Police Shooting - Graphic

[Mach]

I have to say, I'm usually on the other side saying that the cops used way too much force, this time I have to say, that cop should have laid that dude out, he was crazy, that cop gave him way too many chances.

Graphic in Nature

January 12, 1998

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=969_1263249923


Deputy Kyle Dinkheller, Laurens County, GA, was minutes from being off duty when he encountered a speeding pickup truck going 98 mph. The deputy was an ICE (Interstate Criminal Enforcement) officer that dealt with traffic infractions, speeding and the occasional drug bust. This was a low risk or unknown risk stop for speeding. He radioed in the speeding infraction, made a U-turn in the median and pursued the vehicle. The driver, Andrew Brannan, stopped his vehicle, exited and started a crazy, dancing jig in the middle of the road while swearing at the officer and shouting ‘I’m a god-damned Vietnam vet.” At first, he ignored Dinkheller’s commands to step towards the deputy, which always began with `Sir’. When he finally complied, he attacked the deputy and a scuffle ensued. The deputy implemented the use of his asp and ordered Brannan to `get back’. This procedure was repeated, but after what appeared to be a second scuffle, the suspect returned to his vehicle and retrieved a M-I Carbine from under the seat. The first shots were fired nearly 50 seconds after Brannan returned to his vehicle despite the deputy’s commands. Brannan ignored the repeated commands to put the gun down and Deputy Dinkheller apparently fired the first shot. Brannan, a Vietnam veteran, advanced firing on the deputy. Dinkheller returned fire, but succeeded only in breaking a window in the driver’s side of the pickup and wounding Brannan in the stomach. Using `suppressive fire’, Brannan systematically, methodically shot Dinkheller in the arms, legs, exposed areas that would not be covered had Dinkheller been wearing a bulletproof vest, slowly executing him. Reloading his weapon Brannan continued firing with the final death shot to Dinkheller’s right eye. "The entire incident was videotaped by a camera in Deputy Dinkheller's patrol car. On January 28, 2000, the suspect was found guilty of murder and was sentenced to death two days later."

[newyearsrevolution08]

That guy knew how to approach that vehicle and fuck shit up. Ex military, many cops themselves are as well however SO those crazies ARE on both sides of those fire fights.

I don't like hearing those "death screams" which only happen when you are well shit, thinking you are going to die. What a scary situation to say the least but yes he gave him WAYYYYY to much leash. If anything, when the guy went to his car and seemed to fiddle with shit FOREVER, move your vehicle back to a defensive position UNTIL backup arrives. He seemed combative from the get go SO I think the cop should have taking more defensive measures.

I feel bad for his fam, this is an old story BUT a great video. Not saying that a video showing or allowing you to listen to a man die is a good thing BUT it makes you realize what humans are capable of.

[S.Shorland]

The policeman was too nice.As soon as he picked up a gun,especially after acting like that,I'd have shot him.He was a brave and humane man and unfortunately in this case,that didn't pay.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

When did the federal political subdivision get police powers?


ICE (Interstate Criminal Enforcement) officer that dealt with traffic infractions, speeding and the occasional drug bust

I am not going to feel empathetic to a government using force or coercion it should not be using.

[unitedusstand]

The Army officer had warned the police officer by charging at him and saying he is "Vietnam veteran". So police should have backed off.

Usually police officers have a bad habit of pointing Guns at strangers. Some people get angry with this.

I think the army officer must have said "you have a gun. I have a better gun with me". He got angry and the Gun fight started resulting in the death of police officer. Army people are aggressive because they trained to fight and they have seen death in war zones.

Look at the way the army officer charges at the police during the gun fight. This how army kills its enemy in wars.

I would say the police officer is responsible for his own death. So the army officer should be released from the prison.

[AGRP]

This is an old story.

From what I remember, the officer got in trouble for being too offensive and thus he was so apprehensive in this case. This is what you get when cops assume the role of tyrants and not what they were sworn to be: Protectors of liberty.

