Psychopaths make the perfect politicians!

[Edward777]

As the video says below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MZCHjGkTPg&feature=related

Men and women who have the traits associated with psychopaths have distinct advantages in our political culture. I think it is safe to say that many of the elite in media, politics and entertainment are psychopathic -- and I mean that in the real sense, not as a put down.

[cswake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ5cGYBV2TQ

[Edward777]

Just shared the political parody on my Facebook!

[acptulsa]

This ain't news. Nothing new here. But it is a good thing to remember the next time you hear someone complain that Ron Paul isn't slick enough to suit them.

[Edward777]

This ain't news. Nothing new here. But it is a good thing to remember the next time you hear someone complain that Ron Paul isn't slick enough to suit them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MZCHjGkTPg&feature=related

Not sure most people realize that when you call a politician a psychopath it is not merely an insult...it actually may be a diagnosis.

[acptulsa]

Repeat after me: 'Would you rather entrust our future to a salesman or a statesman?'

[outspoken]

read Political Ponerology... it will blow your mind and conscience.

[eproxy100]

Actually, there are probably more psychopaths in the banking industry than there are in politics.

Robert Hare, who is the leading researcher of psychopathy, created a list of 20 attributes common among psychopaths. If you look at the list you'll see that a lot of banking/managerial types posses those characteristics. Even Hare himself said that if he couldn't conduct his research on prisoners then his next choice would be to do it in the stock exchange.

What's really scary about this whole psychopathy issue is that those morally reprehensible (from my perspective) traits are what leads to success in this society.

Check this list in their "factor 1" category:

Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Emotionally shallow
Callous/lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

[Edward777]

Actually, there are probably more psychopaths in the banking industry than there are in politics.

Robert Hare, who is the leading researcher of psychopathy, created a list of 20 attributes common among psychopaths. If you look at the list you'll see that a lot of banking/managerial types posses those characteristics. Even Hare himself said that if he couldn't conduct his research on prisoners then his next choice would be to do it in the stock exchange.

What's really scary about this whole psychopathy issue is that those morally reprehensible (from my perspective) traits are what leads to success in this society.

Check this list in their "factor 1" category:

Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Emotionally shallow
Callous/lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MZCHjGkTPg&feature=related

Yes, these are traits that will enable one to rise to power in the corporate world, politics and even in the mating game.

[Edward777]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/06/politicians-and-serial-killers.html

seriel killers and politicians.

[outspoken]

...the same qualities can be found in some attracted to the priesthood. These people are all around us and 1 in 25 is a without conscience, i.e. sociopath. If liberty is to be had, we have to as a nation come together and realize that all large institutions are suseptable to infiltration by people who literally have no sense of right or wrong and are obscessed with winning/power. The bigger then entity/institution the more attractive it is to these monsters. On an aside, it is important that we move away from a nation who worships individualism while continuing to respect the paramount need for individual rights. To believe that it is advantageous to live in a self-centered society creates these monsters. No man is an island unto himself.

[tpreitzel]

Understanding humility is the best defense against psychopathy. In other words, truly realize that everything you attain is a consequence of something granted to you. You are what you've been given whether it is a physical gift or opportunity. Then, one will likely adopt an attitude of thanksgiving.

[heavenlyboy34]

...the same qualities can be found in some attracted to the priesthood. These people are all around us and 1 in 25 is a without conscience, i.e. sociopath. If liberty is to be had, we have to as a nation come together and realize that all large institutions are suseptable to infiltration by people who literally have no sense of right or wrong and are obscessed with winning/power. The bigger then entity/institution the more attractive it is to these monsters. On an aside, it is important that we move away from a nation who worships individualism while continuing to respect the paramount need for individual rights. To believe that it is advantageous to live in a self-centered society creates these monsters. No man is an island unto himself.Enlightened self-interest and self-centered are different things. We as humans can hold individualism and individual rights as the highest ideal and be unselfish at the same time.

[acptulsa]

Enlightened self-interest and self-centered are different things. We as humans can hold individualism and individual rights as the highest ideal and be unselfish at the same time.

Near as I can tell, that's the only way to do it.


