Breaking: Adam Kokesh just got arrested (May 28, 2011)

[tangent4ronpaul]

http://dailypaul.com/166160/breaking-adam-kokesh-just-got-arrested-about-an-hour-ago

FWD:
I don't have all the details, so if someone else does, please feel free to update accordingly. Apparently, he and about 6 people tried to organize a "flash mob" and dance (no music) at the Jefferson Memorial. They were manhandled and arrested after quietly refusing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PDhjNF9eUQ

[sirgonzo420]

Lol

[Matthew Zak]

Go adam!

[Ekrub]

I'm assuming he is embracing his RT gig and not running for office then? a bit childish if you ask me. I would prefer him to not get Involved in childish escapades because I think he is a smart guy with a lot of potential. Hate to see him throw away his chances at office so that he can demonstrate the "police state" to those who are already very familiar with the abuses. I might get flamed for this, but I seriously doubt that the effectiveness that this will have for the liberty movement.

[Kylie]

I'm assuming he is embracing his RT gig and not running for office then? a bit childish if you ask me. I would prefer him to not get Involved in childish escapades because I think he is a smart guy with a lot of potential. Hate to see him throw away his chances at office so that he can demonstrate the "police state" to those who are already very familiar with the abuses. I might get flamed for this, but I seriously doubt that the effectiveness that this will have for the liberty movement.



I say if the guy wants to dance, let him.

It won't change my mind one way or the other, that's what his ideas and principles are supposed to do.

[pcosmar]

This should be good for some Media coverage, and perhaps a law suit.

Quite Bizarre.

[raiha]

I'm assuming he is embracing his RT gig and not running for office then? a bit childish if you ask me. I would prefer him to not get Involved in childish escapades because I think he is a smart guy with a lot of potential. Hate to see him throw away his chances at office so that he can demonstrate the "police state" to those who are already very familiar with the abuses. I might get flamed for this, but I seriously doubt that the effectiveness that this will have for the liberty movement.
Dancing is peaceful. Give the guy a break, he is still soooo young. A guy of his young years should be dancing instead of becoming a killing machine. Good for you Adam.

[Ekrub]

I understand what his ideas and principles are, however in a libertarian society one would be able to take meth/heroine/ whatever and shout about how high you are. Doesn't make that a smart thing to do. I'm not so much concerned with the act as I am with him running for and winning office. I think that would be more effective for the liberty movement than this. With hypothetical freedom you are still expected to act responsibly. We are not endearing ourselves to the general populace with these charades

[raiha]

i understand what his ideas and principles are, however in a libertarian society one would be able to take meth/heroine/ whatever and shout about how high you are. Doesn't make that a smart thing to do. I'm not so much concerned with the act as i am with him running for and winning office. I think that would be more effective for the liberty movement than this. With hypothetical freedom you are still expected to act responsibly. We are not endearing ourselves to the general populace with these charades

good!

[pcosmar]

I understand what his ideas and principles are, however in a libertarian society one would be able to take meth/heroine/ whatever and shout about how high you are. Doesn't make that a smart thing to do. I'm not so much concerned with the act as I am with him running for and winning office. I think that would be more effective for the liberty movement than this. With hypothetical freedom you are still expected to act responsibly. We are not endearing ourselves to the general populace with these charades

Just how do you manage to equate a peaceful assembly at a national monument to " meth/heroine/ whatever and shout about how high you are."

How is that even applicable?

[AuH20]

I'm assuming he is embracing his RT gig and not running for office then? a bit childish if you ask me. I would prefer him to not get Involved in childish escapades because I think he is a smart guy with a lot of potential. Hate to see him throw away his chances at office so that he can demonstrate the "police state" to those who are already very familiar with the abuses. I might get flamed for this, but I seriously doubt that the effectiveness that this will have for the liberty movement.

I agree. He's jumping around like a jackass. If you want to engage the cops, I'll be right there standing besides you, but to prance around the Jefferson Memorial is extremely counterproductive.

[Ekrub]

The liberty movement for me isn't about being in a cool counter-culture where I can feel hip. It's about trying to convince enough of the population to move away from tyranny so that my daughter can live a free life with opportunity and outside a life of servitude. So no, for me, not good

[pcosmar]

Well he was released.

Adam Kokesh
I've been released from jail. Tragically, the officers involved still have to go home and be disgusting despicable people.

[Ekrub]

Just how do you manage to equate a peaceful assembly at a national monument to " meth/heroine/ whatever and shout about how high you are."

How is that even applicable?

In a free society, both would be allowed. Doesn't necessarily mean that a person running for office, thinking of running, or who represents part of a movement I.e. The liberty movement should be doing that. I'm talking about responsibility. Which is neccessaryu in a free society.

[Inkblots]

"Adam Kokesh
I've been released from jail. Tragically, the officers involved still have to go home and be disgusting despicable people."

I get the feeling that Adam, like a lot of people in the Liberty movement, seriously needs to take some time to read How to Win Friends and Influence People. Because, believe me, this ain't the way.

[pcosmar]

In a free society, both would be allowed. Doesn't necessarily mean that a person running for office, thinking of running, or who represents part of a movement I.e. The liberty movement should be doing that. I'm talking about responsibility. Which is neccessaryu in a free society.

Doing what?
Peacefully dancing at a National Memorial on Memorial Weekend?

Or filming the arrest of peaceful citizens who are committing NO CRIME?

[speciallyblend]

outlaw dancing that will stop the liberty movement dead in its tracks!!! kinda like dirty dancing but liberty dancing, now to have Adam kokesh make a video parody of dirty dancing called Liberty Dancing!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMC3ffwoMVE

Breaking News DHS outlaws dancing, Adam kokesh starring in a NEW HIT A cross between footloose and dirty dancing, Liberty Dancing Baby! coming to a theater near you SOON!!!

[MelissaCato]

OMG Adam got body slammed for freedom.

[speciallyblend]

OMG Adam got body slammed for freedom.

I am sure Adam and others got the names of the police officers!! They should hold their balls to the fire!!

[Maximus]

OMG Adam got body slammed for freedom.

Thread winner. Wish I was in DC.

[MelissaCato]

I love his cowboy boots too ... YeeeeHawwwww

[ammorris]

I doubt Adam is running for office again. Really, stuff like this is more down his alley than pandering for the Republican Grandma vote. I think we need a two-pronged attack: Guys like Rand running serious campaigns and getting into office, and guys like Adam drawing attention to how bad things have really gotten.

Besides, how do you fault a guy for peacefully enjoying a monument to liberty? He was out celebrating freedom at the Jefferson Memorial on Memorial Day weekend. It was only disruptive because the cops made it disruptive.

[libertybrewcity]

Lol, would he have done this as a congressman? That would have made the news.

[doctor jones]

I'm assuming he is embracing his RT gig and not running for office then? a bit childish if you ask me. I would prefer him to not get Involved in childish escapades because I think he is a smart guy with a lot of potential. Hate to see him throw away his chances at office so that he can demonstrate the "police state" to those who are already very familiar with the abuses. I might get flamed for this, but I seriously doubt that the effectiveness that this will have for the liberty movement.

I agree -- I support him doing this so long as his days of running for office are over.

[Matthew Zak]

Adam is trying to expose the police state to people. I 100% support him for doing that. He is fully aware of the consequences. He WENT there to get arrested and we all know that. He can handle his business. I don't think its childish at all. Pretty soon it will be childish to stay out curfew or have premarital sex.

[Ekrub]

Doing what?
Peacefully dancing at a National Memorial on Memorial Weekend?

Or filming the arrest of peaceful citizens who are committing NO CRIME?

None of the above. He shouldn't be risking turning off potential voters if he plans to run for office. As funny as it might be to see Ron or rand do this, do you think that would hurt or help the liberty movement? I only question how wise it is for him to do this given that the man is smart, charismatic, and in my opinion could run for and win a seat in congress. I'm not questioning the point he is trying to make. And if you had read my entire posts instead of cherrypicking sentences you would understand that.

[pcosmar]

None of the above. He shouldn't be risking turning off potential voters if he plans to run for office. As funny as it might be to see Ron or rand do this, do you think that would hurt or help the liberty movement? I only question how wise it is for him to do this given that the man is smart, charismatic, and in my opinion could run for and win a seat in congress. I'm not questioning the point he is trying to make. And if you had read my entire posts instead of cherrypicking sentences you would understand that.

Doing What?
What was he doing that has your friggin' panties in a bunch.

I mean other than having his rights violated .
What exactly was he doing?

Dancing?
Assembling with friends ?
Visiting a Memorial?
What?

[Ekrub]

Doing What?
What was he doing that has your friggin' panties in a bunch.

I mean other than having his rights violated .
What exactly was he doing?

Dancing?
Assembling with friends ?
Visiting a Memorial?
What?

Maybe you didn't see it in my last post.


None of the above. He shouldn't be risking turning off potential voters if he plans to run for office. As funny as it might be to see Ron or rand do this, do you think that would hurt or help the liberty movement? I only question how wise it is for him to do this given that the man is smart, charismatic, and in my opinion could run for and win a seat in congress. I'm not questioning the point he is trying to make. And if you had read my entire posts instead of cherrypicking sentences you would understand that.

[pcosmar]

Maybe you didn't see it in my last post.

That explains nothing.
How is being arrested for NO CRIME.
Having your rights violated.
And publicizing an unjust and violent arrest of peaceful citizens "turning off potential voters"?

Seems like that may get more people to look at the state of things.

[Ekrub]

That explains nothing.
How is being arrested for NO CRIME.
Having your rights violated.
And publicizing an unjust and violent arrest of peaceful citizens "turning off potential voters"?

Seems like that may get more people to look at the state of things.

You're right, I wish one of Ron's advisers had told him to pull this stunt. Then he would be the frontrunner for sure. /sarcasm

[Kylie]

While he may turn off some current potential voters, this little dancing thing may turn on just as many.

You will never please everyone, so why not enjoy yourself(until the cops beat you for it) and have a good time?

[BamaAla]

Poor guy. I jumped up and down out of excitement when I visited the Jefferson Memorial; glad I didn't get body slammed!

[pcosmar]

:D
Posted to his Facebook wall by someone,,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv3pCbAlEA0

:cool:

[AGRP]

I saw this this morning and didn't recognize that was him in the white shirt. lol.

[Zatch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5RXqqf9ivc



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jUU3yCy3uI

[Travlyr]

Poor guy. I jumped up and down out of excitement when I visited the Jefferson Memorial; glad I didn't get body slammed!

This is what I was thinking. When I went there, tons of teenagers were jumping up and down being loud screaming, singing, and being generally chaotic. Are they next?

[pcosmar]

You're right, I wish one of Ron's advisers had told him to pull this stunt. Then he would be the frontrunner for sure. /sarcasm

Adam is not Ron and is not running for President as far as I know.
And again,,, What Stunt?
What stunt was he pulling?
You have never answered that question.

He got arrested. He was NOT committing any crime.

Is it now considered a "stunt" to have your rights violated.

[Carehn]

wish i could have been with them. Not really my thing but if i was at the memorial I would have joined in.

[dannno]

Just how do you manage to equate a peaceful assembly at a national monument to " meth/heroine/ whatever and shout about how high you are."

How is that even applicable?

How do you give +rep on the mobile version of this site?

[Travlyr]

How do you give +rep on the mobile version of this site?
I'll give him one for ya.

Edit: Xcept I'm outta of bullets at the moment.

[tpreitzel]

I don't really agree with publicity stunts, either. One doesn't have to go looking for trouble, it'll find you regardless which was Adam's point, I'd guess.

[Ekrub]

Adam is not Ron and is not running for President as far as I know.
And again,,, What Stunt?
What stunt was he pulling?
You have never answered that question.


He got arrested. He was NOT committing any crime.

Is it now considered a "stunt" to have your rights violated.

While what the cops did was absurd and totally uncalled for, going to a national monument to try and incite the police by acting like a baffoon is not the behavior I would expect, and certainly not the behavior the average voter would expect from an aspiring congressman. If you are that out of touch with what I am saying that is your deal. I'm sorry. Then again it doesn't surprise me coming from you.

[dannno]

The liberty movement for me isn't about being in a cool counter-culture where I can feel hip. It's about trying to convince enough of the population to move away from tyranny so that my daughter can live a free life with opportunity and outside a life of servitude. So no, for me, not good

Why can't you understand that the whole frigging point of this is to expose the fact that we are living under tyranny? Most people don't get it yet, you need to trigger a light bulb in their head and show them.

Thanks Adam!

[pcosmar]

While what the cops did was absurd and totally uncalled for, going to a national monument to try and incite the police by acting like a baffoon is not the behavior I would expect, and certainly not the behavior the average voter would expect from an aspiring congressman. If you are that out of touch with what I am saying that is your deal. I'm sorry. Then again it doesn't surprise me coming from you.
So you are opposed to political action, such as Protests, Peaceful assembly, and Civil Disobedience.
Gotcha.
:(

[Carehn]

This is what I was thinking. When I went there, tons of teenagers were jumping up and down being loud screaming, singing, and being generally chaotic. Are they next?

Nun of us knew him but the spirit that i feel Jefferson represents would have loved loud screaming teens. He may have hated it but you know what i mean.

[Travlyr]

While what the cops did was absurd and totally uncalled for, going to a national monument to try and incite the police by acting like a baffoon is not the behavior I would expect, and certainly not the behavior the average voter would expect from an aspiring congressman. If you are that out of touch with what I am saying that is your deal. I'm sorry. Then again it doesn't surprise me coming from you.

Do you like the police state? When I went to D.C. I wanted to visit some of the buildings but I was carrying my water bottle. They would not let me in buildings with water! WTF? That is not freedom!

[Travlyr]

Nun of us knew him but the spirit that i feel Jefferson represents would have loved loud screaming teens. He may have hated it but you know what i mean.

I just got back from the D.C. area and visited Monticello. You are absolutely right on! He loved life... and loved to entertain.

[Karl]

Non-violent civil disobedience. It is the path to freedom and I support Adam in what he did. If this happened every day all day long for a long time, eventually you would be allowed to dance at the Jefferson Memorial.

[pcosmar]

I'll give him one for ya.

Edit: Xcept I'm outta of bullets at the moment.

