Adding Lithium to Drinking Water Supply "The next Flouride" WTF?

[Razmear]

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/05/22/052211-news-lithium-1-5/

The article is made of Ipad screenshots. Will add other sources as I find them.

http://downloads.thedaily.com/ui-images/2011/05/21/052211-news-lithium-ss.jpg

Same article here, but with many comments:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/liquid-medicine-controversial-call-to-add-lithium-to-drinking-water-for-mental-health/

[Carehn]

WOW. They just flat out admit it now don't they. The least they could do is put some protean powder in it to save us all a little off our food bill.

[Razmear]

Bump for outrage...

[Vessol]

Bump for outrage...

Outrage?

Are you surprised that they would do this?

[Razmear]

Outrage?

Are you surprised that they would do this?

More surprised about this than some folks are about a judge signing a warrant based on a psychic's tip in Texas.

[QueenB4Liberty]

Wow.

[nandnor]

nvm

[kah13176]

imo its for the good. its in public interest to have less crime and psychos running around, so adding lithium to water is appropriate policy course. should be mandated to be added to bottled water too.

NO. No one should be punished until they've actually committed a crime. Maybe we should just all cut off the hands of everyone at birth, then there would surely be less crime as well, right? Force everyone to undergo mind-control experiments conducted by the CIA to make us safer, perhaps?


I've heard lithium, though maybe helpful in treating symptoms (which most neurochemists think is bullshit, but is being pushed by the psychiatry cartel), eventually "sucks away your soul", takes away human emotion, etc. Read side-effects here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_(medication)#Side_effects

One of those side effects included in the list is basically destuction of the thyroid gland, symptoms of which can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothyroidism#Signs_and_symptoms


Basically, money is being stolen from you (taxes) to pay for something that is harmful to you. If you want this voluntarily, that's fine, but doing this through coercion is completely contradictory to what a free society is all about. Hell, using this logic, the PATRIOT Act is "for the good". CIA Project MKULTRA was "for the good", etc.

[pcosmar]

imo its for the good. its in public interest to have less crime and psychos running around, so adding lithium to water is appropriate policy course. should be mandated to be added to bottled water too.

You really need to use some sarcasm tags (like:rolleyes: , /s or something)

Unless you are serious. :eek:

[pcosmar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD64pIsVNIY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD64pIsVNIY


Dr. Caron: These are just a few of the images we've recorded. And you can see, it wasn't what we thought. There's been no war here and no terraforming event. The environment is stable. It's the Pax. The G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate that we added to the air processors. It was supposed to calm the population, weed out aggression. Well, it works. The people here stopped fighting. And then they stopped everything else. They stopped going to work, they stopped breeding, talking, eating. There's 30 million people here, and they all just let themselves die.

[nandnor]

nvm

[kah13176]

You really need to use some sarcasm tags (like:rolleyes: , /s or something)

Unless you are serious. :eek:

I hope he's not; pissed me off enough to write a long reply.

[kah13176]

we have to nip the bud of the criminals in its infancy, its that simple. the reactive punish-as-it-happens policy has been unproductive as we have seen in afghanistan and iraq. hence the necessity of preemptive measures. i dont want to sleep in worry with my rifle under my pillow, better to have peace of mind through these anti crime measures.

Let's kill everyone at birth...that would "nip criminality in the bud". Living free and living in a criminal-free world are incompatible. Plain, simple. Personally, I'd rather live free; neither the government nor anyone else has the moral authority take my freedom away.

[AFPVet]

Does anyone doubt that they have already been adding this—and many other 'compounds' for quite some time? It's more probable that they are just now admitting it to the public.

[pcosmar]

we have to nip the bud of the criminals in its infancy, its that simple. the reactive punish-as-it-happens policy has been unproductive as we have seen in afghanistan and iraq. hence the necessity of preemptive measures. i dont want to sleep in worry with my rifle under my pillow, better to have peace of mind through these anti crime measures.

Fuck off then.
This is not a place to be posting anti-American Bullshit.

:mad:

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Where do they want to do this? It's bad enough we get fluoride in lots of places. Time to protest, methinks. I am sick of this shit. Lithium turns people into zombies.

Could this have something to do with the recent zombie outbreak guidelines?

[pcosmar]

Where do they want to do this? It's bad enough we get fluoride in lots of places. Time to protest, methinks. I am sick of this shit. Lithium turns people into zombies.