[jonhowe]

I would say the police officer is responsible for his own death. So the army officer should be released from the prison.

Are you joking? Someone please confirm this is a troll account.

[flightlesskiwi]

On January 28, 2000, the suspect was found guilty of murder and was sentenced to death two days later."

i get it. police officer murders unarmed mundane and gets the minimum 2 year sentence. (possibly mentally incapacitated) armed mundane shoots armed police officer and gets the death penalty.

i love the US of A.

[jonhowe]

i get it. police officer murders unarmed mundane and gets the minimum 2 year sentence. (possibly mentally incapacitated) armed mundane shoots armed police officer and gets the death penalty.

i love the US of A.

A fallacious argument, if you're trying to say the murderer in this video should have gotten a lesser sentence.

However, if you're implying the COP that committed murder and got two years (and only served 11 months, remember) deserved a GREAT deal more, than we agree. Death penalty? I wouldn't say so, but certainly a decade or two.

[Stary Hickory]

Really horrible video, cops are human beings they have families that depend on him. Definitely he should have been more aggressive and not let the suspect to get back in the car.

[Tonewah]

This is a terrible story, and I truly feel for the loved ones and family of this officer... but it doesn't reflect the most common reality.

The fact is that Police misconduct results in over 3 times more deaths of innocent people than police.

US Department of Justice statistics (http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/ardus05.pdf) reported an average of 667 people were killed per year in arrest related incidents from 2003-2005. 365 of them per year were ruled homicides. That's one person murdered a day by police.

In contrast, 69 officers died last year from firearm related incidents or assaults. More officers were killed in non-assault traffic accidents, by heart attacks or other random accidents. The number of officers total that died in the line of duty, or from injuries sustained in the line of duty, is 160, and that number includes officers who were injured almost 2 decades earlier.

Videos of the extremely rare incidents like this are shown to police in their training. It's given as an example of what will happen if you're not always thinking of the average person as a criminal. It makes people who might be good officers want to quit, and makes the ones who would be bad officers want to kill.

I come from a police family. 3 family members were on our local police department. I have heard them complain about fellow officers who go too far. I'm not anti-police, I just think there needs to be something done to police the police.

*Police fatality statistics from National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund
**Police misconduct statistics from the National Police Misconduct Statistics Reporting Project

[liberty2897]

I come from a police family. 3 family members were on our local police department. I have heard them complain about fellow officers who go too far. I'm not anti-police, I just think there needs to be something done to police the police.


Tonewah, thanks for that post. I feel the same way, but I hope policing the police doesn't mean we need to waste more tax dollars on the police state. What I would like to see is something like a mandatory double-the-max-sentence for cops who are convicted of crimes. I would also like to see a reduced number of cops. They seem to travel in packs of 5 or 6 these days. That puts a lot of pressure on an individual cop not to snitch on his buddies.

[LibertyMage]

Jesus Christ...

"Police Shooting - Graphic" should be replaced with "Police Shooting - Could Leave You Mentally Disturbed"

[newyearsrevolution08]

I agree with the stiffer punishments for sure. Another thing is they should HAVE TO go into general population as should ANY inmate. If their Karma is so bad that if they set foot in gen pop they will die then THEIR KARMA is coming back hard for everything they did in their life now isn't it.

If a cop kills, he should be held to a higher standard for sure just like military as well as anyone "trained" or needing to "register their hands". Who knows though that "public servant" thing really does it for many people as though they shouldn't be punished as bad because hell they were servants for us after all.

I don't like cops, never have and if someone breaks in my house I WILL DEAL WITH IT. Cops should be there for elderly and lost kids and should WALK THE BEAT and be a friend to the people and not "patroling" in swat gear and assault rifles.

[LibertyEagle]

The policeman was too nice.As soon as he picked up a gun,especially after acting like that,I'd have shot him.He was a brave and humane man and unfortunately in this case,that didn't pay.