Don't worry about it.
I have never posted for "rep".
It's raining (watering my seeds) today, so I'm inside,,, and sittin' here.

[Karl]

It doesn't matter, the question is this, Is it illegal to go to a national monument and act like a baffoon? Freedom is for all people, even baffoons.

[LibertyEagle]

Adam is not Ron and is not running for President as far as I know.
And again,,, What Stunt?
What stunt was he pulling?
You have never answered that question.

He got arrested. He was NOT committing any crime.

Is it now considered a "stunt" to have your rights violated.

Apparently, he was. Adam talked about it in this video.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?295635-Breaking-Adam-Kokesh-just-got-arrested-(about-an-hour-ago)&p=3305868&viewfull=1#post3305868

Listen, I think the court was wrong too, but the cops have the job of enforcing the law. It is our job as citizens to get the law changed. Frankly, I think the lead cop was pretty nice, all things considered. He warned them over and over and over again.

I know this won't be popular, but this really will not be viewed as something wonderful by most Republican voters that I know. They simply will not understand.

[pcosmar]

It doesn't matter, the question is this, Is it illegal to go to a national monument and act like a baffoon? Freedom is for all people, even baffoons.

No, the question is,,Just what is allowed? and what is not?

[Inkblots]

Listen, I think the court was wrong too, but the cops have the job of enforcing the law. It is our job as citizens to get the law changed. Frankly, I think the lead cop was pretty nice, all things considered. He warned them over and over and over again.

I know this won't be popular, but this really will not be viewed as something wonderful by most Republican voters that I know. They simply will not understand.
That's very true.

The irony in all this, of course, is that if statists didn't insist that all our great monuments and parks must be publicly owned, no one could have any objection to them kicking out people for acting disrespectfully. If the Jefferson Memorial was owned by some sort of non-state National Trust as private property, they could kick out dancers, protesters, buffoons, or anyone else they thought was behaving in a way not commensurate with the dignified atmosphere of the memorial.

[pcosmar]

Apparently, he was. Adam talked about it in this video.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?295635-Breaking-Adam-Kokesh-just-got-arrested-(about-an-hour-ago)&p=3305868&viewfull=1#post3305868

Listen, I think the court was wrong too, but the cops have the job of enforcing the law. It is our job as citizens to get the law changed. Frankly, I think the lead cop was pretty nice, all things considered. He warned them over and over and over again.

I know this won't be popular, but this really will not be viewed as something wonderful by most Republican voters that I know. They simply will not understand.

You know, I am getting really sick of "most repugnant voters".

Perhaps they will get exactly what they deserve.

[Carehn]

Many people seem to be saying something along the lines of how this was 'uncalled for' or that 'its not wise to go looking for trouble' And all of that may be true to an extent. That extent being your choice. I don't act up in front of cops just to do it. I take a profit loss analisis and then go from their.

But all of that is null and void. What you should be asking yourself is how would Jefferson fill about this, Seeing how its his flipen memorial. Im willing to bet he would not take the cops side on this....

And as far as dancing in a memorial. Do you really think that is how Jefferson would go about this? He would go to war with the government today!!! That is his track recored with tyrannical governments. Jefferson would probably think Adam and ALL OF US are a bunch of pussy's!!!

' O no! They are dancing in a memorial and disrespecting cops!'

What a bunch of pussy's we all are!

[torchbearer]

Apparently, he was. Adam talked about it in this video.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?295635-Breaking-Adam-Kokesh-just-got-arrested-(about-an-hour-ago)&p=3305868&viewfull=1#post3305868

Listen, I think the court was wrong too, but the cops have the job of enforcing the law. It is our job as citizens to get the law changed. Frankly, I think the lead cop was pretty nice, all things considered. He warned them over and over and over again.

I know this won't be popular, but this really will not be viewed as something wonderful by most Republican voters that I know. They simply will not understand.

officers have descretion in when they enforce the law. they could legally object to a law and not enforce it.
the defense of, i was only following orders when i butchered those children, doesn't work.

[Travlyr]

I know this won't be popular, but this really will not be viewed as something wonderful by most Republican voters that I know. They simply will not understand.

Are you sure it is still legal to be a Republican?

[tropicangela]

So if Ron and Carol Paul embrace at the Jefferson Memorial, swaying back and forth singing their own song, "dancing," and these cops slam him on the ground, what would you think?

‎"dancing... is a healthy exercise, elegant and very attractive for young people" ~ Thomas Jefferson

[speciallyblend]

You know, I am getting really sick of "most repugnant voters".

Perhaps they will get exactly what they deserve.

exactly the more i look at the gop . The more i realize the gop deserves obama unless they nominate Ron Paul!!

[HOLLYWOOD]

Love the Irony...

The very temple our Federal Overlords build(BTW, with stolen funds from the serfs/mundanes) for the founding father of; Freedoms, Liberties, and Human Rights... is the exact place where you're not allow to peacefully practice them. HAH!

If no citizen filed a complaint, this shows you the Authoritarian/Totalitarian Empire of Washington DC laws oppress anyone for any reason THEY deem.

Jefferson Is Rolling Over in his Grave!

[pcosmar]

exactly the more i look at the gop . The more i realize the gop deserves obama unless they nominate Ron Paul!!
This really is their last chance to do something right.
i am more concerned with the silent majority. Those that have not been heard from.
The population as a whole. And hoping to educate enough so that when TSHTF and things get serious, I will have a can of beans, some shelter and some information I can use as a guerrilla.
without the people, the militia will have no chance.

[matt0611]

Why is dancing banned at the Jefferson Memorial? How would a law about that even come about? Kind of random...

[Maximus]

I'm curious as to how they define "dancing"

[pcosmar]

I'm curious as to how they define "dancing"

Anything they say it is.
Freedom of expression is dead.

[Inkblots]

exactly the more i look at the gop . The more i realize the gop deserves obama unless they nominate Ron Paul!!

It's our job to convince them to nominate Dr. Paul. We won't accomplish that by calling them repugnant or uselessly provoking people.

[pcosmar]

From Facebook


When dancing is outlawed, only outlaws will dance.
;)

:cool:

[speciallyblend]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnQ8OxSGm1o&NR=1&feature=fvwp

watch out dance terrorists everywhere even in schools ooo noooooes

[LibertyEagle]

Are you sure it is still legal to be a Republican?

Look, I didn't say I agreed with it. I am just telling you the facts.

[LibertyEagle]

it's our job to convince them to nominate dr. Paul. We won't accomplish that by calling them repugnant or uselessly provoking people.

^^^
this!

[pcosmar]

Adam Kokesh
My citation reads, "dancing in a restricted area." That can't be true! The video clearly demonstrates I can't dance

Hehe
:D

[PermanentSleep]

None of the above. He shouldn't be risking turning off potential voters if he plans to run for office. As funny as it might be to see Ron or rand do this, do you think that would hurt or help the liberty movement? I only question how wise it is for him to do this given that the man is smart, charismatic, and in my opinion could run for and win a seat in congress. I'm not questioning the point he is trying to make. And if you had read my entire posts instead of cherrypicking sentences you would understand that.

I have an idea, how about you embrace liberty and let him be him and you go and be you. Obviously you can disapprove and voice your opinion, but you've done that now about 5 times already. Instead of continuing to express your disapproval, perhaps you could use your time to do something productive for the world, for liberty. It is truly irrelevant in a free society what you think of his dancing to no music in front of whatever object he so chooses so long as you don't personally own it.

[PermanentSleep]

officers have descretion in when they enforce the law. they could legally object to a law and not enforce it.
the defense of, i was only following orders when i butchered those children, doesn't work.

+1

[Travlyr]

Look, I didn't say I agreed with it. I am just telling you the facts.

All I was referring to was that you are a criminal, LibertyEagle. There are so many laws on the books that we are all criminals. There is no escape. Dancing shouldn't be a crime.

[Ekrub]

I have an idea, how about you embrace liberty and let him be him and you go and be you. Obviously you can disapprove and voice your opinion, but you've done that now about 5 times already. Instead of continuing to express your disapproval, perhaps you could use your time to do something productive for the world, for liberty. It is truly irrelevant in a free society what you think of his dancing to no music in front of whatever object he so chooses so long as you don't personally own it.

Me and pcosmar were having a back and forth. I don't know if you know how forums work or not, but usually in a thread where two people disagree there is more than one post per person. And I have no problem with civil disobedience and it really doesn't bother me that he did it in principle. However the reality is that Adam Kokesh is a very bright and charismatic individual who I think could run for and win an elected office (here is a sixth time for you) The average voter would watch that video and say "wow, what a jackass" not "wow, that was ironic. typical police brutality at a TJ memorial" Not everyone in the world thinks like us. I'd even go so far as to say not more than 10% of the population would see that video and take it as we take it. I just happen to think that something like this is better left to the grassroots and not someone who has potential to create change in Washington. If that makes me a civil liberty hating, civil disobedience raggin, statist neo-con lovin liberty hater to some of you... then, I guess you are entitled to your opinion.

[speciallyblend]

Me and pcosmar were having a back and forth. I don't know if you know how forums work or not, but usually in a thread where two people disagree there is more than one post per person. And I have no problem with civil disobedience and it really doesn't bother me that he did it in principle. However the reality is that Adam Kokesh is a very bright and charismatic individual who I think could run for and win an elected office (here is a sixth time for you) The average voter would watch that video and say "wow, what a jackass" not "wow, that was ironic. typical police brutality at a TJ memorial" Not everyone in the world thinks like us. I'd even go so far as to say not more than 10% of the population would see that video and take it as we take it. I just happen to think that something like this is better left to the grassroots and not someone who has potential to create change in Washington. If that makes me a civil liberty hating, civil disobedience raggin, statist neo-con lovin liberty hater to some of you... then, I guess you are entitled to your opinion.

all he has to do is get married or have several flings and the dancing is in the past!! Nothing to be concerned about until he dresses in drag like rudy!!!

[LibertyEagle]

You know, I am getting really sick of "most repugnant voters".

Perhaps they will get exactly what they deserve.

Thing is, we all will get it. That's the problem.

I thought we were trying to win a Republican nomination, here. Was I wrong?

[LibertyEagle]

All I was referring to was that you are a criminal, LibertyEagle. There are so many laws on the books that we are all criminals. There is no escape. Dancing shouldn't be a crime.

I agree that it shouldn't be a crime. No argument there. That however doesn't change the fact that Kokesh knew that what he organized was against the law and that he likely would be arrested. He was.

I applaud the effort in principle, but it's not going to gain us any points with any Republican VOTERS that I know.

[speciallyblend]

I agree that it shouldn't be a crime. No argument there. That however doesn't change the fact that Kokesh knew that what he organized was against the law and that he likely would be arrested. He was.

I applaud the effort in principle, but it's not going to gain us any points with any Republican VOTERS that I know.

this was the same argument used against the freedom riders!! I disagree!! Do not offend someone, if you do not get on the bus. They might change things or listen! bottom line if the gop doesn't nominate Ron Paul. Then the gop deserves everything they get!! Many in the gop are a lost cause so we need to encourage the supporters to join the gop since most of the gop republicans are just lost!! If dancing against an unjust law doesn't win us points with republicans odds are they will not be saved since they are big government!!

[jim49er]

I'm assuming he is embracing his RT gig and not running for office then? a bit childish if you ask me. I would prefer him to not get Involved in childish escapades because I think he is a smart guy with a lot of potential. Hate to see him throw away his chances at office so that he can demonstrate the "police state" to those who are already very familiar with the abuses. I might get flamed for this, but I seriously doubt that the effectiveness that this will have for the liberty movement.

This^^

[ForLibertyFight]

Props to Adam and his friends for using peaceful civil disobedience.

Hopefully, this will be widely publicized.

[speciallyblend]

Props to Adam and his friends for using peaceful civil disobedience.

Hopefully, this will be widely publicized.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjFhjbAOm2U&feature=fvst
would be interesting if we got ron paul supporters from everywhere to do the safety dance in legal places of course;) and then make a compilation video of some sort to expose the police state!

[Meatwasp]

Yeah but some of them were dancing naked


Just joking Hee

[pcosmar]

Thing is, we all will get it. That's the problem.

I thought we were trying to win a Republican nomination, here. Was I wrong?

I don't see Ron Paul compromising his principles or his message to coddle or pander to the ignorant.

Or perhaps you hadn't noticed. Ending the Wars, and the War on Drugs, and legalizing Freedom does not sit well with the GOP.

And I like that in Ron.

[speciallyblend]

I don't see Ron Paul compromising his principles or his message to coddle or pander to the ignorant.

Or perhaps you hadn't noticed. Ending the Wars, and the War on Drugs, and legalizing Freedom does not sit well with the GOP.

And I like that in Ron.

exactly if it wasn't for Ron Paul and these stances i would of never joined the corrupt gop!!

for your enjoyment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqh8e2KYIrU

I am gonna start dancing at the gop meetings:)

[iGGz]

Office of the Chief
Dwight E. Pettiford
1100 Ohio Drive S.W., Washington, D. C. 20242
202-619-7350

[terp]

That little girl in orange at the end of the video looked to be dancing! That 7 year old is skating on thin ice!

[jmdrake]

Apparently, he was. Adam talked about it in this video.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?295635-Breaking-Adam-Kokesh-just-got-arrested-(about-an-hour-ago)&p=3305868&viewfull=1#post3305868

Listen, I think the court was wrong too, but the cops have the job of enforcing the law. It is our job as citizens to get the law changed. Frankly, I think the lead cop was pretty nice, all things considered. He warned them over and over and over again.

I know this won't be popular, but this really will not be viewed as something wonderful by most Republican voters that I know. They simply will not understand.

Well Adam isn't running for office at the moment. And republican voters aren't the only voters in the country. As for the officers following the law, so what? These officers were following the law too.

http://dreamdogsart.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c192953ef010536dc7420970b-800wi

[Nate-ForLiberty]

We are not going to win our Republic back just by getting "votes". Even with Ron Paul elected we will still need to engage in civil disobedience. To say that this kind of action is unwise because it doesn't win votes is like saying brushing my teeth is unwise because it doesn't cause me to lose weight. It's a stupid argument.

