Hucklebee pushing Amnesty for Illegals

[Lord Xar]

Mike Huckabee is on CNN right now pushing In-state tuition for illegal aliens and Dream Act amnesty provisions!

Wow.. can someone say "fllliiiipppp fllllooopppppeeer"

So, tax hike mike loves taxes and pandering... nice mike, way to gooo!!

[fluoridatedbrainsoup]

It's comforting to know this - while he parrots some of Ron Paul's positions, he is still, at heart, a Hillary Clinton :eek:. And here I was believing that the lion's sum of Hucklebee supporters were conservatives for border enforcement..

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I hate Hucklebee.

hmmm... his slogan for his campaign is "i like mike" ....maybe more like "i dislike mike" :p

[wgadget]

I'm sure a lot of those evangelicals will probably start hating Huckleberry, too.

He's REALLY soft on illegal immigration. Ron needs to talk more about this issue. It's a BIG ONE.

[Jimmy]

I been looking....need some hard evidence on Huck about his soft immagration stance. Anyone know the best place to look?? Many thanks

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I'm soft on immigration myself, I just happen to understand the economical impact that illegals cause, that is why I think we need to change our system before we think about getting softer on immigration policies.

[werdd]

Just build the damn fence, and dont even question it unless you live in Texas.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Just build the damn fence, and dont even question it unless you live in Texas.

well, then, why doesn't Texas build their own god damn fence then ;). We didn't need fences in the 19th century and I'm sticking to it.

[RickSp]

Push Paul's immigration position too loudly and you will drive away those of us who happen to believe America still is and should remain a nation of immigrants. Xeonophobia and nativism aren't strong selling points.

[steph3n]

America is a nation of immigrants, and we have laws that are to be enforced as well, solving the root problem will force those here to go home and get in line legally ;)

[JosephTheLibertarian]

America is a nation of immigrants, and we have laws that are to be enforced as well, solving the root problem will force those here to go home and get in line legally ;)

you solve the problem when you ELIMINATE the welfare state. How can we do this when each state is in control of their own policies? We eliminate it at the federal level, we stop mandating states to provide, then we let states create their own immigration policies, let them deal with it. Don't get me wrong, the federal government is in charge of SECURING the country, but hey, if a state wants to learn the hard way, they can try to cradle all the illegals they want with an entitlement system that rewards them. Eventually, they will learn, especially when we begin to create sound currency, sound money would limit size of government.

[steph3n]

Yes, this is exactly what I meant.


you solve the problem when you ELIMINATE the welfare state. How can we do this when each state is in control of their own policies? We eliminate it at the federal level, we stop mandating states to provide, then we let states create their own immigration policies, let them deal with it. Don't get me wrong, the federal government is in charge of SECURING the country, but hey, if a state wants to learn the hard way, they can try to cradle all the illegals they want with an entitlement system that rewards them. Eventually, they will learn, especially when we begin to create sound currency, sound money would limit size of government.

[werdd]

The fence with adequete personell, maybe 10 thousand troops from iraq, would completely end illegal immigration and the threat of terrorist crossing over the rio-grande. I don't think you know what the border is even like, if me and you went and rented a jeep, we could cross it NO problem just going offroad. No border patrol, nothing.

The best thing America can do as a whole is build the fence, and enforce it. You got guys like Rick Perry in texas thinking like you just loving the nafta and the thought of the pending NAU.

The Fence = NO NAU. The last thing Vicente Fox would want us to do is to stop letting his illegals infiltrate and undermine the US.

Theres even the thought that we could put up windfarms all along the fence, and electrify the whole thing, while still providing energy for surrounding towns.

I dont even understand how anyone can argue the fence.

[steph3n]

the thing is having a fence won't fix it, the welfare state is what draws them, they get low wages and live off welfare, you have to address the core issue as well, only Dr Paul is speaking of this matter.


The fence with adequete personell, maybe 10 thousand troops from iraq, would completely end illegal immigration and the threat of terrorist crossing over the rio-grande. I don't think you know what the border is even like, if me and you went and rented a jeep, we could cross it NO problem just going offroad. No border patrol, nothing.

The best thing America can do as a whole is build the fence, and enforce it. You got guys like Rick Perry in texas thinking like you just loving the nafta and the thought of the pending NAU.

The Fence = NO NAU. The last thing Vicente Fox would want us to do is to stop letting his illegals infiltrate and undermine the US.

Theres even the thought that we could put up windfarms all along the fence, and electrify the whole thing, while still providing energy for surrounding towns.

I dont even understand how anyone can argue the fence.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Yes, this is exactly what I meant.

Yeah, I think some of the problem of illegal immigration lays with our fiat monetary system. We can create a seemingly endless entitlement system, so why wouldn't they come here to bare the fruits of everyone else's labor?

[werdd]

the thing is having a fence won't fix it, the welfare state is what draws them, they get low wages and live off welfare, you have to address the core issue as well, only Dr Paul is speaking of this matter.

Exactly, that coinciding with a fence, and adequete personell enforcing it, ending birthright amnesty, and plenty of people along the coast, we could end illegal immigration, AND THEN we might find that 5 years later, we actually really need them when our economy is doing so great, so we can allow LEGAL applicant's into this country, to work at the same rate that everyone else works.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Well, we could always fire at will and consider them an "invasion force" lol that's the alternative solution ha I'm tellin' ya, you eliminate fiat currency and you'll see government shrink....

[werdd]

Well, we could always fire at will and consider them an "invasion force" lol that's the alternative solution ha I'm tellin' ya, you eliminate fiat currency and you'll see government shrink....

Even with that, the free market will still have a demand for Immigrants, its just a question of whether we will let the free market employ them legally, or illegally.

Open Borders = people go undocumented.

[werdd]

The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

[RickSp]

The welfare state argument is ridiculous. Immigrants do not come to this country to go on welfare. The overwhelming majority of immigrants come to this country to work. The current laws make most of them "illegals". The problem is the law not the immigrants.

The current system is broken. Most "illegal" immigrants pay Federal taxes but use local services creating a hardship on local municalities but a windfall for the Federal government. Again a problem with the law and not the immigrants.

Depending on whose studies (http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/taxes.asp) you believe illegal immigrants either cost the government $42 billion per year or yield a surplus of $29 billion per year. Taking either figure against total expenditures the impact is neglible.

[RickSp]

Even with that, the free market will still have a demand for Immigrants, its just a question of whether we will let the free market employ them legally, or illegally.



That's right - free markets create a demand for immigrants. As long as we have free markets people will sneak across the borders. We must crush free markets. Close the borders. Build the walls. Melt down the Statue of Liberty to make cartridge casings. Welcome to the police state.

[werdd]

That's right - free markets create a demand for immigrants. As long as we have free markets people will sneak across the borders. We must crush free markets. Close the borders. Build the walls. Melt down the Statue of Liberty to make cartridge casings. Welcome to the police state.

What a completely incoherent statement.

[Shogun108]

Mike Huckabee is on CNN right now pushing In-state tuition for illegal aliens and Dream Act amnesty provisions!

Wow.. can someone say "fllliiiipppp fllllooopppppeeer"

So, tax hike mike loves taxes and pandering... nice mike, way to gooo!!

Oooh wow nice way to take his possitions out of context. I'd kindly direct you to wikipedia to check his fiscal record for yourself...


BLITZER: First of all, is that true? Did you support special tuition breaks to children of illegal immigrants?

HUCKABEE: No, it wasn't special tuition breaks. What I supported was that people who had been in our schools, who had met all of the academic requirements for a very specific scholarship, would be able to get the same scholarship as anybody else, because they had been in our schools. And part of it, they had to apply for citizenship.

Now, what's better: having a person remain a minimum-wage worker and be under subsidy, or is it better that they become a citizen, they get a college education, they become a significant taxpayer? They've shown their academic credentials.

And you know what, Wolf? You don't punish the child for the crime of the parents.


