILLION's of illegal immigrants here willing to work for lass and take their crap...it creates an unfair advantage as it keeps American citizens out of work and artificially lowers pay scales. Just more government interference in an unfree market.

As far as the health risks you are advocating, it's like preaching the benefits of smoking....lol

Junk food could be addictive 'like heroin'
The researchers found that rats offered junk food quickly became so attached to it that they would endure painful but harmless electric shocks to their feet in order to eat it. They would even prefer to starve themselves rather than eat the "salad bar option" of the typical rodent food eaten by rats that had never had junk food.

When the scientists analysed the brains of the junk-food rats they found that a key pleasure-reward system known to be involved in triggering drug addiction in humans was overstimulated, causing the animals to eat more and more food in order to enjoy the same chemical "high" felt in their brains.

"It presents the most thorough and compelling evidence that drug addiction and obesity are based on the same underlying neurobiological mechanisms," said Professor Paul Kenny at the Scripps Research Institute in Jupiter, Florida
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/junk-food-could-be-addictive-like-heroin-1929982.html

McDonald’s fries pose danger to human reproductive function
http://english.pravda.ru/society/family/11-02-2006/75807-mcdonalds-0/

Protect your children: The dangers associated with places like McDonalds & Chuck E Cheese
http://www.helium.com/items/160431-protect-your-children-the-dangers-associated-with-places-like-mcdonalds-chuck-e

I'll have a burger and fries with everything -- hold the ammonia
http://www.walletpop.com/2010/01/04/ill-have-a-burger-and-fries-with-everything-hold-the-ammonia/

What's in Fast Food? What's in the Non-Chicken Half of the McNugget
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercola/whats-infast-food_b_805190.html

McDonald's recall puts spotlight on cadmium's dangers
http://www.canada.com/health/McDonald+recall+puts+spotlight+cadmium+dangers/3120514/story.html

The Dangers of Chicken McNuggets and Fast Food
http://www.doctormercola.com/articles/uncategorized/the-dangers-of-chicken-mcnuggets-and-fast-food/

Health Risks Of McDonald’s Food
http://www.love-organic-food.com/health-risks-of-mcdonalds-food.html

How Bad Is McDonald's Food?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-robbins/how-bad-is-mcdonalds-food_b_754814.html

If you hate your kids, feed them Mc Donald's.
http://www.chimachine4u.com/poison.html

Fast Food's Hidden Dangers
http://www.fa-ir.org/ai/fastfood_hidden.htm

McDonald's Diet Dangers
http://mcproposal.com/DietDangers.html

McDonald's Makes Even Oatmeal Bad for You
http://www.newser.com/story/112707/mcdonalds-makes-even-oatmeal-bad-for-you.html

15 Horrifying Reasons to Never Let Anyone You Love near a McDonald’s
http://www.binscorner.com/pages/1/15-horrifying-reasons-to-never-let-anyon.html

Dangers of Hot Chips or Fries
http://welladjustedbabies.com/dangers-of-hot-chips-or-fries/

Documentary showing ill health effects of McDonald’s food may be pressuring the fast food chain to pay attention to diet, nutrition and health
http://www.naturalnews.com/000990.html

McDonalds’ new Favorites Combo meal is a health hazard
http://furiouspurpose.me/2011/02/20/mcdonalds-new-favourites-combo-meal-is-a-health-hazard/

McDonald’s, Subway Sub Oatmeal among Five Worst “Healthy” Fast Foods
http://www.pcrm.org/newsletter/jun11/worst_healthy_fast_foods.html

What is worse: to eat at McDonald's or to work there?
http://www.helium.com/items/1829113-working-at-mcdonalds

Why McDonald's May Be Worse Than Marlboros
http://www.fitsugar.com/Obesity-Poses-Bigger-Threat-Health-Than-Smoking-Does-6925114

Cheap Eats for Hard Times: The Five Most Unhealthful Fast Food “Value Menu” Items
http://www.cancerproject.org/media/news/cheapeats_findings.php

McDonald's China defends chemical used in Chicken McNuggets
http://www.walletpop.com/2010/07/06/mcdonalds-china-defends-chemical-used-in-chicken-mcnuggets/

Eating at McDonalds
http://hubpages.com/hub/Eating-at-McDonalds

How Bad Is McDonald’s Food?
http://asweetlife.org/a-sweet-life-staff/featured/how-bad-is-mcdonalds-food/12012/

The Disadvantages of Eating McDonald's
http://www.ehow.com/info_8361058_disadvantages-eating-mcdonalds.html

Chicken McNuggets are 50% trash!
http://www.healing-blog.com/mcdonalds

McDonalds – I am so not Lovin’ it!
http://www.medimanage.com/my-diet/articles/mcdonalds-i-am-so-not-lovin%E2%80%99-it.aspx

What are the harmful effects of eating McDonald's hamburgers?
http://ask.alibaba.com/Q/803347212-What-are-the-harmful-effects-of-eating-McDonalds-hamburgers.html

A Lesson From McDonalds
http://www.downtoearth.org/health/general-health/lesson-mcdonalds

Chicken McNuggets Contain Disturbing Additives
http://healthinmotion.wordpress.com/2010/07/25/chicken-mcnuggets-contain-disturbing-additives/

McDonalds sued for making children obese
http://media.www.gwhatchet.com/media/storage/paper332/news/2002/11/25/UWireDcBureau/Mcdonalds.Sued.For.Making.Children.Obese-333119.shtml

Is McDonald’s betraying Our Kids?
http://organicconnectmag.com/wp/2011/05/is-mcdonalds-betraying-our-kids/

The Dangers of Chicken McNuggets and Fast Food
http://www.madhealth.net/the-dangers-of-chicken-mcnuggets-and-fast-food/

Anti-McDonald’s Commercial Could Save Lives
http://crazysexylife.com/2011/anti-mcdonald%E2%80%99s-commercial-could-save-lives/

Is McDonald's Betraying Our Kids By Barraging Them With Junk Food Ads?"
http://www.all-creatures.org/health/fh-betraying.html

Chicken McPoison – a Review of the Ingredients
http://www.truthistreason.net/chicken-mcpoison-a-review-of-the-ingredients

Overweight teens file fat lawsuit against McDonald's
http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/archive/index.php/t-23754.html

Local mother angered by McDonald’s deception
http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=5709&page=1

10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)
http://www.cqs.com/beef.htm

Parents Petition McDonald’s to Stop Marketing Junk Food to Kids
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/parents-petition-mcdonald%E2%80%99s-to-stop-marketing-junk-food-to-kids

McDonald's McNuggets Contain Silly Putty Ingredient
http://thestir.cafemom.com/toddler/106177/mcdonalds_mcnuggets_contain_silly_putty

Methane Emissions from McDonald’s
http://savelivestock.com/2011/03/01/methane-emissions-from-mcdonalds/

