Thoughts on Electing an NC GOP Chair

[Oldsouljer]

I believe Dr. Timothy Johnson is running. Is there anyone else contending against Robin Hayes?

[GunnyFreedom]

I believe Dr. Timothy Johnson is running. Is there anyone else contending against Robin Hayes?

Tim Johnson will be running for vice chair again, and we need to do everything we can to help him win. Robin Hayes has spent a LOT of time courting tea partiers, so I sincerely doubt there is a chance in hell of raising the votes. I scarcely expect anybody to try at this point. On the bright side, Robin Hayes is (as far as I know) actually working WITH Tim Johnson instead of trying to bury him like the predecessor...

[Oldsouljer]

Interesting, I clearly got some erroneous info. As for Hayes, I am incredulous that people who should know better want to elect the poster child of the ear-marking, pork-barreling Republican congress of 2006.

[MozoVote]

I think both the delegates and potential candidates are still tired from the exhausting NC Chair election in 2009. It takes a great deal of travel to canvass all 100 counties, and meet the GOP members to run for chair.

The party structure has lined up for Hayes anyway, so it would take a very heavy lift to persuade the rank and file members to buck them and vote for an outsider.

[GunnyFreedom]

In all fairness, and as someone who has never much liked Hayes at all and would FAR prefer someone who thinks like us to be NCGOP Chair, Hayes HAS made overtures to the NC Ron Paulers like nobody in NCGOP history could have imagined. Now, I fully recognize that this could have merely been an effort to discourage opposition for the 2011 run for chair, BUT I will say that when it comes to PARTY leadership, actual policy position is far less important than simply who gets a seat at the table.

At this point I am "wait and see" with Hayes. Honestly, I couldn't care less if the party chairman is a fiscally liberal neocon, as log as we Ron Paulers get our full seat at the table and do not get shut out of the process, because at the party chairman level - public policy is only about 5% of the picture, while 85% to 90% is all about the different factions being fairly represented in the Excomm, Centcomm, etc etc.

I know at this point there is little or no point in actually running against Hayes with the party and tea party support he has already built up, as well as the outreach to Paulers that would cause our number to be less than 100% enthusiastic about the effort to defeat him. So, from a Pauler perspective, I'd say let's invest 100% of our effort into making sure Tim Johnson gets reelected to Vice Chair (especially since Hayes has actually been working WITH Johnson instead of against him like the prior chair).

The guy running against Johnson is an order of magnitude more of a pro-establishment anti-Pauler tool than Hayes is, and I believe more even than TF was.

So I hate to say it, but I honestly believe that at this point the best bet is to leave Hayes alone for now and focus on Johnson, as well as whatever POO platform and resolutions are being brought. Hayes has made it clear in running for this spot that he intends to give us Paulers the seat at the table we merit. IF he follows through on that promise, (a big 'if' I know) hell, I might even support him for re-election in 2013...because I've been saying for years now that all we really need is our fair seat at the table to dominate the NCGOP debate. If he does his job right, then his personal policies - whatever they may be - are irrelevant to his function as a state party chairman.

But as to whether he remains true to that promise, it remains to be seen. I'd rather have someone in a position to become chair who we KNOW will give us our fair share, but I just do not see that happening this year.

[GunnyFreedom]

Interesting, I clearly got some erroneous info. As for Hayes, I am incredulous that people who should know better want to elect the poster child of the ear-marking, pork-barreling Republican congress of 2006.

Ehh, I think party office and public office are two extremely different things. I'm not trying to defend Hayes (even though I no longer think it's a good idea to run someone against him this year) but by demonstrating that we may be able to give him a slight benefit of the doubt on account of his promises to ensure that the Tea Partiers and Ron Paulers are fully represented, we also demonstrate to the rest of the NCGOP that we can work together when we are treated fairly. If played correctly, this could be the next paradigm changer that seriously strengthens the NC Pauler faction in the State Party.