If I had to choose between either dead beat losers who might vote or someone like Kokesh, I'd go with AK in a heartbeat. Did you see how AK stared that cop down and never said a word. That's what we fucking need. Rebels with out any god damn fear.

A better outcome to that event would have been a 1000 bystanders apprehending those cops and placing them under citizen's arrest for violating the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. THIS LAW SUPERSEDES ALL OTHER LAWS!

But were all still too chicken shit for that aren't we? We're all still worried about the bills and how we're going to eat, and protecting our little debt prison fiefdoms we call homes.

Fuck this bullshit.

[jmdrake]

Thing is, we all will get it. That's the problem.

I thought we were trying to win a Republican nomination, here. Was I wrong?

Yes. You are wrong. We are (or at least I am) trying to win our freedoms back. Ron Paul winning the GOP nomination can certainly help. But it's not the only think to do. And I don't see how Adam Kokesh getting arrested hurts Ron Paul one iota. He wasn't wearing a Ron Paul 2012 t-shirt for crying out loud! I'm sick of all of the stupid cat herding that goes around here and has been since the beginning. It's just silly. What hurts Ron's chances of winning is him doing things like questioning the OBL raid or making answering the heroin/prostitute question the way he did. Don't get me wrong. I totally approve. But I realize that Ron's words are what's going to be used against him in 30 second attack ads if the establishment sees him as a credible threat and not Adam Kokesh dancing at the Jefferson Memorial. Ron won't lose any voters from this that he hasn't already lost. In fact most people who might see the video won't even make the association between Kokesh and Ron. On the other hand some independent or liberal youngster might see this, think it's "cool", start learning about Kokesh and end up learning about liberty.

[AuH20]

Yes. You are wrong. We are (or at least I am) trying to win our freedoms back. Ron Paul winning the GOP nomination can certainly help. But it's not the only think to do. And I don't see how Adam Kokesh getting arrested hurts Ron Paul one iota. He wasn't wearing a Ron Paul 2012 t-shirt for crying out loud! I'm sick of all of the stupid cat herding that goes around here and has been since the beginning. It's just silly. What hurts Ron's chances of winning is him doing things like questioning the OBL raid or making answering the heroin/prostitute question the way he did. Don't get me wrong. I totally approve. But I realize that Ron's words are what's going to be used against him in 30 second attack ads if the establishment sees him as a credible threat and not Adam Kokesh dancing at the Jefferson Memorial. Ron won't lose any voters from this that he hasn't already lost. In fact most people who might see the video won't even make the association between Kokesh and Ron. On the other hand some independent or liberal youngster might see this, think it's "cool", start learning about Kokesh and end up learning about liberty.

Kokesh looks like a schmuck dancing around while his friends are getting pummeled. I don't see any "cool" factor in this performance whatsoever.

[marc1888]

Adam is not running for congress. He ran for congress once. He has been getting arrested for peacefully protesting for years.

[GunnyFreedom]

Kokesh is doing exactly what Kokesh should be doing. We are not going to win this fight by hitting on a single front, but by hitting many fronts all at once, and finding the weak spot in the rear of their formation. I hate to say it, but AK is perceived as tainted by Republicans for his earlier (and apparently current) association with Code Pink, so I wouldn't expect any Republican electoral victories from AK within the decade. I don't agree with that rationale, but I can't even begin to tell you how many strong allies we've won from the Tea Parties and former Neocons who love Ron and Rand Paul, but hear Adam's name and get a crinkly-nosed and disgusted because they associate him with Code Pink.

Sure they are being stupid, but electoral reality is what it is and we have to face the demon and fight it.

Kokesh is doing EXACTLY what he should be doing right now. He is working the civil side, and Ron Rand, and myself are working the public side. Maybe 10 years from now when whatever sick demented mental disease has overcome America is fading away then AK can look at elective office again.

I'm sorry to break the news to folks who have been hoping to see Adam in Congress in 2012, but Republicans are NOT READY for a Republican who they associate with Code Pink. That's not Adam's fault, it the voters who can't see past the nose on their own face.

It's not like we are going to genocide all the stupid voters to give AK a chance to win office. It will be up to the liberty movement to push America back down the road to liberty enough so Republicans can consider AK for office -- part of that work is being done by AK at the TJ memorial.

Oh yeah, and remember:

"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." -- Thomas Jefferson

[AuH20]

Kokesh is doing exactly what Kokesh should be doing. We are not going to win this fight by hitting on a single front, but by hitting many fronts all at once, and finding the weak spot in the rear of their formation. I hate to say it, but AK is perceived as tainted by Republicans for his earlier (and apparently current) association with Code Pink, so I wouldn't expect any Republican electoral victories from AK within the decade. I don't agree with that rationale, but I can't even begin to tell you how many strong allies we've won from the Tea Parties and former Neocons who love Ron and Rand Paul, but hear Adam's name and get a crinkly-nosed and disgusted because they associate him with Code Pink.

Sure they are being stupid, but electoral reality is what it is and we have to face the demon and fight it.

Kokesh is doing EXACTLY what he should be doing right now. He is working the civil side, and Ron Rand, and myself are working the public side. Maybe 10 years from now when whatever sick demented mental disease has overcome America is fading away then AK can look at elective office again.

I'm sorry to break the news to folks who have been hoping to see Adam in Congress in 2012, but Republicans are NOT READY for a Republican who they associate with Code Pink. That's not Adam's fault, it the voters who can't see past the nose on their own face.

It's not like we are going to genocide all the stupid voters to give AK a chance to win office. It will be up to the liberty movement to push America back down the road to liberty enough so Republicans can consider AK for office -- part of that work is being done by AK at the TJ memorial.

Oh yeah, and remember:

"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." -- Thomas Jefferson

Code Pink, despite their opposition to imperial foreign policies are progressive statist to the core.

http://www.codepink4peace.org/article.php?list=type&type=3


CODEPINK is a women-initiated grassroots peace and social justice movement working to end U.S. funded wars and occupations, to challenge militarism globally, and to redirect our resources into health care, education, green jobs and other life-affirming activities. Won't you join us?

[pcosmar]

Oh yeah, and remember:

"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." -- Thomas Jefferson
Thank you for the reminder.

[AuH20]

Oh yeah, and remember:

"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." -- Thomas Jefferson

I'll do you one better.


"I do not know whether it is to yourself or Mr. Adams I am to give my thanks for the copy of the new constitution. I beg leave through you to place them where due. It will be yet three weeks before I shall receive them from America. There are very good articles in it: and very bad. I do not know which preponderate. What we have lately read in the history of Holland, in the chapter on the Stadtholder, would have sufficed to set me against a Chief magistrate eligible for a long duration, if I had ever been disposed towards one: and what we have always read of the elections of Polish kings should have forever excluded the idea of one continuable for life. Wonderful is the effect of impudent and persevering lying. The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, and what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusets? And can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion.[1] The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13 states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusets: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen yard in order. I hope in god this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted."

Wake me when we get to this stage. All this is petty theatrics as far as I'm concerned.

[GunnyFreedom]

Code Pink, despite their opposition to imperial foreign policies are progressive statist to the core.

http://www.codepink4peace.org/article.php?list=type&type=3

Yes, that was kinda my point, with an attempt to be gentle...

[speciallyblend]

Kokesh looks like a schmuck dancing around while his friends are getting pummeled. I don't see any "cool" factor in this performance whatsoever.

non violent protest is why or did you miss that??? watch peaceful protests. If he was to react. He would be attacked,luckily he was only body slammed!! next time they can try to bring an announcer and some back ground music so you can hear what he is dancing to! I would of stood right next to him if i could of been there! talk about schmucks really?? personally i think you should direct your comment to yourself!

[AuH20]

non violent protest is why or did you miss that??? watch peaceful protests. If he was to react. He would be attacked,luckily he was only body slammed!! next time they can try to bring an announcer and some back ground music so you can hear what he is dancing to!

What is the point of a non-violent protest in this particular venue? We know the expected outcome. Criminal syndicate rooted in our judicial system passes un-American laws. Police in turn enforce these criminal laws, when they are directly violated. I just see this entire exercise as pointless. At the end of the day, tyrants only understand force.

[GunnyFreedom]

Here is another example, url has been broken, NC Paulers have almost completely won this guy for Ron and Rand Paul, but he hates AK to the core of his being:

hxxp://randysright.wordpress.com/2011/05/29/randys-right-is-smiling-police-body-slam-adam-kokesh-medea-benjamin-at-jefferson-memorial/

The way the country is right now, AK is just not going to win Republican votes because of his association with Code Pink, and now with Code Pink's #1 liberal Medea Benjamin. The reality is that a Republican electoral victory is not in the cards for AK until America itself starts to respect the Constitution and understands that AK protested with Code Pink back in the day because Code Pink was the only game running to protest the war.

They are just not going to get past that far enough to realize that philosophically AK is a conservative Constitutionalist. All these people know is that "he's with Code Pink" (and yes in truth Code Pink is about as communist liberal as it gets).

So the folks disparaging AK for doing this saying he should hold on to his chances for electoral victory....man I love AK to death but he has long ago let go of his chances at a Republican electoral victory.

Just look at that broken link I shared. This is from a Republican who we have pretty much won over to Ron and Rand. How do you think non-Pauler Republicans will perceive him?

[anaconda]

I'm assuming he is embracing his RT gig and not running for office then? a bit childish if you ask me. I would prefer him to not get Involved in childish escapades because I think he is a smart guy with a lot of potential. Hate to see him throw away his chances at office so that he can demonstrate the "police state" to those who are already very familiar with the abuses. I might get flamed for this, but I seriously doubt that the effectiveness that this will have for the liberty movement.

It is precisely these types of peaceful protests that help clarify the demarcation between what is free versus what the reach of law enforcement is. This is not childish by any stretch of the imagination. The alleged silliness of it only magnifies the draconian recklessness and wild overreach of the police state. I suspect this stunt will actually help push back against the police state. Let's see where it goes!

[kylejack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UyiaR1PDhQ

[pcosmar]

I'll do you one better.


Wake me when we get to this stage.

No one wants that stage. Even the best armed and trained among us do not want that stage. (especially so)
It is likely coming though, but we are still working through "all the peaceful means" first.

Feel froggy? Next demonstration set up somewhere near by with YOUR rifle. Defend those under attack.
Not up to that commitment? Then don't disparage those that are taking bruises and jail time standing up.

That shit will come soon enough. no need to rush.

[anaconda]

I don't really agree with publicity stunts, either. One doesn't have to go looking for trouble, it'll find you regardless which was Adam's point, I'd guess.

Provoking reckless and illegal behavior by law enforcement for thousands of viewers is a worthwhile endeavor. This might very well end up establishing some type of valuable legal precedence.

[anaconda]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UyiaR1PDhQ

Adam got slammed and dumped hard. Then received a choke hold. I'll bet the park cops didn't know they were committing police brutality on a recent Congressional candidate. And, predictably, Fox News didn't mention that..

[AuH20]

No one wants that stage. Even the best armed and trained among us do not want that stage. (especially so)
It is likely coming though, but we are still working through "all the peaceful means" first.

Feel froggy? Next demonstration set up somewhere near by with YOUR rifle. Defend those under attack.
Not up to that commitment? Then don't disparage those that are taking bruises and jail time standing up.

That shit will come soon enough. no need to rush.

It's not coming. It's practically on our doorstep. Think about for a second. We need freaking papers to peacefully assemble! If that's not a sign of the dire straits we're in, I don't know what is.

[Anti Federalist]

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

I owe rep big time Glen.

This is from a man that has won a difficult political race, not a buncha armchair QBs like the rest of us.


Kokesh is doing exactly what Kokesh should be doing. We are not going to win this fight by hitting on a single front, but by hitting many fronts all at once, and finding the weak spot in the rear of their formation. I hate to say it, but AK is perceived as tainted by Republicans for his earlier (and apparently current) association with Code Pink, so I wouldn't expect any Republican electoral victories from AK within the decade. I don't agree with that rationale, but I can't even begin to tell you how many strong allies we've won from the Tea Parties and former Neocons who love Ron and Rand Paul, but hear Adam's name and get a crinkly-nosed and disgusted because they associate him with Code Pink.

Sure they are being stupid, but electoral reality is what it is and we have to face the demon and fight it.

Kokesh is doing EXACTLY what he should be doing right now. He is working the civil side, and Ron Rand, and myself are working the public side. Maybe 10 years from now when whatever sick demented mental disease has overcome America is fading away then AK can look at elective office again.

I'm sorry to break the news to folks who have been hoping to see Adam in Congress in 2012, but Republicans are NOT READY for a Republican who they associate with Code Pink. That's not Adam's fault, it the voters who can't see past the nose on their own face.

It's not like we are going to genocide all the stupid voters to give AK a chance to win office. It will be up to the liberty movement to push America back down the road to liberty enough so Republicans can consider AK for office -- part of that work is being done by AK at the TJ memorial.

Oh yeah, and remember:

"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." -- Thomas Jefferson

[GunnyFreedom]

No one wants that stage. Even the best armed and trained among us do not want that stage. (especially so)
It is likely coming though, but we are still working through "all the peaceful means" first.

Feel froggy? Next demonstration set up somewhere near by with YOUR rifle. Defend those under attack.
Not up to that commitment? Then don't disparage those that are taking bruises and jail time standing up.

That shit will come soon enough. no need to rush.

+rep

[Anti Federalist]

Two reps I have to make sure to come back to this thread for.

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.


No one wants that stage. Even the best armed and trained among us do not want that stage. (especially so)
It is likely coming though, but we are still working through "all the peaceful means" first.

Feel froggy? Next demonstration set up somewhere near by with YOUR rifle. Defend those under attack.
Not up to that commitment? Then don't disparage those that are taking bruises and jail time standing up.

That shit will come soon enough. no need to rush.

[AuH20]

This is what our overlords think of stunts like this. They know they're protected by hordes of rent-a-cops and paramilitary:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgth89yHJf0

[ClayTrainor]

This is what our overlords think of stunts like this. They know they're protected by hordes of rent-a-cops and paramilitary:

Not sure what your point is? I don't think anyone here is under the delusion that dancing in DC will scare/intimidate the overlords.

