Evangelical vote is up for grabs

[NewEnd]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/magazine/28Evangelicals-t.html?ref=politics

very good article.

It keeps talking like the Evangelical vote could swing democrat. I'd say it would swing Paul first.

Every word of this ten page article screams perfect storm.

[Bison]

They would stay home before it would swing Democrat. Of course it depends how loosely you define "Evangelical". Many will be looking for a third party candidate to vote for.

I myself will be voting for RP in the Primary but will be voting Constitution Party (http://www.constitutionparty.com)in all the local and state elections.

[literatim]

I myself will be voting for RP in the Primary but will be voting Constitution Party (http://www.constitutionparty.com)in all the local and state elections.

Same.

[tfelice]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/magazine/28Evangelicals-t.html?ref=politics

very good article.

It keeps talking like the Evangelical vote could swing democrat. I'd say it would swing Paul first.

Every word of this ten page article screams perfect storm.

Which is why those of us who are Evangelical Christians need to drive two points home to our brothers & sisters in Christ: 1) Ron Paul is the ONLY Evangelical in the race that is a viable candidate (ie has the funds to compete). 2) Ron Paul is the ONLY viable candidate that is strongly pro-life.

If you find someone who is interested in Paul, but is so-so on his foreign policy stance, simply direct them to Augustine's The City of God (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf102.iv.html)

I'll add that I would like to see the CP wait on nominating a Presidential candidate and see whether or not Paul gets the GOP nomination. If he does they should endorse him. The CP has a decent amount of members, but even more so a good number of people who follow the CP via their mailers but are still registered Republicans myself included)

[unklejman]

Honestly those who are in favor of the occupation in Iraq, like my minister of music brother-in-law will vote for the lesser of two evils. Which to them means the pro-life, anti gay marriage, pro-Iraq occupation candidate.

BUT like I said in my earlier thread, I think people are starting to realize the endlessness of the Iraq occupation and are growing tired.

Swing Democrat? No way. At least not here.

[freelance]

I cannot imagine Evangelicals voting for Hillary, or anyone who should win the Democratic nomination. My bet is that they would rather stay home and throw the election by non-action rather than by direct action. Or, they might just put up a third-party candidate, but they ain't votin' for no Hillary.

[werdd]

wait i thought all evangelicals were supporting mitt romney, and they dont care about his religion, bc he is like pro life and stuff.

[Korey Kaczynski]

Huckabee will get it because he is honorable about Jesus.

[Perry]

I can tell you right now that 75% of this vote will be split between Paul Huck & Thompson.

[literatim]

Maybe some PACs should organize to do radio, TV, and newspaper ads focused towards the value voters. Iowa would be an excellent start.

[NewEnd]

I can tell you right now that 75% of this vote will be split between Paul Huck & Thompson.

Thompson is gone.

[quickmike]

Thompson is gone.

Yep, hes a flatliner. Its gonna be between Paul and Huckleberry.

[Matt Collins]

All we need to do is to print out thousands of copies of the RP statement of faith, and flyer church parking lots on Sunday mornings.





IT'S JUST THAT SIMPLE!




.

[NewEnd]

They are printing christian specific slim jims

[RP4ME]

Huckabee will get it because he is honorable about Jesus.

tell them to look into his record and compare to Paul - he is a liar..not very Christain

[Primbs]

The Christians believe that radical Islam and the war is a big issue. Ron Paul needs to address those issues as well. I think Christians want a President to help preserve our religious heritage against foreign threats.

We can stand up to radical Islam but there are better ways to do it than invading Iraq. Ron Paul has to state this more clearly. Then I think christians will support him.

[tfelice]

All we need to do is to print out thousands of copies of the RP statement of faith, and flyer church parking lots on Sunday mornings.

I would only do this if the cars for a church service were parked on public streets. Otherwise you would be distributing flyers on private property. As a pastor, I know I would not want someone coming on my property and blanketing cars with flyers.

[unklejman]

I would only do this if the cars for a church service were parked on public streets. Otherwise you would be distributing flyers on private property. As a pastor, I know I would not want someone coming on my property and blanketing cars with flyers.

What if that person was a member of the church for 20 years?

[tfelice]

What if that person was a member of the church for 20 years?

Then I would ask the pastor for permission. There's a fine line pastors and churches have to walk when it comes to politics. The rules governing the 501(c)(3) organizations are pretty tough.