'Well, you can get no more liberty than you give. That's my definition, but you got perfect liberty to work out your own.'--Will Rogers

[Edward777]

Although the defining characteristics of the psychopath may make them a popular leader, all will be done for the benefit ot the psychopath, nobody else.

[Vessol]

I don't think that there is any debate that the capitals of any government in the world hold the most sociopath's per square mile.

[Edward777]

I don't think that there is any debate that the capitals of any government in the world hold the most sociopath's per square mile.

Absolutely!

[Philhelm]

I've always tried to convince others that most of our dear masters are narcissistic megalomaniacs at best, and outright sociopaths at worst. I strongly believe that noble, righteous people would have no interest in dictating the lives of others. Our glorious aristocracy only serves its own glory, not the glory of America. Ron Paul is, as far as I'm concerned, my appointed champion in the defense of liberty. I feel sorry that such a seemingly honorable man must associate with such a viper's nest of corruption on a daily basis.

[Edward777]

I've always tried to convince others that most of our dear masters are narcissistic megalomaniacs at best, and outright sociopaths at worst. I strongly believe that noble, righteous people would have no interest in dictating the lives of others. Our glorious aristocracy only serves its own glory, not the glory of America. Ron Paul is, as far as I'm concerned, my appointed champion in the defense of liberty. I feel sorry that such a seemingly honorable man must associate with such a viper's nest of corruption on a daily basis.

Well, feel free to send the video to them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MZCHjGkTPg&feature=related

[amonasro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MZCHjGkTPg&feature=related

Yes, these are traits that will enable one to rise to power in the corporate world, politics and even in the mating game.

Luckily the potential mates, friends and family they leave strewn in their path to 'success' can usually see right through them. Voters aren't so lucky.

[idirtify]

...the same qualities can be found in some attracted to the priesthood. These people are all around us and 1 in 25 is a without conscience, i.e. sociopath. If liberty is to be had, we have to as a nation come together and realize that all large institutions are suseptable to infiltration by people who literally have no sense of right or wrong and are obscessed with winning/power. The bigger then entity/institution the more attractive it is to these monsters. On an aside, it is important that we move away from a nation who worships individualism while continuing to respect the paramount need for individual rights. To believe that it is advantageous to live in a self-centered society creates these monsters. No man is an island unto himself.

There will always be psychopathic individuals. But that’s no reason to shy away from individualism. It only means that a focus on the SYSTEM/MESSAGE is of primary importance. Since there will always be psychopaths, we must use the system that best checks their pathology and abandoned the one that fosters it. I believe that is another way to word the MESSAGE of Ron Paul, Libertarianism, and these forums.

edit:
Let me add that everyone has an ego. In a way, we all think we are more than we are. It’s what makes the “world go round”. In that regard, there may be but a fine line between “psychopathic” and “ambitious”. But that’s all the more reason to opt for the system that contains a natural balancing mechanism against egos gone wild.

Or should I say “TALENTLESS egos”, since we all enjoy the wild egos possessed by our entertainment celebrities. But that’s OK, since the system of free market capitalism allows certain self-centered pathologies when they contain real value. That’s the other side of the balancing mechanism.

[Edward777]

All psychopaths are non-conformists, but not all non-conformists are psychopaths. The thing is, we need the public to recognize when they are being acted upon by such individuals -- who pretend to be what they aren't. If people were more aware of what psychopathic personality traits are, they might be more selective in who they support for office.

[Edward777]

Also, the psychopath only cares about their own individuality.

[Edward777]

One more thing -- here is the Hare checklist for psychopathic personality. See if it fits the perfect political candidate if he/she is able to set goals:

http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html

[YumYum]

One more thing -- here is the Hare checklist for psychopathic personality. See if it fits the perfect political candidate if he/she is able to set goals:

http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html

Interesting web site. Psychopathic personality is either inherited, or it is a learned behavior. People that have both inherited psychopathic behavior and have also learned this behavior are pretty much doomed; they cannot be helped. I contend that not only are the majority of politicians psychopaths, so are the majority of entertainers. America is emulating these entertainers and we are becoming a nation of psychopaths. I talked to a therapist who said they don't refer to anyone as sociopaths anymore; sociopaths are psychopaths. Sociopaths were believed to be psychopaths who were non-violent, but it is now the opinion of the psychiatric community that all "sociopaths" have the capacity to be violent and have no remorse or guilt for causing injury to others. The list below from the web site you provided mentions that psychopaths usually have a criminal history, but many don't because they are good at not getting caught.

