Holy Crap Batman! Bachmann makes H U G E move !

[RachelFaith]

Expect a huge coup from Bachmann in the next week or two near or before her main announcement. She just became the most serious front runner after signing a major and I mean major national staffer. Red Alert people. This is not a test.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

wtf.

What the hell are we supposed to do without concrete information? +rep you?

:rolleyes:

[Sola_Fide]

:collins:

[ItsTime]

Does she have a secret billionaire?

[RonPaulFanInGA]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?296378-Is-going-to-implode...-shhhhh

Posters like this are annoying.

[erowe1]

Not sure why the OP didn't name names, but a quick Google news search reveals that it's Ed Rollins.
http://thepage.time.com/2011/06/06/bachmann-taps-rollins/

Yeah, I'd say this is pretty big. I hope RP is paying attention and is ready to put up some money for some serious help from outside his inner circle too.

[LisaNY]

she hired Ed Rollins - it's in politico today

[erowe1]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?296378-Is-going-to-implode...-shhhhh

Posters like this are annoying.

Wait a minute. When did Rachelfaith first appear? Was it around the time Collins left?

[Chester Copperpot]

Expect a huge coup from Bachmann in the next week or two near or before her main announcement. She just became the most serious front runner after signing a major and I mean major national staffer. Red Alert people. This is not a test.

Did you contact Steve Bierfield yet??

[reduen]

Expect a huge coup from Bachmann in the next week or two near or before her main announcement. She just became the most serious front runner after signing a major and I mean major national staffer. Red Alert people. This is not a test.

Would you please start giving those of us who will stick up for you some help? Try not being so vague with your posts... :)

[ItsTime]

He worked for Huckabee. Enough said.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

she hired Ed Rollins - it's in politico today

Damn. This is exactly the move Ron Paul needed to make, to hire a serious and competent person like Ed Rollins to prove he's serious.

Bachmann gets Ed Rollins and we get Jesse Benton. :(

[ItsTime]

Anyone have a list of competent big names that would actually work with Ron Paul? They are not lining up.

[erowe1]

Anyone have a list of competent big names that would actually work with Ron Paul? They are not lining up.

I'd start with Doug Wead, Bay Buchanan, and Chip Saltsman as possibilities. I'm sure there are others.

[LisaNY]

it's funny how a guy that owed over a million in back taxes is now working for a former IRS prosecutor.

I'm also surprised that someone as politically savvy as him would work for bachmann, who has no appeal whatsoever outside of the bible belt (no offense). She has made so many stupid and inflammatory statements which will gain her no independent support whatsoever.

[Brian4Liberty]

:collins:
:collins: :collins:

[angelatc]

wtf.

What the hell are we supposed to do without concrete information? +rep you?

:rolleyes:

I'm telling ya, this is the future Mrs Matt Collins.

[angelatc]

I'd start with Doug Wead, Bay Buchanan, and Chip Saltsman as possibilities. I'm sure there are others.

Pfft - they're all whores. They'd all work for Paul if the money was right. Who he could trust is a different matter though.

[Bruno]

Is rachel ghemmy?

[kylejack]

Anyone have a list of competent big names that would actually work with Ron Paul? They are not lining up.
It's not about ideology, it's about $$$

[erowe1]

Pfft - they're all whores. They'd all work for Paul if the money was right. Who he could trust is a different matter though.

For a hire like this he should be more concerned about how good of a job the person would do helping him win votes than whether or not they would support him without being paid to.

[RachelFaith]

Not sure why the OP didn't name names, but a quick Google news search reveals that it's Ed Rollins.
http://thepage.time.com/2011/06/06/bachmann-taps-rollins/

Yeah, I'd say this is pretty big. I hope RP is paying attention and is ready to put up some money for some serious help from outside his inner circle too.

Ed is big, but the unsaid news is bigger. And I don't care about "geting rep +1" or making friends with people I don't know. I am posting because others read this who do know what is going on and this is a way to share with them while letting the grassroots know that stuff is going on as a courtesy copy.

[Sweman]

Ed is big, but the unsaid news is bigger. And I don't care about posting links or making friends with people I don't know. I am posting because others read this who do know what is going on and this is a way to share with them while letting the grassroots know that stuff is going on as a courtesy copy.

fixed it for you.

[Thomas]

great post :rolleyes:

[rockandrollsouls]

When Bachmann starts dominating in the primary I'm going to shout a giant "I told you so" to those that were satisfied with our same old campaign staff.

Disgusting. If we had the right people we could win.

[PaulConventionWV]

RachelFaith is obviously trolling. Don't pay any attention to her.

[RachelFaith]

When Bachmann starts dominating in the primary I'm going to shout a giant "I told you so" to those that were satisfied with our same old campaign staff.

Disgusting. If we had the right people we could win.

While I won't disagree with you on that point, the very reason I am posting this stuff, is with the hope that it is not too late. It isn't so much about who does what, it is much more about just "doing" the right whats. This isn't that hard. But there is one simple fact of the last 40 years of Presidential politics, no outsider has ever been nominated since Goldwater. Everyone else has hired the former staffers from that campaign, including Reagan. There are only about 4 major players in DC who have the connections needed to truly win. Bachmann's recent pick ups are the signs showing that she isn't going to be a 2nd tier nobody. The battle is in play, and it is Bachmann vs Pawlenty with Romney being the outsider. Paul is not in play and should and could be if only a few changes were made. And made damn soon.

[rockandrollsouls]

I completely agree and I've been screaming at the top of my lungs but no one seems to take it seriously. Unless the staff is "politically pure as snow" there seems to be distaste for it.

I don't care, I just want to win. It's not like Ron is going to be a different man with different positions.


While I won't disagree with you on that point, the very reason I am posting this stuff, is with the hope that it is not too late. It isn't so much about who does what, it is much more about just "doing" the right whats. This isn't that hard. But there is one simple fact of the last 40 years of Presidential politics, no outsider has ever been nominated since Goldwater. Everyone else has hired the former staffers from that campaign, including Reagan. There are only about 4 major players in DC who have the connections needed to truly win. Bachmann's recent pick ups are the signs showing that she isn't going to be a 2nd tier nobody. The battle is in play, and it is Bachmann vs Pawlenty with Romney being the outsider. Paul is not in play and should and could be if only a few changes were made. And made damn soon.

[PaulConventionWV]

When Bachmann starts dominating in the primary I'm going to shout a giant "I told you so" to those that were satisfied with our same old campaign staff.

Disgusting. If we had the right people we could win.

You just don't get it, do you? People aren't piling onto our campaign because a lot of GOP voters don't like Paul. It's not because of our campaign. And if Bachmann wins it won't be the campaign's fault. We could do the best we could and be outperformed, not to mention that people just may not care enough about Paul winning no matter how well we campaign. You keep acting like you know everything. Well step up to the plate and show us how it's done! You're all talk, no walk. Another one of those "armchair quarterbacks" who has to find someone to blame instead of working harder and facing reality.

[low preference guy]

Is RachelFaith Matt Collins?

[FrankRep]

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/12/14/t1home.rollins.gi.jpg


Ed Rollins, Veteran Campaign Hand, Signs Up With Bachmann (http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/06/06/ed-rollins-veteran-campaign-hand-signs-up-with-bachmann/)


Wall Street Journal
June 6, 2011



Ed Rollins, the high-profile political strategist who managed Ronald Reagan’s 1984 re-election landslide, has agreed to run Rep. Michele Bachmann’s campaign in the likely event that she runs for president.

“I’m helping her put together a campaign, if there is one,” Mr. Rollins said in an interview with Washington Wire.

[evilfunnystuff]

I completely agree and I've been screaming at the top of my lungs but no one seems to take it seriously. Unless the staff is "politically pure as snow" there seems to be distaste for it.

I don't care, I just want to win. It's not like Ron is going to be a different man with different positions.

You don't care?... Just want to win?

You are letting your emotions cloud your judgement.

If I was going up against the mob, I dont think I'd hire a protection service that regularly caters to the mob.

[low preference guy]

Would you please start giving those of us who will stick up for you some help? Try not being so vague with your posts... :)

especially when the "scoop" has already been in the news for some time.

[rockandrollsouls]

Wrong. I don't know where you've been since our country's inception, but anyone with a pea-brain knows elections aren't won based on how many people "initially like you."

It's the reason political campaigning is a billion dollar business. It's the reason we have massive advertising campaigns in a number of disciplines, and a number of psychological studies support this.

If you seriously think you lay 10 choices on a table and people pick the one they like most, and it's simple as that, you've got a reality check headed your way.


You just don't get it, do you? People aren't piling onto our campaign because a lot of GOP voters don't like Paul. It's not because of our campaign. And if Bachmann wins it won't be the campaign's fault. We could do the best we could and be outperformed, not to mention that people just may not care enough about Paul winning no matter how well we campaign. You keep acting like you know everything. Well step up to the plate and show us how it's done! You're all talk, no walk. Another one of those "armchair quarterbacks" who has to find someone to blame instead of working harder and facing reality.

