Official Iowa Campaign asks you to please stop making calls with a different phone bank

[Jeremy]

If you want to help out in Iowa and you do not live in Iowa, sign up here instead of using the unofficial phone banking system:

http://iowaforronpaul.com/get-involved.php


Hey Jeremy,

I actually believe the best way to get everyone on the same page and ensure the most success for Ron Paul is not to have different people making calls. Specifically because we are setting up a system to have grassroots supporters be able to call Iowa residents. The problem with all of these different phone plans is that it really messes up the data, calls the wrong people several times, and does hurt the percentage for Ron Paul.

It's much better if things can be coordinated and we can target the people who we know support Ron Paul. So any way you can help with this would be very much appreciated. I really want to push people who want to make calls to the IowaForRonPaul.com website and then have them sign up as wanting to get involved.

- Steve

[trey4sports]

As soon as I hear something from the campaign and they alert me that they have a system in place ill be happy to switch.

[Austin]

It's good to know that they are setting up a system to have us make calls. I hope it is unveiled soon, as any duplication of efforts is not only a waste of our time, but has the potential to do more harm than good.

I encourage everyone that is making calls with the wildfire system to hold off for a week or so to see what the campaign has in store. It is clear that we have the numbers and the motivation, so the ball is in their court, and they need to show that they are ready to put us to work.

I am confident we will not be disappointed. :)

[Jeremy]

As soon as I hear something from the campaign and they alert me that they have a system in place ill be happy to switch.

Why? You don't realize the problems you are causing.

[belian78]

This is what I was afraid of with the phone banking, as its exactly what happened back in 08. Please people, don't take this as a slight by the campaign and don't look at it as heavyhanded either. Look at this as the campaign is showing once again that they are in it to win it, sign up for their banking system and dial away. :D

[trey4sports]

Why? You don't realize the problems you are causing.

right.

I'm sure the campaign will be able to call everyone on the registered Iowa GOP list.

How many campaigns have you worked on Jeremy? What are you doing right now for Ron Paul 2012?

[Jeremy]

right.

I'm sure the campaign will be able to call everyone on the registered Iowa GOP list.

How many campaigns have you worked on Jeremy? What are you doing right now for Ron Paul 2012?
I'm not the one asking you to stop, Steve is. Steve is Iowa Executive Director.

[ForLibertyFight]

As soon as I hear something from the campaign and they alert me that they have a system in place ill be happy to switch.

Same here.

I'm not going to wait around for the campaign... I believe that's a big mistake.

[reduen]

Dude, I would welcome seeing the "official campaign" finally step up and show some competence! It would be very encouraging at this point..

[reduen]

If you want to help out in Iowa and you do not live in Iowa, sign up here instead of using the unofficial phone banking system:

http://iowaforronpaul.com/get-involved.php

I signed up at the official site and have heard nothing from them to this point. (Not even a confirmation..)

[Jeremy]

Dude, I would welcome seeing the "official campaign" finally step up and show some competence! It would be very encouraging at this point..

The campaign's approach, in your opinion, is incompetent. Your approach, in the campaign's opinion, is incompetent. Who has the bigger picture about how we are going to win the straw poll and caucus? Who was hired by Ron Paul to win the straw poll and caucus? Who has an actual plan to win the straw poll and caucus?

[reduen]

The campaign's approach, in your opinion, is incompetent. Your approach, in the campaign's opinion, is incompetent. Who has the bigger picture about how we are going to win the straw poll and caucus? Who was hired by Ron Paul to win the straw poll and caucus? Who has an actual plan to win the straw poll and caucus?

Whos money are they using to accomplish these goals? How well did their plans work in 08?

I personally will wait to move on this type of stuff until I get the go ahead from the campaign. I was just stating the fact that I am very anxious to see that they really mean business this time. :)

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

The campaign's approach, in your opinion, is incompetent. Your approach, in the campaign's opinion, is incompetent. Who has the bigger picture about how we are going to win the straw poll and caucus? Who was hired by Ron Paul to win the straw poll and caucus? Who has an actual plan to win the straw poll and caucus?

I would reckon doing something is better than doing nothing, incompetent or otherwise. I find it disturbing you place such faith in one man to plan out everything that will succeed. If we know anything it is that, that is a losing formula. Let a thousand ideas flourish and the best ones will rise to the top.

[notsure]

Same here.

I'm not going to wait around for the campaign... I believe that's a big mistake.
Bump.

What does Steve mean by, "messing up data and calling the wrong people?
IMO the advantages of different callers far out-weigh any 'harm' they could cause.
Repetitive calls wouldn't make it or break it for me. I'd just think that the guy is popular.
I could be wrong, but that's just how I feel.

[Jeremy]

Bump.

What does Steve mean by, "messing up data and calling the wrong people?
IMO the advantages of different callers far out-weigh any 'harm' they could cause.
Repetitive calls wouldn't make it or break it for me. I'd just think that the guy is popular.
I could be wrong, but that's just how I feel.

Getting the same call multiple times is not good. I believe this happened with the Schiff phone bank and it angered people. According to sailingaway, it happened in the Rand campaign too.

[PaulConventionWV]

Same here.

I'm not going to wait around for the campaign... I believe that's a big mistake.

Don't you realize the implications, though? The foolishness needs to stop. You could be messing things up more than you think. The campaign isn't stubborn, it's just concerned. Stop acting like you are the only one who knows what to do.

[Austin]

Don't you realize the implications, though? The foolishness needs to stop. You could be messing things up more than you think. The campaign isn't stubborn, it's just concerned. Stop acting like you are the only one who knows what to do.

Yeah, that's the thing. No one knows for sure what to do, because we don't have all of the information from the campaign. That's why I advise we hold off for a week or so to see what actions the campaign takes.

[PaulConventionWV]

Whos money are they using to accomplish these goals? How well did their plans work in 08?

I personally will wait to move on this type of stuff until I get the go ahead from the campaign. I was just stating the fact that I am very anxious to see that they really mean business this time. :)

In your blindness, you charge ahead, unaware of the destruction in your wake.

Your money doesn't give you the competence to run things. If you really wanted to help the cause, you would support the campaign instead of railing against it.

[Ethek]

If this is anything like Rands campaign we should be able to do targeted calling to high percentage GOP caucus goers with a planned message and most importantly collect valid data for a GOTV effort. Its a good system

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

In your blindness, you charge ahead, unaware of the destruction in your wake.

Your money doesn't give you the competence to run things. If you really wanted to help the cause, you would support the campaign instead of railing against it.

Silly me -- I thought actually reaching out to potential voters is helping Ron. I guess it only counts if it comes from a central authority. If the campaign wants us to follow their lead, how about they actually get out in front? Something tells me that if the entire campaign is run by a central authority it isn't going to turn out like you think it will. I have more faith in emergent and spontaneous order than I do central authorities. I also find your last sentence highly ironic on a libertarian forum....

Look it appears that the campaign wants non-Iowans to butt out of Iowa. We'll see how that turns out.

[trey4sports]

I understand Steves complaint about wasting effort and potentially alienating voters, but heres the thing.... the Iowa GOP list is HUGE, and time is short. We have to not only ID support, we then have to do a GOTV effort as well. It would be IDEAL if we had the campaign roll out a phone-bank system and we could all be on the same page, but until that happens we have to do what we can.

[Jeremy]

Look it appears that the campaign wants non-Iowans to butt out of Iowa. We'll see how that turns out.I don't think that is true, but they are being careful with how they use out of state volunteers. I'm sure Iowans are bombarded with countless amounts of political people telling them what to do. The more Iowans volunteering instead of non-Iowans, the better.

[Jeremy]

I understand Steves complaint about wasting effort and potentially alienating voters, but heres the thing.... the Iowa GOP list is HUGE, and time is short. We have to not only ID support, we then have to do a GOTV effort as well. It would be IDEAL if we had the campaign roll out a phone-bank system and we could all be on the same page, but until that happens we have to do what we can.

I believe they are trying to win the straw poll at the moment, which means calling people who support Ron.

[trey4sports]

I believe they are trying to win the straw poll at the moment, which means calling people who support Ron.

Then our lists shouldnt overlap a huge deal. The GR phonebank list is the standard GOP registration list from Iowa. (I believe, im not 100% sure though)

[rp08orbust]

If you don't trust Ron Paul to appoint competent Iowa campaign staff, how can you trust him to make the 1000s of appointments that will need to be made if he becomes president?

[ForLibertyFight]

Then our lists shouldnt overlap a huge deal. The GR phonebank list is the standard GOP registration list from Iowa. (I believe, im not 100% sure though)

I'm quoting Jun Dam, the manager of the operation, from one of our email conversations


We will eventually narrow down the list to Independents/Republicans with active voting history, but I have to have the vendor fix some data import issues.. Otherwise I think it's good to test out the voter universe that is geographically the closest.

I was going to eliminate Dems, but there was some data issues so I just got all voter phone #'s for Ames, Iowas. (Probably 28k+ good #'s)... most are landlines.. some are cells.

[Badger Paul]

I think there's still some mistrust between the grassroots and the "official." Remember the Operation Spooner fiasco four years ago? People are chomping at the bit wanting to help in any way they can and we've already got the jump on our opponents unlike four years ago, but I understand the main campaign's fear that independent phonebanking operations will hurt them and there's evidence to show it has done so in the past.

There's no question the official campaign has done a much, much better job of communicating with the grassroots this time around and they have more of an organization structure in Iowa than they did four years ago. Out of respect, I think it would be wise to hold off on any more independent phone calling for the moment, especially since RP has the organizational lead in Iowa right now (hell, we didn't start calling Iowans until late July four years ago). But only for the moment. The official campaign has to realize if they don't get their system up and running soon, people are going to start to ignore them and go off on their own whether they like it or not because time is ticking away and other campaigns are gearing up and waiting around for the "central office" do something defeats the purpose of this whole enterprise . Needless to say we have a very independent bunch here and they're not going to sit on their thumbs for long waiting for "orders" that may or not come at all. It is in the "official's" best interests to display they have good, well-run organization in Iowa and across the country to keep people from working at cross-purposes with them.

Four years ago the grassroots could be so cavalier because there national campaign didn't have much of an organizational structure. We were the campaign for all intents and purposes. Now we have to learn to live with each other and work together to ensure our common goal.

[hueylong]

The campaign is right on this. They don't need people calling into Iowa with an uncontrolled message.

[belian78]

Four years ago the grassroots could be so cavalier because there national campaign didn't have much of an organizational structure. We were the campaign for all intents and purposes. Now we have to learn to live with each other and work together to ensure our common goal.

+rep
Entire post is spot on.

[Ninja Homer]

Originally Posted by Steve Bierfeldt
Hey Jeremy,

I actually believe the best way to get everyone on the same page and ensure the most success for Ron Paul is not to have different people making calls. Specifically because we are setting up a system to have grassroots supporters be able to call Iowa residents. The problem with all of these different phone plans is that it really messes up the data, calls the wrong people several times, and does hurt the percentage for Ron Paul.

It's much better if things can be coordinated and we can target the people who we know support Ron Paul. So any way you can help with this would be very much appreciated. I really want to push people who want to make calls to the IowaForRonPaul.com website and then have them sign up as wanting to get involved.

- Steve

This is ridiculous. There's already a phone bank up and running, and the campaign needs to use it. There isn't anything wrong with making multiple calls to the same person... in the telemarketing industry that's called nurturing a lead.

It can be a problem if there are multiple calls to the same person that say the same thing and ask the same questions... that can anger the lead. Steve Bierfeldt needs to get in touch with the person that's running the grassroots phone bank, and then they can modify the phone script, give the official campaign the data they've acquired so far, and then move ahead making calls with the new phone script until the official campaign gets their phone bank up and running.

There's no reason to throw out the work that's been done so far. It's just going to take a volunteer a day or 2 to integrate the grassroots data into the official campaign data.

***I'm not a telemarketing guru, but my wife IS... I just get to hear about it every night after work. :D

[trey4sports]

This is ridiculous. There's already a phone bank up and running, and the campaign needs to use it. There isn't anything wrong with making multiple calls to the same person... in the telemarketing industry that's called nurturing a lead.

It can be a problem if there are multiple calls to the same person that say the same thing and ask the same questions... that can anger the lead. Steve Bierfeldt needs to get in touch with the person that's running the grassroots phone bank, and then they can modify the phone script, give the official campaign the data they've acquired so far, and then move ahead making calls with the new phone script until the official campaign gets their phone bank up and running.

There's no reason to throw out the work that's been done so far. It's just going to take a volunteer a day or 2 to integrate the grassroots data into the official campaign data.

***I'm not a telemarketing guru, but my wife IS... I just get to hear about it every night after work. :D

Unfortunately, they cannot share information per FEC guidelines.

[Ninja Homer]

Unfortunately, they cannot share information per FEC guidelines.

Damn, I forgot about that BS. I guess the campaign would have to buy the grassroots data from a PAC or something. What a PITA... sometimes I really hate politics.

[IndianaPolitico]

As someone who has done a good bit of phonebanking I can tell you that we should hold off and wait for the campaign to give us the go ahead. People get really upset when they have been called multiple times for the same candidate. And not only does it turn people off, it wastes volunteer's time. There are 80 days until the straw poll, people don't want to be called that early! The campaign knows what they are doing.

