$12.50 asking too much

[DjLoTi]

Ya know, I really don't need or care about money at all. But if I was going to spend 5-6 hours a day handing out Ron Paul stuff and fliers, for 4 days at electric forest and for 3 days at camp bisco, that's like 35-40 hours.

So lets say I grind it hard for 40 hours at ef and cb. If I raised $500, that's only 12.50 and hour. And that's before printing costs.

You can be sure I won't be working for the grassroots this go around. Honestly, I'm quite distasted with the reaction. That's all I would like to say

[1836]

Ya know, I really don't need or care about money at all. But if I was going to spend 5-6 hours a day handing out Ron Paul stuff and fliers, for 4 days at electric forest and for 3 days at camp bisco, that's like 35-40 hours.

So lets say I grind it hard for 40 hours at ef and cb. If I raised $500, that's only 12.50 and hour. And that's before printing costs.

You can be sure I won't be working for the grassroots this go around. Honestly, I'm quite distasted with the reaction. That's all I would like to say

DjLoTi,

As a longtime lurker here I am familiar with your posts and some of your ideas. From what I have observed personally, I can honestly say that you bring a great deal of creativity and energy to the table as a Ron Paul supporter and someone involved in the freedom movement generally.

You should consider that the reaction to your post asking for money to go and spread the message at a concert was not meant in a mean-spirited way, but more as a surprising kind of reaction to the idea that anyone should be paid for travel and board to a non-political event. One person at an enormous concert cannot tell everyone about Ron Paul.

I am, however, a bit troubled by the idea that you should characterize $500 as "only 12.50 an hour" in some attempt to justify that you should be compensated for the time you spend volunteering. For the many who spend countless hours volunteering in the freedom movement, yourself included, this is indeed an odd idea. I do not think this is what you meant. But realize what you said!

Thanks and speaking just for me, I hope you stick around.

[DjLoTi]

I also have a friend who was going to do it with me, and we were really going to make sure everyone got a flier

and as for "I am, however, a bit troubled by the idea that you should characterize $500 as "only 12.50 an hour" in some attempt to justify that you should be compensated for the time you spend volunteering."

It isn't what I meant. I was just putting into context. I feel like people are really taking it too far

[Maximus]

The best way to do this is to set a plan and itemize your material costs.

People aren't going to pay for you to go and check out concerts that you'd see either way. Get receipts from kinkos and I'm sure people will pitch in for flyers and stuff.

[evilfunnystuff]

Why not show Us an itemized list of the $500 maybe it will clear up the confusion?

[Cowlesy]

I dunno man, I just feel like sending $500 to the campaign so Steve Bierfeldt can enhance his reach of already identified voters in a key battleground state is a more efficient use of $500.00, especially in these tough economic times.

[DjLoTi]

Why not show Us an itemized list of the $500 maybe it will clear up the confusion?

Seems as though there's simply no support anyway. I could list the plane ticket, printing, gas to get to the fest, other expenses, plus my time at the fest, which would be well above $500. I might think about doing that, but right now I am really discouraged by the attitude here and am frankly insulted by some of the insinuations

[Nate-ForLiberty]

I think maybe a lot of people saw how much money was raised last time and figure that if their particular project is Ron Paul oriented, then it should be fairly easy to raise money. The fact is, there were quite a few projects last go around that cost a bit of money but didn't go anywhere. I think people are more focused on getting votes this go around.

But that's just me.

[DjLoTi]

Sorry, but I think my time is valuable. If the Ron Paul campaign is going to raise millions of dollars, then those people who work for them can do the work. I know people on the RP staff. They're going to the Iowa fest. They might not be as effective as me, but they'll be paid. I'm not going to spend my fest promoting RP without some kind of support. I'm pretty much done with the whole topic, and honestly my activism as a whole. I'm not going to hold a sign on a highway. That's not how I am. I'm not going to spend tons of money and time reaching tons of people about Ron Paul and not get some kind of support for it. $500 was my goal but anything would have helped. Instead I was insulted and made fun of. It's ok, I see the exit.. I'm on my way out

[owlbug]

Seems as though there's simply no support anyway. I could list the plane ticket, printing, gas to get to the fest, other expenses, plus my time at the fest, which would be well above $500. I might think about doing that, but right now I am really discouraged by the attitude here and am frankly insulted by some of the insinuations


Honestly, if you're not going to do your utmost to get Ron Paul elected because people aren't giving you money to hand out fliers at some concerts, I have to question your motivation.

[Cowlesy]

When is the concert? I bet if you hustled you could earn the $500 doing odd-jobs to get to the concert to support. I know people in my old neighborhood gladly paid for someone to weed gardens, mow lawns, power-wash driveways/sidewalks. When I wasn't bussing tables and setting up weddings/banquets, that's how I banked my residual income to go to concerts (just didn't have anything to promote then in terms of a candidate but I would have pushed Ron Paul had I went/he ran back in the day).

[evilfunnystuff]

Sorry, but I think my time is valuable. If the Ron Paul campaign is going to raise millions of dollars, then those people who work for them can do the work. I know people on the RP staff. They're going to the Iowa fest. They might not be as effective as me, but they'll be paid. I'm not going to spend my fest promoting RP without some kind of support. I'm pretty much done with the whole topic, and honestly my activism as a whole. I'm not going to hold a sign on a highway. That's not how I am. I'm not going to spend tons of money and time reaching tons of people about Ron Paul and not get some kind of support for it. $500 was my goal but anything would have helped. Instead I was insulted and made fun of. It's ok, I see the exit.. I'm on my way out

I would but im not gonna waste my money and time donating tons of money to some guy to pass out flyers for Ron Paul and not get some kind of support for it. lol

[DjLoTi]

Man, no offense but I did that last election and totally got crapped on. And really, the only 'required' funds I was looking for was for printing. But people took it way too far. Now I'm just totally done with it. I mean, I started the radio, I'm in the movie, I'm active in some big Ron Paul circles... but really obviously none of that matters. If people don't find value in the idea, they don't have to contribute. I did, but really yeah I'm just done talking about it. If anything, I know some of the main promoters for the big up festival in NY, and all this whole ordeal really did was ensure that I should not pursue the other idea I had, which was throw a music festival/voter registration party in NH, with a super legit line-up... I could actually make that happen probably, but it would take a seriousness I would not likely find on these forums... so It's alll good.....

[DjLoTi]

When is the concert? I bet if you hustled you could earn the $500 doing odd-jobs to get to the concert to support. I know people in my old neighborhood gladly paid for someone to weed gardens, mow lawns, power-wash driveways/sidewalks. When I wasn't bussing tables and setting up weddings/banquets, that's how I banked my residual income to go to concerts (just didn't have anything to promote then in terms of a candidate but I would have pushed Ron Paul had I went/he ran back in the day).