BLITZER: Amnesty for the children of illegal immigrants would be OK for you?

HUCKABEE: It's not amnesty, because...

BLITZER: You said they could apply for citizenship.

HUCKABEE: Well, here's the thing. It's not an amnesty, because the child didn't commit a crime. The child didn't have -- when he's 5 years old and he comes here in the back of his parents' vehicle, did he commit the crime? That would be the point to be made.

Now of course you'll say he still supports amnesty...


BECK: Tell me what`s going on, on the border. Why are we not building this? What`s going on? What have we sold out? Why is Ramos and Compean still in jail?

HUCKABEE: I have no idea. It`s embarrassing that these people were put in prison for doing their jobs, and what they should have been given is a medal, not a prison sentence. It`s an outrage. We ought to be building a secure border.

I want to be very clear: I don`t begrudge that people want to come to this country. Glenn, I`ve said many times, I want to say again, I thank God every day that I live in a country people are trying to break into, not one they`re trying to break out of.

But we ought not to make it so easy that it`s harder for me to get on an airplane in Little Rock, Arkansas, and go somewhere in the next state than it is for somebody to jump an international border.

I`m not mad at the immigrants. I am angry at our government for completely being derelict in fixing this problem by having a secure border, making me go through taking my toothpaste out and put it in a plastic bag, so I can get on a plane, but somebody can jump the border and they don`t even so much have a piece of paper with them to tell me who they are, where they`ve been, and if they have a criminal background.

BECK: OK, so how do you fix it? Because you have the DREAM Act going through. You have members of Congress openly — I mean, I have to tell you, I think America needs to reread the Declaration of Independence, because I feel exactly the way our founding fathers did. We keep begging you to solve these problems, and you cause repeated injury. You injury us again. You`ve got the DREAM Act going there. You have the AFL-CIO now suing in court to make sure that Chertoff can`t go get the companies. How do you solve it?

HUCKABEE: Well, you have to start with the border, because if you don`t do that, nothing matters. Everything else is nonsense and talk until you have a secure border and say, “It stops here.”

The second thing you do is you have to go after the companies. You`re not going to get illegals who don`t even speak the language to just lift their hand and say, “By the way, I`m here illegally.” What you do is you say, if you employ people, you have to know who they are, and they have to have verification of their citizenship or their legal status. And if you don`t have that, then it`s you that`s going to pay the fine.

You know, if you deal with the demand, the supply will take care of itself. And that`s what we have not done in this country.

I don't know what matters here... You say he supports amnesty, but amnesty is far from naturilzation. There seems to be a common mix up. I don't support amnesty and truthfully I'm with Mike on this. WE MUST secure the boarders before any other things are done.

[ConstitutionGal]

Even with that, the free market will still have a demand for Immigrants, its just a question of whether we will let the free market employ them legally, or illegally.

Open Borders = people go undocumented.

I think once we DRASTICALLY downsize the welfare state, we'll see a LOT less need for any immigrant workers because people will find out that they have to work if they want to eat - something even the Bible advocates and talks about in several places even though we are told to look after the widows and orphans (and I would add the TRULY disabled).

[ConstitutionGal]

Oooh wow nice way to take his possitions out of context. I'd kindly direct you to wikipedia to check his fiscal record for yourself...

Now of course you'll say he still supports amnesty...

I don't know what matters here... You say he supports amnesty, but amnesty is far from naturilzation. There seems to be a common mix up. I don't support amnesty and truthfully I'm with Mike on this. WE MUST secure the boarders before any other things are done.

To grant amesty in this case is to confer citizenship with all the rights and priviledges that entails. As Dr. Paul has pointed out, when you subsidize something, you get more of it. The amnesty nonsense has been tried before (always with a promise of then securing the borders that has never materialized). This invasion is being allowed to continue to bring us closer to a merger with Mexico. Think about it, one more amnesty and guess how these new 'citizens' are going to be encouraging their elected officials to vote so they can more easily get the rest of their impovrished relatives here.

[werdd]

Oooh wow nice way to take his possitions out of context. I'd kindly direct you to wikipedia to check his fiscal record for yourself...





Now of course you'll say he still supports amnesty...



I don't know what matters here... You say he supports amnesty, but amnesty is far from naturilzation. There seems to be a common mix up. I don't support amnesty and truthfully I'm with Mike on this. WE MUST secure the boarders before any other things are done.

I read your blog, and your a blatant huckabee supporter.

Quote:
"I also disagree with Paul about his foreign policy I vehemently oppose the UN and all it stands for. I’m with Huckabee here I think that once we loose our self respect through international compliance then we loose our identity. Ron Paul thinks International takes precedence over US law and that the war is against many of these laws (as well as the constitution). I think preemptivity is justified for our national defense. True I want our troops home as much as any American, but not now! When we can leave with honor then we can leave."

You are so wrong it is unreal. Ron Paul is the PREMEIR opposition to the UN, NATO any international organization. He is against the Iraq war because it was a war to enforce UN resolutions. You are certainly, a "high school conservative".

Huckabee want's amnesty, open borders, bigger goverment, more war's to enforce UN resolutions, He increased taxes in Arkansas by 40% some odd percent, and want's to tax smokers. He is a liberal, in conservatives clothing.

I don't lurk around on the hucksarmy forums, why are you trolling around here.

[Shogun108]

Huckabee want's amnesty, open borders, bigger goverment, more war's to enforce UN resolutions, He increased taxes in Arkansas by 40% some odd percent, and want's to tax smokers. He is a liberal, in conservatives clothing.

You couldn't be more wrong... First of all that "fact" you cite about Huck's fiscal record is an utter falsity second he despises the UN with a passion. Third he wants to close our boarders and dispises amnesty. Fourth he wants smaller government...

I admit I was ignorant on Ron Paul standings on UN. The conclusion was drawn from his statements on foreign law. He says that the US should keep with foreign law. Poppycock! That's the only reason I said that. So in a sense I concede I was wrong about Paul there. That is thanks to all of you helpful paulites!

That is the reason I'm here. To educate and be educated.

[RickSp]

What a completely incoherent statement.

LOL. You seem incapable of understanding that free markets and free people are incompatible with your wall building jack-booted xeonophobia.

[werdd]

You couldn't be more wrong... First of all that "fact" you cite about Huck's fiscal record is an utter falsity second he despises the UN with a passion. Third he wants to close our boarders and dispises amnesty. Fourth he wants smaller government...

I admit I was ignorant on Ron Paul standings on UN. The conclusion was drawn from his statements on foreign law. He says that the US should keep with foreign law. Poppycock! That's the only reason I said that. So in a sense I concede I was wrong about Paul there. That is thanks to all of you helpful paulites!

That is the reason I'm here. To educate and be educated.

Sales Tax, 1996 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 11/07/96)
Gas and Diesel Fuel Taxes, 1999 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 04/02/99, 04/25/99)
Sales Tax, 2000 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 09/25/02)
Cigarette Tax, 2001 (Associated Press, 04/02/01)
Nursing Home Bed Tax, 2001 (Associated Press, 06/25/01)
Sales Tax, 2002 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 11/15/02)
Income Surcharge Tax, 2003 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 10/09/07)
Tobacco Tax, 2003 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 10/09/07)
Internet Taxes, 2004 (Bond Buyer, 02/24/04)

Those are all huckabee introduced taxes while he was governor.

Asked if he would support President Bush's veto of the budget-busting increase in the children's health care program SCHIP, Mr. Huckabee declined to say he would have issued a similar veto "because there are going to be so many issues we've got to fight. And the political loss of that is going to be enormous."

Huckabee will not agree with the presidents vetoing of schip, a BIG Goverment bill giving "children" up to the age of 25 healthcare, he wont even stand up for small goverment, at the expense of big goverment socialized healthcare of the hillary brand.