[Bobster]

i think there's still some mistrust between the grassroots and the "official." remember the operation spooner fiasco four years ago? People are chomping at the bit wanting to help in any way they can and we've already got the jump on our opponents unlike four years ago, but i understand the main campaign's fear that independent phonebanking operations will hurt them and there's evidence to show it has done so in the past.

There's no question the official campaign has done a much, much better job of communicating with the grassroots this time around and they have more of an organization structure in iowa than they did four years ago. Out of respect, i think it would be wise to hold off on any more independent phone calling for the moment, especially since rp has the organizational lead in iowa right now (hell, we didn't start calling iowans until late july four years ago). But only for the moment. The official campaign has to realize if they don't get their system up and running soon, people are going to start to ignore them and go off on their own whether they like it or not because time is ticking away and other campaigns are gearing up and waiting around for the "central office" do something defeats the purpose of this whole enterprise . Needless to say we have a very independent bunch here and they're not going to sit on their thumbs for long waiting for "orders" that may or not come at all. It is in the "official's" best interests to display they have good, well-run organization in iowa and across the country to keep people from working at cross-purposes with them.

Four years ago the grassroots could be so cavalier because there national campaign didn't have much of an organizational structure. We were the campaign for all intents and purposes. Now we have to learn to live with each other and work together to ensure our common goal.
qft.

[angelatc]

This is ridiculous. There's already a phone bank up and running, and the campaign needs to use it. There isn't anything wrong with making multiple calls to the same person.

Unless that person asks not to be taken off the list. What's ridiculous is not signing up at the link above and waiting for your script.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Specifically because we are setting up a system to have grassroots supporters be able to call Iowa residents.

Translation: With time short, we want you to stop using a working system and wait till we coagulate our fecal matter. WE ARE IN CONTROL! And you guys are making us look bad...


We will eventually narrow down the list to Independents/Republicans with active voting history, but I have to have the vendor fix some data import issues.. Otherwise I think it's good to test out the voter universe that is geographically the closest.

I was going to eliminate Dems, but there was some data issues so I just got all voter phone #'s for Ames, Iowas. (Probably 28k+ good #'s)... most are landlines.. some are cells.

Now THAT is useful information! OK, how about we let the campaign take Ames, and focus grassroots calling efforts elsewhere. If we are going to target by distance, Des Moines and West Des Moines are both about 50 miles away, so perhaps a good place to start.

http://www.areacode4all.com/united-states/us/ia/ames/npa-515/

Ames NPA-NXX ranges:
(515) 231 To (515) 233, (515) 239, (515) 268, (515) 290 To (515) 292, (515) 294, (515) 296, (515) 337, (515) 450 To (515) 451, (515) 460, (515) 509, (515) 520, (515) 572, (515) 598, (515) 663, (515) 708, (515) 817, (515) 956

Des Moines NPA-NXX is here:
http://www.areacode4all.com/united-states/us/ia/des-moines/

and West Des Moines is here:
http://www.areacode4all.com/united-states/us/ia/west-des-moines/

Other cities can be looked up on that site if it's desirable to be distance based.

If the campaign wants us to follow, they need to start leading and not playing catch up. I'd much rather see them do a few things well and leaving the rest to the grassroots, rather than trying to do everything and doing none of them well.

-t

[civusamericanus]

During the 2008 election I received calls starting in early 2007, that gave options to press a button for every candidate but Ron Paul. I also received independent calls supporting McCain, Huckabee, Romney, Thompson, Giuliani, Clinton, and Obama... My wife and I NEVER received any calls that mentioned Ron Paul. Hopefully, we don't see another presidential election season go by without any calls for “He who shall not be named”.

[sailingaway]

Thank you for pledging your support for Ron Paul 2012 in Iowa. We will be contacting you shortly with further details.
:)

However I am sorry to see them weeding out those without active voting history and hope they at least keep in those who only vote in generals, because Ron Paul attracts atypical voters.

[civusamericanus]

//

[brandon]

Seriously people, please stop calling and trying to run your own shadow campaign. It didn't work in 2008 and it's not going to work now.

[Kotin]

Seriously people, please stop calling and trying to run your own shadow campaign. It didn't work in 2008 and it's not going to work now.

Yup.. Look I get the mistrust from 2008 but THIS IS NOT 2008.

[tangent4ronpaul]

15 Largest Cities in Iowa and distance to Ames:

Des Moines is 45 mins
Cedar Rapids is 2 hrs
Davenport is 1.5 hrs
Sioux City is 3.5 hrs
Iowa City is 2.5 Hrs.
Waterloo is 2 hrs.
Council Bluffs is 3 hrs.
Dubuque is 3hrs.
West Des Moines is 1 hr.
Ankeny is 35 mins
Cedar Falls is 2hrs.
Urbandale is 1 hr.
Marion is 1.5 hrs.
Bettendorf is 3.5 hrs


Ankeny:
http://www.areacode4all.com/united-states/us/ia/ankeny/npa-515/

Urbandale:
http://www.areacode4all.com/united-states/us/ia/urbandale/

hmmm, so the campaign is just calling people in Ames... how is anyone going to find out about and use the bus program - you know from every county in Iowa... :confused:

Not like we have the time or manpower to call 1.5 Million households, unless it's a robocall.

-t

ps: +rep

[reduen]

In your blindness, you charge ahead, unaware of the destruction in your wake.

Your money doesn't give you the competence to run things. If you really wanted to help the cause, you would support the campaign instead of railing against it.

Can you even read? You seem to have quoted me and not even read the quote... Yeah, I want to take advice from a guy like you!!

[PaulConventionWV]

Silly me -- I thought actually reaching out to potential voters is helping Ron. I guess it only counts if it comes from a central authority. If the campaign wants us to follow their lead, how about they actually get out in front? Something tells me that if the entire campaign is run by a central authority it isn't going to turn out like you think it will. I have more faith in emergent and spontaneous order than I do central authorities. I also find your last sentence highly ironic on a libertarian forum....

Look it appears that the campaign wants non-Iowans to butt out of Iowa. We'll see how that turns out.

They're trying to get out in front and lead, but you won't let them. You think they are incompetent, and that is just making things that much more difficult for them.

[PaulConventionWV]

I think there's still some mistrust between the grassroots and the "official." Remember the Operation Spooner fiasco four years ago? People are chomping at the bit wanting to help in any way they can and we've already got the jump on our opponents unlike four years ago, but I understand the main campaign's fear that independent phonebanking operations will hurt them and there's evidence to show it has done so in the past.

There's no question the official campaign has done a much, much better job of communicating with the grassroots this time around and they have more of an organization structure in Iowa than they did four years ago. Out of respect, I think it would be wise to hold off on any more independent phone calling for the moment, especially since RP has the organizational lead in Iowa right now (hell, we didn't start calling Iowans until late July four years ago). But only for the moment. The official campaign has to realize if they don't get their system up and running soon, people are going to start to ignore them and go off on their own whether they like it or not because time is ticking away and other campaigns are gearing up and waiting around for the "central office" do something defeats the purpose of this whole enterprise . Needless to say we have a very independent bunch here and they're not going to sit on their thumbs for long waiting for "orders" that may or not come at all. It is in the "official's" best interests to display they have good, well-run organization in Iowa and across the country to keep people from working at cross-purposes with them.

Four years ago the grassroots could be so cavalier because there national campaign didn't have much of an organizational structure. We were the campaign for all intents and purposes. Now we have to learn to live with each other and work together to ensure our common goal.

+rep

[PaulConventionWV]

This is ridiculous. There's already a phone bank up and running, and the campaign needs to use it. There isn't anything wrong with making multiple calls to the same person... in the telemarketing industry that's called nurturing a lead.

It can be a problem if there are multiple calls to the same person that say the same thing and ask the same questions... that can anger the lead. Steve Bierfeldt needs to get in touch with the person that's running the grassroots phone bank, and then they can modify the phone script, give the official campaign the data they've acquired so far, and then move ahead making calls with the new phone script until the official campaign gets their phone bank up and running.

There's no reason to throw out the work that's been done so far. It's just going to take a volunteer a day or 2 to integrate the grassroots data into the official campaign data.

***I'm not a telemarketing guru, but my wife IS... I just get to hear about it every night after work. :D

Ever notice how everyone hates telemarketers? Yeah...

[PaulConventionWV]

Translation: With time short, we want you to stop using a working system and wait till we coagulate our fecal matter. WE ARE IN CONTROL! And you guys are making us look bad...



Now THAT is useful information! OK, how about we let the campaign take Ames, and focus grassroots calling efforts elsewhere. If we are going to target by distance, Des Moines and West Des Moines are both about 50 miles away, so perhaps a good place to start.

http://www.areacode4all.com/united-states/us/ia/ames/npa-515/

Ames NPA-NXX ranges:
(515) 231 To (515) 233, (515) 239, (515) 268, (515) 290 To (515) 292, (515) 294, (515) 296, (515) 337, (515) 450 To (515) 451, (515) 460, (515) 509, (515) 520, (515) 572, (515) 598, (515) 663, (515) 708, (515) 817, (515) 956

Des Moines NPA-NXX is here:
http://www.areacode4all.com/united-states/us/ia/des-moines/

and West Des Moines is here:
http://www.areacode4all.com/united-states/us/ia/west-des-moines/

Other cities can be looked up on that site if it's desirable to be distance based.

If the campaign wants us to follow, they need to start leading and not playing catch up. I'd much rather see them do a few things well and leaving the rest to the grassroots, rather than trying to do everything and doing none of them well.

-t

You are too rebellious. And that's coming from probably one of the most libertarian-minded people you'll ever meet. Your whole post is just insulting the campaign and making things worse. You are not making any good points, you are just dumping on the campaign's organization (which is there for a reason) and establishing your own hot-headed authority. That gets us absolutely nowhere. The system may be "good" but it is not going to help things later down the road. Please just stop the arguing and wait however long the campaign said to. If it goes longer than that, then I will concede to letting things devolve into a massive free-for-all.

[PaulConventionWV]

Can you even read? You seem to have quoted me and not even read the quote... Yeah, I want to take advice from a guy like you!!

What did you say that I misunderstood?

[UtahApocalypse]

Anyone that is opposed to working on this, at the direction of the CAMPAIGN...... If you are on my Facebook friends send me a message pleae.



I need to unfriend and block your incompetetant destructive hurting our message and chances arrogant ass immediately.

[reduen]

What did you say that I misunderstood?

I personally will wait to move on this type of stuff until I get the go ahead from the campaign. I was just stating the fact that I am very anxious to see that they really mean business this time. :)

Also, if you will look through this thread, you will see that I never said that I wasn't supporting the campaign or that I was making any calls right now. Jeremy grabbed one of my posts and drug me into the "the heck with the campaign crowd....

[reduen]

Anyone that is opposed to working on this, at the direction of the CAMPAIGN...... If you are on my Facebook friends send me a message pleae.



I need to unfriend and block your incompetetant destructive hurting our message and chances arrogant ass immediately.

If there is one thing that is true, it is that "us" fighting amoungst each other on this will accomplish nothing. Peace folks.....

[PaulConventionWV]

I personally will wait to move on this type of stuff until I get the go ahead from the campaign. I was just stating the fact that I am very anxious to see that they really mean business this time. :)

Also, if you will look through this thread, you will see that I never said that I wasn't supporting the campaign or that I was making any calls right now. Jeremy grabbed one of my posts and drug me into the "the heck with the campaign crowd....

Oh, sorry, then. I'm just a bit flustered right now. I've been working in the sun all day:cool:

Sometimes I can be a bit pushy and not read a post thoroughly before responding. I just really disagree with people who want to forge their own path without regard to any centralized plan, as if it were some absolute moral evil. There is a place for grassroots spontaneity, but we have to be careful when it comes to turning away potential voters and giving the Paul campaign a bad rep.

[steph3n]

right.

I'm sure the campaign will be able to call everyone on the registered Iowa GOP list.

How many campaigns have you worked on Jeremy? What are you doing right now for Ron Paul 2012?


I worked In NH with official phone banking, there were other non official phone efforts that royally pissed off even fervent supporters by having 7+ calls even after telling them all to NOT call anymore they already decided. Then calls kept coming, no doubt this LOST some votes.

[tangent4ronpaul]

You are too rebellious. And that's coming from probably one of the most libertarian-minded people you'll ever meet. Your whole post is just insulting the campaign and making things worse. You are not making any good points, you are just dumping on the campaign's organization (which is there for a reason) and establishing your own hot-headed authority. That gets us absolutely nowhere. The system may be "good" but it is not going to help things later down the road. Please just stop the arguing and wait however long the campaign said to. If it goes longer than that, then I will concede to letting things devolve into a massive free-for-all.

If the campaign wants us to follow, they need to start leading and not playing catch up. I'd much rather see them do a few things well and leaving the rest to the grassroots, rather than trying to do everything and doing none of them well.

FAIL!

-t

[Legend1104]

I guess this is the problem with running a campaign full of anarcists, libertarians, and others in that camp.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Oh, sorry, then. I'm just a bit flustered right now. I've been working in the sun all day:cool:

Sometimes I can be a bit pushy and not read a post thoroughly before responding. I just really disagree with people who want to forge their own path without regard to any centralized plan, as if it were some absolute moral evil. There is a place for grassroots spontaneity, but we have to be careful when it comes to turning away potential voters and giving the Paul campaign a bad rep.

Population of Iowa = 3 Million plus.... Yeah, some people might get 2 calls.... oooohhhh too bad!

We have something working NOW! - the campaign does not!

