Mixed Response To Ron Paul At Flagstaff Tea Party

[Dorfsmith]

A brief overview of my experience at a local tea party meeting:

http://flagliberty.wordpress.com/2011/06/07/mixed-response-to-ron-paul-at-flagstaff-tea-party/

[libertybrewcity]

wow, sounds like that person is incompetent. did they hand them out to everyone?

[Dorfsmith]

No, she handed it to one of the people running the meeting and he handed it to me.

[Paul Or Nothing II]

Again, it needs to be conveyed to Ron (where's Collins :))that he needs to spend more time on EXPLAINING the states rights when it comes to drugs, prostitution, abortion, gay-marriage, etc; just making a passing remark about states rights doesn't do it, he needs to be more DETAILED & SPECIFIC which'd actually win him more supporters rather than losing them as may be happening right now with all this misinformation.

[parocks]

constitutionally limited government - The Constitution places limits on the activities of the Federal Government. The Federal Government has for many years been ignoring these Constitutional restraints. It's time to start moving back towards a Federal Government limited by the Constitution.


Again, it needs to be conveyed to Ron (where's Collins :))that he needs to spend more time on EXPLAINING the states rights when it comes to drugs, prostitution, abortion, gay-marriage, etc; just making a passing remark about states rights doesn't do it, he needs to be more DETAILED & SPECIFIC which'd actually win him more supporters rather than losing them as may be happening right now with all this misinformation.

[Paulistinian]

bumping this for residents of Flagstaff.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

organize a constitution rally/class and invite speakers that can thoroughly and concisely explain the document...

[Koz]

What does delegalizing marriage even mean? Dr. Paul says the govt. should be out of marriage altogether.

Clearly the person is misinformed. They're probably voting for Santorium.

[angelatc]

I think we have to stop believing that some people just don't understand.

Its hard to discuss those issues with somebody won won't even look you in the eye, but this time around I'm just owning those positions. I just smile (always smile!) and say I used to feel that way, but things have become so bad that I changed my mind and decided that no candidate is perfect, but if I have to choose between a candidate who puts socialism in his platform, and candidate who leans libertarian, I'll pick libertarian.

If they don't walk away, I point out about 5 things they agree on, and also remind them that the country won't ever be libertarian, because we have a Congress and that at best, Ron Paul would be an anchor against the pervasive drift to the left.

[Jeffersonian2012]

We are up against some major sheep. I was just talking to someone on Facebook about drug testing. They believed that we should drug test everyone and so I explained how it's unconstitutional and violates your rights. Then they used the "well you have nothing to worry about if your clean" argument. Now this is the scary part. I told him that that's fine then I will just set up cameras in your house and watch your every move. He said to go ahead! Some people are just rediculous and don't care about their rights. They deserve what's coming to them if they dont vote for Ron.

[sailingaway]

This is as far as I am concerned a couple of state prolife groups that want to keep the ISSUE alive to keep their donations coming in rather than address it state by state where they might actually make headway. Many babies are being aborted in Texas and Tennessee who would be living now if these people didn't push this meme and that is the proper response. They will say no, look at "Mommy" in Rand's campaign, but people who are pro life know some want state rights and some want to address it nationally. It is unfortunately kind of like earmarks in that many neither understand nor appreciate the procedural protections Ron is trying to defend.

I think the Kokesh code pink thing is getting legs, much as I find it absurd. Essentially between K being a host on a Russian subsidiary station, his dancing with code pink and his other activism some of which has been more targetted than others, they have come up with a smear piece that is part about Russia, part about Code Pink, tied around K's neck and then tossed at Ron. And it is raising a huge amount of vitriol amongst people who are calling Ron a traitor and a communist which to you and me would be absolutely hilarious if it weren't during an election, but it is.

[angelatc]

This is as far as I am concerned a couple of state prolife groups that want to keep the ISSUE alive to keep their donations coming in rather than address it state by state where they might actually make headway. Many babies are being aborted in Texas and Tennessee who would be living now if these people didn't push this meme and that is the proper response. They will say no, look at "Mommy" in Rand's campaign, but people who are pro life know some want state rights and some want to address it nationally. It is unfortunately kind of like earmarks in that many neither understand nor appreciate the procedural protections Ron is trying to defend.

