NBC chastises RP supporters for not listening too other candidates.

[Nickwanz]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/06/18/6888893-paul-wins-rlc-straw-poll-romney-fades-to-fifth

It points out that Ron Paul supporters are seen before, during, and after Ron Paul's speech. And that they are largely absent while other candidates are speaking. They just chalk it up to those pesky ron Paul nuts "....have organized to win straw polls at many other conservative events as well."

My concern is that we might look like we are just "crashing" these events. I just want to know what others think.

[ItsTime]

Just media spin, if Ron Paul supporters were not there they would have half the attendance.

[MRoCkEd]

"Ron Paul won the straw poll here overwhelmingly with 612 votes, drawing big boos and some quieter chants of "Ron Paul.""

Too bad the Ron Paul people didn't get in the room for the results!

[low preference guy]

Too bad the Ron Paul people didn't get in the room for the results!

Yeah. But the good thing is that RP won with barely any organization. I saw close to no effort at all from this forum.

[Nickwanz]

I'm just worried we come off as just a bunch of roudy young people that just organized a flash mob online just to bump up Ron's votes and leave. Then the media can spin the numbers as artificial. A little decorum would go a long way.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Sort of like...why didn't the Conservatives stay and listen to Howard Dean! They all got up and walked out after 'insert generic Conservative here' finished his speech. Those bunch of pesky nuts with no decorum. Yeah, sure... ok.. The same goes here. Why would Paleo-Cons/libertarians stay and listen to Neo-Cons/Progressives that populate these conventions? We come to listen to other people who are ideological close to ourselves. If they had Thomas Woods, Doug Casey, Rand Paul, Peter Schiff, BJ Lawson, John Dennis, Mary Ruwart, etc. in attendance giving speeches you wouldn't see us leave -- we would be enthralled to listen to their speeches and wisdom. We leave because just like 'conservatives' don't like to sit and listen to Progressive drivel, Paleo-Cons and libertarians do not like to stay and listen to Neo-Con/Progressive drivel.

[specsaregood]

My concern is that we might look like we are just "crashing" these events. I just want to know what others think.
I don't think it can be considered "crashing" when you pay to attend and evidently outnumber everybody else. That is more along the lines of making it your own.


Yeah. But the good thing is that RP won with barely any organization. I saw close to no effort at all from this forum.
This was in LA, and the RP supporters down there seem to take care of business largely on their own. They nearly won the LA caucus back in 2008 with little to no help, with RP coming in 2nd to a slate of every other candidates supporters teamed up together. LA could be our first big win in the election season this go-around.


I'm just worried we come off as just a bunch of roudy young people that just organized a flash mob online just to bump up Ron's votes and leave. Then the media can spin the numbers as artificial. A little decorum would go a long way.
Too late, stop worrying about something you have NO control over. The media is gonna spin it whatever way you want, RP supporters are gonna do whatever they want to do there is NOTHING you can do about it except lead by example and let everybody know that YOU are an RP supporter.

[Paul Or Nothing II]

Yeah. But the good thing is that RP won with barely any organization. I saw close to no effort at all from this forum.

Yeah, that was very encouraging that now there are so many of us that we just pop up out of nowhere to win these things & not only did we win but did it so comprehensively; numbers are definitely growing.


I'm just worried we come off as just a bunch of roudy young people that just organized a flash mob online just to bump up Ron's votes and leave. Then the media can spin the numbers as artificial. A little decorum would go a long way.

Welcome to RonPaulWorld, this is how it works here, no matter what Ron or his supporters do, media always tries to malign us & with the power they've with the American people they often succeed BUT good thing is that our numbers are growing & our message is resonating with more & more "mainstream" Americans & thereby even the rest of the GOP field.

[Thomas]

we really do have a problem with obnoxious and rude supporters sadly

[liberalnurse]

we really do have a problem with obnoxious and rude supporters sadly

I prefer commited and passionate. In the good doctors own words, "No matter how much our messge is ignored or ridiculed, as was done in the campaign, no matter how much they did to us, it only energised our grassroots." :)

[olehounddog]

I prefer commited and passionate. In the good doctors own words, "No matter how much our messge is ignored or ridiculed, as was done in the campaign, no matter how much they did to us, it only energised our grassroots." :)

^this.