I don't need the money. I was just looking for support. There is none. End of story

[owlbug]

You presented your idea, nobody bought into it, therefore the forums suck. Look in the mirror.

[DjLoTi]

Uh, no. The forums suck because they were insulting and childish. However, some of the offensive posts have been deleted, so maybe you missed that part.

[LibertyEagle]

You can be sure I won't be working for the grassroots this go around. Honestly, I'm quite distasted with the reaction. That's all I would like to say

I'm confused. I thought we were all working to get Ron Paul elected.

[LibertyEagle]

Man, no offense but I did that last election and totally got crapped on. And really, the only 'required' funds I was looking for was for printing. But people took it way too far. Now I'm just totally done with it. I mean, I started the radio, I'm in the movie, I'm active in some big Ron Paul circles... but really obviously none of that matters. If people don't find value in the idea, they don't have to contribute. I did, but really yeah I'm just done talking about it. If anything, I know some of the main promoters for the big up festival in NY, and all this whole ordeal really did was ensure that I should not pursue the other idea I had, which was throw a music festival/voter registration party in NH, with a super legit line-up... I could actually make that happen probably, but it would take a seriousness I would not likely find on these forums... so It's alll good.....

Oh c'mon. If I let what a few people said to me or about me run me off, well, I probably would have been gone the first day I logged onto these forums. heh.

Don't let a few people get you down. We all have to be in this thing pushing for Ron Paul. If you have a good idea, then do it.

[DjLoTi]

There are 2 levels I can go - super pro, or my own way. Super pro means I talk to all these people and hand these out to everybody. And it's going to be tiring and take up a lot of my time. I also have a life that I live, and have needs as a person, so there's that aspect as well. I'm not just a Ron Paul robot that runs on nothing.

[LibertyEagle]

There are 2 levels I can go - super pro, or my own way. Super pro means I talk to all these people and hand these out to everybody. And it's going to be tiring and take up a lot of my time. I also have a life that I live, and have needs as a person, so there's that aspect as well. I'm not just a Ron Paul robot that runs on nothing.

I don't know what to tell you, besides do what you can. Nobody has as much money this time around and a ton of people don't even have jobs, DJ. Anything you can do to help will be great.

The only people that I know of that are being paid are with the campaign.

[DjLoTi]

Well I wanted to design fliers with taking points specifically for the fest, but yeah it's gonna take time and money and everyone is really discouraging.. maybe in a day or 2 I will lighten up... but yeah obviously I should have kept this idea to myself and not asked for any help lol... wow talk about rude.

[Pheonix]

Let me break this down:
Person A asks for funding for Project X, meant to help candidate Y
Group B, who are supporters of candidate Y, don't fund Project X
Person A gets disheartened and refuses to support candidate Y

Even from an objective stand-point it doesn't make sense why you're taking away your grassroots support for Ron Paul because people didn't fall in love with your plan. I've worked with a plethora of organizations/boards in my short time on this Earth, and I can tell you that rather than walk away from ronpaulforums, you should try to learn from this experience. This is an example of many of the inherent challenges that come with working in a group, something that you can learn to overcome and master if you decide to stay with the grassroots. If you decide on leaving, you may fail to gain these team-working skills and I fear you will run into a similar problem later on in life. I joined this movement 4 years ago when I was 13 and rather immature now that I think of it. I am glad I stayed with the grassroots though; I've matured and gained many life helping skills from the experience of working with this team and I know the same benefit will come to you and everyone else.

You need to learn that not every one of your ideas, no matter how zealous you may be in believing it is worthy of utmost support, will be taken in by the entire group. When a group overwhelmingly is against your proposal, this means one of three things: you are right and everyone is wrong, everyone is right and you are wrong (which normally is the case with collaborative work), or you failed to articulate your idea properly. I looked at your proposal. One of the reasons people feel your cause may not be worthy of the support is because they know their money isn't being spent entirely on the cause of Ron Paul. You will be going to these musical gatherings because these are fun events that interest you; this is what we perceive. Sure you may have the intention of spreading the message of Ron Paul, but people feel it's not as worthy a cause as funding the projects on the Iowa projects page, e.g. 1836 posted a rather comedic thread about buying an iPad for helping the Ron Paul cause. Believe it or not, from an objective standpoint, I see this as very similar to your proposal. You may have great intentions in going to this concert/gathering, but people still are skeptical that their money is being spent honestly and solely for Ron Paul, not for someone to have fun and also help Ron Paul.

I believe you may be clouded by your emotions right now. Sure it hurts when an idea is rejected by others, but don't let these make you irrational. All emotions and experiences of our world are ephemeral. They come into being for a short moment and then fade. Go to sleep tonight. Wake up tomorrow and try to reread these posts when you're free from the shackles of your feelings. Hopefully you will see things differently. Accept that even if you are hypothetically right and I and everyone else is wrong, your project isn't getting support. In which case you need to decide: are you going to stop helping Ron Paul because of his supporters?

Looking back at my breakup at the beginning of this post: In 2007 a candidate named Ron Paul (person A) ran for president with the goal of helping the United States as its president (Project X). Though he was right, everyone else (Group B) rejected his ideas. Rather than abandon on his country, he stayed and he's back again in 2011. Be like Ron Paul. Don't let the course of events put you down. Keep your chin up high and stay with the movement; we need people like you.

I appreciate your ardent support for Ron Paul and would encourage you to stay with ronpaulforums. We need your zeal and enthusiasm in this movement; we just need it to be more rationally placed. You may feel it'll be awkward helping out tomorrow given these criticisms of ours. However, know that our memories are short and that this group will take you in gladly should you decide to stay.

I hope these words will be taken positively.

[DjLoTi]

There is a difference between just not being supported and being insulted. Honestly we should just drop it and we can just be over it. I'll just do my own thing and keep it off the forums. Maybe I can get help with flier design.. who knows

[LibertyEagle]

Phoenix. If you were around during the last election, do you remember Ron Paul Radio? That was DJLoti's deal. His idea and his implementation. :)

[tsai3904]

Well I wanted to design fliers with taking points specifically for the fest, but yeah it's gonna take time and money and everyone is really discouraging.. maybe in a day or 2 I will lighten up... but yeah obviously I should have kept this idea to myself and not asked for any help lol... wow talk about rude.

The problem was with the way you presented the idea, not the idea itself. You didn't mention this in your original request for money. If you would have requested $100-$200 and explained it this way, I probably would have donated. By requesting $500, it made it seem like you wanted people to pay for your plane ticket, lodging, etc. for an event you're already attending. Next time you make a chip in, be as specific as possible.