The dangerous, The Indestructible Food! (McDonald’s burger!!)
http://hasnain.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/the-dangerous-the-indestructible-food-mcdonalds-burger/

50% of McDonald chicken is Chemical - ill health effects
http://forum.healingdao.com/general/message/21056%5C

McDonald’s is bad, but is Subway the Real Devil in Disguise?
http://fyiliving.com/diet/special-diets/diabetes-diet/25000th-big-mac-mcdonalds-is-bad-but-is-subway-the-real-devil-in-disguise/

McDonald’s accused of Selling Cancer-Causing Chicken
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aH1MWERjUvpI

McDonald's Unhygienic Food
http://www.articlesbase.com/nutrition-articles/mcdonalds-unhygienic-food-4824910.html

Health Department Had Issues with Illinois McDonald's
http://foodpoisoning.pritzkerlaw.com/archives/hepatitis-a-health-department-had-issues-with-illinois-mcdonalds.html

McDonald's, Burger King and other fast food chains accused of selling cancer-causing grilled chicken
http://www.healthberth.com/2009/11/mcdonalds-burger-king-and-other-fast.html

McDonalds Is an evil thing designed to make us fat
http://cozay.com/forum/f15/mcdonalds-is-an-evil-thing-designed-to-make-t1293/

McDonald’s fast food: toxic ingredients include putty and cosmetic petrochemicals
http://www.examiner.com/wellness-in-atlanta/mcdonalds-fast-food-toxic-ingredients-unfit-for-animals

Why is there tertiary butylhydroquinone in McDonald’s Chicken McNuggets?
http://blog.friendseat.com/tertiary-butylhydroquinone-in-chicken-mcnuggets

[ctb619]

Who the hell can make it on less than $100 a week Some can quite easily, but where are you getting this $100 figure? No full-time hourly employee in the United States earns less than $100/week.


Their food sucks and they treat their employees like crap Millions of consumers disagree with you. For the price and convenience, the food and service are obviously of sufficient quality. As to work place environment, I haven't heard complaints from former McDonald's employees much unlike those from other fast food restaurant employees. In fact, they typically look far happier than employees in other fast food establishments I've visited.


While they may be a model of capitalism...they are making people fat and increasing their risk of heart failure. As others have already mentioned, McDonald's does not make people fat. Consumers are free to eat at McDonald's as frequently as they choose, and there are many menu choices available.


We have one Mcd's in town here and the employees can barely speak English. I will not eat that crap. If it really becomes a problem for McDonald's and they start to lose customers because of it, I'm sure they'll insist on better English skills for future hires.


Watch Sicko, it's an awesome documentary. If by "awesome" you mean inaccurate and intentionally deceptive, then I agree.


This country will never make it as a service economy and hiring at McDonalds does not count as lower unemployment. We should certainly distinguish between quality and quantity when evaluating employment data, but I think it's unfair to dismiss the contributions of McDonald's.

[Vessol]

What is a "real" job?

[Travlyr]

What is a "real" job?

Opportunity. For example, raising industrial hemp and selling your harvest. Or, taking some carbon fibre and making body panels for cars. Or, using wine grapes and making fine wine. Etc. Taking advantage of opportunity is superior to working a job for someone else.

[Cutlerzzz]

McDonald's gets a waiver from Obamacare compliance that the fellow running the local grill in my town (which serves much better food and pays it's employee's better) cannot get.

WalMarx of fast food.


McDonald's, 29 other firms get health care coverage waivers

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2010-10-07-healthlaw07_ST_N.htm

While no one should be given an advantage by the government, just remember, McDonalds is not the bad guy. They were not the ones who passed Obamacare and anyone saddled by it is the victim. McDonalds should not be blamed for wanting out.

To showpan, Nobody has claimed that McDonalds is healthy(though there are reasonably healthy things on the menu). McDonalds just can't make anyone fat on their own. If someone eats McDonalds frequently and does not exercise, that is unhealthy. If you eat McDonalds every once in a while and work out, it is no big deal. The "addiction" to fastfood is an excuse. Some will argue that it is addictive because to them because greasy, fattening food often tastes good to them. People quit fast food, tobacco, alcohol, marijuana, and other "addictive" products all of the time. The user has no one to blame but themselves for the addiction. I'd be willing to bet that a good number of the writers from those articles want the government to step in and ban(or further regulate) some of the ingredients that McDonalds puts in their food.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Meh, not necessarily an article that will endear people towards capitalism.

What I am more interested in is a renaissance I am seeing in small burger joints as an alternative to fast food joints like McDonolds. As more and more people get turned off by McDonolds there is more of a demand for good ol' home style burgers, I see them popping up all over.

Like this place that just opened around my house. Uncle E's Wings and Things.
http://www.uncleeswings.com/uploads/6/7/8/8/6788469/_389261_orig.jpg
Yummy

Service is great, price is nice, and the food is much better. Places like this succeed because of McDonalds suckiness.

I do give McDonolds credit for adapting though. They are selling smoothies now, and their Frappaccino's are pretty damn good. I just cant stand their burgers though.

[Cutlerzzz]

What is a "real" job?

I think that any Austrian economist would declare that to be a subjective question. Apparently, McDonalds employees consider McDonalds a job, seeing as they are willing to work there. It would make sense that alot of high school or college students looking to get a part time job and work experience would be willing to sell their labor to McDonalds.

[Inkblots]

Some can quite easily, but where are you getting this $100 figure? No full-time hourly employee in the United States earns less than $100/week.

Millions of consumers disagree with you. For the price and convenience, the food and service are obviously of sufficient quality. As to work place environment, I haven't heard complaints from former McDonald's employees much unlike those from other fast food restaurant employees. In fact, they typically look far happier than employees in other fast food establishments I've visited.

As others have already mentioned, McDonald's does not make people fat. Consumers are free to eat at McDonald's as frequently as they choose, and there are many menu choices available.

If it really becomes a problem for McDonald's and they start to lose customers because of it, I'm sure they'll insist on better English skills for future hires.

If by "awesome" you mean inaccurate and intentionally deceptive, then I agree.

We should certainly distinguish between quality and quantity when evaluating employment data, but I think it's unfair to dismiss the contributions of McDonald's.

Great response, +rep for you.

[Anti Federalist]

While no one should be given an advantage by the government, just remember, McDonalds is not the bad guy. They were not the ones who passed Obamacare and anyone saddled by it is the victim. McDonalds should not be blamed for wanting out.