"centralized plan"???? We can't legally do that! If we know they are focusing on calls to Aims through disclosed info, we can adapt and focus on not Ames. That is helpful. So say stop all your calling if it's not under our thumb, is not.

Seems like about half the people posting about this get it and the other half do not.

We got burned by the campaign last time and are a bit shy this time. Can you say baaaaa....? When the same BS starts popping up, and you nullify it - that gives pause. We are not going to put up with this again. If they want to "lead" then they should LEAD! I have not seen this yet.

Lead, follow or get out of the way. You seem to want to follow a program that does not have anything in place. Why?

RPH offered up an interesting suggestion in another thread - they take republicans and we take everyone else. With a tiny bit of knowledge that they could have posted on their web site, we found out that their calling program seems to be limited to Ames - without any official communication between the officail campaign, we can tell where additional effort is needed.

What is your malfunction? They are not doing this - We need to!

There can not LEGALLY be any centralized "plan!"

-t

[steph3n]

There can not LEGALLY be any centralized "plan!"

-t

yes, if you call the lists that the official campaign has, you will be on a centralized plan and call list.

[The Moravian]

I've phone banked for 4 different campaigns and also worked at a call center conducting voter surveys, in addition to running my own campaign for the legislature last year. Voters were incredibly annoyed if they were called repeatedly by the same campaign even if they pledged their support already. However, because there are often unaffiliated organizations calling to promote candidates or measures, it is possible to work independent of the campaign without annoying voters if you identify yourself as being clearly unaffiliated with the official campaign.

If you need to, make up an organizational name or just make it clear that you are calling on behalf of yourself, a sovereign individual, so they won't have any reason to think that "the Ron Paul campaign just keeps bothering me. Why can't they get their act together and check my name off as called already!", etc.

I hope that this will help us work out the unavoidable tension of being committed to principles of individual liberty but needing to work toward a common goal of winning this election.

For Liberty.

[freshjiva]

This entire thread makes me sad. We're all in the same camp, guys!

Do what you think is right in helping spread the Liberty message and of Ron Paul 2012, but also know that we're all striving towards the same goal! If someone approaches you and requests you to do something differently because of XYZ reasons, please, be reasonable and consider taking the advice!

No need for hostilities, folks! We all want to see Ron Paul win, so let's listen to each other and amplify our efforts.

[civusamericanus]

Population of Iowa = 3 Million plus.... Yeah, some people might get 2 calls.... oooohhhh too bad!

We have something working NOW! - the campaign does not!

"centralized plan"???? We can't legally do that! If we know they are focusing on calls to Aims through disclosed info, we can adapt and focus on not Ames. That is helpful. So say stop all your calling if it's not under our thumb, is not.

Seems like about half the people posting about this get it and the other half do not.

We got burned by the campaign last time and are a bit shy this time. Can you say baaaaa....? When the same BS starts popping up, and you nullify it - that gives pause. We are not going to put up with this again. If they want to "lead" then they should LEAD! I have not seen this yet.

Lead, follow or get out of the way. You seem to want to follow a program that does not have anything in place. Why?

RPH offered up an interesting suggestion in another thread - they take republicans and we take everyone else. With a tiny bit of knowledge that they could have posted on their web site, we found out that their calling program seems to be limited to Ames - without any official communication between the officail campaign, we can tell where additional effort is needed.

What is your malfunction? They are not doing this - We need to!

There can not LEGALLY be any centralized "plan!"

-t
It's no great secret on who, where, why, and when presidential campaigns are calling, but we sure as hell better get started! Barack Obama has already started phone banking nationally, it's no great secret, check the following thread look at what they're doing, their campaign has spelled out their strategy clear as day.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?295120-Barack-Obama-Phone-Banking-has-started-nationally

[Sentinelrv]

Why doesn't the campaign put some details up on their volunteer page then? They need to put something up that helps drive people to join up. All it says right now is to join up and receive updates. They should put some more information up to convince people to join up.

[trey4sports]

Why doesn't the campaign put some details up on their volunteer page then? They need to put something up that helps drive people to join up. All it says right now is to join up and receive updates. They should put some more information up to convince people to join up.

i don't think the campaign wants out-of-staters to have anything to do with Iowa. I don't mean that in a hateful way toward the campaign, but that has been the indication they have given off.

[parocks]

Follow the Campaign's instructions.

[The Dark Knight]

Here is an idea: instead of the grassroots calling Iowa, have them call New Hampshire and Nevada. Leave Iowa to the campaign until they ask for help.

[tobefree]

I understand why people would want to wait for the campaign, but that is going to be the problem. By the time people realize what's going on it's going to be too late.. The entire campaign will effectively be over and done with. Ames is do or die.

The campaign should not be interfering with the grassroots. If we run a parallel effort with the campaign there might be some overlap, but nothing significant. It's the nature of campaigns to be protective, even at the expense of succeeding. It's all politics.. People will always want to look good even if the results are terrible. If the campaign comes out with a platform then that is great and I encourage people to use it and call those lists.

Calling pissed off voters are part of any calling program.... I've made over five thousand calls in my short political career and will state that you can never call too much.. It is always the case you don't call enough people.. for every one you call that gets pissed there are ten that don't get called enough. Getting a call from a grassroots volunteer not affiliated with the campaign is much more powerful than being an unpaid volunteer WITH the campaign. It's the most authentic call.

No candidate has the volunteer base to do mass personal calls like we can... that's why we have a huge competitive advantage...

People get pissed because they'll get 10 robocalls from Bachmann, Romney, Pawlenty & Cain... voters don't even know who's calling after a while and will be pissed because they think you were responsible for the last 10 robocalls.

Note: I do think it is good to coordinate impersonal robocalls on the grassroots side because the hit rate will be lower and the competitive advantage low. You also need a short script.

I was there with OLFD in New Hampshire in 07/08 and saw the entire operations... Almost every aspect of the campaign was dysfunctional... I looked at all the precinct packets the campaign had and it amounted to probably several thousand for all of the southern half of NH.. no way you could have even put a dent in the race with those numbers. I was a political newbie back then and still figured out the whole operations was a failure. Is this time different? Are you going to wait to find out?

People can choose to do what they want. The official campaign will say we are hurting the campaign. I and others would say the official campaign is killing the campaign. I say live and let live. Volunteers can choose to be part of one or both.

Anyways, thanks everyone for your thoughts... I will proceed forward and try to pick up the pace.. no time to waste.
Ames Straw Poll: 80 days and counting.

Oh and last thing everyone.. who do you believe in? ..the government? ...some outside authority? ... someone in some official capacity?... or do you believe in YOU?

[parocks]

hyping Ron Paul on the internet is good grassroots. Let the campaign worry about direct voter outreach. I would agree that it would be best to stop independent phone calling. Last time around they weren't able to manage or handle the number of volunteers. In NH, there were people there who were working for Ron Paul, and had little to do with the official campaign. I would hope that this time around the system can handle and manage as many volunteers as possible. The campaigns facebook gave a link to ronpaulpolls.com

[TheTyke]

The campaign has people who were involved in Rand's victory in Kentucky... Steve is one of them. We definitely need to follow their lead on this one, they know how to win elections. There is a plan and a message - let's stick to it.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Both sides are right. It should be left to the campaign. Sadly, the campaign showed us how utterly inept it was last time, and it has to earn some serious cred before we take them seriously.

[ForLibertyFight]

Until the official campaign comes out with their own phone banking system, I will continue to make calls on rp2012.org

We can't waste any time. We need to concentrate all efforts in Iowa and so far, this is the best way to reach Iowans.

Our #1 priority is to win the Ames Straw Poll and this will not happen unless we reach out to every single Iowan voters.

BTW - If anyone from the official campaign reads this, we, the grassroots are waiting for you guys to do SOMETHING.

[centure7]

Question: How many different grassroots phone banks are calling to Iowa at the moment?

If just one phone bank, then send a list of the numbers called and a summary of each call to the campaign for review. How could that possibly be illegal? I don't get the problem.

[ForLibertyFight]

Question: How many different grassroots phone banks are calling to Iowa at the moment?

If just one phone bank, then send a list of the numbers called and a summary of each call to the campaign for review. How could that possibly be illegal? I don't get the problem.

There is just ONLY ONE grassroots phone bank making calls to Iowa.
People are vehemently opposing this because why...? The official campaign told them it doesn't fit their plan.

Until I see what this centralized "plan" is and I see it being implemented, I will not let them tell me not to campaign for Paul in Iowa.

Every calls that are made on rp2012.org is recorded by the volunteer and saved in the system. If the official campaign wanted the summary of each call, I'm sure that they will receive the information.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

There is just ONLY ONE grassroots phone bank making calls to Iowa.
People are vehemently opposing this because why...? The official campaign told them it doesn't fit their plan.

Until I see what this centralized "plan" is and I see it being implemented, I will not let them tell me not to campaign for Paul in Iowa.

Every calls that are made on rp2012.org is recorded by the volunteer and saved in the system. If the official campaign wanted the summary of each call, I'm sure that they will receive the information.

that would be illegal.

[tsai3904]

Has anyone compared Ron Paul's campaign website to the other candidates? The other candidates' websites are very well done and contain a lot of information. I figure a website would be priority number one especially if we are trying to reach voters who haven't heard of RP. It's sad how we have to direct people to grassroots websites or tell them to "Google Ron Paul" to learn about him instead of directing people to the official campaign website.

Check out the Calendar of Events (http://www.ronpaul2012.com/category/events/). It's basically a blank calendar even though Ron has attended many events recently.

Based on the website alone, the campaign does not seem well organized.

[ForLibertyFight]

Has anyone compared Ron Paul's campaign website to the other candidates? The other candidates' websites are very well done and contain a lot of information. I figure a website would be priority number one especially if we are trying to reach voters who haven't heard of RP. It's sad how we have to direct people to grassroots websites or tell them to "Google Ron Paul" to learn about him instead of directing people to the official campaign website.

Check out the Calendar of Events (http://www.ronpaul2012.com/category/events/). It's basically a blank calendar even though Ron has attended many events recently.

Based on the website alone, the campaign does not seem well organized.

I completely agree. I don't see this as a good sign.

Look, I may be completely wrong.

After all, I'm not directly involved with the campaign and they may be doing a fantastic job behind the scenes but if they can't even update the official campaign page or add an issues page to the site, why should I believe that they are committed to winning this time around or even listen to them telling me NOT to make calls to Iowans?

These simple things may not seem like a big deal but they matter.

I really hope that they update the official site and get the "issues" page up ASAP and unveiling their "plan" for phone banking before telling the grassroots to stop would be better.

[centure7]

that would be illegal.

1. What would be illegal?
2. Under what law?

The previous message just said they would "receive the information". The campaign cannot control what information is sent to them in the mail. If it illegal to merely receive information, you could send a similar list to Ron Paul's competitors and then have them arrested, fined, or whatever punishment it is, for receiving information they shouldn't have received. So, what you're saying doesn't make sense to me at all. Please clarify much more.

[nayjevin]

Phonebanking is well delegated to the campaign. It's a strength of traditional campaigning already. Grassroots should pick up where official campaign leaves off.

If it goes along with what a campaign usually does, let's leave it to them and encourage volunteers to help. Then in the grassroots individuals diversify.


Has anyone compared Ron Paul's campaign website to the other candidates? The other candidates' websites are very well done and contain a lot of information. I figure a website would be priority number one especially if we are trying to reach voters who haven't heard of RP. It's sad how we have to direct people to grassroots websites or tell them to "Google Ron Paul" to learn about him instead of directing people to the official campaign website.

Check out the Calendar of Events (http://www.ronpaul2012.com/category/events/). It's basically a blank calendar even though Ron has attended many events recently.

Based on the website alone, the campaign does not seem well organized.

The way I see it that's up to us.and existing sources like http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul.

[Sentinelrv]

I completely agree. I don't see this as a good sign.

Look, I may be completely wrong.

After all, I'm not directly involved with the campaign and they may be doing a fantastic job behind the scenes but if they can't even update the official campaign page or add an issues page to the site, why should I believe that they are committed to winning this time around or even listen to them telling me NOT to make calls to Iowans?

These simple things may not seem like a big deal but they matter.

I really hope that they update the official site and get the "issues" page up ASAP and unveiling their "plan" for phone banking before telling the grassroots to stop would be better.

I agree. Besides some news of an endorsement, organizing 100 Iowa volunteers and word of a phonebanking system on its way, there are many signs to me that this campaign is not taking things seriously. I would think that all of those involved in running the 2012 campaign would know that the grassroots hated the campaign in 2008. This should be common knowledge to them, and so they should have made a true effort to reach out to us to make us feel secure that this time would be different. Judging by everything I've seen so far, this is not the case.

Their Iowa volunteer page could have had detailed information on it, letting people that signed up know that phonebanking was coming soon, as well as any other grassroots projects that might be in the works. This would have assured us that Iowa was seriously being taken care of. But instead, the page is generic "Please sign up for updates" and from reports of people who did sign up, not one update from the campaign has been sent yet. This gives the grassroots the perception that the campaign isn't doing anything productive, while they very well could be doing many important things. They've had very little communication with us. The communication they do have is usually one post and no follow-up to answer questions. Also, like you said here, the official campaign website is empty of all the important information and features and no indication has been given from them whether it's even being worked on. For all we know, they could end up leaving the site the way it is, a generic blank slate.