That was so sad. :(

[Verrater]

A fallacious argument, if you're trying to say the murderer in this video should have gotten a lesser sentence.

However, if you're implying the COP that committed murder and got two years (and only served 11 months, remember) deserved a GREAT deal more, than we agree. Death penalty? I wouldn't say so, but certainly a decade or two.


They should get the same sentence, regardless of what it is.

[flightlesskiwi]

A fallacious argument, if you're trying to say the murderer in this video should have gotten a lesser sentence.

However, if you're implying the COP that committed murder and got two years (and only served 11 months, remember) deserved a GREAT deal more, than we agree. Death penalty? I wouldn't say so, but certainly a decade or two.

i was implying that the judicial system is skewed to favor law enforcement. the citizen who murdered the cop is no less innocent than the cop who murdered the unarmed citizen, but the judicial system would have one believe otherwise.

[AFPVet]

This was showed to my department training class and may be one of the reasons for this new 'circular force' continuum which they have today.

[Brian4Liberty]

This was showed to my department training class and may be one of the reasons for this new 'circular force' continuum which they have today.

It's a shame that one crazy guy sets the standard for how all civilians are treated. Collectivism at it's worse.

Police abuse in no way offsets the actions of this murderer. Death penalty or life in prison with no parole, whichever is cheaper.

[Pericles]

It's a shame that one crazy guy sets the standard for how all civilians are treated. Collectivism at it's worse.

Police abuse in no way offsets the actions of this murderer. Death penalty or life in prison with no parole, whichever is cheaper.

It is all about learning the right lesson from an incident. The lesson here should have been - at what point did the situation escalate to the use of deadly force, rather than all "civilians" are deadly threats. At Verdun, the French learned the lesson of how a strong fort can hold out against attacks, while the Germans learned the lesson of the cost of getting trapped into positional warfare, and developed the armored division.

[S.Shorland]

Well that explains it then.Very sad indeed.As soon as I saw him pick up the gun,I'd start shooting

This is an old story.

From what I remember, the officer got in trouble for being too offensive and thus he was so apprehensive in this case. This is what you get when cops assume the role of tyrants and not what they were sworn to be: Protectors of liberty.

[ClayTrainor]

That was nightmarish to listen to. Very scary footage.

[AGRP]

Well that explains it then.Very sad indeed.As soon as I saw him pick up the gun,I'd start shooting

Its horrible what happened to him, but its really a symptom of what they do.

They trample on our liberties virtually without any accountability. Then when they do get in serious trouble (threat of being fired) they behave sheepishly like this officer did when he really needed to protect himself.

Sad.

[bkreigh]

Some of these comments are ridiculous.

What evidence do any of you have that this particular cop has trampled on any liberties.

Some of you have so much hate for cops you cant see straight.

I love the use of "they" as well. Like ALL cops act the same way. Using that logic then i guess all Ron Paul supports are assholes because i am one. Some of you fucks are something else.

[BUSHLIED]

Seems to me that this police officer was inexperienced...

1. The person got out of the car almost immediately, re-flag #1
2. He was obviously belligerant re-flag #2
3. Said he was Vietnam Vet. red flag#3
4. Was unafriad of the officer pointing his gun at him. Redflag #4
5. Clearly was looking for something in the truck (i.e M1 rifle). Red Flag #5
6. The cop never radio-ed for back-up when the driver didn't comply on the first few requests.
7. Should have retreated when the rifle was drawn.
8. Where is the police shotgun?

Sadly, he was clearly out-matched by the Vet who was clearly willing to take a hit as he approached with suppressing fire...

That said, the "vet" committed murder and should be put to death...

[bkreigh]

The Army officer had warned the police officer by charging at him and saying he is "Vietnam veteran". So police should have backed off.

Usually police officers have a bad habit of pointing Guns at strangers. Some people get angry with this.