[LibertyEagle]

I'm sure there is someone around here who can help you with your flier, DJ. :)

[libertybrewcity]

You can be sure I won't be working for the grassroots this go around. Honestly, I'm quite distasted with the reaction. That's all I would like to say


You won't be working for the grassroots because we won't give you 500 dollars? You definitely asked for whatever reaction was given to you.

[DjLoTi]

lol. I won't be 'working' for the grassroots because they obviously don't pay. If I just do it anyway, then I *am* the grassroots. Ironically, that is getting no support on rpfs from people like you

[king_nothing_]

Your level of support for RP shouldn't hinge on what a handful of people say to you in a forum thread. Think about what you're saying. If you feel insulted by someone, take it out on them if you so wish. Don't take it out on Ron.

[Pheonix]

Phoenix. If you were around during the last election, do you remember Ron Paul Radio? That was DJLoti's deal. His idea and his implementation. :)

My memory isn't the best; I didn't know he was the one who started the radio! There you go DjLoTi, another reason why we appreciate you and want you to stay on these forums. I saw your piece in the For Liberty movie; we need someone with your personality on the team.

DjLoTi: I read through your posts in this thread and have concluded, as you too have done, that your emotions have clouted your senses at the moment. You are acting very irrational: threatening to leave a cause because of sharp criticisms, being lost to delusions that everyone is disparaging you without warrant, saying that you had some "other" brilliant ideas that you're not going to share because you're now mad at everyone's behavior, etc.

My advice from my last post: Go to sleep. When you wake up I'm sure you'll be acting normally again. Everyone will forget this tantrum and hopefully everything will be back to normal.

Everyone else: quit fueling his emotions and let this thread die...

[DjLoTi]

I'm not really like 'leaving' leaving. Now that people are actually being nice and talking to me and not calling me rude things and insulting my intentions. Maybe we can brainstorm an idea to get a bunch of fliers into the hands of these festi-goers, but honestly I feel like my time and effort should be somewhat compensated. If it is or not can be up for debate, but I still have my opinion that it should be. Anyways, yeah I should probably call it a night. It's getting late, especially for me lol

[LibertyEagle]

lol. I won't be 'working' for the grassroots because they obviously don't pay. If I just do it anyway, then I *am* the grassroots. Ironically, that is getting no support on rpfs from people like you

WHAT? You expected us to pay you to support Ron Paul? WHAT? Since when have we ever done that, DJ?

If pitching in with a bunch of other people across this country to try to save your country isn't enough for you, then yeah, you're right, forget it.

I'm done. cya

[DjLoTi]

Really? Yeah, I know people should be doing this for the cause, but time is time, and if I'm spending like 40 hours or more pushing Ron Paul in a week, I mean ... like I said my time is valuable, so is all of our time. It's not like I said it had to happen, I was just looking for support. Jees I even get freakin tipped when I dj for free at parties. Surely not everyone is so cheap

[JoshLowry]

If someone wants to voluntarily donate, why pile onto the person who receives said charity?

I think the snipes were unnecessary from the unhappy spectators/volunteers who don't need/ask for private help.

DJ, many people here have been consistently helpful. Please don't paint us with a broad brush. Maybe your thread didn't stay bumped enough?

[DjLoTi]

Yeah, it's not everybody or anything. It's just kind of the direction of things. I am just kind of my own person and do my own thing. If that isn't compatible around here, it's obviously not here, it's me. Maybe I just came across the wrong way, but either way, we'll see where it goes, maybe we can get some fliers and printing done. That's looking like the best-case scenario. I guess I just have to accept the fact that some people think don't think I should get anything for all my energy and efforts.

[angelatc]

lol. I won't be 'working' for the grassroots because they obviously don't pay. If I just do it anyway, then I *am* the grassroots. Ironically, that is getting no support on rpfs from people like you

As somebody who has happily donated to DJLoti's past endeavors, and would happily donate again if my economic circumstances were the same as they were 4 years ago - I am amazed at how many people weren't even here last time around.

Screw them. Do what you can, NIck, but it's gotta be fun or it isn't real.

[iGGz]

I have a few concerts I'd like to go to...

[DjLoTi]

I have a few concerts I'd like to go to...

While you're talking about it, I'm doing it. I've gone to wakarusa, going to electric forest and camp bisco, and maybe the big up, and maybe burning man. So maybe don't talk about it.. do it! ;)

[speciallyblend]

Seems as though there's simply no support anyway. I could list the plane ticket, printing, gas to get to the fest, other expenses, plus my time at the fest, which would be well above $500. I might think about doing that, but right now I am really discouraged by the attitude here and am frankly insulted by some of the insinuations

i hear ya djloti, i understand your frustration. ideas take money to put these ideas forward. I understand your passion. i wanted to sell ron paul to all the med stores and grow stores in colorado but it all takes time and money, neither which i have. i actually have my first day off in 3 months after tonight . All you can do is your best! keep your chin up if anyone can help you they will but times are tuff!! we all want to do everything but we cannot!!

[angelatc]

I have a few concerts I'd like to go to...

He has said over and over and over that he is already going to the concert,=, and wants the money to create some targeted specialty material.

I swear the RNC has sent in drones to bomb the spirit out of the grassroots. It's really, really sad.

[DjLoTi]

Screw them. Do what you can, NIck, but it's gotta be fun or it isn't real.

Yess =)) there is going to be a lot of positive energy here, I think the message will resonate well. Ron Paul is already pretty popular in Michigan, and this demographic is really receptive =)

[tsai3904]

Yess =)) there is going to be a lot of positive energy here, I think the message will resonate well. Ron Paul is already pretty popular in Michigan, and this demographic is really receptive =)

Do you already have a flier in mind you want to print out or do you have to create one from scratch?

[fcreature]

Bisco? See you there... I'll be sporting my Ron Paul t-shirts the entire time.

[speciallyblend]

I'm not really like 'leaving' leaving. Now that people are actually being nice and talking to me and not calling me rude things and insulting my intentions. Maybe we can brainstorm an idea to get a bunch of fliers into the hands of these festi-goers, but honestly I feel like my time and effort should be somewhat compensated. If it is or not can be up for debate, but I still have my opinion that it should be. Anyways, yeah I should probably call it a night. It's getting late, especially for me lol

relax man you cannot do everything. I suggest you just go to the concert and take a break and enjoy yourself!! you have done more then some do in a lifetime.

[speciallyblend]

Bisco? See you there... I'll be sporting my Ron Paul t-shirts the entire time.

you guys should feel good about going to concerts. that itself is a luxury i cannot afford!!

[DjLoTi]

Do you already have a flier in mind you want to print out or do you have to create one from scratch?