[Wesker1982]

I don't see Ron Paul compromising his principles or his message to coddle or pander to the ignorant.

Or perhaps you hadn't noticed. Ending the Wars, and the War on Drugs, and legalizing Freedom does not sit well with the GOP.

And I like that in Ron.

yep

[Anti Federalist]

This is what our overlords think of stunts like this. They know they're protected by hordes of rent-a-cops and paramilitary:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgth89yHJf0

Off topic...

Has Rahm lost the tip of his index finger on his right hand?

[JJonesMBA]

Hopefully the good Judge will invite both Adam & the arresting officers onto his show, would be great to get a comment on the record by the park service...

[speciallyblend]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UyiaR1PDhQ

we should look at the freedom riders as an example and start sending more and more freedom dancers to continue to dance with AK, this can get alot bigger then folks think! watching this story sounds like they plan on going next sat!

[Danke]

"The true patriot is motivated by a sense of responsibility and out of self-interest for himself, his family, and the future of his country to resist government abuse of power. He rejects the notion that patriotism means obedience to the state. Resistance need not be violent, but the civil disobedience that might be required involves confrontation with the state and invites possible imprisonment. " Ron Paul

[specsaregood]

for your enjoyment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqh8e2KYIrU
I am gonna start dancing at the gop meetings:)

now, that ^ is an airline I'd consider putting up with the TSA to fly upon.

[Kylie]

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

I owe rep big time Glen.

This is from a man that has won a difficult political race, not a buncha armchair QBs like the rest of us.


Two reps I have to make sure to come back to this thread for.

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.




Gotcha on both.


Only because I completely agree, and I have rep to give.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Uh there's like 4 cops and many people. But instead of helping they just watch?

[Wesker1982]

Uh there's like 4 cops and many people. But instead of helping they just watch?

Some people believe they can be more effective spreading the message if they still have a pulse.

[Anti Federalist]

Gotcha on both.


Only because I completely agree, and I have rep to give.

Thank you thank you thank you...

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Some people believe they can be more effective spreading the message if they still have a pulse.

Oh yeah, so tough, but once the cop touches them... PLEASE DO NOT HURT ME!

[Bman]

Oh yeah, so tough, but once the cop touches them... PLEASE DO NOT HURT ME!

Exactly what are you promoting? This is and always will be a peace movement. If your wish is to see blood on the streets you have come to the wrong place.

[anaconda]

Off topic...

Has Rahm lost the tip of his index finger on his right hand?

Look like the middle finger to me. He probably flipped off the wrong person and got it chopped off while serving in the Israeli military.

[anaconda]

Perhaps an appearance on Dancing With the Stars! Adam and the Ron Paul Girl!

[Vessol]

Exactly what are you promoting? This is and always will be a peace movement. If your wish is to see blood on the streets you have come to the wrong place.

+1

[tasteless]

Go Adam, but that protest was too white. Those dance moves were pretty whack, need more minorities for the next one.

[Vessol]

Next time we are all in Washington DC for an event(like CPAC) we should organize a dance off at the Jefferson Memorial

[CUnknown]

Non-violent civil disobedience. It is the path to freedom and I support Adam in what he did. If this happened every day all day long for a long time, eventually you would be allowed to dance at the Jefferson Memorial.

Absolutely. If you could get 100s of people to do this every day, it would be legal in no time.

[kylejack]

Oh yeah, so tough, but once the cop touches them... PLEASE DO NOT HURT ME!
They went there with the intention of getting arrested, and they got exactly the news coverage they wanted. The story could have been "Angry mob attacks police officers" but it wasn't. They did a good job.

[HRD53]

excessive force and a stupid law certainly... but what an odd battle to pick

[Karl]

A little video I made about yesterdays events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jikhLLwRguQ

[Vessol]

Full video here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jUU3yCy3uI

[Vessol]

God watching this pisses me off.

What pisses me off the most are all the mewing bystanders who just go "Oh I understand, I understand" As the thugs tell them to leave and that the memorial is closed. Fucking boot-jacked thugs.

[A Son of Liberty]

Not sure what your point is? I don't think anyone here is under the delusion that dancing in DC will scare/intimidate the overlords.

Exactly. It's not about scaring anyone. It's about drawing the attention of more people to unconstitutional, not to mention utterly pointless, officious, and abusive laws. This "law" - thou shalt not dance at the Jefferson Memorial" - lies in direct conflict with our natural right to self-expression, supposedly "protected" from violation by the government by the First Amendment. Adam would have done well to have brought a large sign with the full text of the First Amendment.

Because we have submitted to laws like this in the past, this law was passed without a thought. These protests are long overdue.

I admire Adam for doing this!

[tpreitzel]

Personally, I would have hauled Adam and the other exhibitionists out of the Jefferson Memorial as well. Responsibility comes with freedom. Was it a responsible act to interrupt a tour? Don't visitors have to pay for these tours or do the taxpayers foot the bill? Would a judge allow such an exhibition in a publicly funded courtroom? Here's the basic problem: Publicly funded assets and anarchists. * Sell the assets to private parties and fire the workers to help pay off the national debt. With minimal assets and money for federal operations, the target for exhibitionists in Washington, D.C. would shrink to a manageable size or they'd have to search for targets elsewhere, e.g. state and local communities. Now, the real fun begins... Get the paddy wagons, boys! ;)

* Extremes vying for balance

[noneedtoaggress]

I'm suprised by some of the comments in this thread. Disdain for Adam standing up and getting choked for disobeying an unjust law and calls for violence?

Adam is not going to be running for office any time soon. He is a voluntaryist. Follow his facebook and poke around on his site. He's publically stated that he ultimately hopes the state can go by the wayside.

Ron Paul calls for civil disobedience and peaceful resistance. I seem to recall in an interview in which he was talking about Liberty Defined, he mentioned that politics may very likely prove useless, and that civil disobedience may very well be the future. Politics is best as a platform for educating people. If he does make it to the presidency (and I really hope he does), he will have political roadblocks and attacks constantly keeping him in check. Hopefully he would be able to use his power to undo some damage, but he can't just wave a magical stick and bring freedom back or fix everything. He needs ground support and ultimately Civil disobedience is the most empowering platform for expedient change.

Even in tyranny, governments require a degree of consent of the governed. That includes every law on the books. How many people would it take to change this law through the political machine and how long would it take? How many peaceful resisters dancing every day would it take before it became unenforceable and how long would it take?

Adam is exposing the gun in the room, here. The point of this is to get people to have these conversations. The point of this is to light the fire of liberty in more people to take action themselves. This incident is getting widely publicized withing the liberty movement and some attention beyond. People will get injured enough simply by peacefully resisting without calling for violent resistance, and this exposes what is really going on. It exposes the tyrannical state we are in, but avoid confronting due to conformity to the status quo of channeled political action through politics which is much easier to control.

When you put all your eggs in the political stage basket you're going to miss the forest through the trees and worry about political correctness rather than liberty. There are paradigm shifts happening all over the place here. The political stage is the slowest to adopt to changes and sentiments. The political stage is the stage of the status quo. Adam is trying to break some people out of it, and expose people to the realities of the day that nobody wants to really discuss. You can't move rhythmically to yourself at the Jefferson Memorial.

You can't move rythmically to yourself at the Jefferson Memorial or you may get violently taken down and thrown in a cage. We are in a police state, folks, but many people don't want to admit it to themselves, and so when it's exposed they attack the messenger. He was in the wrong for "acting like a fool".

What is more foolish, to blindly follow your government to your own ruination and put all your eggs in the "change it from within" basket of a corrupt institution, or to enjoy your limited time in life as best you can and peacefully resisting a ridiculous law by dropping some dance moves and exposing the corruption for how far it's gotten?

Ron has done and continues to do us an immense service despite the fact that he should be resting at this point in his life. Adam and those like him are the next generation and the next step of resistance to this bloated, out of control government.

Everyone has their own strengths to bring to this movement, and everyone uses themselves as instruments as best they can. I've definitely got my own issues with some of the stuff Adam does and how he represents the movement (the two regular guest hosts he has come to mind). But he's doing what he can the way he knows how, and his dedication and achievements so far have been mighty impressive, imo.

I only hope I can make as much of an impact as he already has.

And, ultimately, that's precisely what this "stunt" today is all about.

[jmdrake]

Kokesh looks like a schmuck dancing around while his friends are getting pummeled. I don't see any "cool" factor in this performance whatsoever.

Then you don't know cool. ;) What's cool is the fact that Kokesh was "standing up to the man". Really it's the video where Kokesh talks about the idiotic ruling and announces the "dance party at TJ's" that gains major cool points. The fact that he and his fellow Golden Pond warriors can't actually dance is irrelevant.

[jmdrake]

Go Adam, but that protest was too white. Those dance moves were pretty whack, need more minorities for the next one.

LOLz. Maybe someone can remix this with some music and MC Hammer dancing away from the cops?

[jmdrake]

Off topic...

Has Rahm lost the tip of his index finger on his right hand?

An uncle of mine told me years ago that high level mobsters would cut off the tip of one of their fingers to show loyalty to the cause. Now this might be a coincidence as lots of innocent people lose fingers. But Rahm is certainly the mobster type.

[LibertarianBrit]

The liberty movement for me isn't about being in a cool counter-culture where I can feel hip. It's about trying to convince enough of the population to move away from tyranny so that my daughter can live a free life with opportunity and outside a life of servitude. So no, for me, not good

Ekrub, As I live on British soil that was occupied by the Nazis from 1940 to 1945, I can tell you that what I saw in the Kokesh / Jefferson video differs little from the way that they treated the local people during that period. The first step in removing tyranny is recognizing it exists in the first place. That is what Kokesh is doing.

[pcosmar]

Was it a responsible act to interrupt a tour?

How exactly did a couple people interrupt a tour?
Silently
Swaying and moving (not entirely rhythmically)

I would say that the police were far more disruptive. And they are the ones that closed the area and ran people out.

Please explain how silent dance (using the term loosely) was disruptive?

[silverhandorder]

At first I thought what Adam was doing was a waste of time. I changed my mind after watching the video you can plainly see how bad it is when they are arresting people for just dancing without disturbing anyone. Shame on you guys for attacking others who choose a different strategy for liberty.

[tpreitzel]

How exactly did a couple people interrupt a tour?
Silently
Swaying and moving (not entirely rhythmically)

I would say that the police were far more disruptive. And they are the ones that closed the area and ran people out.

Please explain how silent dance (using the term loosely) was disruptive?

Were YOU there at the event? Do we have 360 degree video of the entire hall during the event? Regardless, I'm willing to bet that the exhibitionists did disrupt the tour even without that proof. Your question would be most appropriately directed at the members of the tour during the "protest". What do you think their answer would be? Just from the video, Adam didn't quite blend into his surroundings like a chameleon or he wouldn't have been there in the first place, eh? Sure, the cops overreacted like cops generally do. ;)


One last note: Contrast this publicity stunt at the TJ Memorial with Adam's very appropriate response to the gentleman in the wheelchair which cops dumped on the ground. Way to go, Adam, for THAT righteous response. :)

[tpreitzel]

At first I thought what Adam was doing was a waste of time. I changed my mind after watching the video you can plainly see how bad it is when they are arresting people for just dancing without disturbing anyone. Shame on you guys for attacking others who choose a different strategy for liberty.

No, shame on Adam and his fellow exhibitionists for acting irresponsibly. ;)

[tpreitzel]

Anyway, it's rather amusing reading those members trying to justify the actions of these irresponsible exhibitionists in this particular case at the TJ Memorial. I'll check back later today for some more laughs, I'm sure.

[pcosmar]

Were YOU there at the event?

Nope, I heard about it here. But I did watch several videos of the event, from several angles. And i observed both the participants and the reactions of bystanders.

Most ( those that paid any attention at all) seemed disturbed by the POLICE actions.
It was only the police that caused the disturbance and closed the area.

A few bystanders were visibly offended at the violent police response.
Those are seeds planted.

[noneedtoaggress]

Regardless, I'm willing to bet that the exhibitionists did disrupt the tour even without that proof.

Who is the one doing the justifying here?

[Jandrsn21]

Some may think that the act is goofy, but Adam is making a really good point about just how ridiculous things are. I mean you can't dance at a public place. Forget the police state, forget the jack booted thugs, forget it all, that fact in its self is just crazy! I can't wait until my generation gets into office. I'm 26 by the way and I don't know a single person who would have a problem with that or would even remotely take offense or find that disruptive. The older generation has been sold on the idea that controlling people and society, either form the left perspective or the right perspective is acceptable. It amounts to the vast majority of people holding office that are nothing more than control freaks getting off on how to tell people how to live.

edit: I would actually like to know how many people actually were disturbed by people dancing, hugging, and gathering peacefully. The only ones that were disruptive were the police. The were abusive and shut the park down.

[A Son of Liberty]

Were YOU there at the event? Do we have 360 degree video of the entire hall during the event? Regardless, I'm willing to bet that the exhibitionists did disrupt the tour even without that proof.

Would you mind explaining what is disruptive about what they (the protestors, of course) were doing? Examining my natural rights, I don't find any stating that I have a right to be free from the [perceived] annoying behavior of others. Oh, and looky there - I just came across that natural right to self-expression.

There are lots of things that many different people do that each of us might find annoying. We don't have a right those people being from suppressed from doing them, unless they're aggressing against us.

[A Son of Liberty]

Some may think that the act is goofy, but Adam is making a really good point about just how ridiculous things are. I mean you can't dance at a public place. Forget the police state, forget the jack booted thugs, forget it all, that fact in its self is just crazy! I can't wait until my generation gets into office. I'm 26 by the way and I don't know a single person who would have a problem with that or would even remotely take offense or find that disruptive. The older generation has been sold on the idea that controlling people and society, either form the left perspective or the right perspective is acceptable. It amounts to the vast majority of people holding office that are nothing more than control freaks getting off on how to tell people how to live.

Don't be so sure, bub. The peace-loving, free-spirit, hippy baby boomers are in office right now. :frown:

[torchbearer]

Exactly what are you promoting? This is and always will be a peace movement. If your wish is to see blood on the streets you have come to the wrong place.

in fairness, the blood on the streets will come whether he wants it or not.
next time it may be yours as your getting your ass beaten in your own home because the swat team busted down the wrong door on a drug bust.