Could this have something to do with the recent zombie outbreak guidelines?

http://blogs.cdc.gov/publichealthmatters/2011/05/preparedness-101-zombie-apocalypse

Glad I have a clean well.

[Golding]

Not that I'd put anything past the powers that be who actually decide this sort of thing, but I'd be really surprised if this ever came to fruition. While Lithium is the "gold standard" for medical issues like Bipolar Disorder, it isn't some magic pill for mental disorder across the board. Any arguable benefit from adding Lithium to drinking water (of which there simply seems to be none), the health risks are abundant.

One of the things about Lithium is that it has a narrow therapeutic window. A little bit too little gives no effect, and a little bit too much has serious side effects. Lithium can be responsible for hypothyroidism, Diabetes Insipidus, Ebstein's anomaly in babies exposed during pregnancy, and can lead to seizures and coma. Even if the public looked past the moral implications of doing this sort of thing, as people seemingly tend to do, the medical implications would be inexcusable.

[AFPVet]

Could this have something to do with the recent zombie outbreak guidelines?

Eek! I would still be interested to look at the inventory records at the water plants to see what chemicals they are already putting into the water....

[Freedom 4 all]

Time to invest in a heavy duty water filter.

[kah13176]

Psychiatry is utter bullshit through and through. Cartelized witch doctors.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDlH9sV0lHU&feature=player_embedded

[pcosmar]

Eek! I would still be interested to look at the inventory records at the water plants to see what chemicals they are already putting into the water....

Could explain a lot about the voter base.
:(

And why some think Cain sounds intelligent.
;)

[Byrgen]

There's a little too much conspiratorial nuttiness in this thread for me. I think its a great idea, but it shouldn't be done through government mandate. Water systems are generally run by cities, so there is legitimacy in a democratic decision, on a local level, concerning the standards for public water. No ones forced to participate in or pay for such a service anyway.

[pcosmar]

There's a little too much conspiratorial nuttiness in this thread for me. I think its a great idea,.

Why would you thing mind control is a good idea?

Why would you thing adding dangerous chemicals to a water supply is a good idea?

[hard@work]

There's a little too much conspiratorial nuttiness in this thread for me. I think its a great idea, but it shouldn't be done through government mandate. Water systems are generally run by cities, so there is legitimacy in a democratic decision, on a local level, concerning the standards for public water. No ones forced to participate in or pay for such a service anyway.


You're insane, this idea is insane, and people who have the idea that substances like lithium should be added to a massive system of ingestion are insane. The act is criminal and should be treated as such. If someone wants to ingest lithium let them purchase it at a store that sells it and ingest it. The only thing the public or municipal water supply should provide is potable non-distilled water.

The nuttiness here is clear as water.

[Byrgen]

Firstly, lithium is a harmless element that is already ingested regularly. It occurs naturally in the water supply. The question then arises of what precisely should be in public water, and at what levels. By your arguments, it seems as if its a crime for them to purify the water at all. Or perhaps it should be distilled so as to not have anything in there? That's terrible for drinking. Such standards for water should be decided at a local level. Its this little thing called self determination. What you're suggesting is people cannot go and start their own community, create a water system for public use, and add lithium to their water. That sounds pretty damn anti-liberty to me.

[MisterTickle]

I just want to drink water.. not Lithium, Fluoride, and someones prozac.

[pcosmar]

Firstly, lithium is a harmless element that is already ingested regularly. It occurs naturally in the water supply. The question then arises of what precisely should be in public water, and at what levels. By your arguments, it seems as if its a crime for them to purify the water at all. Or perhaps it should be distilled so as to not have anything in there? That's terrible for drinking. Such standards for water should be decided at a local level. Its this little thing called self determination. What you're suggesting is people cannot go and start their own community, create a water system for public use, and add lithium to their water. That sounds pretty damn anti-liberty to me.

It is hardly harmless, though it does exist in trace amounts.


Why is this medication prescribed?

Lithium is used to treat and prevent episodes of mania (frenzied, abnormally excited mood) in people with bipolar disorder (manic-depressive disorder; a disease that causes episodes of depression, episodes of mania, and other abnormal moods). Lithium is in a class of medications called antimanic agents. It works by decreasing abnormal activity in the brain.

It decreases brain function. Both normal and abnormal. (though who decides what is abnormal?) That is NOT harmless.