The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:

glib and superficial charm
grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
need for stimulation
pathological lying
cunning and manipulativeness
lack of remorse or guilt
shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
callousness and lack of empathy
parasitic lifestyle
poor behavioral controls
sexual promiscuity
early behavior problems
lack of realistic long-term goals
impulsivity
irresponsibility
failure to accept responsibility for own actions
many short-term marital relationships
juvenile delinquency
revocation of conditional release
criminal versatility

[eproxy100]

Interesting web site. Psychopathic personality is either inherited, or it is a learned behavior. People that have both inherited psychopathic behavior and have also learned this behavior are pretty much doomed; they cannot be helped. I contend that not only are the majority of politicians psychopaths, so are the majority of entertainers. America is emulating these entertainers and we are becoming a nation of psychopaths. I talked to a therapist who said they don't refer to anyone as sociopaths anymore; sociopaths are psychopaths. Sociopaths were believed to be psychopaths who were non-violent, but it is now the opinion of the psychiatric community that all "sociopaths" have the capacity to be violent and have no remorse or guilt for causing injury to others. The list below from the web site you provided mentions that psychopaths usually have a criminal history, but many don't because they are good at not getting caught.

The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:

glib and superficial charm
grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
need for stimulation
pathological lying
cunning and manipulativeness
lack of remorse or guilt
shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
callousness and lack of empathy
parasitic lifestyle
poor behavioral controls
sexual promiscuity
early behavior problems
lack of realistic long-term goals
impulsivity
irresponsibility
failure to accept responsibility for own actions
many short-term marital relationships
juvenile delinquency
revocation of conditional release
criminal versatility

About whether psychopathy is innate or learned, here's an interesting read: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/may/21/jon-ronson-how-to-spot-a-psychopath


He put word around the prison that he was looking for psychopathic and non-psychopathic volunteers for tests. He strapped them up to various EEG and sweat- and blood pressure-measuring machines, and also to an electricity generator, and explained to them that he was going to count backwards from 10 and when he reached one they'd receive a very painful electric shock.

The difference in the responses stunned Hare. The non-psychopathic volunteers (theirs were crimes of passion, usually, or crimes born from terrible poverty or abuse) steeled themselves ruefully, as if a painful electric shock were just the penance they deserved. They were, Hare noted, scared.

"And the psychopaths?" I asked.

"They didn't break a sweat," said Hare. "Nothing." The tests seemed to indicate that the amygdala, the part of the brain that should have anticipated the unpleasantness and sent the requisite signals of fear to the central nervous system, wasn't functioning as it should. It was an enormous breakthrough for Hare, his first clue that the brains of psychopaths were different from regular brains.

He was even more astonished when he repeated the test. This time, the psychopaths knew exactly how much pain they'd be in, and still: nothing. Hare learned something that others wouldn't for years: psychopaths were likely to reoffend. "They had no memory of the pain of the electric shock, even when the pain had occurred just moments before," Hare said. "So what's the point in threatening them with imprisonment if they break the terms of their parole? The threat has no meaning for them."

You mentioned entertainers, but let's not forget that many bankers are likely to be psychopaths too. It's unfortunate that some of those traits are very advantageous in society. By way of evolution the percentage of psychopaths in the population will probably increase. It's certainly not much of a positive evolution though.

[outspoken]

Eastern civilizations rely much more on interdependence and have a sociopathy rate of <1% while the rate here in the US is ~4%... and rising. Even within corporations in countries such as Japan you don't see the jacked up CEO incomes relative to the 'little' people. Also, there's many signs in our American culture that 'values' many of the hallmarks of a sociopath such as impulsivity, gaming the system, lack of empathy, promiscuity, etc. I believe in free market capitalism but also believe that worshiping money and winning above all else in the spirit of Ayn Rand is playing with fire... A fire that leads to such unholy alliances such as the one between banking corps and govt that exist today.