Well I have to make one, but I already know what I want on it. Mainly (register republican) (get your friends to do it)_(vote for Ron in the primary.. with maybe a link to state-to-state information) and talking points for Ron on the other side. Ending the wars overseas, war on drugs, other things. Getting kind of tired but we can go more into it later =)

[specsaregood]

I dunno man, I just feel like sending $500 to the campaign so Steve Bierfeldt can enhance his reach of already identified voters in a key battleground state is a more efficient use of $500.00, especially in these tough economic times.

Indeed, $500 would get better results paying youngins to go to retirement communities campaigning for Dr. Paul. That's where the votes are. That's the stuff I'm down for donating for this time around.

[DjLoTi]

Indeed, $500 would get better results paying youngins to go to retirement communities campaigning for Dr. Paul. That's where the votes are. That's the stuff I'm down for donating for this time around.

I hear what you're saying, but some old people are stuck in their ways. A lot of Ron's energy comes from the young people. Plus, the older people won't be so concentrated. It would likely cost more then $500 to reach out to 20,000 older people in retirement communities, if you think gas, food, materials, all that, it would take a lot of time. We really should be hitting *all* the people. Sporting events are good but only last a few hours. These festivals last for days and are filled with receptive people who are likely ignorant of the greatness of Ron. Not attacking your position, just defending mine

[speciallyblend]

Well I have to make one, but I already know what I want on it. Mainly (register republican) (get your friends to do it)_(vote for Ron in the primary.. with maybe a link to state-to-state information) and talking points for Ron on the other side. Ending the wars overseas, war on drugs, other things. Getting kind of tired but we can go more into it later =)

if you get these made please post it here so others can use to;) might even use the flier to drop off at the grow stores in colorado and med stores!! good luck djloti at the shows! if i had the money i would send to you in a heartbeat!!

[dannno]

Get back to the roots, get back to the message.

[iGGz]

I swear the RNC has sent in drones to bomb the spirit out of the grassroots.

Did Santorum tell you?

[Bman]

I hear what you're saying, but some old people are stuck in their ways. A lot of Ron's energy comes from the young people. Plus, the older people won't be so concentrated. It would likely cost more then $500 to reach out to 20,000 older people in retirement communities, if you think gas, food, materials, all that, it would take a lot of time. We really should be hitting *all* the people. Sporting events are good but only last a few hours. These festivals last for days and are filled with receptive people who are likely ignorant of the greatness of Ron. Not attacking your position, just defending mine


I kind of disagree with that mindset. Let me explain. You have to win old people to get to the next round. Old people are in concentration. They're just not at places most of us younger people go. Old folks homes, bingo, a list of who is registered and how many times they've voted. When I went door to door getting signatures I found that even if it's harder to teach an old dog new tricks, they will actually spend time talking with you. If you know what is important to these older folks the conversation can go extremely well.

[DjLoTi]

I kind of disagree with that mindset. Let me explain. You have to win old people to get to the next round. Old people are in concentration. They're just not at places most of us younger people go. Old folks homes, bingo, a list of who is registered and how many times they've voted. When I went door to door getting signatures I found that even if it's harder to teach an old dog new tricks, they will actually spend time talking with you. If you know what is important to these older folks the conversation can go extremely well.

20,000 people who are all going to be having the experience of a lifetime, can find out how to end the wars, the bailouts, and the drug war. These will be young people, old people, all types of people, and these people will hopefully tell their friends and family (the flier should tell them to do that). We're not just going to make the connections through osmosis. Someone actually has to make it happen

But again, I honestly think it would be surprisingly more expensive to reach out to 20,000 of these other target voters you speak of... I guess we are all entitled to our opinions but I like to think I'm thinking facts =)

[Bman]

20,000 people who are all going to be having the experience of a lifetime, can find out how to end the wars, the bailouts, and the drug war. These will be young people, old people, all types of people, and these people will hopefully tell their friends and family (the flier should tell them to do that). We're not just going to make the connections through osmosis. Someone actually has to make it happen

But again, I honestly think it would be surprisingly more expensive to reach out to 20,000 of these other target voters you speak of... I guess we are all entitled to our opinions but I like to think I'm speaking in facts =)


By all means I think you should go through with your idea, but you won't be talking to 20,000 people, certainly not one on one, and the thing about young people isn't getting them to think Ron's worth voting for. It's getting them off their asses to vote. I'm just saying overall I believe older folks is were this campaigns going to largely have to focus if it has a snowballs chance. Those people live to vote.

[DjLoTi]

Well I might not talk to 20,000 of them one on one, but I was going to split it up with me and a friend. And if I can talk to a group of 5 people at once, it's almost like I'm talking one-on-one. I mean, I am really good at what I do! I could go from group to group and really get people to know about Ron Paul. It would be a lot cooler to get support from the forums (or whatever Ron Paul affiliated group). I personally think it's worth it, but then again I am the one putting in a full-time schedule talking to tons of people and getting fliers to tons of people.. well the government considers 40 hours full time... so you know

[speciallyblend]

By all means I think you should go through with your idea, but you won't be talking to 20,000 people, certainly not one on one, and the thing about young people isn't getting them to think Ron's worth voting for. It's getting them off their asses to vote. I'm just saying overall I believe older folks is were this campaigns going to largely have to focus if it has a snowballs chance. Those people live to vote.

the flyer should speak for him so yes you can pass out 1000's of flyers in less then 1hr with 1 to 2 people!! This should be done at iowa/nh concerts now!!

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

There are 2 levels I can go - super pro, or my own way. Super pro means I talk to all these people and hand these out to everybody. And it's going to be tiring and take up a lot of my time. I also have a life that I live, and have needs as a person, so there's that aspect as well. I'm not just a Ron Paul robot that runs on nothing.

You should really watch the video by Gary North about becoming an Austrian Economics Professor vis a vis a career and a calling. You really shouldn't expect to make anything off trying to get liberty folks elected. No one is begrudging your proposition, we just do not feel like it has value to ourselves, and value derives from the subjective values of other individuals. You may think your time is worth two million dollars, but if no one else does, then it is not worth two million...likewise, if no one feels that this endeavor is worth 500$, then it isn't. I am eager to help on fliers, postcards, voter targetting outreach, etc., but I'm not going to give my money to something like this. Honestly, I can't see how printing would cost you 500$...perhaps if you could show us the costs up-front and what we are getting for our money we may be more apt to fund this. You can't expect to just throw out a few details and ask for 500$ and expect people eager to fork over their money. Try doing that in a business proposal to investors / capital meetings and they'll laugh you out of the room. Just something to think about in the future.

[robmpreston]

Shocking that people wouldn't want to donate so you can go party at EF and Bisco. Hell, I'm going to All Good next month, maybe I should beg for money too so I can pay for my friend's ticket and hand out some RP literature to justify it.

Bleh.