And why would a "Liberty Community" want a bunch of brain dead zombies?

And why would anyone want to add it to a water supply since it is NOT needed for any normal functions.

Side effects,
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/lithium-side-effects.html

[Razmear]

This is why I only drink Dr. Pepper straight from the bottle. HFCS FTW :D

[Byrgen]

It is hardly harmless, though it does exist in trace amounts.



It decreases brain function. Both normal and abnormal. (though who decides what is abnormal?) That is NOT harmless.

And why would a "Liberty Community" want a bunch of brain dead zombies?

And why would anyone want to add it to a water supply since it is NOT needed for any normal functions.

Side effects,
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/lithium-side-effects.html

Why would someone want to...
That's an argument I hear a lot but its irrelevant. They should be able to. Perhaps you're looking at lithium the wrong way. I could just as easily say "not taking lithium increases abnormal brain function." Lithium is something you need to consume daily in order to maintain good health. If you consume a lot of it you can have bad side effects, but what would be so bad about boosting the levels up to the upper bounds of whats found naturally? Levels that people are already consuming regularly, and seem to be better off for it?

[PaulConventionWV]

Outrage?

Are you surprised that they would do this?

No, but I'm still outraged.

[PaulConventionWV]

we have to nip the bud of the criminals in its infancy, its that simple. the reactive punish-as-it-happens policy has been unproductive as we have seen in afghanistan and iraq. hence the necessity of preemptive measures. i dont want to sleep in worry with my rifle under my pillow, better to have peace of mind through these anti crime measures.

I am trying to contain my outrage as I type this, but pre-emptive GOVERNMENT action has never done any good. No one should be forced to take something if they don't want to. You can't force your neighbor to do something that you think is "for the common good" against his will, and you certainly can't use government to make him do it. That's the very definition of slavery! Do you even know what you are advocating? You even justified the iraq war! Why are you on these forums if you support the enslavement of people by using tax money to force people to do something they don't want to do, and then you go and support the countless costly wars we have going on? Why do you support Ron Paul and then come here and say this? It doesn't make any sense.

Beside, Lithium has been shown to have terrible side effects. By adding lithium to water, you would be controlling the symptoms of the problem while causing people to deteriorate in health by developing thyroid problems. If you want to make lithium a treatment option in hospitals or whatever, fine, but you can't force everyone in the freaking nation to do something because you think it would be good.

[Anti Federalist]

Eek! I would still be interested to look at the inventory records at the water plants to see what chemicals they are already putting into the water....

Umm, when it's sacks of shit from China, supposedly containing fluoride, turns out "they" don't have a clue what it is...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?235581-Chinese-made-flouride-damages-Mass.-town-s-water-supply-machinery

[Anti Federalist]

I just want to drink water.. not Lithium, Fluoride, and someones prozac.

Not Permitted, Mundane.

[silverhandorder]

I don't understand why people can't just buy Fluoride and Lithium as pills? It is very callous to forcefully medicate the entire population without consent. Every single individual has to make the decision whether they want to intake this.

[Standing Like A Rock]

Sounds a lot like SOMA (from Brave New World) to me.

[Working Poor]

Man there ain't no telling what all may be being done to us. I was out side downtown today and smelled something that started making me feel light headed and kind of numb in my fingers and toes I did start holding my breath and got out of there quick though. So who knows anymore. i can't worry too much about it anymore. Too busy living ya now.

I trust my combined heart and mind pretty well and Jesus too.

[pcosmar]

Why would someone want to...
That's an argument I hear a lot but its irrelevant. They should be able to. Perhaps you're looking at lithium the wrong way. I could just as easily say "not taking lithium increases abnormal brain function." Lithium is something you need to consume daily in order to maintain good health. If you consume a lot of it you can have bad side effects, but what would be so bad about boosting the levels up to the upper bounds of whats found naturally? Levels that people are already consuming regularly, and seem to be better off for it?

Take your Troll shit elsewhere.
Do you think the people on this board are a bunch of ignorant kids?

I have had personal experience with people taking Lithium. It turns a normal person into a zombie.
It is unneeded in humans and though there are trace amounts naturally, it has no useful benefit.

Putting it in the water supply is for one reason and one reason only. To prevent critical thinking.
The only purpose is to inhibit brain function.
and that aside from a host of other side effects.