I think the army officer must have said "you have a gun. I have a better gun with me". He got angry and the Gun fight started resulting in the death of police officer. Army people are aggressive because they trained to fight and they have seen death in war zones.

Look at the way the army officer charges at the police during the gun fight. This how army kills its enemy in wars.

I would say the police officer is responsible for his own death. So the army officer should be released from the prison.

Are you freakin serious? So i guess any military person can go around shooting whomever up because they are badasses or something? Just because you are a Vet doesnt give you a fucking pass to kill people.

[bkreigh]

Seems to me that this police officer was inexperienced...

1. The person got out of the car almost immediately, re-flag #1
2. He was obviously belligerant re-flag #2
3. Said he was Vietnam Vet. red flag#3
4. Was unafriad of the officer pointing his gun at him. Redflag #4
5. Clearly was looking for something in the truck (i.e M1 rifle). Red Flag #5
6. The cop never radio-ed for back-up when the driver didn't comply on the first few requests.
7. Should have retreated when the rifle was drawn.
8. Where is the police shotgun?

Sadly, he was clearly out-matched by the Vet who was clearly willing to take a hit as he approached with suppressing fire...

That said, the "vet" committed murder and should be put to death...

Agreed 100%.

[Rothbardian Girl]

Some of these comments are ridiculous.

What evidence do any of you have that this particular cop has trampled on any liberties.

Some of you have so much hate for cops you cant see straight.

I love the use of "they" as well. Like ALL cops act the same way. Using that logic then i guess all Ron Paul supports are assholes because i am one. Some of you fucks are something else.

I have to agree with this. Some of you guys are being wayyy too collectivist in your arguments on this thread. That being said, the video was extremely heartbreaking, and I wish there was some just way of punishing this guy, because I oppose the death penalty on principle.

[AGRP]

Some of these comments are ridiculous.

What evidence do any of you have that this particular cop has trampled on any liberties.

Some of you have so much hate for cops you cant see straight.

I love the use of "they" as well. Like ALL cops act the same way. Using that logic then i guess all Ron Paul supports are assholes because i am one. Some of you fucks are something else.

From what I remember, the officer in question was reprimanded for his past actions and was on the verge of losing his job if he continued to act the way he did. If cops werent continually allowed to blindly/needlessly trample on our liberties, then they wouldn't be put into the scenario (threat of job loss) that this officer was in. He wouldnt have been so afraid to defend himself when he really needed to.

[AFPVet]

When we discussed this situation in training, we concluded that he froze up. He was one of those people who couldn't make the judgement to shoot when it counted. You have to be able to make a split second decision to shoot or not to shoot. One mistake can mean prison or lawsuit—while the other means you go home in a bag.

[Rothbardian Girl]

From what I remember, the officer in question was reprimanded for his past actions and was on the verge of losing his job if he continued to act the way he did. If cops werent continually allowed to blindly/needlessly trample on our liberties, then they wouldn't be put into the scenario (threat of job loss) that this officer was in. He wouldnt have been so afraid to defend himself when he really needed to.

I would agree with you if the actions of the police officer would have been questionable in the situation that led to his death. I'm really not understanding how the officer (in this situation) trampled on the suspect's liberties - clearly, driving at 98 mph on a highway is reckless behavior and the suspect should have been apprehended for that. I don't think any questionable actions on the officer's part in the past should serve as rationale for his murder.

Of course, we're not getting the whole story here. Maybe the officer was aggressive in this situation (which still doesn't mean he deserved in any way to get gunned down like that). However, from the video, I don't see any evidence of that whatsoever.

[BUSHLIED]

From what I remember, the officer in question was reprimanded for his past actions and was on the verge of losing his job if he continued to act the way he did. If cops werent continually allowed to blindly/needlessly trample on our liberties, then they wouldn't be put into the scenario (threat of job loss) that this officer was in. He wouldnt have been so afraid to defend himself when he really needed to.