[LibertyEagle]

I'm just worried we come off as just a bunch of roudy young people that just organized a flash mob online just to bump up Ron's votes and leave. Then the media can spin the numbers as artificial. A little decorum would go a long way.

I agree.

We HAVE TO get a number of conservative Republican votes for Ron Paul to win the Republican nomination. If we don't, we are done.

What would we say, if they all got up and left when Ron Paul started speaking? Like Ron Paul says... we should think about things in terms of, what would we think if they did it to us?

[LibertyEagle]

I prefer commited and passionate. In the good doctors own words, "No matter how much our messge is ignored or ridiculed, as was done in the campaign, no matter how much they did to us, it only energised our grassroots." :)

Problem is, there aren't enough of us in the grassroots to win. NOT NEARLY ENOUGH.

[speciallyblend]

Problem is, there aren't enough of us in the grassroots to win. NOT NEARLY ENOUGH.

stop worrinying le, the gop will elect obama!!

[acptulsa]

Three questions:

One, since when does the media trash a particular candidate's supporters? Before 2008, the closest thing I remember to this kind of thing was a couple of paragraphs in Theodore H. White's The Making of the President, 1960 where he said that if you judged by the noise their supporters made you'd think Kennedy was killing Nixon, but (as he put it) '...quiet people vote too.' Otherwise, about they closest they got was when they talked about how Dubya kept protestors out of his campaign events.

Two, since when does msnbc care about whether people listen to neocons or not? I mean, they usually don't recommend doing so, do they? Seriously. I never once saw msnbc, cnbc or, for that matter, NBC worry about whether neocons have audiences or not before they tried to protray tea parties as racist and showed a photo (taken from behind) of a rather dark-skinned tea party participant in the same article. And got discredited. And embarassed. And failed.

We listen to the ones who have the voting record we can support. msnbc, for all that it likes to pretend to be a responsible member of the Fourth Estate, won't even tell you what those voting records are.

I'm sorry their revolution isn't patiently polite enough to suit them. I really am. But these efforts to tar and feather Ron Paul by saying we're not polite enough for neocons is silly-assed whining, if we play it right it won't make people not want to be associated with us (people often like being associated with persons of principle), And for every old-line Republican we actually had to lose over this, we'll gain at least one crossover primary vote.

Three, since when do conservatives or RINOs listen to msnbc?

A bunch of rowdy young people who come to participate and leave. Tell me, Nickwanz, who the hell else in the Republican Party over the last, say, quarter century could get a bunch of young people to show up for any damned thing the stuffy Republican Party did? Most rank-and-file Republicans fall into two groups--the ones who liked their little fifedoms and would keep us out even if it meant they had only three old folks at the convention to lord it over, and those who were so damned happy to see patriotic young conservatives of any stripe show up in numbers that they wanted to learn about Ron Paul just to see what caused the magic.

The media criticizing participants in the political process of a republic. And honest ones looking out for their, their progeny's, and their neighbors' interests? Oh, is that what it's there for? :rolleyes:

[LibertyEagle]

Three, since when do conservatives or RINOs listen to msnbc?

No one had to listen to msnbc. You could hear the boos quite plainly on CSPAN. I would also guess that the people in attendance could see for themselves.

Are we trying to win people to our cause or not? We are acting like we have plenty to just usher Dr. Paul into victory and we do not.

[LibertyEagle]

stop worrinying le, the gop will elect obama!!

And some of us will have helped him win, sb.

[acptulsa]

No one had to listen to msnbc. You could hear the boos quite plainly on CSPAN. I would also guess that the people in attendance could see for themselves.

I have a mixed reaction to this. No, we shouldn't boo. Don't know if it was us, but may well have been. Boos make our feelings clear, but, yes, are rude and lack decorum. Better in every way to have all of the neocon talking points go without--or with only a tiny bit of--applause. Killing them with silence gets the same point across to the CSPAN audience, but with more admirable subtlety.

That said, if they don't want us to boo crooked bastards, they shouldn't complain when we remove ourselves from temptation. And General Electric's Propaganda Arm knows damned well they're only trying to trick us into hanging around out of politeness because they want the world to think there are still real Americans who just love to see us wander around the world kickin' ass...

