Counter-point threads

[Bryan]

I went through the database here and made a collection of links that deal with providing a counter-point to an assortment of common criticism. If you find a new link please add it. If the list gets long enough Josh might make us a special sub-forum for these types of threads.

Enjoy:


Be Prepared to Deal With This Sort of Stuff (Racism charge)
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=557

Rebuttal to "Blame America First" Accusations
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=515

"Islamists are at war with the entire world"
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=578

Is Ron Paul really a racist?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=685

Good Reply to accusations that Ron would be soft on terror
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=794

Friend Says "Ron Paul Lost Me" Over Bill
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=1261

How to package the "blowback" issue
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=1419

How to rescue a neo-con
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=1222

Criticizing Ron Paul
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=1711

Illegal Immigration - How to respond?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=1853

how ron should answer the "out of touch with republicans" question
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=1995

Isolationist
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=2040

Ammunition against: "Dying in the streets"...
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=2788

Is this bad news or isnt not (Eric Dondero)
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=21113

Pardon my ignorance. a response to a friend about the libertarian stance
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=2381

A good argument to the Amber Alert Bill
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=2778

Email from super-smart and good friend lost in Hannityland
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=3079

Counterpoint to a common objection (limits from federal position such as on abortion)
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=30890

Ron Paul being painted as a person that protects child molesters
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=2666

Useful debating tactic to win over skeptics
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=3980

Won't the people that work in those departments be out of their jobs?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=68778

Need Counter-Points for "Paul Can't Win"
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=7420

Against Israel? Against Pro-choice?.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=7484

Converting the unbelievers.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=5568

convert a pro-war conservative
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=5425

[Bloody Holly]

yeah I've encountered those alot. Thanks for the information!

[mdh]

The #1 most common argument that I *can't* flip is that people are wasting their votes or letting the greater of two evils have a victory by voting for someone else. :(

I can flip sane/intelligent people on just about every other issue without much trouble, but the vast majority of people who walk away without being new Ron Paul fans have this idea in their head.
Anyone ever figure out a really effective counterpoint for this?

[Dan Klaus]

This is the kind of helpful post that I come to read on this board. Good post - thanks for that.

[Bryan]

This is the kind of helpful post that I come to read on this board. Good post - thanks for that.
Thanks- I just added the following:

Email from super-smart and good friend lost in Hannityland
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=3079

Counterpoint to a common objection (limits from federal position such as on abortion)
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=30890

Ron Paul being painted as a person that protects child molesters
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=2666

Useful debating tactic to win over skeptics
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=3980

[LibertyCzar]

Thanks- I just added the following:

Counterpoint to a common objection (limits from federal position such as on abortion)
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=30890

Thanks for including this! :D

Of course, this involves all federal activity. Which includes even such executive overreaching as the vice president thinking he is beyond the scope of oversight and accountability.

[constituent14]

A wasted vote? Maybe on a spoiler candidate in the general election... but here is my feeling on that:

Every vote counts win or loose. The point is this, if people are not angry enough with the system to even vote for those who will fight it, the big bosses know they've got it in the shade. You have to think about this in terms of demographics. The candidate or party you put your vote behind is not what is important. What is important? Showing that you atleast care enough to vote. Those who are marginalized and ignored b/c they are not typically seen as the voting population will no longer be treated with the same disregard.

Simply by voting you will effect party platforms in the next election cycle. And yes, despite all the "fear the all powerful dictators" rhetoric, there will be future elections... "none of them can stop the time."

[Man from La Mancha]

The #1 most common argument that I *can't* flip is that people are wasting their votes or letting the greater of two evils have a victory by voting for someone else. :(

I can flip sane/intelligent people on just about every other issue without much trouble, but the vast majority of people who walk away without being new Ron Paul fans have this idea in their head.
Anyone ever figure out a really effective counterpoint for this?

Would pointing out that the two evils are pretty much equal help.
.

[nayjevin]

The #1 most common argument that I *can't* flip is that people are wasting their votes or letting the greater of two evils have a victory by voting for someone else.

I just say "I vote on principle, not on who I think will win."

It makes them feel unprincipled -- sometimes you have to hit em pretty hard.

[Rabbit]

Hi all..

The questions about how to handle "wasting votes," "lesser/greater of two evils," etc. are the most important and most difficult problems anyone can face when trying to argue for support of RP.. I have been pondering this topic for the last 2 weeks.. As a matter of fact, I came to this forum (found it on a Google search) to discuss just this! When discussing RP with a "skeptic," it seems no matter how many walls you break down, no matter how many convincing points you make, the FEAR of "wasting a vote" or "evil will take over and engulf Earth" will inevitably be your final obstacle(s)..

Here's the deal: If you want true change in government, if you want to rock the status quo, then voting for anyone *but* RP is a wasted vote.. Convincing someone of this is easier said than done, though.. Part of me thinks it might even be impossible to crack the doubters irrationality, as it requires converting COWERING HOPELESS FEAR into COURAGE and CONVICTION..

Then you have those types like my BF who are proud of their "voter virginity," who claim any vote, even for someone as together as RP, is a vote in favor of an illegitimate system.. He (and his friends) are very stubborn on this point and I have not been able to budge them at all..

Anyway, I think these concepts are going to be the biggest factor to overcome before RP has a real chance.. Any more ideas?!

[constituent14]

A vote in favor of an illegitimate system? So is a no-vote.

[nexalacer]

How bout the one's that complain that he's anti-gay marriage or anti-abortion rights. While obviously he is pro-life, we need to allow abortion rights or gay marriage folks realize that he will not really make much of a push towards legislating these things.

[libertysilver]

The #1 most common argument that I *can't* flip is that people are wasting their votes or letting the greater of two evils have a victory by voting for someone else. :(

I can flip sane/intelligent people on just about every other issue without much trouble, but the vast majority of people who walk away without being new Ron Paul fans have this idea in their head.
Anyone ever figure out a really effective counterpoint for this?
This is because of the Nader Effect.

What is different is that Ron Paul is not running as a 3rd party.

The question is, who would he be taking votes away from????

No one that I want to elect.

So explain the "oh", you're talking about the Nader Effect. That was because
Nader was running for a 3rd Party. Ron Paul is running as a Republican!
So that is not the case here.

Or you could say, what are you afraid of, that Guiliani will loose?

[Bryan]

Added the following- if anyone remembers any other good threads that I've missed, let me know:

Won't the people that work in those departments be out of their jobs?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=68778

Need Counter-Points for "Paul Can't Win"
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=7420

Against Israel? Against Pro-choice?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=7484

Converting the unbelievers.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=5568

convert a pro-war conservative
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=5425

[Montana]

The #1 most common argument that I *can't* flip is that people are wasting their votes or letting the greater of two evils have a victory by voting for someone else.

I can flip sane/intelligent people on just about every other issue without much trouble, but the vast majority of people who walk away without being new Ron Paul fans have this idea in their head.
Anyone ever figure out a really effective counterpoint for this?The simplest thing to do here is to convince them that he can win. Show them the straw polls where he comes in first or second. The video from the rally where he attracted >1000 people and the entire candidates forum only attracted 600. Remind them that there are a lot of neocons to split the insane warmonger vote between, but only one constitutionalist. Remind them that Clinton and Carter were polling at Ron Paul levels at this point in their campaigns. And so on.

[Colleen]

Bryan,

Thanks for helping us locate these arguments here. It sure does make life easier for us all.

[fsk]

How about "The Federal Reserve is Evil" and "The Income Tax is Evil"? There seems to be a thread popping up on that topic frequently. It would be nice to have a definitive FAQ.

[Craig_R]

title says it all I guess.