RIP Jack Kevorkian

[amy31416]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/03/national/main20068607.shtml
(More at link.)



http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2011/06/03/jack_kevorkian_102391344_fullwidth_244x183.jpg

DETROIT - Jack Kevorkian, the retired pathologist who captured the world's attention as he helped dozens of ailing people commit suicide, igniting intense debate and ending up in prison for murder, has died in a Detroit area hospital after a short illness. He was 83.

Kevorkian, who said he helped some 130 people end their lives from 1990 to 1999, died about 2:30 a.m. at William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, close friend and prominent attorney Mayer Morganroth said.

He had been hospitalized since last month with pneumonia and kidney problems, Morganroth said.

[wizardwatson]

Another dead hero.

[Chester Copperpot]

I never spoke to an old person who had a problem with what he was doing.

[cindy25]

a good man ahead of his time.

[mrsat_98]

I guess it's to late to nominate him for White House Physician.

[Danke]

http://img2.imagesbn.com/images/65280000/65281331.JPG

"In reply to an interesting question from the public of whether the right to die
is an absolute right, Kevorkian gave an example of a 17 year old youth who was
of sound body and mind, was not depressed, and yet he just did not want to
continue living. Kevorkian does not have a problem with assisting this person to
die as long as a psychologist confirms that the person does not have a
psychological problem that can be helped."

https://www.ewtn.com/library/PROLENC/ENCYC109.HTM

[ClayTrainor]

"Listen, when you take my liberty away, you've taken away more-something more precious than life. I mean, what good is a life without liberty? Huh? None." - Jack Kevorkian

RIP Jack.

[Meatwasp]

Best news I heard in a long time. Now he has the opportunity to STUDY death.

[kah13176]

Even libertarians on here are starting to argue about a person's right to their property - i.e. their life. I thought doing with our property as we choose is the ultimate goal of our endevours. How is this different?

[Freedom 4 all]

I'm not sure how to feel about Dr. Kevorkian. On one hand, I do support the right of the individual to self-determination, and that includes the right to die. However, a lot of his "supporters" seem to be radical environmentalists who favor population control measures including involuntary euthanasia for the mentally or terminally ill who cannot consent, regardless of whether or not they have a living will authorizing it. That's DEFINITELY not cool with me. Does anyone know if Dr. Kevorkian ever said anything positive about ending the life of someone without expressed consent?

[Meatwasp]

Fine if you want to commit suicide but please not let a murderer do it for you. No different if you decided to go into a bad neighbor hood and get whacked.

[kah13176]

Fine if you want to commit suicide but please not let a murderer do it for you. No different if you decided to go into a bad neighbor hood and get whacked.

I thought murder meant taking someone's life involuntarily...

[amy31416]

I'm not sure how to feel about Dr. Kevorkian. On one hand, I do support the right of the individual to self-determination, and that includes the right to die. However, a lot of his "supporters" seem to be radical environmentalists who favor population control measures including involuntary euthanasia for the mentally or terminally ill who cannot consent, regardless of whether or not they have a living will authorizing it. That's DEFINITELY not cool with me. Does anyone know if Dr. Kevorkian ever said anything positive about ending the life of someone without expressed consent?

A while back, I watched a documentary on him and I didn't see anything of the sort. Obviously I can't speak for his "supporters."

[Meatwasp]

I thought murder meant taking someone's life involuntarily...
Euthanasia coming up next kiddo. Shoot you full of morphine and than say "OH he,she wanted to die" The hospital did that to my sister inlay.

[BuddyRey]

Unless I'm mistaken, Jack Kevorkian never killed anybody who didn't ask him to.

[Meatwasp]

Unless I'm mistaken, Jack Kevorkian never killed anybody who didn't ask him to.
So he still was a murderer.

[Xenophage]

I'm not sure how to feel about Dr. Kevorkian. On one hand, I do support the right of the individual to self-determination, and that includes the right to die. However, a lot of his "supporters" seem to be radical environmentalists who favor population control measures including involuntary euthanasia for the mentally or terminally ill who cannot consent, regardless of whether or not they have a living will authorizing it. That's DEFINITELY not cool with me. Does anyone know if Dr. Kevorkian ever said anything positive about ending the life of someone without expressed consent?

From what I know of Kevorkian, this would be inconsistent with his principles.

Also, I think it's illogical to judge a person by the quality of their 'supporters.' If you did, you'd think Ron Paul was a conspiracy nut.

[Xenophage]

No, he wasn't a murderer.

[pcosmar]

Euthanasia coming up next kiddo. Shoot you full of morphine and than say "OH he,she wanted to die" The hospital did that to my sister inlay.
I am not fan of the concept of Euthanasia. and it is indeed a slippery slope. No doubt many that support population Controls also support him.

Unless I'm mistaken, Jack Kevorkian never killed anybody who didn't ask him to.

It is my understanding as well. He simply assisted those who did to do it themselves.
He provided the means, but did not actually act to kill them.

[kah13176]

Unless I'm mistaken, Jack Kevorkian never killed anybody who didn't ask him to.

He killed no one. He made the person flip the switch themselves, which is consistent with libertarian philosophy - right to your own property.

[Brian4Liberty]

Euthanasia coming up next kiddo. Shoot you full of morphine and than say "OH he,she wanted to die" The hospital did that to my sister inlay.

That's the secret truth behind the political hype. Jack fought to bring it out in the open, others fight against the very thought of it. Every day terminal patients are sent on their way via overdoses of morphine. It's extremely common. It's ironic that the media and politicians make a Federal issue out of a case like Terry Shivo, yet at the very same time, hundreds of people are routinely helped "out" by doctors.

[ClayTrainor]

For Anyone interested, HBO recently made a movie about his life, starring Al Pacino.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1132623/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suOl27sWwKE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTDlVgG4dQE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSv0U94kiZ4

[mport1]

A hero. RIP.

[Krugerrand]

My understanding is that the cause of death for an physician assisted suicide does not get recorded as a "suicide" but whatever the person's terminal illness was. I have a problem with that. (assuming it to be true)

[AGRP]

It's only OK when the state does it.

[Krugerrand]

It's only OK when the state does it.

I'm surprised they don't charge a fee.

[Meatwasp]

You have to live your life out even in pain. When you are old you reflect on the bad things you did in your life and make your own hell. You see I believe in reincarnation and want to come back with a clean slate.
Most atheists are humanists and believe when your body wears out that's the end of the game.