I'm not attacking the campaign's efforts in Iowa, because I don't know what they are doing. What I'm attacking is the unorganized "appearance" the campaign is giving off to the grassroots. The appearance they're giving off is making everybody here nervous, driving people to jump the gun and start phonebanking without them. They aren't doing their job to instill confidence in the grassroots of their capability in handling this. They need to work on their way of presenting themselves and communicating with us.

[tsai3904]

The main problem I have with the website is that it's a one and done deal. You hire a web developer and after the layout is chosen and all the information has been posted, it's done. The only maintenance would be to update news and events.

I can't possibly think of a reason why this isn't priority number one since it doesn't take much effort to hire a developer who then spends his time developing many options for the campaign to choose.

In the Fox News interview today, the host asked Ron where viewers can find more information about him and Ron said, "ronpaul2012.com". I hope those viewers are curious enough to do more research after they visit the campaign website.

[Sentinelrv]

How do we get a confirmation from them on whether the site is going to be worked on?

[nayjevin]

What I'm attacking is the unorganized "appearance" the campaign is giving off to the grassroots. The appearance they're giving off is making everybody here nervous, driving people to jump the gun and start phonebanking without them.

I don't see that, I see signs the campaign is better organized than last time, and well organized in general. These big projects keep springing up just prior to the campaign announcing they will handle it, on things they would be expected to handle in the first place, like canvassing and phonebanking and busing.

The criticism of the campaign is way premature. Events are rolling out in good timing, the plan's been solid for quite some time. Ron keeps getting news and media. Expect a well done traditional campaign. And pick up where that leaves off, considering what worked and didn't work in 2007/08. Be skeptical of big projects, resist the temptation to head a huge thing without consideration from people who've been at it a while.


The main problem I have with the website is that it's a one and done deal. You hire a web developer and after the layout is chosen and all the information has been posted, it's done. The only maintenance would be to update news and events.

I can't possibly think of a reason why this isn't priority number one since it doesn't take much effort to hire a developer who then spends his time developing many options for the campaign to choose.

In the Fox News interview today, the host asked Ron where viewers can find more information about him and Ron said, "ronpaul2012.com". I hope those viewers are curious enough to do more research after they visit the campaign website.

To me it' could be trusting the market/grassroots to get the job done. People know how to google. I expect more over time, but presently there's no evidence that would lead me to believe we won't see that.

[PaulConventionWV]

If the campaign wants us to follow, they need to start leading and not playing catch up. I'd much rather see them do a few things well and leaving the rest to the grassroots, rather than trying to do everything and doing none of them well.

FAIL!

-t

And what do you think they are trying to do by setting up a phone bank, but you, not realizing the task at hand, assume they are incompetent while not knowing anything about the procedure.

[rp08orbust]

Why don't those eager to phonebank focus on an area we know the Ron Paul campaign is neglecting, such as the Florida Presidency 5 straw poll? I know the Ames straw poll is more important, but the Presidency 5 straw poll is very important too, and it is more urgent. See http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?294454-Winning-Florida-s-Presidency-5-Straw-Poll As soon as we get the Florida voter database, we will begin robopolling in Florida to identify Ron Paul supporters and direct them to applying to be delegates at Presidency 5. There will be plenty of opportunity for follow-up phonebanking among identified Ron Paul supporters.

[Thomas]

I think the grassroots phonebank should be banned from the board. It's in direct conflict with the campaign.

[ItsTime]

You would have to be pretty stupid to keep phone banking with then campaign asked you to stop.

[civusamericanus]

I think the grassroots phonebank should be banned from the board. It's in direct conflict with the campaign.
Really, these guys are some of the biggest advocates for Ron Paul, they've spent months of their lives planning and thousands of their own money, to help promote Ron Paul and Liberty, and you want to ban them? If the Ron Paul Official Campaign would simply publicly disclose their plan on who, where, and when they plan to contact people by phone, the grassroots can adjust their plans to contact a different segment of voters. But this discussion has been going on nearly a month, and while we're arguing about it, Obama's National Campaign has already started making phonebanking calls in nearly every major metropolitan city, and they have clearly stated who, where, and when they are contacting these voters. Anyone who has ever worked in a campaign, let alone a national one knows it's not whether they made too many calls, it's ALWAYS they haven't made enough calls.

I live near a major metropolitan area, and did not receive a single call during the 2008 election that mentioned Ron Paul, I did however receive calls with every candidate besides Ron Paul, in addition to polling which did not include Ron Paul among the candidates. Bottom line, the campaign needs to be VERY clear about their Phone banking plans, in Iowa and Nationally. If Ron Paul doesn't place high in Iowa, let alone win the strawpoll, as stated by the organizer of the grassroots Phone Bank "By the time people realize what's going on it's going to be too late.. The entire campaign will effectively be over and done with. Ames is do or die.".

Bottom line, the official campaign needs to publicly (On the official website) provide a phonebanking plan for Ames and Nationally, then grassroots can more effectively contact the segments of voters who are not being contacted. It's not some big secret, as I've stated before, Obama's camapign has already started making phonebank calls nationally, and their plans are publicly disclosed on their website. Please refer to the following post http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?295120-Barack-Obama-Phone-Banking-has-started-nationally.

[trey4sports]

Question: How many different grassroots phone banks are calling to Iowa at the moment?

If just one phone bank, then send a list of the numbers called and a summary of each call to the campaign for review. How could that possibly be illegal? I don't get the problem.

It is illegal. Any kind of coordination, and data sharing violates FEC law. Its shit i know, but we have to abide by the FEC rules.

[Laura Cole]

Why don't those eager to phonebank focus on an area we know the Ron Paul campaign is neglecting, such as the Florida Presidency 5 straw poll? I know the Ames straw poll is more important, but the Presidency 5 straw poll is very important too, and it is more urgent. See http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?294454-Winning-Florida-s-Presidency-5-Straw-Poll As soon as we get the Florida voter database, we will begin robopolling in Florida to identify Ron Paul supporters and direct them to applying to be delegates at Presidency 5. There will be plenty of opportunity for follow-up phonebanking among identified Ron Paul supporters.

This is a good idea, in my opinion. I signed up with the rp2012.org phone bank and would be more than happy to start calling another state. The tech for the phone banking system is especially cool. Whoever put that site together went pro all the way. Super cool. It would be silly to let that system lay fallow.

We probably have to let the campaign lead, though.

[rp08orbust]

This is a good idea, in my opinion. I signed up with the rp2012.org phone bank and would be more than happy to start calling another state. The tech for the phone banking system is especially cool. Whoever put that site together went pro all the way. Super cool. It would be silly to let that system lay fallow.

We're not ready to phonebank in Florida quite yet, but if you want to help the Presidency 5 cause right now, see http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?294613-County-Caucus-Times-and-Locations

[UtahApocalypse]

I think the grassroots phonebank should be banned from the board. It's in direct conflict with the campaign.


You would have to be pretty stupid to keep phone banking with then campaign asked you to stop.

You both deserve the +Rep If I had any left to give.

[civusamericanus]

This is a good idea, in my opinion. I signed up with the rp2012.org phone bank and would be more than happy to start calling another state. The tech for the phone banking system is especially cool. Whoever put that site together went pro all the way. Super cool. It would be silly to let that system lay fallow.
It's the same system the WI Gov. Scott Walker used, they actually had a direct login from their official campaign website. If we want to win this election, we're going to need something like this on the RP official website.

[happyphilter]

While I agree that we need to stop doing our own phone banks, I also think the campaign needs to take steps to direct RP supporters. How hard is it to send out a statement and have people sign up for a single phone bank? I don't think anyone here would be in disagreement...

[reduen]

I've phone banked for 4 different campaigns and also worked at a call center conducting voter surveys, in addition to running my own campaign for the legislature last year. Voters were incredibly annoyed if they were called repeatedly by the same campaign even if they pledged their support already. However, because there are often unaffiliated organizations calling to promote candidates or measures, it is possible to work independent of the campaign without annoying voters if you identify yourself as being clearly unaffiliated with the official campaign.

If you need to, make up an organizational name or just make it clear that you are calling on behalf of yourself, a sovereign individual, so they won't have any reason to think that "the Ron Paul campaign just keeps bothering me. Why can't they get their act together and check my name off as called already!", etc.

I hope that this will help us work out the unavoidable tension of being committed to principles of individual liberty but needing to work toward a common goal of winning this election.

For Liberty.

+++++++ Great suggestion!!

[reduen]

Here is an idea: instead of the grassroots calling Iowa, have them call New Hampshire and Nevada. Leave Iowa to the campaign until they ask for help.

Another great suggestion. Doing this, we could then judge the campaigns efforts by their results in Iowa...

[tangent4ronpaul]

While I agree that we need to stop doing our own phone banks, I also think the campaign needs to take steps to direct RP supporters. How hard is it to send out a statement and have people sign up for a single phone bank? I don't think anyone here would be in disagreement...

Last campaign, we had something like 15 separate phone bank projects working on different parts of the country. That wasn't enough. I don't recall the official campaign doing any.

C4L has done one, to the best of my knowledge. They contracted the work out and didn't use volunteers. Expensive... The current campaign is apparently hiring lots of C4L staffers... The campaigns phone bank is vaporware and they have hired someone to massage the data. This person or firm is having problems separating out rows by political affiliation. Not encouraging. They are apparently focusing on one city in one state. Meanwhile, Obama is doing phone banking in every major city in the country.

The grassroots was able to pull together a working phonebank fast. We are still waiting on the campaign to get something working.

We need lots of phonebanks! Ideally one in every state in the nation. We need to share technical information and resources on the different ways to do this, and there are several different ways.

The absolute worst thing we could do is stopping phonebanking!

-t

[IDefendThePlatform]

There has got to be a way to coordinate the grassroots and campaign phone banks. Can't the grassroots phonebank people just sell the info they collect to the campaign? Then its all legal, right?

[civusamericanus]

Originally Posted by The Moravian
I've phone banked for 4 different campaigns and also worked at a call center conducting voter surveys, in addition to running my own campaign for the legislature last year. Voters were incredibly annoyed if they were called repeatedly by the same campaign even if they pledged their support already. However, because there are often unaffiliated organizations calling to promote candidates or measures, it is possible to work independent of the campaign without annoying voters if you identify yourself as being clearly unaffiliated with the official campaign.

If you need to, make up an organizational name or just make it clear that you are calling on behalf of yourself, a sovereign individual, so they won't have any reason to think that "the Ron Paul campaign just keeps bothering me. Why can't they get their act together and check my name off as called already!", etc.

I hope that this will help us work out the unavoidable tension of being committed to principles of individual liberty but needing to work toward a common goal of winning this election.

For Liberty.

^^ This is exactly what the organizer of rp2012.org has done. Nearly every candidate in every election has independent 527's, working outside the official campaign. Making calls, and doing things the campaign is not addressing.

The 527's are there to help, and can often do things the official campaign cannot. Supporters involved in 527's often set a fire under the official campaigns ass, to get them moving, so the 527's can figure out precisely what area's the campaign is not covering, and then address those areas.

How many 527 non affiliated organizations will be working for Romney or Obama? 100's if not thousands are likely!

Please re-read what tobefree is saying below, he is the coordinator of the ONE AND ONLY PhoneBank being proposed for Iowa. The website RP2012.org is a great tool, and can fill in holes across the country that the Official Campaign does not address!


I understand why people would want to wait for the campaign, but that is going to be the problem. By the time people realize what's going on it's going to be too late.. The entire campaign will effectively be over and done with. Ames is do or die.

The campaign should not be interfering with the grassroots. If we run a parallel effort with the campaign there might be some overlap, but nothing significant. It's the nature of campaigns to be protective, even at the expense of succeeding. It's all politics.. People will always want to look good even if the results are terrible. If the campaign comes out with a platform then that is great and I encourage people to use it and call those lists.

Calling pissed off voters are part of any calling program.... I've made over five thousand calls in my short political career and will state that you can never call too much.. It is always the case you don't call enough people.. for every one you call that gets pissed there are ten that don't get called enough. Getting a call from a grassroots volunteer not affiliated with the campaign is much more powerful than being an unpaid volunteer WITH the campaign. It's the most authentic call.

No candidate has the volunteer base to do mass personal calls like we can... that's why we have a huge competitive advantage...

People get pissed because they'll get 10 robocalls from Bachmann, Romney, Pawlenty & Cain... voters don't even know who's calling after a while and will be pissed because they think you were responsible for the last 10 robocalls.

Note: I do think it is good to coordinate impersonal robocalls on the grassroots side because the hit rate will be lower and the competitive advantage low. You also need a short script.

I was there with OLFD in New Hampshire in 07/08 and saw the entire operations... Almost every aspect of the campaign was dysfunctional... I looked at all the precinct packets the campaign had and it amounted to probably several thousand for all of the southern half of NH.. no way you could have even put a dent in the race with those numbers. I was a political newbie back then and still figured out the whole operations was a failure. Is this time different? Are you going to wait to find out?

People can choose to do what they want. The official campaign will say we are hurting the campaign. I and others would say the official campaign is killing the campaign. I say live and let live. Volunteers can choose to be part of one or both.

Anyways, thanks everyone for your thoughts... I will proceed forward and try to pick up the pace.. no time to waste.
Ames Straw Poll: 80 days and counting.

Oh and last thing everyone.. who do you believe in? ..the government? ...some outside authority? ... someone in some official capacity?... or do you believe in YOU?

