need abortion talking points for a liberal

[Thrashertm]

I have a liberal friend that I'm trying to persuade to vote for Ron Paul. As is often the case, they are concerned with the issue of abortion. Can I get some help with talking points that present RP's position in a manner that will be the most attractive to progressives?

I am looking for something well written that conveys the following, and more:

While personally pro-life, Ron Paul would not push for a federal ban on abortions. He believes that this is not a federal issue. The status quot would continue.
As president, Ron Paul could not unilaterally affect abortion policy. He would need the cooperation of Congress (the American people - which are 50% in favor of abortion approximately) and the Supreme Court
While I may not personally agree with Ron Paul's pro-life view (I am strongly pro-choice), I recognize his view are consistent with his principles and Constitutional perspective, and feel confident that he would govern in-line with his 30 year legislative voting record of NOT imposing his personal moral views on others.
His view of life beginning at conception is likely influenced by his career as an OBGYN - delivering over 4000 babies. While I disagree with this, I can understand where he is coming from.


Thanks for your insight.

[zert]

The first chapter in Liberty Defined is well written, and gets to the point.

[Thrashertm]

The first chapter in Liberty Defined is well written, and gets to the point.

Thanks, but I need pithy talking points, not a whole chapter of a book. I need something to send online.

[Krugerrand]

I have a liberal friend that I'm trying to persuade to vote for Ron Paul. As is often the case, they are concerned with the issue of abortion. Can I get some help with talking points that present RP's position in a manner that will be the most attractive to progressives?

I am looking for something well written that conveys the following, and more:

While personally pro-life, Ron Paul would not push for a federal ban on abortions. He believes that this is not a federal issue. The status quot would continue.
As president, Ron Paul could not unilaterally affect abortion policy. He would need the cooperation of Congress (the American people - which are 50% in favor of abortion approximately) and the Supreme Court
While I may not personally agree with Ron Paul's pro-life view (I am strongly pro-choice), I recognize his view are consistent with his principles and Constitutional perspective, and feel confident that he would govern in-line with his 30 year legislative voting record of NOT imposing his personal moral views on others.
His view of life beginning at conception is likely influenced by his career as an OBGYN - delivering over 4000 babies. While I disagree with this, I can understand where he is coming from.


Thanks for your insight.

I think your last point is big.
It may help more as an advertisement than as talking points ... but I think the OBGYN experience should have a positive impact. I see a 30 second TV spot of women who say "I trusted Ron Paul as my doctor and I trust Ron Paul as my president."

From a talking point perspective, you could ask a pro-choicer to at least empathize with a doctor who brings up that he could face lawsuits for damages based on actions prior to birth. If you frame his opposition to abortion in context to his trusted relationship with women who were pregnant - I would hope - that would at least soften animosity towards his beliefs.

Then bring up that nothing ever really changes. George W was pro-life. He had a GOP congress ... and there were really no substantive changes in abortion. Point out the issue is a distraction and that other issues where changes can and will be made should impact their voting decision.

[AlexMerced]

send them any of these fine videos

Evictionism, Abortion, and Privatizing Foster Care

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvq81WRxJZY

Abortion: How Choicers and Lifers can work together outside of government

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEnBcKQbse4

Why Pro-Choice and Pro-Life Activist should be Concerned about Obamacare

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDmr0Gra5Nc

Privatizing Foster Care

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTCVtByV5eU

[AlexMerced]

I have a liberal friend that I'm trying to persuade to vote for Ron Paul. As is often the case, they are concerned with the issue of abortion. Can I get some help with talking points that present RP's position in a manner that will be the most attractive to progressives?

I am looking for something well written that conveys the following, and more:

While personally pro-life, Ron Paul would not push for a federal ban on abortions. He believes that this is not a federal issue. The status quot would continue.
As president, Ron Paul could not unilaterally affect abortion policy. He would need the cooperation of Congress (the American people - which are 50% in favor of abortion approximately) and the Supreme Court
While I may not personally agree with Ron Paul's pro-life view (I am strongly pro-choice), I recognize his view are consistent with his principles and Constitutional perspective, and feel confident that he would govern in-line with his 30 year legislative voting record of NOT imposing his personal moral views on others.
His view of life beginning at conception is likely influenced by his career as an OBGYN - delivering over 4000 babies. While I disagree with this, I can understand where he is coming from.


Thanks for your insight.

This video is more specific to Ron Pauls views on the issues...

Understanding Ron Paul: The Issues

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zToFKj67xs

[Thrashertm]

This video is more specific to Ron Pauls views on the issues...

Understanding Ron Paul: The Issues

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zToFKj67xs


A 15 minute video? You guys crack me up. I just want 3-4 bullet points that I can use to persuade a liberal not to write off Ron Paul. Sheesh.

[erowe1]

Are you trying to convince this person to vote for Ron Paul in the Republican primary?

If so, do they actually seem likely to vote in the Republican primary at all? If they aren't then it's a moot issue. If they are, then who else would they vote for and why?

[Thrashertm]

Are you trying to convince this person to vote for Ron Paul in the Republican primary?

If so, do they actually seem likely to vote in the Republican primary at all? If they aren't then it's a moot issue. If they are, then who else would they vote for and why?

This person is a lifelong Democrat. The major goal here is to develop some pithy abortion talking points which can be applied to any liberal that raises the topic.

[AlexMerced]

I would say this "Ron Paul doesn't want a blanket federal solution, cause constitutionally and practically it's better left to local solutions that can factor in local values, preferences, and considerations. Ron Paul wants diverse solutions to complex problems, cause simple solutions to complex problems generally create more complex problems."