[robmpreston]

Man, no offense but I did that last election and totally got crapped on. And really, the only 'required' funds I was looking for was for printing. But people took it way too far. Now I'm just totally done with it. I mean, I started the radio, I'm in the movie, I'm active in some big Ron Paul circles... but really obviously none of that matters. If people don't find value in the idea, they don't have to contribute. I did, but really yeah I'm just done talking about it. If anything, I know some of the main promoters for the big up festival in NY, and all this whole ordeal really did was ensure that I should not pursue the other idea I had, which was throw a music festival/voter registration party in NH, with a super legit line-up... I could actually make that happen probably, but it would take a seriousness I would not likely find on these forums... so It's alll good.....
The difference is that's actually a legitimately good idea. And now you're acting like that was the plan so that you can hold it over our heads in the hopes of getting more donations. That's not what the grassroots is about. This isn't blackmail.

[pacelli]

We're in an economic depression that Ron Paul predicted 4 years ago. I just don't have the money to donate this time around. I maxed out last time and funded all kinds of grassroots projects (including my own, never asked for a chip-in).

I'm halfway to maxing out to Ron Paul's current campaign this time around after selling furniture to afford it. Those donations were made before you made your post. So for me, I just can't afford to donate like I did 4 years ago. Sorry if that is disappointing, I'm sure you have a just cause, I just can't afford it.

In other news I'm still putting fliers under people's wipes blades at parking lots.

[Luciconsort]

next Cannibal Corpse show I go to I'll hand out fliers in the pit. Prolly be hard to persuade anyone of anything after I crack your ribs to a rousing chorus of "Stabbed in the throat" lol.... just lightening the mood :)

[UtahApocalypse]

Dj,

I live 15 minutes from Electric Forest. I can have 10-20 full size Ron Paul 4x4 signs made to be placed at or near the venue. I also can work to redo the "ozz fest" fliers to change them for 2012 campaign. I also know the campground host at the Double JJ resort where the festival is located. I can try to get permission to have signs at the campground. Once I get the fliers designed, if you want to arrange to pick them up from me I can get a chip-in for the printing costs.

[DjLoTi]

The difference is that's actually a legitimately good idea. And now you're acting like that was the plan so that you can hold it over our heads in the hopes of getting more donations. That's not what the grassroots is about. This isn't blackmail.

Uh, yeah it's a great idea. And you might even think so. I do too. But I am sure I would get bashed and it would be madness and chaos to try and get something serious like that going. If I can't even do this without getting bashed and reamed, why on earth would would I spend even more time and work even harder and spend more of my own scarce resources so I can do things on my own? Of course, it wouldn't matter, because there's no way I could do that on my own anyway.

I think I am just gonna talk to Utah about the flier design and he can raise the money for the printing cost. I will walk away from this knowing not to ask for help anymore about my ideas. Like I said, these people won't learn about RP through osmosis. Someone actually has to make the connections. It costs money to get and go to this festival. ... eh ... I'm done explaining myself.

I mean even when I djed at a pool party for free for a group of like 12-15 people, I still got tipped 10 bucks. And those were college kids. I'm not saying people have to contribute, but for people to act like it's some kind of outrageous thing for me to ask for backing when I'm going to be grinding hard...

Yeah lets just say, go and find somebody who will do what I will do for free. I like to think I am kind of professional, so I consider all costs associated, including my personal time, and the efforts it will take to do what I plan to do. If you guys want to scoff at the idea that I should be paid, then have the official campaign do all your work for you. They're the ones who've raised millions of dollars and are on a payroll.

And then come up with ideas for them to do and then do them. Hopefully it'll work. I'm going to stay out of it for now. But I will say thanks to those who are cool and to those who will help us get some stuff printed. Don't worry about me - I'm just a Ron Paul robot that runs on nothing (lol SI)

[Nate-ForLiberty]

We're in an economic depression that Ron Paul predicted 4 years ago. I just don't have the money to donate this time around. I maxed out last time and funded all kinds of grassroots projects (including my own, never asked for a chip-in).

I'm halfway to maxing out to Ron Paul's current campaign this time around after selling furniture to afford it. Those donations were made before you made your post. So for me, I just can't afford to donate like I did 4 years ago. Sorry if that is disappointing, I'm sure you have a just cause, I just can't afford it.

In other news I'm still putting fliers under people's wipes blades at parking lots.

this. the vast majority of us work for free. And it costs us money to do so. I understand being tipped for your time. I understand getting paid. But this is a Presidential election. There is a reason you see the word "volunteer" everywhere. There isn't money to pay for all the cool ideas people have.

If you are 100% serious about restoring freedom, then you will find a way to implement your ideas. If asking for donations didn't work, fine. Go sell some cookies. Do whatever you have to do, but don't say, 'people were jerks so I'm not going to be involved this time'. WTF is that? This isn't going to be easy, ESPECIALLY since we are in a depression. If you feel like you are a professional and should get paid, great! Go get paid! But don't expect the Ron Paul grassroots to pay you! Do what the rest of us do and channel money from our income into the movement. The grassroots is NOT a source of income.

[DjLoTi]

Maybe people should start asking for help more often. Don't get mad at me because I am comfortable with putting myself out there and asking for help. I didn't think I would get bashed at the level I did, though. We should all be helping each other, not going rouge and keeping secrets. We're supposed to be a team. But I am really turned off by the reaction of many. So that has left an impression, for sure.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

this. the vast majority of us work for free. And it costs us money to do so. I understand being tipped for your time. I understand getting paid. But this is a Presidential election. There is a reason you see the word "volunteer" everywhere. There isn't money to pay for all the cool ideas people have.

If you are 100% serious about restoring freedom, then you will find a way to implement your ideas. If asking for donations didn't work, fine. Go sell some cookies. Do whatever you have to do, but don't say, 'people were jerks so I'm not going to be involved this time'. WTF is that? This isn't going to be easy, ESPECIALLY since we are in a depression. If you feel like you are a professional and should get paid, great! Go get paid! But don't expect the Ron Paul grassroots to pay you! Do what the rest of us do and channel money from our income into the movement. The grassroots is NOT a source of income.

Here's a volunteer's project/chipin that worked out.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?296730-Want-to-attend-need-gas-ChipIn-ready-FILLED

Maybe look at what she did and her approach, compared to yours, DjLoti.

[DjLoTi]

Here's a volunteer's project/chipin that worked out.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?296730-Want-to-attend-need-gas-ChipIn-ready-FILLED

Maybe look at what she did and her approach, compared to yours, DjLoti.