Initially I was unaware of the back-story to this altercation. One then can understand the reluctance of the officer to handle the situation more appropriately, offensively. That being said, the "Vet" drew a gun and regardless the police officer had the right to defend himself in that situation. You would think that self-preservation would kick in instead he kept shouting at the guy. Either the cop runs away and or immediately opens fire. Looked like the officer took a defensive posture behind the car while engaging in a fire fight, without scoring a lucky shot, he was doomed. From a quick search, the M1 appears to hold 30 rounds of ammo and I assume the cop had a .9mm which holds about 17 rounds of ammo. I hope we can all learn something from this...

[Freedom 4 all]

Hmm, well that's the other end of the extreme. I would have shot him as soon as he reached for his gun. Although it wouldn't have come to that as I would have wrestled him to the ground and handcuffed him as soon as it was clear he had some severe mental problems and required help. However, cops shouldn't use videos like this to excuse their brutality. There is a happy medium between way too much force (most times) and not nearly enough (this time).

[bkreigh]

From what I remember, the officer in question was reprimanded for his past actions and was on the verge of losing his job if he continued to act the way he did. If cops werent continually allowed to blindly/needlessly trample on our liberties, then they wouldn't be put into the scenario (threat of job loss) that this officer was in. He wouldnt have been so afraid to defend himself when he really needed to.

Id like evidence of that. I dont remember anything about this and you "remembering correctly" doesnt hold to much water either. Either way it doesnt mean he should pay with his life. Finally, if he was under investigation then his supervisors were questioning his job performance then they should have taken him of the beat.

[Brian4Liberty]

When we discussed this situation in training, we concluded that he froze up. He was one of those people who couldn't make the judgement to shoot when it counted. You have to be able to make a split second decision to shoot or not to shoot. One mistake can mean prison, while the other means you go home in a bag.

He also seemed to be intimidated by the guy.

If you (the officer) have a handgun and they reach in the car, you are likely to be outgunned very soon. It seems like you would have either of two choices: stay on top of him, or jump in the car and back way off. The officer took an option of backing up, putting him out of accurate pistol range, yet leaving himself open to the rifle. Maybe that is part of freezing up.

[AFPVet]

When the subject was walking back and disregarding orders, that was the appropriate time to use a taser.

[bkreigh]

When the subject was walking back and disregarding orders, that was the appropriate time to use a taser.

It was appropriate when the guy charged at the office after doing his little jig.

This was in 98 so who knows if they had them back then.

[AGRP]

I'm really not understanding how the officer (in this situation) trampled on the suspect's liberties - clearly, driving at 98 mph on a highway is reckless behavior and the suspect should have been apprehended for that. I don't think any questionable actions on the officer's part in the past should serve as rationale for his murder.



From the statistical standpoint, officers needlessly approach (and escalate) peaceful and harmless situations.


One way or another if you play with fire enough, you will get burned.

[AFPVet]

It was appropriate when the guy charged at the office after doing his little jig.

This was in 98 so who knows if they had them back then.

Oh yeah I forgot about that... yep. Heck I carried pepper instead of a taser, but that stuff put you into a hurt even if it just got on your skin. I carried Sabre with mil grade CS... great stuff. I was only a civi cop for a year 2006-07 and I remember they had tasers several years before that.

[AGRP]

Id like evidence of that. I dont remember anything about this and you "remembering correctly" doesnt hold to much water either. Either way it doesnt mean he should pay with his life. Finally, if he was under investigation then his supervisors were questioning his job performance then they should have taken him of the beat.



Where did i say he should pay with his life?

The explanation I am giving probably would have saved his life.

[bkreigh]

Oh yeah I forgot about that... yep. Heck I carried pepper instead of a taser, but that stuff put you into a hurt even if it just got on your skin. I carried Sabre with mil grade CS... great stuff. I was only a civi cop for a year 2006-07 and I remember they had tasers several years before that.