[idirtify]

I think we might be overly widening the definition of “psychopath” a bit and maybe losing the point of this thread. Lots of Americans have lots of these traits, such as impulsiveness and promiscuity and need of stimulation and many short-term relationships, etc. First, we are mainly talking about the psychotic traits that do direct harm to others. Second, the point is to opt for the system that best prevents the harmful behavior from manifesting (since we should assume that the disorder will tend to accumulate in positions of power). Of course FM capitalism allows for many exploitive traits, but the natural balances within that system does not allow direct harm to others. Let’s not confuse healthy ambition and the desire to profit with clinical psychoses. And let’s not confuse FM capitalism for the system that has no natural balances against such harmful abuse; government.

Since modern USA obviously does not have such a system (because the lack of natural checks has allowed the psychosis to sufficiently permeate government), I think the first order of business is to realize that we American citizens are no less affected than children of an abusive family; and are about as likely to be happy and well adjusted as a child growing up in a family with two violently and sexually abusive parents. I say “realize”, because it is well-known that children of abusive parents can be severely maladjusted (psychotic) and not realize it. So to understand the national problem (of government) fully, one must realize the nature of the generational cycle of abuse. IOW to make sure we don’t become them and/or continue the cycle, we must see and admit what they are. I think with the help of the internet and Ron Paul and threads like this, we are just now starting to do that. The children are finally waking up and realizing that their parents, who they previously loved and worshipped, have been abusing them their entire lives. The next step is to get out of the structure that allowed the abuse to flourish. So even if we retain some learned aggression from our “family history”, the better system will help convert it into a positive.

[Edward777]

The topic of evolution is brought up byeproxy100. If it is indeed true that psychopathic traits are inherited, yet tempered by parenting skills, it still is in the genes so to speak. So is it an evolutionary advantage? Let's see.

I heard a study reported in some documentary on sexuality that men who are totally narcissistic (an element of psychopathy) and men who are very giving tend to have the most sexual partners. So the two ends of the scale get the most mating opportunities. To put it simply, the guy who is out for conquest as well as the guy who feels like he is giving a woman something special by having sex with her will have far more sex than guys in between the extremes. Oh oh, the latter guys might also be narcissistic as well, huh?

Then again, one might speculate this occurs with sperm donors as well. Some guys feel their genes need to be magnified in a way that only sperm donation can do, while other guys feel the need to help people have families. Yet there too psychopaths have an advantage because they care nothing of societal norms while most guys would be too bashful to go in and give sperm. Oh well, guess who has a dozen extra kids in the long run.

In marriage psychopaths can be very loyal (in a Clintonian sort of way) and loving to their children. Yet at the same time they have to put on an act in order to show their spouse they "really care." Not sure if that pushes up the genetic expressions.

Then again, while the psychopath loves adrenaline rushes, maybe in war he finds a way to avoid fighting and stays home to impregnate the available women. Or if he does go to war maybe he is not the first to jump on a grenade to save his friends.

[ProIndividual]

Don't forget police. Politicians, murderers, rapists, CEOs and police are disproportionately sociopathic compared with the general population (the general population is 2-3% sociopathic, with a minority of sociopaths becoming violent...most sociopaths become successful business people instead, where their cutthroat nature can be used to help not only themselves, but everyone else indirectly. The main difference between violent sociopathts and non-violent sociopaths seems to be abuse as a child).

[eproxy100]

I think we might be overly widening the definition of “psychopath” a bit and maybe losing the point of this thread. Lots of Americans have lots of these traits, such as impulsiveness and promiscuity and need of stimulation and many short-term relationships, etc. First, we are mainly talking about the psychotic traits that do direct harm to others. Second, the point is to opt for the system that best prevents the harmful behavior from manifesting (since we should assume that the disorder will tend to accumulate in positions of power). Of course FM capitalism allows for many exploitive traits, but the natural balances within that system does not allow direct harm to others. Let’s not confuse healthy ambition and the desire to profit with clinical psychoses. And let’s not confuse FM capitalism for the system that has no natural balances against such harmful abuse; government.