[LibertyEagle]

Oh yeah, it was us.

[acptulsa]

Oh yeah, it was us.

Well, it would be more polite if G.E.'s fire control radar sets didn't lock onto civilians, too, but it isn't a perfect world. And if they don't like principled public participation in the workings of a Republic, that says more about them than us.

We shouldn't boo, no. Neither should we show up and applaud. And no other supporters in American political history have been so maligned for not doing so. It's unprecedented in its presumptuousness.

[Oukvekpwv]

One, since when does the media trash a particular candidate's supporters?

Yea, this is coming out more and more with Ron Paul success.. even in positive press his supporters are blamed for his success.. its ironic really.. they are trying to push that he has no chance of winning even though he has the support he does, it demonizes us and in any respect positive or negative it is really negative.. whatever postive press is really forced because they cant turn it against him, so whats the next best thing? highlighting how they think we are crazy.. but how does the whole process work? someone has to support someone.. someone has to organize for someone..

its too much to care about and this is what leads to the behavior they saw.. and yet, also ironically, from what i have seen, noone cared about Ron Paul being boo'ed but if any of us did that to any cadidate that sure as hell would be highlighted in the news.. this whole situations makes me really care less about what any of them has to say.. its beyond reasoning.. and this is the challenege we have to face as we try to gain further support..

[speciallyblend]

And some of us will have helped him win, sb.

yep that will be the gop leadership not us!! that was my point and is the point.

[LibertyEagle]

yep that will be the gop leadership not us!! that was my point and is the point.

Nope.

The people who are alienating other Republicans will have also contributed.

THAT is the point.

[acptulsa]

this whole situations makes me really care less about what any of them has to say.. its beyond reasoning.. and this is the challenege we have to face as we try to gain further support..

Oh, I care what they have to say. I care because I want to help everyone see through their agenda and their propaganda. Because the more people who see what they're up to, the more people we have on our side.


The people who are alienating other Republicans will have also contributed.

LE, it's no comforting thing to tell someone that they don't stand for something, so they're falling for anything. It doesn't usually make you friends--at least not at first. But while I do agree that we appear more principled if we exhibit at least as much decorum (preferably more decorum) than our unprincipled opponents, at some point we do have to stand up and say here I stand and the same old failed tripe will not budge me. And we just can't say, that's o.k., you can fall for anything, stand for nothing, and still be respectable.

No, we shouldn't push too hard. But we should still push. We've been skating fine lines since this started. Maybe someday we'll all--right down to the last of us--do this with absolutely perfect balance. But to err on the side of making corporatism and war seem respectable is at least as bad as seeming rude and rowdy.

Compared to most of the revolutions I've seen over the years, after all, this one is extradordinarily civilized.

[PatriotOne]

Ron Paul supporters will be respectful when the politicians earn their respect. Otherwise they deserve to be scorned and I have no problem with their public tar and feathering.

[malkusm]

A little decorum would go a long way.

+rep....Blowback is a concept that is not just restricted to foreign policy. When we walk out on speakers, or boo them, the supporters of those people will respond. Likewise with the media.

[malkusm]

Ron Paul supporters will be respectful when the politicians earn their respect. Otherwise they deserve to be scorned and I have no problem with their public tar and feathering.

If this were Ron Paul's attitude, why would he bother running as a Republican?

[acptulsa]

If this were Ron Paul's attitude, why would he bother running as a Republican?

Well, in all fairness, he does because it works better, as he has said. Party is just a vehicle, and in politics a bus will get you farther faster than a bicycle. That said, he believes in Reagans dictum of 'thou shalt not speak ill of another Republican.' And it's a good dictum. Especially for him.

That said, neither Reagan nor Paul ever said you have to speak well of a despicable Republican. Or applaud him wildly to make him look less despicable, either.

[malkusm]

Well, in all fairness, he does because it works better, as he has said. Party is just a vehicle, and in politics a bus will get you farther faster than a bicycle. That said, he believes in Reagans dictum of 'thou shalt not speak ill of another Republican.' And it's a good dictum. Especially for him.

That said, neither Reagan nor Paul ever said you have to speak well of a despicable Republican. Or applaud him wildly to make him look less despicable, either.

Not saying we should applaud wildly, but we should be respectful and treat others the way that we wish to be treated, and the way we wish Ron Paul to be treated.