[M.Bellmore]

We need some Christian org to create a candidate comparison chart that avoids all those 501 issues? Seems to me one side is the comparison and the other side could be details on some of the issues (Just War theory comes to mind).

[tfelice]

We need some Christian org to create a candidate comparison chart that avoids all those 501 issues? Seems to me one side is the comparison and the other side could be details on some of the issues (Just War theory comes to mind).


Funny, I just hammered out a post on that as a new topic, but the server had a hiccup and I lost it all. If carefully worded, it could be shaped so that Paul is the only candidate that scores 100%. The Just War Doctrine eliminates the other Evangelical, Pro-life, cadidates (Tancredo, Huckabee)

I can't create it (501 issues are likely for me) but I can advise.

[M.Bellmore]

Funny, I just hammered out a post on that as a new topic, but the server had a hiccup and I lost it all. If carefully worded, it could be shaped so that Paul is the only candidate that scores 100%. The Just War Doctrine eliminates the other Evangelical, Pro-life, cadidates (Tancredo, Huckabee)

I can't create it (501 issues are likely for me) but I can advise.

I will try and create something and post it for comments.

[tfelice]

I will try and create something and post it for comments.

PM me if you can remember to do so. Some of these threads get lost

[thehittgirl]

Then I would ask the pastor for permission. There's a fine line pastors and churches have to walk when it comes to politics. The rules governing the 501(c)(3) organizations are pretty tough.

I've been passing DVDs at church out very slowly and very quietly. I average about 3 a week. I'm almost done. I don't want to do more than 3 a week in church. I pass them out after church when we're in the other building eating.

[OptionsTrader]

Evangelical vote is up for grabs

Sounds like an Alan Placa quote :eek:

[LibertyEagle]

I cannot imagine Evangelicals voting for Hillary, or anyone who should win the Democratic nomination. My bet is that they would rather stay home and throw the election by non-action rather than by direct action. Or, they might just put up a third-party candidate, but they ain't votin' for no Hillary.

Exactly.

[M.Bellmore]

PM me if you can remember to do so. Some of these threads get lost


I mark the threads I want to get back to with subscribed threads (under Quick Links)

[M.Bellmore]

Alright, attempt #1 (not sure what happened, sorry about the small font). Need to add info for the dems.

http://a791.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/84/l_fd3888d276431537f616924a06bd7dbe.jpg

[tfelice]

Good start there. I would change "St Augustine" to simply "Augustine" as he is referred to by Evangelicals. It woula also be helpful to have a paragraph on each issue that details the criteria used. Maybe that could be on the reverse side of the pamphlet. For example for abortion you could say something like "has consistently held to a pro-life position in both his private & public life". This makes Thompson a "no" because of his lobbying work.

You may also might want to change some of the issues to make them Christian specific issues. For instance, NAFTA isn't a Christian specific issue, though important nonetheless. You can essentially boil it down to a handful of key issues, approach them all from a Christian perspective and make Paul shine on those.

[M.Bellmore]

Good start there. I would change "St Augustine" to simply "Augustine" as he is referred to by Evangelicals. It woula also be helpful to have a paragraph on each issue that details the criteria used. Maybe that could be on the reverse side of the pamphlet. For example for abortion you could say something like "has consistently held to a pro-life position in both his private & public life". This makes Thompson a "no" because of his lobbying work.

You may also might want to change some of the issues to make them Christian specific issues. For instance, NAFTA isn't a Christian specific issue, though important nonetheless. You can essentially boil it down to a handful of key issues, approach them all from a Christian perspective and make Paul shine on those.

Yeah, I forgot to mention I wanted the back side to issue detail, especially the Just War theory.

Too many issues? Though for Michigan the gun control one is especially important. What key issues are important in the other "first" states (IA,NH,SC,WY,FL) ?

Any additional issues or changes to what is there?

I will need significant graphics help once we settle on the information.

Thanks!

[tfelice]

Yeah, I forgot to mention I wanted the back side to issue detail, especially the Just War theory.

Too many issues? Though for Michigan the gun control one is especially important. What key issues are important in the other "first" states (IA,NH,SC,WY,FL) ?

Any additional issues or changes to what is there?

I will need significant graphics help once we settle on the information.

Thanks!

Regarding graphics, I think someone skilled with Publisher could create this well.

Issues: I checked some of the Christian PAC sites and came up with these that are repeated often: Embryonic Stem Cells, Marriage, Taxes, Judges, Abortion, War, 2 Amend, and Homeschooling

[Corydoras]

What does "marriage fidelity" mean, and how don't the other candidates have it?