[rockandrollsouls]

No, your "faction" allows political dogma to stifle success.

Let's see what I care about more.....having someone head a winning campaign, even if it they suggest Paul tone down the heralding of some of his more "extreme positions" so he can actually get his platform in office where it can do some good.......or be a stubborn, political elitist obsessed with irrelevant details to save face and, once again, have no positive platform in a position of political influence.

Yea, at this point winning is the goal if you want any kind of change, bud.


You don't care?... Just want to win?

You are letting your emotions cloud your judgement.

If I was going up against the mob, I dont think I'd hire a protection service that regularly caters to the mob.

[Tinnuhana]

So to backtrack to the original post (in a way), where did she get the money to hire him?

[Billay]

No, your "faction" allows political dogma to stifle success.

Let's see what I care about more.....having someone head a winning campaign, even if it they suggest Paul tone down the heralding of some of his more "extreme positions" so he can actually get his platform in office where it can do some good.......or be a stubborn, political elitist obsessed with irrelevant details to save face and, once again, have no positive platform in a position of political influence.

Yea, at this point winning is the goal if you want any kind of change, bud.


Don't waste your time trying to make sense on this board most here live in conspiracy land.

[rockandrollsouls]

No comment :rolleyes:. However, from what I've gathered here, it appears if we politically-purify the souls of the campaign staff we'll be "republican" enough to make more people naturally "like" Ron Paul, then people will pile in and we'll win the election!! (sarcasm.)

I'm tellin' ya, I could get a cow to eat a cheeseburger with the proper advertising campaign, if you know what I'm saying. Watch Bachmann take the principle and run with it now. Was polling around, what, 5%? Her numbers have been slowly growing, watch them grow even more now.


Don't waste your time trying to make sense on this board most here live in conspiracy land.

[rockandrollsouls]

It doesn't really matter. When you have someone that great at what he does, he'll pay for himself 10 times over simply by skyrocketing her campaign.


So to backtrack to the original post (in a way), where did she get the money to hire him?

[LisaNY]

Interesting WSJ article on it:


He said his focus for now will be beating the other Republicans in the race, not preparing to take on President Barack Obama.

Bring it Ed!!

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/06/06/ed-rollins-veteran-campaign-hand-signs-up-with-bachmann/

[LibertyEagle]

Guys, one thing. Remember the man who we initially thought was great who was running Rand's campaign? He had political experience and we were all thrilled.

Then, we realized he was a backstabbing SOB and did nothing but hurt Rand's campaign.

Remember?

[anaconda]

Speaking of holy crap I just read here:

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/06/06/ed-rollins-veteran-campaign-hand-signs-up-with-bachmann/

that Bachmann raised $15 million for her most recent U.S. House campaign. Seems almost surreal. Who gave her all of that money and why? That's crushes Rand Paul's donations for his Senate seat.

[RachelFaith]

Is RachelFaith Matt Collins?

WTF is that? Google me fool. I've been on the net posting since 1996 when I got my first PC and AOL in 7th grade. Dumbsh*t.

[RachelFaith]

especially when the "scoop" has already been in the news for some time.

I already posted that this is not the news of which I am speaking. This is the public known. There are internal emails you will never see. But, others have and will. This is an alert for the discussion because of all those who still think she is a lightweight and Romney is the threat. Wake up or shut up.

[RachelFaith]

So to backtrack to the original post (in a way), where did she get the money to hire him?

That is the wrong question. He has money and lists going back decades. There are only 4 big names in this game and he picked her. Pawlenty has Rove. Becki works for Palin and the other guy hasn't surfaced yet. Romney is an outsider.

She will have multi millions because of this and others. She is the pawn of a bunch of serious brokers who have all had power in the White House before and want it back. Badly.

[realtonygoodwin]

So, what is the counter-move?

[RachelFaith]

Don't waste your time trying to make sense on this board most here live in conspiracy land.

Well, I post only because I know who lurks here. I do not post for the punks who are clueless. It's up to them to find reason. It ain't hard.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Rachel,

When you are new to a forum (yes, you joined in 2008, but you haven't been active), it's very poor manners to go around calling well established members names. Especially, after making ridiculous posts like your OP. If it is your opinion that Bachmann is more of a threat than Romney, then say so and present your case. Don't start these "I know something that ya'll don't know so you better do what I say otherwise the world is doomed" bullshit threads.

Present your case and let the rest of us decide. You can't act like that and then expect respect. Respect is earned.

- Nate

[RachelFaith]

Speaking of holy crap I just read here:

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/06/06/ed-rollins-veteran-campaign-hand-signs-up-with-bachmann/

that Bachmann raised $15 million for her most recent U.S. House campaign. Seems almost surreal. Who gave her all of that money and why? That's crushes Rand Paul's donations for his Senate seat.

She will raise so much money so quickly, it will be shocking. She is the new defacto front runner and all efforts need to be there, as Cain explodes.

[RachelFaith]

Rachel,

When you are new to a forum (yes, you joined in 2008, but you haven't been active), it's very poor manners to go around calling well established members names. Especially, after making ridiculous posts like your OP. If it is your opinion that Bachmann is more of a threat than Romney, then say so and present your case. Don't start these "I know something that ya'll don't know so you better do what I say otherwise the world is doomed" bullshit threads.

Present your case and let the rest of us decide. You can't act like that and then expect respect. Respect is earned.

- Nate

I did. I just said so. All that follows is for the morons who think I am someone else or a troll working for another campaign. That is the nonsense. I don't come out wildly shooting. But I do shoot back.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

I did. I just said so. All that follows is for the morons who think I am someone else or a troll working for another campaign. That is the nonsense. I don't come out wildly shooting. But I do shoot back.

yes, ....you just did. after almost 50 posts. Next time, do it on post 1. I'm not trying to harp on you. But realize you aren't winning people over here. And that's what a discussion is for. If people view you as a troll, it won't matter how much insider info you post, you won't be believed.

[low preference guy]

If people view you as a troll, it won't matter how much insider info you post, you won't be believed.

Believed on what? Something big will happen but I won't tell you!

[RachelFaith]

So, what is the counter-move?

Three. First, the campaign needs to engage the Tea Party and fight a little. Second, they do need to get the message tighter, the only thing anyone here is talking about is when Ron was on the radio saying he wouldn't have gone to get Usama. Now, you and I know what he really means, but the other campaigns and radio people are taking it all out of context. Lastly, they need to engage the grassroots and not tell us to shut up, go away and that they know so much better. We have an army, but it sits camped outside the gates waiting. They need to stop being fooling with the money and put it where it counts. I didn't post on that stupid "projects" page for fear the usual suspects would say I was only being negative, but use simple google and check the prices. $1 for each piece of mail? Those two projects alone are jacked up 75% marked up. Postage is 19c per mail in bulk sorted political and about 5c to print. That is a quarter. So where is the other 76 cents per piece going? Some one getting a nice comfy kickback? I could go on, but I won't. I am not trying to make trouble, but wake everyone up before history repeats.

[low preference guy]

Ed is big, but the unsaid news is bigger.

ok, so what position is bigger than campaign manager?

[RachelFaith]

yes, ....you just did. after almost 50 posts. Next time, do it on post 1. I'm not trying to harp on you. But realize you aren't winning people over here. And that's what a discussion is for. If people view you as a troll, it won't matter how much insider info you post, you won't be believed.

I said, I am not trying to make friends, win rep points or even be believed by 25%. Those who are awake will know and see and they can act. The rest have been a lost cause, this isn't the only forum or place on the net and may lovers of liberty have never even noticed this. There are some very good people here. I post for them. And while some may not like insider information which cannot be verified, the whole point of it is to be able to act on things you are not able to know in the first place.

And that point is, when everyone is worried about Romney and buses, and I tell you, he has none and isn't playing in Iowa. Pawlenty is. And then I say forget about Cain his campaign is over, Bachmann is the threat. I mean that so the people who do post, here and elsewhere, and who do google and research will know where to focus. Many of those who will vote in Iowa in 8 months have not made up their minds. This is where we need to be. If the campaign is not doing this, we need to, even if they tell us not to. That is all. Believe it or fail.

[PaulConventionWV]

Wrong. I don't know where you've been since our country's inception, but anyone with a pea-brain knows elections aren't won based on how many people "initially like you."

It's the reason political campaigning is a billion dollar business. It's the reason we have massive advertising campaigns in a number of disciplines, and a number of psychological studies support this.

If you seriously think you lay 10 choices on a table and people pick the one they like most, and it's simple as that, you've got a reality check headed your way.

I guess I have no reason to question you and your infinite campaigning wisdom. ;)

I guess I better take what you say on faith. :/

[RachelFaith]

ok, so what position is bigger than campaign manager?