[amy31416]

You have to live your life out even in pain. When you are old you reflect on the bad things you did in your life and make your own hell. You see I believe in reincarnation and want to come back with a clean slate.
Most atheists are humanists and believe when your body wears out that's the end of the game.

I respect your choice and your beliefs. I also respect the choice and beliefs of those who are terminally ill and choose their own fate.

[Kotin]

:(

[t0rnado]

You have to live your life out even in pain. When you are old you reflect on the bad things you did in your life and make your own hell. You see I believe in reincarnation and want to come back with a clean slate.
Most atheists are humanists and believe when your body wears out that's the end of the game.

Don't tell others what to do or how to live their lives. Forcing your fairy tales upon people is inconsistent with libertarianism.

Kevorkian was a hero.

[Brian4Liberty]

My understanding is that the cause of death for an physician assisted suicide does not get recorded as a "suicide" but whatever the person's terminal illness was. I have a problem with that. (assuming it to be true)

Well, they wouldn't be overdosing you if you didn't have the primary problem. Statistically speaking, you want to count the primary cause. If half the deaths in the hospitals and hospices said "morphine overdose", you wouldn't have the statistics on type of cancer, or stroke, or accident or whatever.

[Krugerrand]

Don't tell others what to do or how to live their lives. Forcing your fairy tales upon people is inconsistent with libertarianism.

Kevorkian was a hero.

I still consider him a low-life scum while not wanting to put him in jail.

[Travlyr]

Ron Paul - Liberty Defined


Finally, here is my program for pro-life MDs and medical personnel.

Do not perform abortions for convenience or social reasons.
Do not be the agent of active euthanasia.
Do not participate in any manner -- directly or indirectly -- in torture.
Do not participate in human experimentation. ... and he goes on to explain this concept ...
Do not be involved with the state in executing criminals or in any way approve the carrying out of the death penalty.
Do not participate in government-run programs where medical care is rationed for economic or social reasons that place relative value on life.
Do not give political or philosophical support for wars of aggression, referred to as preventive wars.

[Kotin]

I still consider him a low-life scum while not wanting to put him in jail.

I'd love to see you try and explain that to the people who desperately sought his help..

[Krugerrand]

Well, they wouldn't be overdosing you if you didn't have the primary problem. Statistically speaking, you want to count the primary cause. If half the deaths in the hospitals and hospices said "morphine overdose", you wouldn't have the statistics on type of cancer, or stroke, or accident or whatever.

I guess each state is different in how they record things. But, gun shot wound could be a cause of death, but a cause would typically be classified as natural, accidental, murder, or suicide.

Again, like I said ... I don't really know much about this ... so I probably should have just kept my trap shut. :D

[jmhudak17]

A great man who stood up for the rights of individuals even when it resulted in jail time. RIP.

[Krugerrand]

I'd love to see you try and explain that to the people who desperately sought his help..

I see suicide in two different lights ... one is a person that lacks the full mental capacity to understand what they are doing. The other is the ultimate act of cowardice. Perhaps it's not the best way to present it to family member that are in an emotionally stressed situation - but that doesn't change the reality of the situation.

[johnrocks]

RIP and sorry you had to spend one second in prison.

[Krugerrand]

The debate is moot. The state implemented assisted suicide team has replaced any relevance to physician assisted suicide. Just dial 9-1-1 and they'll provide the service free of charge (or better stated, the taxpayers will provide the service free of charge.) Sadly, the assisted suicide team cannot guarantee there will not be any incidental property damage in the process. :D:rolleyes:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?292318-Ex-Marine-gunned-down-by-SWAT-team

[ClayTrainor]

I see suicide in two different lights ... one is a person that lacks the full mental capacity to understand what they are doing. The other is the ultimate act of cowardice.

What about someone who is completely conscious what they are doing, and is suffering greatly?

[amy31416]

I see suicide in two different lights ... one is a person that lacks the full mental capacity to understand what they are doing. The other is the ultimate act of cowardice. Perhaps it's not the best way to present it to family member that are in an emotionally stressed situation - but that doesn't change the reality of the situation.

Kevorkian didn't assist people who were mentally distraught, he assisted those who were terminally ill, in a lot of pain and would only further deteriorate and have a very (even more) negative quality of life.

The gov't forbids them to end their own life, to seek alternatives (such as medical MJ or even legal forms of pain management). It is their life and their choice. We're not talking about suicidal teenagers or manic depressives here.

[Krugerrand]

What about someone who is completely conscious what they are doing, and is suffering greatly?

i really hate to get into this ... because this is my opinion ... which I don't see as mattering a whole lot.

But ... I'd file it under cowardice. I'm not saying suffering is good ... but I think it can have value in a person's life.

[Krugerrand]

Kevorkian didn't assist people who were mentally distraught, he assisted those who were terminally ill, in a lot of pain and would only further deteriorate and have a very (even more) negative quality of life.

The gov't forbids them to end their own life, to seek alternatives (such as medical MJ or even legal forms of pain management). It is their life and their choice. We're not talking about suicidal teenagers or manic depressives here.

Which is why I didn't wish jail upon him.

But, I don't see him as heroic. To me, a hero would have been somebody that would have been able to find a way help that person find a reason to value their life despite their suffering.

[Meatwasp]

Don't tell others what to do or how to live their lives. Forcing your fairy tales upon people is inconsistent with libertarianism.

Kevorkian was a hero.

Hey baby I am not forcing anything on people. I am just putting a view point out. I am not a Libertarian. Sorry. You are not either as your mind is snapped shut.
By the way half the world believes in this fairy tale of reincarnation. Even the bible mentioned it until it was taken out.

[Anti Federalist]

Finally, here is my program for pro-life MDs and medical personnel.
•Do not be the agent of active euthanasia.

Once again, the good Dr. has it right.

[echebota]

RIP doctor. You are a hero.

Krugerrand's ideas about cowardness and assisted suicide teams (SWAT) and patients being unconscious are completely inapplicable.

