Would you take this deal? Part 1

[progressiveforpaul]

What if, instead of extending the current income tax rates, we decreased tax rates for all brackets and had only 4 income tax brackets of 5, 10, 20 and 30 percent but taxed spending (not income) over 1 million dollars annually at 10 percent? Would you agree to that if the only alternative were to keep the current rates of 10, 15, 25, 28, 33, 35 percent? Let me know in the comment section.

[Krugerrand]

What if, instead of extending the current income tax rates, we decreased tax rates for all brackets and had only 4 income tax brackets of 5, 10, 20 and 30 percent but taxed spending (not income) over 1 million dollars annually at 10 percent? Would you agree to that? Let me know in the comment section.

That sounds like a good way to discourage the sale of goods and services. Is that your intent?

[pcosmar]

What if, instead of extending the current income tax rates, we decreased tax rates for all brackets and had only 4 income tax brackets of 5, 10, 20 and 30 percent but taxed spending (not income) over 1 million dollars annually at 10 percent? Would you agree to that? Let me know in the comment section.

No.
There is NO equality in multiple "brackets".
I prefer to cut Government spending to spare change levels.

[CaptUSA]

I understand your intent here to keep taxes progressive, but your plan doesn't make sense. Currently the bottom tax bracket pays nothing so 5% would be an increase. Further, you'd have a lot of purchases made overseas if you taxed income AND spending. A rich person would spend up to the million dollars on things he had to buy here and then spend the rest overseas.

If you haven't figured it out yet, people (and businesses) operate by incentives and when you change the incentives, you change the operations. That's why it is ALWAYS a bad idea to try to use legislate economics. The same way it's bad to legislate morality.

Believe in freedom and you wouldn't have to question which tax plan works best.

[oyarde]

I may consider that if Federal spending was restricted to article one , section eight and the remainder refunded and cut to that level ....

[freshjiva]

What if, instead of extending the current income tax rates, we decreased tax rates for all brackets and had only 4 income tax brackets of 5, 10, 20 and 30 percent but taxed spending (not income) over 1 million dollars annually at 10 percent? Would you agree to that? Let me know in the comment section.

The only way I'd agree to this is if we also cut capital gains taxes from 15% to 5%.

But here's the best solution: eliminate all personal income and capital gains taxes.

[Krugerrand]

The only way I'd agree to this is if we also cut capital gains taxes from 15% to 5%.

But here's the best solution: eliminate all personal income and capital gains taxes.

Unless factored to inflation - capital gains taxes are beyond immoral.

[progressiveforpaul]

Freshja what if we did do away with all tax on capital gains and instead put in place 5 brackets of 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 for taxing only spending? If the alternative is keeping the current rates would you take that deal?

The only way I'd agree to this is if we also cut capital gains taxes from 15% to 5%.

But here's the best solution: eliminate all personal income and capital gains taxes.

[pcosmar]

Freshja what if we did do away with all tax on capital gains and instead put in place 5 brackets of 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 for taxing only spending? If the alternative is keeping the current rates would you take that deal?

Why the different brackets. Should the more successful be punished more than the less successful?

What is your reasoning for the graduated brackets?

[Invi]

How would you know who spends over 1mil annually? I don't want gov't watching my purchases, or any other innocent citizen's.

[pcosmar]

How would you know who spends over 1mil annually? I don't want gov't watching my purchases, or any other innocent citizen's.

I don't think I want the merchants knowing my income either.

[RonPaulCult]

What if, instead of extending the current income tax rates, we decreased tax rates for all brackets and had only 4 income tax brackets of 5, 10, 20 and 30 percent but taxed spending (not income) over 1 million dollars annually at 10 percent? Would you agree to that if the only alternative were to keep the current rates of 10, 15, 25, 28, 33, 35 percent? Let me know in the comment section.

Dr. Progressive,

I used to be you. Well, at least I used to be a Nader/Kucinich far-left green party leftist. I don't know if that describes you.

I've seen a bunch of your posts around here. I'm glad to have you as a Paul supporter. Here's the thing: Stop talking about the need to tax tax tax tax tax.

Start focusing on ending the wars. Start focusing on ending our empire around the world.

You keep trying to make it about how to raise taxes (especially on the rich) instead of realizing that we could have EVERY LAST social program you can imagine, and STILL get rid of the income tax if we'd just bring our troops home from around the world.