Ok, so there is a fundamental difference. She was raising money to go to an event, basically to enjoy (and vote for Ron Paul which takes about 5 minutes). I was planning on spending (combined with me and my friend) at least 25 man hours talking to people and handing out fliers, and printing out fliers, which also costs money. '

There is also a fundamental difference in the reaction. People didn't say 'omg I would love to go have fun, I wish someone would pay for me to go have a trip in NOLA'. Nor did people say ' Oh yeah, what a SCAM! Send me $300 and I will go party on bourbon st for a weekend!! '

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Maybe people should start asking for help more often. Don't get mad at me because I am comfortable with putting myself out there and asking for help. I didn't think I would get bashed at the level I did, though. We should all be helping each other, not going rouge and keeping secrets. We're supposed to be a team. But I am really turned off by the reaction of many. So that has left an impression, for sure.

We are nothing like a team :)! And that's a good thing. We are what most of us want. Total freedom to do as we please. Sometimes, the masses seem to all be going in the same direction. Most of the time, everyone is just doing what they do.

We do help each other, when we think it's necessary. Just because you think help should be coming your direction doesn't mean the rest of us all think that way too. It's very hard getting projects off the ground. I've had projects that have failed, too. When that happens, you just move on to the next.

It's like these moneybombs. You take a pivotal role in raising a hell of a lot of money for Dr. Paul, and then you identify with that. You think that you are the head dude when it comes to moneybombs. When in reality, you were in the right place at the right time.

Like Dr. Paul says in "For Liberty", . . .Ideas move nations, not individuals. Unless they are in the right place at the right time.

Ideas move the Grassroots, not individuals, unless they are in the right place at the right time.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Ok, so there is a fundamental difference. She was raising money to go to an event, basically to enjoy (and vote for Ron Paul which takes about 5 minutes). I was planning on spending (combined with me and my friend) at least 25 man hours talking to people and handing out fliers, and printing out fliers, which also costs money. '

There is also a fundamental difference in the reaction. People didn't say 'omg I would love to go have fun, I wish someone would pay for me to go have a trip in NOLA'. Nor did people say ' Oh yeah, what a SCAM! Send me $300 and I will go party on bourbon st for a weekend!! '

Specifically, she was raising money for gas. She already had a ride, a place to stay, a ticket. Everything was in place, she just needed fuel to get there. And it was an event where Ron Paul and actual voters would be. It wasn't a non-political concert. There was direction, purpose, and a plan with Suzu. And everyone knew exactly where the money they donated was going.


*It was very that clear she wasn't getting "paid".

[DjLoTi]

Ok, well, a 1-way ticket was $140. The festival ticket is $250. The greyhound to Boston will cost $110. The ticket to camp bisco will cost $160. Eventually, I'll need to get home, so hopefully that will only be $150. I'm not sure how much printing will cost. And again, if 25 man-hours really has no value to you guys, then that is sad. My 'goal' was only $500. My costume is actually worth over $150. I pretty much have everything paid for because I work hard and I make things happen. I was going to compound my activism to possibly lower my personal total cost to my adventure (and make a difference, of course!). But I have given up on those hopes. I suppose there is only a certain element the 'grassroots' will respond to

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Ok, well, a 1-way ticket was $140. The festival ticket is $250. The greyhound to Boston will cost $110. The ticket to camp bisco will cost $160. Eventually, I'll need to get home, so hopefully that will only be $150. I'm not sure how much printing will cost. And again, if 25 man-hours really has no value to you guys, then that is sad. My 'goal' was only $500. My costume is actually worth over $150. I pretty much have everything paid for because I work hard and I make things happen. I was going to compound my activism to possibly lower my personal total cost to my adventure (and make a difference, of course!). But I have given up on those hopes. I suppose there is only a certain element the 'grassroots' will respond to

See, It's hard for me to see the pay off for Ron Paul. For instance,...

http://iowaforronpaul.com/projects.php

Operation: Grassroots Each County: $550 Full Funding: $54,450
Grassroots support is THE way to build momentum and create a “buzz” around a candidate. And no candidate has more grassroots support than Ron Paul!
Our goal is to be competitive in EVERY county in the state of Iowa. That means we will need to build a solid campaign organization in all 99 counties.
Every $500 we raise will allow us to firmly establish ourselves in one county and grow our support by leaps and bounds.
Precinct information, contact lists, voter data, campaign literature, and other necessary supplies are absolutely vital to reaching out to more grassroots supporters and building a county infra-structure. We will prove to the nation that Ron Paul and his supporters are fully capable of successful organization.
With your help we can ensure Ron Paul builds a foundation of support in every county in the state!

For about the same amount of money, we can get another county in Iowa with "Operation: Grassroots". People would be much more willing to donate there.

[CaseyJones]

http://www.iowaforronpaul.com/projects.php better use of $500 or even $12.50 imo

[DjLoTi]

The payoff is, I'm going to be going from group to group handing out fliers and telling people that the only way to end the wars is to register republican, vote Ron Paul, and tell all your friends to do it! The payoff is, I get hundreds, maybe thousands of people excited about ending the wars, and they go home and tell their friends and family, ect ect. These huge masses of people only happen ONCE A YEAR. This is OUR ONLY CHANCE to get all these people AT ONCE!!! If you guys are wondering where the enthusiastic grassroots is, they're probably living a normal life and doing 'cool' things, I mean I am reaching out to an entirely different demographic, on an entirely different level. Out of all the people I talk to, perhaps a fraction of them would donate to Ron Paul. I imagine it is easily possible that he would raise over $500 from the people I will interact with alone.

But I am not going to keep reiterating over and over to make it seem like my idea has some sort of value. I mean, there will probably be more people here then people who live in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_County,_Iowa

I bet my 20,000 people will be a lot more receptive then every man, woman, and child in these counties. So actually, when you put it in that perspective, my $500 is actually somewhat of a deal

[newyearsrevolution08]

The great thing about grassroots and volunteering is that the cost involved is "your time" and the pay is "the experience" you receive while doing it. You don't get paid to volunteer, if you want to then sign on with the official campaign because last cycle there were guys getting decent pay for sure... didn't do us any good however BUT shit paid staffers can sometimes accomplish what we grassroots might not be able to.

[Cowlesy]

Ok, well, a 1-way ticket was $140. The festival ticket is $250. The greyhound to Boston will cost $110. The ticket to camp bisco will cost $160. Eventually, I'll need to get home, so hopefully that will only be $150. I'm not sure how much printing will cost. And again, if 25 man-hours really has no value to you guys, then that is sad. My 'goal' was only $500. My costume is actually worth over $150. I pretty much have everything paid for because I work hard and I make things happen. I was going to compound my activism to possibly lower my personal total cost to my adventure (and make a difference, of course!). But I have given up on those hopes. I suppose there is only a certain element the 'grassroots' will respond to

Hey you can always raise the cash on dailypaul and then post it here to show how much more awesome those guys are!

[DjLoTi]

Yeah I am really just done asking for help or suggesting my ideas. I'm just going to run on my own initiative and do my own thing. You guys can have best of luck with your projects and ideas.