Pepper Spray would have helped him i would think. Ive never been sprayed with the stuff so i dont know if adrenaline helps ease the pain but i doubt that Vet could have shot as well as he did.

[bkreigh]

Where did i say he should pay with his life?

The explanation I am giving probably would have saved his life.

Yeah sorry bout that i didnt mean you specifically. I posted that in conjunction with another post on the 1st page that said the officer is responsible for his own death and the vet should be set free. That kind of pissed me off a bit.

[heavenlyboy34]

Some of these comments are ridiculous.

What evidence do any of you have that this particular cop has trampled on any liberties.

Some of you have so much hate for cops you cant see straight.

I love the use of "they" as well. Like ALL cops act the same way. Using that logic then i guess all Ron Paul supports are assholes because i am one. Some of you fucks are something else.
Unlike RP supporters, cops are a collective by their nature. They have varying degrees of integrity and brutality and so on, but they are all part of a large tyrannical organization (gang) called "police".

Let's Finally Dispense With 'Hero' Nonsense (http://lewrockwell.com/greenhut/greenhut65.1.html)

[Brian4Liberty]

Pepper Spray would have helped him i would think. Ive never been sprayed with the stuff so i dont know if adrenaline helps ease the pain but i doubt that Vet could have shot as well as he did.

You can still shoot after being pepper sprayed. "Don't be beetch!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8IGDIujijQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8IGDIujijQ

(Or maybe not...) ;)

[heavenlyboy34]

You can still shoot after being pepper sprayed. "Don't be beetch!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8IGDIujijQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8IGDIujijQ

(Or maybe not...) ;)

LOL!!! That's a classic episode ^^ :D

[newbitech]

the other side of the coin. i am sorry for this man and his family. I wish that his job did not involve bothering people who aren't bothering anyone else. Maybe he gave his life so that someone else could live.

I have to think that many cops have seen this video and many of them probably feel like everyone they pull over is a PTSD vietnam vet with a gun in their car. Sad Sad Sad.

[bkreigh]

You can still shoot after being pepper sprayed. "Don't be beetch!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8IGDIujijQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8IGDIujijQ

(Or maybe not...) ;)

Great video! i have a buddy a work that is from Russia and i shot him this video a while ago. I completely forgot about it though.

[AFPVet]

LOL... "... that was a bad idea... pepper spray is some bad sheit." LMAO.

When choosing pepper, you want something with the most SHU... not capsicum percentage. The percentage just means duration. The SHU is how hard it hits.

[Golding]

Seen this video before, and it only highlights the discrepancy between cops and the people they harass. The vet was sentenced to death after a speedy trial for shooting a policeman on video. Mehserle shoots Oscar Grant on video and is released from prison after 1 year. It's not saying that the vet should have had a 1 year sentence, but rather that Mehserle obviously was tried as a police officer and received a more favorable outcome for it. That's not justice.

It also strikes me that this video, filmed in 1998, continues to be shown in police training across the country. It seems that trainees are taught well enough early on that the "mundanes" are their enemies, which explains the itchy trigger finger we so commonly read about here.

I'm not supportive of what the vet did, but I'm also not going to suddenly be sympathetic for cops who abuse individuals on a daily basis simply because an officer was filmed being shot over a decade ago.

[iGGz]

That made my eyes hurt

[AFPVet]

Seen this video before, and it only highlights the discrepancy between cops and the people they harass. The vet was sentenced to death after a speedy trial for shooting a policeman on video. Mehserle shoots Oscar Grant on video and is released from prison after 1 year. It's not saying that the vet should have had a 1 year sentence, but rather that Mehserle obviously was tried as a police officer and received a more favorable outcome for it. That's not justice.

It also strikes me that this video, filmed in 1998, continues to be shown in police training across the country. It seems that trainees are taught well enough early on that the "mundanes" are their enemies, which explains the itchy trigger finger we so commonly read about here.