I think the Kokesh code pink thing is getting legs, much as I find it absurd. Essentially between K being a host on a Russian subsidiary station, his dancing with code pink and his other activism some of which has been more targetted than others, they have come up with a smear piece that is part about Russia, part about Code Pink, tied around K's neck and then tossed at Ron. And it is raising a huge amount of vitriol amongst people who are calling Ron a traitor and a communist which to you and me would be absolutely hilarious if it weren't during an election, but it is.

The Kokesh Code pink thing isn't new. It was all over NM when he ran for office there. It worked then, so there's no reason to think it wont work now.

[sailingaway]

The Kokesh Code pink thing isn't new. It was all over NM when he ran for office there. It worked then, so there's no reason to think it wont work now.

It wasn't tied around Ron's neck then, although a certain segment tried to tie it around Rand's. But now K works for a Russian subsidiary and the dance at the memorial received a lot of media this last week and weekend while polls were being taken. And because of the election, the smear pieces about it are getting much more traction. That is what is new.

[speciallyblend]

the gop deserves obama

[Travlyr]

I think the Kokesh code pink thing is getting legs, much as I find it absurd. Essentially between K being a host on a Russian subsidiary station, his dancing with code pink and his other activism some of which has been more targetted than others, they have come up with a smear piece that is part about Russia, part about Code Pink, tied around K's neck and then tossed at Ron. And it is raising a huge amount of vitriol amongst people who are calling Ron a traitor and a communist which to you and me would be absolutely hilarious if it weren't during an election, but it is.

The fact is that America is a Marxist nation and we have been since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. The Income Tax, The Educational System, Property Rights, Merchantilism, etc. That is what we are working to change. They have turned it around on us, we must turn it right back around on them. We hold the truth.

[zert]

“Ron Paul also:

Supports legalizing drugs.

Supports abortion being legal.

Supports prostitution.

Supports delegalizing marriage.

I support states’ rights–but these things need to be national laws for consistency between states. I find Ron Paul immoral. Our founders would roll over in their graves to see these supported.”

These are the same points which the media continues to bring up, and these are the points which turn a lot of people off from Ron Paul. Drugs, prostitution, and abortion are intrinsically bad; and it is easy for Ron Paul's opponents to demonize him by saying that he is for these things. Most candidates don't described their position on everything because it allows them to be slippery, and keeps potential fodder for attacks away from their opponents. Ron Paul is very clear about his position on everything, and this clarity is often warped by his opponents. It is important to clarify his position on these issues.

[Travlyr]

It is important to clarify his position on these issues.

Good points. One way to do it is buy some "Liberty Defined" books and get people to read his positions first hand.

[LibertyEagle]

//

[LibertyEagle]

These are the same points which the media continues to bring up, and these are the points which turn a lot of people off from Ron Paul. Drugs, prostitution, and abortion are intrinsically bad; and it is easy for Ron Paul's opponents to demonize him by saying that he is for these things. Most candidates don't described their position on everything because it allows them to be slippery, and keeps potential fodder for attacks away from their opponents. Ron Paul is very clear about his position on everything, and this clarity is often warped by his opponents. It is important to clarify his position on these issues.
No, he's not. THAT is the problem! People have a totally wrong impression of his stance on getting bin Laden and also the heroin deal. They have a wrong impression because of Ron. No one else. It's not the media's fault. It is Ron's fault.

Either he start preparing for these things and figure out how to explain his stances so that most Republican voters can understand his positions, or it's really all over. People are ready and willing to help him. All he has to do is take it. The decision is up to him.

And yes, I am frustrated. I am frustrated with Ron. I am frustrated that Kokesh did what he did. Just, dang it all.

[RonPaul101.com]

Good points. One way to do it is buy some "Liberty Defined" books and get people to read his positions first hand.

I think its a lot easier to deflect these questions about drugs, et al, instead of banking on the ability to educate every American voter. We need to stop giving the media cannon fodder to use in scaring social conservatives.