According to the Democrat-Gazette, “the average Arkansan’s tax burden grew from $1,969 in the fiscal year that ended June 30, 1997, to $2,902 in the fiscal year that ended June 30, 2005, including local taxes,” a whopping tax increase of 47% under Huckabee’s tenure. Tax legislation passed while Huckabee was governor totaled “a net tax increase of $505 million, a figure adjusted for inflation and economic growth,” according to the Arkansas Department of Finance and Administration.

47% increase in Arkansas. Close to the number that we will get with a hillary presidency, Mike = Liberal.

[steph3n]

LOL. You seem incapable of understanding that free markets and free people are incompatible with your wall building jack-booted xeonophobia.

Rick,

We have national borders that must be enforced, but the fact remains take away the welfare and they go back on their own.

[steph3n]

You couldn't be more wrong... First of all that "fact" you cite about Huck's fiscal record is an utter falsity second he despises the UN with a passion. Third he wants to close our boarders and dispises amnesty. Fourth he wants smaller government...

I admit I was ignorant on Ron Paul standings on UN. The conclusion was drawn from his statements on foreign law. He says that the US should keep with foreign law. Poppycock! That's the only reason I said that. So in a sense I concede I was wrong about Paul there. That is thanks to all of you helpful paulites!

That is the reason I'm here. To educate and be educated.

Ron Paul has made one reference to international law and it was in th context of both "the constitution AND international law"

however there is no talking to you, you are blinded by huckabee love, so just go back and worship at his feet some more. You have no desire to really learn where Ron Paul stands, or the fact that he is right on foreign policy. You simply refuse to even open your mind to the fact that you are wrong on it.

[werdd]

LOL. You seem incapable of understanding that free markets and free people are incompatible with your wall building jack-booted xeonophobia.

If you run out of arguements just call your opponent racist.

[Cindy]

!

Wow.. can someone say "fllliiiipppp fllllooopppppeeer"




FLIP FLOPPER!!!
We should send a youtube of it to Fox. In a post debate interview, Huckleflop was carrying on about being tough on illegals and securing our borders. He did the same on Glen Beck last week. Beck should get a video clip of Huck going over Amnesty now. Becks blood will boil and he'll turn on him, where as during the interview, Beck was gooing over Huckleflop when he was talking tough on illegals and the borders.

[Shogun108]

Sales Tax, 1996 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 11/07/96)
Gas and Diesel Fuel Taxes, 1999 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 04/02/99, 04/25/99)
Sales Tax, 2000 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 09/25/02)
Cigarette Tax, 2001 (Associated Press, 04/02/01)
Nursing Home Bed Tax, 2001 (Associated Press, 06/25/01)
Sales Tax, 2002 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 11/15/02)
Income Surcharge Tax, 2003 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 10/09/07)
Tobacco Tax, 2003 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 10/09/07)
Internet Taxes, 2004 (Bond Buyer, 02/24/04)

Sales Tax 1996, 2000, 2002

Huckabee didn’t "sign a sales tax hike." An overwhelming 80% of the voters chose to do so through an amendment to their state's constitution.

Gas and Diesel Taxes 1999

80% of the voters supported a four cent tax on diesel fuel to fix the roads through the same process voters approved a tax increasing the sales tax.

Cigarette Tax 2001, 2003

The CFG doesn’t provide the baseline tax rate so let's go with the current rate of 6%. If Huckabee increased the rate by 36%, then he raised the sales tax .0384 cents during his ten years in office. By using the percentage rather than the actual total increase, they are able to make it sound much more nefarious.

Nursing Home Bed Tax 2001

Arkansas Health Care Association President Jim Cooper stated that the private nursing home tax was necessary in order to avert future huge tax increases as a result of years of mismanagement.

Income Surcharge Tax 2003

Covered in quote: Later repealed by him...

Internet Taxes 2004

Indeed, Huckabee joined 43 other governors in sending a "strong and unified message to Congress: deal fairly with Main Street retailers, consumers, and local governments."

The letter said, "If you care about a level playing field for Main Street retail businesses and local control of states, local governments, and schools, extend the moratorium on taxing Internet access ONLY with authorization for the states to streamline and simplify the existing sales tax system. To do otherwise perpetuates a fundamental inequity and ignores a growing problem….The loophole creates serious budget problems for schools, states, and local governments. A study estimated that states could lose as much as $14 billion by 2004 if they are unable to collect existing taxes on Web-based sales. Nearly half of state revenues come from sales taxes."

FACTS: Huckabee...

* Pushed through a Democrat legislature the first, major broad based tax cuts in the state's history.
* Pushed through a Democrat legislature an $80 million tax cut package.
* Cut the state's capital gains tax by 25%.
* Established a Property Taxpayers' Bill of Rights
* Limited the increase in property taxes to 10% a year for individuals and 5% per taxing unit
* Eliminated the income tax for families below the poverty line.
* Increased the standard deductions.
* Eliminated the marriage penalty.
* Eliminated bracket creep by indexing the income taxes to inflation, thereby preventing taxpayers from moving into a higher bracket when their paychecks increase due to inflations.
* Doubled the child care tax credit.
* Eliminated capital gains tax on the sale of a home.


BLITZER: Although I suspect you've seen that list before. First of all, is all that true? Did you increase sales tax, gas taxes, cigarette taxes, all those other taxes, as they claim?

HUCKABEE: Well, not quite like that. In fact, the sales tax was a vote of the people. There was a constitutional amendment for conservation. The fuel taxes was a vote of the people. Eighty percent of the people in my state voted to improve roads.

Some of the taxes I did not sign. For example, the sales tax in '02 and the income surcharge, which was later repealed. And the nursing home bed tax actually was a quality assurance fee.

If people will go to my Web site they'll discover that it was supported by the industry and by people, because if we hadn't have done that, we would have had to have raised taxes to pay for nursing homes under Medicaid. And it would have shut half our nursing homes down.

You know, look... BLITZER: Why are they coming after you? What's your assessment?

HUCKABEE: I'm alive.

BLITZER: Why are they -- why are they coming after you like this? You're -- you've got a long conservative record as the governor of Arkansas.

HUCKABEE: Yes.

BLITZER: But they're saying you raised taxes, you weren't good on a whole bunch of other issues.

HUCKABEE: Yes.

BLITZER: What's your assessment? Why is this happening?

HUCKABEE: Because I'm a threat to some folks who really want an old-fashioned, establishment Republican that can be controlled by a handful of people on Wall Street. And you know what, Wolf? I can't.

I'm going to be a person who is going to be conservative, unapologetically. I have a record of that. I'm not a guy that's been all over the board. I've never been called a liberal. And that's a new one. But at the same time...

So what do you say now?

[werdd]

FLIP FLOPPER!!!
We should send a youtube of it to Fox. In a post debate interview, Huckleflop was carrying on about being tough on illegals and securing our borders. He did the same on Glen Beck last week. Beck should get a video clip of Huck going over Amnesty now. Becks blood will boil and he'll turn on him, where as during the interview, Beck was gooing over Huckleflop when he was talking tough on illegals and the borders.

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8435/catchinonis9.jpg

[Shogun108]

Ron Paul has made one reference to international law and it was in th context of both "the constitution AND international law"

however there is no talking to you, you are blinded by huckabee love, so just go back and worship at his feet some more. You have no desire to really learn where Ron Paul stands, or the fact that he is right on foreign policy. You simply refuse to even open your mind to the fact that you are wrong on it.

You see this is what greatly annoys me...:rolleyes:

People can be so close minded and assuming, but I have to say that your synicism is kinda funny. I'd say the same to you guys.

[werdd]

Sales Tax 1996, 2000, 2002

Huckabee didn’t "sign a sales tax hike." An overwhelming 80% of the voters chose to do so through an amendment to their state's constitution.

Gas and Diesel Taxes 1999

80% of the voters supported a four cent tax on diesel fuel to fix the roads through the same process voters approved a tax increasing the sales tax.