[Danke]

Ok, well, a 1-way ticket was $140. The festival ticket is $250. The greyhound to Boston will cost $110. The ticket to camp bisco will cost $160. Eventually, I'll need to get home, so hopefully that will only be $150. I'm not sure how much printing will cost. And again, if 25 man-hours really has no value to you guys, then that is sad. My 'goal' was only $500. My costume is actually worth over $150. I pretty much have everything paid for because I work hard and I make things happen. I was going to compound my activism to possibly lower my personal total cost to my adventure (and make a difference, of course!). But I have given up on those hopes. I suppose there is only a certain element the 'grassroots' will respond to

Did you already buy your plane tickets? What is the Departure and Destination?

[Nate-ForLiberty]

The payoff is, I'm going to be going from group to group handing out fliers and telling people that the only way to end the wars is to register republican, vote Ron Paul, and tell all your friends to do it! The payoff is, I get hundreds, maybe thousands of people excited about ending the wars, and they go home and tell their friends and family, ect ect. These huge masses of people only happen ONCE A YEAR. This is OUR ONLY CHANCE to get all these people AT ONCE!!! If you guys are wondering where the enthusiastic grassroots is, they're probably living a normal life and doing 'cool' things, I mean I am reaching out to an entirely different demographic, on an entirely different level. Out of all the people I talk to, perhaps a fraction of them would donate to Ron Paul. I imagine it is easily possible that he would raise over $500 from the people I will interact with alone.

But I am not going to keep reiterating over and over to make it seem like my idea has some sort of value. I mean, there will probably be more people here then people who live in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_County,_Iowa

I bet my 20,000 people will be a lot more receptive then every man, woman, and child in these counties. So actually, when you put it in that perspective, my $500 is actually somewhat of a deal

Not really. How many of the people you talk to will actually vote? Iowa is a very important state for getting delegates. We have to win Iowa. To do that, we need to not just talk to everybody there, but have quality interactions with them. Make sure that they are 100% on board with Ron Paul and then have them become delegates. Speaking to a few thousand in Iowa is soooo much more valuable than speaking to 20,000 people who have congregated from the 4 corners. Quality over quantity.

Of those 20,000 people, there has to be a Ron Paul supporter in there. Why can't we find them and get some flyers to them since they are already going to be there?

Listen DjLoti, I don't think anyone at RPFs thinks you're a bad guy. We like you. I personally think what you did last go around was very cool! I think you really do love freedom and want to spread the message. But in this case, it really seems like there is this awesome concert you want to go to, but you don't have the funds. Therefore, you take some flyers with you and say you are going for Ron Paul.

I don't like that. And I imagine others don't either.

[tsai3904]

I bet my 20,000 people will be a lot more receptive then every man, woman, and child in these counties. So actually, when you put it in that perspective, my $500 is actually somewhat of a deal

You said you'll be attending many more concerts. Why don't you use this first concert as a trial run and see what kind of reception you get? I'm sure if you come back and report that people were very receptive to Ron Paul's message, you'll be able to find more monetary support for your next endeavors.

[belian78]

LMAO.. passing out fliers at a rave... Yeah I been to a few in my day, and if someone came up to me with that and a speech I'd be all gung ho, take your flier and thank you. I'd give you a hug and wish you luck, then within 20 mins that flier would be lost in the wind. The next day I may or may not remember a thing you said.

Certainly not the best ROI, passing out info at raves/concerts, especially with the Iowa projects needing funded. And to add, you're actually indignant that the grassroots won't fund you to go to a rave... My mind, it boggles. I love what you did last campaign, but I can't get behind you on this.

[DjLoTi]

Did you already buy your plane tickets? What is the Departure and Destination?

I fly to Chicago on Tuesday. Then I take the greyhound to Kalamazoo, meet up with my friends, and we all go to the fest. Afterwards I was planning on greyhounding it to Boston, meeting up with another crew of my friends (the ones throwing the big up festival), and then we're going to camp bisco.



Of those 20,000 people, there has to be a Ron Paul supporter in there. Why can't we find them and get some flyers to them since they are already going to be there?

Do you really think these people are going to spend their festival hours walking around, handing out fliers to people? Not only that, but I feel that my experience and effectiveness has value. You could get a n00b to do this, or you could get me, a super pro. It is what it is.

But in this case, it really seems like there is this awesome concert you want to go to, but you don't have the funds. Therefore, you take some flyers with you and say you are going for Ron Paul.

I don't like that. And I imagine others don't either.

I am already going to these festivals and have planned for months. I am already probably going to be walking around talking to everybody. Anything that I raised was just going to be bonus, as I think the total cost to accomplish my idea is much higher then $500.


LMAO.. passing out fliers at a rave... Yeah I been to a few in my day, and if someone came up to me with that and a speech I'd be all gung ho, take your flier and thank you. I'd give you a hug and wish you luck, then within 20 mins that flier would be lost in the wind. The next day I may or may not remember a thing you said.

Certainly not the best ROI, passing out info at raves/concerts, especially with the Iowa projects needing funded. And to add, you're actually indignant that the grassroots won't fund you to go to a rave... My mind, it boggles. I love what you did last campaign, but I can't get behind you on this.

First off, this is not a 'rave'. It is a campout festival. People end up literally 'living' at the festival. I know what to expect, which is why I say I am a 'pro'. Obviously you have no idea what it means to go to a campout festival, because it is much more then just a 'rave'.

Secondly, maybe you wouldn't care, but I can promise you some people will. Even if they don't really 'care', it's called planting a seed. Many of these people probably won't hear of any presidential candidate. When they think politics, if the only name they heard was 'Ron Paul', and they heard it at a place like electric forest.. ? I mean, we don't have to tell these people anything, we don't have to do anything. We can just do nothing. We can forget I ever posted this and just do nothing. I'll just go and have a good time. Or I could seriously campaign. Well I would, if there was any support for it.

[r3volution]

super pro ? get over your self .
why dont you use some of that $ you made from Ron Paul radio in 2008 ?
i always had a sneaky suspicion you were in this campaign to make money and you just confirmed that to me when you broke it down to an hourly rate .
seriously people , dont give this guy money . donate it directly to RON .

[DjLoTi]

super pro ? get over your self .
why dont you use some of that $ you made from Ron Paul radio in 2008 ?
i always had a sneaky suspicion you were in this campaign to make money and you just confirmed that to me when you broke it down to an hourly rate .
seriously people , dont give this guy money . donate it directly to RON .


Uh, are you kidding me? I worked an insane amount of time and barely made anything off of RPR. You totally have no idea what you're talking about. Trust me, if anyone is *not* about the money, it's me. It's really not about the money. I broke it down so it's obvious to see I'm really not asking for much. I'm sure I'll raise enough money for printing fliers. I doubt I'll get help for anything else.