Why keep tax levels the same? It can ONLY mean the wars will continue. To end the taxes = ending the war loving empire. Think about it....I mean SERIOUSLY reflect on it.

[CaptUSA]

Dr. Progressive,

I used to be you. Well, at least I used to be a Nader/Kucinich far-left green party leftist. I don't know if that describes you.

I've seen a bunch of your posts around here. I'm glad to have you as a Paul supporter. Here's the thing: Stop talking about the need to tax tax tax tax tax.

Start focusing on ending the wars. Start focusing on ending our empire around the world.

You keep trying to make it about how to raise taxes (especially on the rich) instead of realizing that we could have EVERY LAST social program you can imagine, and STILL get rid of the income tax if we'd just bring our troops home from around the world.

Why keep tax levels the same? It can ONLY mean the wars will continue. To end the taxes = ending the war loving empire. Think about it....I mean SERIOUSLY reflect on it.

Good post. I think we've all been on intellectual journeys on our way to liberty. It's funny how in all matters, the best solution seems to be more liberty. I appreciate anyone who has travelled these roads.

[goRPaul]

This would not be acceptable. The income tax is slavery, and the graduated income tax is socialism. Adding a sales tax to an existing income tax is double-taxation, which unfortunately the majority of states have adopted. This kind of proposal is only good for big government.

But having gotten to know progressiveforpaul over the last few months, he IS a big government type. He's supporting Paul because after Paul ends the wars, he wants a socialist to pass the social programs he likes. ProgressiveforPaul, I would advise that you research and learn more about liberty, and to defend liberty instead of socialism.

[LibertyEagle]

What if, instead of extending the current income tax rates, we decreased tax rates for all brackets and had only 4 income tax brackets of 5, 10, 20 and 30 percent but taxed spending (not income) over 1 million dollars annually at 10 percent? Would you agree to that if the only alternative were to keep the current rates of 10, 15, 25, 28, 33, 35 percent? Let me know in the comment section.

No.

Why do you want brackets at all? As long as we have an income tax it should be a flat tax rate, with no deductions whatsoever. Those who make more money, would pay more money.

The tax rate would be 10% or less.

Do you have a problem with that? If so, why?

[LibertyEagle]

This would not be acceptable. The income tax is slavery, and the graduated income tax is socialism. Adding a sales tax to an existing income tax is double-taxation, which unfortunately the majority of states have adopted. This kind of proposal is only good for big government.

But having gotten to know progressiveforpaul over the last few months, he IS a big government type. He's supporting Paul because after Paul ends the wars, he wants a socialist to pass the social programs he likes. ProgressiveforPaul, I would advise that you research and learn more about liberty, and to defend liberty instead of socialism.

I owe you +rep.

[ChaosControl]

I guess I would, but I don't really like the idea of a federal sales tax. I could see a sales tax encouraging savings, which is good, but when it is taxed on 1m+, people who have that much don't really have an issue with savings anyway so I see no real benefit there. I still support it though since it'd be a tax cut for the poor and middle class. Overall though I dislike using tax to influence behavior, which a sales tax does when trying to get people to save more, just as savers credits do. But whatever, it is still better than now.

[IBleedNavyAndOrange]

What if, instead of extending the current income tax rates, we decreased tax rates for all brackets and had only 4 income tax brackets of 5, 10, 20 and 30 percent but taxed spending (not income) over 1 million dollars annually at 10 percent? Would you agree to that if the only alternative were to keep the current rates of 10, 15, 25, 28, 33, 35 percent? Let me know in the comment section.

How about this:

Anyone that advocates for more taxes must allow the government to extort all of their earnings for the year?

Progressive, fascist, communist, socialist, right wing, greenies, left wing.... they're all just different versions of the same collectivist cancer.

Why can't individuals keep what they earn and decide on their own what businesses they will frequent and what people or group of people they want to help?

Don't you understand that by advocating taking any portion of another mans labor, you automatically lose the argument when someone advocates taking 100% of your labor?

Why do you get a say in how my earnings are spent? Because you got 50.00000000001% of people to agree with you?

By that logic, if I got that same percentage I could vote for you to be in the chains I own for the rest of your life.

What that's not fair?

But but but but...... 1 more than 50% said it is!

[RM918]

I think P4P isn't necessarily forwarding what he personally believes so much as some sort of compromise between us and the more hardline progressive. I think it is an absolute shame that hardline progressive's number one worry isn't ending foreign wars or drug wars, it's making sure rich people are looted. They just have too much money to use it all on their own, we deserve it.

