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FrankRep
06-01-2011, 08:09 AM
http://www.thenewamerican.com/images/stories2011/00columnists/walter_williams.jpg



For the past half-century, our nation has been doing precisely what brought down other great nations.


Do We Deserve Our Fate? (http://www.thenewamerican.com/opinion/walter-williams/7696-do-we-deserve-our-fate)

Walter Williams | The New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/)
01 June 2011

GunnyFreedom
06-01-2011, 04:54 PM
Yes.

Sola_Fide
06-01-2011, 04:54 PM
Yes.

Seconded.

LibertyEagle
06-01-2011, 04:58 PM
I so admire Walter Williams. What a patriotic man. :)

Pericles
06-01-2011, 05:00 PM
And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever: that considering numbers, nature and natural means only, a revolution of the wheel of fortune, an exchange of situation, is among possible events: that it may become probable by supernatural interference! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in such a contest.

Thomas Jefferson

Theocrat
06-01-2011, 05:08 PM
We're America, and we're exceptional. We're TOO BIG TO FAIL. [lol]

Live_Free_Or_Die
06-01-2011, 09:07 PM
Yes.

Bruno
06-01-2011, 09:12 PM
Great comment:


"We"??
Dr. Williams,

There is a strange notion that "we" are the government and the government some how reflects the decisions of its citizens. To a degree this is true like Jefferson said, but there is very little the government does right now that I would consider just or moral.

I am only 24 years old, but the decisions of those from generations before have bankrupted my generation's future. My vote is only one of hundreds of millions. I do not consent to the majority of the government's activities, and I do not feel responsible for what the government has done because I have no voice in government.

Even "people" is not a single thing. There is no collective "thought" but a variety of individuals. Those who have advocated private property rights (like Ron Paul) have been cast aside as if they were crazy and otherwise ignored.

Why should one person be held responsible for the actions of others?

I do not deserve this fate. Nor does my generation.

-Dave
*

Vessol
06-01-2011, 09:12 PM
Who is a "we"?

I'm not a "we".

Are you a "we"?

GunnyFreedom
06-01-2011, 09:17 PM
I don't know about y'all but you know how the English language only has one word for "you?" In almost every other language they break it down into "you" and "y'all." To me, there are likewise two different "we." Maybe even "we" and "we'all." I recognize it as a different sense of the word, just like you singular and you plural. It's we singular and we plural. they probably ought to have another word for it in English just like we ought to have a word for y'all.

But the question makes perfect sense to me...

Vessol
06-01-2011, 09:21 PM
The actions were not taken on my behave or request, I fail to see how I deserve the consequences of these actions.

GunnyFreedom
06-01-2011, 09:25 PM
The actions were not taken on my behave or request, I fail to see how I deserve the consequences of these actions.

we'all the nation deserve what we'all get because we'all whether through apathy or intent keep putting the bastards in power. We, you and me have nothing the hell to do with it, and those bastards deserve everything they get I just wish they wouldn't try to take us down with them. You, are actively fighting against the disease, and therefore deserve honor and reward rather than the consequences of a failing and decadent nation.

it's a long conjugation...


ETA - I'm serious. "we"-s and "we"-pl are different words in English just like "you"-s and "you"-pl

whether Websters acknowledges it or not, the we'all and we separation is a consciously recognized thought in the American culture.

It's seriously a different word. It's the pronoun for "America." Almost nobody confuses it with the singular we.

Vessol
06-01-2011, 09:30 PM
we'all the nation deserve what we'all get because we'all whether through apathy or intent keep putting the bastards in power. We, you and me have nothing the hell to do with it, and those bastards deserve everything they get I just wish they wouldn't try to take us down with them. You, are actively fighting against the disease, and therefore deserve honor and reward rather than the consequences of a failing and decadent nation.

it's a long conjugation...

I'd say that I won't feel much pity when an old pensioner does not get his social security check. Afterall, for dozens of years he was warned that money was not stored away and that it goes into direct revenue.

Deserve though? That is a powerful word indeed.

I do not really wish to be on the line where I can declare who deserves what. From there only arises elitism.

Pericles
06-01-2011, 09:31 PM
The actions were not taken on my behave or request, I fail to see how I deserve the consequences of these actions.

Fairness has nothing to do with it. You are here and now, so you will be affected by what happens.

GunnyFreedom
06-01-2011, 09:33 PM
I'd say that I won't feel much pity when an old pensioner does not get his social security check. Afterall, for dozens of years he was warned that money was not stored away and that it goes into direct revenue.

Deserve though? That is a powerful word indeed.

I do not really wish to be on the line where I can declare who deserves what. From there only arises elitism.

We'all (The nation America) deserves it for her self immolation. Joe the pensioner is the a victim of a crime.

Vessol
06-01-2011, 09:35 PM
We'all (The nation America) deserves it for her self immolation. Joe the pensioner is the a victim of a crime.

I consider myself an American insofar as this is the geographic location where my parents by happen-chance ended up procreating XD.


Fairness has nothing to do with it. You are here and now, so you will be affected by what happens.

Oh I understand that. But I feel the semantics are a bit off. I really do not like the collectivization of guilt or anything else.

GunnyFreedom
06-01-2011, 09:37 PM
Fairness has nothing to do with it. You are here and now, so you will be affected by what happens.

This. Like a part of an organism, everything touches everybody within the borders of the United States. If fedgov collapses, it will cause additional strain on you the individual to gather food, defend your home etc. A closed system, and a law of physics like entropy. That is the basis for the existence of the we-plural. Problem with the children today is they conflate the we singular and we plural, and it leads to social collectivism. Recognizing the effective nature of reality is not collectivism. If the trucks break down the food will stop. It doesn't make "truck" a class to treat collectively...

Pericles
06-01-2011, 09:39 PM
I consider myself an American insofar as this is the geographic location where my parents by happen-chance ended up procreating XD.



Oh I understand that. But I feel the semantics are a bit off. I really do not like the collectivization of guilt or anything else.

Implied in the question is what has been done to prevent the impending disaster. One may be morally blameless, but as we are social beings, the concept of no man is an island comes into play.

Vessol
06-01-2011, 09:40 PM
This. Like a part of an organism, everything touches everybody within the borders of the United States. If fedgov collapses, it will cause additional strain on you the individual to gather food, defend your home etc. A closed system, and a law of physics like entropy. That is the basis for the existence of the we-plural. Problem with the children today is they conflate the we singular and we plural, and it leads to social collectivism. Recognizing the effective nature of reality is not collectivism. If the trucks break down the food will stop. It doesn't make "truck" a class to treat collectively...

Fair enough. That's why everyone with a bit of sense should be stocking up on at least a few months food, a decent stock of sound money, and a firearm or two.