While not part of Business Roundtable, I have no doubt that this strategy is what McDonalds is using:


Big-Business Lobby Group Supports So-Called Stimulus and Obamacare and then Has Gall to Complain about Big Government

June 24, 2010 by Dan Mitchell

http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2010/06/24/big-business-lobby-group-supports-so-called-stimulus-and-obamacare-and-then-has-gall-to-complain-about-big-government/

Regular readers of this blog know that big corporations often are enemies of free markets and individual liberty. So it is hardly suprising to know that the Business Roundtable, a lobby representing CEOs of major companies, supported the wasteful and ineffective stimulus pprogram in 2009 and the bloated new healthcare entitlement in 2010. Big companies, after all, are quite proficient at working the system to obtain unearned wealth and to rig the rules against smaller competitors.

What is surprising, however, is that representatives of that organization now have the chutzpah to complain about a “hostile environment for investment and job creation.” Equally galling, the group has published a document called “Policy Burdens Inhibiting Economic Growth.” We’ve all heard the joke about the guy who murders his parents and then asks the court for mercy because he’s an orphan. The Business Roundtable has adopted that strategy, except this time taxpayers are the butt of the joke. Here’s an excerpt from the Washington Post report:


The chairman of the Business Roundtable, an association of top corporate executives that has been President Obama’s closest ally in the business community, accused the president and Democratic lawmakers Tuesday of creating an “increasingly hostile environment for investment and job creation.” Ivan G. Seidenberg, chief executive of Verizon Communications, said that Democrats in Washington are pursuing tax increases, policy changes and regulatory actions that together threaten to dampen economic growth and “harm our ability . . . to grow private-sector jobs in the U.S.” …The final straw, said Roundtable president John Castellani, was the introduction of two pieces of legislation, now pending in Congress, that the group views as particularly bad for business. One, a provision of the administration’s financial regulation overhaul, would make it easier for shareholders to nominate corporate board members. The other would raise taxes on multinational corporations. The rhetoric accompanying the tax proposals has been particularly harsh, Castellani said, with Democrats vowing to campaign in this fall’s midterm elections on a platform of punishing companies that move jobs overseas. …Seidenberg polled the members of the Business Roundtable and a sister organization, the Business Council. The result was a 54-page document, delivered to Orszag on Monday, chock full of bullet points about actions taken or considered by a wide array of executive agencies, including the White House Middle Class Task Force and the Food and Drug Administration. We believe the cumulative effect of these proposals will help defeat the objectives we all share — reducing unemployment, improving the competitiveness of U.S. companies and creating an environment that fosters long-term economic growth,” Seidenberg wrote in a cover letter for the document, titled “Policy Burdens Inhibiting Economic Growth.”

[Anti Federalist]

That's going in my burger thread.

Awesome burger!


Meh, not necessarily an article that will endear people towards capitalism.

What I am more interested in is a renaissance I am seeing in small burger joints as an alternative to fast food joints like McDonolds. As more and more people get turned off by McDonolds there is more of a demand for good ol' home style burgers, I see them popping up all over.

Like this place that just opened around my house. Uncle E's Wings and Things.
http://www.uncleeswings.com/uploads/6/7/8/8/6788469/_389261_orig.jpg
Yummy

Service is great, price is nice, and the food is much better. Places like this succeed because of McDonalds suckiness.

I do give McDonolds credit for adapting though. They are selling smoothies now, and their Frappaccino's are pretty damn good. I just cant stand their burgers though.

[Vessol]

I think that any Austrian economist would declare that to be a subjective question. Apparently, McDonalds employees consider McDonalds a job, seeing as they are willing to work there. It would make sense that alot of high school or college students looking to get a part time job and work experience would be willing to sell their labor to McDonalds.

I know. I just find it disturbing to find posters on the RPF's complaining about low paying jobs and "living wages"

[Vessol]

While not part of Business Roundtable, I have no doubt that this strategy is what McDonalds is using:


Big-Business Lobby Group Supports So-Called Stimulus and Obamacare and then Has Gall to Complain about Big Government

June 24, 2010 by Dan Mitchell

http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2010/06/24/big-business-lobby-group-supports-so-called-stimulus-and-obamacare-and-then-has-gall-to-complain-about-big-government/

Regular readers of this blog know that big corporations often are enemies of free markets and individual liberty. So it is hardly suprising to know that the Business Roundtable, a lobby representing CEOs of major companies, supported the wasteful and ineffective stimulus pprogram in 2009 and the bloated new healthcare entitlement in 2010. Big companies, after all, are quite proficient at working the system to obtain unearned wealth and to rig the rules against smaller competitors.

What is surprising, however, is that representatives of that organization now have the chutzpah to complain about a “hostile environment for investment and job creation.” Equally galling, the group has published a document called “Policy Burdens Inhibiting Economic Growth.” We’ve all heard the joke about the guy who murders his parents and then asks the court for mercy because he’s an orphan. The Business Roundtable has adopted that strategy, except this time taxpayers are the butt of the joke. Here’s an excerpt from the Washington Post report:

Great points. Big business is always going to be the biggest Statists.

[Inkblots]

I know. I just find it disturbing to find posters on the RPF's complaining about low paying jobs and "living wages"

Big tent, fellas, big tent. As a first cut, I think at least we can all agree that whether or not governments should distort the market with minimum wage laws and other regulations - which they shouldn't ;) - these things should be handled at the state and local level, as close as possible to the people they effect. Ron Paul's message of federalism and subsidiarity brings folks together!

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

That's going in my burger thread.

Awesome burger!


Haha, it's a great place. Family owned.

Check this bad boy out.


http://www.uncleeswings.com/uploads/6/7/8/8/6788469/8176633_orig.jpg


That's their "OMG" burger. If you can eat it you win a prize.

Check out the vid.

http://www.uncleeswings.com/the-omg-challenge.html

[Anti Federalist]

Great points. Big business is always going to be the biggest Statists.

Exactly.

Make no mistake, McD's can pay what they want, or serve what they want.

I just hate the fact that a competitor that can provide a better product and pay a better wage gets the shaft because they cannot pay the multi million dollar lawyer and lobbying fees to finagle and manipulate government in it's favor.

[Anti Federalist]

Holy Shit!

http://www.zrxoa.org/photopost/data/500/drooling-homer-simpson.jpg

http://www.iknow2.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/chest_pain.jpg


Haha, it's a great place. Family owned.

Check this bad boy out.


http://www.uncleeswings.com/uploads/6/7/8/8/6788469/8176633_orig.jpg


That's their "OMG" burger. If you can eat it you win a prize.

Check out the vid.

http://www.uncleeswings.com/the-omg-challenge.html

[american.swan]

Watch Sicko, it's an awesome documentary.


Go watch Stossel destroy this documentary on Youtube!!

[Andrew-Austin]

I look forward to the day when consumer preferences change for the better and make joints like McDonalds go belly up.

Instead of posting "people of wal-mart" pictures (as I've see on many occasion) , you lot should rename them to "people of McDonalds" pictures, because they got that way by eating shit like McDonalds.