[Valli6]

Stop letting the media make you feel like we've done something wrong.

Why should Paul supporters hog all the seats all day long?

I think it was considerate of Paul supporters to leave the hall they had packed to standing room! Other attendees deserve a chance to sit down too.

[MRoCkEd]

I wouldn't say our supporters should feel obligated to listen to other candidates, but they should refrain from booing or chanting "End the Fed!" and "Ron Paul!" at random times during other speeches; this serves no good purpose. You don't win people over this way.

[LibertyEagle]

Not saying we should applaud wildly, but we should be respectful and treat others the way that we wish to be treated, and the way we wish Ron Paul to be treated.

Quoted for truth!

[Nickwanz]

I have no problem with passionate showings of support. I just feel that people should at least be present for at least most of the speeches. I can see alot of people seated when Ron is talking that don't look amused, so they don't just leave. When we are talking about something as fickle as the average american voter, I think we need to treat how we present ourselves with a little more concern. Give the media less ammo.

Just to clarify, I think the boos were everyone else, and the faint chants of "Ron paul" were the few RP supporters that remained.

[acptulsa]

I have no problem with passionate showings of support. I just feel that people should at least be present for at least most of the speeches. I can see alot of people seated when Ron is talking that don't look amused, so they don't just leave. When we are talking about something as fickle as the average american voter, I think we need to treat how we present ourselves with a little more concern. Give the media less ammo.

msnbc has proven more than once that they're perfectly willing to manufacture 'ammo' out of whole cloth. And I think the best way to 'present ourselves' is to show our support, or lack of it, not through overt rudeness, but by being present for those who truly represent us, and by not being present for those who don't.

[Nickwanz]

I'm fully aware of the farce that is the media, but we just can't be making it easier for them to sully our base when we still have a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go!

[acptulsa]

I'm fully aware of the farce that is the media, but we just can't be making it easier for them to sully our base when we still have a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go!

Absolutely agreed. Our best role models are Ghandi and Jesus. Stop showing out and keep making sense.

[ProIndividual]

The real problem isn't that we don't listen to other candidates...the real problem is that we HAVE listened to them, read their quotes, and KNOW what they say now is BS. We KNOW that these sleaze bags say anything to get elected, and will flip-flop on all the major issues like Pawlenty, Cain, and Romney have.

It's not that we don't listen, it's that we are PRE-INFORMED, and don't think listening to sophism qualifies as giving these stooges a "fair shake".

Just more media spin. They know we are the most informed part of the electorate...and that's why they smear us.

[Nickwanz]

I know that what these guys are spewing is pure BS, as do most RP suporters. But we can't just be confident in what WE know, we can't preach to the choir anymore, we need to keep expanding our numbers, we need to get more older republican supervoters. But, we can't do that if we come off as bunch of crass kids!

[ProIndividual]

Nick, I understand your concern...but like the 7th inning stretch, I'm going to the restroom and to food stands during neocon speeches full of BS. You stay in your seat if you like, for appearence's sake, I'll go get something to eat and not waste my time. I have no belief we can sway the base by our actions or words...they are dogmatic and won't accept anything but their idea of "truth" (BS). We won't get them to vote for Ron because we look more open-minded (we are the most open-minded crowd there is), we will sway them by telling them politiely and firmly that if they nominate another libtard like McCain again, we will again make them lose to the Democrat (and laugh doing it) by voting thrid Party, or not at all.

We are not the foolish base, who vote Party over principle...we vote principle over Party, and that's our power. We maybe can't win the election, but we can lose it for them. Eventually they will get sick of losing, and will choose who we want. You don't take over a Party by being "go along to get along"; you take over a Party by showing you are willing to make them LOSE over and over again over a principle...something those intellectual midgets are not willing to do. That's our strength, our leverage on the base. That's how Barry Goldwater got nominated, the conservatives just wouldn't give in to the liberals supporting Nelson Rockefeller.

For non-base Republicans, who have open minds, this will not work, as they have some principles. They need to be convinced in the primaries, and I think we all try to do that as patiently as possible. Maybe stay for them if you like...but for me, I'm going to the restroom and getting a hot dog during these neocon seventh inning stretches (their speeches).