[civusamericanus]

There has got to be a way to coordinate the grassroots and campaign phone banks. Can't the grassroots phonebank people just sell the info they collect to the campaign? Then its all legal, right?
Yes if the official Ron Paul campaign publicly publishes their strategy for phonebanking on there official website. It's no great secret, Obama and every single candidate, will do the same. Then the Grassroots independent organizations know which holes to fill. This is not rocket science, but it has been like the brush fire's getting dirt thrown on it, instead of rocket fuel.

[Narmical]

Hey Jeremy,

I actually believe the best way to get everyone on the same page and ensure the most success for Ron Paul is not to have different people making calls. Specifically because we are setting up a system to have grassroots supporters be able to call Iowa residents. The problem with all of these different phone plans is that it really messes up the data, calls the wrong people several times, and does hurt the percentage for Ron Paul.

It's much better if things can be coordinated and we can target the people who we know support Ron Paul. So any way you can help with this would be very much appreciated. I really want to push people who want to make calls to the IowaForRonPaul.com website and then have them sign up as wanting to get involved.

- Steve


I'm going to take issue with the way this message is worded. I think that this whole controversy is strictly over the wording of this message. The tone of this message come of as very authoritarian to me and others have pointed that out on this thread as well. People who are willing to get active for a message of liberty are very likely to be anti-authoritarian. If they weren't they would accept the status quo. The best way to reach these people is not as an authority telling people what to do, but rather as an equal sharing information and asking for collaboration.

I think the message would have gotten a more positive response on this board if it was worded thusly:

------------------

Dear Grassroots Ron Paul Supporters,

I am writing to thank you all for your wonderful efforts in support of Ron Paul this election cycle. The support that you give him is key to his success. I am particularly awed by your ability to get a very sophisticated phone banking system up and running so quickly to try and win support at Ames. I bring this up because we at the official campaign are in the processes of setting up our own phone bank for Ames. I would very much like to coordinate our efforts. We are of the opinion that calling the same person more than once is not only a waste of resources but also has the potential to turn likely voters off due to annoyance. We wish to reduce this chance by making it known who we are targeting with our calling.

Our call center will target voter group X and that your target voter group Y. It is very important to us that we reach out to this group because of data collection / sharing issue Y imposed by the FEC and we place a high value on that information.

If anyone wishes to volunteer to work our call-center please sign up here.

I think this arrangement will both get the official campaign the data it needs as well as assure our best chances of winning the Ames straw poll.

Ron Paul For the Win,
Official Campaign Guy
----------------------------------------------

See the huge difference?

[Jeremy]

I'm going to take issue with the way this message is worded. I think that this whole controversy is strictly over the wording of this message. The tone of this message come of as very authoritarian to me and others have pointed that out on this thread as well. People who are willing to get active for a message of liberty are very likely to be anti-authoritarian. If they weren't they would accept the status quo. The best way to reach these people is not as an authority telling people what to do, but rather as an equal sharing information and asking for collaboration.

I think the message would have gotten a more positive response on this board if it was worded thusly:

------------------

Dear Grassroots Ron Paul Supporters,

I am writing to thank you all for your wonderful efforts in support of Ron Paul this election cycle. The support that you give him is key to his success. I am particularly awed by your ability to get a very sophisticated phone banking system up and running so quickly to try and win support at Ames. I bring this up because we at the official campaign are in the processes of setting up our own phone bank for Ames. I would very much like to coordinate our efforts. We are of the opinion that calling the same person more than once is not only a waste of resources but also has the potential to turn likely voters off due to annoyance. We wish to reduce this chance by making it known who we are targeting with our calling.

Our call center will target voter group X and that your target voter group Y. It is very important to us that we reach out to this group because of data collection / sharing issue Y imposed by the FEC and we place a high value on that information.

If anyone wishes to volunteer to work our call-center please sign up here.

I think this arrangement will both get the official campaign the data it needs as well as assure our best chances of winning the Ames straw poll.

Ron Paul For the Win,
Official Campaign Guy
----------------------------------------------

See the huge difference?

Not at all. I asked him a question and he answered it. As you can see, the email was to me. It wasn't a statement to the entire grassroots.

[Narmical]

Ah i see, i misunderstood the situation. I thought he initiated the email to you.

I stand by my view of how the information could have been better presented.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I would very much like to coordinate our efforts. We are of the opinion that calling the same person more than once is not only a waste of resources but also has the potential to turn likely voters off due to annoyance. We wish to reduce this chance by making it known who we are targeting with our calling.

Our call center will target voter group X and that your target voter group Y.

ILLEGAL!

But if they posted who and where they were calling, we could figure out where they were not and work on that. If they eventually want our data, we would have to figure out how to legally get it to them during the campaign, or just give it to them afterwords. Their posting their data format here would help. They are also presumably wanting this data for GOTV activities. If they do Ames and we did Des Moines, we could each take care of those areas we had data for.

Considering how short of funds they supposedly are, this might be a good area to leave to the grassroots completely so they can focus on fewer other things and do them well.

-t

[jmdrake]

And so it begins. The incessant cat herding and tripping all over ourselves that is the grassroots. Here's an idea. The campaign should move away from human calls altogether and go for robocalls or at the very least human + robocalls. Robocalls should be used for people who are already Ron Paul supporters to alert them to specific actions such as RP speaking engagements our actually showing up to vote. (Really, what Ron Paul supporter would mind a voice message from Ron Paul reminding them to get out and vote?) For cold calls, Robocalls should be used for the initial screening and have a human operator pick up to seal the deal. I get these all the time from other candidates. Something like:

"This is the Restore the Constitution Campaign with a short pool for small government conservatives and Tea Party Patriots.

1) Do you think that federal spending levels are too high?
2) Do you think Obama's current foreign policy which includes aid to groups linked to Al Qaeda makes sense?
3) Do you think the federal government should be able to spy on you or check your gun records without at least judicial approval?
4) Do you think the federal government should interfere with the private market through bailouts for big corporations and excessive regulation for small business?"
...."

If the answer to those questions are "yes - no - yes - no" then put that voter through to a Ron Paul cold caller. If they aren't then don't waste with that voter.

[tsai3904]

Steve did post this message to the grassroots on 5/14:


Hey all, I'd suggest not running a separate effort to get lists and make phone calls from out of staters. The campaign has a platform in place to utilize volunteers and make calls. Though it is vitally important we not be duplicating efforts and confusing lists or mixing up calls to the same people. Too many calls not done in the consistent format tends to alienate people. I'd go to the Iowa Ron Paul site and getting yourself plugged in. The campaign will absolutely get involved and we'll all be on the same page.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?292878-Making-effective-phone-calls-for-Ron-Paul-%28coaching-brainstorming-thread%29&p=3275592#post3275592

[jmdrake]

ILLEGAL!

But if they posted who and where they were calling, we could figure out where they were not and work on that. If they eventually want our data, we would have to figure out how to legally get it to them during the campaign, or just give it to them afterwords. Their posting their data format here would help. They are also presumably wanting this data for GOTV activities. If they do Ames and we did Des Moines, we could each take care of those areas we had data for.

Considering how short of funds they supposedly are, this might be a good area to leave to the grassroots completely so they can focus on fewer other things and do them well.

-t

No it's not. You have not studied election law and you don't know what you are talking about. It's illegal for the campaign to coordinate with PACs about issue advertisement. Actually that's not illegal either, but if its done it counts as an in kind contribution and may violate contribution limits. But it is not illegal for a campaign to coordinate with volunteers. And when you volunteer your time that is not considered a financial contribution.

[Kludge]

Can't the unofficial phone bank just turn over their list of #s called when the campaign has their system up, then have the campaign remove all called numbers?

[tangent4ronpaul]

The call bank isn't a PAC? I thought they were spending something like 4cents per call. As soon as money gets involved, all sorts of FEC BS kicks in.

[Eric21ND]

Give the campaign a chance to launch a phonebanking volunteer operation. Hopefully something like the Schiff campaign ran. If you absolutely have to call, then call South Carolina, or another early state.

[John of Des Moines]

I'm not going to read through and digest an eleven page thread but here's my 2 cents worth.

Don't run an independent phone banking into Iowa. No matter what you may think IT DOES PISS PEOPLE OFF. Those individuals living outside of Iowa making the phone calls do not suffer the blowback at the local Republican meetings - Iowa supporters of Ron Paul do.

If your finger is itchy to call Iowa one of two options are possible

First, call Democrats looking for the anti-war people would might straw poll or caucus for Paul.

Second, why call on the behalf of Ron Paul? Calling on the behalf on another candidate discussing the qualities of the other candidate[s] such as working the head the Kansas City Federal Reserve, or pardoning some guy on sex charges, or being a former IRS attorney. I think you get the idea. Getting a half a dozen calls remaining people of a candidate's past history can work wonders.

[Thargok]

ILLEGAL!

But if they posted who and where they were calling, we could figure out where they were not and work on that. If they eventually want our data, we would have to figure out how to legally get it to them during the campaign, or just give it to them afterwords. Their posting their data format here would help. They are also presumably wanting this data for GOTV activities. If they do Ames and we did Des Moines, we could each take care of those areas we had data for.

Considering how short of funds they supposedly are, this might be a good area to leave to the grassroots completely so they can focus on fewer other things and do them well.

-t

It's obvious you don't have experience in this field, but that is fine you came up with an interesting proposal. The problem is that you are trying to ID voters in order to contact them and make sure they participate in the straw poll, on the day of it. The campaign has the job of winning said straw poll and so therefore would be incompetent to trust an independent party to do it correctly (they are trying to win, and they do know how) they cannot collude so they simply have to take care of all of it themselves.

[tangent4ronpaul]

What I know is what I learned from RP's '08 staff and one of his former Congressional office staffers. What makes you such an expert? Can either of you that are saying I'm wrong cite the law?

[Thargok]

Last campaign, we had something like 15 separate phone bank projects working on different parts of the country. That wasn't enough. I don't recall the official campaign doing any.

C4L has done one, to the best of my knowledge. They contracted the work out and didn't use volunteers. Expensive... The current campaign is apparently hiring lots of C4L staffers... The campaigns phone bank is vaporware and they have hired someone to massage the data. This person or firm is having problems separating out rows by political affiliation. Not encouraging. They are apparently focusing on one city in one state. Meanwhile, Obama is doing phone banking in every major city in the country.

The grassroots was able to pull together a working phonebank fast. We are still waiting on the campaign to get something working.

We need lots of phonebanks! Ideally one in every state in the nation. We need to share technical information and resources on the different ways to do this, and there are several different ways.

The absolute worst thing we could do is stopping phonebanking!

-t

It's not like Steve Bierfeldt did GOTV consulting for Rand Paul or anything... Oh wait, he did. Then he was on the payroll... It's crazy it's like the campaign got a bunch of competent people for the purpose of winning. People who know how to run phone banks, people I have phone banked with in Kentucky and people who got Rand elected in a primary where he was polling similar to what Ron is now. Does that mean he doesn't need volunteers...no but it does mean that a successful strategy by the campaign means they actually need data, data you don't get from calling people and telling them to vote for Ron Paul regardless of how enthusiastic you are.

[Thargok]

What I know is what I learned from RP's '08 staff and one of his former Congressional office staffers. What makes you such an expert? Can either of you that are saying I'm wrong cite the law?

http://www.fec.gov/law/litigation/emilyslist_08.shtml

Also I will not and should not reveal my background but I'm sure that Josh, Kotin, Jeremy, Gage or someone else will vouch for my "being in the know".

[tangent4ronpaul]

http://www.fec.gov/law/litigation/emilyslist_08.shtml

Also I will not and should not reveal my background but I'm sure that Josh, Kotin, Jeremy, Gage or someone else will vouch for my "being in the know".


That's not a law, it's a court interpretation.

Let me guess - Jessy Benton? - as "good" as his rep is.... :rolleyes:

Anyone, anyone? - wanna vouch for this mysterious "other"...

How about ID'ing yourself?

Oh - and your username says tons about your ego.... Just transpose 2 letters...

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

Appeals to "authority" ESPECIALLY a "secret" authority DO NOT CUT IT!

You unzipped your fly - so lets see it...

I'm tired of these pretentious games.

Remember busgate? - same BS, different day. I'm not buying it.

-t

[nayjevin]

Last campaign, we had something like 15 separate phone bank projects working on different parts of the country. That wasn't enough. I don't recall the official campaign doing any.

Totally untrue. The campaign ran phonebanking operations at HQ. For people who want to make calls, that option will be available through the campaign. It will probably big enough that almost everyone can go to their local HQ and call people in their area, connecting with people closest to home means greater interpersonal understanding anyway.

It is a good example of an operation best delegated to political experience. That is the strength of the people Ron will hire and has hired to run campaign operations. And grassroots talent in calling will be sourced, volunteers can call through the campaign.

Robo-calling scripts and cold-calling strategies are a real area of expertise. Poor decisions in the process can be disastrous. The campaign will have people that have real training in such things, it is something I feel we can trust the campaign to do well. Phonebanking was done well by even the highly (overly, imo) criticized and underfunded campaign in 2007/08.

There are good alternative suggestions in this thread as well.

Calling with a message worded such that Ron is not attached to the call directly is one. The real solution in my opinion is to wait, because I highly suspect the majority of people will be able to volunteer with the campaign to make calls.

In the future I recommend holding off on those projects which are advertised as 'hurry! the campaign won't handle this! do or die/all or nothing!'

[centure7]

It is illegal. Any kind of coordination, and data sharing violates FEC law. Its shit i know, but we have to abide by the FEC rules.