[Travlyr]

I'm surprised by some of the comments in this thread.
I'm not. A lot of people still get their information directly from the ruling class. The younger folks are reading books and surfing the free market truth telling machine ... the Internet. The older folks are still trusting TV news, Walter Cronkite, and his protégés. They are being fooled by their 'rules do not apply to us' leaders.


Ron Paul calls for civil disobedience and peaceful resistance. I seem to recall in an interview in which he was talking about Liberty Defined, he mentioned that politics may very likely prove useless, and that civil disobedience may very well be the future. Politics is best as a platform for educating people. If he does make it to the presidency (and I really hope he does), he will have political roadblocks and attacks constantly keeping him in check. Hopefully he would be able to use his power to undo some damage, but he can't just wave a magical stick and bring freedom back or fix everything. He needs ground support and ultimately Civil disobedience is the most empowering platform for expedient change.

Ron Paul choose the political process, and he is winning. Adam Kokesh is choosing theatre, and he is winning. Liberty Forest, and other forums are debating in earnest, and they are winning.


Even in tyranny, governments require a degree of consent of the governed. That includes every law on the books. How many people would it take to change this law through the political machine and how long would it take?
The power elite are very powerful because they control the money supply... unlimited funds. Ronald Reagan resisted in a great speech supporting Barry Goldwater in 1964 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXBswFfh6AY), yet we have simply continued to lose freedom since that day.


How many peaceful resisters dancing every day would it take before it became unenforceable and how long would it take?
Much shorter time.


Adam is exposing the gun in the room, here. The point of this is to get people to have these conversations. The point of this is to light the fire of liberty in more people to take action themselves. This incident is getting widely publicized withing the liberty movement and some attention beyond. People will get injured enough simply by peacefully resisting without calling for violent resistance, and this exposes what is really going on. It exposes the tyrannical state we are in, but avoid confronting due to conformity to the status quo of channeled political action through politics which is much easier to control.

When you put all your eggs in the political stage basket you're going to miss the forest through the trees and worry about political correctness rather than liberty. There are paradigm shifts happening all over the place here. The political stage is the slowest to adopt to changes and sentiments. The political stage is the stage of the status quo. Adam is trying to break some people out of it, and expose people to the realities of the day that nobody wants to really discuss. You can't move rhythmically to yourself at the Jefferson Memorial.
An argument can be made that walking is rhythmic. This demonstration illustrates the level of indoctrination our school system has wrought onto our society. Now everything is illegal? We must obey our overlords. Enslavement is Freedom.


You can't move rhythmically to yourself at the Jefferson Memorial or you may get violently taken down and thrown in a cage. We are in a police state, folks, but many people don't want to admit it to themselves, and so when it's exposed they attack the messenger. He was in the wrong for "acting like a fool".
We ARE living in a police state with many people cheering and rah.. rah(ing) to keep us safe while our rulers hire thugs to bust down doors and kill without due process or recourse.


What is more foolish, to blindly follow your government to your own ruination and put all your eggs in the "change it from within" basket of a corrupt institution, or to enjoy your limited time in life as best you can and peacefully resisting a ridiculous law by dropping some dance moves and exposing the corruption for how far it's gotten?
I could not take a bottle of water into the halls of congress when I went to D.C. Nobody was safer because of that. I chose not to see that temple.


Ron has done and continues to do us an immense service despite the fact that he should be resting at this point in his life. Adam and those like him are the next generation and the next step of resistance to this bloated, out of control government.
And this gives me hope that I will enjoy freedom in my lifetime. I don't have another 50 years, but the gigantic step of removing the counterfeiting cabal of ruling elite from power may come more quickly because the Internet is the truth telling machine, and Freedom is Popular.


Everyone has their own strengths to bring to this movement, and everyone uses themselves as instruments as best they can. I've definitely got my own issues with some of the stuff Adam does and how he represents the movement (the two regular guest hosts he has come to mind). But he's doing what he can the way he knows how, and his dedication and achievements so far have been mighty impressive, imo.
The free market in action!


I only hope I can make as much of an impact as he already has.
The Liberty Rider has a quote in his signature on which I hang my hat,

Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.
~ C.Coolidge


And, ultimately, that's precisely what this "stunt" today is all about.

+ rep

[torchbearer]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3171/2967637169_bcef36ef09.jpg

[AndrewD]

A few points i'd like to make:

1. Don't buy into sensationalism. This has nothing to do with dancing. It has everything to do with protesting. The police officers were told it was a protest, and gave ample warning that protesting was not allowed.

2. Don't blame the police for enforcing the law, they didn't create the law.

3. How the police enforced the law is different. They were assaultive.

4. Given the fact that Adam and Co were breaking the law, they were rightfully arrested. Their particular actions caused them to be "Actively Resistant" in which the police officer has every right to lay hands and use "Contact Controls". These are Use of Force definitions.

5. Does that mean bodyslam and choke? HELL no. That simply means you grab his arms and put them behind his back, thats all it would have taken. As the suspect resists more, you may apply more force. You would not bodyslam or choke unless you as the police officer were actually being attacked.

6. Those of you calling on the police officers to "object" and not enforce the law have no right to say that. Doing so would end their career. Now they can't support their families or put food on the table or gas in the tank. And it's pointless. You quit your job to "make a point" and your left with nothing, and nothing changes. I don't see any of you quitting your jobs for the common good, or do you just so happen to have a comfortable career where everything is good to go? The fact is, if the police officer objects, there are much more effective ways of objecting without putting his own family at risk.

[VBRonPaulFan]

sometimes you have to do ridiculous things to show people how ridiculous it's really gotten. good for him.

[VBRonPaulFan]

A few points i'd like to make:

1. Don't buy into sensationalism. This has nothing to do with dancing. It has everything to do with protesting. The police officers were told it was a protest, and gave ample warning that protesting was not allowed.

2. Don't blame the police for enforcing the law, they didn't create the law.

3. How the police enforced the law is different. They were assaultive.

4. Given the fact that Adam and Co were breaking the law, they were rightfully arrested. Their particular actions caused them to be "Actively Resistant" in which the police officer has every right to lay hands and use "Contact Controls". These are Use of Force definitions.

5. Does that mean bodyslam and choke? HELL no. That simply means you grab his arms and put them behind his back, thats all it would have taken. As the suspect resists more, you may apply more force. You would not bodyslam or choke unless you as the police officer were actually being attacked.

6. Those of you calling on the police officers to "object" and not enforce the law have no right to say that. Doing so would end their career. Now they can't support their families or put food on the table or gas in the tank. And it's pointless. You quit your job to "make a point" and your left with nothing, and nothing changes. I don't see any of you quitting your jobs for the common good, or do you just so happen to have a comfortable career where everything is good to go? The fact is, if the police officer objects, there are much more effective ways of objecting without putting his own family at risk.

your whole post is completely absurd. this is the kind of shit that people who make the laws tell you. each and every person has the responsibility to not uphold or enforce laws that infringe on our liberties or don't make sense. it doesn't matter who you are, or what you do. you could use your same logic to say that people shouldn't use jury nullification to rule 'not guilty' on cases where they don't agree with the law.

[Travlyr]

This has nothing to do with dancing. It has everything to do with protesting.
It has everything to do with protesting a law that makes everyone a criminal at the discretion of the authorities. The law being broken was 'moving rhythmically'. The protest was against an undefinable law that is in violation of natural rights.


Those of you calling on the police officers to "object" and not enforce the law have no right to say that. Doing so would end their career. Now they can't support their families or put food on the table or gas in the tank. And it's pointless. You quit your job to "make a point" and your left with nothing, and nothing changes. I don't see any of you quitting your jobs for the common good, or do you just so happen to have a comfortable career where everything is good to go? The fact is, if the police officer objects, there are much more effective ways of objecting without putting his own family at risk.
Police are people too. If they continue to enforce unconstitutional laws, then they subject themselves to the same treatment when off duty. Case in point: The ex-Marine who was just taken out in his own home by 'police' with 60 bullets.

A lot of us do not like the tyranny of the police state.

[pcosmar]

6. Those of you calling on the police officers to "object" and not enforce the law have no right to say that..
:confused:


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The "law" is void on it's face and the Imperial Stormtroopers are guilty of "Violation of Civil Rights under the Color of Law"

And "I have no right to object"????
WTF ?
GTFO
:(

[AndrewD]

The only reason you should be pissed at the police is because of the violence. Otherwise, start throwing darts at the judges, lawyers, and courts. THEY are the one's that made this law. Guess what, I see no problem with anyone smoking weed, but if i'm a cop and I take that oath to uphold the law, I will arrest you if I catch you smoking weed. The point is, police officers have a duty and responsibility to be impartial. It's not the police officers job to pick and choose what he wants to enforce. With a theory like that, you would have a REAL police state.

And i'm not saying people here have no right to object. I'm saying you have no place to condemn the police officer for not objecting. Maybe he agrees with the law. Maybe not. Either way it IS the law and he is enforcing it. In other words doing his job. If the law is immoral, as many here believe, then the problem is above his level. Adjust your sights.

[Travlyr]

The only reason you should be pissed at the police is because of the violence. Otherwise, start throwing darts at the judges, lawyers, and courts. THEY are the one's that made this law. Guess what, I see no problem with anyone smoking weed, but if i'm a cop and I take that oath to uphold the law, I will arrest you if I catch you smoking weed. The point is, police officers have a duty and responsibility to be impartial. It's not the police officers job to pick and choose what he wants to enforce. With a theory like that, you would have a REAL police state.

And i'm not saying people here have no right to object. I'm saying you have no place to condemn the police officer for not objecting. Maybe he agrees with the law. Maybe not. Either way it IS the law and he is enforcing it. In other words doing his job. If the law is immoral, as many here believe, then the problem is above his level. Adjust your sights.

You are missing my point entirely. I don't know if you are not reading my posts, or if I'm not communicating effectively.

I cringe when I see police. They have the power to kill or imprison me for any reason they want without due process. I have no use for them and do not wish to pay their salaries. They do not protect citizens. It's not even their stated duty. We don't need police to keep order. They do more damage than good. End the police state.

[pcosmar]

but if i'm a cop and I take that oath to uphold the law,
WRONG. The oath is to protect and defend the Constitution. First and foremost.

And i'm not saying people here have no right to object. I'm saying you have no place to condemn the police officer for not objecting.

In other words doing his job.

That defense did not work at Nuremberg. It don't fly here either.

Do you have any concept of Liberty?
Do you understand that Police should not even exist in a free society?
http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

professional police were unknown to the United States in 1789, and first appeared in America almost a half-century after the Constitution's ratification. The Framers contemplated law enforcement as the duty of mostly private citizens, along with a few constables and sheriffs who could be called upon when necessary. This article marshals extensive historical and legal evidence to show that modern policing is in many ways inconsistent with the original intent of America's founding documents.

[Danke]

The only reason you should be pissed at the police is because of the violence. Otherwise, start throwing darts at the judges, lawyers, and courts. THEY are the one's that made this law. Guess what, I see no problem with anyone smoking weed, but if i'm a cop and I take that oath to uphold the law, I will arrest you if I catch you smoking weed. The point is, police officers have a duty and responsibility to be impartial. It's not the police officers job to pick and choose what he wants to enforce. With a theory like that, you would have a REAL police state.

And i'm not saying people here have no right to object. I'm saying you have no place to condemn the police officer for not objecting. Maybe he agrees with the law. Maybe not. Either way it IS the law and he is enforcing it. In other words doing his job. If the law is immoral, as many here believe, then the problem is above his level. Adjust your sights.

It is precisely the police that are enabling the "judges, lawyers, and courts" to get away with the unjust "laws." Without them and their actions, the tyrants would be powerless. Similar to the Universal Soldier Ron Paul talks about.

[marc1888]

The whole point was to exploit the absurdity of the law and the violation of someones person for doing something very very harmless. For those giving Adam a bit of a hard time obviously dont know him. Adam is no shrinking violet and being manhandled like that by a cop and passively resisting takes far more resilience and restraint than someone just lashing out.

[AndrewD]

You are missing my point entirely. I don't know if you are not reading my posts, or if I'm not communicating effectively.
I cringe when I see police. They have the power to kill or imprison me for any reason they want without due process.

Do you cringe when you see Joe Schmoe walking down the street? He has the power to kill you on the spot. Anyone can, at any time. If you want to live your life in fear that's your choice.


WRONG. The oath is to protect and defend the Constitution.

The Constitution is the law of the land. How am I wrong again? Or are you pushing semantics to try and prove a point?


That defense did not work at Nuremberg. It don't fly here either.

Strawman.


It is precisely the police that are enabling the "judges, lawyers, and courts" to get away with the unjust "laws." Without them and their actions, the tyrants would be powerless. Similar to the Universal Soldier Ron Paul talks about.

Wrong. It's the people that are enabling the lawmakers through elections and their elected representatives.

Look. The law in question here is silly. But i'm not stating that as fact, it is merely my opinion. You think the law is silly or unjust? Great opinion. But quit telling other people what to do and how to act. Maybe the police officers agree with the law. Maybe they think the memorial is sacred and don't want people disrespecting it, especially after they gave fair warning. Maybe when your jumping and dancing around like a buffoon on an official monument, that angers people. Especially when the law was already passed. And i'm not advocating the violence in any way, merely the act of arresting.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion. But don't be subjecting others to it and trying to call them out like they should end their entire career based on what YOU believe. That is where this thread took a wrong turn, and that is what i'm calling you guys out on. If you have a problem with the law, take it up with the lawmakers.

[tropicangela]

we should look at the freedom riders as an example and start sending more and more freedom dancers to continue to dance with AK, this can get alot bigger then folks think! watching this story sounds like they plan on going next sat!

RSVP to the event here http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=150453268357946

[Travlyr]

Do you cringe when you see Joe Schmoe walking down the street? He has the power to kill you on the spot. Anyone can, at any time. If you want to live your life in fear that's your choice.


No, Joe Schmoe will go to prison for killing me. He has incentive to not harm me.

The police get paid vacation if they kill me. They have incentive to kill me ... especially if they don't have to lie to show that I was somehow a threat to them or society in general.