I'm not supportive of what the vet did, but I'm also not going to suddenly be sympathetic for cops who abuse individuals on a daily basis simply because an officer was filmed being shot over a decade ago.

You're right... this was the first video they showed us in civilian police training. Conversely, we received better training in the Air Force police academy lol. We were one of the first to use the FATS simulators... great training tool!

It's also true that there is a "us versus them" mentality. Couple the distrust of "civilians" (even though police are civilians too... unless we are talking military police) with the roids that a lot of these guys are on and you get a dangerous mix.

[Brian4Liberty]

Seen this video before, and it only highlights the discrepancy between cops and the people they harass. The vet was sentenced to death after a speedy trial for shooting a policeman on video. Mehserle shoots Oscar Grant on video and is released from prison after 1 year. It's not saying that the vet should have had a 1 year sentence, but rather that Mehserle obviously was tried as a police officer and received a more favorable outcome for it. That's not justice.


Completely different situations. Mehserle was tried for having an "accident" (using real gun instead of stun gun). You may not believe that it was an accident, but only a mind-reader would know for absolute certainty. Can anyone prove that it was not accident? What do you get charged for if you hit a pedestrian with your car? Did you do it on purpose? Can anyone prove that you did it on purpose? Is there a motive or any proof that you did it on purpose?

The case in this thread was not an accident. The penalty should be the same if this crazy guy had killed a mundane, your mother or a cop.

[Golding]

Completely different situations. Mehserle was tried for having an "accident" (using real gun instead of stun gun). You may not believe that it was an accident, but only a mind-reader would know for absolute certainty. Can anyone prove that it was not accident? What do you get charged for if you hit a pedestrian with your car? Did you do it on purpose? Can anyone prove that you did it on purpose? Is there a motive or any proof that you did it on purpose?

The case in this thread was not an accident. The penalty should be the same if this crazy guy had killed a mundane, your mother or a cop.I don't understand how anyone could actually believe the harebrained excuse that he was "going for his taser". The suggestion is blown away by the simple question of why Mehserle even felt going for a taser was necessary for a man who was handcuffed and faced down. So if he didn't murder Oscar, did he simply intend to torture him?

I agree with you that the penalty should be the same if a crazy guy kills a mundane, your mother, or a cop. I'm suggesting, however, that it should also be the same even if the crazy guy happens to be a cop. Unfortunately, that's simply not what we see in this country. Mehserle received more punishment than we often see for officers who murder civilians. It's a sad situation, and this video doesn't do much to take away from that reality.

[Golding]

You're right... this was the first video they showed us in civilian police training. Conversely, we received better training in the Air Force police academy lol. We were one of the first to use the FATS simulators... great training tool!

It's also true that there is a "us versus them" mentality. Couple the distrust of "civilians" (even though police are civilians too... unless we are talking military police) with the roids that a lot of these guys are on and you get a dangerous mix.Agreed. And in addition I feel that the "us versus them" mentality leads to an imbalance as (it seems) that the majority of people feel a trusting relationship with the police. That's why you see some of the more pitiable outcomes in some of Anti Federalist's threads, like the individual who cries out "Why are you shooting me?" as his home is raided.

It's not anything I have against cops collectively, but rather the several who use their position to act aggressively against people on their own, the several who act aggressively against people with the passive reasoning of "I'm just doing my job", and the several who defend the aggression. Between those, there are too few exceptional police that I personally feel that I could trust. And that's unfortunate given the noble role the public idealizes officers to play.

[Yieu]

Are you joking? Someone please confirm this is a troll account.

Confirmed as a troll, the poster in post #5 on page 1 with the username "unitedusstand" (who was banned quickly) is a persistent, bigoted, hateful troll with the previous username of Fire11.

Do not get bothered by what he said, he's very clearly insane and has a lot of unjustified hate for multiple groups of people, and even wants to kill 1-2 billion people.

What he said does not represent the views of anyone else on this forum.