Cigarette Tax 2001, 2003

The CFG doesn’t provide the baseline tax rate so let's go with the current rate of 6%. If Huckabee increased the rate by 36%, then he raised the sales tax .0384 cents during his ten years in office. By using the percentage rather than the actual total increase, they are able to make it sound much more nefarious.

Nursing Home Bed Tax 2001

Arkansas Health Care Association President Jim Cooper stated that the private nursing home tax was necessary in order to avert future huge tax increases as a result of years of mismanagement.

Income Surcharge Tax 2003

Covered in quote: Later repealed by him...

Internet Taxes 2004

Indeed, Huckabee joined 43 other governors in sending a "strong and unified message to Congress: deal fairly with Main Street retailers, consumers, and local governments."

The letter said, "If you care about a level playing field for Main Street retail businesses and local control of states, local governments, and schools, extend the moratorium on taxing Internet access ONLY with authorization for the states to streamline and simplify the existing sales tax system. To do otherwise perpetuates a fundamental inequity and ignores a growing problem….The loophole creates serious budget problems for schools, states, and local governments. A study estimated that states could lose as much as $14 billion by 2004 if they are unable to collect existing taxes on Web-based sales. Nearly half of state revenues come from sales taxes."

FACTS: Huckabee...

* Pushed through a Democrat legislature the first, major broad based tax cuts in the state's history.
* Pushed through a Democrat legislature an $80 million tax cut package.
* Cut the state's capital gains tax by 25%.
* Established a Property Taxpayers' Bill of Rights
* Limited the increase in property taxes to 10% a year for individuals and 5% per taxing unit
* Eliminated the income tax for families below the poverty line.
* Increased the standard deductions.
* Eliminated the marriage penalty.
* Eliminated bracket creep by indexing the income taxes to inflation, thereby preventing taxpayers from moving into a higher bracket when their paychecks increase due to inflations.
* Doubled the child care tax credit.
* Eliminated capital gains tax on the sale of a home.



So what do you say now?

Fact: Taxes increased 47% through the duration of huckabees governership. Lib

[steph3n]

You see this is what greatly annoys me...:rolleyes:

People can be so close minded and assuming, but I have to say that your synicism is kinda funny. I'd say the same to you guys.

Incorrect, my views have changed in the last 6 months, when I admitted I was wrong and studied the matters.

btw it is cynicism.

[Shogun108]

Fact: Taxes increased 47% through the duration of huckabees governership. Lib

Index that for the 51% population growth... :D


Incorrect, my views have changed in the last 6 months, when I admitted I was wrong and studied the matters.

btw it is cynicism.

I was saying you are close minded by calling me close minded. "Juge not lest you shall be judged."

[werdd]

Index that for the 51% population growth... :D



I was saying you are close minded by calling me close minded. "Juge not lest you shall be judged."

taxes increased 47% during huckabees governorship.

that has nothing to do with the freaking population, the average person paid twice what they did in taxes than before he became governor. If theres more people, then if anything the tax rate can be reduced.

And yes the "fair tax" would be a roughly 200% tax increase on people, and would destroy the free-market. People would never buy anything.

[steph3n]

Index that for the 51% population growth... :D



I was saying you are close minded by calling me close minded. "Juge not lest you shall be judged."

No you have stated your closed mind to it already, so I was stating what you have already said. will you take a tin foil hat in place of your dunce hat?

[Shogun108]

taxes increased 47% during huckabees governorship.

that has nothing to do with the freaking population, the average person paid twice what they did in taxes than before he became governor. If theres more people, then if anything the tax rate can be reduced.

Huckabee did not raise spending by 50%. With respect to the spending that the Governor had under his control, spending rose about six-tenths of one percent a year during his ten-and-a-half year tenure.

Also when population goes up so does spending and the amount of money generated through taxes.


And yes the "fair tax" would be a roughly 200% tax increase on people, and would destroy the free-market. People would never buy anything.

Wrong Wrong Wrong! Do some reading on the act... Don't be a sponge for oposition. It would not destroy the free market it would revitalize it! The US would become the tax haven of the world! seriously read "The Fair Tax" book you obviously have not...

[Shogun108]

No you have stated your closed mind to it already, so I was stating what you have already said. will you take a tin foil hat in place of your dunce hat?

Sure of course I need that tin hat lest you guys read my brain :D

I'm joking of course...

[RickSp]

If you run out of arguements just call your opponent racist.


Spare me. I referred to you as xenophobe. If however you think racist applies to you better, then so be it.

And I am not the one who has run out of arguments. You seem to be the one ducking the obvious question - how do you reconcile your police state anti-immigration proposals with a free trade and a free society? The supporters of tyranny are always the ones to start building walls and imagining enemies at the gates.

[steph3n]

Spare me. I referred to you as xenophobe. If however you think racist applies to you better, then so be it.

And I am not the one who has run out of arguments. You seem to be the one ducking the obvious question - how do you reconcile your police state anti-immigration proposals with a free trade and a free society? The supporters of tyranny are always the ones to start building walls and imagining enemies at the gates.

your argument here is really going circular, because with a free society and a free market, they will be just as well in Mexico as in the US, because they won't have welfare here.

[werdd]

Huckabee did not raise spending by 50%. With respect to the spending that the Governor had under his control, spending rose about six-tenths of one percent a year during his ten-and-a-half year tenure.

Also when population goes up so does spending and the amount of money generated through taxes.



Wrong Wrong Wrong! Do some reading on the act... Don't be a sponge for oposition. It would not destroy the free market it would revitalize it! The US would become the tax haven of the world! seriously read "The Fair Tax" book you obviously have not...

I didnt say anything about spending, taxes went up 47% - and population increase is irrelevent in defense. I got a governor in Texas just like Mike, literally the same person. You probably like Rick Perry though. Lib.

[werdd]

Spare me. I referred to you as xenophobe. If however you think racist applies to you better, then so be it.

And I am not the one who has run out of arguments. You seem to be the one ducking the obvious question - how do you reconcile your police state anti-immigration proposals with a free trade and a free society? The supporters of tyranny are always the ones to start building walls and imagining enemies at the gates.

How am i an advocate for police state, when i just want people to enter this country legally, or not at all. If we had done this all along, 9/11 would have never happened.

Your ducking my question, as to how you think drawing a chalk line on the border and saying OKAY GUYS DONT CROSS IT WE WILL LIKE TOTALLY DEPORT YOU IF WE EVER CATCH YOU is going to work.

[RickSp]

your argument here is really going circular, because with a free society and a free market, they will be just as well in Mexico as in the US, because they won't have welfare here.

Excuse me? As the overwhelming majority of immigrants come to the United States to work, suggesting that they attracted to welfare programs is ridiculous. It has no basis in reality.

[steph3n]

Excuse me? As the overwhelming majority of immigrants come to the United States to work, suggesting that they attracted to welfare programs is ridiculous. It has no basis in reality.

incorrect, they can't live on the wages and get on welfare to live.

[werdd]

Excuse me? As the overwhelming majority of immigrants come to the United States to work, suggesting that they attracted to welfare programs is ridiculous. It has no basis in reality.

Okay youve been bitching at us, what do you think we should do. Outline your plan sir

[RickSp]

How am i an advocate for police state, when i just want people to enter this country legally, or not at all. If we had done this all along, 9/11 would have never happened.

Your ducking my question, as to how you think drawing a chalk line on the border and saying OKAY GUYS DONT CROSS IT WE WILL LIKE TOTALLY DEPORT YOU IF WE EVER CATCH YOU is going to work.

Oh Jaysus. The 9/11 hijackers entered this country perfectly legally using student tourists visas. Got that? They all entered legally. So if you think that building walls to stop Mexicans from coming to the US to work has anything whatsover to do with stopping terrorism, you are obviously uniformed.