[PaulConventionWV]

With all due respect, pcosmar, I think you should go easy on him. He's not advocating an all-out injection of the nation's water supply. In practice, he is right that community leaders should have the right to do so, but I doubt anyone would actually want to have that happen in a free market society. He obviously disagrees on the health benefits (or detriments), but his idea of freedom isn't totally out of whack.


Take your Troll shit elsewhere.
Do you think the people on this board are a bunch of ignorant kids?

I have had personal experience with people taking Lithium. It turns a normal person into a zombie.
It is unneeded in humans and though there are trace amounts naturally, it has no useful benefit.

Putting it in the water supply is for one reason and one reason only. To prevent critical thinking.
The only purpose is to inhibit brain function.
and that aside from a host of other side effects.

[pcosmar]

With all due respect, pcosmar, I think you should go easy on him.
Ya Think?

There's a little too much conspiratorial nuttiness in this thread for me. I think its a great idea, but it shouldn't be done through government mandate. Water systems are generally run by cities, so there is legitimacy in a democratic decision, on a local level, concerning the standards for public water. No ones forced to participate in or pay for such a service anyway.

No one is forced? By the 51% that vote for it, everyone is forced to pay for it.
You can not have a home or business without city water and sewage.


Firstly, lithium is a harmless element

Not even close. Unless you consider Uranium a harmless element because it occurs in nature.

[PaulConventionWV]

Ya Think?


No one is forced? By the 51% that vote for it, everyone is forced to pay for it.
You can not have a home or business without city water and sewage.



Not even close. Unless you consider Uranium a harmless element because it occurs in nature.

I disagree with the majority on what he says, too, but I don't think calling him a troll is productive.

[thehungarian]

Evanescence didn't write a song called Lithium because it made them happy, Byrgen.

[pcosmar]

I disagree with the majority on what he says, too, but I don't think calling him a troll is productive.

To be honest,,I didn't.

And I first asked him to clarify. and he did.

I called the crap he was spewing Troll Shit

Take your Troll shit elsewhere.

Thank you very much.

[PaulConventionWV]

To be honest,,I didn't.

And I first asked him to clarify. and he did.

I called the crap he was spewing Troll Shit

Thank you very much.

Whatever, it seems a little disingenuous to say that you weren't calling him a troll when you were clearly attacking him for something of the trollish nature. I think an intelligent discussion would call for a slightly more moderate approach.

[Seraphim]

You are a psychopath.


we have to nip the bud of the criminals in its infancy, its that simple. the reactive punish-as-it-happens policy has been unproductive as we have seen in afghanistan and iraq. hence the necessity of preemptive measures. i dont want to sleep in worry with my rifle under my pillow, better to have peace of mind through these anti crime measures.

[pcosmar]

Whatever, it seems a little disingenuous to say that you weren't calling him a troll when you were clearly attacking him for something of the trollish nature. I think an intelligent discussion would call for a slightly more moderate approach.

I refuse to engage in a Battle of Wits with the unarmed.

And I have been engaging trolls here for 4 years.

[Guitarzan]

I disagree with the majority on what he says, too, but I don't think calling him a troll is productive.


That's something a troll would say.

[pcosmar]

That's something a troll would say.

Or a sock puppet or team member.
They sometimes come in groups. There is a thread on forum dilution somewhere.

There are also Government Trolls. pushing Rightthink.

[devil21]

Time to invest in a heavy duty water filter.

All my water goes through an RO filter before it is consumed. Gets rid of all elements in the water, lithium included.

This measure is simply to slow people down and make them more docile and compliant. They'll need it when the dollar crashes.

[nandnor]

nvm

[kah13176]

social engineering through compulsory supplements may be necessary.

Social engineering NEVER works. Also, ends NEVER justify the means. You can take the utilitarian bullshit elsewhere.

If nothing else, the theft (taxation) that makes this program possible makes it unacceptable by libertarian standards.

[loveshiscountry]

You are a psychopath.
a little lithium will cure that.

[thehungarian]

What do you have to lose? Why would you worry about this? The only ones that lose from this policy are the criminals, and its for the better. Do you know what the situation is in prisons? There is desperate need to strike back at crime, and despite libertarian dogma against government policy, in this case social engineering through compulsory supplements may be necessary.

You are brainwashed. You say there is a "desperate need to strike back at crime" when the Police State is all around us. The feds are doing exactly what you are advocating by waging a war on supposed "criminals" through the war on drugs. Do you support the War on Drugs? It would be consistent for you to support it, seeing as you prefer forced consumption rather than voluntary consumption.