[pcosmar]

The Constitution is the law of the land. How am I wrong again? Or are you pushing semantics to try and prove a point?



Strawman.



Strawman??
"just doing my job" was a defense tried by war criminals. It was not a valid defense. And was rightfully rejected.

You attempt to use the same "just doing my job" . it is still not a valid defense. No Straw man.

The Constitution is the supreme law of the land. And any law written that is directly in violation of the supreme law of the land is Invalid on it's face.
Enforcing such a law is a violation of the law.

in legal term,, a "Violation of Civil Rights under the Color of Law".

The Cops are WRONG. They are in violation of their oath and the Supreme Law of the Land.

[tropicangela]

Adam went to Iraq to 'fight to protect our freedoms.' And now he's back here fighting to protect them for real.

[pcosmar]

Everyone has a right to their own opinion. But don't be subjecting others to it and trying to call them out like they should end their entire career based on what YOU believe. That is where this thread took a wrong turn, and that is what i'm calling you guys out on. If you have a problem with the law, take it up with the lawmakers.

The lawmakers laws would be MOOT if there were no enforcers.

Even if you accept that Police should exist (I do Not), Their job is to protect my Rights, My Freedom, and my Liberty.
Not to violate those when no real crime has been committed.

[AndrewD]

@Travlyr - You have chosen to live your life in fear. Don't subject others to it. I ain't afraid of the cops. Not one bit. And if you think all cops get paid vacation for killing innocent people, while the civilian murders all go to jail ... your living in Hollywood land brother. And I have no intentions of joining you.

@pscosmar - I'm gonna keep this as candid as possible. You are entitled to your own opinions and interpretations. Noone is denying you that. But stop telling other people what to do with their lives, and how to think, and how to act. You don't like it when the government does that to you, so stop doing it to others. Your interpretation of this law is your personal interpretation. If others believe that dancing on an official monument is disrespectful, then thats what they believe. You don't tell them to quit their job because of what YOU believe. If you want to sit down with people and have a debate and discussion, thats one thing. But don't tell other people how to live their lives and what to do with their careers. That kind of attitude has no place in a forum dedicated to Ron Paul.

[aravoth]

http://dailypaul.com/166160/breaking-adam-kokesh-just-got-arrested-about-an-hour-ago

FWD:
I don't have all the details, so if someone else does, please feel free to update accordingly. Apparently, he and about 6 people tried to organize a "flash mob" and dance (no music) at the Jefferson Memorial. They were manhandled and arrested after quietly refusing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PDhjNF9eUQ

ROFL, dude WTF, Dancing in public is illegal now? LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[pcosmar]

.

@pscosmar - I'm gonna keep this as candid as possible. You are entitled to your own opinions and interpretations. Noone is denying you that. But stop telling other people what to do with their lives, and how to think, and how to act. You don't like it when the government does that to you, so stop doing it to others. Your interpretation of this law is your personal interpretation. If others believe that dancing on an official monument is disrespectful, then thats what they believe. You don't tell them to quit their job because of what YOU believe. If you want to sit down with people and have a debate and discussion, thats one thing. But don't tell other people how to live their lives and what to do with their careers. That kind of attitude has no place in a forum dedicated to Ron Paul.

And I suggest it is you that need educating.
Did you read the link I provided? It deals with Constitutional Law Enforcement, and how far we have gotten away from it.

As to Ron Paul,,
Perhaps you should learn about him and his positions. He is QUOTED in my sig line.

[tropicangela]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxZ9Fv2RW48&feature=youtu.be

‎"After having left the scene of police brutality at the Jefferson Memorial -- see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PDhjNF9eUQ -- we moved on to the George Mason Memorial, where I silently rocked out to Natalie Merchant's "Wonder." As you can see, neither Mr. Mason nor the two tourists who happened to be at this lonely memorial were disturbed in the slightest by my act of expression."

[Travlyr]

The Police State in America was virtually nonexistent prior to fiat money. A counterfeiting cabal needs an army of security officers to control society and make certain that no one else is allowed to print money. Because if everyone was allowed to print their own money, then nobody's money would be worth anything. Can't have that!

Without anyone counterfeiting money we would have to use real money and deal with each other honestly and fairly. We wouldn't need the modern police state. Society would generally be a peaceful society.

This proposal is not appealing to the psychopaths in power because they believe that the people need to be ruled, and they love the idea of global taxation (Cap and Trade).

[noneedtoaggress]

@Travlyr - You have chosen to live your life in fear. Don't subject others to it. I ain't afraid of the cops. Not one bit. And if you think all cops get paid vacation for killing innocent people, while the civilian murders all go to jail ... your living in Hollywood land brother. And I have no intentions of joining you.

You have chosen to live your life in fear of what society would be like without the so-called protection of these "mindlessly impartial tools" of the state you're defending. They're "only doing their job" by robotically obeying whatever they are told to do. They shouldn't question or refuse what they're told, it's the judges fault, and the politicians fault. The system is broken and unjust, but it's not their fault, they just enforce unjust laws as they get paid to do they have no say in the matter.

When you take away the responsibilities of someone's actions, it enables them to act in depraved ways. "It wasn't my fault, I was just doing as I was told".

You're subjecting their violence on us who don't believe they are there to "protect and serve" us, but are there to keep us under control and the money flowing into the hands of the state.

You are living in policestateland, USA, brother, and just like those who don't want to see Dr. Paul's message, you don't wan to see ours. You have no intentions of joining a free society is all that you are saying.

[Travlyr]

@Travlyr - You have chosen to live your life in fear. Don't subject others to it. I ain't afraid of the cops. Not one bit. And if you think all cops get paid vacation for killing innocent people, while the civilian murders all go to jail ... your living in Hollywood land brother. And I have no intentions of joining you.

Andrew, you are not reading well. I don't live my life in fear. I avoid confrontations with police. I don't even see them for months on end.

My point was that when police kill they are not subjected to the same punishment as when citizens kill. That's a fact.

If you are not afraid of cops, then you must be one of the lucky ones who have not had the door to your home kicked in, yet.

[Arklatex]

2. Don't blame the police for enforcing the law, they didn't create the law.



Such a "cop" out. :D

Go Dance!

[pcosmar]

That kind of attitude has no place in a forum dedicated to Ron Paul.
Police State USA


August 10, 2004
Police State USA

by Rep. Ron Paul

Last week's announcement that the terrorist threat warning level has been raised in parts of New York, New Jersey, and Washington, D.C., has led to dramatic and unprecedented restrictions on the movements of citizens. Americans wishing to visit the U.S. Capitol must, for example, pass through several checkpoints and submit to police inspection of their cars and persons.

Many Americans support the new security measures because they claim to feel safer when the government issues terror alerts and fills the streets with militarized police forces. As one tourist interviewed this week said, "It makes me feel comfortable to know that everything is being checked." It is ironic that tourists coming to Washington to celebrate the freedoms embodied in the Declaration of Independence are so eager to give up those freedoms with no questions asked.

Freedom is not defined by safety. Freedom is defined by the ability of citizens to live without government interference. Government cannot create a world without risks, nor would we really wish to live in such a fictional place. Only a totalitarian society would even claim absolute safety as a worthy ideal, because it would require total state control over its citizens' lives. This doesn't stop governments, including our own, from seeking more control over and intrusion into our lives. As one Member of Congress stated to the press last week, "people who don't want to be searched don't need to come on Capitol grounds." What an insult! The Capitol belongs to the American people who pay for it, not to Congress or the police.

It is worth noting that the government rushes first to protect itself, devoting enormous resources to make places like the Capitol grounds safe, while just beyond lies one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the nation. What makes Congress more worthy of protection from terrorists than ordinary citizens?

To understand the nature of our domestic response to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, we must understand the nature of government. Government naturally expands, and any crises – whether real or manufactured – serve to justify more and more government power over our lives. Bureaucrats have used the tragedy of 9/11 as an excuse to seize police powers sought for decades, such as warrantless searches, Internet monitoring, and access to bank records. It should be no surprise that the recently released report of the 9/11 Commission has but one central recommendation: bigger government and more spending at home and abroad.

Every new security measure represents another failure of the once-courageous American spirit. The more we change our lives, the more we obsess about terrorism, the more the terrorists have won. As commentator Lew Rockwell of the Ludwig von Mises Institute explains, terrorists in effect have been elevated by our response to 9/11: "They are running the country. They determine our civic life. They shape our private life. They decide how public resources are spent. They may dictate who gets to be the next president. It should be obvious that the government doesn't object. Not at all. The government benefits, by getting ever more reason for ever more money and power."

Every generation must resist the temptation to believe that it lives in the most dangerous time in American history. The threat of Islamic terrorism is real, but it is not the greatest danger ever faced by our nation. This is not to dismiss the threat of terrorism, but rather to put it in perspective. Those who seek to whip the nation into a frenzy of fear do a disservice to a country that expelled the British, fought two world wars, and stared down the Soviet empire.

Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.

You might really reconsider that statement. And please take time to educate yourself.
Ron Paul is the Champion of the Constitution, and a defender of Liberty.

[Travlyr]

It is precisely the police that are enabling the "judges, lawyers, and courts" to get away with the unjust "laws." Without them and their actions, the tyrants would be powerless. Similar to the Universal Soldier Ron Paul talks about.

+ rep
Well said!

[Jandrsn21]

Seen many conservative sites reporting about this, many comments look like these,

"The women in this video looks very much like a member of “Code Pink” organization. Was this a planned protest to create a situation? Looks like it to me."

Who cares who it is, people are so politically blinded, they will just agree or disagree with anything depending on who supports it! Ridiculous!

"This sends chills down my spine looking at this. If this doesn’t wake people up nothing else will. This type of behavior is spreading like flies. Rule of law, respect and disobedience is becoming the thing of the past. Where does it all lead?"

And of course someone from RPF had to chime in! :D

"Paramilitary goon SWAT teams busting into your house, shooting your dogs and tasering you?"

[KingRobbStark]

Props to Adam.

[Danke]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to noneedtoaggress again."


You have chosen to live your life in fear of what society would be like without the so-called protection of these "mindlessly impartial tools" of the state you're defending. They're "only doing their job" by robotically obeying whatever they are told to do. They shouldn't question or refuse what they're told, it's the judges fault, and the politicians fault. The system is broken and unjust, but it's not their fault, they just enforce unjust laws as they get paid to do they have no say in the matter.

When you take away the responsibilities of someone's actions, it enables them to act in depraved ways. "It wasn't my fault, I was just doing as I was told".

You're subjecting their violence on us who don't believe they are there to "protect and serve" us, but are there to keep us under control and the money flowing into the hands of the state.

You are living in policestateland, USA, brother, and just like those who don't want to see Dr. Paul's message, you don't wan to see ours. You have no intentions of joining a free society is all that you are saying.

[PaulConventionWV]

A lot of people here are missing the point that it shouldn't matter what we think of Adam's actions. Yes, he's a bright young man that may have the capability to run for office... but it's his RIGHT to do what he wants. We can't co opt him into the liberty movement if he wants to go get arrested. If you think that's dumb, that's fine, but you have no right to tell him he's doing the wrong thing.

Apparently, some people don't think that civil disobedience plays any role in the liberty movement. We can be mindless state drones until we are freed! What an interesting concept. Last time I checked, liberty movements were about liberty, not about political campaigns. There's a place for that, but we have no right to tell people that they have to do it our way. Adam had the perfect right to do this because it's his right to choose, and if we compromise that for the so-called electoral "liberty movement," then we are compromising the essence of liberty itself. If we tell people not to challenge the state until electoral victory is achieved, then we are upholding the state while fighting against it!

[GuerrillaXXI]

2. Don't blame the police for enforcing the law, they didn't create the law.

4. Given the fact that Adam and Co were breaking the law, they were rightfully arrested. Their particular actions caused them to be "Actively Resistant" in which the police officer has every right to lay hands and use "Contact Controls". These are Use of Force definitions.

6. Those of you calling on the police officers to "object" and not enforce the law have no right to say that. Doing so would end their career. Now they can't support their families or put food on the table or gas in the tank. And it's pointless. You quit your job to "make a point" and your left with nothing, and nothing changes. I don't see any of you quitting your jobs for the common good, or do you just so happen to have a comfortable career where everything is good to go? The fact is, if the police officer objects, there are much more effective ways of objecting without putting his own family at risk.Suppose it were illegal to criticize politicians or to practice a certain religion, and the police were ordered to shoot violators and all members of their families on sight. Would it be wrong to blame the police under those circumstances, too? After all, they'd just be following orders and trying to put food on the table, right?

If the law is wrong, then fuck the law! That goes double for blatantly unconstitutional laws. A law is obviously unjust if it forbids acts that harm no one and that don't disrupt people's lives in any significant way. Those who enforce them are every bit as guilty as those who write them. And no, "they need to make a living" isn't an excuse. Lots of people feed their families by doing honest work that doesn't involve trampling on someone else's liberties. Not only do the pigs willingly enforce shitty laws, they enjoy it.

I would have been most happy to see those weak-looking pussy cops get their asses stomped by the protesters AND the bystanders, though I recognize that the way the incident actually played out is probably more beneficial in the long run.

[Aratus]

even if i were to cut the D.C cops considerable slack given how
varied and numerous the many demonstrations have been over
the years, why again indeed was poor adam kokesh arrested?

[GunnyFreedom]

A lot of people here are missing the point that it shouldn't matter what we think of Adam's actions. Yes, he's a bright young man that may have the capability to run for office... but it's his RIGHT to do what he wants. We can't co opt him into the liberty movement if he wants to go get arrested. If you think that's dumb, that's fine, but you have no right to tell him he's doing the wrong thing.

Apparently, some people don't think that civil disobedience plays any role in the liberty movement. We can be mindless state drones until we are freed! What an interesting concept. Last time I checked, liberty movements were about liberty, not about political campaigns. There's a place for that, but we have no right to tell people that they have to do it our way. Adam had the perfect right to do this because it's his right to choose, and if we compromise that for the so-called electoral "liberty movement," then we are compromising the essence of liberty itself. If we tell people not to challenge the state until electoral victory is achieved, then we are upholding the state while fighting against it!