What we need to do is to scrap the law that effectively prohibits Mexican workers from working legally in this country. Immigration law should provide an orderly means to allow guest workers and, for those who qualify, a path to citizenship.

[werdd]

Oh Jaysus. The 9/11 hijackers entered this country perfectly legally using student tourists visas. Got that? They all entered legally. So if you think that building walls to stop Mexicans from coming to the US to work has anything whatsover to do with stopping terrorism, you are obviously uniformed.

What we need to do is to scrap the law that effectively prohibits Mexican workers from working legally in this country. Immigration law should provide an orderly means to allow guest workers and, for those who qualify, a path to citizenship.

expired visas.

It appears we agree, that immigration should be legal. It's just that you, dont want to do anything about the ILLEGAL immigration.

[steph3n]

expired visas.

It appears we agree, that immigration should be legal. It's just that you, dont want to do anything about the ILLEGAL immigration.

I don't think we should hire 10,000+ police to round them up and deport them, but they will leave on their own when the benefits are gone.

[Primbs]

Mike Huckabee is on CNN right now pushing In-state tuition for illegal aliens and Dream Act amnesty provisions!

Wow.. can someone say "fllliiiipppp fllllooopppppeeer"

So, tax hike mike loves taxes and pandering... nice mike, way to gooo!!

Then Huckabee is no longer a top tier candidate.

Only about 90 % of Republicans oppose that. Don't they remember the immigration bill from this summer where the Senate had to turn off the phones and phones systems crashed because people were against immigration amnesty.

Then McCain campaign's imploded as well.

[Shogun108]

I didnt say anything about spending, taxes went up 47% - and population increase is irrelevent in defense. I got a governor in Texas just like Mike, literally the same person. You probably like Rick Perry though. Lib.

Why thank you I am a Lib-ertarian

I think your just averting your mind from information provided you and refuse to believe that wich is contrary to your beliefs. Oh well... this is what I expect from you guys. Have fun fooling yourselves I'm sure in the end you'll be right and you can laugh at me... ;)

[steph3n]

Why thank you I am a Lib-ertarian

I think your just averting your mind from information provided you and refuse to believe that wich is contrary to your beliefs. Oh well... this is what I expect from you guys. Have fun fooling yourselves I'm sure in the end you'll be right and you can laugh at me... ;)

your time would be better spent getting huckabee on the ballot so you can actually vote for him.

[Hank]

Huckabee is a monster. He is for big government, the War in Iraq, and wants to ban cigarettes.

[Shogun108]

your time would be better spent getting huckabee on the ballot so you can actually vote for him.


Huckabee is a monster. He is for big government, the War in Iraq, and wants to ban cigarettes.

:D You guys are great! You make my day all the more bright!

[Syren123]

America is a nation of immigrants, and we have laws that are to be enforced as well, solving the root problem will force those here to go home and get in line legally ;)

Nope. I'm not an immigrant. I was born here to US citizen parents.
That's a fake argument and I'm tired of hearing it as some sort of justification for the illegal immigration supporters.

[conner_condor]

Sales Tax 1996, 2000, 2002

Huckabee didn’t "sign a sales tax hike." An overwhelming 80% of the voters chose to do so through an amendment to their state's constitution.

Gas and Diesel Taxes 1999

80% of the voters supported a four cent tax on diesel fuel to fix the roads through the same process voters approved a tax increasing the sales tax.

Cigarette Tax 2001, 2003

The CFG doesn’t provide the baseline tax rate so let's go with the current rate of 6%. If Huckabee increased the rate by 36%, then he raised the sales tax .0384 cents during his ten years in office. By using the percentage rather than the actual total increase, they are able to make it sound much more nefarious.

Nursing Home Bed Tax 2001

Arkansas Health Care Association President Jim Cooper stated that the private nursing home tax was necessary in order to avert future huge tax increases as a result of years of mismanagement.

Income Surcharge Tax 2003

Covered in quote: Later repealed by him...

Internet Taxes 2004

Indeed, Huckabee joined 43 other governors in sending a "strong and unified message to Congress: deal fairly with Main Street retailers, consumers, and local governments."

The letter said, "If you care about a level playing field for Main Street retail businesses and local control of states, local governments, and schools, extend the moratorium on taxing Internet access ONLY with authorization for the states to streamline and simplify the existing sales tax system. To do otherwise perpetuates a fundamental inequity and ignores a growing problem….The loophole creates serious budget problems for schools, states, and local governments. A study estimated that states could lose as much as $14 billion by 2004 if they are unable to collect existing taxes on Web-based sales. Nearly half of state revenues come from sales taxes."

FACTS: Huckabee...

* Pushed through a Democrat legislature the first, major broad based tax cuts in the state's history.
* Pushed through a Democrat legislature an $80 million tax cut package.
* Cut the state's capital gains tax by 25%.
* Established a Property Taxpayers' Bill of Rights
* Limited the increase in property taxes to 10% a year for individuals and 5% per taxing unit
* Eliminated the income tax for families below the poverty line.
* Increased the standard deductions.
* Eliminated the marriage penalty.
* Eliminated bracket creep by indexing the income taxes to inflation, thereby preventing taxpayers from moving into a higher bracket when their paychecks increase due to inflations.
* Doubled the child care tax credit.
* Eliminated capital gains tax on the sale of a home.



So what do you say now?

You are a huck supporter is what i say.. Your a troll for his site..

[Shogun108]

You are a huck supporter is what i say.. Your a troll for his site..

;) Good answer and partially correct...

[Hank]

Huckabee has not stated that the USA should get out of the United Nations and other entangling alliances!

Huckabee has not stated that he opposes the "War on Drugs." In fact, he wants to expand it to cigarettes!

Huckabee has not opposed the "War in Iraq." He wants to continue it!

Huckabee is nothing but a NEOCON!

[angelatc]

Now of course you'll say he still supports amnesty...



I don't know what matters here... You say he supports amnesty, but amnesty is far from naturalization. There seems to be a common mix up. I don't support amnesty and truthfully I'm with Mike on this. WE MUST secure the boarders before any other things are done.

Borders.

And I'm not with Mike. I have no problem punishing the kids for the sins of their parents. I'd let them retain the right to apply for citizenship, but no way would I finance their education. Mexican kids belong to the Mexicans.

And isn't he the idiot that started weighing the school kids? Great - here come the diet police.

Every time some one in the debate asked him for a solution, he started with "Well, I'd start a program...." Dude! I'm a Repunlican! I don't want programs!

Doubled the child care tax credit? Socialism.
Eliminated income taxes for the poor? Socialism.
Brags about limiting property tax increases of 10% per year? Uh - that's a lot.

[Hank]

I forgot... he wants to abolish the income tax (that cannot even pay the interest on the national debt) and then REPLACE it with a gigantic sales tax!

It's like finding someone that wants to end the "War on Drugs" to start the "War on Food."

[jmdrake]

;) Good answer and partially correct...

No. It's totally correct. You're a troll. I went to your blog. You wrote:

ATTENTION PAULITES!- We know of your existence so if you want to talk about Ron Paul go to your own corner of the web and spam, but doing it on another campaign blog is uncalled for! It wouldn’t be so bad if you knew what you where talking about.

Yet you claim that you are here to "educate and be educated"? Talk about flip flopping! You post a link to your blog on a Ron Paul forum and then whine and complain about "Paulites spamming" you? You tell us to go to our "own corner of the web"? Hello? Earth to Huck supporter. If you post on the forum of another candidate inviting them to "check out" your blog it is beyond childish to chide them for posting comments about said candidate!

Now on to your man Huckabee. I'm sure underneath it all you're a decent person. I'm sure a lot of decent people have been hoodwinked by the Huckster. Take the HSLDA for instance. (Home Schoolers legal defense association). But if you look at their website they only have 10 articles mentioning Huckabee (17 if you include duplicate pages).