[pcosmar]

What do you have to lose? Why would you worry about this? The only ones that lose from this policy are the criminals, and its for the better. Do you know what the situation is in prisons? There is desperate need to strike back at crime, and despite libertarian dogma against government policy, in this case social engineering through compulsory supplements may be necessary.
Do you have any idea at all what you are talking about? Or are you just babbling?

What do you have to lose?
The ability to think, to react to events in life.
The ability to carry on an intelligent conversation.
A productive society.

You lose all of that and more.

[devil21]

What do you have to lose? Why would you worry about this? The only ones that lose from this policy are the criminals, and its for the better. Do you know what the situation is in prisons? There is desperate need to strike back at crime, and despite libertarian dogma against government policy, in this case social engineering through compulsory supplements may be necessary.

You're delusional or you're just trolling. First, this isn't the forum for group think. It's about individuals and individual choices. Id wager you're the only member here that would gladly take such mandatory supplements. You may not be a cerebral person but I am and I don't need nor want some bureacrat deciding that he can control how much I think....or whether I decide to commit suicide or even whether I decide to commit a crime. Pre-crime isn't allowed in this country. Anybody that wants to "strike" at me can expect me to "strike" back.

I can only assume you're playing devils advocate for the lulz of getting people riled up.

[PaulConventionWV]

What do you have to lose? Why would you worry about this? The only ones that lose from this policy are the criminals, and its for the better. Do you know what the situation is in prisons? There is desperate need to strike back at crime, and despite libertarian dogma against government policy, in this case social engineering through compulsory supplements may be necessary.

We lose our rights to drink whatever kind of water we want, and we have to pay for it. If they can regulate what kind of water we drink, what can't they regulate? What you are calling for is wide-scale invasion of our rights. If you don't follow the constitution, then you're not protecting rights, and someone will eventually take all of them away.

Not to mention lithium is bad for you. You lose your health. Is that so hard for you to understand?

[sevin]

Sounds a lot like SOMA (from Brave New World) to me.

Just what I was thinking. I already have a fluoride filter. I think it would filter out lithium, too, but I'll need to look into it and make sure.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

What do you have to lose? Why would you worry about this? The only ones that lose from this policy are the criminals, and its for the better. Do you know what the situation is in prisons? There is desperate need to strike back at crime, and despite libertarian dogma against government policy, in this case social engineering through compulsory supplements may be necessary.

Uh the problem isn't that, the problem is lithium fries your brain and kidneys.

[parocks]

I don't want the government putting anything in the water. Lithium or Flouride.

But I'm not sure this Lithium is really bad stuff.

There are a lot of people taking expensive patented anti-depressants. Is it possible they're suffering from a Lithium deficiency? Lithium could be part of a natural remedies toolkit. Instead of an energy drink - you have a "uncrazy" drink. Buy it if you want, or not, stop taking antidepressants. Put lithium in there, put 5-HTP in there, L-tryptophan.

[hard@work]

Firstly, lithium is a harmless element that is already ingested regularly. It occurs naturally in the water supply. The question then arises of what precisely should be in public water, and at what levels. By your arguments, it seems as if its a crime for them to purify the water at all. Or perhaps it should be distilled so as to not have anything in there? That's terrible for drinking. Such standards for water should be decided at a local level. Its this little thing called self determination. What you're suggesting is people cannot go and start their own community, create a water system for public use, and add lithium to their water. That sounds pretty damn anti-liberty to me.


I'm saying it should be taken by choice, not by vote. That's pretty much the gold standard in liberty there pal. No one but the criminally insane or vapid would support drugging a populace. It is an insane idea that can only be promoted by the ignorant and madmen.

I'll categorize you as both.

[parocks]

In small doses, Uranium might not be so bad.

And depression could simply be a Lithium deficiency.

SSRIs are used to treat depression. Lithium increases serotonin.

They both work on serotonin.

I would say that in a large number of cases, depression is caused by a Lithium deficiency, and in many other cases, it isn't.

Lithium is found in salt water. If you grow wheatgrass in salt water, and chew on it, you'll get some lithium.




Ya Think?


No one is forced? By the 51% that vote for it, everyone is forced to pay for it.
You can not have a home or business without city water and sewage.