Jeffrey Tucker is an amusing guy, but sometimes he tries too hard to be Walter Blockian in nature, he actually has encouraged his daughter to take up smoking because "it looks cool".

[amonasro]

Well their food is basically garbage, but buyer beware I guess.

[freshjiva]

I follow a vegan diet, so I obviously am no fan of McDonalds.
But I don't see McDonalds as an evil entity that must be destroyed. They can't touch me because I've boycotted their products for years. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for our Government if I were to boycott taxation or using gold/silver as legal tender.

Corporations are only as powerful as individuals allow them to become. Governments are powerful by downright violent coercion.

[Lothario]

http://www.uncleeswings.com/uploads/6/7/8/8/6788469/_389261_orig.jpg

I need this in my face for sure.

[showpan]

First, I do not believe in the whole open border idea....IMHO it is no different than globalization and nothing more than an unfair manipulation of markets to keep wages low and share prices high. I also do not believe that someone who does absolutely nothing has a right to earn more money from their stock than the person actually doing the work. this country was not founded with that in mind.
Second, McDonalds and Walmart are not full time jobs, unless you are a manager. While my exaggeration of making $100 was quite low...$200 gross per week is not. The point remains the same...globalization has unfairly reduced the natural cycle of wage increase.
While I will agree that it is a good opportunity for some high school kid, there are a lot of people who are educated with much experiance who have no recourse but to work there because globalization has created an economy with a lack of "real jobs"... ones that actually pay a living wage and are able to support a family...you know...like it used to be not too long ago. Again, there are whole families living on the streets, in their car or in one hotel room. I really don't think that most of America really understands how dire the situation is for the other 1/4 of this country, they remain clueless while issues like abortion and "entitlement" programs keep them clueless.
I am not going to pretend that McDonalds hiring just before an election cycle in order to bring the numbers down is a good thing.
I'm also not going to pretend that certain manufacturing jobs should not be classified as such.
As far as the health issues, I'm also not a fan of total deregulation. Given the opportunity, corporations like McDonalds would have no problem using chemicals and procedures that are harmful to humans that either make them severely ill and/or kill as long as it increases their profits. History proves this as a matter of fact time and time again and the only thing that keeps them from doing it more often are regulations and large lawsuit settlements. In other countries where regulations are non existent, they do use them. Read some of those links i posted on the first page.
How many of you know that the beef they are using is being fed with chicken poop because it is too costly to get rid of?
Cows were not meant to be fed with poop and sooner or later, some 12 year old little girl will end up dead because of it.

Food contamination by E. coli bacteria kills three children in Western Washington in January and February 1993.
In January and February 1993, food contamination by E. coli bacteria kills three children in Western Washington. More than 450 persons fall ill after consuming undercooked hamburger or being exposed to infected persons. The source of the contamination will be traced to Jack in the Box Restaurants and to its meat supplier, Von's in California.

As far as me being a member of Ron Paul forums and not believing that corporation have the right to do anything they please simply because they can lobby and contribute to politicians who favor them, well that sounds like a conservative value to me and our founding fathers would most certainly agree. I would hope Ron Paul would agree also, given his stance on the many other issues we agree on. Would he turn his back on the people, favoring the corporations in doing whatever they please? Somehow, I doubt it.

[jtstellar]

First, I do not believe in the whole open border idea....IMHO it is no different than globalization and nothing more than an unfair manipulation of markets to keep wages low and share prices high. I also do not believe that someone who does absolutely nothing has a right to earn more money from their stock than the person actually doing the work. this country was not founded with that in mind.
Second, McDonalds and Walmart are not full time jobs, unless you are a manager. While my exaggeration of making $100 was quite low...$200 gross per week is not. The point remains the same...globalization has unfairly reduced the natural cycle of wage increase.
While I will agree that it is a good opportunity for some high school kid, there are a lot of people who are educated with much experiance who have no recourse but to work there because globalization has created an economy with a lack of "real jobs"... ones that actually pay a living wage and are able to support a family...you know...like it used to be not too long ago. Again, there are whole families living on the streets, in their car or in one hotel room. I really don't think that most of America really understands how dire the situation is for the other 1/4 of this country, they remain clueless while issues like abortion and "entitlement" programs keep them clueless.
I am not going to pretend that McDonalds hiring just before an election cycle in order to bring the numbers down is a good thing.
I'm also not going to pretend that certain manufacturing jobs should not be classified as such.
As far as the health issues, I'm also not a fan of total deregulation. Given the opportunity, corporations like McDonalds would have no problem using chemicals and procedures that are harmful to humans that either make them severely ill and/or kill as long as it increases their profits. History proves this as a matter of fact time and time again and the only thing that keeps them from doing it more often are regulations and large lawsuit settlements. In other countries where regulations are non existent, they do use them. Read some of those links i posted on the first page.
How many of you know that the beef they are using is being fed with chicken poop because it is too costly to get rid of?
Cows were not meant to be fed with poop and sooner or later, some 12 year old little girl will end up dead because of it.

Food contamination by E. coli bacteria kills three children in Western Washington in January and February 1993.
In January and February 1993, food contamination by E. coli bacteria kills three children in Western Washington. More than 450 persons fall ill after consuming undercooked hamburger or being exposed to infected persons. The source of the contamination will be traced to Jack in the Box Restaurants and to its meat supplier, Von's in California.

As far as me being a member of Ron Paul forums and not believing that corporation have the right to do anything they please simply because they can lobby and contribute to politicians who favor them, well that sounds like a conservative value to me and our founding fathers would most certainly agree. I would hope Ron Paul would agree also, given his stance on the many other issues we agree on. Would he turn his back on the people, favoring the corporations in doing whatever they please? Somehow, I doubt it.

not to drive away any new blood and you certainly seem new.. but can you spend more time watching libertarians destroy liberals who tout many of your talking points in video clips right there at youtube before you make comments? you will seldom find enthusiasm if you expect thoughtful and lengthy responses to those talking points complaining about wages among others things, simply because we here have all watched those arguments destroyed thoroughly to dust many many times in video-taped debates.. not one liberal talking point thus far has been able to stand against an informed libertarian in any form of televised/internet debate.. so we're all growing weary of it (yes i am using collectivism with a degree of confidence). so, do your own homework please. btw, you can watch sicko destroyed by john stossel on youtube. that issue was settled for me two years ago.. not gonna waste time commenting.

[Philhelm]

I follow a vegan diet, so I obviously am no fan of McDonalds.
But I don't see McDonalds as an evil entity that must be destroyed. They can't touch me because I've boycotted their products for years. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for our Government if I were to boycott taxation or using gold/silver as legal tender.

Corporations are only as powerful as individuals allow them to become. Governments are powerful by downright violent coercion.

Well said, except for the vegan part. I'm a carnivore. ;)

[cindy25]

there is no reason why the service industry can't be unionized just as the manufacturing industry was; the big unions should forget about public employees, and concentrate on McD and Walmart.