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=Huckabee&hl=en&num=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=www.hslda.org&as_rights=&safe=off

Six of the links are to the same interview of gov Huckabee by the HSLDA. Two links were to stories about a law Huckabee passed in 1997 that was favorable to homeschoolers. One was to a 1997 law lowering the mandatory school age to 5 a move MOST homeschoolers are against! And then there was one link to a story of Huckabee amending the law in 2003 to force homeschoolers to submit to standardized testing or face truancy charges. So out of 10 links you have one interview, 1 positive action and 2 negative actions. And this gets an endorsement?

By contrast there 37 Ron Paul hits on the same site and they are ALL POSITIVE!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&as_qdr=all&q=Ron+Paul+site%3Awww.hslda.org&btnG=Search

So why did the HSLDA endorse the Huckster over Paul? It all comes down to this.

http://thinkaware.blogspot.com/2007/08/hslda-supports-mike-huckabee.html
He believes and is willing to say that Islamic extremism needs to be understood as a theologically driven threat.

While Ron Paul is at least as strong if not stronger on EVERY legitimate issue that the HSLDA praises the Huckster for, Ron Paul just won't bow down and worship at the Bush alter of "They attacked us for our freedoms" ideology. Ron Paul wants a foreign policy based on rationalism and that's just an anathema to some people. Some homeschoolers are quite upset with the HSLDA over this.

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/RonPaul2008/359668/

Now back to the immigration issue. One man's amnesty is another man's ...well whatever they want to call it today. George Bush and Ted Kennedy all say their amnesty bills aren't amnesty. Huckster says his amnesty proposal isn't amnesty. And their supporters will stand up and parrot these talking points regardless of the facts. One thing is clear though. All of these proposals, Bush's, Kennedy's and Huckster's, have one thing in common. They all reward those who break the rules over those that don't. I personally know young people who legally immigrated to this country that can't get into college because of their residency status. And note, I'm not even talking about getting government scholarships like the Huckster is advocating! Why are people who try to follow the rules always being pushed to the back of the line by people like Mike Huckabee? Say what you will, but it IS amnesty. It IS rewarding those who break the rules at the expense of those who follow them. And it IS a flip flop from his earlier position. But hey, he's ready to stand up against them AAAYRABS and continue fighting a war even HE knows is a bad idea because of our honor? It's honorable not to admit you made a mistake? It's honorable to give companies like Blackwater an unrestricted license to kill without repercussion? What a joke.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[werdd]

No. It's totally correct. You're a troll. I went to your blog. You wrote:

ATTENTION PAULITES!- We know of your existence so if you want to talk about Ron Paul go to your own corner of the web and spam, but doing it on another campaign blog is uncalled for! It wouldn’t be so bad if you knew what you where talking about.

Yet you claim that you are here to "educate and be educated"? Talk about flip flopping! You post a link to your blog on a Ron Paul forum and then whine and complain about "Paulites spamming" you? You tell us to go to our "own corner of the web"? Hello? Earth to Huck supporter. If you post on the forum of another candidate inviting them to "check out" your blog it is beyond childish to chide them for posting comments about said candidate!

Now on to your man Huckabee. I'm sure underneath it all you're a decent person. I'm sure a lot of decent people have been hoodwinked by the Huckster. Take the HSLDA for instance. (Home Schoolers legal defense association). But if you look at their website they only have 10 articles mentioning Huckabee (17 if you include duplicate pages).

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=Huckabee&hl=en&num=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=www.hslda.org&as_rights=&safe=off

Six of the links are to the same interview of gov Huckabee by the HSLDA. Two links were to stories about a law Huckabee passed in 1997 that was favorable to homeschoolers. One was to a 1997 law lowering the mandatory school age to 5 a move MOST homeschoolers are against! And then there was one link to a story of Huckabee amending the law in 2003 to force homeschoolers to submit to standardized testing or face truancy charges. So out of 10 links you have one interview, 1 positive action and 2 negative actions. And this gets an endorsement?

By contrast there 37 Ron Paul hits on the same site and they are ALL POSITIVE!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&as_qdr=all&q=Ron+Paul+site%3Awww.hslda.org&btnG=Search

So why did the HSLDA endorse the Huckster over Paul? It all comes down to this.

http://thinkaware.blogspot.com/2007/08/hslda-supports-mike-huckabee.html
He believes and is willing to say that Islamic extremism needs to be understood as a theologically driven threat.

While Ron Paul is at least as strong if not stronger on EVERY legitimate issue that the HSLDA praises the Huckster for, Ron Paul just won't bow down and worship at the Bush alter of "They attacked us for our freedoms" ideology. Ron Paul wants a foreign policy based on rationalism and that's just an anathema to some people. Some homeschoolers are quite upset with the HSLDA over this.

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/RonPaul2008/359668/

Now back to the immigration issue. One man's amnesty is another man's ...well whatever they want to call it today. George Bush and Ted Kennedy all say their amnesty bills aren't amnesty. Huckster says his amnesty proposal isn't amnesty. And their supporters will stand up and parrot these talking points regardless of the facts. One thing is clear though. All of these proposals, Bush's, Kennedy's and Huckster's, have one thing in common. They all reward those who break the rules over those that don't. I personally know young people who legally immigrated to this country that can't get into college because of their residency status. And note, I'm not even talking about getting government scholarships like the Huckster is advocating! Why are people who try to follow the rules always being pushed to the back of the line by people like Mike Huckabee? Say what you will, but it IS amnesty. It IS rewarding those who break the rules at the expense of those who follow them. And it IS a flip flop from his earlier position. But hey, he's ready to stand up against them AAAYRABS and continue fighting a war even HE knows is a bad idea because of our honor? It's honorable not to admit you made a mistake? It's honorable to give companies like Blackwater an unrestricted license to kill without repercussion? What a joke.

Regards,

John M. Drake

^i already pwned him in a similar fashion, he will continue to troll on false premises.

[Lord Xar]

So, Lets compile a bunch of hucklebees flipflopping and put the info out there.

[Shogun108]

^i already pwned him in a similar fashion, he will continue to troll on false premises.

:rolleyes: No comment I'll give you your imaginary victory... Bathe in your glory you deserve it for pwning me. You should scorn me for everything because I am an ignorant and belligerent troll who deserves to not be here. You should drown yourself in your wonderful ego while smearing it on others. You have your fun. Ridicule me. I know you will. I pity the good doctor he deserves a much better type of support he has. Scorn will only get you so far. Negativity will get nowhere. Dishonesty will breed incredibility. And in the end you will be biting your own behind. I leave it to you supporters to be Paul's downfall. It would be ironic and sad at the same time.

I respect him greatly... you guys not too much... So again have fun replying to this and calling me a defeatist. I know you will... Have fun calling me uninformed. I know you will. Have fun spurning my views and rejecting them all. I know you will.

Silence is consent, but aggression is submission. Oxymoronish, but an interesting tenet. Be of good faith. You do yourself no good in your current actions.

Remember Gandhi's words:

“Whenever you are confronted with an opponent. Conquer him with love.”

All I can do now is pray...

Again you will of course attack me and you have every right to, but you know what? I will convince some of your supporters who actually support Paul to leave on your behalf.... ANYWAY I'm sounding way to dull I doubt you even care what I say... :D

I care what you say though... The little that you do...

By the way I'll still be here!

[werdd]

:rolleyes: No comment I'll give you your imaginary victory... Bathe in your glory you deserve it for pwning me. You should scorn me for everything because I am an ignorant and belligerent troll who deserves to not be here. You should drown yourself in your wonderful ego while smearing it on others. You have your fun. Ridicule me. I know you will. I pity the good doctor he deserves a much better type of support he has. Scorn will only get you so far. Negativity will get nowhere. Dishonesty will breed incredibility. And in the end you will be biting your own behind. I leave it to you supporters to be Paul's downfall. It would be ironic and sad at the same time.

I respect him greatly... you guys not too much... So again have fun replying to this and calling me a defeatist. I know you will... Have fun calling me uninformed. I know you will. Have fun spurning my views and rejecting them all. I know you will.