- He never killed anyone, the patient flipped the switch
- In all cases, patients were completely conscious and completely determined.
- I saw footage of many of his patients. If I were them, I would have done exactly the same. They were all terminally ill, they were all suffering immensely. I can not call them cowards - imagine you have your leg being sawed continuously for several years. Life should not be just about trying to survive the pain. And it was exactly that for them.
- The SWAT team or shooting themselves options were too violent to the patients. They were very tired and just wanted somebody understanding and compassionate to be with them at the last moments of their life. Plus after years of suffering they wanted at least to die without pain.
- He didn't charge or charged only to cover the cost of medications.

[Krugerrand]

RIP doctor. You are a hero.

Krugerrand's ideas about cowardness and assisted suicide teams (SWAT) and patients being unconscious are completely inapplicable.

- He never killed anyone, the patient flipped the switch
- In all cases, patients were completely conscious and completely determined.
- I saw footage of many of his patients. If I were them, I would have done exactly the same. They were all terminally ill, they were all suffering immensely. I can not call them cowards - imagine you have your leg being sawed continuously for several years. Life should not be just about trying to survive the pain. And it was exactly that for them.
- The SWAT team or shooting themselves options were too violent to the patients. They were very tired and just wanted somebody understanding and compassionate to be with them at the last moments of their life. Plus after years of suffering they wanted at least to die without pain.
- He didn't charge or charged only to cover the cost of medications.

swat team remark was tongue-in-cheek. My apologies for being unclear. (edited w/ emoticons to help add tone)

[Brian4Liberty]

Two of my family members departed via morphine overdoses in the hospital. Both were elderly. One had extensive cancer, and was in severe pain. He had worked in the medical profession, and knew how it worked. He told the doctors it was time, and that he wanted his morphine increased. They complied. The other relative had several strokes, and the final one involved a "stroke" in the stomach, which was followed by another in the brain when they attempted surgery. He could not speak, his wife expressed her desire for a painless and fast end. Once again, morphine sped the process.

[echebota]

To Meatwasp:

Regardless of religion ...

Putting ideas out about how you want to live your life is perfectly OK. Putting ideas out about how other people have to live their lives is absolutely NOT OK unless they violate your personal liberties (not ideas or believes). I mean you can speak and express such ideas and it's your right, but it just not respectfull of others. that's all.

[Travlyr]

Once again, the good Dr. has it right.

Yes, he does. I only hope to be that consistent in my beliefs when I'm 75. ;)

[Meatwasp]

i really hate to get into this ... because this is my opinion ... which I don't see as mattering a whole lot.

But ... I'd file it under cowardice. I'm not saying suffering is good ... but I think it can have value in a person's life.
A man with a fresh cool mind just blew in. Those that believe K. is a hero --- are well I won't say it.

[ClayTrainor]

A man with a fresh cool mind just blew in. Those that believe K. is a hero --- are well I won't say it.

Compassionate Human Beings? :p :)

[Meatwasp]

I respect your choice and your beliefs. I also respect the choice and beliefs of those who are terminally ill and choose their own fate.
Yes dear heart. But he furnished the instrument.

[Meatwasp]

Once again, the good Dr. has it right.

The same forces that made Ron Paul made me as I agree with everything he says.

[Meatwasp]

To Meatwasp:

Regardless of religion ...

Putting ideas out about how you want to live your life is perfectly OK. Putting ideas out about how other people have to live their lives is absolutely NOT OK unless they violate your personal liberties (not ideas or believes). I mean you can speak and express such ideas and it's your right, but it just not respectfull of others. that's all.

Look at what you are saying about what's right and what's wrong. If you think the fugitive from the grave yard ,(Jack K.) is right. My how confused you are.

[ClayTrainor]

- He never killed anyone, the patient flipped the switch
- In all cases, patients were completely conscious and completely determined.
- I saw footage of many of his patients. If I were them, I would have done exactly the same. They were all terminally ill, they were all suffering immensely. I can not call them cowards - imagine you have your leg being sawed continuously for several years. Life should not be just about trying to survive the pain. And it was exactly that for them.
- The SWAT team or shooting themselves options were too violent to the patients. They were very tired and just wanted somebody understanding and compassionate to be with them at the last moments of their life. Plus after years of suffering they wanted at least to die without pain.
- He didn't charge or charged only to cover the cost of medications.

Well said.

[amy31416]

Yes dear heart. But he furnished the instrument.

Not sure what that has to do with the fact that I respect your choice and theirs. I won't demonize or "hero-ize" Kevorkian, but I will stand up for people to decide their own fate and acknowledge that their life is their own so long as they are not unconscious or mentally unstable.

[ClayTrainor]

The same forces that made Ron Paul made me as I agree with everything he says.

Do you agree with this vote?


http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Ron_Paul_Health_Care.htm

Voted NO on banning physician-assisted suicide.

Vote on HR 2260, the Pain Relief Promotion Act of 1999, would ban the use of drugs for physician-assisted suicide. The bill would not allow doctors to give lethal prescriptions to terminally ill patients, and instead promotes "palliative care," or aggressive pain relief techniques.

[GuerrillaXXI]

I'm in the camp that views Kevorkian as a hero. He went to prison for defending the right of people to do as they wish with their own lives.

I also think we should avoid judging those who have chosen to end their own lives until we've endured the kind of suffering they have for as long as they have. It's not like these people went out and victimized others. They simply wanted to escape the endless torture they had to endure day after day.

We euthanize animals out of pity when we see them suffering. Shouldn't we at least have the compassion to allow suffering humans to euthanize themselves, assuming they're of sound mind? I understand that some are opposed to this for religious reasons, and I respect that. But no one should ever look to the state to impose his religious beliefs on others.

[t0rnado]

Hey baby I am not forcing anything on people. I am just putting a view point out. I am not a Libertarian. Sorry. You are not either as your mind is snapped shut.
By the way half the world believes in this fairy tale of reincarnation. Even the bible mentioned it until it was taken out.

Non-sequitor. Stating that you believing in fairy tales doesn't mean my "mind is snapped shut" nor does it mean that I'm not a libertarian. Simply because a large group of people believe in something doesn't make it a fact either.

You said, "You have to live your life out even in pain." That's where the immoral force comes in.

[Krugerrand]

Do you agree with this vote?

I agree with the vote.

[BuddyRey]

I'm in the camp that views Kevorkian as a hero. He went to prison for defending the right of people to do as they wish with their own lives.

I also think we should avoid judging those who have chosen to end their own lives until we've endured the kind of suffering they have for as long as they have. It's not like these people went out and victimized others. They simply wanted to escape the endless torture they had to endure day after day.