[Cutlerzzz]

I also do not believe that someone who does absolutely nothing has a right to earn more money from their stock than the person actually doing the work. this country was not founded with that in mind.

There was no tax on income, dividends, or capital gains until at least 1913...

[PaulConventionWV]

Some can quite easily, but where are you getting this $100 figure? No full-time hourly employee in the United States earns less than $100/week.

Millions of consumers disagree with you. For the price and convenience, the food and service are obviously of sufficient quality. As to work place environment, I haven't heard complaints from former McDonald's employees much unlike those from other fast food restaurant employees. In fact, they typically look far happier than employees in other fast food establishments I've visited.

As others have already mentioned, McDonald's does not make people fat. Consumers are free to eat at McDonald's as frequently as they choose, and there are many menu choices available.

If it really becomes a problem for McDonald's and they start to lose customers because of it, I'm sure they'll insist on better English skills for future hires.

If by "awesome" you mean inaccurate and intentionally deceptive, then I agree.

We should certainly distinguish between quality and quantity when evaluating employment data, but I think it's unfair to dismiss the contributions of McDonald's.

You seem very defensive, but I'm just wondering... what are you defending? It seems like you have a very rigid view of capitalism and success of a company that has an obviously unhealthy product. What exactly are you trying to defend?

[ctb619]

You seem very defensive, but I'm just wondering... what are you defending? It seems like you have a very rigid view of capitalism and success of a company that has an obviously unhealthy product. What exactly are you trying to defend?

I'm not sure what kind of explanation you're looking for. My comments were in response to another post, and in that context, they're hopefully self-explanatory. I didn't mean to come across as defensive, I was just trying to address what I thought to be poor reasoning. I don't personally patronize McDonald's, but like others I do feel it's a company that at times has been unfairly stigmatized and targeted.

[NYgs23]

McDonald's food really isn't all that unhealthy, and certainly not more so than that of sit-down restaurants and of the little "mom-and-pop" joints some folks on this thread are touting. Their food is greasy and fatty too, you know.

And I don't think the "lipid hypothesis" holds much water. If anything at fast food restaurants is the problem, it's all the soda, and people can get that anywhere too.

Besides, if people want to engage in habits you consider unhealthy, that's their business. I'm tired of smug and self-righteous people handing out unsolicited opinions about what everyone else should do to stay healthy. Perhaps we prefer the taste of the damn food over whatever health benefits you personally feel will accrue to us from not eating it.

So, therefore, why is everybody focusing on fast food and especially McDonald's? Because they're big? There's nothing wrong with being a large company per se; that is a very anti-market mentality.

It's only a problem if they benefit from special favors and, as Tucker points out, it's usually impossible to discern who is a net-taxpayer and who is a net-tax-consumer because the factors are too numerous, complex, and subjective. In some ways, McDonald's is helped by the government, but it's hurt by it in other ways, as are all its competitors, and you can't comfortably weigh them to come to a conclusion about exactly what the market would look like if it weren't for government intervention.

I find that libertarians who do that usually conclude that a free market would end up looking like whatever they'd like, with everything they like being popular and everything they don't like falling by the wayside. But you have no way of knowing that.

[cindy25]

in a way they are receiving less than $100 per week, if health care is deducted. and while mandated health care is wrong, it is also wrong for the service industry to pay so low, and then expect everyone else to subsidize their employees food (food stamps) , health care (medicaid) . the solution is not minimum wages, but ending the govt handouts, combined with unionization.

[showpan]

not to drive away any new blood and you certainly seem new.. but can you spend more time watching libertarians destroy liberals who tout many of your talking points in video clips right there at youtube before you make comments?

For one, this is the "Ron Paul" forum...not the Libertarian forum and you cannot claim proprietary rights over Libertarian philosophies that are as diverse as any other parties philosophies. There are different views within the same party and using Nazi tactics of denouncing the opposition as "Liberal" is a tactic that neocon globalists use. second, I am 48 and never make an argument for or against something without thorough research before hand. If I make a comment, based on the facts I have found, then disprove them based on facts you have found and maybe I'll consider your view rather than just saying you have already debunked mine...lol



you will seldom find enthusiasm if you expect thoughtful and lengthy responses to those talking points complaining about wages among others things, simply because we here have all watched those arguments destroyed thoroughly to dust many many times in video-taped debates.. not one liberal talking point thus far has been able to stand against an informed libertarian in any form of televised/internet debate..

Gloabalist neocons have interfered in the natural cycle of wages with legislation such as NAFTA and the promise of amnesty allowing hordes of people into this country who will accept lower wages and less conditions. Go ahead...try and disprove that. Wiki leaks documents and the plutonomy reports spell out precisely what their intentions are. Per Capita income, poverty levels, corporate profits and CEO/management pay will destroy any of your "liberal" talking points because globalization is in fact a "Liberal" ideal.


so we're all growing weary of it (yes i am using collectivism with a degree of confidence). so, do your own homework please. btw, you can watch sicko destroyed by john stossel on youtube. that issue was settled for me two years ago.. not gonna waste time commenting.

I have done my homework and will also use collectivism when I say that the working class of this country are more than weary of debate such as yours. Corporations unchecked will use any means possible to increase profits even if it is harmful to us. They will blatantly disregard our health for the sake of profits. History proves this and their are a lot of dead folks who can't hear your support of unregulated capitalism at any cost. China is now going through the very same things this country has had to endure and McDonalds is using chemicals that are banned here...just because they can in order to increase their profits. Chemicals that are proven to cause health risks. Maybe if it was you son or daughter that gets sick, you might understand.

While I am not anti corporation which you seem to imply, I am simply pointing out that McDonalds is NOT the role model Tucker wishes to portray. They are another international corporation in bed with our government and would love nothing more than to have a complete monopoly over our restaurant choices. They use their workers part time to circumvent paying taxes that other businesses have to pay. I find it completely disgusting that Americans so desperate for a job have to fight for crumbs from McDonalds. Personally, I will not eat their food, I will continue to support my local small restaurants who better impact our local economy rather than enable a large corporation to collect that money and disperse it somewhere else, much the same as our current form of government.


"young people should work for free wherever they can and whenever they can. The reason is to acquire a good reputation and earn a good recommendation." - Jeffrey A. Tucker

"isolation and self-sufficiency lead to poverty." - Jeffrey A. Tucker

"developers in India, who are now doing the Mises Institute's ebooks at a very low price and with great expertise' - Jeffrey A. Tucker


"Experience has taught me that manufactures are now as necessary to our independence as to our comfort; and if... [we will purchase] nothing foreign where an equivalent of domestic fabric can be obtained without regard to a difference of price, it will not be our fault if we do not soon have a supply at home equal to our demand, and wrest that weapon of distress from the hand which has wielded it." --Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Austin, 1816. ME 14:392

"The prohibiting duties we lay on all articles of foreign manufacture which prudence requires us to establish at home, with the patriotic determination of every good citizen to use no foreign article which can be made within ourselves without regard to difference of price, secures us against a relapse into foreign dependency." --Thomas Jefferson to Jean Baptiste Say, 1815.