Its illegal for who? The person sending the data or the person receiving the data? Which FEC regulation is in question? If I were to place calls collecting for a Romney website, and then I sent Romney a list of the people I called, who would be in violation of the law? Me, Mitt Romney, or both? Clearly if Mitt Romney were in violation, then someone who opposed him and was not involved with his campaign could do exactly that just to get him in trouble.

[civusamericanus]

Totally untrue. The campaign ran phonebanking operations at HQ. For people who want to make calls, that option will be available through the campaign. It will probably big enough that almost everyone can go to their local HQ and call people in their area, connecting with people closest to home means greater interpersonal understanding anyway.

It is a good example of an operation best delegated to political experience. That is the strength of the people Ron will hire and has hired to run campaign operations. And grassroots talent in calling will be sourced, volunteers can call through the campaign.

Robo-calling scripts and cold-calling strategies are a real area of expertise. Poor decisions in the process can be disastrous. The campaign will have people that have real training in such things, it is something I feel we can trust the campaign to do well. Phonebanking was done well by even the highly (overly, imo) criticized and underfunded campaign in 2007/08.

There are good alternative suggestions in this thread as well.

Calling with a message worded such that Ron is not attached to the call directly is one. The real solution in my opinion is to wait, because I highly suspect the majority of people will be able to volunteer with the campaign to make calls.

In the future I recommend holding off on those projects which are advertised as 'hurry! the campaign won't handle this! do or die/all or nothing!'

I respect you and your advice, I have often referred people to your post on canvasing http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?4280-HOWTO-flyer-distribution-amp-DOOR-2-DOOR-The-Anti-Dean-Way-Flyers-In-Iowa-amp-Elsewhere&highlight=nayjevin+dean.

I do think the Wildfire platform that has been setup by a highly competent group of grassroots supporters, and should be used to fill in the gaps that are not covered by the official campaign. It has a simple URL and is very professional in its design. I think waiting a reasonable amount of time until the Official campaign has made their strategy public, is warranted. It will then allow grassroots to work in conjunction of the official campaign with out breaking any rules. For now I will remain quiet on this issue, unless too much time passes and we are significantly outdone by Obama's currently running nationwide phone banks.

[Razmear]

A suggestion if your eager to make calls to Iowa: Call and state you are calling for Mitt Romney's campaign then proceed to act like a total douchebag. That way you still get to help out and you do nothing to tarnish Ron Paul's name in the event that you actually are a douche.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Totally untrue. The campaign ran phonebanking operations at HQ. For people who want to make calls, that option will be available through the campaign. It will probably big enough that almost everyone can go to their local HQ and call people in their area, connecting with people closest to home means greater interpersonal understanding anyway.

It is a good example of an operation best delegated to political experience. That is the strength of the people Ron will hire and has hired to run campaign operations. And grassroots talent in calling will be sourced, volunteers can call through the campaign.

Robo-calling scripts and cold-calling strategies are a real area of expertise. Poor decisions in the process can be disastrous. The campaign will have people that have real training in such things, it is something I feel we can trust the campaign to do well. Phonebanking was done well by even the highly (overly, imo) criticized and underfunded campaign in 2007/08.

There are good alternative suggestions in this thread as well.

Calling with a message worded such that Ron is not attached to the call directly is one. The real solution in my opinion is to wait, because I highly suspect the majority of people will be able to volunteer with the campaign to make calls.

In the future I recommend holding off on those projects which are advertised as 'hurry! the campaign won't handle this! do or die/all or nothing!'

Can you find any links here about the campaign phone banking? I have no, ZERO recollection of this...

[tangent4ronpaul]

I respect you and your advice, I have often referred people to your post on canvasing http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?4280-HOWTO-flyer-distribution-amp-DOOR-2-DOOR-The-Anti-Dean-Way-Flyers-In-Iowa-amp-Elsewhere&highlight=nayjevin+dean.

I do think the Wildfire platform that has been setup by a highly competent group of grassroots supporters, and should be used to fill in the gaps that are not covered by the official campaign. It has a simple URL and is very professional in its design. I think waiting a reasonable amount of time until the Official campaign has made their strategy public, is warranted. It will then allow grassroots to work in conjunction of the official campaign with out breaking any rules. For now I will remain quiet on this issue, unless too much time passes and we are significantly outdone by Obama's currently running nationwide phone banks.

Have they EVER nade their "official" policy public? Plant a seed and watch it grow, seed fruit and grow again... :rolleyes:

[jmdrake]

The call bank isn't a PAC? I thought they were spending something like 4cents per call. As soon as money gets involved, all sorts of FEC BS kicks in.

Which call bank? The campaign's call bank or the independent call bank? If people are independently phone banking on their own time and own dime they can do as much as they want and coordinate with the campaign as much as they want and it's not a problem for the FEC. The FEC regs are quite clear on this. You don't become a PAC unless you as a group spend over $1,000 in an election year.


That's not a law, it's a court interpretation.

Ummmm...you know that court opinions are as good as law right? Seriously, if you ever got in trouble with the FEC and had to go to court, your lawyer would look up old cases that were binding precedent. This case isn't as good as a supreme court decision, but it is pretty good. Also it's overturning an FEC regulation, which isn't statutory law either. That said, the case doesn't speak to the issue of coordination (unless I missed something).

[parocks]

Everyone should be trusting the campaign. It is at least partially true that back in 2008, the official campaign was unable to deal with all the people wanting to support,
and it's true that the grassroots was helpful in 2008.

But it's not normal and right for the grassroots to be some separate organization from the official campaign.

Ron Paul is not under 5% in this campaign cycle. It might be important for Ron Paul to put out the exact message at the exact time.
The benefits of having a tight message might be dissipated if the grassroots does whatever it wants.

Make sure that Ron Paul wins all the online polls, make sure that the Money Bombs are huge.

If you think that a particular issue of importance (Ames Straw Poll) isn't being addressed, contact the official campaign and work with them on the project.

By the way, as regards Iowa, have rock concerts, fundraisers for Ron Paul, at many venues in Iowa prior to the caucuses. Identify Ron Paul supporting Iowans who are part of the local music business, and have "Rock for Ron Paul" all over the place.

Ron Paul had good numbers in South Central PA, and there was a Ron Paul Rally / Fundraiser at a top 500+ club in Harrisburg. Many of the top bands in South Central did support Ron Paul, and wanted to play that show, which was a good success. Iowa is more important than PA, line up the bands, get support, etc.

But don't struggle with the campaign. There's no reason yet to think that this time they won't be able to task you to something.

[Thargok]

I understand that I may have caused some discomfort in this discussion, all issues have since been resolved so there is no reason to keep this here.

[PaulConventionWV]

I don't see that, I see signs the campaign is better organized than last time, and well organized in general. These big projects keep springing up just prior to the campaign announcing they will handle it, on things they would be expected to handle in the first place, like canvassing and phonebanking and busing.

The criticism of the campaign is way premature. Events are rolling out in good timing, the plan's been solid for quite some time. Ron keeps getting news and media. Expect a well done traditional campaign. And pick up where that leaves off, considering what worked and didn't work in 2007/08. Be skeptical of big projects, resist the temptation to head a huge thing without consideration from people who've been at it a while.



To me it' could be trusting the market/grassroots to get the job done. People know how to google. I expect more over time, but presently there's no evidence that would lead me to believe we won't see that.

Thank you! +1

People need to have just a little more confidence and a little less skepticism in the campaign. I always thought this was way premature to be ripping the campaign a new one. Can we all just please get along and not go willy-nilly all over the place like chickens with their heads cut off?

[reduen]

I have nothing to prove to you, it doesn't matter who I am. All you are doing is pissing off people, your head is so fucking inflated that you literally half like 3/4 of the boards telling you to quit being an asshole and all you do is bitch. I don't have to tell you who I am because it doesn't pertain to you, maybe if you socialized with people on here you would know who I am, but I don't have to pull out my resume to tell you that you are a fool. All the staff badges and FEC reports with my name on it wouldn't matter to you because none of them are as big as your ego and you just keep making yourself look like a fool.

Hell an eight-year old who took a 4 hour seminar on campaigning would have a better grasp of reality than you, but you want to stand by your tried and false methods of 2008, so fuck you if you don't like it, I'm actually doing something to move this country in the right direction. Which can and will happen if people deflate their heads long enough to actually give us a true advantage.

__________________________________________________ __

To answer another question posted on here, both parties pay fines, unless one can prove they have no knowledge of the collusion which might as well be impossible. In practicality you would probably just waste Ron's resources because typically the campaign can afford the fine and settles for both parties.

That said if you don't like the way things work, then get out of the way, some of us are trying to win.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6630/99225963.png

While I tend to agree with the opinion that we should let the campaign take the lead on this, your attitude sucks and the fact that you may be working for the official campaign really worries me at this time... You may believe that this unofficial phone banking system will hurt our chances and that is fine for you to have this opinion (educated or not…) of course, but posting things like this and potentially disenfranchising some of the most hard core grass roots supporters like this certainly can’t help.

You say that you are helping move this country in the right direction? Hard to see it in this post. Just saiyin….

[Avalon]

People need to have just a little more confidence and a little less skepticism in the campaign. I always thought this was way premature to be ripping the campaign a new one. Can we all just please get along and not go willy-nilly all over the place like chickens with their heads cut off? I'm not going to "rip them a new one" but neither will I forget the last campaign. Have they changed their leadership? They still seem unwilling to take advantage of us and running half assed, last minute efforts. We need lots of people calling and canvassing in Iowa now. But it can be done well outside Ames or the GOP at the moment.

[notsure]

I'd like to propose a middle-ground here for both sides to come to. I believe that the issue concerning 'multiple calls' can be solved, by simply explaining the situation to your prospective callers. Until the campaign rolls out a phone-bank plan; grassroots callers could just clarify their position as a volunteer for the grassroots movement for RP2012, and politely distance themselves from the Campaign.
ex. " Hello, my name is 'Not Sure', I'm calling on behalf of the Ron Paul grassroots organization from Virginia."

And maybe sometime during your conversation or maybe towards the end, you could explain that you're not affiliated with the official campaign and apologize for any overlap.

Imo, in this type of situation, it's better to have too many calls than none enough. I too received no phone-bank nor poll calls for Ron Paul in 2008.

+

[angelatc]

.Imo, in this type of situation, it's better to have too many calls than none enough. I too received no phone-bank nor poll calls for Ron Paul in 2008.

+

The campaign disagrees. Let. them. do. their. job.

Go wave a sign or something.

[devil21]

Herding cats, once again.

So my question is simply this. How long is the grassroots to wait for the campaign to roll out and coordinate their own phonebanking?

[tangent4ronpaul]

While I tend to agree with the opinion that we should let the campaign take the lead on this, your attitude sucks and the fact that you may be working for the official campaign really worries me at this time... You may believe that this unofficial phone banking system will hurt our chances and that is fine for you to have this opinion (educated or not…) of course, but posting things like this and potentially disenfranchising some of the most hard core grass roots supporters like this certainly can’t help.

You say that you are helping move this country in the right direction? Hard to see it in this post. Just saiyin….

Thanks!
+rep

[ForLibertyFight]

Herding cats, once again.

So my question is simply this. How long is the grassroots to wait for the campaign to roll out and coordinate their own phonebanking?

Yes. How long will we have to wait doing nothing?

[tangent4ronpaul]

yes. How long will we have to wait doing nothing?

exactly!

[QueenB4Liberty]

I just signed up!! :D I can't wait to get this started!!!

Yeah, I phonebanked before and people do not like getting called over and over and over.

[tangent4ronpaul]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6630/99225963.png

http://propagandaremix.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/posters/you.jpg
http://propagandaremix.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/posters/blinders.jpg
http://propagandaremix.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/posters/cuppa.jpg
http://propagandaremix.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/posters/closed.jpg
http://propagandaremix.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/posters/filibuster.jpg

OK - I think we got your basic message - YOU ARE IN CONTROL! and you do not care what we measly lemming, sheeple underlings think or do so long as we follow you - - someone who's Identity is "SECRET" yet we are supposed to follow you and kiss your ass because you claim to be "official".... RIGHT! - Try NOT!

If you actually work for the campaign, and I kinda doubt that - You should be immediately FIRED! for your statements. You are a disgrace!

-t

[Thargok]

I don't care what the hell you do, you can do whatever you want. I'm just saying that when the campaign tells you to stop being detrimental and all you do is bitch and moan it is horrible.

Perhaps I shouldn't have told you off so strongly, but when push comes to shove quit being a pain for the purpose of being a pain. I don't have to tell you that you are being detrimental somebody else already has. I have nothing more to say.


Also I'm not claiming to be official, I am not affiliated with any campaign but there is no reason for us to try to hurt the campaign.

[Badger Paul]

"Why don't those eager to phonebank focus on an area we know the Ron Paul campaign is neglecting, such as the Florida Presidency 5 straw poll? I know the Ames straw poll is more important, but the Presidency 5 straw poll is very important too, and it is more urgent. See http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?294454-Winning-Florida-s-Presidency-5-Straw-Poll As soon as we get the Florida voter database, we will begin robopolling in Florida to identify Ron Paul supporters and direct them to applying to be delegates at Presidency 5. There will be plenty of opportunity for follow-up phonebanking among identified Ron Paul supporters"

When one door closes, another opens...

[Ethek]

Thagrok speaks the truth.