Silence is consent, but aggression is submission. Oxymoronish, but an interesting tenet. Be of good faith. You do yourself no good in your current actions.

Remember Gandhi's words:

“Whenever you are confronted with an opponent. Conquer him with love.”

All I can do now is pray...

Again you will of course attack me and you have every right to, but you know what? I will convince some of your supporters who actually support Paul to leave on your behalf.... ANYWAY I'm sounding way to dull I doubt you even care what I say... :D

I care what you say though... The little that you do...

By the way I'll still be here!

Yeah you are pulling support from us everyday, /endsarcasm

[werdd]

Originally Posted by TVMH
Right on, fcofer.

I would actually like to see a one-on-one debate between a Ron Paul supporter and a Huckabee supporter.

A moderated debate with points given for factual analyses and comments and points taken away for ad hominem attacks, red herrings, strawmen, and other such nonsense.

shogun108/millerkevd, I hereby challenge you to debate me on foreign policy.
(we can probably get one of the admins to lock the forum to allow just you and me, and I imagine we could get some moderator questions/time-limit rules established, as well. I will take the position that we are to withdraw immediately from Iraq and you may take the position that we must remain in Iraq.)

Also, I am always intrigued by a forum that purports to be constitutionalists while at the same time censoring others' viewpoints...this is the mark of cowardice.

I'd like to go over there and discuss issues rationally, but I don't feel like wasting my time, because I imagine I would be censored for nothing more than asking honest and respectful questions that the members there don't really want to answer (I'm generalizing, of course, but that is my own personal impression).

Oh well, I guess some people are incapable introspection.


You have been challenged

Iron debate, tonights ingrediant Liberty.. i dont think the huck supporter will fair so well considering this is a foreign ingrediant where he is from.

[steph3n]

better start reading up on the constitution, Jefferson, Washington, and newer books like Imperial Hubris, Blowback, etc :)


Originally Posted by TVMH
Right on, fcofer.

I would actually like to see a one-on-one debate between a Ron Paul supporter and a Huckabee supporter.

A moderated debate with points given for factual analyses and comments and points taken away for ad hominem attacks, red herrings, strawmen, and other such nonsense.

shogun108/millerkevd, I hereby challenge you to debate me on foreign policy.
(we can probably get one of the admins to lock the forum to allow just you and me, and I imagine we could get some moderator questions/time-limit rules established, as well. I will take the position that we are to withdraw immediately from Iraq and you may take the position that we must remain in Iraq.)

Also, I am always intrigued by a forum that purports to be constitutionalists while at the same time censoring others' viewpoints...this is the mark of cowardice.

I'd like to go over there and discuss issues rationally, but I don't feel like wasting my time, because I imagine I would be censored for nothing more than asking honest and respectful questions that the members there don't really want to answer (I'm generalizing, of course, but that is my own personal impression).

Oh well, I guess some people are incapable introspection.


You have been challenged

Iron debate, tonights ingrediant Liberty.. i dont think the huck supporter will fair so well considering this is a foreign ingrediant where he is from.

[wgadget]

http://www.betterimmigration.com/candidates/2006/prez08_gop1.html

Huckleberry is on page 2.

[Shogun108]

Foreign policy... darn lackluster as it is fine I'll do It. I sent werdd a message...

We'll see how it turns out.

[UCFGavin]

hahaha, there is a huckabee troll here?

[TVMH]

Foreign policy... darn lackluster as it is fine I'll do It. I sent werdd a message...

We'll see how it turns out.

Got your PM.

As I mentioned in one of my other posts, we will need to establish a format:

What is the topic? (I would like to go with foreign policy, but can pick whatever topic as long as I get to pick the side I want to defend);
What questions are to be posed? (this could be a bit more difficult, logisitically speaking...shouldn't be too hard to figure out, though...maybe use a poll? maybe start with the topic of withdrawal from Iraq);
Response time (how long does each person have to respond to a post by his opponent...24 hours should be enough time, but flexibility is necessary on this one...maybe 48 hours);
Scoring system...need someone objective to evaluate factual statements as opposed to who "looks the coolest" (you'd probably win that one since you're half my age :D );
Stipulation that no candidates are to be mentioned;
No "factual statement" is valid unless cited by an objective source (this is only fair).
Setting up the board by an admin (some of those guys are pretty busy, but I'll get in touch with foofighter and see what he says).


Let's Get Ready to RUMBLE!!!.

[Matt]

Shogun108, does this mean that we're welcome on Huck's forum? I checked it out and the TOS states that it's only for supporters so I didn't sign up. Of course we have no such requirement here. Might it be possible get that changed in the interest of fairness. It seems like the libertarian thing to do. ;)

[Lord Xar]

:rolleyes: No comment I'll give you your imaginary victory... Bathe in your glory you deserve it for pwning me. You should scorn me for everything because I am an ignorant and belligerent troll who deserves to not be here. You should drown yourself in your wonderful ego while smearing it on others. You have your fun. Ridicule me. I know you will. I pity the good doctor he deserves a much better type of support he has. Scorn will only get you so far. Negativity will get nowhere. Dishonesty will breed incredibility. And in the end you will be biting your own behind. I leave it to you supporters to be Paul's downfall. It would be ironic and sad at the same time.

I respect him greatly... you guys not too much... So again have fun replying to this and calling me a defeatist. I know you will... Have fun calling me uninformed. I know you will. Have fun spurning my views and rejecting them all. I know you will.

Silence is consent, but aggression is submission. Oxymoronish, but an interesting tenet. Be of good faith. You do yourself no good in your current actions.

Remember Gandhi's words:

“Whenever you are confronted with an opponent. Conquer him with love.”

All I can do now is pray...

Again you will of course attack me and you have every right to, but you know what? I will convince some of your supporters who actually support Paul to leave on your behalf.... ANYWAY I'm sounding way to dull I doubt you even care what I say... :D

I care what you say though... The little that you do...

By the way I'll still be here!

I don't understand your tactic. Well, perhaps I do. But I don't understand what you hope to gain by it.

First off, you come "here" - on this forum pushing your own agenda. Then you tell everyone how much you admire Ron Paul, yet you do not support him - instead, you support a flipflopper with little integrity. So, that totally calls into question everything you stand for and pose to preach.

I think you are just here to syphon ideas and then bring them to huckleberry. You post alot, you tell everyone how much you admire Ron Paul so as to dissuade outright attacks - but you are engaged in a very dishonest approach. Do you hit up the huckleberry forums posting "pro-ron paul" blogs etc...

You talk about "love and god" - This is not the jehovah witness forum. I am a firm believer in God - but unlike you, I base my vote on "real" issues, and how someone conducts themselves NOT ON What they say. Huckleberry is dishonest and lacks integrity. He panders and flips depending on the direction the wind is going. You are being dishonest with yourself and everyone here. It appears your faith has been easily cajoled and manipulated.

Follow me Shogun, I will show you a better way.... come to me.. come.. drink the koolaid.. drink it. come.. god, terror, islofascism, war of religion... god, terror, fight good against evil.

[LibertyOfOne]

I don't think we should hire 10,000+ police to round them up and deport them, but they will leave on their own when the benefits are gone.

What and kill the 4th amendment like the drug war has? How would you identify who is legal or not? Blanket raids?

[steph3n]

What and kill the 4th amendment like the drug war has? How would you identify who is legal or not? Blanket raids?

eh, did you see what I said, I said DO NOT HIRE.

[Shogun108]

I don't understand your tactic. Well, perhaps I do. But I don't understand what you hope to gain by it.

First off, you come "here" - on this forum pushing your own agenda. Then you tell everyone how much you admire Ron Paul, yet you do not support him - instead, you support a flipflopper with little integrity. So, that totally calls into question everything you stand for and pose to preach.