If you recall from the previous 3 years, the biggest complaint that the NCGOP rank and file has against the Pauler faction is that we don't play well with others. All we have ever wanted was our fair share. Hayes has promised to give us our fair share. He's possibly (probably?) lying about that, but given that he will be almost impossible to beat this year anyway, we can use it to demonstrate that we'll even work with people we don't like so long as we are treated fairly. Then, if the promise turns out to be a lie, we win all kinds of allies for the 2013 fight, and if the promise turns out to be true, we have everything we actually want from the State Party Org anyway, so who really cares who the chair is?

We are kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one, but it makes for the perfect opportunity to demonstrate magnanimity. The lack of that, if I recall correctly, is the rest of the NCGOP's biggest complaint against us. So worst case scenario we lose 2 years on "hold" so to speak, but remove the primary argument against us from the lips of our partisan opposition.

[aclove]

I think Glen makes some excellent points. We had a good conference call Friday night concerning strategy, and will follow up on Tuesday to discuss drafts to PoO and Platform proposals. Pat has taken the full state delegate list and the NC C4L membership list and culled out a list of just C4L delegates, which we can use to make sure all of the Pauler delegates know our plan going into the first business session. We can also discuss which non-Pauler Tea Party groups to bring in on that, if any.

[PBrady]

At our RP event in Raleigh, Robin was VERY happy with the way the event turned out, and gave me his card and personal number in case we needed help with anything in the future. I don't how how common this is among other RPers in NC, but clearly if we put out a product of value, he's willing to work with us.

[aclove]

I didn't get a chance to talk to Hayes at the Raleigh event, but I'd harangued his PR flack, Mark Braden, about coming, and was glad to see that he did. He's held meetings across the state with Tea Party groups to present himself as "Tea Party before it was cool" and even offered to be the NC Tea Party spokesman to the establishment (whoever that's supposed to be). THAT got him some pushback from Tea Party leaders, who told him they didn't need representation from outside of their groups.

My take is that Hayes is angling for a Senate run against Kay Hagen in a few years, and as such, is going to be trying to stay on the good side of as many factions as he can. His predecessor wasn't interested in that; he always had his eye on a lucrative lobbying career following his stint as NCGOP Chairman, and so had no compunctions about giving the finger to the grassroots whenever he felt like it.

If I'm right and Hayes has aspirations to higher office, this could play to our advantage, as it means he's subject to the Real Nature of Politics, which is that politicians see the light when they feel the heat. If we're organized enough, we can make it more costly for Hayes to oppose us than not, and thus continue to grow our influence within the NCGOP.

[MozoVote]

For anyone curious how the NC state convention is going, today was a disorganized mess. There was conflicting information on the state GOP website versus the convention pamphlets for the registration deadline.

Due to the opinion of the party legal counsel, the registration deadline was extended yet again, so that about 100 more delegates could get credentialed. Because of that - we did not get a credentials report until over two hours after the start of business. Even the presiding officer could not resist taking a "moment of personal priviledge" and chided the convention planners for not allowing enough time between the registration cutoff and the credentialing.

The only thing accomplished (and I am serious) was voting to change the delegate cutoff date for future convention attendence to a different date in January. We did not vote on the party platform or any of the resolutions. So, all of that business will have to wait until after the chairman and vice chairman elections on Saturday.

[GunnyFreedom]

We just passed the budget out to the Governor's desk, and I just now got home. I plan on leaving at crack o dawn early. What time do I have to be there?

[MozoVote]

Tim Johnson lost the VP seat by a scant margin. The cause could have been be any number of things, when it was this close... a flubbed endorsement that Tim's campaign had recently claimed, backfired on him. His opponent (Wayne King) was well liked in the 9th and 10th districts. And the party chairs generally were supporting his opponent. Because the voting is "full county strength" there is a slight advantage towards the party apparatus as small counties keep voting 1 to zero with the lone vote of the standing delegate (the chairman.)