As supporters we really need to be more self assured. This crap is toxic. Just like trying to catch a pop fly, the campaign says they got it. Don't be that guy that keeps running at the ball anyway.

Ultimately the official campaign is the one responsible for the outcome of this election. As grassroots supporters, we of course have the right to do whatever we would like, but be warned that with rights come an equal responsibility. If you can't live with the possibility that what you are doing may loose Ron this election before it starts (in the Iowa straw poll) then step aside. If you can then I think you might be a little flippant and careless. The order of the day is to get over the fact that we have never trusted a campaign to project our interest and trust this one. Be self assured and be able handel disappointment.

Some of the responses in this thread strike me as being a little reactive... To protect itself, the campaign has every right to step away, disassociate or even cut you off at the knees. Is everyone here self assured enough not to go crazy at that point?

I saw this coming a while back. So much to heart that I have written about it and started on a project to support supporters. I think the spontaneous order is going to give this campaign the advantage. I also think that as supporters we have this crazy hump to get over to trust the campaign to do the things that conventional campaigns are supposed to do. Our excellence will be doing things no one has even thought of yet.

[Thargok]

Thagrok speaks the truth.

As supporters we really need to be more self assured. This crap is toxic. Just like trying to catch a pop fly, the campaign says they got it. Don't be that guy that keeps running at the ball anyway.

Ultimately the official campaign is the one responsible for the outcome of this election. As grassroots supporters, we of course have the right to do whatever we would like, but be warned that with rights come an equal responsibility. If you can't live with the possibility that what you are doing may loose Ron this election before it starts (in the Iowa straw poll) then step aside. If you can then I think you might be a little flippant and careless. The order of the day is to get over the fact that we have never trusted a campaign to project our interest and trust this one. Be self assured and be able handel disappointment.

Some of the responses in this thread strike me as being a little reactive... To protect itself, the campaign has every right to step away, disassociate or even cut you off at the knees. Is everyone here self assured enough not to go crazy at that point?

I saw this coming a while back. So much to heart that I have written about it and started on a project to support supporters. I think the spontaneous order is going to give this campaign the advantage. I also think that as supporters we have this crazy hump to get over to trust the campaign to do the things that conventional campaigns are supposed to do. Our excellence will be doing things no one has even thought of yet.

That is exactly what we need to focus on, we have such a large group that we can find something effective and unconventional, but that doesn't mean we have to stick to unconventional ineffective things.

[Matt@WhoisMises]

By the way, as regards Iowa, have rock concerts, fundraisers for Ron Paul, at many venues in Iowa prior to the caucuses. Identify Ron Paul supporting Iowans who are part of the local music business, and have "Rock for Ron Paul" all over the place. I like the outside the box thinking. Let's do more of this event promotion.

What about an Iowan Garage Sale Strategy? Go to all the Garage Sales and buy some trinkets and then ask the owner "Hey can you voluntarily (wink wink) put this Ron Paul sign up on your garage door.. or perhaps hang it off your roof!" When you buy something from anybody, they're more likely to listen to the Ron Paul message. Get there in the morning for max sign exposure. So much opportunity there, not only with the owner but the other shoppers. If the FEC nazis have issue with this, we can find a legal loophole.

I also like the suggestion earlier that the campaign coordinate with the unofficial phone bank and just split phone #'s or split the dem/independent/republican demographic... anything, just split up the work and join forces. If HQ is not communicating, then perhaps we reach out either via formal letter or creative Youtube.

Make a video of all the passionate grassroots phone bankers at their home or place of business and submit it to HQ (logistically, people would have to video or webcam themselves and submit it to a videographer). Could even try to persuade HQ to use the video as a marketing tool. In other words, when we do phone bank Iowans, we can refer to the YouTube and they can put a face to a name. Just show in the video that you care about Iowan & American issues, etc. etc. you know how to do it.

We're good at thinking outside the box, so let's keep trying. Hope it makes sense because I've just read 13 pages of this thread and I'm exhausted.

[jaktober]

The grassroots is so mega and on fire that we overwhelmed the campaign. It shows that they really want to win, if they are wanting to go about phone banking as legit as possible. It makes sense that a grassroots movement that has been revving up for the last 4 years would be ahead of the official campaign. We need to relax and let the two sync up. I understand not wanting to wait, as I just posted a resource guide for people to take on the campaign solo if need be: http://freeindependentsun.com/republic/from-grassroots-to-hemp-stalks-an-independent-activists-guide-to-the-ron-paul-2012-campaign/

I've "signed up" for wildfire and the official campaign. Can wait a week for an official game plan. Iowa is too important to f-up and a week waiting won't kill our chances. Setting up this phone bank is hopefully priority 1 for the official campaign right now, as it is obvious there is a force moving in its direction.

[Imperial]

right.

I'm sure the campaign will be able to call everyone on the registered Iowa GOP list.

How many campaigns have you worked on Jeremy? What are you doing right now for Ron Paul 2012?

You do not call everybody on the registered GOP list. You do not want to turn out everybody if the campaigns they support are not willing to do the work to do it. The campaign will focus on targeting Paul supporters; those are the ones we turn out.

[sailingaway]

I'm torn between thinking this shouldn't be happening and suggesting to those doing it anyhow that they let people who sound like they like Ron know that Ron is having a rally in Des Moines on June 25th (see other thread.)

[trey4sports]

I'm torn between thinking this shouldn't be happening and suggesting to those doing it anyhow that they let people who sound like they like Ron know that Ron is having a rally in Des Moines on June 25th (see other thread.)

noted, i will pass the message along

[Avalon]

You do not call everybody on the registered GOP list. You do not want to turn out everybody if the campaigns they support are not willing to do the work to do it. The campaign will focus on targeting Paul supporters; those are the ones we turn out. You find out who your supporters are (and people who may be converted) by calling and canvassing blind; you round up the supporters you find/make close to the event.

[trey4sports]

You find out who your supporters are (and people who may be converted) by calling and canvassing blind; you round up the supporters you find/make close to the event.

exactly

[LibertyEagle]

I would reckon doing something is better than doing nothing, incompetent or otherwise. I find it disturbing you place such faith in one man to plan out everything that will succeed. If we know anything it is that, that is a losing formula. Let a thousand ideas flourish and the best ones will rise to the top.

It is RON PAUL who trusts Steve.

And yes, one heck of a lot of damage can be done by calling the same people multiple times. We can turn people completely against Ron Paul.

Rand had a program that opened the door for a lot of us to make calls for him. It worked. I'm betting that this same thing will be used in Iowa. Please give them a chance.

Our motto has to be to first DO NO HARM to Dr. Paul's campaign.

[parocks]

Hopefully, the campaign will be so efficient, so well organized, so on top of it that the grassroots simply does what the campaign asks and it's always smart and worthwhile
and the grassroots always has a lot to do. Still, even then, there will still be people who max out their financial contributions, and will want to put additional monies into
additional projects. With money, an effort like having a lot of local Ron Paul concerts in Iowa and New Hampshire could be effective.

Outside of the box thinking is good, we shouldn't be doing what the campaign itself should be doing. Yes, people should be encouraged to channel their energies through the official campaign, I'm typically against free lance stuff, would rather have the campaign on top of things, but this does seem to be the kind of thing that grassroots should be doing.

Identify good local bands in NH and Iowa, see if they're interested? Identify promising venues? Identify promising dates?


By the way, as regards Iowa, have rock concerts, fundraisers for Ron Paul, at many venues in Iowa prior to the caucuses. Identify Ron Paul supporting Iowans who are part of the local music business, and have "Rock for Ron Paul" all over the place. I like the outside the box thinking. Let's do more of this event promotion.

What about an Iowan Garage Sale Strategy? Go to all the Garage Sales and buy some trinkets and then ask the owner "Hey can you voluntarily (wink wink) put this Ron Paul sign up on your garage door.. or perhaps hang it off your roof!" When you buy something from anybody, they're more likely to listen to the Ron Paul message. Get there in the morning for max sign exposure. So much opportunity there, not only with the owner but the other shoppers. If the FEC nazis have issue with this, we can find a legal loophole.

I also like the suggestion earlier that the campaign coordinate with the unofficial phone bank and just split phone #'s or split the dem/independent/republican demographic... anything, just split up the work and join forces. If HQ is not communicating, then perhaps we reach out either via formal letter or creative Youtube.

Make a video of all the passionate grassroots phone bankers at their home or place of business and submit it to HQ (logistically, people would have to video or webcam themselves and submit it to a videographer). Could even try to persuade HQ to use the video as a marketing tool. In other words, when we do phone bank Iowans, we can refer to the YouTube and they can put a face to a name. Just show in the video that you care about Iowan & American issues, etc. etc. you know how to do it.

We're good at thinking outside the box, so let's keep trying. Hope it makes sense because I've just read 13 pages of this thread and I'm exhausted.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

The Ron Paul grass roots has had three years since the last campaign to form a private club which operates completely outside the scrutiny of the FEC and develop the best decentralized political tools known to voting man. In order to maximize efficiency and reduce costs these tools could be used across several campaigns. Users of such tools could develop skill sets that enable them to become highly proficient using the tools. Such tools could have already been vetted and improved.

Some people had the vision and insight to look in their crystal ball and predict the bullshit going on in this very thread 3 years ago. You did not listen to those people. You supported top down organizations or individual campaigns that serve the grass roots no benefit for the 2012 presidential election.

Does anyone really want to hear people bitching who command your eternal vigilance yet have no concept how to make eternal vigilance efficient? Does anyone want hear any of the johnnies come lately in this thread bitching?

[parocks]

Here's one idea. Now, remember, Iowa is super critical, right? An Iowa caucus vote is the most valuable single vote you can get, right? And New Hampshire.

Here's one. Talk to Vaudeville Mews - the rock venue I've found is possibly the coolest in Des Moines. Say - here's a lot of money. What can we do?
How about Ron Paul Free Show. All they might have to do is just pay the guarantee with grassroots money. This amount of money is not very much.
The venue is cool, but it doesn't mean that 1000 people are paying $20.

Grassroots Ron Paul people would be there, probably official campaign staff would be there. It would probably just improve things if the grassroots was providing
good free music at http://www.vaudevillemews.com/index.php?p=calendar . The amounts of money involved are probably much less than you think. Hopefully the owner either likes Ron Paul or is a Democrat who wouldn't mind hyping Ron Paul for whatever reason. http://www.facebook.com/VaudevilleMews. It would be good to develop a good relationship with that venue. At some point in time, if there are rock stars liking Ron Paul, we could just put them in on one of our nights.

Also, there really should be, if nothing else, Ron Paul afterparties with bands at all of these events that we want people to go to. Various straw polls. Grassroots contacts the right venues in advance and gives them money. It really should work easily, and isn't that kind of a good expense? A longer better party in a given town is going to draw more people in to the straw polls. Figure out where all the straw polls are, then figure out what venue you want. Grassroots should be able to come up with that kind of money. Identify people here from the various cities, they can be helpful. Bands would like this, because they're getting paid the same, but theres a lot more people, because it's free, and there are a lot of Ron Paul people there. Ames, IA - The Maintenance Shop is one to consider for Iowa Straw Poll. As a student-run entity of Iowa State University's Student Union Board (SUB), the M-Shop can be rented for events or private use.

How about finding out how much the M shop would cost to rent the night before or after the straw poll. Put the most popular Iowa local bands in there. Free show, almost like a free festival, that will draw people from all over the state, oh, and during the day, go to the straw poll. Create the conditions to bring people into Ames. Then move them to the straw poll and vote for Ron Paul. This is not a particularly expensive project, it could be one of many efforts to bring people to vote for Ron Paul into Ames. If research has found that people who like cute kitties prefer Ron Paul to Mitt Romney, we could put together a cute kitties convention. This should be a new
development of the grassroots this time around. http://www.facebook.com/themshop - I just "liked" both of those venues facebooks, perhaps others should too.

[sailingaway]

The Ron Paul grass roots has had three years since the last campaign to form a private club which operates completely outside the scrutiny of the FEC and develop the best decentralized political tools known to voting man. In order to maximize efficiency and reduce costs these tools could be used across several campaigns. Users of such tools could develop skill sets that enable them to become highly proficient using the tools. Such tools could have already been vetted and improved.

Some people had the vision and insight to look in their crystal ball and predict the bullshit going on in this very thread 3 years ago. You did not listen to those people. You supported top down organizations or individual campaigns that serve the grass roots no benefit for the 2012 presidential election.

Does anyone really want to hear people bitching who command your eternal vigilance yet have no concept how to make eternal vigilance efficient? Does anyone want hear any of the johnnies come lately in this thread bitching?

Does that mean the end product information is being used on campaigns other than Ron Paul's? Are Ron Paul supporters being asked to essentially volunteer to support other candidates they individually may not want to support?

And if so are any of those 'other campaigns' actually competing with Ron Paul's, like, say, Gary Johnson's?

Because transparency is needed here.

People volunteering on Ron Paul sites are thinking they are helping Ron get and keep a competitive edge, and if this is giving others with nothing like the supporter base Ron Paul has any kind of lift, that should be spelled out.

For example if people are going to use identification of those who like Ron to call back and suggest Gary is 'like' Ron but better (as I have seen again in recent blog meme's) that would be poisoning the well. For a number of reasons, one being that the areas where they differ are areas very important to Iowa, and the reverse suggestion, that Ron is like Gary, could hurt Ron.