Since modern USA obviously does not have such a system (because the lack of natural checks has allowed the psychosis to sufficiently permeate government), I think the first order of business is to realize that we American citizens are no less affected than children of an abusive family; and are about as likely to be happy and well adjusted as a child growing up in a family with two violently and sexually abusive parents. I say “realize”, because it is well-known that children of abusive parents can be severely maladjusted (psychotic) and not realize it. So to understand the national problem (of government) fully, one must realize the nature of the generational cycle of abuse. IOW to make sure we don’t become them and/or continue the cycle, we must see and admit what they are. I think with the help of the internet and Ron Paul and threads like this, we are just now starting to do that. The children are finally waking up and realizing that their parents, who they previously loved and worshipped, have been abusing them their entire lives. The next step is to get out of the structure that allowed the abuse to flourish. So even if we retain some learned aggression from our “family history”, the better system will help convert it into a positive.

Those listed traits are officially what they use to determine if somebody is clinically a psychopath, so I don't think we're incorrectly calling people psychopaths. I know the judgment of those traits in an individual is very subjective but the scoring system goes only up to 2 points per trait so it's almost a "yes", "somewhat" or "no" answer. It's just that there are more psychopaths than people are usually aware of. Psychopaths don't have to be convicted criminals.

I believe they do distinguish between psychopaths and socialpaths, but I can't remember where I saw that.

The problem is that most people are sheeps, and these psychopaths are good and motivated at manipulating sheeps. Psychopaths will always take advantage of that.

[YumYum]

It's just that there are more psychopaths than people are usually aware of. Psychopaths don't have to be convicted criminals.

This is the truth. I have two aunts that are textbook psychopaths, so they are more numerous than we think. I believe we would be shocked if we knew the actual number of psychopaths that are in this country. What is sad is that the majority of Americans look up to, and are entertained by psychopaths. Americans like anti-social behavior.


I believe they do distinguish between psychopaths and socialpaths, but I can't remember where I saw that.

As I mentioned earlier, I talked to a psychologist who told me they don't use the term "sociopath" anymore in diagnosing someone with anti-social behavior. A sociopath was considered to be just like a psychopath, but is not violent. But now, the psychiatric community has determined that they are all "psychopaths" because even the ones who seem to be non-violent are very capable of being violent and show absolutely no remorse when they do injury to innocent persons.


The problem is that most people are sheeps, and these psychopaths are good and motivated at manipulating sheeps. Psychopaths will always take advantage of that.

So true, in fact many people in America enjoy being manipulated by psychopaths. One of my favorite lines by Clinton, who is a psychopath, was: "How do you define sex?" America was so entertained by his brilliant, manipulative hair-splitting, they forgave him.

[idirtify]

Those listed traits are officially what they use to determine if somebody is clinically a psychopath, so I don't think we're incorrectly calling people psychopaths. I know the judgment of those traits in an individual is very subjective but the scoring system goes only up to 2 points per trait so it's almost a "yes", "somewhat" or "no" answer. It's just that there are more psychopaths than people are usually aware of. Psychopaths don't have to be convicted criminals.

I believe they do distinguish between psychopaths and socialpaths, but I can't remember where I saw that.

The problem is that most people are sheeps, and these psychopaths are good and motivated at manipulating sheeps. Psychopaths will always take advantage of that.

True, but my main point is that to “take advantage” of people is not necessarily psychotic or abusive (in terms of a rights violation or anything unlibertarian). The whole system of FM enterprise is based on people taking advantage of people. I must make this clear, since the unreasonable fear of free enterprise is very common. There is nothing wrong with ambitious people taking advantage of the desires of adults who are less assertive/intelligent; for example, the former talking the latter into buying something is not necessarily a non-consensual (or pathological) situation.

[idirtify]

...in fact many people in America enjoy being manipulated by psychopaths.