We euthanize animals out of pity when we see them suffering. Shouldn't we at least have the compassion to allow suffering humans to euthanize themselves, assuming they're of sound mind? I understand that some are opposed to this for religious reasons, and I respect that. But no one should ever look to the state to impose his religious beliefs on others.

Dang...I'm all out of reps to give out. This post is so worthy of one too.

I think there's a bit of a miscommunication or misconception here, where those opposed to legal consent-based euthanasia think that we actually like the thought of people killing themselves, or helping others to do so. That's not true, at least as far as I see it. I'm a Christian (not a very good one according to some fellow RPF'ers, but I won't go there), and if I knew somebody who wanted to take his or her own life, I'd try my darndest to talk them out of it.

But in the end, each of us has the free will to choose how we live our own lives, and if that includes a choice to take our own lives, we have to respect that legally, even if we don't condone it or find it very savory on a personal level. As RP says, having liberty means you've got to put up with nonsense and things you don't like too.

[Golding]

I don't agree with his treatment of Thomas Youk, but it seemed to come about because he was frustrated that he was not being listened to. Kevorkian knowingly paid the cost of his freedom just to have the opportunity to earn a stage to debate a point on liberty that he felt was important (to him and his patients). He stood up for what he believed in, and to me, that makes a respectable individual (and unfortunately a rare breed). For that, he will be missed by me. RIP.

[Bruno]

You have to live your life out even in pain. .



Live any portion of your life in pain if you wish but the state should not have the power to force that pain and suffering upon others.

You don't own my body and neither does the state, so neither you nor the state should have the right to interfere with my choice to do with my body as I please.


Immoral. Please give me a break. My husband died with terrible pain but he was not a coward and told me he did not want drugs as he wanted to be awake for the end. Woman have terrible pain in child birth but the pain is conquered if your mind is set. It is the way of life. If it hurts too much take a Tylenol.Hee

I'm sure there are choices you make in life that I would not agree with, however that does not mean that I think they should be crimes.

Some women take epidurals to avoid the terrible pain of childbirth. Should that be illegal? Are they cowards? Perhaps according to you, but I am not one to interfere with that choice, and neither should the state make it unlawful for anyone to seek relief from their pain, enjoyment with their body, or whatever they may choose to do with it.

[Meatwasp]

Non-sequitor. Stating that you believing in fairy tales doesn't mean my "mind is snapped shut" nor does it mean that I'm not a libertarian. Simply because a large group of people believe in something doesn't make it a fact either.

You said, "You have to live your life out even in pain." That's where the immoral force comes in.

Immoral. Please give me a break. My husband died with terrible pain but he was not a coward and told me he did not want drugs as he wanted to be awake for the end. Woman have terrible pain in child birth but the pain is conquered if your mind is set. It is the way of life. If it hurts too much take a Tylenol.Hee

[Kotin]

Immoral. Please give me a break. My husband died with terrible pain but he was not a coward and told me he did not want drugs as he wanted to be awake for the end. . It is the way of life. If it hurts too much take a Tylenol.Hee:rolleyes:

[Meatwasp]

Live any portion of your life in pain if you wish but the state should not have the power to force that pain and suffering upon others.

You don't own my body and neither does the state, so neither you nor the state should have the right to interfere with my choice to do with my body as I please.

Come on Bruno I don't want government in this at all. I have my suspicions that Jack the knife was on government funds.
I hope they stuck a wooden stake through his heart so he won't come back again. I know I am being nasty.

[nate895]

Immoral. Please give me a break. My husband died with terrible pain but he was not a coward and told me he did not want drugs as he wanted to be awake for the end. Woman have terrible pain in child birth but the pain is conquered if your mind is set. It is the way of life. If it hurts too much take a Tylenol.Hee

See, all morality is to the libertarians is the Non-Aggression Principle. If something violates the NAP, it is immoral. If it doesn't, then it is moral. In this wholly irrational mindset, it is perfectly morally acceptable to do all sorts of wild and wacky things, like kill oneself or aid others who seek to kill themselves. However, it is immoral to do something perfectly sane, like use force to prevent your best friend from killing himself, because that would be a violation of the NAP.

[tpreitzel]

Best news I heard in a long time. Now he has the opportunity to STUDY death.

Justice is done ... finally. Only cowards and murderers would help someone commit suicide. If someone wants to die, that responsibility lies solely with the individual, not the state or another person. Recruiting someone else to do your dirty work is a cowardly act regardless of capacity. Life is full of injustice. Deal with it yourself.

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

I'm surprised they don't charge a fee.

Oh, don't worry. I'm sure some enterprising scumbag bureaucrat it even now trying to craft a law that would charge your family for cost of the bullets used to kill you in a botched SWAT drug bust.

[Dianne]

mrsat_98 said: I guess it's to late to nominate him for White House Physician.


OMG, that was hysterical !!!!!! You made my day, lol.

[Meatwasp]

Not sure what that has to do with the fact that I respect your choice and theirs. I won't demonize or "hero-ize" Kevorkian, but I will stand up for people to decide their own fate and acknowledge that their life is their own so long as they are not unconscious or mentally unstable.

sorry Amy .Misread your post

[Dianne]

Not positive, but isn't the hospital he died in "William Beaumont Hospital" an army hospital? If it is a military hospital, isn't that about the same thing as assisted suicide?

[Golding]

Not positive, but isn't the hospital he died in "William Beaumont Hospital" an army hospital? If it is a military hospital, isn't that about the same thing as assisted suicide?William Beaumont Hospital isn't an army hospital, though William Beaumont himself was an army physician. It's a huge hospital system, probably the largest hospital in the country. Great teaching facility for residents and fellows.

[ClayTrainor]

I'm in the camp that views Kevorkian as a hero. He went to prison for defending the right of people to do as they wish with their own lives.

I also think we should avoid judging those who have chosen to end their own lives until we've endured the kind of suffering they have for as long as they have. It's not like these people went out and victimized others. They simply wanted to escape the endless torture they had to endure day after day.

We euthanize animals out of pity when we see them suffering. Shouldn't we at least have the compassion to allow suffering humans to euthanize themselves, assuming they're of sound mind? I understand that some are opposed to this for religious reasons, and I respect that. But no one should ever look to the state to impose his religious beliefs on others.

+10000000000

Very well said!