[JackieDan]

I like this topic..

However, I would suggest a different approach. First of all, the income tax for the middle class should be wiped out.
Although I believe taxing the very rich in a period of time would be fine to some extent in order to preserve a flawed system of welfare to promised receivers.

But this is what I would propose for a period of "re-construction":

1. Abolish the income tax for the entire middle class.
2. Keep the payroll tax extended until Social Security can be privatized.
3. Institute a "Above-middleclass-tax" of: 10 % for those earning $250,000 yr, 30 % for those having earnings of $1 million yr, and 60 % for billionaires.
4. Eliminate the corporate income tax.
5. Establish a nation-wide sales tax of 15 % for all items.

When the period of "re-construction" is over, and when all debts have been paid as well as deficits become surplus. I think we can now reconsider the overall Income-tax, payroll taxes etc. The sales tax should stay at around 5-10 % to pay for defense, and other small government-like functions.

[brandon]

Allow the federal government to institute a sales tax without getting rid of the income tax? Absolutely not.

This will increase the tax code, enforcers, and bureaucrats many times over. And it would only be a matter of time until both tax rates started increasing.

[JackieDan]

Allow the federal government to institute a sales tax without getting rid of the income tax? Absolutely not.

This will increase the tax code, enforcers, and bureaucrats many times over. And it would only be a matter of time until both tax rates started increasing.

I would rather have a sales tax of 15 % than income tax. I like the sales tax better because it's not enforcing you to pay taxes in a certain date or time, you decide whenever you want to pay your taxes.

[brandon]

How about abolishing 100% of all federal taxes and tarrifs and having a membership fee that the states would pay if they wanted to be in the union. The states would have to collect all the taxes then and would pay the feds for defense. Alternatively, they could simply not belong to the union.

I'm sure this is a bit idealistic though, and the union would bully all independent states into joining, just like they bully us all to compliance now.

[pcosmar]

Gahhhh!!

Cut Government. All of it.
put collection jars out for folks to throw change into.

[Teaser Rate]

Dr. Progressive,

I used to be you. Well, at least I used to be a Nader/Kucinich far-left green party leftist. I don't know if that describes you.

I've seen a bunch of your posts around here. I'm glad to have you as a Paul supporter. Here's the thing: Stop talking about the need to tax tax tax tax tax.

Start focusing on ending the wars. Start focusing on ending our empire around the world.

You keep trying to make it about how to raise taxes (especially on the rich) instead of realizing that we could have EVERY LAST social program you can imagine, and STILL get rid of the income tax if we'd just bring our troops home from around the world.

Why keep tax levels the same? It can ONLY mean the wars will continue. To end the taxes = ending the war loving empire. Think about it....I mean SERIOUSLY reflect on it.

This is just factually wrong. The Department of Defense makes up less than 20% of the Federal budget and the personal income tax accounts for more than 78% of the government's revenue.

[LibertyEagle]

I like this topic..

However, I would suggest a different approach. First of all, the income tax for the middle class should be wiped out.
Although I believe taxing the very rich in a period of time would be fine to some extent in order to preserve a flawed system of welfare to promised receivers.

But this is what I would propose for a period of "re-construction":

1. Abolish the income tax for the entire middle class.
2. Keep the payroll tax extended until Social Security can be privatized.
3. Institute a "Above-middleclass-tax" of: 10 % for those earning $250,000 yr, 30 % for those having earnings of $1 million yr, and 60 % for billionaires.
4. Eliminate the corporate income tax.
5. Establish a nation-wide sales tax of 15 % for all items.

When the period of "re-construction" is over, and when all debts have been paid as well as deficits become surplus. I think we can now reconsider the overall Income-tax, payroll taxes etc. The sales tax should stay at around 5-10 % to pay for defense, and other small government-like functions.

Sounds like a great way to get more wealthy people to move out of the country and to take their businesses with them.

[low preference guy]

How about abolishing 100% of all federal taxes and tarrifs and having a membership fee that the states would pay if they wanted to be in the union. The states would have to collect all the taxes then and would pay the feds for defense. Alternatively, they could simply not belong to the union.

You are surely in favor of slavery. Why do you want blacks to return to the plantations? (/s)

[Koz]

Nope, don't like it.