Technically, I’m not sure that “psychopath” would not include both groups: wolves and sheep. The obsession with aggression is not inherently different than the obsession with pain; “sadism” / “masochism”. Both are behaviors learned from early trauma/neglect/abuse. And those pain-based paradigms are reflected in pictures much bigger than the nuclear family, such as our political representatives and our civilization and our evolution. All are filled with trauma and abuse and great suffering. Therefore, it is very likely that we are all “obsessed” (in the technical sense) with pain and suffering; because it is historically and prehistorically very familiar to us. And modern psychology teaches us that we fear less what we know better. That also explains many of the taboos and prejudices against less-well-known pleasures; we fear them more than we do familiar pain. It also explains our attraction to horrible tragedy as entertainment. OK, enough of my armchair psychology.

[Edward777]

Technically, I’m not sure that “psychopath” would not include both groups: wolves and sheep. The obsession with aggression is not inherently different than the obsession with pain; “sadism” / “masochism”. Both are behaviors learned from early trauma/neglect/abuse. And those pain-based paradigms are reflected in pictures much bigger than the nuclear family, such as our political representatives and our civilization and our evolution. All are filled with trauma and abuse and great suffering. Therefore, it is very likely that we are all “obsessed” (in the technical sense) with pain and suffering; because it is historically and prehistorically very familiar to us. And modern psychology teaches us that we fear less what we know better. That also explains many of the taboos and prejudices against less-well-known pleasures; we fear them more than we do familiar pain. It also explains our attraction to horrible tragedy as entertainment. OK, enough of my armchair psychology.

Maybe a better metaphor than sheep and wolves would be butchers and meat.

[Edward777]

Technically, I’m not sure that “psychopath” would not include both groups: wolves and sheep. The obsession with aggression is not inherently different than the obsession with pain; “sadism” / “masochism”. Both are behaviors learned from early trauma/neglect/abuse. And those pain-based paradigms are reflected in pictures much bigger than the nuclear family, such as our political representatives and our civilization and our evolution. All are filled with trauma and abuse and great suffering. Therefore, it is very likely that we are all “obsessed” (in the technical sense) with pain and suffering; because it is historically and prehistorically very familiar to us. And modern psychology teaches us that we fear less what we know better. That also explains many of the taboos and prejudices against less-well-known pleasures; we fear them more than we do familiar pain. It also explains our attraction to horrible tragedy as entertainment. OK, enough of my armchair psychology.

Maybe a better metaphor than sheep and wolves would be butchers and meat.

[idirtify]

Maybe a better metaphor than sheep and wolves would be butchers and meat.

Let me make my point by elaborating on the metaphors. Actually predator/prey metaphors are more appropriate for criminals and/or governments and their victims and less appropriate for sellers and their buyers. The latter would be better represented by symbiotic metaphors, like ants and aphids.

[eproxy100]

This is the truth. I have two aunts that are textbook psychopaths, so they are more numerous than we think. I believe we would be shocked if we knew the actual number of psychopaths that are in this country. What is sad is that the majority of Americans look up to, and are entertained by psychopaths. Americans like anti-social behavior.


I also have very close relatives who are textbook psychopaths.

This is why I think allowing people to vote isn't really a better alternative to a tyranny. Sheeps have a tendency to vote for psychopaths.


True, but my main point is that to “take advantage” of people is not necessarily psychotic or abusive (in terms of a rights violation or anything unlibertarian). The whole system of FM enterprise is based on people taking advantage of people. I must make this clear, since the unreasonable fear of free enterprise is very common. There is nothing wrong with ambitious people taking advantage of the desires of adults who are less assertive/intelligent; for example, the former talking the latter into buying something is not necessarily a non-consensual (or pathological) situation.


Technically, I’m not sure that “psychopath” would not include both groups: wolves and sheep. The obsession with aggression is not inherently different than the obsession with pain; “sadism” / “masochism”. Both are behaviors learned from early trauma/neglect/abuse. And those pain-based paradigms are reflected in pictures much bigger than the nuclear family, such as our political representatives and our civilization and our evolution. All are filled with trauma and abuse and great suffering. Therefore, it is very likely that we are all “obsessed” (in the technical sense) with pain and suffering; because it is historically and prehistorically very familiar to us. And modern psychology teaches us that we fear less what we know better. That also explains many of the taboos and prejudices against less-well-known pleasures; we fear them more than we do familiar pain. It also explains our attraction to horrible tragedy as entertainment. OK, enough of my armchair psychology.