[LibertyEagle]

Ron Paul asked us to be polite.

We are his ambassadors.

[sailingaway]

I'm just worried we come off as just a bunch of roudy young people that just organized a flash mob online just to bump up Ron's votes and leave. Then the media can spin the numbers as artificial. A little decorum would go a long way.

There are a lot of threads on this. Obviously, from the perspective of those who came in at the end of the last campaign, as I did, the thing to do is PARTICIPATE not crash, but the people here earlier who don't feel that way bring up all the wrongs done by the other side and the marginalization by the GOP and media, and there is a lot of anger there. If we want to win, in any meaning of the word, we have to get past that anger and act strategically, which means politely. There are a lot of people in the GOP who would be open to Ron's message but won't be if they think we are rude party crashers, booing the views of those we disagree with.

However, that isn't to dismiss the blame on the other side. If you paid attention to what was happening nationwide in the GOP and media last time, and even still at least in the media, you will understand why those with boots on the ground in those areas feel like insurgents not participants. But if the insurgency (even if you view it that way) is to be successful, we have to use it to convince others and booing other speakers is about as counterproductive as a ninja setting off fireworks as he scales the gate into the compound....

[angelatc]

The real problem isn't that we don't listen to other candidates...the real problem is that we HAVE listened to them, read their quotes, and KNOW what they say now is BS. .

So pack their rooms, and surprise them with stone cold silence when they utter their applause lines. THe thing is, booing (which is inexcusably ride and it's impossible to fathom how anybody can actually feel justified in behaving that way) aside, if the Ron Paul people had stayed in the room all day, we'd likely be getting grief for not letting other people in the room to hear their candidates.

Every time, the same old crap. Idiots boo, the press uses it to make us look bad, so we do it again. Apparently some of us just aren't too bright.

[VerlieJoy]

Of course NBC and every other news media out there is going to chastise not only Ron Paul but his supporters as well. The "big dogs" running these organizations don't want this country restored. They don't want the American people to realize that their liberties and freedoms are being taken from them. So, they either try to say as little as possible about RP or they bash him and us. Perhaps they have forgotten that we are a republic...either way, it's our right to listen, cheer, and support whoever the hell we want.

[johnrocks]

Things like booing other speakers, walking out in droves, throwing snowballs at Hannity has given the entire Ron Paul movement an image problem.

I've been a supporter of Ron Paul for over twenty years and if it turns me off, imagine what it looks like to a supporter of other candidates who may have to go to another candidate if their guy drops out, undecided voters and people who have never seen Ron Paul before.


Grow up, treat others the way you want to be treated;personally; I'm not putting in the effort this time around like I did last time if this type behavior doesn't cease; oh, my puny one body not being at meet ups, placing signs, canvassing,etc. won't be noticed but multiply that times millions of others who get their news from the mass media instead of Lew Rockwell,Mises or here and we will again be scratching less than 5% of the market.

[WilliamC]

I've never heard Ron Paul boo or jeer an opponent, and I'm sure he's sat through some boring, wrong-headed speeches in his time.

[Working Poor]

To me it is kinda hard not to be crazy for DR. Paul especially knowing he is the only one who might turn us away from the tyrant squad.

[HarryBrowneLives]

The real question from NBC should not be why 612 people voted for Paul, but why 612 or 6,012 didn't vote for anybody else? We didn't bus in a bunch of people ... they just chose to show up. Apathy doesn't work for them and most of the others can't stand it. On the other hand, you don't see any of the SRLC official bitching or moving to end the straw poll. Why? Because we have become so big and there's so little fire for the others that isn't maunfactured by the MSM that the SRLC really wants our participation in the event. ,

I discourage the booing as well and don't particpate in it. That, however, has never stopped the attacks against us and never will even if the Neocon/Establishment crowd had 5% support in the party.

[acptulsa]

Well, the good news is the only dirt they have on our man is us.

Maybe this is a point we need to push. He's so sterling that their best argument is, you don't want to be associated with them.

That said, don't underestimate it. While phone banking in '08, I encountered a woman who voted for Paul in '88 and didn't want to vote with him again because some young supporters pissed her off. Now, she was elderly and obviously not quite as sharp as she once was. Even so, I'll just bet she got out there and voted for somebody.