Bundled contributions and national endorsements. Manager is big, but public. Donors who bundle are not. Endorsements will be public soon. And they will seem to be one after the other like it is spontaneous, and natural. And you will be posting: "Oh no, not another, not so and so". But I tell you now, it is all planned and the list exists. Some will even seem like betrayal to us.

[low preference guy]

Bundled contributions and national endorsements. Manager is big, but public. Donors who bundle are not. Endorsements will be public soon. And they will seem to be one after the other like it is spontaneous, and natural. And you will be posting: "Oh no, not another, not so and so". But I tell you now, it is all planned and the list exists. Some will even seem like betrayal to us.

so you're changing your prediction then. this is what you said in the OP.


Expect a huge coup from Bachmann in the next week or two near or before her main announcement. She just became the most serious front runner after signing a major and I mean major national staffer. Red Alert people. This is not a test.

now you're talking about donations? hmm....

[PaulConventionWV]

Don't waste your time trying to make sense on this board most here live in conspiracy land.

Please tell me why you think it's a given that Paul could have hired Ed if he just asked nicely. It would have taken money, and that is granted the fact that Ed Rollins would even want to do it. That, and there is always the risk that he could accidentally fail to sabotage Paul's campaign. No matter how much you deny it, that is something that has to be taken into account.

You know what, I am done trying to explain to you people that Paul's campaign agenda does not revolve around your view of what he "should" do. You will never see this.

[PaulConventionWV]

Guys, one thing. Remember the man who we initially thought was great who was running Rand's campaign? He had political experience and we were all thrilled.

Then, we realized he was a backstabbing SOB and did nothing but hurt Rand's campaign.

Remember?

I don't remember. Who was it?

[Billay]

Please tell me why you think it's a given that Paul could have hired Ed if he just asked nicely. It would have taken money, and that is granted the fact that Ed Rollins would even want to do it. That, and there is always the risk that he could accidentally fail to sabotage Paul's campaign. No matter how much you deny it, that is something that has to be taken into account.

You know what, I am done trying to explain to you people that Paul's campaign agenda does not revolve around your view of what he "should" do. You will never see this.

I don't think it's a given but I also know it takes more than just moneybombs and grassroots to win.

[rockandrollsouls]

I completely support you and I know the type here. It's nice to know at least some of us are not oblivious to the way the game is played.

And nate, if you're going to call people out, why didn't you do it to RonPaulConventionWV when he posted a thread decrying a large group of supporters? Is it because you agree with his stances? Likely. The moral preaching needs to stop.


I did. I just said so. All that follows is for the morons who think I am someone else or a troll working for another campaign. That is the nonsense. I don't come out wildly shooting. But I do shoot back.

[RachelFaith]

I guess I have no reason to question you and your infinite campaigning wisdom. ;)

I guess I better take what you say on faith. :/

Paul I'd like to tell you what I know about what's going on in your state, but I can't trust that you wouldn't make too much noise about it and ruin things. And I don't want to get anyone in trouble either. You have no idea how Machiavellian this shit is and how is can ruin people's lives. I say what I can that gives plausible deniability and cover for good sources. Sorry if that isn't enough for you. You get to Charleston often?

[rockandrollsouls]

Don't even respond to RonPaulConventionWV.

Talking about sabotage....even if he did intentionally try to sabotage the campaign, I don't think he could miss, forget, or lose nearly as many deadlines or make the number of campaign mistakes PURPOSELY the Benton campaign made in everyday operation.

If our campaign was purposely trying to be ineffective, I'm still not sure we could measure up to the "low stick" set by Benton and his group.


I don't think it's a given but I also know it takes more than just moneybombs and grassroots to win.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

I completely support you and I know the type here. It's nice to know at least some of us are not oblivious to the way the game is played.

And nate, if you're going to call people out, why didn't you do it to RonPaulConventionWV when he posted a thread decrying a large group of supporters? Is it because you agree with his stances? Likely. The moral preaching needs to stop.

Maybe because I wasn't calling Rachel out. Nor have I read RonPaulConventionWV's thread. Nor do I give a shit about people's need to choose sides. What I care about is having a decent forum. I gave some suggestions to Rachel about better ways to present her info.

Sorry, your attempt to draw me into this retard spawning pool is denied.

[PaulConventionWV]

I don't think it's a given but I also know it takes more than just moneybombs and grassroots to win.

I know that, but I'm saying Ron can't just hire whoever he wants. It has to be economically and politically feasible. Have you ever considered that Ron can't just go knocking on his favorite campaigner's door and say "work for me"? Maybe Jesse Benton is the best he could find.

[PaulConventionWV]

I completely support you and I know the type here. It's nice to know at least some of us are not oblivious to the way the game is played.

And nate, if you're going to call people out, why didn't you do it to RonPaulConventionWV when he posted a thread decrying a large group of supporters? Is it because you agree with his stances? Likely. The moral preaching needs to stop.

As Ron would say, "You're demagoguing it!" Stop twisting my words. I didn't decry anyone. I intentionally told you I wasn't pointing any fingers in my OP and yet you continue to spread disinfo about me. I was trying to get people to be more proactive, but you had to go and start flame wars.

[rockandrollsouls]

Completely out of line to "sit" a forum member down like a child and lecture them about behavior. Keep it to yourself.


Maybe because I wasn't calling Rachel out. Nor have I read RonPaulConventionWV's thread. Nor do I give a shit about people's need to choose sides. What I care about is having a decent forum. I gave some suggestions to Rachel about better ways to present her info.

Sorry, your attempt to draw me into this retard spawning pool is denied.

[PaulConventionWV]

Paul I'd like to tell you what I know about what's going on in your state, but I can't trust that you wouldn't make too much noise about it and ruin things. And I don't want to get anyone in trouble either. You have no idea how Machiavellian this shit is and how is can ruin people's lives. I say what I can that gives plausible deniability and cover for good sources. Sorry if that isn't enough for you. You get to Charleston often?

I was a delegate in Charleston in 2008. If you have something to tell me, I am willing to listen, but I don't want rumors if you can't back them up.

PM me if you want to tell me. I would never try to endanger Ron's chances, so you can trust me if what you say is legit.

[rockandrollsouls]

Once again, someone starts a valid thread with viable information and a heads-up strategy and the forum Nazi's that like to argue over particulars derail it. :rolleyes:

[rockandrollsouls]

You're some 20 year old kid in college. I wouldn't tell you a damned thing, particularly considering you're not willing to change anything about the campaign and you've been on a rant about anyone who wishes to.

[HarryBrowneLives]

Well, despite the flamage ... Here's to hoping ole ED demanded a $2M salary up front:)

[PaulConventionWV]

You're some 20 year old kid in college. I wouldn't tell you a damned thing, particularly considering you're not willing to change anything about the campaign and you've been on a rant about anyone who wishes to.

You're twisting my words again. I never said the campaign was flawless. If I see reason to make serious upheavals in the structure, then I'm all for it, but it seems a little more practical to me to be proactive and deal with what we have. That is, unless you are actually willing to tell me something I don't know.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Completely out of line to "sit" a forum member down like a child and lecture them about behavior. Keep it to yourself.

This coming from someone who make this their signature....


Beware of these Obama supporters: ProBlue33, newbitech, libertarian4321, Kade, Electronicmajji, SeanEdwards,

...please.

[rockandrollsouls]

Among them, which are still among us? And Libertarian4321 did vote for Obama...

Point being, I knew in 2008 who would flake and who had a clue on how to win and who didn't and I do now and others do, too, and you feel the need to lecture them about forum etiquette. Un-freaking-believable.


This coming from someone who make this their signature....



...please.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Among them, which are still among us? And Libertarian4321 did vote for Obama...

Point being, I knew in 2008 who would flake and who had a clue on how to win and who didn't and I do now and others do, too, and you feel the need to lecture them about forum etiquette. Un-freaking-believable.

You're GodDamned right!

If these people know so much about winning, then I wish for fuck sake that they would want to dispense that knowledge to as many people as possible in the Liberty Movement. If you're a dick, no one will listen! How hard is that to understand?!

And I've never gone after Rachel. I thought her OP was silly, in the same vain as the secret billionaire, etc. That kinda crap doesn't win shit. If there is real info, share it. If you only want certain people to know, PM them.

I mean this whole thread proves my fucking point. Yet you are blindly defending someone against a NON-ATTACKER!

Jesus.

[jware]

Once again, someone starts a valid thread with viable information and a heads-up strategy and the forum Nazi's that like to argue over particulars derail it. :rolleyes:

Viable information? They are sensationalist rumors that have no evidence backing them up. We're just supposed to take her word for it that they're true??? Apparently she has insider info on Bachmann's campaign, Cain's campaign, and private bus companies of all things. Yet she hasn't posted a single shred of evidence. Why should we believe her?

[rockandrollsouls]

Not even reading your posts, Nate.