[nate895]

Question for the libertarians: If one has the absolute right to do what they want with their lives, even ending it, and all rights should be protected, should I be punished if I prevent a friend of mine from killing himself by using force to take the intended weapon out of his or her hands?

[Kotin]

Question for the libertarians: If one has the absolute right to do what they want with their lives, even ending it, and all rights should be protected, should I be punished if I prevent a friend of mine from killing himself by using force to take the intended weapon out of his or her hands?

Sorry but you don't have the authority to stop him.

[nate895]

Sorry but you don't have the authority to stop him.

And you guys wonder why the rest of everyone thinks y'all are cuckoo-for-cocoa-puffs. It's because either you actually are cuckoo for cocoa puffs, or you would never actually follow through on your principles in real, everyday life. Friends and family prevent each other from doing crazy crap like that, sometimes by moderate levels of force, and you are never, ever, in a million, billion years, on into eternity going to convince everyone with the presence of mind to apply the NAP standard down to the level of this logical conclusion to actually adopt it. It's why I abandoned the NAP after like a month or two.

[amy31416]

And you guys wonder why the rest of everyone thinks y'all are cuckoo-for-cocoa-puffs. It's because either you actually are cuckoo for cocoa puffs, or you would never actually follow through on your principles in real, everyday life. Friends and family prevent each other from doing crazy crap like that, sometimes by moderate levels of force, and you are never, ever, in a million, billion years, on into eternity going to convince everyone with the presence of mind to apply the NAP standard down to the level of this logical conclusion to actually adopt it. It's why I abandoned the NAP after like a month or two.

Kotin is right.

A person who is hell-bent on killing himself will do so whether you like it or not. Are you saying that you have the right to imprison and restrain them (Gitmo-style comes to mind) in order to prevent it? Strip them naked, monitor all their food, perhaps even drug them up?

Think beyond taking their gun away, or having a serious talk with them. There's a difference between intervening and forcefully taking away a person's freedom.

[Golding]

And you guys wonder why the rest of everyone thinks y'all are cuckoo-for-cocoa-puffs. It's because either you actually are cuckoo for cocoa puffs, or you would never actually follow through on your principles in real, everyday life. Friends and family prevent each other from doing crazy crap like that, sometimes by moderate levels of force, and you are never, ever, in a million, billion years, on into eternity going to convince everyone with the presence of mind to apply the NAP standard down to the level of this logical conclusion to actually adopt it. It's why I abandoned the NAP after like a month or two.The problem with the NAP is that it's something that tries to apply a fundamental principle to all situations. The NAP is inherently inconsistent with individualism, because it's supposed to be a rule that applies for any and all situations, especially if you interpret it as strictly as you do (where removing the gun from someone's hand is an act of aggression).

There is a difference between a man holding a gun to his head threatening to end it all, and a man with a debilitating end-stage disease that is asking a doctor to spare him the misery. One is more likely acting of sound mind, and the other is likely not. I'd support stopping someone from hastily trying to kill themselves over something trivial, and I don't think I'd be morally opposed to a physician assisting death in a terminally ill person who has rationally thought things through, has exhausted their alternatives, and has no way of doing the deed reasonably on their own.

[ClayTrainor]

Question for the libertarians: If one has the absolute right to do what they want with their lives, even ending it, and all rights should be protected, should I be punished if I prevent a friend of mine from killing himself by using force to take the intended weapon out of his or her hands?

Self-ownership is axiomatic. To argue against it can only result in a performative contradiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_contradiction). Therefore your friend owns himself, and it is ultimately his right to end his own life, whether you like it or not, in much the same way it is ultimately his right to eat unhealthy food, smoke cigarettes and do drugs.

[ClayTrainor]

A person who is hell-bent on killing himself will do so whether you like it or not. Are you saying that you have the right to imprison and restrain them (Gitmo-style comes to mind) in order to prevent it? Strip them naked, monitor all their food, perhaps even drug them up?

Think beyond taking their gun away, or having a serious talk with them. There's a difference between intervening and forcefully taking away a person's freedom.

Great point!

[tpreitzel]

"Oh, please, PLEASE, help me die. I just can't continue living this way. Boo Hoo Hoo, please relieve me of this agony!" :"Give me a shot, anything, but don't ask me to just stop eating or drinking and suffer until I die!" "I want to die fat, dumb, and happy, but QUICKLY so please help me".... "In other words, I don't give a damn whether you must live with helping me die, just do it because I'm a chickenshit and misery loves company, but I get to die and you get to live even with the psychological impact of being an accomplice to murder."

[heavenlyboy34]

Sorry but you don't have the authority to stop him.
This ^^

[amy31416]

"Oh, please, PLEASE, help me die. I just can't continue living this way. Boo Hoo Hoo, please relieve me of this agony!" :"Give me a shot, anything, but don't ask me to just stop eating or drinking and suffer until I die!" "I want to die fat, dumb, and happy, but QUICKLY so please help me".... "In other words, I don't give a damn whether you must live with helping me die, just do it because I'm a chickenshit and misery loves company, but I get to die and you get to live even with the psychological impact of being an accomplice to murder."

Wow.

You've never experienced someone with a long-term, painful illness dying, have you?

[heavenlyboy34]

"Oh, please, PLEASE, help me die. I just can't continue living this way. Boo Hoo Hoo, please relieve me of this agony!" :"Give me a shot, anything, but don't ask me to just stop eating or drinking and suffer until I die!" "I want to die fat, dumb, and happy, but QUICKLY so please help me".... "In other words, I don't give a damn whether you must live with helping me die, just do it because I'm a chickenshit and misery loves company, but I get to die and you get to live even with the psychological impact of being an accomplice to murder."

Have you ever been in chronic, agonizing pain or had a condition that makes your life a constant living hell? If not, you are in the wrong to call such a person a "chickenshit" or any other insulting term. -rep for you.

[Golding]

"Oh, please, PLEASE, help me die. I just can't continue living this way. Boo Hoo Hoo, please relieve me of this agony!" :"Give me a shot, anything, but don't ask me to just stop eating or drinking and suffer until I die!" "I want to die fat, dumb, and happy, but QUICKLY so please help me".... "In other words, I don't give a damn whether you must live with helping me die, just do it because I'm a chickenshit and misery loves company, but I get to die and you get to live even with the psychological impact of being an accomplice to murder."Posts like yours only strengthen GuerrillaXXI's accurate statement earlier in the thread: "I also think we should avoid judging those who have chosen to end their own lives until we've endured the kind of suffering they have for as long as they have".