"I have come to a resolution myself as I hope every good citizen will, never again to purchase any article of foreign manufacture which can be had of American make, be the difference of price what it may." --Thomas Jefferson to B. S. Barton, 1815. ME 19:223

[dannno]

I've been meaning to try their (real fruit supposedly) mango yogurt smoothie.

But ya, definitely wouldn't want to get hooked on yogurt that likely contains abundant amounts of pesticides, growth hormones, anti-biotics, blood and puss. Then again, my local smoothie shop might use yogurt that contains some amount of that as well.

[NYgs23]

Corporations unchecked will use any means possible to increase profits even if it is harmful to us. They will blatantly disregard our health for the sake of profits. History proves this and their are a lot of dead folks who can't hear your support of unregulated capitalism at any cost. China is now going through the very same things this country has had to endure and McDonalds is using chemicals that are banned here...just because they can in order to increase their profits. Chemicals that are proven to cause health risks. Maybe if it was you son or daughter that gets sick, you might understand.

Are small producers not operating "for the sake of profits"? Would they never use these chemicals you're talking about?


While I am not anti corporation which you seem to imply, I am simply pointing out that McDonalds is NOT the role model Tucker wishes to portray. They are another international corporation in bed with our government and would love nothing more than to have a complete monopoly over our restaurant choices. They use their workers part time to circumvent paying taxes that other businesses have to pay. I find it completely disgusting that Americans so desperate for a job have to fight for crumbs from McDonalds. Personally, I will not eat their food, I will continue to support my local small restaurants who better impact our local economy rather than enable a large corporation to collect that money and disperse it somewhere else, much the same as our current form of government.

Well, you sure sound biased against large firms to me. You seem to think if a firm is large and operates on a wide scale it must be run by unscrupulous cigar-chewing cartoon villains, whereas small and local businesses are run by saints and angels who would never dream of utilizing production methods you disapprove of to make money. I guess the food at your local greasy spoon is totally healthy?

There is nothing wrong with a firm being large and widespread per se, and you don't know how large McDonald's or any other firm would be in a pure free market. It might be smaller, but it might be even larger. And there would be nothing wrong with that, if it was what consumers wanted.

And a free society would be a global one in which people can interact freely with each other regardless of geographic area or any other arbitrary distinction. It's not free if people are forcibly hindered from trading or traveling based on which state happens to control the area in which they happen to reside.

[NYgs23]

in a way they are receiving less than $100 per week, if health care is deducted. and while mandated health care is wrong, it is also wrong for the service industry to pay so low, and then expect everyone else to subsidize their employees food (food stamps) , health care (medicaid) . the solution is not minimum wages, but ending the govt handouts, combined with unionization.

Unions are also coercive, using coercive state laws to help them cartelize the labor market. They operate just as business cartels do and are also economically destructive. They artificially inflate the price of labor, hurting consumers and increasing unemployment.

[squarepusher]

One of these hamburgers is 12 years old, the other is 'fresh.' Can you tell which is which?

http://aht.seriouseats.com/images/20080925-mcdonaldsburger.jpg

[heavenlyboy34]

One of these hamburgers is 12 years old, the other is 'fresh.' Can you tell which is which?

http://aht.seriouseats.com/images/20080925-mcdonaldsburger.jpg
I guess that the left one is "fresh".

[Cutlerzzz]

Isn't Tucker enough for you people? Even with his bowtie, strange accent, and persausive speaking? What's next, rejecting the word of Peter Schiff and one of his random comparisons? Ignoring the legendary Thomas Woods and his jokes?

[AFPVet]

The McDonalds and other companies like Walmart get the waivers and experience the most growth. Government and business dealings have gone on for far too long. We need to return to Laissez Faire.

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm not sure what kind of explanation you're looking for. My comments were in response to another post, and in that context, they're hopefully self-explanatory. I didn't mean to come across as defensive, I was just trying to address what I thought to be poor reasoning. I don't personally patronize McDonald's, but like others I do feel it's a company that at times has been unfairly stigmatized and targeted.

Oh, make no mistake about it. McDonald's is just another one of those corporate machines that gets corporate welfare from the government in order to perpetuate their unhealthy food's availability. Remember, this is not a real result of the free market. A company like this should come under scrutiny for where they are because, not only are they a spawn of the government regulatory system, they know their food is terrible, but they're in it for the money, man. I tell you, I don't care who you are, I would never have anything good to say about a company like that because the product is just godawful. I wouldn't be caught dead in a place like McDonald's. Hell, I don't even eat at fast food restaurants anymore.

[NYgs23]

Oh, make no mistake about it. McDonald's is just another one of those corporate machines that gets corporate welfare from the government in order to perpetuate their unhealthy food's availability. Remember, this is not a real result of the free market. A company like this should come under scrutiny for where they are because, not only are they a spawn of the government regulatory system

Can you prove that if all impediments to a voluntary market were abolished overnight, McDonald's market share wouldn't grow in the end? Nope. It's just your speculation, probably based more on what you'd personally prefer than anything.


they know their food is terrible, but they're in it for the money, man. I tell you, I don't care who you are, I would never have anything good to say about a company like that because the product is just godawful. I wouldn't be caught dead in a place like McDonald's. Hell, I don't even eat at fast food restaurants anymore.

So you only eat 100% healthy food produced by selfless angels who don't care about making money, right?

I suspect the comments of a lot of people on this thread are focused more on boasting about the moral superiority of their personal eating habits than on opposition to the government's economic controls.

[showpan]

I suspect the comments of a lot of people on this thread are focused more on boasting about the moral superiority of their personal eating habits than on opposition to the government's economic controls.


Then you haven't been reading.
I suspect the comments in this article and of a lot of people in this thread are more concerned about their investments than they are about the people of this country.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Damn. Mickey D's gettin a lot of hate in here?

I dont like McDonalds, but the fact is, they have a business model that works. They don't sell a lot of food because their food is great, I think most people can agree on that. But they sell a lot because you can get it quickly, it's consistent, and its not terrible. Plus the fact they own some of the best real estate locations in country helps. They are in convenient areas. On top of that, Approximately 15% of McDonald's restaurants are owned and operated by McDonald's Corporation directly. The remainder are operated by others through a variety of franchise agreements and joint ventures. Most McDonald restaurants ARE small businesses. One of my old neighbors owned 2 of them, and he was your regular middle class guy.