[RonPaul101.com]

A quote from the article, "I hate to say it but this is the mentality we’re up against. We’re going to need all the help we can get combating the lies, smears and attacks from those who hate liberty."

Let's begin with taking away the ammo in which they use to fire upon us. Again, we can't educate the entire country of voters. To our credit, I believe that most Ron Paul supporters of are above average intelligence, and to our disadvantage it takes intelligence to learn the truth behind these concepts of liberty. So its not just a matter of some voters not wanting to listen, its also a matter not having the ability to understand; but that doesn't make Ron Paul a bad choice of President for their values.

When Ron Paul says in a debate, "if we legalize heroin tomorrow, is everyone is going use heroin? How many people here would use heroin if it were legal?” this scares social conservatives. I think he should have deflected and said something like, 'Take for example alcohol. We have dangers in society due to alcohol but none of them were lessened by prohibition, and in fact prohibition created more crime and violence on top of the constant dangers associated with alcohol. Does anyone here think prohibition should be reinstituted? No. So why then is having the federal government decide the laws on, say marijuana, going to create less crime and violence. Its doesn't, and it costs this country money and resources better spent.... {segway off to the economy}'

[angelatc]

It wasn't tied around Ron's neck then, although a certain segment tried to tie it around Rand's. But now K works for a Russian subsidiary and the dance at the memorial received a lot of media this last week and weekend while polls were being taken. And because of the election, the smear pieces about it are getting much more traction. That is what is new.

Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I love Adam, and the fire that he brings. But I knew that the RT contract was going to add fuel to the fire of those big war types. I'd like to see Adam intentionally distance himself from Ron, but I'm not sure how he could even do that. Ron Paul didn't endorse, or even comment AFAIK, on the Jefferson Dance party.

The Monticello People did, but nobody is talking about that.

The other thing to remember is that we spend too much time on the internet. I can pretty much promise you that nobody who sits on the local GOP board knows who Adam Kokesh is. And finally, when we talk about this, and "defend" Adam on Republican forums, we're only adding fuel to the fire.

http://redstateeclectic.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452719d69e20133ef21f8cf970b-800wi

[LibertyEagle]

i think its a lot easier to deflect these questions about drugs, et al, instead of banking on the ability to educate every american voter. We need to stop giving the media cannon fodder to use in scaring social conservatives.

yes!!!! +1

[PaulConventionWV]

The Kokesh Code pink thing isn't new. It was all over NM when he ran for office there. It worked then, so there's no reason to think it wont work now.

Except that Ron is NOT Adam Kokesh... right.

[LibertyEagle]

Except that Ron is NOT Adam Kokesh... right.

Doesn't matter. He spoke at Ron's Rally for the Republic and he endorsed him.

Perception is everything.

[PaulConventionWV]

No, he's not. THAT is the problem! People have a totally wrong impression of his stance on getting bin Laden and also the heroin deal. They have a wrong impression because of Ron. No one else. It's not the media's fault. It is Ron's fault.

Either he start preparing for these things and figure out how to explain his stances so that most Republican voters can understand his positions, or it's really all over. People are ready and willing to help him. All he has to do is take it. The decision is up to him.

And yes, I am frustrated. I am frustrated with Ron. I am frustrated that Kokesh did what he did. Just, dang it all.

I understand your sentiment completely. I am especially annoyed at Kokesh. That demonstration they had at the Memorial ended up looking like a bunch of freaking hippies bouncing all over the place. The Code Pink thing is just dumb as well. I don't blame Ron for all of his missteps in speaking, but the fact that people by into this just makes me that much more saddened and frustrated. However, it's partly our job and partly the campaign's job to dispel this nonsense. We have a lot of time before the primaries, so we had better get to work. Similar things happened in 2007, but Ron's movement still kept growing in numbers throughout the campaign.

[PaulConventionWV]

Doesn't matter. He spoke at Ron's Rally for the Republic and he endorsed him.

Perception is everything.