Not even close. Unless you consider Uranium a harmless element because it occurs in nature.

[Vessol]

Any argument for lithium being put into water is invalid because in many cases there is a monopoly of the government over water supply in many localities.

There is no choice.

It saddens me that people are making Utilitarian arguments, Utilitarianism is as evil of a philosophy as it gets.

[parocks]

Interesting:
"back in the 1950's, the soft drink 7UP used to be known as “lithium water” because it contained the mineral that brighten people’s moods"

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=175978749111758&topic=333

[Freedom 4 all]

Utilitarianism is as evil of a philosophy as it gets.

This. A thousand times this. Incidentally, the first thing that made me question my liberal political views was reading the utilitarian Peter Singer. He's supposed to be the foremost authority on utilitarianism but he's clearly incredibly hostile to liberty. First, the guy's a full blown communist, believing we literally OWE India money solely because they are poor. Of course he's no friend of the poor per se as he supports mandatory population control for poor countries. Here's a charming quote on abortion: "The argument that a fetus is not alive] is a resort to a convenient fiction that turns an evidently living being into one that legally is not alive. Instead of accepting such fictions, we should recognise that the fact that a being is human, and alive, does not in itself tell us whether it is wrong to take that being's life." He also happens to support the legality of bestiality for some reason. I read his works and found them horrifying, but the liberals in my philosophy class found in insightful and praised him for "thinking outside the box." That was my first clue I needed a new political philosophy and pronto.

In case you think I'm exaggerating even a little bit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Singer

[pcosmar]

Interesting:
"back in the 1950's, the soft drink 7UP used to be known as “lithium water” because it contained the mineral that brighten people’s moods"


I had never heard it called that. And I have known people who were put on lithium.
It turned them into brainless zombies, unable to distinguish joy from sadness.

I have also seen this in the "expensive Pharmaceuticals" as you call them.
Do you understand what MK-Ultra was about. Mind Control,, on both an individual and mass basis.
The Pharmaceutical and Psychiatric industries were deeply involved in research and experimentation.

This is nothing but an attempt at social control on a broad scale. I can not understand how anyone could be OK with that.
:(

edit; interesting note on "7-UP",
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Up

7 Up was created by Charles Leiper Grigg, who launched his St. Louis-based company The Howdy Corporation in 1920.[1] Grigg came up with the formula for a lemon-lime soft drink in 1929. The product, originally named "Bib-Label Lithiated Lemon-Lime Soda", was launched two weeks before the Wall Street Crash of 1929.[2] It contained lithium citrate, a mood-stabilizing drug, until 1950
That could explain why,,, and why now.

[parocks]

I'm not in favor of the government putting anything in the water. Chlorine is bad for you.

The amount of Lithium recommended is between 1/100 and 1/1000 times less than the zombie level.

It increasingly appears that a Serotonin deficiency, which could be remedied by small amounts of Lithium, is
responsible for much of today's depression. Depression is not treated by attempting to restore normal amounts
of Serotonin - but to screw with brain chemistry to make use of a lesser amount of Serotonin.

If a small amount of Lithium will cure half the cases of depression, there should be further study.

I've seen Prozac turn people into zombies.

And I'm not in favor of the government putting this in water, or forcing people to take this in any way.
But it should be studied, and if it is so effective in increasing Serotonin levels, people should know about it,
and it should be easily available. Put it in 7up again, and people will stop buying antidepressants.

I've studied 5-HTP, and taken 5-HTP, and it certainly did seem to increase my serotonin levels, especially the first time I took it.
L-tryptophan is said to work in a similar way. If lithium can provide a boost in serotonin levels as it's said to do, I think it would be a popular product
for all those people who currently have their serononin's reuptake inhibited, instead of just brought up to normal, healthy levels.

I'm 100% against forced drugging. This is just making available a mineral that should exist in your diet naturally.




I had never heard it called that. And I have known people who were put on lithium.
It turned them into brainless zombies, unable to distinguish joy from sadness.

I have also seen this in the "expensive Pharmaceuticals" as you call them.
Do you understand what MK-Ultra was about. Mind Control,, on both an individual and mass basis.
The Pharmaceutical and Psychiatric industries were deeply involved in research and experimentation.

This is nothing but an attempt at social control on a broad scale. I can not understand how anyone could be OK with that.
:(

edit; interesting note on "7-UP",
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Up

That could explain why,,, and why now.