Let me disagree with one point here --

People have a right to tell anybody anything they like, no matter how crazy or disagreeable it is. I agree that people are wrong to disparage AK for doing this, and that people are kinda living in fantasyland trying to convince AK to put electability above civil disobedience. I do, however, disagree in the strongest terms that someone "has no right" to tell him...whatever.

We have the natural right, given to us by our creator as a condition of being human, to tell anybody anything that comes to mind, no matter how stupid or brilliant that advice may be. My objection to your post centers on the repeated phrase, "you have no right to tell him" "we have no right to tell people that" in fact we have EVERY right -- even if that advice is dumb -- just like AK has every right to ignore that advice and continue to do as he pleases.

I, for one, disagree with the people telling AK he was wrong to to this, but let's not lose sight of the fundamental purpose for doing all of this in the first place.

As I have said many times, and as I am certain AK has also said, "I vehemently disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."

[Nate]

If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.
~Henry David Thoreau

Anybody defending these thugs in costumes for assaulting people who have done nothing wrong has NO PLACE in any movement that defends & promotes liberty. I could care less what some fascist asshat in a black robe says or what "law" the petty tyrants posing as "elected representatives" pass, dancing ANYWHERE is not violating anybody & should be illegal in no way, shape or form. These "police" who enforce this stupidity are no better than Nazis & it is just 1 more reason why cops in this society are losing all credibility as "peacekeepers" of an sort. As was said earlier in this thread, "I was just doing my job" is an excuse that was not good enough at Nuremburg & it is not good enough now. Enforcing a stupid & unjust law by violently assaulting another person who has done nothing to anybody is a criminal act no matter what the State "law" says. If you support or justify it in any way then you are just as morally culpable as the thugs who perform these acts of assault & are the very reason why this country is in the state that it is.

[AndrewD]

When you take away the responsibilities of someone's actions, it enables them to act in depraved ways. "It wasn't my fault, I was just doing as I was told".

Props to the other dude for giving you rep on something that took nearly everything I posted out of context. I'm not justifying every single action of a police officer. And the "It wasn't my fault, I was just doing as I was told" argument doesn't apply in this case. If you had read my posts as a whole instead of taking out specific soundbites the same way the establishment destroys Ron, you would understand that my argument is to allow people the same freedom to interpret a law like this as you would like. Some people interpret dancing around on a memorial as disrespectful. Including the cops. So stop overgeneralizing everything. The sky is not falling down.


You're subjecting their violence on us who don't believe they are there to "protect and serve" us, but are there to keep us under control and the money flowing into the hands of the state.

And again, if you would stop the sensationalism and try to read things a little more clearly, you would see I didn't subject violence in the least. I condemned the violence. Go back and read this time.



You are living in policestateland, USA, brother, and just like those who don't want to see Dr. Paul's message, you don't wan to see ours. You have no intentions of joining a free society is all that you are saying.

I support Dr. Paul on the issues he is campaigning on. The issues he is publicly talking about addressing. Not any of this voluntarism or anarchy or any of his other personal beliefs. If he believes in Christianity does that mean I should fall in line and become a Christian too? For those of you who use Paul's views on voluntarism as a crutch to defend your own, keep in mind that he is not running nor intending on installing a voluntarist society in his presidential term. Just because changes need to be made, that doesn't mean you can expect the ball to be hit all the way into left field. It ain't happening bro.

[pcosmar]

I support Dr. Paul on the issues he is campaigning on. The issues he is publicly talking about addressing. .

Really,
I would hope to think so, but have not seen any evidence that you understand them yet. But please keep trying.

Dr. Paul is trying to Legalize Freedom. To END the Police State.
Then there is Sound, Honest money. A Sane Foreign Policy. Smaller Government.
Real National Defense (the militia) etc,etc etc.
The Constitution. and all that entails.

Stick around. Liberty is really worth fighting for.

[Nate]

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." –Thomas Jefferson

They should bring this quote & put it on a sign for the next time they do this at the THOMAS JEFFERSON memorial.

[AndrewD]

Dr. Paul is trying to Legalize Freedom. To END the Police State.

Right. But contrary to your PERSONAL desires, he will not be disbanding the police departments nationwide. Of course changes need to be made, but guess what the police are here to stay. I have been very tolerant of your personal beliefs. If you don't want cops in our country, that is your choice and you are completely entitled to it. But to try to flame me and second guess my own political stance because I agree with the police force, and try to imply that I am anti-Paul is completely ridiculous. As all can see your not getting away with it either.

And the same goes out to all you Anarchists out there. I don't care what Ron Paul says about Voluntaryism and all that. He ain't runnin on it. Would any of you register Republican and start running for office as Voluntaryists? Ha! I didn't think so. Those type of statements coming from Ron Paul are his own personal beliefs, just like his choice of religion. The Anarchists here have a real elitist mentality, and I have yet to see one ounce of tolerance come from them towards anything other than straight up free-market Anarchy.

As for me I am PRO Ron Paul and ANTI Anarchy. I know a lot of you don't like that, but too bad. I'll be here every day of the week to stand up with those who are against Anarchy. I already shut Conza88 down, whoever else wants to debate let me know and we can hash it out in our thread.

[kylejack]

Guess what, I see no problem with anyone smoking weed, but if i'm a cop and I take that oath to uphold the law, I will arrest you if I catch you smoking weed.
Well thank goodness I bumped into a sensible cop who let me go and not you, you authoritarian lapdog.

[Nate]

Well thank goodness I bumped into a sensible cop who let me go and not you, you authoritarian lapdog.

+1776

[aGameOfThrones]

To cops that say they're just doing their job, they don't make the "laws" they just enforce them, I'll say this... (Bad/unjust)"Laws control the lesser man... Right conduct controls the greater one."~ Mark Twain

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Right. But contrary to your PERSONAL desires, he will not be disbanding the police departments nationwide. Of course changes need to be made, but guess what the police are here to stay. I have been very tolerant of your personal beliefs. If you don't want cops in our country, that is your choice and you are completely entitled to it. But to try to flame me and second guess my own political stance because I agree with the police force, and try to imply that I am anti-Paul is completely ridiculous. As all can see your not getting away with it either.

And the same goes out to all you Anarchists out there. I don't care what Ron Paul says about Voluntaryism and all that. He ain't runnin on it. Would any of you register Republican and start running for office as Voluntaryists? Ha! I didn't think so. Those type of statements coming from Ron Paul are his own personal beliefs, just like his choice of religion. The Anarchists here have a real elitist mentality, and I have yet to see one ounce of tolerance come from them towards anything other than straight up free-market Anarchy.

As for me I am PRO Ron Paul and ANTI Anarchy. I know a lot of you don't like that, but too bad. I'll be here every day of the week to stand up with those who are against Anarchy. I already shut Conza88 down, whoever else wants to debate let me know and we can hash it out in our thread.

You don't believe in Liberty as a way of life, but as a slogan. You are about power, and wielding that power over people. This is the antithesis of what Ron Paul stands for.

[Nate]

You don't believe in Liberty as a way of life, but as a slogan. You are about power, and wielding that power over people. This is the antithesis of what Ron Paul stands for.

+rep

[pcosmar]

Right. But contrary to your PERSONAL desires, he will not be disbanding the police departments nationwide.

As for me I am PRO Ron Paul and ANTI Anarchy. .

You did not read the link I gave you did you? I do NOT promote Anarchy (I know, some do)
Please take time to read it. It concerns Constitutional Law Enforcement.
http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

In fact, Bookmarking the Constitution Society Page is a good idea.
http://constitution.org/c5/index.php

Ron does plan end several Federal Agencies that are directly tied to the Police State. And largely responsible for it.
You can also bet that local police will have their federal funding cut drastically (that's where they get their toys)

[amy31416]

Well thank goodness I bumped into a sensible cop who let me go and not you, you authoritarian lapdog.

Free thought doesn't seem to be his strong point. Wonder if he'd do that to his own son, knowing that he'd essentially destroy his life by turning him into a criminal (hard to get a job in the future), and making him a potential rape victim in prison (potential life-long psychological damage).

All for smoking a substance that most of our fearless leaders have smoked with no repercussions.

[aGameOfThrones]

Right. But contrary to your PERSONAL desires, he will not be disbanding the police departments nationwide. Of course changes need to be made, but guess what the police are here to stay. I have been very tolerant of your personal beliefs. If you don't want cops in our country, that is your choice and you are completely entitled to it. But to try to flame me and second guess my own political stance because I agree with the police force, and try to imply that I am anti-Paul is completely ridiculous. As all can see your not getting away with it either.

And the same goes out to all you Anarchists out there. I don't care what Ron Paul says about Voluntaryism and all that. He ain't runnin on it. Would any of you register Republican and start running for office as Voluntaryists? Ha! I didn't think so. Those type of statements coming from Ron Paul are his own personal beliefs, just like his choice of religion. The Anarchists here have a real elitist mentality, and I have yet to see one ounce of tolerance come from them towards anything other than straight up free-market Anarchy.

As for me I am PRO Ron Paul and ANTI Anarchy. I know a lot of you don't like that, but too bad. I'll be here every day of the week to stand up with those who are against Anarchy. I already shut Conza88 down, whoever else wants to debate let me know and we can hash it out in our thread.

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[pcosmar]

Apparently rejecting Authoritarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism)=Anarchy

Who Knew? Someone should tell Ron he's wrong about everything. :rolleyes:

[Fredom101]

People, anarchy just means "no leader". Most of us are not for the appointing of leaders for us. So if you say you are "against anarchy", it really means you are against the idea of people having the freedom to choose who their leaders will be, or if they even want leaders. Forcing presidents and congresspeople on other people is not a free society.

[Fredom101]

A lot of people here are missing the point that it shouldn't matter what we think of Adam's actions. Yes, he's a bright young man that may have the capability to run for office... but it's his RIGHT to do what he wants. We can't co opt him into the liberty movement if he wants to go get arrested. If you think that's dumb, that's fine, but you have no right to tell him he's doing the wrong thing.

Apparently, some people don't think that civil disobedience plays any role in the liberty movement. We can be mindless state drones until we are freed! What an interesting concept. Last time I checked, liberty movements were about liberty, not about political campaigns. There's a place for that, but we have no right to tell people that they have to do it our way. Adam had the perfect right to do this because it's his right to choose, and if we compromise that for the so-called electoral "liberty movement," then we are compromising the essence of liberty itself. If we tell people not to challenge the state until electoral victory is achieved, then we are upholding the state while fighting against it!

Great post, props. :)

[NewRightLibertarian]

People, anarchy just means "no leader". Most of us are not for the appointing of leaders for us. So if you say you are "against anarchy", it really means you are against the idea of people having the freedom to choose who their leaders will be, or if they even want leaders. Forcing presidents and congresspeople on other people is not a free society.

Anarchy and capitalism are synonyms according to Rothbard. The government which wants to remain in power attempts to use 'anarchy' as a term meaning 'chaos' or 'mass dysfunction and disorder' when under an anarchist political system we'd undoubtedly have less chaos, dysfunction and disorder than the one currently

[pcosmar]

People, anarchy just means "no leader". Most of us are not for the appointing of leaders for us. So if you say you are "against anarchy", it really means you are against the idea of people having the freedom to choose who their leaders will be, or if they even want leaders. Forcing presidents and congresspeople on other people is not a free society.

We aren't supposed to be electing "Leaders".
We are supposed to be electing representatives.

We lead, we tell them what to do, Not the other way around as it has become.

I support Ron Paul because he represents ME.

[mac_hine]

Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance. ~Author Unknown

[Karl]

life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance. ~author unknown

amen!

[Anti Federalist]

Do you cringe when you see Joe Schmoe walking down the street? He has the power to kill you on the spot. Anyone can, at any time. If you want to live your life in fear that's your choice.

No, not at all, because I can defend myself against a "Joe Schmoe" or a "Mundane" if he should choose to assault me.

If a cop decides he wants to kick my ass, for any reason, or no reason at all, I have no choice but to sit quietly and take my ass beating.

Any resistance to said assault will be met almost instantly with deadly force, rendering me dead.

And because of that, you are much more likely to be assaulted in a random encounter with a cop than a random encounter with a fellow Mundane.

Proof of that statement in this thread:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?254109-Report-released-on-nationwide-police-misconduct

[Napoleon's Shadow]

I'm curious as to how they define "dancing"I believe a Supreme Court Justice once said "I can't tell you what pornography is, but I know it when I see it" :rolleyes:

[Napoleon's Shadow]

What is the point of a non-violent protest in this particular venue? We know the expected outcome. Criminal syndicate rooted in our judicial system passes un-American laws. Police in turn enforce these criminal laws, when they are directly violated. I just see this entire exercise as pointless. At the end of the day, tyrants only understand force. Perhaps, but would you say that the original Boston Tea Party was "pointless"?



I agree. He's jumping around like a jackass. If you want to engage the cops, I'll be right there standing besides you, but to prance around the Jefferson Memorial is extremely counterproductive.


I get the feeling that Adam, like a lot of people in the Liberty movement, seriously needs to take some time to read How to Win Friends and Influence People. Because, believe me, this ain't the way.A lot of way that black people were treated in the South in the 60's helped solidify resolve for the cause of "civil" rights; especially since much of it was caught on film. These kind of actions and resistance while not solely in the political realm, can and do have an effect on the psyche of the average American who sees them.


I doubt Adam is running for office again. Really, stuff like this is more down his alley than pandering for the Republican Grandma vote. I think we need a two-pronged attack: Guys like Rand running serious campaigns and getting into office, and guys like Adam drawing attention to how bad things have really gotten. Exactly, civil disobedience is not only a part of winning and retaining freedoms, but a very necessary aspect of it too (think back to the revolution)

[Theocrat]

People, anarchy just means "no leader". Most of us are not for the appointing of leaders for us. So if you say you are "against anarchy", it really means you are against the idea of people having the freedom to choose who their leaders will be, or if they even want leaders. Forcing presidents and congresspeople on other people is not a free society.


We aren't supposed to be electing "Leaders".
We are supposed to be electing representatives.

We lead, we tell them what to do, Not the other way around as it has become.

I support Ron Paul because he represents ME.

Exactly, pcosmar. Even so, true leaders lead by serving, not by hoarding their office over people and using it as an excuse for more power.