Typical of you and a good portion of other forum members. Very quick to jump on anyone that wants to make changes conducive to winning, yet you guys won't go after the biggest roadblocks for success; the campaign, the establishment, etc. You think donating money and putting up signs brings change and it doesn't. You spend a large portion of time and energy arguing with fellow supporters like me, or Rachel, or a statistically insignificant portion of the population like hyper liberals and wonder why nothing ever changes.

The only thing is we point it out to you guys and you just keep doing the same thing.

When are you going to learn to let things go and stop keeping a protectionist position on this campaign like it's some holy, savior, sinless entity that can't be contaminated? That's why we don't bloody win, and I'm absolutely sick of it.

Get off my back and get off anyone else that posts and let them say what they have to say. No one needs your 2 cents at every corner. No one wants it and no one asked for it. Of course, I'm sure you won't listen to this and you'll come back at me with another ridiculous response.

Just look who derailed this thread. You, PaulConventionWV, and the typical people that always nit-pick and can't just keep their mouths shut and listen to something that could save this primary for us.

[BucksforPaul]

It's obvious to anyone paying attention that some people are bitter that the official campaign did not hire them. Their main goal is to make money which failed when the grassroots questioned their scheme to fleece true liberty lovers.

[RachelFaith]

Well, despite the flamage ... Here's to hoping ole ED demanded a $2M salary up front:)

Whatever they demand, they will raise and they believe they can win, because all of them have... at least once before.

[rockandrollsouls]

Look at what these monster campaigns have done in the past. Don't take their track record or their connections with a grain of salt. You don't understand. It's not Cain, Pawlenty, and Bachmann and Palin. It's Rove. It's Rollins. It's the same group of people who have been guiding public policy in America for decades.

Somehow, you think this time will be different? That these guys don't have the influence they once did? Wouldn't it be nice if the underdog campaign could fight on a square playing field with the big guys? Reality check; it's not like that, so realize what these guys have done, how they did, and what they are capable of doing. History repeats itself.


Viable information? They are sensationalist rumors that have no evidence backing them up. We're just supposed to take her word for it that they're true??? Apparently she has insider info on Bachmann's campaign, Cain's campaign, and private bus companies of all things. Yet she hasn't posted a single shred of evidence. Why should we believe her?

[Brian4Liberty]

...

[rockandrollsouls]

Yup, these campaigns make some big money and are involved in some big bucks but they win. 100 grand in their hands is equivalent to 2 million in ours.


It's obvious to anyone paying attention that some people are bitter that the official campaign did not hire them. Their main goal is to make money which failed when the grassroots questioned their scheme to fleece true liberty lovers.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Not even reading your posts, Nate.


cool.

[LibertyEagle]

I don't remember. Who was it?

I don't remember his name or I would have listed it. But, he left towards the end. My point was that simply hiring someone with experience, doesn't necessarily equate to winning a campaign. In this guy's case, my understanding is that he did much more harm than good.

There are a lot of posts about him in the Rand Paul subforum, if you're interested.

[RachelFaith]

I know that, but I'm saying Ron can't just hire whoever he wants. It has to be economically and politically feasible. Have you ever considered that Ron can't just go knocking on his favorite campaigner's door and say "work for me"? Maybe Jesse Benton is the best he could find.

This may not be popular either, but I can tell you Ron isn't aware of any of what is going on. He is in Congress and goes where they tell him and says whatever his heart wishes to say at that time. And it isn't about who the candidate can find, it is about one of the big dogs deciding they can make it work for someone.

It's also why Huckabee did not run, it had nothing to do with Jesus telling him not to. They told him, they couldn't do it, and left him. Polls be damned. Media too. This is about the most powerful person on earth and simply put, the people around Ron not only aren't ready from prime time, they totally disrespect those who are and could make deals happen. It is arrogance to the extreme.

Remember this: You're opponents are never as weak or wrong as you say they are, and you are never as good as your own press releases say you are.

[RachelFaith]

Maybe because I wasn't calling Rachel out. Nor have I read RonPaulConventionWV's thread. Nor do I give a shit about people's need to choose sides. What I care about is having a decent forum. I gave some suggestions to Rachel about better ways to present her info.

Sorry, your attempt to draw me into this retard spawning pool is denied.

And I thank you for your thoughtful replies.

[LibertyEagle]

I understand where rockandrollsouls is coming from. Last go round the campaign was flat out horrible, from almost every angle that you looked at it from.

I just think we have to give the new campaign a chance. This is a new election cycle and I plan to do that. What others choose to do is their own business.

[jware]

Look at what these monster campaigns have done in the past. Don't take their track record or their connections with a grain of salt. You don't understand. It's not Cain, Pawlenty, and Bachmann and Palin. It's Rove. It's Rollins. It's the same group of people who have been guiding public policy in America for decades.

Somehow, you think this time will be different? That these guys don't have the influence they once did? Wouldn't it be nice if the underdog campaign could fight on a square playing field with the big guys? Reality check; it's not like that, so realize what these guys have done, how they did, and what they are capable of doing. History repeats itself.

This has nothing to do with my previous post. I didn't say anything about RP's campaign or how effective I think it will be. I'm just wondering why anyone should believe Rachel's info when she provides nothing to back it up. Post some evidence and I'll believe her claims.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

And I thank you for your thoughtful replies.

fwiw, I do not bunch you in with anyone else. No matter how rude someone is in defending you, I won't hold that against you. I respect the fact you have info that the rest of us don't have, which could help the campaign. I just wish we could avoid these flame wars. They seem to follow you around and I don't think it's necessary nor all your fault. :o

Thanks Rachel. :)

[civusamericanus]

^^ +rep Nate-ForLiberty

I do think Bachmann is a threat and after the debate on June 13th it's going to be clear who the real players are in this election... Sure Palin might join in, or she might simply back Bachmann. Giuliani would be brought in to simply be a background laugh track every time Ron Paul spoke... Bachmann and Palin working together at Ames to get Bachmann elected would be serious trouble for us. I concur with the OP, I think Bachmann is potentially our biggest opponent at Ames. On the other hand, I think she is the candidate who will give Ron Paul the greatest respect, and is likely one of our best allies if their is such a thing in the current field albeit, Gary Johnson. Bachmann will likely take Huckabee's 2007-2008 debate position, in other words he wasn't an ass to Ron Paul like the others

As for hiring a high powered political consultant, I'd expect every single candidate to have someone of this caliber to advise them, but who could RP trust that's liberty minded who wouldn't sabotage his campaign?

Now as for the OP... Me thinks I read somewhere she was a political science grad (provides credibility) and now a law student (provides further credibility)... And if I recall correctly knows the difference between a Rockefeller Republican and Goldwater Republican, and sides with Goldwater. Except for being rather excited, brings a lot of good points to the table. Hmmm when did an excited supporter during a campaign become a bad thing.

I'm really getting tired of hearing the "You're either with us or against us" mentality on these boards, it's very neocon-ish.

[RachelFaith]

Look at what these monster campaigns have done in the past. Don't take their track record or their connections with a grain of salt. You don't understand. It's not Cain, Pawlenty, and Bachmann and Palin. It's Rove. It's Rollins. It's the same group of people who have been guiding public policy in America for decades.

Somehow, you think this time will be different? That these guys don't have the influence they once did? Wouldn't it be nice if the underdog campaign could fight on a square playing field with the big guys? Reality check; it's not like that, so realize what these guys have done, how they did, and what they are capable of doing. History repeats itself.

That is the truth. You understand. And you are also right in that these people want to be courted. They look for the serious players who can do two things: Listen and lead. There are 4 major players and about 30 near major players. Then there are the thousands of hacks that work all across the system. Ron Paul has none of the top 4 or top 30. He could. You are right. So sadly.

But, even without them, if executed flawlessly, a win is possible. That is the beauty of America, the grassroots still works and we have the most energetic of them all. but we are told to be silent, to wait, not to do anything crazy. And that is our unpardonable, unmitigated, fatal error. And that so many of the once revolutionary are now content to wait for orders, is disappointing.

[low preference guy]

Remember this: RachelFaith started this thread saying big news about a national staffer was coming, that was not Ed Rollins. Then I asked her what position is bigger than campaign manager? She changed her prediction (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?297063-Holy-Crap-Batman!-Bachmann-makes-H-U-G-E-move-!&p=3324419#post3324419) to something about national endorsements or donations or something.

So I want to play this game too and make a prediction: RachelFaith is full of shit, she posts to stroke her own ego and feel important. Her predictions are a waste of time and she'll be more of a nuisance than an asset to RP's campaign. If you doubt this, you can check in the next few weeks whether her prediction in this OP comes true. That is, whether Michelle Bachmann hires an staffer bigger than Ed Rollins (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?297063-Holy-Crap-Batman!-Bachmann-makes-H-U-G-E-move-!&p=3324407#post3324407).