Those who have experienced it and those who have actually seen it are among those who can clearly tell that you don't get it. There may come a time when you will.

[ClayTrainor]

"Oh, please, PLEASE, help me die. I just can't continue living this way. Boo Hoo Hoo, please relieve me of this agony!" :"Give me a shot, anything, but don't ask me to just stop eating or drinking and suffer until I die!" "I want to die fat, dumb, and happy, but QUICKLY so please help me".... "In other words, I don't give a damn whether you must live with helping me die, just do it because I'm a chickenshit and misery loves company, but I get to die and you get to live even with the psychological impact of being an accomplice to murder."

My Grandpa suffered with lung cancer for almost 2 full years of his life.

I will always remember him telling me about how he hadn't been able to take a deep relaxing breath in over a year. In the last few months of his life, it got really bad. He was coughing blood daily, gasping for air, involuntarily going to the bathroom in front of company, etc. etc. It was so awful in so many ways. I'd look into his eyes and I could just tell he was miserable, unhappy and ready to leave his life behind.

The only reason he was even able to still be alive was due to modern medical technologies. There were a few occasions where he would disconnect his machines in a desperate attempt to end his suffering, but someone would just come hook him right back up.

It was awful. I know he wanted to die, and had the option to be euthanized been available, he would've chosen it, I have no doubt. Our family would've supported him as well, because it was so hard to watch him suffer.

You can refer to people like me as chickenshits all you want, but from personal experience, I feel that it is nothing short of compassion to assist those who are suffering badly with an alternative choice.

[tpreitzel]

Wow.

You've never experienced someone with a long-term, painful illness dying, have you?

Do you realize how stupid of a question this is for someone retiring from the US military, personally suffering chronic pain for nearly a decade, and members of my own family slowly dying from cancer and toxic medical therapies?

[tpreitzel]

Have you ever been in chronic, agonizing pain or had a condition that makes your life a constant living hell? If not, you are in the wrong to call such a person a "chickenshit" or any other insulting term. -rep for you.

See previous post. You're also being negatively repped for recommending another party suffer with the psychological effects of assisted suicide because of the
CHICKENSHIT's who want to drag innocent parties into their dirty schemes.

[nate895]

Kotin is right.

A person who is hell-bent on killing himself will do so whether you like it or not. Are you saying that you have the right to imprison and restrain them (Gitmo-style comes to mind) in order to prevent it? Strip them naked, monitor all their food, perhaps even drug them up?

Think beyond taking their gun away, or having a serious talk with them. There's a difference between intervening and forcefully taking away a person's freedom.


Self-ownership is axiomatic. To argue against it can only result in a performative contradiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_contradiction). Therefore your friend owns himself, and it is ultimately his right to end his own life, whether you like it or not, in much the same way it is ultimately his right to eat unhealthy food, smoke cigarettes and do drugs.

I don't know why I subject myself to this nonsense.

[amy31416]

Do you realize how stupid of a question this is for someone retiring from the US military, personally suffering chronic pain for nearly a decade, and members of my own family slowly dying from cancer and toxic medical therapies?

Do you realize how fucking infuriating your post is to people like me who've watched their own father die a slow, wasting, agonizing, humiliating, painful death?

He would have given anything to be "fat, dumb and happy."

[ClayTrainor]

I don't know why I subject myself to this nonsense.

It is your choice, because you own yourself. ;)

[nate895]

Do you realize how fucking stupid your post is to people like me who've watched their own father die a slow, wasting, agonizing, humiliating, painful death?

He would have given anything to be "fat, dumb and happy."

How about everyone stops pretending like people who have the opposite opinion are, by necessity, irrational or ignorant.

The antics of the so-called "libertarians" make me believe this article to be a rather mild criticism: Libertarians: The Chirping Sectaries (http://www.mmisi.org/ma/25_04/kirk.pdf)

[amy31416]

How about everyone stops pretending like people who have the opposite opinion are, by necessity, irrational or ignorant.

The antics of the so-called "libertarians" make me believe this article to be a rather mild criticism: Libertarians: The Chirping Sectaries (http://www.mmisi.org/ma/25_04/kirk.pdf)

Irony.

[tpreitzel]

Do you realize how fucking stupid your post is to people like me who've watched their own father die a slow, wasting, agonizing, humiliating, painful death?

He would have given anything to be "fat, dumb and happy."

Do you realize how damn dumb your statement about the agonizing death of your father is? As I previously stated, your father COULD have simply stopped drinking and eating and solved the problem HIMSELF. Actually, your father likely had the character to do just that, but you're misusing his agonizing death because you want to make a hollow case for assisted suicide.

[amy31416]

Do you realize how damn dumb your statement about the agonizing death of your father is? As I previously stated, your father COULD have simply stopped drinking and eating and solved the problem HIMSELF. Actually, your father likely had the character to do just that, but your misusing his agonizing death because you want to make a hollow case for assisted suicide.

Hey, guess what--he DID stop drinking and eating because he was no longer able to. Even that was devastatingly painful. Guess what they did? They stuck a tube in his stomach.

I'm not making the case for assisted suicide, I'm making the case that it was HIS choice and HIS body and if he wanted to, that option should be available. Just like medical MJ, just like heroin or whatever else might have some end-of-life use.

[ClayTrainor]

Irony.

lmao, seriously.

The first thing Nate said in this thread.


See, all morality is to the libertarians is the Non-Aggression Principle. If something violates the NAP, it is immoral. If it doesn't, then it is moral. In this wholly irrational mindset,

Is irony the right word, or hypocrisy?

[nate895]

Irony.

Did I ever say libertarians themselves were irrational or ignorant? No. Their belief system is, however.

That's like when the Mormons claim you're "Anti-Mormon" if you happen to believe their religion is false and leads down the road to perdition. No, I don't think Mormons, or libertarians, are irrational or ignorant by nature. I just believe they're wrong and need to get mugged by reality.

[nate895]

lmao, seriously.

The first thing Nate said in this thread.



Is irony the right word, or hypocrisy?

The libertarian mindset is irrational. Not necessarily the person holding it. There is a difference between the two.