[tfelice]

I think he is referring to Paul being with the same wife for 50 years. Not sure why the other candidates don't except Rudy. It's a character issue, a good one mind you, but not needed on this in my opinion.

We need to shape the marriage (ie gay marriage) issue to our benefit. The Evangelical right has been told that they need to support the Federal Marriage Amendment, and that anyone that does not is supporting gay marriage. Of course, no one bothers to read the Amendments, so they don't really know if it is good or bad legislation. Instead all we need to do is shift the focus from the amendment to the Marriage Protection Act which Paul co-sponsored.

[rs3515]

One idea to consider incorporating is that the elimination of income tax is more than just a monetary issue, it is also one of Christian responsibility. Individuals receive funds back from the federal government, but it is their responsibility to do good with those funds by making a positive impact on their families, neighbors, communities, state and world.

[M.Bellmore]

I think he is referring to Paul being with the same wife for 50 years. Not sure why the other candidates don't except Rudy. It's a character issue, a good one mind you, but not needed on this in my opinion.

We need to shape the marriage (ie gay marriage) issue to our benefit. The Evangelical right has been told that they need to support the Federal Marriage Amendment, and that anyone that does not is supporting gay marriage. Of course, no one bothers to read the Amendments, so they don't really know if it is good or bad legislation. Instead all we need to do is shift the focus from the amendment to the Marriage Protection Act which Paul co-sponsored.

Thompson was also divorced. Somehow I wanted to show Rudy's lack of morals & integrity in this area.

[M.Bellmore]

One idea to consider incorporating is that the elimination of income tax is more than just a monetary issue, it is also one of Christian responsibility. Individuals receive funds back from the federal government, but it is their responsibility to do good with those funds by making a positive impact on their families, neighbors, communities, state and world.

Good idea. Can you summarize into a single statement that will fit?

[Ninja Homer]

This is a great article to send or pass out to Christians along with Ron Paul's Statement of Faith:

http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin410.htm

[Ozwest]

I grew up in a Christian upbringing, more strict than most. I studied the Bible from back to front, and am well versed... It is precisely due to the "religious right" that I began to question my faith... The Religion I was taught was meek, forgiving, and peaceful... I am now a content Athiest, who respects Religious freedom, and am tolerent and respectful of those who interpret the Bible as a "guiding light" of genourosity, humility and truth ... The "Christian Right", for the most part, is a gathering of charletons, politicians, and zealots quoting verse and scripture to a congretation of lazy non- inquisitive lambs eagerly manipulated... I respect Ron Paul's genuiness.

[M.Bellmore]

I grew up in a Christian upbringing, more strict than most. I studied the Bible from back to front, and am well versed... It is precisely due to the "religious right" that I began to question my faith... The Religion I was taught was meek, forgiving, and peaceful... I am now a content Athiest, who respects Religious freedom, and am tolerent and respectful of those who interpret the Bible as a "guiding light" of genourosity, humility and truth ... The "Christian Right", for the most part, is a gathering of charletons, politicians, and zealots quoting verse and scripture to a congretation of lazy non- inquisitive lambs eagerly manipulated... I respect Ron Paul's genuiness.


I am begging you guys, don't post this stuff on this thread. We are trying to create something here and this does not really help. This is not a debate thread.

[M.Bellmore]

All you Christians out there, I am asking for your opinions on this chart!

Thanks!

[Primbs]

I think we need a few more weeks for this chart to get some good ideas. There is lots to research to be done.

High taxes can contribute to the decline of traditional family values because both parents have to work to afford a house and pay taxes. In the past, one parent could work and one could stay home to raise the family.

Now we have latchkey children.

Only Ron Paul want to fight to really bring down taxes. Which in turn would provide more stability to the family.

[rs3515]

Good idea. Can you summarize into a single statement that will fit?

Hey there, I'm one of the assistant organizers for the RP Christians Meetup Group and saw the email you sent to solicit feedback. Good idea.

As for the comment I made, I was thinking maybe a new line saying something like, "Supports smaller government, which enables greater local tithing".

[M.Bellmore]

I think we need a few more weeks for this chart to get some good ideas. There is lots to research to be done.

High taxes can contribute to the decline of traditional family values because both parents have to work to afford a house and pay taxes. In the past, one parent could work and one could stay home to raise the family.

Now we have latchkey children.

Only Ron Paul want to fight to really bring down taxes. Which in turn would provide more stability to the family.