I actually never said anything about the free market. I'm all for free market capitalism.

Please take a quick look at the list of what makes a psychopath so that you can see how sheeps are not clinically psychopaths. People generally use the term psychopath too loosely and therefore don't understand the gravity of the situation regarding psychopaths in society.

[outspoken]

Sociopathy basically means a person devoid of a true conscience and lacks the capacity to have any understanding of empathy. I suggest reading the Sociopath Next Door for a better understanding of how these people operate. It is different than narcissism which is also prevalent because with narcissism, there is is the presence of of conscience but it is masked by ego-centric thinking. We live in a society today that values ego-centric thnking and actions making it harder to pick out the folks amongst us who have no remorse or sense of right and wrong.

[Anti Federalist]

I've always tried to convince others that most of our dear masters are narcissistic megalomaniacs at best, and outright sociopaths at worst. I strongly believe that noble, righteous people would have no interest in dictating the lives of others. Our glorious aristocracy only serves its own glory, not the glory of America. Ron Paul is, as far as I'm concerned, my appointed champion in the defense of liberty. I feel sorry that such a seemingly honorable man must associate with such a viper's nest of corruption on a daily basis.

That ^^^^

[idirtify]

I also have very close relatives who are textbook psychopaths.

This is why I think allowing people to vote isn't really a better alternative to a tyranny. Sheeps have a tendency to vote for psychopaths.





I actually never said anything about the free market. I'm all for free market capitalism.

Please take a quick look at the list of what makes a psychopath so that you can see how sheeps are not clinically psychopaths. People generally use the term psychopath too loosely and therefore don't understand the gravity of the situation regarding psychopaths in society.

You said “there are probably more psychopaths in the banking industry than there are in politics” and “those morally reprehensible (from my perspective) traits are what leads to success in this society”. That strongly implies the free market. And another said, “these are traits that will enable one to rise to power in the corporate world”. Another similarly indicted “all large institutions”. Hence my defense of free enterprise as not being an example of the kind of predatory psychosis that permeates government.

While I’m sure you are generally correct about sheep not being psychopaths, note that I said “technically”. And technically, “psychopath” = any “psychological pathology”. And a masochistic obsession with pain and misery and blind support of power mongers certainly indicate a psychological pathology.

[idirtify]

Sociopathy basically means a person devoid of a true conscience and lacks the capacity to have any understanding of empathy. I suggest reading the Sociopath Next Door for a better understanding of how these people operate. It is different than narcissism which is also prevalent because with narcissism, there is is the presence of of conscience but it is masked by ego-centric thinking. We live in a society today that values ego-centric thnking and actions making it harder to pick out the folks amongst us who have no remorse or sense of right and wrong.

Good points, but that’s all the more reason to focus on the system. Just remember when you say “society” that you are talking about two systems; one that encourages psychopathic (aggressive/predatory) behavior, and another that discourages it. I’m just trying to see to it that the wrong system isn’t indicted (as the culprit).

[eproxy100]

You said “there are probably more psychopaths in the banking industry than there are in politics” and “those morally reprehensible (from my perspective) traits are what leads to success in this society”. That strongly implies the free market. And another said, “these are traits that will enable one to rise to power in the corporate world”. Another similarly indicted “all large institutions”. Hence my defense of free enterprise as not being an example of the kind of predatory psychosis that permeates government.

While I’m sure you are generally correct about sheep not being psychopaths, note that I said “technically”. And technically, “psychopath” = any “psychological pathology”. And a masochistic obsession with pain and misery and blind support of power mongers certainly indicate a psychological pathology.

You're mistaken in thinking that I implied a free market society won't work because of psychopaths. It's probably because somebody else talked about it that you thought I also agreed. Thing is, banks as they are today won't exist in a free market society. If there was no FDIC insuring those deposits and no government that legitimized banks then I bet not many people will trust their gold to such entities.