[PaulConventionWV]

I refuse to engage in a Battle of Wits with the unarmed.

And I have been engaging trolls here for 4 years.

Right, so you would rather hurl meaningless insults at them an deride them instead.

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm not in favor of the government putting anything in the water. Chlorine is bad for you.

The amount of Lithium recommended is between 1/100 and 1/1000 times less than the zombie level.

It increasingly appears that a Serotonin deficiency, which could be remedied by small amounts of Lithium, is
responsible for much of today's depression. Depression is not treated by attempting to restore normal amounts
of Serotonin - but to screw with brain chemistry to make use of a lesser amount of Serotonin.

If a small amount of Lithium will cure half the cases of depression, there should be further study.

I've seen Prozac turn people into zombies.

And I'm not in favor of the government putting this in water, or forcing people to take this in any way.
But it should be studied, and if it is so effective in increasing Serotonin levels, people should know about it,
and it should be easily available. Put it in 7up again, and people will stop buying antidepressants.

I've studied 5-HTP, and taken 5-HTP, and it certainly did seem to increase my serotonin levels, especially the first time I took it.
L-tryptophan is said to work in a similar way. If lithium can provide a boost in serotonin levels as it's said to do, I think it would be a popular product
for all those people who currently have their serononin's reuptake inhibited, instead of just brought up to normal, healthy levels.

I'm 100% against forced drugging. This is just making available a mineral that should exist in your diet naturally.

Reduced serotonin levels is a SYMPTOM. It's not the cause. The body should be able to regulate itself, but adding lithium to fix or suppress a symptom only throws things out of whack and doesn't correct the real problem. There's no daily recommended allowance of lithium. That means it's not an essential trace element as far as I'm concerned.

[parocks]

Serotonin is made up from nutrients, including, apparently, Lithium. If the building blocks are not there, the Serotonin cannot be built.

Many of our current ailments come from nutritional deficiencies. Apparently we have a shortage of Iodine as well.

I see no reason why it shouldn't be in a multi-vitamin. Not in all, but with or without.

There are a lot of mineral suppliments. Lithium is just another mineral. Too much potassium will give you a heart attack.

The pharmaceutical industry is not interested in studying stuff they can't patent. 7up knew the stuff worked, and then the pharmaceutical
industry started giving people 100x the dosage, turned people into zombies, or whatnot, and said "whew, that lithium is dangerous stuff (well, you're
overdosing people with it). Let's start screwing with people's brain chemistry with patentable medicines.

If you could simply increase the amount of Serotonin in the brain by drinking a 7up, and people knew that a 7up would have that effect, people would be drinking 7up.

If there's no daily recommended allowance, it means the research hasn't been done. There is much scientists don't know about how various vitamins and minerals effect the body and brain chemistry.





Reduced serotonin levels is a SYMPTOM. It's not the cause. The body should be able to regulate itself, but adding lithium to fix or suppress a symptom only throws things out of whack and doesn't correct the real problem. There's no daily recommended allowance of lithium. That means it's not an essential trace element as far as I'm concerned.

[PaulConventionWV]

Serotonin is made up from nutrients, including, apparently, Lithium. If the building blocks are not there, the Serotonin cannot be built.

Many of our current ailments come from nutritional deficiencies. Apparently we have a shortage of Iodine as well.

I see no reason why it shouldn't be in a multi-vitamin. Not in all, but with or without.

There are a lot of mineral suppliments. Lithium is just another mineral. Too much potassium will give you a heart attack.

The pharmaceutical industry is not interested in studying stuff they can't patent. 7up knew the stuff worked, and then the pharmaceutical
industry started giving people 100x the dosage, turned people into zombies, or whatnot, and said "whew, that lithium is dangerous stuff (well, you're
overdosing people with it). Let's start screwing with people's brain chemistry with patentable medicines.

If you could simply increase the amount of Serotonin in the brain by drinking a 7up, and people knew that a 7up would have that effect, people would be drinking 7up.

If there's no daily recommended allowance, it means the research hasn't been done. There is much scientists don't know about how various vitamins and minerals effect the body and brain chemistry.

Did not know that. Sounds like a valuable area for research. At any rate, I don't want anyone putting it in my water supply.

[pcosmar]

If there's no daily recommended allowance, it means the research hasn't been done. There is much scientists don't know about how various vitamins and minerals effect the body and brain chemistry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium


Trace amounts of lithium are present in the oceans and in all organisms. The element serves no apparent vital biological function, since animal and plants survive in good health without it.