Until people really figure out that their food sucks, expect them to keep doing well. They aren't a monopoly, but they figure out how to adapt well. When people started complaining about how they don't offer health options, they changed their menu, added smoothies, salads, fruits, oatmeal, etc. When iced coffee became more popular, they started offering Frape's and other kinds of cold coffees. Good for them.

[lester1/2jr]

I think the problem people have with McDonalds and Wal Mart isn't the stuff they say that the food is fattening or they don't pay enough, burritos are fattening and Target doesn't pay much either. grilling, which is alot of burgers , is immensely popular

I think American people want Americans to have it better than they do. It pisses people off that so many people don't have the money to eat healthier more interesting food or shop at more interesting places than Wal Mart.

It's not McDonald's fault but we are the greatest country in the world and MCdonalds isn't the greatest food in the world. So people have a visceral reaction to it.

You don't look at a MCdonalds and think "that's beautiful" (unless you're this guy and/or stoned)

[affa]

bleep everything about mcdonalds.

[showpan]

A few more facts:
$203 million
This is how much money it has cost US tax payers to bail out McDonalds according to the FED's recently released data.
Look it up here: http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/reform_transaction.htm
So far I am only able to find about $40 million in subsidies that was given to them to open up in other countries. This being separate from Bernanke's bailout money.
They sure got a lot in return for their $100,000+ contribution to Obama's campaign.
They have also spent over $5 million in lobbying for FDA, Obamcare, Amnesty, etc.

It's not that I hate large corporations, I hate what they have become. They are destroying this country. And while they are a franchise, technically a small business, much of the money is siphoned away, unlike an actual mom and pop.

I agree that people eat there under their own free will, but no one can deny the effects of subliminal advertising on a 5 year old as even from their reduced visibility in the back seat, they can see those golden arches ...lol

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

A few more facts:
$203 million
This is how much money it has cost US tax payers to bail out McDonalds according to the FED's recently released data.
Look it up here: http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/reform_transaction.htm
So far I am only able to find about $40 million in subsidies that was given to them to open up in other countries. This being separate from Bernanke's bailout money.
They sure got a lot in return for their $100,000+ contribution to Obama's campaign.
They have also spent over $5 million in lobbying for FDA, Obamcare, Amnesty, etc.

It's not that I hate large corporations, I hate what they have become. They are destroying this country. And while they are a franchise, technically a small business, much of the money is siphoned away, unlike an actual mom and pop.

I agree that people eat there under their own free will, but no one can deny the effects of subliminal advertising on a 5 year old as even from their reduced visibility in the back seat, they can see those golden arches ...lol

Props for this.

[Cutlerzzz]

McDonalds pays 2 billion in federal taxes according to Tucker. 203 million is nothing.

[PaulConventionWV]

Can you prove that if all impediments to a voluntary market were abolished overnight, McDonald's market share wouldn't grow in the end? Nope. It's just your speculation, probably based more on what you'd personally prefer than anything.



So you only eat 100% healthy food produced by selfless angels who don't care about making money, right?

I suspect the comments of a lot of people on this thread are focused more on boasting about the moral superiority of their personal eating habits than on opposition to the government's economic controls.

I freely confess that I don't know what would happen to McDonald's if the economy were deregulated and corporations weren't put on government welfare. However, I would still rail against it. And yes, I do all that mumbo jumbo of which you speak, which is totally my business...

I can't prove that McDonald's wouldn't exist, but I still wouldn't eat there, and I would encourage others to do the same. And you're right, it is based on what I prefer. In a free market, what I prefer matters. The thing is, you can't prove your point either. We both know that it would be a completely different world if everything responded to the free market, and I'm not trying to say it would all be good, but you know, such is life, and I'm willing to bet there would be a lot more free minds and healthier people if these things were deregulated. The sheeple can eat there and get cancer all they want, though. At least the free thinkers would outlast them.... that's natural selection for ya. ;)

[heavenlyboy34]

I think the problem people have with McDonalds and Wal Mart isn't the stuff they say that the food is fattening or they don't pay enough, burritos are fattening and Target doesn't pay much either. grilling, which is alot of burgers , is immensely popular

I think American people want Americans to have it better than they do. It pisses people off that so many people don't have the money to eat healthier more interesting food or shop at more interesting places than Wal Mart.

It's not McDonald's fault but we are the greatest country in the world and MCdonalds isn't the greatest food in the world. So people have a visceral reaction to it.

You don't look at a MCdonalds and think "that's beautiful" (unless you're this guy and/or stoned)
Except that's not true. The director/star of "Fathead" proved this. I don't care for McDonald's myself, but railing against it for causing various health problems is simply not reasonable.

[showpan]

McDonalds pays 2 billion in federal taxes according to Tucker. 203 million is nothing.

Earnings in Billions/fed taxes paid in millions
2010 - $24.074 / $1,127
2009 - $22,745 / $792
2008 - $23,522 / $808

http://www.aboutmcdonalds.com/mcd/investors/publications/2010_Financial_Highlights.html

Why is a company who makes $24 BILLION getting any money at all from the FED and receiving subsidies to open up in other countries?

We could take this another step further and revue their suppliers who also happen to supply Walmart. No doubt they have also profited well and are getting kickbacks from buying across the border.

[affa]

Except that's not true. The director/star of "Fathead" proved this. I don't care for McDonald's myself, but railing against it for causing various health problems is simply not reasonable.

That film didn't 'prove' anything, no more than a Michael Moore film did. It's just pro-meat propaganda, the opposite of, say, Supersize Me. If anything, it's a more dangerous film, since it seeks to excuse and allow certain behaviors that are not exactly good for you, whereas at least Spurlock's Supersize Me is angled in the 'get healthy' direction.

We live in a day and age where pretty much anything can be 'proved' and 'disproved'. Heck, we live in a day were the president can call something 'not hostilities' that involves US Airmen dropping ordnance over a hundred times.

[GunnyFreedom]

McDonalds pays 2 billion in federal taxes according to Tucker. 203 million is nothing.

WHOA, I have quite intentionally been staying out of this thread, but did you just make an excuse for a government corporate bailout? Really?

It shouldnt matter if a corp (or even a person for that matter) paid $2Bn or $2Tn in taxes, bailouts of ANY kind are corporitism, and that's just wrong.

[Cutlerzzz]

WHOA, I have quite intentionally been staying out of this thread, but did you just make an excuse for a government corporate bailout? Really?

It shouldnt matter if a corp (or even a person for that matter) paid $2Bn or $2Tn in taxes, bailouts of ANY kind are corporitism, and that's just wrong.

McDonalds gave the fed 6 times more than the fed gave McDonalds that year, and they have paid tens of billions over the years.

Does that make buying 203 million dollars of bad debt ok? No. But the argument could easily be made that McDonalds was only in any trouble(and I don't think it was much trouble, given that they have 50 times that in revenue every year) because of taxes. Nobody knows where McDonalds would be in a free economy.