[tpreitzel]

Hey, guess what--he DID stop drinking and eating because he was no longer able to. Even that was devastatingly painful. Guess what they did? They stuck a tube in his stomach.

I'm not making the case for assisted suicide, I'm making the case that it was HIS choice and HIS body and if he wanted to, that option should be available. Just like medical MJ, just like heroin or whatever else might have some end-of-life use.


Hey, guess what... Assisted living is NOT the same as assisted suicide. ;)

Unfortunately, your concern for your father allowed him to stay in the hospital with a tube in his stomach instead of being returned home to die without assistance of ANY kind.

[ClayTrainor]

The libertarian mindset is irrational.

Is the principle of self-ownership irrational?

[amy31416]

Hey, guess what... Assisted living is NOT the same as assisted suicide. ;)

I'm aware of that. It seems you'd rather the doctors have the say as to when a person is "allowed" to die, rather than the sentient patient, because a dying person is a "chickenshit" if they choose death, but I guess they're good people if they allow someone else to choose it for them.

[stalepie]

RIP? Are you kidding me? He was a murderer. It is NOT right to put people to sleep even if they want to die.

[ClayTrainor]

RIP? Are you kidding me? He was a murderer. It is NOT right to put people to sleep even if they want to die.

Do you think the state should intervene?


http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Ron_Paul_Health_Care.htm

Voted NO on banning physician-assisted suicide.

Vote on HR 2260, the Pain Relief Promotion Act of 1999, would ban the use of drugs for physician-assisted suicide. The bill would not allow doctors to give lethal prescriptions to terminally ill patients, and instead promotes "palliative care," or aggressive pain relief techniques.

How do you feel about Ron Pauls vote on this issue?

[BamaAla]

RIP Doc.

[Anti Federalist]

Do you agree with this vote?

I see no inconsistency in RP's position here.

It is one thing to say, as a personal, moral choice, I will not be part of an "assisted suicide" plan.

It is entirely another to create a federal felony banning all or part of (in this case the required meds) such a procedure.

Regardless, I remain opposed to the idea. A sentient human being is not a rabid dog or horse with a broken leg.

And it will only be a matter of time before government realizes what it's been missing and starts promoting the idea.

And once that happens...

[ClayTrainor]

Ii see no inconsistency on RP's position here. It is one thing to say, as a personal, moral choice, I will not be part of an "assisted suicide" plan.

I think we agree here. To me, his position on this is likely very similar to his position on the war on drugs. He personally condemns the use of drugs and would not engage in such behavior himself, but does not feel that coercive force and state intervention are solutions to something that is done between consenting adults, even if he disagrees with it.


Regardless, I remain opposed to the idea. A sentient human being is not a rabid dog or horse with a broken leg.

The main difference is that Animals can't consent. Humans can.

If a human is suffering with a terminal illness (like my grandpa in post 88 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?296514-RIP-Jack-Kevorkian&p=3317194&viewfull=1#post3317194)), and they consent to assisted suicide, do you feel that someone should have authority to intervene and prevent this from happening?


And it will only be a matter of time before government realizes what it's been missing and starts promoting the idea.

And once that happens...

When government does anything at all, innocent people generally suffer and die, lol. What I'm talking about has absolutely nothing to do with government and everything to do with the individual though. :)

[brandon]

RIP? Are you kidding me? He was a murderer. It is NOT right to put people to sleep even if they want to die.

Why not? What if someone has a terminal illness and have an agonizing 3 months left in front of them? Should they not be allowed to off themselves? Can they not seek medical advice about the least painful way to do so?

[pacelli]

Kidney failure. Lucky SOB. What a great way to die.

[pacelli]

RIP? Are you kidding me? He was a murderer. It is NOT right to put people to sleep even if they want to die.

Actually from your standpoint, it would be BETTER to put people to sleep, rather than KILL THEM, even if they want to die. Right? Your language is confusing the issue.

[tpreitzel]

Since I have the honor of being placed on some member's ignore list, I do want to elaborate on this issue a bit more because that particular member is badly confused. Chronic suffering is a terrible condition which I personally would assist to relieve to my fullest capacity as a fellow human. Just don't ask me to assist you in death. Have the courage and faith to sustain you while I do everything possible to make your life as bearable as possible until your life's natural end. Thankfully, both the men in the military and my family have NEVER succumbed to the weakness of asking me to suffer the possible guilt of helping them die. I thank God for their courage and their lives and have shed more tears of grief over their conditions that I can recall. The pain of their suffering STILL lingers with me and will likely always. They never asked me to assist their deaths even if willing which I'd never be ... and I thank God for these courageous souls.

[Meatwasp]

My husband died at HOME . He decided to confront the pain and you know what it eased up for him. What a brave wonderful inspiration he was to me. I hope I go the same way.

[pcosmar]

RIP? Are you kidding me? He was a murderer. It is NOT right to put people to sleep even if they want to die.


Join Date
Feb 2009
Posts
1

I find that very interesting.

I am opposed to Euthanasia. And to Eugenics in any form.

I am opposed to anyone (doctor/State) making the decision to "put someone down" for any reason.

I am not opposed to an individual deciding that on their own. That is a very personal, private and individual choice.
I have no issue with a physician assisting a terminal patient who has made that choice.

[Danke]

Anyone read his book? I haven't so I can't comment. But it seems he thinks the world population needs culling.

He was a Dr, as in MD right?

Also, see: https://www.ewtn.com/library/PROLENC/ENCYC109.HTM

Hippocratic Oath

Original
Greek Wikisource has original text related to this article:
Ἱπποκράτειος ὅρκος
Original, translated into English:[4]

“ I swear by Apollo, the healer, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath and agreement:
To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art.

I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.

I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.

But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.

I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.

In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.

All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.

If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot.

”Classic
Classic translation into English:[5]

“ I swear by Apollo the Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods, and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfill according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:
To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art–if they desire to learn it–without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken the oath according to medical law, but to no one else.

I will apply dietic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody if asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep myself holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfill this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honoured with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.

[Danke]

Y'all understand why we have the "Hippocratic Oath" right?

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

He was also a Jazz musician


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opwu9BA8IUY

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

The right to end your own life is inherent. Whether I agree with it or not is irrelevant. I don't consider Doctor Assisted Suicide (in this case, giving the person the method to do themselves in) to be Euthanasia. To me, the latter is ALWAYS done minus consent. The former, on the other hand REQUIRES consent.