I don't know about weeks, but I wasn't imagining an overnight success :D
Probably about a week is all we really have. Time is running out!

[ConstitutionGal]

These have already been bought up but, as a Christian, I feel they were important enough to be reiterated:

The Dr. (Pastor) Chuck Baldwin article is FANTATIC. Just FYI: He is the Pastor of the Crossroads Baptist Church in Pensacola, FL - his personal website is www.ChuckBaldwinLive.com :

http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin410.htm

Dr. Paul's stance on getting the FedGov out of 'education' will be especially good as most Christians know that prayer was removed from their local schools due to the federal involvement in the public schools. Also, a great many home-schoolers are of the Christian faith and Dr. Paul's views are already popular with them.

[M.Bellmore]

New chart up for comments.

http://a347.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/14/l_e96dc4a7b3a4202672073efc914e4f62.jpg

[OptionsTrader]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSnuexdIAYE

Nun Supports Ron Paul on Fox : God Bless Sister Rose Marie

[SwooshOU]

Where is the page that that chart is from?

[lynnf]

New chart up for comments.



I think you might have to put a check on Clinton's demonstration of sacredness of marriage since she didn't kick her philandering husband out on his pitoot, unless you have evidence of an affair on her part. there were rumors of her and Vince, but then they were only rumors.


lynn

[M.Bellmore]

I think you might have to put a check on Clinton's demonstration of sacredness of marriage since she didn't kick her philandering husband out on his pitoot, unless you have evidence of an affair on her part. there were rumors of her and Vince, but then they were only rumors.


lynn

Ewwwwwwwwwww! Reminds me of the 'Whos line is it anyway' skit of Satan and the Schoolgirl :D

[Karrl]

How about reversing the columns and putting RP first?

[Anarchrist]

If you put "YES" & "NO" in the boxes instead of leaving most boxes blank the positions would stand out more. The metro Detroit meetup has a "Conservatives for Ron Paul Voter Guide" at http://tinyurl.com/39ofxm that kind of demonstrates what I mean (this is a Word document so clicking the link will open Word).

You may want to consider saying "Christian Just War Theory" instead of Augustine. Many evangelicals may be too stupid to know who Augustine is. Many evangelicals are anti Catholic so if they do know who Augustine is they don't care about his theories. I had one friend state, "Not being Catholic I don't know, or much care how my position, or anyone elses fits into the 'just war' doctrine." This was from a well educated individual and conservative enough that he voted for the Constitution Party candidate in 2000.

The average american evangelical seems to be a murderous warmongering unbiblical fool that greatly supports the Iraq war. Consider stating "Supports Christian Just War Theory" and drop the "which would not condone the Iraq War".

"Supporting Christian homeschool . . . " should say "Supports Christian homeschool . . . " All other entries start with words like Supports, Demonstrates, Opposes. Supporting is a change in tense from all the other points. Using "Supports" would be consistent and flow better. You could also make the sentence a little less wordy by phrasing it like, "Supports private and home school families by eliminating the Dept. of Education and its interference." You could even end the sentence after Education.

If we found out how much Huckabee spent in his campaigns for governor, you might be able to switch his yes to a no for "Doesn't receive millions . . . "

(Technically Huckabee isn't "vehemently" pro-life since he believes in unjust war and bombing civilians, but that's probably too technical for the average evangelical.)

grace & peace,
dave

[M.Bellmore]

How about reversing the columns and putting RP first?

I'm not an expert on visual presentation. Is it better to put RP first, in the center, or last?

Opinions on yes/no vs. checkboxes and blanks?

Thanks!

[Anarchrist]

Is it better to put RP first, in the center, or last?
Opinions on yes/no vs. checkboxes and blanks?

Definitely not center. The Conservatives for Ron Paul Voter Guide I linked above has Paul last and that looks good, but it only compares four candidates. With a larger number of candidates, it may be better first.

I just noticed the list doesn't include McCain. He's still a contender and probably will be for quite a while.

The blank spaces makes it appear like an unfinished worksheet to me. Especially with the current key. The key says a white box with a check means he agrees, an empty white box means he disagrees and ?? are flip-flops. Yet the grid leaves the space blank instead of having an empty white box for a disagrees. If you want to stick with checkmarks, I'd suggest taking the check out of the white box and just using a check mark. Make the check larger and bolder. Then use a dash for no. The checkmark in the white box is too busy of a symbol.

grace & peace,
dave