[pcosmar]

http://naffoundation.org/

http://naffoundation.org/MKULTRA%20Research.htm
Of particular interest is the Hospitals and individuals involved.
None of these have ever been prosecuted and many continue research.

http://www.scribd.com/collections/3026401/Mind-Control-Brainwashing-Manipulation

http://snardfarker.ning.com/forum/topics/liquid-mind-control-adding
http://lvb-research.blogspot.com/2010/10/mk-ultra-20-ssri-drugs-and-mass-mind.html

[Anti Federalist]

As Vessol already noted, the Utilitarian arguments here are very troubling.

It's very simple: government has no right to medicate me and my family without choice and informed consent.

[acptulsa]

It's very simple: government has no right to medicate me and my family without choice and informed consent.

And this doesn't even come under the heading of a decision to be decided democratically. Just because I and everyone I know likes peanut butter doesn't mean we should be forcing those who are deathly allergic to the stuff to eat it. This is unconscionable even where 99 44/100% of the population approves.

[Golding]

It increasingly appears that a Serotonin deficiency, which could be remedied by small amounts of Lithium, is
responsible for much of today's depression. Depression is not treated by attempting to restore normal amounts
of Serotonin - but to screw with brain chemistry to make use of a lesser amount of Serotonin.

If a small amount of Lithium will cure half the cases of depression, there should be further study.Lithium's pharmacological mechanism as a mood stabilizer is not well understood, but your description of it as a Serotonin inducer doesn't really make sense. Lithium doesn't cure depression. It's used to ameliorate the severity of manic episodes as well as depressive episodes. An increased release in Serotonin does not do that, as evidenced by the fact that SSRI's can induce manic episodes in Bipolar patients.

[Anti Federalist]

And this doesn't even come under the heading of a decision to be decided democratically. Just because I and everyone I know likes peanut butter doesn't mean we should be forcing those who are deathly allergic to the stuff to eat it. This is unconscionable even where 99 44/100% of the population approves.

Exactly, you can't even start to hide behind the "democracy" argument on this.

Bizarro World.

[tremendoustie]

Firstly, lithium is a harmless element that is already ingested regularly. It occurs naturally in the water supply. The question then arises of what precisely should be in public water, and at what levels. By your arguments, it seems as if its a crime for them to purify the water at all. Or perhaps it should be distilled so as to not have anything in there? That's terrible for drinking. Such standards for water should be decided at a local level. Its this little thing called self determination. What you're suggesting is people cannot go and start their own community, create a water system for public use, and add lithium to their water. That sounds pretty damn anti-liberty to me.

Are they going to pay for that water system by extortion based on threat of aggressive violence?

Are they going to make it clear to their customers that they're buying lithium enhanced water, and not regular drinking water?

[Anti Federalist]

It's very simple: government has no right to medicate me and my family without choice and informed consent.

And this doesn't even come under the heading of a decision to be decided democratically. Just because I and everyone I know likes peanut butter doesn't mean we should be forcing those who are deathly allergic to the stuff to eat it. This is unconscionable even where 99 44/100% of the population approves.

I'd add to my statement, "against my will" as well.

[parocks]

Agree with do not want in water supply.

Did not know that. Sounds like a valuable area for research. At any rate, I don't want anyone putting it in my water supply.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Does anyone have a feasible way to get untainted water? Poison in the tap water, plastic leeches into bottled water. Feel like I'm screwed either way.

[parocks]

I'm saying further study is needed, I"m not arguing that I'm the biggest expert on the planet on this stuff.

SSRI's don't increase Serotonin, they Inhibit Reuptake.

SSRI's aren't natural, Lithium is.

[parocks]

http://lithiamineralwater01.businesscatalyst.com/id42.htm

[AFPVet]

I'm saying further study is needed, I"m not arguing that I'm the biggest expert on the planet on this stuff.

SSRI's don't increase Serotonin, they Inhibit Reuptake.

SSRI's aren't natural, Lithium is.

Exactly... SSRI's stand for Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors. They are nasty compounds which lead to unnatural behavioral and chemical changes in the brain. I don't think they need to be adding chemicals (naturally occurring or otherwise) to the water. If you want to purchase chemicals and take them in supplementation, that should be up to you... not the state.