[rockandrollsouls]

I think by the time we do it will be too late, unfortunately. I honestly believe it's too late now. Look beyond the candidates and at the campaigns. You think Benton stands a snowman's chance in hell against Rove or Rollins? We need to recognize this fact.

Even worse, as Rachel has pointed out, it's not just that the campaign is incompetent. They are quick to write off anyone that can make things happen for Ron, and it is complete and utter arrogance.

I will comment on the Rand thing, though. You have to understand that was a senate race and a different ball game. The guy running it may have had experience, but he's not a "king maker" like Rove or Rollins. There's a stark difference. These are the guys that decide who gets into office....the guy running Rand's campaign was a smaller fish....they aren't even close to being on the same level, or even having the same job for that matter.


I understand where rockandrollsouls is coming from. Last go round the campaign was flat out horrible, from almost every angle that you looked at it from.

I just think we have to give the new campaign a chance. This is a new election cycle and I plan to do that. What others choose to do is their own business.

[rockandrollsouls]

Low, I think you're missing the point. Even if she is wrong, it's a wake up call to view closely the fish we're swimming with. Is another big staffer really going to matter when you have a group of people that has, historically, handpicked presidential candidates?

We don't have one person on staff that has ever run anything successful against any of these guys. And it's not just candidate to candidate....it's how they've advised people in office as well. We have a hard enough time running victories against policy moves they recommend in Congress....and you think Benton Campaign can take 'em on for president?


Remember this: RachelFaith started this thread saying big news about a national staffer was coming, that was not Ed Rollins. Then I asked her what position is bigger than campaign manager? She changed her prediction (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?297063-Holy-Crap-Batman!-Bachmann-makes-H-U-G-E-move-!&p=3324419#post3324419) to something about national endorsements or donations or something.

So I want to play this game too and make a prediction: RachelFaith is full of shit, she posts to stroke her own ego and feel important. Her predictions are a waste of time and she'll be more of a nuisance than an asset to RP's campaign. If you doubt this, you can check in the next few weeks whether her prediction in this OP comes true. That is, whether Michelle Bachmann hires an staffer bigger than Ed Rollins (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?297063-Holy-Crap-Batman!-Bachmann-makes-H-U-G-E-move-!&p=3324407#post3324407).

[RachelFaith]

I do think Bachmann is a threat and after the debate on June 13th it's going to be clear who the real players are in this election... Sure Palin might join in, or she might simply back Bachmann. Giuliani would be brought in to simply be a background laugh track every time Ron Paul spoke... Bachmann and Palin working together at Ames to get Bachmann elected would be serious trouble for us. I concur with the OP, I think Bachmann is potentially our biggest opponent at Ames. On the other hand, I think she is the candidate who will give Ron Paul the greatest respect, and is likely one of our best allies if their is such a thing in the current field albeit, Gary Johnson. Bachmann will likely take Huckabee's 2007-2008 debate position, in other words he wasn't an ass to Ron Paul like the others

As for hiring a high powered political consultant, I'd expect every single candidate to have someone of this caliber to advise them, but who could he trust that's liberty minded who wouldn't sabotage his campaign?

Now as for the OP... Me thinks I read somewhere she was a political science grad (provides credibility) and now a law student (provides further credibility)... And if I recall correctly knows the difference between a Rockefeller Republican and Goldwater Republican, and sides with Goldwater. Except for being rather excited, brings a lot of good points to the table. Hmmm when did an excited supporter during a campaign become a bad thing.

I'm really getting tired of hearing the "You're either with us or against us" mentality on these boards, it's very neocon-ish.

I will say it right here. You are right about the Bachmann Palin problem. Here is the real issue. All the Bachmann people say 100% that Sarah is one of the big names who will come out for Bachmann. OK, so you are right. We expect this. Except that all the Palin people tell us 100% no way that will happen. So, I don't really know enough to say, which is why I didn't make that thread. But, since you said it, I will confirm it. Very very possible that this is part of the deal.

Now, if you are talking about me in that last, I graduated in 2009. I am a lawyer now.

[rockandrollsouls]

You completely miss the point. Once again, one of the group hung up on literal information. You're going to be worrying about every little specific while Rove is anointing his candidate, and then you'll wonder how in the hell we're slipping towards last in the polls.


This has nothing to do with my previous post. I didn't say anything about RP's campaign or how effective I think it will be. I'm just wondering why anyone should believe Rachel's info when she provides nothing to back it up. Post some evidence and I'll believe her claims.

[trey4sports]

I will say it right here. You are right about the Bachmann Palin problem. Here is the real issue. All the Bachmann people say 100% that Sarah is one of the big names who will come out for Bachmann. OK, so you are right. We expect this. Except that all the Palin people tell us 100% no way that will happen. So, I don't really know enough to say, which is why I didn't make that thread. But, since you said it, I will confirm it. Very very possible that this is part of the deal.

Now, if you are talking about me in that last, I graduated in 2009. I am a lawyer now.

Out of curiosity, who are you? How are you connected to the campaign?

[civusamericanus]

I will say it right here. You are right about the Bachmann Palin problem. Here is the real issue. All the Bachmann people say 100% that Sarah is one of the big names who will come out for Bachmann. OK, so you are right. We expect this. Except that all the Palin people tell us 100% no way that will happen. So, I don't really know enough to say, which is why I didn't make that thread. But, since you said it, I will confirm it. Very very possible that this is part of the deal.

Now, if you are talking about me in that last, I graduated in 2009. I am a lawyer now.
Unless Palin is really running, which I doubt, I think Palin's bus tour ends in Iowa in Bachmann's tent. Seems logical for her to stump for Bachmann.

[PaulConventionWV]

Look at what these monster campaigns have done in the past. Don't take their track record or their connections with a grain of salt. You don't understand. It's not Cain, Pawlenty, and Bachmann and Palin. It's Rove. It's Rollins. It's the same group of people who have been guiding public policy in America for decades.

Somehow, you think this time will be different? That these guys don't have the influence they once did? Wouldn't it be nice if the underdog campaign could fight on a square playing field with the big guys? Reality check; it's not like that, so realize what these guys have done, how they did, and what they are capable of doing. History repeats itself.

Rock, if you are serious about all this, then you will at least admit that being an asshole isn't going to make anyone listen to you. That's not very conducive to making people understand. You do understand that word, conducive, don't you? Because sometimes I doubt whether you can really comprehend what people are saying here. Stop being an asshole and people will listen. There's a reason you look like a lunatic right now. If you care, you will be a little more sensible and stop attacking people like me for my college education, my age, and misconstruing what I say. Is this right or isn't it?

[RachelFaith]

Remember this: RachelFaith started this thread saying big news about a national staffer was coming, that was not Ed Rollins. Then I asked her what position is bigger than campaign manager? She changed her prediction (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?297063-Holy-Crap-Batman!-Bachmann-makes-H-U-G-E-move-!&p=3324419#post3324419) to something about national endorsements or donations or something.

So I want to play this game too and make a prediction: RachelFaith is full of shit, she posts to stroke her own ego and feel important. Her predictions are a waste of time and she'll be more of a nuisance than an asset to RP's campaign. If you doubt this, you can check in the next few weeks whether her prediction in this OP comes true. That is, whether Michelle Bachmann hires an staffer bigger than Ed Rollins (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?297063-Holy-Crap-Batman!-Bachmann-makes-H-U-G-E-move-!&p=3324407#post3324407).

I didn't want to post it, because of its status, but since someone else mentioned it, and I am only now replying, that makes a difference. The other big name staffer, supporter, endorser, might be Sarah Palin herself and her consultant Becki Donatelli. If so, that means Bachmann would have 2 of the big 4 and the endorsement of Palin and Huckabee and access to all their lists. If that does not scare the F*** out of you, you are brain dead. Because that means we already have our winner and there is nothing we can do but push issues. And Bachmann is a hawk who feels nothing for the 4th amendment. I am not an attention whore, I could care less what some twerps on a message board think about me. But, some do care and will act. This is for them, not you. Just ignore me, don't comment, and let the thread die if it has no value. But don't make it some petty contest.

[low preference guy]

The other big name staffer, supporter, endorser, might be Sarah Palin herself and her consultant Becki Donatelli.

I see. You are now confirming that you changed your prediction from a national staffer to endorser. That's all I needed to figure out how credible you are.

[RachelFaith]

Out of curiosity, who are you? How are you connected to the campaign?

I already said. I ain't. I am not with any campaign. I have a very nice job, even if it is working for an evil company. I just happen to come from a very well connected family and have many sources. Believe me or not. I said, I don't care. Or do you not believe that either? Whatever.

[RachelFaith]

I see. You are now confirming that you changed your prediction from a national staffer to endorser. That's all I needed to figure out how credible you are.

Mod note: deleted.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

I see. You are now confirming that you changed your prediction from a national staffer to endorser. That's all I needed to figure out how credible you are.

I have you on ignore because you neg rep more than a electron at CERN. :p But this has been worth reading.


Rachel's OP.