Tim carried GOP-heavyweight Wake county (where the state capital is) by a wide margin. I suspect the GOP cognoscenti really wanted an African American to remain prominent in the party. In fact, Tim won the count of live bodies present at the convention handily. It was the weighted strength of the counties, that stopped him short.

[GunnyFreedom]

Johnson won the popular vote, but lost the weighted vote. Establishment gravitas weighed out the results to deliver King the victory. Makes me want to lecture the NC GOP from a more prestigious position than the State House, frankly. :mad: They complain of establishment corruption from sunrise to sunset, but keep electing the same hand-picked guys. They used a sick and slanderous smear campaign against Johnson.

This time tho, Johnson won the popular vote, but lost the weighted vote. No greater institutional exertion of establishmentarian power can be held up for example. OK Robin Hayes, are you paying attention? That was the very kind of slimy filth that the voters at large elected us to eradicate. It's perpetuation will lead to the extinction of the Republican Party. This is no longer the 1900's.

This filth is unacceptable in any context. If you accept it, then you will own it. You can either save the NC GOP or become a part of it's epitaph.

[MozoVote]

Well - I have an open mind about the weighted voting. If we did not weight the counties, then the party apparatus could be tempted to hold the convention close to the home county of the favored candidate. North Carolina is a large state and there are historical tensions between the coast and the mountains.

Maybe Tim will run for a public elected office in Buncombe county now, anyway.

Fetzer's stepping aside so they could slip Hayes in and coronate him easily, bothers me more. There were rumors of a challenger emerging from the floor, but nobody really wanted to try. (That Marcus Kindley nomination and withdrawal, was nothing more than theatrics. I think Marcus just wants to keep his name warm as a contender someday.)

[GunnyFreedom]

Well - I have an open mind about the weighted voting. If we did not weight the counties, then the party apparatus could be tempted to hold the convention close to the home county of the favored candidate.

Maybe Tim will run for a public elected office in Buncombe county now, anyway.

Fetzer's stepping aside so they could slip Hayes in and coronate him easily, bothers me more. There were rumors of a challenger emeging from the floor, but nobody really wanted to try. (That Marcus Kindley nomination and withdrawal, was nothing more than theatrics. I think Marcus just wants to keep his name warm as a contender someday.)

Marcus would be a frell of a lot better than the beanbags we've been getting, still not quite as good as we need, but his existing base is just a thread. What if in 2 years we just went and gave 'the other guy' a shot, and focused more on elective office for now, giving us even more weight in the party in 4?

[Oldsouljer]

Well - I have an open mind about the weighted voting. If we did not weight the counties, then the party apparatus could be tempted to hold the convention close to the home county of the favored candidate. North Carolina is a large state and there are historical tensions between the coast and the mountains.

Maybe Tim will run for a public elected office in Buncombe county now, anyway.

Fetzer's stepping aside so they could slip Hayes in and coronate him easily, bothers me more. There were rumors of a challenger emerging from the floor, but nobody really wanted to try. (That Marcus Kindley nomination and withdrawal, was nothing more than theatrics. I think Marcus just wants to keep his name warm as a contender someday.)

I agree with your sentiment concerning the weighted vote because it allows me the full heft allotted to my county if I can't field a full slate of delegates or even a significant majority of the number allotted to my county. And I concur that the weighted vote actually prevents certain types of shenanigans from occurring. I have to say one thing about Tim Johnson, though. I thought he was good for the party, warts and all (and questionable judgment is one of those warts), but whether he deserves credit for the greatest GOP victory in our lifetime or not, the fact remains that IT HAPPENED ON HIS WATCH. You don't just kick someone to the curb after that without damn good reason, and I don't think there was reason enough for that. It just looks bad. Having said that, he did not mix and mingle with the assembly the way King did and that may have cost him. Maybe he assumed he would coast, a costly assumption, if so.