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

Doctor assisted suicide goes on all the time with terminal patients. Never official. Usually with lethal doses of pain killers. Everyone involved knows whats happening. Nothing new.

[YumYum]

How can someone who is good health and wants to die, be of "sound mind"? I am referring to a 17 year old who doesn't want to live anymore.

I talked to a pharmacist about this, and he said that doctors do "assisted suicides" all the time. All they have to do is up the amount given in the morphine drip; inducing a coma, and the suffering patient soon dies.

[pacelli]

I find that very interesting.

I am opposed to Euthanasia. And to Eugenics in any form.

I am opposed to anyone (doctor/State) making the decision to "put someone down" for any reason.

I am not opposed to an individual deciding that on their own. That is a very personal, private and individual choice.
I have no issue with a physician assisting a terminal patient who has made that choice.

As a doctor I must say, bravo. While the laws are as they are, I agree that an individual's decision is a personal, private, and individual choice. It must be respected.

[YumYum]

Doctor assisted suicide goes on all the time with terminal patients. Never official. Usually with lethal doses of pain killers. Everyone involved knows whats happening. Nothing new.

You were thinking exactly what I was thinking! :)

[Philmanoman]

Well Meatwasp said he was a murderer so it must be true.

[low preference guy]

Don't care about Kevorkian or his fight for assisted suicide.

[Meatwasp]

[QUOTE=pcosmar;3317503]I find that very interesting.
Pcosmar why do you find that interesting. we all started as new members with one post. Geez

[low preference guy]

He killed no one. He made the person flip the switch themselves



- He never killed anyone, the patient flipped the switch

Not always.


On the November 22, 1998, broadcast of 60 Minutes, Kevorkian allowed the airing of a videotape he had made on September 17, 1998, which depicted the voluntary euthanasia of Thomas Youk, 52, who was in the final stages of ALS. After Youk provided his fully informed consent (a sometimes complex legal determination made in this case by editorial consensus) on September 17, 1998, Kevorkian himself administered Thomas Youk a lethal injection. This was highly significant, as all of his earlier clients had reportedly completed the process themselves. During the videotape, Kevorkian dared the authorities to try to convict him or stop him from carrying out mercy killings

Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian#Conviction_and_imprisonment)

It's kind of funny when people who aren't even familiar with basic facts about a person, not even those in his wikipedia entry, go on and call him a hero.

[Meatwasp]

Y'all understand why we have the "Hippocratic Oath" right?
Thanks for putting things finally straight.

[low preference guy]

Do you agree with this vote?

States jurisdiction.

[VIDEODROME]

For Anyone interested, HBO recently made a movie about his life, starring Al Pacino.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1132623/

Interested. Is it well done?

I have to admit HBO has a track record of surprisingly good made for TV movies.

[pcosmar]

I find that very interesting.
Pcosmar why do you find that interesting. we all started as new members with one post. Geez

I find it interesting that someone that signed up over 2 years ago posts for the first time,,, in this thread.

[low preference guy]

I find it interesting that someone that signed up over 2 years ago posts for the first time,,, in this thread.

Who cares who posted what in his first thread.

[pcosmar]

Don't care about Kevorkian or his fight for assisted suicide.


Who cares who posted what in his first thread.

Apparently you cared enough to post twice that you don't care.

[low preference guy]

Apparently you cared enough to post twice that you don't care.

Yeah, I don't care the number of a post, I care about the actual argument.

[Meatwasp]

I find it interesting that someone that signed up over 2 years ago posts for the first time,,, in this thread.
He finally felt passionate about something.

[pcosmar]

He finally felt passionate about something.

Perhaps,
I just found it interesting and wondered how many more sleepers there are.

[Anti Federalist]

Kidney failure. Lucky SOB. What a great way to die.

Yeah, just like Osama bin Lade...oh wait...

[Anti Federalist]

When government does anything at all, innocent people generally suffer and die, lol. What I'm talking about has absolutely nothing to do with government and everything to do with the individual though. :)

I understand.

What I'm talking about is the concept of euthanasia become a societal norm.

And then government getting it's hands on it.

C'mon folks, we all know where this is heading.

[low preference guy]

If Matt Drudge started this thread, he would've titled it "DR. DEATH DEAD".

[Danke]

I understand.

What I'm talking about is the concept of euthanasia become a societal norm.

And then government getting it's hands on it.

C'mon folks, we all know where this is heading.

As long as it is limited to gay sailors or fat chicks, I don't have a problem with it.

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

I don't see why anyone would be against doctor assisted suicide.

[LibertyEagle]

Best news I heard in a long time. Now he has the opportunity to STUDY death.

First comment in the thread that I agreed with. lolol.

[Kludge]

Fifteen pages in a RIP thread. He certainly accomplished his goal of getting assisted suicide legalization in public discussion.

[Brian4Liberty]

Doctor assisted suicide goes on all the time with terminal patients. Never official. Usually with lethal doses of pain killers. Everyone involved knows whats happening. Nothing new.

Yep.

But let's turn it into a political red herring. It's what our masters want.

[LibertyEagle]

Do you think the state should intervene?

How do you feel about Ron Pauls vote on this issue?

Paul voted like he always does. He voted against the federal government intervening in the doctor-patient relationship. That does not mean he supports physician-assisted suicide.

[low preference guy]

Paul voted like he always does. He voted against the federal government intervening in the doctor-patient relationship. That does not mean he supports physician-assisted suicide.

I don't think he voted for it becaue he didn't want to intervene in the doctor-patient relationship. I think he voted for it because he didn't want to overwrite states laws.

[UWDude]

R.I.P.

watch

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/suicidetourist/view/

Chapter 1
Craig and Mary Ewert
Not long after his ALS diagnosis, Craig began considering suicide and together they talked a lot about it -- 'Do I really want to do this?'

[UWDude]

"Oh, please, PLEASE, help me die. I just can't continue living this way. Boo Hoo Hoo, please relieve me of this agony!" :"Give me a shot, anything, but don't ask me to just stop eating or drinking and suffer until I die!" "I want to die fat, dumb, and happy, but QUICKLY so please help me".... "In other words, I don't give a damn whether you must live with helping me die, just do it because I'm a chickenshit and misery loves company, but I get to die and you get to live even with the psychological impact of being an accomplice to murder."

Troll lo la la, la la la la!