Expect a huge coup from Bachmann in the next week or two near or before her main announcement. She just became the most serious front runner after signing a major and I mean major national staffer. Red Alert people. This is not a test.

[low preference guy]

Are you really that obtuse? You don't even see the name I posted? Obviously, because these people have no meaning for you. You are just clueless and a reactionary. Talk about attention seeking.

Dropping big names doesn't distract from the fact that you can't even decide the prediction you want to make.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Are you really that obtuse? You don't even see the name I posted? Obviously, because these people have no meaning for you. You are just clueless and a reactionary. Talk about attention seeking.

You are personally attacking people who disagree with you. That doesn't bode well. It means you have no case.

[RachelFaith]

Unless Palin is really running, which I doubt, I think Palin's bus tour ends in Iowa in Bachmann's tent. Seems logical for her to stump for Bachmann.

That is the one still in the rumor camp. I don't know which camp is lying or just mistaken. Both claim 100% the opposite is true. Here is my guess. Wait for Becki Donatelli to surface. She was McCain and Palin, is she still? Then we have three king makers and three candidates. Does she surface with Bachmann? Game is over, check and mate. I can't tell right now. They are doing a fantastic job of making it too hard to tell.

I can only take a wild guess. And it goes like this: "How could they be jamming us, if they don't know we are coming?" The fact that it is unknown tells me, Bachmann is it, the deal has been made and Palin is taking the hit for the team. But, that is just one little girl's guess. I don't know, like I know what else I have posted.

[RachelFaith]

You are personally attacking people who disagree with you. That doesn't bode well. It means you have no case.

Neither statements are true. I did not attack anyone. I have defended my statements which are being ignored and attacked both by this one person who obviously is looking to make trouble and not reading. And I don't need to have a case, I am not trying to persuade anyone. I made a statement and later a guess. Ignore me, fine, but don't lie and call me a whore and expect I will let that slide. He did. I didn't. The end.

[sailingaway]

I know that, but I'm saying Ron can't just hire whoever he wants. It has to be economically and politically feasible. Have you ever considered that Ron can't just go knocking on his favorite campaigner's door and say "work for me"? Maybe Jesse Benton is the best he could find.

Gary Howard is terrific. And Ron lent him and Jesse to Rand and they did great. I want Ron to have talent and hope he will use Doug Wead, BUT if someone doesn't understand the message they spend a lot of time trying to pretend it is something else, and Ron shines as who he IS.

The people may or may not be ready for substance, there isn't a lot we can do about that, except clear up misinformation, but we need money to do that.

[low preference guy]

Ignore me, fine, but don't lie and call me a whore and expect I will let that slide. He did. I didn't. The end.

I called you a whore? Where?

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Everyone, please don't call any other forum member a whore, ok?

If lowpreferenceguy did call Rachel a whore it wasn't in this thread. However, I wouldn't put it past him.

Rachel, if LPG is harassing you, put him on ignore. I did! :D

[RachelFaith]

Gary Howard is terrific. And Ron lent him and Jesse to Rand and they did great. I want Ron to have talent and hope he will use Doug Wead, BUT if someone doesn't understand the message they spend a lot of time trying to pretend it is something else, and Ron shines as who he IS.

The people may or may not be ready for substance, there isn't a lot we can do about that, except clear up misinformation, but we need money to do that.

The people like Ron and would vote for him, except for one misstep. And this is the only thing those who like him but will not vote for him are saying right now. He didn't think we should have gone after Usama and killed him. Now, I've said, you and I know what he meant and what he would have done, but he got ambushed and taken out of context and this is hugely being beaten on every conversation across the state and it is not being addressed. As if the campaign is saying "how dare they lie" "They are just neocons". Blah, blah, blah. You either correct the record or they bury you with it. We are fighting it one on one, with everyone we can in person, but the campaign is acting like Anthony Weiner in denial that it is a problem. That is something real. And it doesn't take an Ed Rollins, but if someone like that was listened to, they would know how to fix these kinds of things. Instead we preach to the choir and ignore the fire.

[low preference guy]

If lowpreferenceguy did call Rachel a whore it wasn't in this thread. However, I wouldn't put it past him.

Rachel, if LPG is harassing you, put him on ignore. I did! :D

What bullshit. I am not harassing her. I'm pointing out her change in predictions. And I didn't call her a whore. If you didn't whine so much, I would've neg repped this post, but I guess I'm going to wait for the next one.

[rockandrollsouls]

...or you go the traditional route and get a powerhouse campaign that tailors your message for your audience so they do understand it, or even if they don't they want to vote for it.


Gary Howard is terrific. And Ron lent him and Jesse to Rand and they did great. I want Ron to have talent and hope he will use Doug Wead, BUT if someone doesn't understand the message they spend a lot of time trying to pretend it is something else, and Ron shines as who he IS.

The people may or may not be ready for substance, there isn't a lot we can do about that, except clear up misinformation, but we need money to do that.

[rockandrollsouls]

This is exactly what I've been saying! The campaign didn't even wink at correcting the record. They just said "Oh well, it'll pass" and watched our man slip in the polls! It's unreal...it's suicide!


The people like Ron and would vote for him, except for one misstep. And this is the only thing those who like him but will not vote for him are saying right now. He didn't think we should have gone after Usama and killed him. Now, I've said, you and I know what he meant and what he would have done, but he got ambushed and taken out of context and this is hugely being beaten on every conversation across the state and it is not being addressed. As if the campaign is saying "how dare they lie" "They are just neocons". Blah, blah, blah. You either correct the record or they bury you with it. We are fighting it one on one, with everyone we can in person, but the campaign is acting like Anthony Weiner in denial that it is a problem. That is something real. And it doesn't take an Ed Rollins, but if someone like that was listened to, they would know how to fix these kinds of things. Instead we preach to the choir and ignore the fire.

[RachelFaith]

What bullshit. I am not harassing her. I'm pointing out her change in predictions. And I didn't call her a whore. If you didn't whine so much, I would've neg repped this post, but I guess I'm going to wait for the next one.

Sorry, I got confused over which post called me an attention whore. Since you and two other people were also accusing me of being some Matt dude, and the other guy called me the name and you were still posting after 10 pages I forgot who was who. So, technically, you just falsely accused me and then ignored what I wrote and then accused me of writing something else.

In any case, if wasn't about substance, it was personal and you are obviously keeping it so, as I didn't change my prediction at all. And I predicted more to follow, because I think, aka guess, imagine, that this is planned, based on the evidence and accumulation of the facts I do know and of which I am certain. So, there are facts, predictions and guesses. Sorry if you are truly having trouble between the three. Others did not, and if others did, they didn't kick me to make their point. While fighting with you over nothing, several others and I have exchanged very polite and thoughtful posts. So, it isn't just me in this dance. It takes two to tango. You stop and I will. K?

[RachelFaith]

This is exactly what I've been saying! The campaign didn't even wink at correcting the record. They just said "Oh well, it'll pass" and watched our man slip in the polls! It's unreal...it's suicide!

It isn't just the campaign, although they do have the means and should have the experience to never let something slide, but it is pandemic. There are a great many supporters, here on this site, and elsewhere who used to spin, clarify and engage when the media tried to distort his record or statements. Lately, and I have no idea why, that effort seems to have all but terminated into some sort of self delusion. And it's not a single delusion, it's two parts, two camps, two very different ones. The first says, we don't need to play this game, we are smarter and better than the media and the other campaigns, and the second says, why bother, it won't change, everyone is out to get us. Both of those attitudes are dead wrong. Engage!

[LisaNY]

I believe you Rachel, and I want to thank you for sharing what you can. So how do we reach the people in Iowa? I think our main problem with conservatives, in general, is they believe all the BS they are being told about Ron through Fox and talk radio. How do we counter that? Should we expose, mock and ridicule Ron's critics? His opponents? Rove and Collins may be political heavyweights, but they can't sell anything without the cooperation of the conservative media.

[reduen]

Wow, what a thread that this has turned into.... Rachel, check your inbox if you have not already... :)

[scrosnoe]

Watch the original Reagan staff and war horses and where they begin to line up. It should be with Ron Paul. But it has not been in the past and it would require someone like an Ed Rollins to make that happen. Doug Wead is probably our top 'insider' and should be staff if he will take it IMO.

RachelFaith is seeing the same alignments that I see but from a different perspective. I am not on any inside track, just been around a long time. I suspect that she is right about Bachmann and I also suspect that Palin is along for the ride and whatever she wants.

Pay attention to a 'new' group on the move fronting Brigitte Gabriel using ACT for America as banner. Looks suspiciously like a migration of some of the fake teaparty types knowing exactly what they are doing. Collecting names and announcing to you who your leaders are. Same old same old . . .

[low preference guy]

Sorry, I got confused over which post called me an attention whore. Since you and two other people were also accusing me of being some Matt dude, and the other guy called me the name and you were still posting after 10 pages I forgot who was who. So, technically, you just falsely accused me and then ignored what I wrote and then accused me of writing something else.