I think you are just here to syphon ideas and then bring them to huckleberry. You post alot, you tell everyone how much you admire Ron Paul so as to dissuade outright attacks - but you are engaged in a very dishonest approach. Do you hit up the huckleberry forums posting "pro-ron paul" blogs etc...

You talk about "love and god" - This is not the jehovah witness forum. I am a firm believer in God - but unlike you, I base my vote on "real" issues, and how someone conducts themselves NOT ON What they say. Huckleberry is dishonest and lacks integrity. He panders and flips depending on the direction the wind is going. You are being dishonest with yourself and everyone here. It appears your faith has been easily cajoled and manipulated.

Follow me Shogun, I will show you a better way.... come to me.. come.. drink the koolaid.. drink it. come.. god, terror, islofascism, war of religion... god, terror, fight good against evil.

I came here because I was enticed by your supporters to come here...

I am here for myself again I have respect for Ron Paul. I know your intentions are honest and forthright I respect your views. I suggest you do the same to mine. I understand how passionate you guys are about Paul. True you still see no reason for me to be here. I really don't either. I don't know why I bother call it a vice of mine. I like to understand the opinions of others. I feel I have learned a lot from you guys. This is not dishonesty at all it is truth I have changed my view of the Paul supporters here. I used to see what the MSM said, "Ron Paul Supporters are spammers and dishonest," as true. Now I know that there are honorable men and women under his wing, but there are rotten eggs there as well.

Let me break this to you bluntly. I like Ron Paul and Huckabee. The liberals in the GOP make me sick. We have a common goal in those grounds. So I guess I'm saying why do you insist on defaming Huckabee? Focus on your greater evil. If you believe Huckabee is dead then ignore him. Stop bringing him up.

I don't think attacking other candidates is an honest practice. However you have your views and I have mine. I would however appreciate it if you would not accuse me of dishonesty...

Please don't question my integrity...

[werdd]

I came here because I was enticed by your supporters to come here...

I am here for myself again I have respect for Ron Paul. I know your intentions are honest and forthright I respect your views. I suggest you do the same to mine. I understand how passionate you guys are about Paul. True you still see no reason for me to be here. I really don't either. I don't know why I bother call it a vice of mine. I like to understand the opinions of others. I feel I have learned a lot from you guys. This is not dishonesty at all it is truth I have changed my view of the Paul supporters here. I used to see what the MSM said, "Ron Paul Supporters are spammers and dishonest," as true. Now I know that there are honorable men and women under his wing, but there are rotten eggs there as well.

Let me break this to you bluntly. I like Ron Paul and Huckabee. The liberals in the GOP make me sick. We have a common goal in those grounds. So I guess I'm saying why do you insist on defaming Huckabee? Focus on your greater evil. If you believe Huckabee is dead then ignore him. Stop bringing him up.

I don't think attacking other candidates is an honest practice. However you have your views and I have mine. I would however appreciate it if you would not accuse me of dishonesty...

Please don't question my integrity...

So if the doctor wins the primaries, you will vote for him?

[Shogun108]

So if the doctor wins the primaries, you will vote for him?

I would vote for Ron Paul if he wins the nomination! :D

[Isupportliberty]

I would vote for Ron Paul if he wins the nomination! :D

would you care to donate to him as well? ;)

[literatim]

Mexican consulate deal dogs Huckabee campaign

One of Huckabee's Arkansas critics, long-time border-security activist Joe McCutchen, told WND that Freedom of Information Act documents he obtained show unusual business practices and possible improprieties in a 2006 Huckabee decision to attract a Mexican consulate to Little Rock.

Space in an Arkansas government facility was leased for $1 a year to the Mexican government to establish the Mexican consulate until a permanent Mexican consulate facility could be built, at the expense of Arkansas citizens and corporations.

McCutchen charges that Huckabee made the deal with Mexico in order to attract illegal immigrants into the state to work in politically connected Arkansas businesses seeking to exploit low-cost immigrant workers.

"Huckabee is an open borders multi-culturalist who put the will and needs of Arkansas corporations before the needs of Arkansas citizens and taxpayers," McCutchen charged.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58430


Fiscal Policy Report Card on America's Governors: 2006

This report presents the findings of the Cato Institute's eighth biennial fiscal policy report card on the nation's governors. The report card's grading is based on 23 objective measures of fiscal performance. Governors who have cut taxes and spending the most receive the highest grades. Those who have increased spending and taxes the most receive the lowest grades.

Only one governor receives an A this year— Republican Matt Blunt of Missouri. The next two highest-scoring Republicans are Rick Perry of Texas and Mark Sanford of South Carolina. The highest-scoring Democratic governors are John Lynch of New Hampshire and Phil Bredesen of Tennessee.

Nine governors receive Fs. In alphabetical order, they are Kathleen Blanco of Louisiana, Michael Easley of North Carolina, Kenny Guinn of Nevada, Christine Gregoire of Washington, Mike Huckabee of Arkansas, Ruth Ann Minner of Delaware, Janet Napolitano of Arizona, Bob Riley of Alabama, and Brian Schweitzer of Montana.

Governors who received praise in previous editions of the report card but have lower grades this year include Arnold Schwarzenegger of California (current grade, D); Jeb Bush of Florida (current grade, C); Bill Owens of Colorado (current grade, D); George Pataki of New York (current grade, D); and Bill Richardson of New Mexico (current grade, C).

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6724



Twilight for Huck
Evidently without consulting legislators, his Cabinet, or anyone else who knows something of the law and state budgeting, Huckabee ordered that money appropriated by the legislature for other purposes be given instead to the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences. Under the governor’s plan, the money would have been used for cancer research and the endowment of a faculty position named for a UAMS physician who helped Huckabee lose a considerable amount of weight. The proposed naming was an inordinate show of admiration for the physician. Under Huckabee, things usually got named for him or his wife.

Legislators questioned the legality of Huckabee’s proposal and even Alan Sugg, president of the University of Arkansas System, suggested that it might be best to obtain legislative approval in the session that was only a few days away. Huckabee threw a fit, rescinded the transfer of money to UAMS, ordered that the funds be used for other, non-medical purposes, and assailed Sugg for exercising good judgment. In a letter to the UA president, Huckabee said the money would have been used for “noble and worthy projects” and saved many lives. “But your reluctance to accept these funds due to a small number of legislative detractors makes it necessary to take this action.”

Why necessary, one asks. Are lives any less worth saving if it’s done legally? State Sen. Jim Argue said of Huckabee’s behavior, “It’s a shame the governor ends on this angry, punitive note.”

Shortly after the fund-transfer incident, it was learned that before leaving office, Huckabee had used up the governor’s emergency fund, in part to destroy computer hard drives in the governor’s office. That left the new governor, Mike Beebe, with no emergency money for the last six months of the fiscal year. It left everyone else with questions about the destruction of state property, and whatever was on those hard drives that Huckabee was so desperate to conceal. The emergency fund is used in cases of disaster, tornadoes and the like. The governor’s concern for saving lives had subsided, apparently, or at least been given a lower priority than concealing information from the public. Maybe Huckabee had learned from Richard Nixon, who neglected to destroy the evidence and paid a price.

http://www.arktimes.com/Articles/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=8878cfb7-7da4-4f60-b56d-57f50271c7d8


Web special: Dumond case revisited: A reminder of Huckabee's role in his freedom

“I signed the [parole] papers because the governor wanted Dumond paroled. I was thinking the governor was working for the best interests of the state.”
—Ermer Pondexter, ex-member of the board of pardons and paroles

New sources, including an advisor to Gov. Mike Huckabee, have told the Arkansas Times that Huckabee and a senior member of his staff exerted behind-the-scenes influence to bring about the parole of rapist Wayne Dumond, who Missouri authorities say raped and killed a woman there shortly after his parole.

http://www.arktimes.com/Articles/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=154e1aad-fd18-4efd-8d80-b5dab8559419