I was commenting on angelatc's comment that "there's no reason to think it won't work now." I think the distance between Ron and Kokesh is enough to make this argument pretty baseless. It's one thing if it can be tied to a certain person, but another to tie that person to another person and say that person is responsible for the other person's involvement in the original controversy. I don't think Ron needs to answer to that. Also, there's no way the average voter is going to really know what's going on between Kokesh and Ron (since it's nothing, really) so we don't have to educate them on that. This isn't going to become a mainstream issue, is what I'm saying. Racist newsletters always get a good rise out of the public, but this would not be good ammo to bring down Ron.

[sailingaway]

No, he's not. THAT is the problem! People have a totally wrong impression of his stance on getting bin Laden and also the heroin deal. They have a wrong impression because of Ron. No one else. It's not the media's fault. It is Ron's fault.


.

No, it is definitely calculated by media and smear artists, it isn't accidental. Anyone listening to his whole response knows better. But he doesn't focus on making sure he doesn't give a soundbite. He FOCUSES on giving the deepest explanation of the situation he can to the people in the time he is given. That is part of why we love him, but he has to, in campaign season, have a handful of stock phrases that are the FIRST things that come out of his mouth:

drugs -- "There is no one more anti drug use than I am, but our Constitution leaves these issues to the states and we have all seen by now, I think, the danger of allowing the federal government to run roughshod over the rights of states to regulate their own affairs....." then whatever. He can say what he wants, his speaking straight is the point of why he is special, and stands out, but he could FIRST tag on the set line on each of these controversial subjects. They will still spin it, but I think the impression would be better.

[speciallyblend]

lets attack adam kokesh and code pink since they are high up in the gop leadership!! once again the gop will elect obama ,not adam kokesh or code pink!!

[sailingaway]

Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I love Adam, and the fire that he brings. But I knew that the RT contract was going to add fuel to the fire of those big war types. I'd like to see Adam intentionally distance himself from Ron, but I'm not sure how he could even do that. Ron Paul didn't endorse, or even comment AFAIK, on the Jefferson Dance party.

The Monticello People did, but nobody is talking about that.

The other thing to remember is that we spend too much time on the internet. I can pretty much promise you that nobody who sits on the local GOP board knows who Adam Kokesh is. And finally, when we talk about this, and "defend" Adam on Republican forums, we're only adding fuel to the fire.

http://redstateeclectic.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452719d69e20133ef21f8cf970b-800wi

I knew the dance party would too, which is why I refrained from spreading any info about it. In campaign season they will use it all against Ron. It isn't fair to handcuff Adam from his own personal ideas, but it is a fact that his actions will reflect on Ron in the campaign in some people's minds. I pointed out in one forum that the dance party was in DC, Ron works in DC, yet Ron didn't go, so obviously it wasn't his thing. So far, that ended the discussion, on that thread, but I don't know that I convinced anyone.

[Paul Or Nothing II]

I think its a lot easier to deflect these questions about drugs, et al, instead of banking on the ability to educate every American voter. We need to stop giving the media cannon fodder to use in scaring social conservatives.

Again, the question is WHY, why should it be "deflected" when Ron can hit it out of the park by explaining the states rights? This whole idea that he needs to "deflect" it is negative & defensive; he can score BIG with a lot voters if Ron tells them that "under his presidency, Red-states may ban drugs, prostitution, abortion, etc if they want while Blue-states may legalize them if they want".

There's no need to "educate" anyone on anything in this case, they just need to be told by Ron IN SIMPLE TERMS that he won't force it on them & most people would develop a favorable opinion of him on these issues & after that, he won't have to keep "deflecting" it forever, the negativity surrounding these issues will be gone & it'll have become one of his strong points so all he needs to do is state it in simple terms as I have when these issues are brought up rather than just making a passing remark about states rights which almost nobody even notices & then goes on to talk about unrelated random stuff.

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

A brief overview of my experience at a local tea party meeting:

http://flagliberty.wordpress.com/2011/06/07/mixed-response-to-ron-paul-at-flagstaff-tea-party/

Don't let one person discourage you. We probably won't get to 100%. 60% is plenty. Keep up the good effort. That's what's going to win it!