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ravedown
06-14-2011, 10:50 AM
ugh, damn frustrating.
i've had friends sending me post-debate articles and so many either aren't trying to understand RP's message or are trying to misrepresent him on purpose. maybe they don't understand the issue or possibly they're too stupid to get it. for example:

And speaking of the Republican agenda item of making life miserable for gay people, all but Santorum (omg he actually came across as not the worst) favor Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. Yes, even the Libertarian idol Ron Paul, who doesn’t believe in gay rights:

PAUL: I would not work to overthrow [DADT]. We have to remember, rights don’t come in groups. We shouldn’t have gay rights. Rights come as individuals. If we would (ph) have this major debate going on, it would be behavior that would count, not the person who belongs to which group.

So yeah, it doesn’t matter if you’re gay or straight, so long as you never act gay. Acting straight is fine because that’s normal.


And an award to Ron Paul for maybe the most stupid! Let’s get a replay of that:

But the Constitution addresses this by saying — literally, it says no theocracy. But it doesn’t talk about church and state.

Apparently Ron Paul doesn’t know the meaning of either theocracy, church, state, or all of the above.


http://skepchick.org/2011/06/gop-presidential-candidates-dont-vote-for-us/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Skepchick+%28Skepchick%29&utm_content=Twitter

CUnknown
06-14-2011, 10:54 AM
The best way to counter the gay-rights thing is to say that he voted for repeal of DADT. He fully supports the rights of gays to serve openly. He also fully support the rights of gays to marry -- assuming they can find a church willing to do it.

dannno
06-14-2011, 11:13 AM
I thought RP meant he wouldn't work to overthrow what Obama did to get rid of DADT?

flightlesskiwi
06-14-2011, 11:21 AM
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html


Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people's allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation's Christian heritage.

i don't care what religion you practice. i don't care if you don't practice any religion (although i would argue that we all have belief in something(s)). as long as you have any sort of moral compass (murder is wrong, for example), you believe in those morals and are able to distinguish right from wrong as an individual. just as the State has no right to legalize morality (separation of church and State), the State has no right to attempt to take away or change morality in people (separation of church and State). individual freedom always trumps the State. or, at least, that was the intent of our Constitution.

dannno
06-14-2011, 11:22 AM
I have contacted her. She probably doesn't need a flood of emails, though.



Hi Skepchick,

I appreciate that you covered Ron Paul in your blog, but you seem to have gotten his position wrong on DADT. He has voted to repeal DADT, so I am sure he meant he didn't want to overthrow Obama's decision to repeal DADT, not that he didn't want to overthrow DADT.

As RP said, it doesn't matter if you are gay in the military, it is your behavior that is important. That simply means the same rules of conduct should apply for straight people as for gay people. If men and women in the military have a code of conduct with regard to sexual activity, then the same rules should apply to sexual activity for gays.

I am a former green/progressive who has adopted Ron Paul's brand of libertarianism, so if you have any questions on any of his positions please feel free to contact me.

Thanks,

xxx



I've never actually identified myself as a progressive, btw, but I did identify as a green libertarian a long time ago, close enough.. I have enough progressive friends and live in an uber progressive enough area to have a good understanding of their positions.

ravedown
06-14-2011, 11:22 AM
i guess it's partly rons faulty for not conveying his point clearly enough for the casual observer. his sound bites can be used against him based on how they are edited. i think he meant he wouldn't overturn the obama version of DADT, but these idiots don't get his main point: that people need to stop identifying themselves as groups and start acting as individuals, judge people on their behavior, not as a part of a collective. i have to make this point to lib friends over and over again and they really seem to struggle with the concept.

flightlesskiwi
06-14-2011, 11:24 AM
I thought RP meant he wouldn't work to overthrow what Obama did to get rid of DADT?

i took that meaning as well. what people FAIL to realize is that these "special interest" laws protect poorly performing and badly behaving individuals. "you can't kick me out-- i suck at my job (a common occurrence in the .mil anyway) but i'm a minority with specials rights and i will pull that card".

flightlesskiwi
06-14-2011, 11:27 AM
i have to make this point to lib friends over and over again and they really seem to struggle with the concept.

i have come to the conclusion that progressives (lib and conservs) are blind, ignorant and blissfully hypocritical in both.

if the State takes away a "right" that they cherish, they don't blame the State, they blame the collective group or individual that made the State take away their "right".

that's just my experience, however.

dannno
06-14-2011, 11:43 AM
Hey I'm trying to embed the youtube for this debate into a blog post of mine, but I can't use youtube.com at work..

Can somebody go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3LkRoHH-kg and copy and paste me the html code for embedding this video and PM it to me?

Chieppa1
06-14-2011, 11:50 AM
They are just stupid. Really, they are. Perfect example: This "progressive" blogger on Twitter trying to be smart. What county are you talking about Dr. Paul? (http://rosyeyes.tumblr.com/post/6522908769/just-a-reminder-about-ron-paul-what-country-is)

specsaregood
06-14-2011, 12:00 PM
Oh no, that will get taken out of context. ****!
The average person heard Ron say... "we shouldn't have gay rights" and tuned out the rest of his answer.


Matthew Zak and pacelli called it!

specsaregood
06-14-2011, 12:02 PM
Matthew Zak and pacelli called it!

But to be honest, coming off as anti-gay won't exactly hurt him in the Republican primary....as sad as that is.

Chieppa1
06-14-2011, 12:06 PM
95% of nation: collective midset.

dannno
06-14-2011, 12:08 PM
Hey I'm trying to embed the youtube for this debate into a blog post of mine, but I can't use youtube.com at work..

Can somebody go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3LkRoHH-kg and copy and paste me the html code for embedding this video and PM it to me?

c'mon, this will take someone like 10 seconds..

specsaregood
06-14-2011, 12:10 PM
./

Iseek_knowledge
06-14-2011, 12:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3LkRoHH-kg

Iseek_knowledge
06-14-2011, 12:35 PM
Not quite sure if this will work but worth a shot:

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3LkRoHH-kg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3LkRoHH-kg"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3LkRoHH-kg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="349" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

basically just swapped the URLs with embed code

ravedown
06-14-2011, 12:56 PM
I have contacted her. She probably doesn't need a flood of emails, though.





I've never actually identified myself as a progressive, btw, but I did identify as a green libertarian a long time ago, close enough.. I have enough progressive friends and live in an uber progressive enough area to have a good understanding of their positions.


interested to know if you hear back from this person.