Please quickly go through the list of what traits define a psychopath so that you'll see blind support of power mongers isn't one of them.

[idirtify]

You're mistaken in thinking that I implied a free market society won't work because of psychopaths. It's probably because somebody else talked about it that you thought I also agreed. Thing is, banks as they are today won't exist in a free market society. If there was no FDIC insuring those deposits and no government that legitimized banks then I bet not many people will trust their gold to such entities.

Please quickly go through the list of what traits define a psychopath so that you'll see blind support of power mongers isn't one of them.

Very good. You did not imply that and you DO understand that it’s government intrusion that takes the “free” out of “free market” and invites psychopaths to apply, and NOT the free market.

And I’m sure you also understand my point about more passive/masochistic types of “psychological pathologies”, despite your repeated reference to the clinical definition of “psychopath”.

[Edward777]

The free market is the ideal form of system. Sure, it might reward the psychopaths, but so would a totalitarian system. Stalin was a psychopath after all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MZCHjGkTPg

The advantage to a free country is that we do have choice -- it just has to have an educated population that knows how to spot manipulation and manipulators.

[idirtify]

The free market is the ideal form of system. Sure, it might reward the psychopaths, but so would a totalitarian system. Stalin was a psychopath after all.


You SEEM to be comparing the two systems, but you keep a safe distance from a direct comparison. The free market is the ideal form of system BECAUSE it doesn’t reward the psychopaths AS MUCH as a totalitarian system (such as government). Look at it this way: where the business model offers the psychopath a stick of gum for sweeping the floor, the government model offers him the whole jar of candy for free. Or: the business model lets him work in the city; the government model gives him the keys to the city. It’s the whole reason why we are here (RPF), advocating what we are advocating and arguing what we are arguing. Government is the inferior system because sooner or later it becomes psychopathic (because it’s MORE inviting to psychopaths).

[Edward777]

You SEEM to be comparing the two systems, but you keep a safe distance from a direct comparison. The free market is the ideal form of system BECAUSE it doesn’t reward the psychopaths AS MUCH as a totalitarian system (such as government). Look at it this way: where the business model offers the psychopath a stick of gum for sweeping the floor, the government model offers him the whole jar of candy for free. Or: the business model lets him work in the city; the government model gives him the keys to the city. It’s the whole reason why we are here (RPF), advocating what we are advocating and arguing what we are arguing. Government is the inferior system because sooner or later it becomes psychopathic (because it’s MORE inviting to psychopaths).

I really like the way you put that metaphor. The truth is, the psychopath exists in all societies and operates differently in each. for instance, in a socialistic parliamentary system like Sweden, where the party controls your career, you get psychopaths who are basically bureaucrats and lack any form of charisma, while the US electorial system rewards the more charismatic psychopath. And our system at least allows one to try to spot such people while the Swedish socialist model relies on a population that disengaged from the workings of the party.

[Edward777]

Interesting article from the UK Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/sep/01/psychopath-workplace-jobs-study

Only problem is, the percentage of psychopaths in the corporate world is obviously much higher than reported in the article.

[WilliamC]

Enlightened self-interest and self-centered are different things. We as humans can hold individualism and individual rights as the highest ideal and be unselfish at the same time.

Yes we can.

+ rep

[WilliamC]

Good thread, lot's of cogent comments and intelligent observations ('cept for mine).

I've posted this several times in other threads and will again because it's an excellent fictional book about this very topic and it's free online and the author is a gold-bug so he seems to have something going for him.

Please read The Truth Machine by James Halperin http://coins.ha.com/ttm/

The technology is close at hand and it seems logical the first place it will be used is in the courtroom.

Imagine a world where, when one swore to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, there was a machine that could 100% detect when you were lying.

If ya'll haven't been keeping up with the field of neurobiology and brain imaging then you may not be aware of how close we are to being able to do this.

[00_Pete]

Child molesting/murdering psychopaths are even better. Take a few nasty pictures of them and you got a great radio-controlled puppet. That puppet can also promote other radio-controlled puppets to positions of power. A few decades of this and you get a political class full of radio-controlled puppets. Just sayin...