Just speaking for myself personally, (meaning not as a mod) if I knew it weren't going to harm the campaign to call multiple times, I would still want to know how the information and my own email address was going to be used, going forward.

[pacelli]

Not this bullshit again.

Calling someone is a form of intrusion. Repeatedly calling someone is a form of harassment. I'm not speaking legally, I'm speaking psychologically.

Do you really want Ron Paul's name to be associated (emotionally) with harassment? Over the past 4 years there have been many threads about how to use NLP and other psychological principles to Ron Paul's advantage in 2012. Lets just throw some more virtual snowballs...

Don't fuck up the campaign before the campaign even gets started. In 07-08 we had a serious problem getting any form of direction from the official campaign. We only got campaign statements AFTER RP posted the "winding down" video.

And I'm sorry, but I see a lot of "experts" in this thread who took a 3 year sabbatical from the forum, while a great deal of planning was done by people who gave a shit when there were no polls to win and no campaign to bitch about. Sorry you left and bailed on the planning when there was NO campaign. We don't have time to repeat strategies that have failed in the past.


The most important thing right now is to make the June 5 fundraiser huge. The campaign's former fundraising director came onto these forums and told us that the money came too late in the game for them to make an influence on the election. For some reason I suspect that the campaign has a set of time-sensitive plans based on the outcome of June 5.

I say do exactly what the campaign suggests until the Ames straw poll. If the campaign is unable to provide leadership to win a straw poll, then it is time for the grassroots to take over. And I'll be the first to say it-- if this is another educational campaign, you can count me out. Ames is the campaign's test for me. Until then, they're in charge.




The Ames Straw Poll, an all-day event scheduled for August 13 at the Iowa State University basketball arena, is seen as a crucial test of each campaign's organizational strength in Iowa and has the potential to make or break a candidacy.

Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee took the top two spots in the 2007 contest, presaging their fight to the finish in the 2008 Iowa caucuses (Huckabee eventually won).

Meanwhile, underwhelming finishes in that same straw poll by former Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback and former Wisconsin Gov. Tommy Thompson spelled doom for their candidacies.

The results are by no means scientific: More than 14,000 Republicans attended and cast ballots in 2007, but several top tier candidates, including Sen. John McCain and former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani skipped the straw poll. Romney, however, spent heavily to get his supporters to cast ballots.

Every presidential candidate will have the chance to address the 2011 straw poll audience, but no campaign surrogates will be given time to speak, the Iowa GOP official said.

This year's contest will also feature a new twist: Iowans who will be of voting age by November 2012 will be able to participate, meaning that high school students are sure to be targeted by each campaign.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/17/iowa-gop-outlines-rules-for-ames-straw-poll/

[tangent4ronpaul]

Here's one idea. Now, remember, Iowa is super critical, right? An Iowa caucus vote is the most valuable single vote you can get, right? And New Hampshire.

Here's one. Talk to Vaudeville Mews - the rock venue I've found is possibly the coolest in Des Moines. Say - here's a lot of money. What can we do?
How about Ron Paul Free Show. All they might have to do is just pay the guarantee with grassroots money. This amount of money is not very much.
The venue is cool, but it doesn't mean that 1000 people are paying $20.

Grassroots Ron Paul people would be there, probably official campaign staff would be there. It would probably just improve things if the grassroots was providing
good free music at http://www.vaudevillemews.com/index.php?p=calendar . The amounts of money involved are probably much less than you think. Hopefully the owner either likes Ron Paul or is a Democrat who wouldn't mind hyping Ron Paul for whatever reason. http://www.facebook.com/VaudevilleMews. It would be good to develop a good relationship with that venue. At some point in time, if there are rock stars liking Ron Paul, we could just put them in on one of our nights.

Also, there really should be, if nothing else, Ron Paul afterparties with bands at all of these events that we want people to go to. Various straw polls. Grassroots contacts the right venues in advance and gives them money. It really should work easily, and isn't that kind of a good expense? A longer better party in a given town is going to draw more people in to the straw polls. Figure out where all the straw polls are, then figure out what venue you want. Grassroots should be able to come up with that kind of money. Identify people here from the various cities, they can be helpful. Bands would like this, because they're getting paid the same, but theres a lot more people, because it's free, and there are a lot of Ron Paul people there. Ames, IA - The Maintenance Shop is one to consider for Iowa Straw Poll. As a student-run entity of Iowa State University's Student Union Board (SUB), the M-Shop can be rented for events or private use.

How about finding out how much the M shop would cost to rent the night before or after the straw poll. Put the most popular Iowa local bands in there. Free show, almost like a free festival, that will draw people from all over the state, oh, and during the day, go to the straw poll. Create the conditions to bring people into Ames. Then move them to the straw poll and vote for Ron Paul. This is not a particularly expensive project, it could be one of many efforts to bring people to vote for Ron Paul into Ames. If research has found that people who like cute kitties prefer Ron Paul to Mitt Romney, we could put together a cute kitties convention. This should be a new
development of the grassroots this time around. http://www.facebook.com/themshop - I just "liked" both of those venues facebooks, perhaps others should too.

Why don't you re-post this in the IA straw poll sub-forum as it's own thread? It's just going to get buried in this thread.

Good idea!
+rep

[Matt@WhoisMises]

Hopefully the owner either likes Ron Paul or is a Democrat who wouldn't mind hyping Ron Paul for whatever reason
Democrats have been force-fed the scenario that if Ron Paul were the GOP nominee, that the GOP would have no chance to beat Obama, giving all the more reason to have Dems coordinate and cooperate with pre-Ames promotion!
Also, there really should be, if nothing else, Ron Paul afterparties
Very true. If I remember correctly, we had a glimpse of that in NH 2007, but it was more spontaneous and people thought Ron Paul himself would be making a cameo. But I think Iowans could pull off some sweet parties with the right planning. To use a baseball phrase "It's all about putting butts in the seats".

On a sidenote, what if we (or the campaign since they have $$) hired Merton the Internet Piano Sensation to do a Chat Roulette version of phone banking? He's already done a T-Mobile commercial. And since I heard he was a Rush fan, may be libertarian.. or may just want to help an "underdog" like Ron. He doesn't even have to overtly support Ron.. just be funny and do his thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB51eao2MLg&feature=related I'll also post in the Straw Poll sub-forum as well

[parocks]

Yeah, planning and money. It shouldn't be too hard, really. I'm not sure that Iowa State is open. Obviously, Hilton Coliseum is open, but I have no idea what else could be rented. The Maintenance Shop, an all age venue (no alcohol) in the student union is a good venue, and they have been having good bands there since the 70s. The high school students could go to a concert at the Maintencance Shop, and the M Shop is available for rental, available for Private, but is it open on Aug 13? My thinking
is just get that room at the time we want. I haven't found the time of the straw poll, but there was reference to a dinner, so this thing could be an afternoon thing, good bands, we have people there who are talking to the crowd, and figuring out who wants to go to the straw poll. If they're enthused, send em over right away. Then, we wait for a signal from HQ saying it's time to move over, and then we walk everyone else over. The band stops when this happens. We all go over, try to herd our people, teach our people how to vote. The capacity of this venue is small. About 200. So we would want to get our people moving from the concert to the straw poll when possible. Even if the M Shop is closed, there might be some other venue or area that could be rented. We can put bands on a lawn 2 blocks from the event.
I'm starting to look at what non college is right around the corner.


Hopefully the owner either likes Ron Paul or is a Democrat who wouldn't mind hyping Ron Paul for whatever reason
Democrats have been force-fed the scenario that if Ron Paul were the GOP nominee, that the GOP would have no chance to beat Obama, giving all the more reason to have Dems coordinate and cooperate with pre-Ames promotion!
Also, there really should be, if nothing else, Ron Paul afterparties
Very true. If I remember correctly, we had a glimpse of that in NH 2007, but it was more spontaneous and people thought Ron Paul himself would be making a cameo. But I think Iowans could pull off some sweet parties with the right planning. To use a baseball phrase "It's all about putting butts in the seats".

On a sidenote, what if we (or the campaign since they have $$) hired Merton the Internet Piano Sensation to do a Chat Roulette version of phone banking? He's already done a T-Mobile commercial. And since I heard he was a Rush fan, may be libertarian.. or may just want to help an "underdog" like Ron. He doesn't even have to overtly support Ron.. just be funny and do his thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB51eao2MLg&feature=related I'll also post in the Straw Poll sub-forum as well

[ForLibertyFight]

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=100982136661088

[Avalon]

We should set up a website for a new polling organization. We can then call and canvass on behalf on this organization, gathering all the data we want, but most importantly #'s and houses that are for RP or who may be sympathetic (and their most important issues: war, christianity, economy, etc). For canvassing, a different person goes back (months later) armed knowing what angles to work and convert, recruit, whatever.

[sailingaway]

We should set up a website for a new polling organization. We can then call and canvass on behalf on this organization, gathering all the data we want, but most importantly #'s and houses that are for RP or who may be sympathetic (and their most important issues: war, christianity, economy, etc). For canvassing, a different person goes back (months later) armed knowing what angles to work and convert, recruit, whatever.

Again, would the work by supporters from this site be used ONLY for Ron's campaign, or is it to be used for other campaigns including campaigns competing with Ron's? There is going to be a lot of work done, and I know some groups of meetups for example that were 'Ron Paul meetups' where simply flipped over to Gary Johnson meetups this time because the organizer wanted to. People who are putting work in for Ron Paul should know if it is being used to support other candidates, (No one addressed this when I asked it earlier.)

[Avalon]

Again, would the work by supporters from this site be used ONLY for Ron's campaign, or is it to be used for other campaigns including campaigns competing with Ron's? There is going to be a lot of work done, and I know some groups of meetups for example that were 'Ron Paul meetups' where simply flipped over to Gary Johnson meetups this time because the organizer wanted to. People who are putting work in for Ron Paul should know if it is being used to support other candidates, (No one addressed this when I asked it earlier.) I can't answer for other people but I agree with you. The easiest/failsafe solution is to just leave the data in the hands of the contributor; contributors would just submit to the organization who had been contacted. Then they can turn the data over to the campaign, their meetup, or act on it themselves. The other solution, which requires some trust, is to keep all data stored according to contributor and if someone wants to use it for some other purpose they have to get permission from the contributors (however many they can).

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Again, would the work by supporters from this site be used ONLY for Ron's campaign, or is it to be used for other campaigns including campaigns competing with Ron's? There is going to be a lot of work done, and I know some groups of meetups for example that were 'Ron Paul meetups' where simply flipped over to Gary Johnson meetups this time because the organizer wanted to. People who are putting work in for Ron Paul should know if it is being used to support other candidates, (No one addressed this when I asked it earlier.)

I don't consider the question relevant for what I would envision in the idea I floated. If you want my further comments, I am willing to host a skype conversation about it. I really don't feel like laying out a start-up blueprint on the forum for a competitor regarding this idea. PM me if actually interested.

[sailingaway]

I don't consider the question relevant for what I would envision in the idea I floated. If you want my further comments, I am willing to host a skype conversation about it. I really don't feel like laying out a start-up blueprint on the forum for a competitor regarding this idea. PM me if actually interested.

My interest is that people on this forum not be misled about what the work they put in will be used for. I'd have to see criterion for future candidates before being interested in this project, although the concept is intriguing if I personally got to pick which candidates it would benefit, or at least regarding which candidates it would never be used to push a competitor. Therein lies the rub. I wouldn't work for something that might be used for a candidate competing against Ron, specifically.

[Thomas]

And I'm sorry, but I see a lot of "experts" in this thread who took a 3 year sabbatical from the forum, while a great deal of planning was done by people who gave a shit when there were no polls to win and no campaign to bitch about. Sorry you left and bailed on the planning when there was NO campaign. We don't have time to repeat strategies that have failed in the past.

Yes.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

My interest is that people on this forum not be misled about what the work they put in will be used for. I'd have to see criterion for future candidates before being interested in this project, although the concept is intriguing if I personally got to pick which candidates it would benefit, or at least regarding which candidates it would never be used to push a competitor. Therein lies the rub. I wouldn't work for something that might be used for a candidate competing against Ron, specifically.

Your thinking reflects a top down nature and in the context of an organization dictating to members your question makes sense. My line of thought for a liberty club is not top down central planning, merely enabling tools, hence the reason I consider your question irrelevant.

[sailingaway]

My concern is what my time would promote. I am not interested in promoting anyone against Ron Paul, even as a secondary factor. Gary Johnson being in the race frankly complicates things. My concern is NOT about liberty candidates who are not running against Ron Paul.

[parocks]

The official campaign should take care of that type of voter contact. They have an idea about how they want to proceed, and this type of work is what they specialize in.
But we can help their efforts. The grassroots arranges suitable housing, food, transportation (basically provides money), and the volunteers go to the official campaign and do what they're told. If the official campaign does not have work for them, the grassroots will have developed special projects that can be worked on when the official campaign does not need them.

One special project is the "get a few bodies down to Ames, and find out the best way to get hundreds or thousands of Ames HS grads (and Iowa State students who are there) to the straw poll. I would think that we could find people, people who live in Ames who know a lot of people. Give them money. Those are the Iowa leaders of the grassroots 18-24 special project. The things we'd be doing, not trying to find voters, but finding volunteers, and grassroots staff, finding workers, these things are not things that the official campaign would likely be doing. We're doing something helpful, but extra. We're here for the official campaign whenever they want, but we can keep ourselves busy doing useful things the official campaign wouldn't be doing.