Raw Story Headline: Budget cuts force Calif. police and firemen to watch man drown

[Liberty Rebellion]

LOL I can't believe I used to be a regular reader of theirs. They have become such a progressive crap hole of a website, though from time to time they have good articles. Most of the comments on this are so ridiculous


Police and firemen in Alameda, California watched a man drown on Monday after realizing they did not have proper certifications for water rescue, leaving them open to possible lawsuits if they attempted to save him.

The drowning victim, 53-year-old Raymond Zack, was apparently suicidal, according to a report from the scene. He waded out about 150 yards into cold waters off Crown Beach in Alameda and took about an hour to drown himself.

A crowd of about 75 gathered to watch the bizarre scene, which saw police and firemen just standing at shoreline watching helplessly. After the man had drowned, authorities couldn’t even go into the surf to retrieve the body. They instead recruited a passer-by for the job.

City officials reportedly blamed the incident on budget cuts and said they would have a discussion about why Alameda, an island city, does not have proper authorization to rescue people from the waters surrounding it.


http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/06/calif-police-and-firemen-watch-man-drown-due-to-budget-cuts/

[RM918]

Who's fault is it that you need certification to do so and that you can be sued for it?

[specsaregood]

So fire the people without proper certification and hire people that got the proper certification on their own dime.
I pay for my own continuing education.

[Kylie]

They all need to be brought up on charges. At the least, shitcanned.

BUDGET CUTS DO NOT STOP YOU FROM SAVING SOMEONES LIFE.

Isn't there a law that says you must help in a situation like this? Or is that only in Europe?

I remember something about it years ago.

[Yieu]

There are people who believe it is a result of budget cuts? Hah! It is so clearly due to the fact that there exists a "certification for water rescue" as a requirement at all!

Remove the certification and other regulations, and naturally save the taxpayer's money.

Aren't Firemen supposed to be volunteers anyway?

[specsaregood]

There are people who believe it is a result of budget cuts? Hah!
Combine this story with this story:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?296192-California-s-100-000-Pension-Club-of-Public-Retirees-in-California-Quadruples-Since-2005&highlight=figure

And you'll see why that dog won't hunt much longer.

[aGameOfThrones]

They all need to be brought up on charges. At the least, shitcanned.

BUDGET CUTS DO NOT STOP YOU FROM SAVING SOMEONES LIFE.

Isn't there a law that says you must help in a situation like this? Or is that only in Europe?

I remember something about it years ago.

The Myth of Police Protection (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?228509-The-Myth-of-Police-Protection&highlight=Myth+police+protection)

[JK/SEA]

Hmmm...should've had SWAT there. ''you are being ordered to come ashore'' then when he refuses, shoot him. Problem solved.

[awake]

Ya, those privatized fire departments would just let people die if they were not paid their evil capitalist monopoly rate. The order followers strike again.

Thow shalt not provide service with out minimum staffing as per the collective agreement.

[Liberty Rebellion]

There are people who believe it is a result of budget cuts? Hah! It is so clearly due to the fact that there exists a "certification for water rescue" as a requirement at all!


Apparently. Read some of the comments at the link, but prepare your forehead for many FACEPALMS

[gls]

The guy killed himself. There isn't much anyone can do if someone is committed to suicide.

[sailingaway]

Seems to me the guy died due to insane requirements for 'proper certificates' to save someone's life, not because of budget cuts.

[awake]

Seems to me the guy died due to insane requirements for 'proper certificates' to save someone's life, not because of budget cuts.

Who sets the proper certification level? A state backed standards association - NFPA.

This was most likely a collective agreement issue on proper staffing preventing operations as per a written standard. There is such thing as a minimum amount of firefighters before a "safe" interior fire attack and rescue can take place.

[awake]

Regardless of the facts, this is perfect political propaganda to help in collective bargaining and to stop austerity measures leveled against state employees as revenues dwindle.

