question for the Biblicians, can mankind delay the inevitable World Gov?

[tnvoter]

ok, I know this is General Politics... but the "christian right" is targeted quite often by the typical liberal, and I find an interesting argument with most Christians I know.

When I'm discussing big government, world issues, a lot of the Christians I talk to (I consider myself a Christian btw), write off a lot of the concerns we have as libertarian/small government conservatives as simply being inevitable signs of the times issues, that can't be helped.

Even with recent minority Christian beliefs like a worldly-time-scaled predictable rapture proven to be false (I also believe in a only God the Father knows the time rapture), we have Christians who believe that the time is so near that it IS OK TO BE APATHETIC.

This is the heart of my post.. how can we convince those folks who are willing to just let it go back and forth between big government party politicians with the notion that "hey it's the end times and we can't do anything let's just vote on the lesser evil".

THUS, I reach out to those who can help me convince those folks fore-mentioned that our actions may delay the "end times", possibly even the inevitable during our lifetimes. I know a decent amount about what I consider to be the Holy texts.. so please surprise me, and assist me, or God help us.

[James Madison]

If it is the will of God then so be it.

However, we all have a personal duty to oppose evil and tyranny regardless of the circumstances.

[Vessol]

Sorry, but I have to ask this.

WTH is a 'Biblician'?

That sounds like some kind of sci-fi race.

[bunklocoempire]

I hear ya.


Can mankind delay the inevitable World Gov?


Physical death is inevitable, yet even the apathetic Christians will still feed themselves... I wonder why? Speaking of food....

My warning, and encouragement to them would be what John wrote about the church in Laodicea. Laodicea had NOT been a true witness to Jesus, they were apathetic and apparently comfortable with it.:(

Revalation 3:14-22

14“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.

15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other!

16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

17You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.

20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.

21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.

22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”



I've found this quite useful, have a look:

TODAY'S CHRISTIANS: NO HOPE IN GOD'S WAY

By Chuck Baldwin
July 9, 2008
NewsWithViews.com

I ask the indulgence of my non-churched readers, as this column is specifically designed to challenge the hearts and minds of professing believers.

The Old Testament prophet Jeremiah faced a generation that is very similar to the one we face today, I am afraid. Political and corporate leaders had given themselves over to corruption and duplicity. The fundamental underpinnings that founded and supported the nation were being dismantled. And the spiritual leaders seemed to be powerless to do anything about it...

http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin455.htm


Bunkloco

[AFPVet]

ok, I know this is General Politics... but the "christian right" is targeted quite often by the typical liberal, and I find an interesting argument with most Christians I know.

When I'm discussing big government, world issues, a lot of the Christians I talk to (I consider myself a Christian btw), write off a lot of the concerns we have as libertarian/small government conservatives as simply being inevitable signs of the times issues, that can't be helped.

Even with recent minority Christian beliefs like a worldly-time-scaled predictable rapture proven to be false (I also believe in a only God the Father knows the time rapture), we have Christians who believe that the time is so near that it IS OK TO BE APATHETIC.

This is the heart of my post.. how can we convince those folks who are willing to just let it go back and forth between big government party politicians with the notion that "hey it's the end times and we can't do anything let's just vote on the lesser evil".

THUS, I reach out to those who can help me convince those folks fore-mentioned that our actions may delay the "end times", possibly even the inevitable during our lifetimes. I know a decent amount about what I consider to be the Holy texts.. so please surprise me, and assist me, or God help us.

In Revelations, it explicitly states that you must resist and refuse the mark... if you merely go along with the NWO and receive the mark, you are done.

[TER]

question for the Biblicians, can mankind delay the inevitable World Gov?

Yes, it can be delayed. That is what we are fighting for.

[lynnf]

Yes, it can be delayed or even re-focused and there are scripture references that corroborate that.

1. Abraham intercession with respect to Sodom/Gomorrah - it got Lot and his family out before the destruction.
2. Jonah intercession for Ninevah (though he didn't want to) and Ninevah was spared destruction at that time.

This may be a factor in not knowing the time of the end -- intercession can vary the timing.
It might even be that some countries remain less affected than the rest of the world as it all goes
to pot and the end comes. "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

[Sola_Fide]

The book of Revelations wasn't written to us. It was written for us but not to us. It was written to first century Christians about things that were going to happen in their lifetimes.

Why Rapture Is Not In Revelation
http://americanvision.org/4156/why-the-rapture-is-not-in-revelation/

[Sola_Fide]

Also, these modern evangelical eschatologies reveal themselves as prophecies of doom. This world, to them, is going to hell in a handbasket, and it is even preferrable to "bring on the end" by checking out of this life and praying for things to get worse.

This is diametrically opposed to the dominion mandate in the Great Commission. It is our duty to make disciples of the nations through the power of the Spirit, and not even the gates of hell will stop us.

Consider the worldview of the Puritans and the Christians in the founding generation who were influenced by the Protestant Reformation. Their eschatology informed their view of this world. They saw it as their duty to take dominion of this world and reclaim it for Christ in every sphere of life, government included.

They had a firm reliance on Providence that they would not fail in capturing this world for Christ.