[NYgs23]

Then you haven't been reading.
I suspect the comments in this article and of a lot of people in this thread are more concerned about their investments than they are about the people of this country.

Ah, the old left-wing tactic of accusing your ideological opponents of just seeking financial gain. After all, why would anyone else ever disagree with the self-evident truth of your words?

But it's pretty clear you do have a personal bias against McDonald's, as do a lot of people. I don't see the point of it. Their food is not any less healthy than a lot of other places. And who cares if other people want to enjoy less healthy than you do sometimes, anyway? It just comes across as a snobby, elitist thing to me.

[NYgs23]

I'm willing to bet there would be a lot more free minds and healthier people if these things were deregulated. The sheeple can eat there and get cancer all they want, though. At least the free thinkers would outlast them.... that's natural selection for ya. ;)

Fast food is just fried food, which you can get at a lot of other places besides McDonald's and which has been popular long before fast food. You sound like a health nut when you call people "sheeple" and yourself a "free thinker" simply because they enjoy fried food and you don't.

[PineGroveDave]

Watch Sicko, it's an awesome documentary.
"Food, Inc." is an even better documentary film that immediately begins with the declaration that the fast food industry (beginning w/ McDs) changed how food is "manufactured" in the US.

Like many here, I used to believe that it was our own fault for our own obesity (I was there too), but after watching this documentary, there was some interesting info that came out of it. For example, how it is less expensive to eat unhealthy foods than wholesome, healthy foods...and this is true. My wife and I now only purchase a local farmers markets and eat meat that is grass fed and local. As a result, our food bill has gone way up. Why is that? Well, this documentary addresses that issue...the government is controlling not only the cost of the food, but subsidizes a lot of it. The subsidies go to the industries (thats what they are now) with the money and the clout...those industries also get the appointments into the FDA and other regulatory agencies by our elected officials.

Back to the unhealthy issue though...It seems to be more "economic" now as to who is "unhealthy". Much easier, and cheaper to go get something off McDs Dollar Menu than it is to go buy a bunch of broccoli ($1.29/bunch), a chicken breast (~$1.00/breast), and maybe some rice (~.50 cents) and then go to prepare it, cook it, clean up. With the government subsidizing the food industry, many food prices are artificially low. The reason HFCS (High Fructose Corn Syrup) is everywhere is because of its abundance, ease in processing, and it's cheap because it's subsidized.

Check out "Food, Inc"

[showpan]

Ah, the old left-wing tactic of accusing your ideological opponents of just seeking financial gain. After all, why would anyone else ever disagree with the self-evident truth of your words?


Tactics...lmao...so far in this thread, I have been called a liberal and someone left an unrec. and called me a troll because of my position against the corporate takover of America. I'm not going to tell others what to eat. At one time in my life when I was much younger, I would have spent my last 5 bucks on a quarter pounder meal, before they decided to make them taste like chemical burgers. Now that I am older, I try to think a little more about what I am doing to my body. I merely pointed out, based on facts, that large corporations will do whatever they can to make not just profits, but huge profits even at the expense of our health, the environment and especially the other businesses. It's called greed and if you think McDonalds believes in "free markets" and doesn't manipulate the government to "help" them, you are sadly mistaken. If anything, McDonalds is the paradigm of what is wrong with our country and I pointed out a few facts. What you do with that info is up to you. Education is the key.

[heavenlyboy34]

Tactics...lmao...so far in this thread, I have been called a liberal and someone left an unrec. and called me a troll because of my position against the corporate takover of America. I'm not going to tell others what to eat. At one time in my life when I was much younger, I would have spent my last 5 bucks on a quarter pounder meal, before they decided to make them taste like chemical burgers. Now that I am older, I try to think a little more about what I am doing to my body. I merely pointed out, based on facts, that large corporations will do whatever they can to make not just profits, but huge profits even at the expense of our health, the environment and especially the other businesses. It's called greed and if you think McDonalds believes in "free markets" and doesn't manipulate the government to "help" them, you are sadly mistaken. If anything, McDonalds is the paradigm of what is wrong with our country and I pointed out a few facts. What you do with that info is up to you. Education is the key.
Corporations are out to make money, but that in itself is not bad. All businesses do that. You claim that McDonald's gets "help" from the government. Please prove it. btw, you and PGD should check out the documentary "Fathead". ;):cool:

[GunnyFreedom]

Corporations are out to make money, but that in itself is not bad. All businesses do that. You claim that McDonald's gets "help" from the government. Please prove it. btw, you and PGD should check out the documentary "Fathead". ;):cool:

Well, that's easy. Unca Sam subsidizes corn growers and syrup manufacturers to make corn syrup dirt cheap. In volume, soda company gets corn syrup nearly free. Soda company sells to McDonalds barely over cost, and McDonalds makes obscene profit on soda, so they encourage you buy it a gallon at a time. People too dumb to know better drink it up and get diabetes.

There, a clear chain from government input to high profits and making people sick.

Other than the direct bailout money as described earlier, corps like McD's get all kinds of derivative benefits from gov't largesse that lead to 'huge profits from making peoplpe sick.'

Now, remove gov't subsidies from corn syrup and what happens?

Soda is made from sugar, which makes it both more expensive and less likely to be binged on. McD's makes less profit on soda, so portion sizes decrease, people drink less whether they are stupid or not, fewer people get diabetes.

The same pattern is repeated in most of the food they serve...subsidized GMO feedstock -> beef + filler...etc

It'd be a tough piece of research, but I'd be very surprised if less than 90% of their vendors didn't back up to heavy subsidies somewhere. It is because of their vast resources and certain lobbying relationship with gov't that they can line up such vendors in a way that mom & pop restaurants can't or won't.

You don't have to deposit a stimulus check from Unca Sam to benefit from subsidies and government largesse. As it happens, of course, McD's deposits thise checks also, apparently.

And no, I'm not anti business, or even anti McD's (I'm eating a 5 piece chicken selects as I type this) but to think that the current incarnation of McDonalds has anything whatever to do with the natural function of a free market is like living out in fantasyland somewhere.

[PineGroveDave]

btw, you and PGD should check out the documentary "Fathead". ;):cool: I've seen it. Food, Inc is a much better and thorough documentary. The two documentaries are entirely different though. Food, Inc. exposes the way food is processed nowadays and how the fast food industry was/is the catalyst. Food, Inc also addresses the incestuous relationship between Washington and the food conglomerates and how it's the consumer that is getting screwed by both. Fathead focuses on refuting the premise that a high fat diet leads to coronary issues. I don't entirely agree with the movie as my body is living proof of what a high fiber, high protein, low fat diet can do. At 51 years of age I'm in better health (and my blood panel bears that out) than most men 30 years my junior. The documentary does state that sugar is the culprit in many heart/coronary issues and I absolutely agree that sugar is poison...period.