I'm sorry to break it to you, Fredom101, but there will always be leaders in life. Having said that, I don't think my voting is forcing any leader upon you or any other anarchist because it's the responsibility of those elected to follow the rules of their office in governing, as well as the duty of voters to hold their elected officials accountable in their respective offices. We don't just give those guys a seat, and then leave them alone to do as they please. They are entrusted to obey the rule of law and respect God-given rights of their constituents. If they don't, then they get "fired" when we elect another into office.

Remember, our politicians are elected servants, not masters.

[Napoleon's Shadow]

You know, I am getting really sick of "most repugnant voters".

Perhaps they will get exactly what they deserve.We are indeed getting the government that most Americans deserve. Unfortunately I have to suffer through it too :(


Listen, I think the court was wrong too, but the cops have the job of enforcing the law. Only if the law is just.


It is our job as citizens to get the law changed.That can be achieved legislatively (electorally)/politically, OR by nullification (jury or state) or by disobedience.



Frankly, I think the lead cop was pretty nice, all things considered. And many people on their way to the Gulag were still praising Stalin's name! :rolleyes:

Just because someone is "nice" to you while they abridging your liberties doesn't mean a damn thing. :mad:

[kylejack]

It was civil disobedience, so I think there was an understanding between the demonstrators and the police that the demonstrators would be arrested. That's fine. That's what the demonstrators wanted, to call attention to the ridiculous law. I don't mind so much that the cops performed the arrest.

It's the ultra-violence that didn't make any sense.

[Napoleon's Shadow]

Next time we are all in Washington DC for an event(like CPAC) we should organize a dance off at the Jefferson Memorial
Value Voters Summit in DC; apparently there is a RP2012 March on DC being put together too.

[Fredom101]

We aren't supposed to be electing "Leaders".
We are supposed to be electing representatives.

We lead, we tell them what to do, Not the other way around as it has become.

I support Ron Paul because he represents ME.

Ok, but what if I choose not to abide by the rules that your chosen representative sets up? Do you still want to force that representative on me against my will?

[Fredom101]

Exactly, pcosmar. Even so, true leaders lead by serving, not by hoarding their office over people and using it as an excuse for more power.

I'm sorry to break it to you, Fredom101, but there will always be leaders in life. Having said that, I don't think my voting is forcing any leader upon you or any other anarchist because it's the responsibility of those elected to follow the rules of their office in governing, as well as the duty of voters to hold their elected officials accountable in their respective offices. We don't just give those guys a seat, and then leave them alone to do as they please. They are entrusted to obey the rule of law and respect God-given rights of their constituents. If they don't, then they get "fired" when we elect another into office.

Remember, our politicians are elected servants, not masters.

How's this working out?

[pcosmar]

Ok, but what if I choose not to abide by the rules that your chosen representative sets up? Do you still want to force that representative on me against my will?
Once again. They are not supposed to be "setting rules".
Those were set long ago. They were supposed to be limited.
Unfortunately, the Constitution has been ignored for a long long time.
This is what Ron Paul would like to correct.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aLtl6ZnUnM

"I don't want to run your life"
Ron Paul

[Vessol]

It's really disturbing me how many people here are attacking Kokesh for what he did, rather than attacking who is really at fault: Boot-heeled thugs of the State tyranny.

[jmdrake]

So I take it then that you are against the oathkeepers? Because the whole point of the oathkeepers is that the police and the military should uphold their duty to defend the constitution over whatever it is that is passing for "law" at the time. It doesn't matter if they think that law is a good law or not. It doesn't matter if they'll be fired or arrested themselves for obeying the constitution. Really oathkeepers shouldn't even be required. Police should uphold the constitution. And no, that's not just a matter of "opinion". As a society we give the power to kill people because we assume they'll take that power seriously instead of basic it on their "opinion". This isn't like working at Burger King after all.


Do you cringe when you see Joe Schmoe walking down the street? He has the power to kill you on the spot. Anyone can, at any time. If you want to live your life in fear that's your choice.



The Constitution is the law of the land. How am I wrong again? Or are you pushing semantics to try and prove a point?



Strawman.



Wrong. It's the people that are enabling the lawmakers through elections and their elected representatives.

Look. The law in question here is silly. But i'm not stating that as fact, it is merely my opinion. You think the law is silly or unjust? Great opinion. But quit telling other people what to do and how to act. Maybe the police officers agree with the law. Maybe they think the memorial is sacred and don't want people disrespecting it, especially after they gave fair warning. Maybe when your jumping and dancing around like a buffoon on an official monument, that angers people. Especially when the law was already passed. And i'm not advocating the violence in any way, merely the act of arresting.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion. But don't be subjecting others to it and trying to call them out like they should end their entire career based on what YOU believe. That is where this thread took a wrong turn, and that is what i'm calling you guys out on. If you have a problem with the law, take it up with the lawmakers.

[Kalebthefinn]

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=150453268357946

DANCE PARTY SCHEDULED BY AK OVER 500 ATTENDING!!
Saturday, June 4 · 12:00pm - 1:00pm

[speciallyblend]

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=150453268357946

DANCE PARTY SCHEDULED BY AK OVER 500 ATTENDING!!
Saturday, June 4 · 12:00pm - 1:00pm

yeah i saw that, That is action and shows it was a success,now if they have 500 plus folks show up and they arrest them then we show with 1000 then 2000 then 3000 until the law is changed!

[loveshiscountry]

It's really disturbing me how many people here are attacking Kokesh for what he did, rather than attacking who is really at fault: Boot-heeled thugs of the State tyranny.

They didn't like his style. It was style over substance that got Obama elected.

[PaulConventionWV]

Let me disagree with one point here --

People have a right to tell anybody anything they like, no matter how crazy or disagreeable it is. I agree that people are wrong to disparage AK for doing this, and that people are kinda living in fantasyland trying to convince AK to put electability above civil disobedience. I do, however, disagree in the strongest terms that someone "has no right" to tell him...whatever.

We have the natural right, given to us by our creator as a condition of being human, to tell anybody anything that comes to mind, no matter how stupid or brilliant that advice may be. My objection to your post centers on the repeated phrase, "you have no right to tell him" "we have no right to tell people that" in fact we have EVERY right -- even if that advice is dumb -- just like AK has every right to ignore that advice and continue to do as he pleases.

I, for one, disagree with the people telling AK he was wrong to to this, but let's not lose sight of the fundamental purpose for doing all of this in the first place.

As I have said many times, and as I am certain AK has also said, "I vehemently disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."

It really wasn't my intention to suppress anyone's freedom of speech. I misspoke there, but I thought people would know what I meant. What I meant was that it would be silly for us to try to tell adam what to do. To me, they have the right to say that, but they should know Adam has no obligation to us, and therefore, I think it's morally wrong for us to tell him what he should do to support the liberty movement. If you think it's most practical to do it another way, then disagree quietly with his actions and find someone else to take his place. We can't support the state by opposing civil disobedience, NO MATTER WHO IT IS DOING THE DISOBEDIENCE. That is my point.

[Napoleon's Shadow]

2. Don't blame the police for enforcing the law, they didn't create the law. WRONG! Any law that is unjust is not to be upheld or obeyed.


Let's take the Jim Crow laws in the first half of last century for example.... Would you say "don't blame the police for not letting black people drink out of a white water fountain?" :rolleyes:

I would hope not.



6. Those of you calling on the police officers to "object" and not enforce the law have no right to say that. Doing so would end their career.They can't fire the entire police force, policies WOULD change if more than one LEO disregarded absurd or unjust laws.



Now they can't support their families or put food on the table or gas in the tank. And it's pointless. You quit your job to "make a point" and your left with nothing, and nothing changes. The Founders put much more at risk than just "their job". :rolleyes:



I don't see any of you quitting your jobs for the common good, or do you just so happen to have a comfortable career where everything is good to go? The fact is, if the police officer objects, there are much more effective ways of objecting without putting his own family at risk.On the contrary, one should not put themselves into that position of having to make a choice. If one is worried about their family then they should consider a safer and less contentious career path than law enforcement.


The only reason you should be pissed at the police is because of the violence. Otherwise, start throwing darts at the judges, lawyers, and courts. THEY are the one's that made this law. Guess what, I see no problem with anyone smoking weed, but if i'm a cop and I take that oath to uphold the law, I will arrest you if I catch you smoking weed. The point is, police officers have a duty and responsibility to be impartial. It's not the police officers job to pick and choose what he wants to enforce. With a theory like that, you would have a REAL police state.

And i'm not saying people here have no right to object. I'm saying you have no place to condemn the police officer for not objecting. Maybe he agrees with the law. Maybe not. Either way it IS the law and he is enforcing it. In other words doing his job. If the law is immoral, as many here believe, then the problem is above his level. Adjust your sights.You have it absolutely wrong.

The government's job is to secure liberty, at all levels.


Was it a responsible act to interrupt a tour? Don't visitors have to pay for these tours or do the taxpayers foot the bill? Would a judge allow such an exhibition in a publicly funded courtroom?You have obviously never been to the Jefferson Memorial.

It's kind of like a fountain in the city square - it just sits there. You just walk up to it, it's open air, and there are no entrances, exits, gates, fees, turn styles, etc. There are no tour guides or employees of the place either.

[LibertyEagle]

WRONG! Any law that is unjust is not to be upheld or obeyed.


Let's take the Jim Crow laws in the first half of last century for example.... Would you say "don't blame the police for not letting black people drink out of a white water fountain?" :rolleyes:

I would hope not.


They can't fire the entire police force, policies WOULD change if more than one LEO disregarded absurd or unjust laws.


The Founders put much more at risk than just "their job". :rolleyes:


On the contrary, one should not put themselves into that position of having to make a choice. If one is worried about their family then they should consider a safer and less contentious career path than law enforcement.

You have it absolutely wrong.

The government's job is to secure liberty, at all levels.

You have obviously never been to the Jefferson Memorial.

It's kind of like a fountain in the city square - it just sits there. You just walk up to it, it's open air, and there are no entrances, exits, gates, fees, turn styles, etc. There are no tour guides or employees of the place either.

Question. Do you pay the income tax?

[pcosmar]

Question. Do you pay the income tax?

I haven't for 5 years. I did before on the threat of people with guns coming if I did not.
How is that relevant?

[LibertyEagle]

It wasn't directed towards you, pcosmar. lolol.

[jmdrake]

Question. Do you pay the income tax?

Paying the income tax isn't upholding an unjust law. It's submitting to one. If you wanted a real comparison you could have asked "Would you work for the IRS?" I myself would not. Don't put the scared shopowners who pay the mafia their protection money in the same category and the mob enforcers who collect it.

[pcosmar]

My comment aside, I am still curious as to how it is relevant?

[LibertyEagle]

My comment aside, I am still curious as to how it is relevant?


WRONG! Any law that is unjust is not to be upheld or obeyed.

...

[kylejack]

I think the next sentence made clear he was trying to draw an analog to this situation.

[pcosmar]

...

Ah,
I have a rather unique perspective on that but don't want to completely highjack this thread.
Complying under threat is not exactly the same as obeying. though the end result is the same.

[aGameOfThrones]

On the contrary, one should not put themselves into that position of having to make a choice. If one is worried about their family then they should consider a safer and less contentious career path than law enforcement.


It doesn't even make the top ten most dangerous jobs.

[PaulConventionWV]

...

I, for one, don't think anyone is under obligation to treat all laws equally. If you don't pay the income tax, you may go to jail for a long time or have to give up your property, your rights, etc. If you practice a little civil disobedience, it shows the absurdity of the system, and you spend maybe a weekend in jail. Nobody said he had to treat the income tax the same as a dance party. If we had liberty, we wouldn't be forced to make a choice between which unjust law we want to follow, but since we are, we should make the best of it, and I think a cost-benefit analysis is in order. Some people are brave and resist paying. That is their choice. It's unfortunate that people have to suffer under these laws, but subjecting yourself to them doesn't create a dilemma because you are simply doing what is in your best interest as a citizen. If you had real freedom, you wouldn't be forced to make such a judgment about the validity of one unjust law over another because neither of them would have been incorporated.

[angelatc]

How's this working out?

Better than your plan.

[Wesker1982]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQcmlBV6mYQ&feature=feedlik

[Wesker1982]

Also,

A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having! - Ⓥ

[heavenlyboy34]

+100000 @ Adam. If he were here, I'd +rep him.

[TruckinMike]

+100000 @ Adam. If he were here, I'd +rep him.

Ditto!

Edit:

My favorite Adam K quote -- referring to violence in law enforcement--@1:15 in the above clip


"its really just the bad apples that give the other 5% a bad name"

HA HA

[puppetmaster]

yeah i saw that, That is action and shows it was a success,now if they have 500 plus folks show up and they arrest them then we show with 1000 then 2000 then 3000 until the law is changed!


What about getting something going in every state?
This is unreal.....

[AuH20]

They didn't like his style. It was style over substance that got Obama elected.

Plus Rep. ;)

[doodle]

Also,

A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having! - Ⓥ

Yes.

[PaulConventionWV]

+100000 @ Adam. If he were here, I'd +rep him.

If he were here, I'd have his babies!!

Haha... nah, I'm a dude...

[buck000]

One of my favorite moments in the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jUU3yCy3uI) I saw was about 5 seconds in, when the policeman asked "is there somebody that's leading you all here or..." and one of the group points to the statue of Jefferson. Note the policeman's "oh, yeah, yeah" response. :-|

[buck000]

Oh, and this is an interesting take on the incident:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/88960.html#more-88960

http://images.politico.com/global/070730_thisdayjuly31.jpg

[Captain America]

I'm very disappointed this is not a major scandal. He was not given an order. I give Adam a lot of credit for exposing this terrible image of what they have let this country become.

[Captain America]

"... God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950)

[ClayTrainor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2_iu0qH0fY

[Nate-ForLiberty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2_iu0qH0fY

"What people mean when they say the word 'Sacred' is, "I have an irrational attachment to bullshit, and I will punch you in the face if you question it"."

LOL!! :D right on Stef!

[nodance]

Kokesh is the Man!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oPAMbUCCIE

[torchbearer]

there are no ex-marines.