[MelissaCato]

ok, I know this is General Politics... but the "christian right" is targeted quite often by the typical liberal, and I find an interesting argument with most Christians I know.

When I'm discussing big government, world issues, a lot of the Christians I talk to (I consider myself a Christian btw), write off a lot of the concerns we have as libertarian/small government conservatives as simply being inevitable signs of the times issues, that can't be helped.

Even with recent minority Christian beliefs like a worldly-time-scaled predictable rapture proven to be false (I also believe in a only God the Father knows the time rapture), we have Christians who believe that the time is so near that it IS OK TO BE APATHETIC.

This is the heart of my post.. how can we convince those folks who are willing to just let it go back and forth between big government party politicians with the notion that "hey it's the end times and we can't do anything let's just vote on the lesser evil".

THUS, I reach out to those who can help me convince those folks fore-mentioned that our actions may delay the "end times", possibly even the inevitable during our lifetimes. I know a decent amount about what I consider to be the Holy texts.. so please surprise me, and assist me, or God help us.

I can give you my opinion. :cool:

Can Christians delay the inevitable world government ? I dunno about about all Christians in the world, but what I do know is America's Christians can stop the world government as dictated according to the Bible here in America. We might not be able to save the world yet, but America can save ourselves at this point. The Bible doesn't directly mention America, but it does directly mention the evil that will become of us. Jesus Christ wrote a letter to the Church in Philadelphia in Revelations telling us exactly what to do ... and what he will do. Soooo, there is definately a connection between the Bible and America as I see it, thanks to our Declaration of Independence.

Our Declaration of Independence, I believe, was an afore thought for the times we are now facing with cronyisms. Sure that Declaration was for Independence back in the day, but our founding fathers definately followed the past, present and future path as a true testament both old and new in the Bible with regards to Liberty and the words that inspired that document. Our trust is in God.

It's amazing to me to say the least knowing what I know, learned and still learning. And now finding Ron Paul wanting to bring all our troops home, no entangling alliances, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness ... this is all directly mentioned in the Bible and indirectly about America. Our founding fathers were genius if you care to know what I think, because they directly linked this country America with the Bible as a testament to freedom under a Creator. It's clear in the Old King James, the Declaration of Independence, US Constitution, Bill of Rights and most State Constitutions. Amazing.

I could go on all day posting narrow is the way and straight is the path, but I wouldn't want to bore you. (lol) God helps those who help themselves ya know. :rolleyes:

Also as I see it, it's evident we MUST elect Ron Paul in 2012 for this country to stand Independent from all the rest. Once we do that and save ourselves, we can save the world. That's too why I believe Ron Paul after ending his last campaign endorsed Chuck Baldwin. It is what it is. We can do this in 2012 and then maybe the Lords return will be to rejoice and not to revenge.

I'm just glad to be a part of it all. :D

[jmdrake]

ok, I know this is General Politics... but the "christian right" is targeted quite often by the typical liberal, and I find an interesting argument with most Christians I know.

When I'm discussing big government, world issues, a lot of the Christians I talk to (I consider myself a Christian btw), write off a lot of the concerns we have as libertarian/small government conservatives as simply being inevitable signs of the times issues, that can't be helped.

Even with recent minority Christian beliefs like a worldly-time-scaled predictable rapture proven to be false (I also believe in a only God the Father knows the time rapture), we have Christians who believe that the time is so near that it IS OK TO BE APATHETIC.

This is the heart of my post.. how can we convince those folks who are willing to just let it go back and forth between big government party politicians with the notion that "hey it's the end times and we can't do anything let's just vote on the lesser evil".

THUS, I reach out to those who can help me convince those folks fore-mentioned that our actions may delay the "end times", possibly even the inevitable during our lifetimes. I know a decent amount about what I consider to be the Holy texts.. so please surprise me, and assist me, or God help us.

Revelation was written for our times. I know my Calvinists friends disagree with this, but it's true. When you look at the description of Laodecia thinking it is "rich" and "increased with goods" and doesn't realize it is "poor and blind and naked", what period of Christianity does that address better than the modern day Christian world?

That said, here's what you should consider. Revelation 7 talks about 4 angels who "hold back the winds" of strife that would destroy the earth. And Revelation 14 talks about an angel flying in the midst of heaven having the "everlasting gospel to preach". Does that mean that angels are supposed to be the ones carrying the gospel? Of course not. Christ gave the great commission to his followers. Revelation 22:9 makes this clear when the angel talking to John tell him that the angels are "fellow servants" to the prophets. So when a Christian spreads the gospel he is doing the work of angels. Well if Christians can do the work of angels by spreading the gospel, then why can't they do the work of angels by helping to hold back the winds of strife?

The other thing to consider is that while we may think we are living in the end times, we can't know that for sure. To many World War II with its horrible abuses and massive destruction seemed like the end. But it wasn't.

Therefore the only safe course for the Christian is to actively resist tyranny. If we are in the end times then you are helping to hold back the winds of strife long enough for God's servants to be sealed. If we are not in the end times then you're going to feel stupid 30 years from now if you gave up your rights because you prematurely thought you were going to be raptured away and it didn't matter.

[pcosmar]

I believe it is an inevitable eventuality.
But I also believe it can be both delayed and resisted.

I am resistance.