I didn't accuse you of being Matt Collins. I asked you because he sounds a lot like you and often posts with sock puppets. I wasn't the only one confused. Just off the top of my head, two other people also believed you were Matt Collins.

[reduen]

Watch the original Reagan staff and war horses and where they begin to line up. It should be with Ron Paul. But it has not been in the past and it would require someone like an Ed Rollins to make that happen. Doug Wead is probably our top 'insider' and should be staff if he will take it IMO.

RachelFaith is seeing the same alignments that I see but from a different perspective. I am not on any inside track, just been around a long time. I suspect that she is right about Bachmann and I also suspect that Palin is along for the ride and whatever she wants.

Pay attention to a 'new' group on the move fronting Brigitte Gabriel using ACT for America as banner. Looks suspiciously like a migration of some of the fake teaparty types knowing exactly what they are doing. Collecting names and announcing to you who your leaders are. Same old same old . . .

I tend to agree with much of what you and Rachel are saying but just from what I see as a common sense prospective. To me, you either have to have a grassroots like a forest fire or you have to hire someone who has gotten it done in the past. I just have not done the research to know all of the big players and I had hope that Dr. Paul would do a good job finding the right people...

Whether they would work for him or not is another question…

[RachelFaith]

I believe you Rachel, and I want to thank you for sharing what you can. So how do we reach the people in Iowa? I think our main problem with conservatives, in general, is they believe all the BS they are being told about Ron through Fox and talk radio. How do we counter that? Should we expose, mock and ridicule Ron's critics? His opponents? Rove and Collins may be political heavyweights, but they can't sell anything without the cooperation of the conservative media.

Can I make the unpopular answer? The campaign says wait. Do nothing. You are too crazy. Stop. Don't come to Iowa, don't call Iowa, sign up on our website and someday we will really give you things to do. Well, I guess that is it. Do that. Wait and see and let the professionals handle it. Or, sign up for the grassroots calls and do it yourself. Choose one I guess. I was posting this, so that everyone who is worried about Cain and thinks Bachmann is a joke would wake up and see that Cain is toast and Bachmann is the real deal. That is all. I gave up trying to fight the campaign. They simply won't accept help and hell no to anything they can't 100% control.

[RachelFaith]

I didn't accuse you of being Matt Collins. I asked you because he sounds a lot like you and often posts with sock puppets. I wasn't the only one confused. Just off the top of my head, two other people also believed you were Matt Collins.

OK, I can accept that. But I hope you can see how that might have helped aggravate thing too? Behind us now?

[RachelFaith]

Watch the original Reagan staff and war horses and where they begin to line up. It should be with Ron Paul. But it has not been in the past and it would require someone like an Ed Rollins to make that happen. Doug Wead is probably our top 'insider' and should be staff if he will take it IMO.

RachelFaith is seeing the same alignments that I see but from a different perspective. I am not on any inside track, just been around a long time. I suspect that she is right about Bachmann and I also suspect that Palin is along for the ride and whatever she wants.

Pay attention to a 'new' group on the move fronting Brigitte Gabriel using ACT for America as banner. Looks suspiciously like a migration of some of the fake teaparty types knowing exactly what they are doing. Collecting names and announcing to you who your leaders are. Same old same old . . .


Nice. I had not heard of them. But the same old trick, make up a front group to do those things a campaign needs then pull the bait and switch. Pawlenty is doing that with Strong America Now. If you don't know who that is, google them. Their biggest consultant in Iowa is also Pawlenty's current consultant and was Romney's. You are right. Follow the real power brokers and see who they pick. Which is why Donatelli is so important. Is she Palin still? If yes, Palin is running. If, as I suspect, she is the big surprise for Bachmann, then Michele has two of the big four and that is our winner. Thanks for posting and sharing. I will totally look into what you posted and report back anything I find.

[LisaNY]

Can I make the unpopular answer? The campaign says wait. Do nothing. You are too crazy. Stop. Don't come to Iowa, don't call Iowa, sign up on our website and someday we will really give you things to do. Well, I guess that is it. Do that. Wait and see and let the professionals handle it. Or, sign up for the grassroots calls and do it yourself. Choose one I guess. I was posting this, so that everyone who is worried about Cain and thinks Bachmann is a joke would wake up and see that Cain is toast and Bachmann is the real deal. That is all. I gave up trying to fight the campaign. They simply won't accept help and hell no to anything they can't 100% control.

They are asking for help on June 25th. Would this not be a good time to reach voters?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?297015-Volunteers-Needed-to-Door-Knock-in-Iowa!-June-25

[RachelFaith]

I tend to agree with much of what you and Rachel are saying but just from what I see as a common sense prospective. To me, you either have to have a grassroots like a forest fire or you have to hire someone who has gotten it done in the past. I just have not done the research to know all of the big players and I had hope that Dr. Paul would do a good job finding the right people...

Whether they would work for him or not is another question…

Not speaking about anyone in particular, just a generic observation, but yes, they would. There are many I know who like Ron Paul but his people accuse them of being neocons and insult them and are rude and belligerent. I know several of the 2nd tier 30 who would have loved to be on the team. But that would mean sharing control and playing politics. So, those who would rather be purists refused. And politics is the art of compromise, and I don't mean on core issues, but just working compromise. We have people on this forum who disagree, yet we are all here for the cause? The same is true in DC. There are liberty minded conservatives just a few shades off of the ideal who would make great allies if they were included and not excluded.

[Billay]

Money talks and Paul has a ability to do so. So to answer your question, no, I don't think Jesse Benton is the best Ron can do.

[RachelFaith]

They are asking for help on June 25th. Would this not be a good time to reach voters?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?297015-Volunteers-Needed-to-Door-Knock-in-Iowa!-June-25

That is a start. One day at least. I'd wish it was for the whole summer and we had 1,000 out of state people. But, one day is a good step forward. Let's see if we can make them comfortable with a lot more.

[RachelFaith]

PS: I am in court most of tomorrow, so if I don't post, please don't start any silly rumors. See ya on the next thread.

[specsaregood]

I didn't accuse you of being Matt Collins. I asked you because he sounds a lot like you and often posts with sock puppets. I wasn't the only one confused. Just off the top of my head, two other people also believed you were Matt Collins.

offtopic: did you know that sockpuppets and alter ego accounts are allowed here as long as you make it obvious who your real account is?

[reduen]

offtopic: did you know that sockpuppets and alter ego accounts are allowed here as long as you make it obvious who your real account is?

OMg....!

[Brian4Liberty]

offtopic: did you know that sockpuppets and alter ego accounts are allowed here as long as you make it obvious who your real account is?

So are you the sock puppet, or is it your other account(s)? ;)

[low preference guy]

offtopic: did you know that sockpuppets and alter ego accounts are allowed here as long as you make it obvious who your real account is?

yeah, that's why i have 3 bars of rep. i give myself +rep all the time.

[PaulConventionWV]

It isn't just the campaign, although they do have the means and should have the experience to never let something slide, but it is pandemic. There are a great many supporters, here on this site, and elsewhere who used to spin, clarify and engage when the media tried to distort his record or statements. Lately, and I have no idea why, that effort seems to have all but terminated into some sort of self delusion. And it's not a single delusion, it's two parts, two camps, two very different ones. The first says, we don't need to play this game, we are smarter and better than the media and the other campaigns, and the second says, why bother, it won't change, everyone is out to get us. Both of those attitudes are dead wrong. Engage!

You two can have your silly conspiracy theory. I think Ron addressed the issue rather well. Also, I don't think we have been slipping in the polls. Last time I checked, we were doing rather well. Have you been ignoring all of the positive things that the campaign has been doing lately?

[PaulConventionWV]

Money talks and Paul has a ability to do so. So to answer your question, no, I don't think Jesse Benton is the best Ron can do.

Well, maybe you're wrong. If he could have someone better, why wouldn't he get them? Unless you are going to tell me Ron deliberately wanted to weaken his own campaign.

[realtonygoodwin]

Nepotism?

[Jim Casey]

offtopic: did you know that sockpuppets and alter ego accounts are allowed here as long as you make it obvious who your real account is?
That's an interesting theory. However, I have evidence that some alter ego accounts have bans that are declared never to be lifted.

Well, maybe you're wrong. If he could have someone better, why wouldn't he get them? Unless you are going to tell me Ron deliberately wanted to weaken his own campaign.
That's another interesting theory. Ron Paul did recently say he hasn't done a very good job. The first words I ever said to Ron Paul when I first shook his hand nearly 4 years ago was "good job".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-NTp5SN0q0
RP was willing to endorse some 3rd partyers last go around. Perhaps the RP endorsement is just the claim to fame Congresswoman Bachmann needs to win the nomination.