The battle cry of the demagogs are basically this: 'Look what happens when we cut back of our emergency response personnel to save a few dollars'. And I would point out, any talk of private services always gets attacked for its horrifyingly selfish choice of dollars over life as the primary reason to prevent the market from delivering these services. Here you have it for real.

[Yieu]

Regardless of the facts, this is perfect political propaganda to help in collective bargaining and to stop austerity measures leveled against state employees as revenues dwindle.

The battle cry of the demagogs are basically this: 'Look what happens when we cut back of our emergency response personnel to save a few dollars'. And I would point out, any talk of private services always gets attacked for its horrifyingly selfish choice of dollars over life as the primary reason to prevent the market from delivering these services. Here you have it for real.

It sounds to me like the police and firemen are just using this as a scapegoat to get more funding. This event has nothing to do with their budgets; all it did was show that they don't mind killing a man to make a political point (their desire for more money). They could have saved him regardless.

[olehounddog]

That's why 1 of our local fire depts got a million dollar Homeland Sec. grant. So all the firemen could be properly certified. What a @$#^ing joke. It also protects their ego by making some think throwing a floatation devise to some one in need takes some kind of extra special skill and knowledge. Got to be CERTIFIED.

[Brian4Liberty]

...leaving them open to possible lawsuits...

Selective fear of lawsuits. How nice. They don't worry about lawsuits when they send SWAT teams out to shoot innocent civilians.

[sailingaway]

That's why 1 of our local fire depts got a million dollar Homeland Sec. grant. So all the firemen could be properly certified. What a @$#^ing joke. It also protects their ego by making some think throwing a floatation devise to some one in need takes some kind of extra special skill and knowledge. Got to be CERTIFIED.

Volunteer fire departments sounding better all the time.... can you imagine Jim the hardware store owner saying 'gee, I can't throw this floatation device, I didn't take the advanced course!'

[awake]

If one understands what minimum wage does to all those who seek employment and for all of those who seek these policies, then you will understand what minimum education an certification requirements do for the holders of these 'rights of passage'.

Minimum education requirements and certification seem to keep rising mysteriously like the minimum wage. It takes 4 years to learn to become what took 2 years not long ago... see the scam?

[squarepusher]

The guy killed himself. There isn't much anyone can do if someone is committed to suicide.

yeah that was my take.

[A Son of Liberty]

I hope the guy's family sues the hell out of the city, and each fire/policeman who stood by and watched him drown.

[goRPaul]

They claim the man was attempting to commit suicide. Who decides to commit suicide in broad daylight with hundreds of people watching? This is ludicrous- I do not believe this man was suicidal.

The Police, Fire Department, and Coast Guard all got paid for their non-effort, and no one is losing their job.

We're on our own.

[Danke]

All beaches should be closed to prevent these type of horrific incidents from happening.

[QueenB4Liberty]

This is just ridiculous. Whether he was trying to commit suicide or not, for 75 people including people that could have saved him to just watch him die is disgusting. I'm not saying anyone was obligated to help him, just that I am disgusted.

[Brian4Liberty]

I know that beach. He's lucky he didn't get mugged.

[KingRobbStark]

:D


I know that beach. He's lucky he didn't get mugged.

lol

[outspoken]

He wasn't drowning but killing himself intentionally. While such public service people are noble in profession, When people make a decision to kill themselves the responsibility to save their life should note be transferred to another party at the risk of loosing their own life. While tragic, I think a greater tragedy would be to see someone loose the life trying to save someone who has determined that they don't value their own enough to live it out.

[MelissaCato]

I can't believe noone just went in and saved him. Gezzzz I would have. But then again, they prolly have certification to shoot me. :rolleyes:

[AFPVet]

Isn't there a law that says you must help in a situation like this? Or is that only in Europe?

I remember something about it years ago.

You are referring to the 'Good Samaritan Laws' and yes, most states have these.