Yeah in 2008, I worked totally hard, made nothing, and STILL had people like you come around and say I was 'profiteering'. I mean, I'm just ASKING for help. People don't have to GIVE IT! Seriously, your attitude is the kind of attitude that makes me want to sign off, tune out, and have fun. But chances are, I'll still walk around, and hand out fliers, anyway

[gerryb]

Uh, are you kidding me? I worked an insane amount of time and barely made anything off of RPR. You totally have no idea what you're talking about. Trust me, if anyone is *not* about the money, it's me. It's really not about the money. I broke it down so it's obvious to see I'm really not asking for much. I'm sure I'll raise enough money for printing fliers. I doubt I'll get help for anything else.

If you want to get paid a single dime for your time, you are no longer a volunteer, you are a paid campaign staffer. Go submit your resume to the campaign.

All off the expensive you list are ridiculous, $12.50 an hour? jeesh.

[DjLoTi]

If you want to get paid a single dime for your time, you are no longer a volunteer, you are a paid campaign staffer. Go submit your resume to the campaign.

All off the expensive you list are ridiculous, $12.50 an hour? jeesh.


Yeah. I'll leave the campaigning to the campaigning staffers. I'd love to volunteer full time, but I have a life and bills to pay. I don't have someone else taking care of me.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Yeah. I'll leave the campaigning to the campaigning staffers. I'd love to volunteer full time, but I have a life and bills to pay. I don't have someone else taking care of me.

That's why it's called sacrifice.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?276290-Ron-Paul-on-Alex-Jones-quot-I-m-ambivalent-about-what-to-do-next-and-undecided.-quot&p=3074749&viewfull=1#post3074749

[libertybrewcity]

If you can drop over 1k for 4 concerts that cost anywhere from 200-400 bucks each, bus tickets, food, and other things, you can definitely afford to print up some fliers. I'm don't have a job and minimal savings but I just printed up 10000 Ron Paul cards.

If not, I told you how to get into every concert for free just by volunteering some time at each one. You would have saved hundreds of dollars and been able to afford your RP venture.

[DjLoTi]

That doesn't mean leave yourself out in the cold and don't reach out to people. If I don't reach out to these people, no one will. You guys will have to find someone else to do it. It will cost them $250 + whatever for printing. Since there is a poster saying he's going to bisco, you can get him to get the fliers and hand them out... if he wants to. I mean he just said he was going to wear his Ron Paul t-shirt. If that's how you guys want to do it, fine. Looks like it's all up to me to get the word out at the forest. It's all up to me to get the radio going. It's all up to me to do all this stuff. That's cool, but don't personally attack me or rain on my parade. In fact, this forums can stay with the storms, I'll do my own thing

[1836]

The payoff is, I'm going to be going from group to group handing out fliers and telling people that the only way to end the wars is to register republican, vote Ron Paul, and tell all your friends to do it! The payoff is, I get hundreds, maybe thousands of people excited about ending the wars, and they go home and tell their friends and family, ect ect. These huge masses of people only happen ONCE A YEAR. This is OUR ONLY CHANCE to get all these people AT ONCE!!! If you guys are wondering where the enthusiastic grassroots is, they're probably living a normal life and doing 'cool' things, I mean I am reaching out to an entirely different demographic, on an entirely different level. Out of all the people I talk to, perhaps a fraction of them would donate to Ron Paul. I imagine it is easily possible that he would raise over $500 from the people I will interact with alone.

But I am not going to keep reiterating over and over to make it seem like my idea has some sort of value. I mean, there will probably be more people here then people who live in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_County,_Iowa

I bet my 20,000 people will be a lot more receptive then every man, woman, and child in these counties. So actually, when you put it in that perspective, my $500 is actually somewhat of a deal

Oh, come on. Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I mean, honestly. My first post was intended as nicely as possible, but you keep going on and on.

I probably volunteered close to 1000 hours for Ron Paul in 2007 and 2008, and that's no exaggeration. I know many others did far more, and many on RPF. I went to a lot of meetings, waved signs on street corners, put fliers out, sat through speeches (and not fun ones), and that isn't even counting the week I spent in New Hampshire away from my business where I wasn't making money and was PAYING to volunteer, not getting paid.

On top of that, I donated over a grand to Ron Paul's campaign. You could say I got screwed, by your logic. Could say, I should have been paid for all my time and effort.

But I would not say so, because it was worth it, because I love freedom and the movement to support it, and I think Ron Paul would be a great president. That is worth more than any amount I could ever get paid, or pay. The truth is, each and every one of us could never pay enough to purchase our priceless freedom, which is granted us by our Creator. Many people have given their lives for that, and you can bet that they weren't paid anywhere near fairly for it.

By the way: Good luck finding many voters in a crowd of 20,000 young concert goers. I would truly be shocked if there were more than a few hundred likely voters in that crowd. That is a tough proposition, even for a super pro.

[1836]

That's why it's called sacrifice.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?276290-Ron-Paul-on-Alex-Jones-quot-I-m-ambivalent-about-what-to-do-next-and-undecided.-quot&p=3074749&viewfull=1#post3074749

Great post Nate. And you are right. The people who work on any political campaign are, for the most part, getting little out of it other than self-satisfaction and the good feeling of knowing they are working for a cause.

But this isn't just a political campaign. This is Ron Paul's campaign, and the thing we are all working for is bigger than any one of us. It is freedom, it is liberty, our Constitution being restored, the rights God gives each one of us.

[libertythor]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/files.posterous.com/lisastewart/McjHTF3sRwvSxx1wOP9OsxO2ZKdOK2aM30gCM7Z9W5usyJg4La KpdUCwinbP/DoubleFacePalm.jpg.scaled.500.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=A KIAJFZAE65UYRT34AOQ&Expires=1308782587&Signature=KNmOD9F5AMMnxX0Jaqc0UfEsptQ%3D

[LibertyRevolution]

Your handing out fliers at a concert, no one is going to care, read them, or remember them.
You are just wasting your time and money making a bunch of litter that will be on the ground at the end the day.
If your lucky maybe some those papers will be used to break up some trees on, other than that they are worthless.

You would be better off getting a list of Republican voters in your area and leaving them on their doors...

[MelissaWV]

Wow you can make $12.50/hour handing out fliers at a concert you're already attending, and wearing a costume?

Nope, you can't; the market really doesn't support that idea.

[gerryb]

Yeah. I'll leave the campaigning to the campaigning staffers. I'd love to volunteer full time, but I have a life and bills to pay. I don't have someone else taking care of me.

You still continue to see the differentiation between VOLUNTEER and STAFFER. Which one do you want to be? There are different requirements and rewards for each.