[pacelli]

Well, maybe you're wrong. If he could have someone better, why wouldn't he get them? Unless you are going to tell me Ron deliberately wanted to weaken his own campaign.

We went through this in 2008 when former Ron Paul PCC fundraising director came onto the forums and stated that one of the biggest challenges in the campaign for the staff was getting Ron to do anything that he didn't want to do. I hope that Ron's focus has changed. Specifically Jonathan mentioned Ron turning down media interviews. It wasn't a deliberate desire to weaken his own campaign, but Jonathan made it sound like his decisions were also not based out of a deliberate desire to win his own campaign. Hopefully things have changed.

[Jim Casey]

We went through this in 2008 when former Ron Paul PCC fundraising director came onto the forums and stated that one of the biggest challenges in the campaign for the staff was getting Ron to do anything that he didn't want to do. I hope that Ron's focus has changed. Specifically Jonathan mentioned Ron turning down media interviews. It wasn't a deliberate desire to weaken his own campaign, but Jonathan made it sound like his decisions were also not based out of a deliberate desire to win his own campaign. Hopefully things have changed.
Things have changed. The Ron Paul presidential campaign is not the foremost vehicle for advocates of a sound economy as it was four years ago. Congresswoman Bachmann could help cure Ron Paul's focal issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDnaNwlTeIU

[teacherone]

You have no idea how Machiavellian this shit is and how it can ruin people's lives.


This is about the most powerful person on earth....

I know! I figured it out!


He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named has joined forces with Michelle Bachmann ...

We're doomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111 1

Quick Ron -- destroy the horecruxxxxxxx.

[Paulatized]

Well, maybe you're wrong. If he could have someone better, why wouldn't he get them? Unless you are going to tell me Ron deliberately wanted to weaken his own campaign.


Quote Originally Posted by Billay View Post
Money talks and Paul has a ability to do so. So to answer your question, no, I don't think Jesse Benton is the best Ron can do.

I have no inside information and base the following comments from the perspective of a interested citizen who would love to see Ron Paul elected.

IMO, Ron wants to win based on ideals. That is a noble position, but I'm not sure it is realistic. I think there is a large percentage of the voting population that does not turn their attention to politics except to vote along partisan lines for the candidate the media or top political players have hailed the top runner, then we have a percentage that is engaged in the process that votes based on core beliefs, and those voting to maintain power (the status quo).

Ron Paul ran and educational campaign last go around and I think he believes enough people have woke up and have come to understand the liberty philosophy enough to realize what we are about to loose and that those numbers alone will be enough to win, and that unless that situation has come about, then it would be impossible to govern based on liberty principles anyway.

I don't personally believe there are enough people dedicated to voting based on liberty principles to put RP in as POTUS. I think we will need the traditional national level approach with a key "king maker" to pull it off. I am not referring to getting down and dirty and throwing principle aside, but someone who knows the ins and outs on a national level.

The other top tier candidates see this as critical, and every edge we can get will be needed to compete.

[Johncjackson]

When Bachmann starts dominating in the primary I'm going to shout a giant "I told you so" to those that were satisfied with our same old campaign staff.

Disgusting. If we had the right people we could win.

If Bachmann starts dominating the primaries, I would say that all hope is lost for the country. I don't think the composition of Ron Paul's staff could do much for that.

[Jim Casey]

If Bachmann starts dominating the primaries, I would say that all hope is lost for the country. I don't think the composition of Ron Paul's staff could do much for that.
Light for nations takes priority to hope for country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ3_1Sz9Aa4

[rp08orbust]

In 1996, Ron Paul defeated the incumbent Greg Laughlin who had the support of Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, governor George W. Bush, the RNC and the NRA. If Ron runs like it's 1996 and the four districts of Iowa are TX-14, then surely he can win the straw poll. And if he does, Michele Bachmann will be badly bruised.

[acptulsa]

Are we talking about the same political Einstein who's busy pissing off Palin supporters today?

[LisaNY]

Are we talking about the same political Einstein who's busy pissing off Palin supporters today?


yep, and he criticized her last year too: http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/12/01/rollins.palin/

[rp08orbust]

yep, and he criticized her last year too: http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/12/01/rollins.palin/

Interesting. So clearly there are candidates Ed Rollins would not have worked for, and Ron Paul is probably one of them too.

[Jim Casey]

Ed Rollins or anybody else willing to work for a candidate is only as useful to that candidate in terms of how well they can manage to bridge the gaps between one another and the voting public in order to get the delegates they need to relocate to the white house.

[Kade]

Bachmann just used $13,630 in tax payer money to throw a Tea Party rally. You guys still sucking from her teat?

She's as batshit as they come.

[rockandrollsouls]

No denying she's crazy, and I don't see anyone suggesting her as a candidate worth voting for. Doesn't change the fact she knows how to play the game and will be one of the last candidates standing, if not the last.

[LatinsforPaul]

No denying she's crazy, and I don't see anyone suggesting her as a candidate worth voting for. Doesn't change the fact she knows how to play the game and will be one of the last candidates standing, if not the last.

I feel it is her against Dr. Paul for the tea-party vote. If Dr. Paul out does her in the campaign, which is what I expect to happen, we are going to need her endorsement of Dr. Paul over Romney, so Dr. Paul can have a shot at the GOP nomination against Romney.

I suggest we all tone down the Bachmann bashing as we might need her and her supporters in the future. ;)

To add, Bachmann also has a lot of respect for Dr. Paul...

Ron Paul’s Economic Theories Winning GOP Converts (http://washingtonindependent.com/41786/ron-pauls-economic-theories-winning-gop-converts)


Since his congressional comeback in 1996 — after a long stint as a Libertarian Party politician, and after only narrowly defeating a Democrat-turned-Republican that Newt Gingrich’s Republican leadership supported — Paul has maintained a small circle of allies in Congress. Some of them, like Rep. Walter Jones (R-N.C.), are regular guests at the expert luncheons. But the most prominent new face is Bachmann, the rising conservative star who left C-SPAN and YouTube watchers scratching their heads with a constitutional grilling that seemed to puzzle Geithner. “What provision in the Constitution could you point to to give authority for the actions that have been taken by the Treasury since March of ‘08?” asked Bachmann during a hearing on March 24. “What in the Constitution could you point to to give authority to the Treasury’s extraordinary actions that have been taken?”

Bachmann “goes to these luncheons on a weekly basis,” said Debbee Keller, Bachmann’s press secretary. Keller noted that Bachmann was reading “Meltdown,” which argues that the New Deal failed and that the Federal Reserve is responsible for the current economic crisis. “Just as Austrian theory suggests,” wrote Woods, “the Fed’s mischief was responsible for the Great Depression.”

“I had a feeling she’d have some interest in the book,” said Woods, “because she asked some good questions. She was taking notes. She was asking if this or that point could be found in the book. I thought I recognized a sincere person who wanted knowledge, not the usual politician who couldn’t care less about what the truth is and just wanted to propagandize.”

Paul didn’t take credit for turning Bachmann on to Austrian theory (“He’ll give credit to everyone on the planet except himself,” laughed Woods) but said he was pleased to see more members of Congress delving into economics. “She’s very open to studying,” said Paul. “In fact, she’s been working really hard to get me back to Minneapolis. She says, ‘You’ll get such a great reception there!’”

[rockandrollsouls]

She's a distant third in the field for me behind Paul and Johnson, but I'm not going to sit and defend her use of tax payer dollars. I'm sure even her supporters (I do believe many of them have sound tea party roots) would agree with us on that one if it came to it ;)

[Rothbardian Girl]

Bachmann just used $13,630 in tax payer money to throw a Tea Party rally. You guys still sucking from her teat?

She's as batshit as they come.

Lol, I think most people on this forum pretty much dumped her after her vote to reauthorize the PATRIOT Act.

[Deborah K]

Pfft - they're all whores. They'd all work for Paul if the money was right. Who he could trust is a different matter though.

You no likey Doug Wead? Why?

[BUSHLIED]

Well, she doesn't have the best FP...but I sense that she will shake things up in DC for sure...she will run the entire length of the race and will probably do better than Paul in the primary states like FL and NY...i call a brokered convention in the making...if Huckabee and ROmney stayed in, I bet it could have happened last time

[newyearsrevolution08]

I don't care what she gets as far as the so called "teat party" vote because many of those b.s. so called tea partiers are FOR palin and backmann and all that b.s. SO their tea party is NOT the tea party I support.

We all knew they were going to take the tea party from us BUT true constitutionalists will see based on their voting record. Those who feel they are betting on the winning horse will vote based off of the latest poll or what they heard down at starbucks. Either the constitution will win OR the sheep need another 4-8 years for us to be REALLY FUCKED before they realize we might actually have to GET OFF OUR ASSES AND DO SOMETHING.

[specsaregood]

This thread is amusing in hindsight bump.

[libertybrewcity]

hiring any staffer is going to get her back up to 15 or 20 percent in the polls. campaign epic fail. too bad