[itsnobody]

What's the big deal with getting liberals at this moment? We first have to win the GOP Nomination

[Krugerrand]

Okay ... as I think more about this, I'm refining my talking points ...

Ask the person why they believe abortion should be legal. I suspect you'll get the person to say something about a woman should be able to do what she wants with her body. Get the person to confirm that they truly and honestly believe that premise.

Then turn it around with ...

Ron Paul will do more for letting women do what they want with their bodies than any other candidate. Okay, his abortion views have been shaped by him delivering over 4,000 babies and knowing that he faced legal ramifications based on his actions before birth. But consider that 1) George W was staunchly anti-abortion had a GOP congress and there were no substantial changes in abortion laws. 2) Ron Paul is focused on not having the issue decided at a federal level. The issue is mostly a distraction because little change can be expected.

Now, look at other areas where the government does not allow women to choose what to do with their bodies. (somebody feel free to insert statistics.)
How many women with cancer cannot use experimental treatments because the FDA denies them the option.
How many women use medical marijuana to alleviate chronic pain - while the Federal Government threatens them with penalties.
How many women drink raw milk while Federal Agents try and block their options.

Even those who disagree with Ron Paul on abortion should appreciate from where he's coming. And, if their goal is truly to vote for the candidate who will let women do what they want with their own bodies ... then vote for the candidate who will have the biggest impact letting women do just that - Ron Paul.

[Krugerrand]

What's the big deal with getting liberals at this moment? We first have to win the GOP Nomination

Yes and no. One of Ron Paul's best points in the GOP primary is that he polls well against Obama. So, the more people on the other side that give Ron Paul a chance (most likely the anti-war crowd) the stronger RP polls against Obama and then the more consideration he can get in the GOP primary as a result.

[erowe1]

This person is a lifelong Democrat. The major goal here is to develop some pithy abortion talking points which can be applied to any liberal that raises the topic.

But my two questions would still apply to any liberal who raises the topic.

Are they going to vote in the Republican primary? If not, it doesn't matter. If so, then who else would they vote for and why?

[Thrashertm]

Okay ... as I think more about this, I'm refining my talking points ...

Ask the person why they believe abortion should be legal. I suspect you'll get the person to say something about a woman should be able to do what she wants with her body. Get the person to confirm that they truly and honestly believe that premise.

Then turn it around with ...

Ron Paul will do more for letting women do what they want with their bodies than any other candidate. Okay, his abortion views have been shaped by him delivering over 4,000 babies and knowing that he faced legal ramifications based on his actions before birth. But consider that 1) George W was staunchly anti-abortion had a GOP congress and there were no substantial changes in abortion laws. 2) Ron Paul is focused on not having the issue decided at a federal level. The issue is mostly a distraction because little change can be expected.

Now, look at other areas where the government does not allow women to choose what to do with their bodies. (somebody feel free to insert statistics.)
How many women with cancer cannot use experimental treatments because the FDA denies them the option.
How many women use medical marijuana to alleviate chronic pain - while the Federal Government threatens them with penalties.
How many women drink whole milk while Federal Agents try and block their options.

Even those who disagree with Ron Paul on abortion should appreciate from where he's coming. And, if their goal is truly to vote for the candidate who will let women do what they want with their own bodies ... then vote for the candidate who will have the biggest impact letting women do just that - Ron Paul.

I really like this answer and this it will resonate. I have used a similar argument with other liberals and it leaves them scratching their heads. Namely - by what principle should abortions be legal? The answer that came back was "a women should be able to choose". Well why should they only be able to choose for abortions? According to my principles - we own our own bodies, and the government doesn't have the right to force us to restrict us from anything so long as we don't harm others - be it abortion, drugs, food whatever.

[kazmlsj]

FROM: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/04/ron-paul-anti-abortion.html
[Recent article]

"Life comes from our Creator, not our government."
"Liberty comes from our Creator, not from government. Therefore, the purpose, if there is to be a purpose, for government is to protect life and liberty."

"As much as I talk about economic liberties, and civil liberties and trying to avoid the killing overseas, I think the issue of life is paramount."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

FROM: http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Ron_Paul_Abortion.htm
[2008 Campaign - go to links for explanation of each bullet]

*Abortion is murder
*Roe v. Wade decision was harmful to the Constitution
*Define life at conception in law, as scientific statement
*Protecting the life of the unborn is protecting liberty
*Get the federal government out of abortion decision
*Delivered 4000 babies; & assuredly life begins at conception
*Sanctity of Life Act: remove federal jurisdiction
*Nominate only judges who refuse to legislate from the bench

[muzzled dogg]

ron recognizes that as president he would have no jurisdication over what a woman decides to do with her body

[specsaregood]

Thanks, but I need pithy talking points, not a whole chapter of a book. I need something to send online.

FWIW: I seem to recall that particular chapter has been made available in its entirety for free online.

[Krugerrand]

FROM: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/04/ron-paul-anti-abortion.html
[Recent article]

"Life comes from our Creator, not our government."
"Liberty comes from our Creator, not from government. Therefore, the purpose, if there is to be a purpose, for government is to protect life and liberty."

"As much as I talk about economic liberties, and civil liberties and trying to avoid the killing overseas, I think the issue of life is paramount."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

FROM: http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Ron_Paul_Abortion.htm
[2008 Campaign - go to links for explanation of each bullet]

*Abortion is murder
*Roe v. Wade decision was harmful to the Constitution
*Define life at conception in law, as scientific statement
*Protecting the life of the unborn is protecting liberty
*Get the federal government out of abortion decision
*Delivered 4000 babies; & assuredly life begins at conception
*Sanctity of Life Act: remove federal jurisdiction
*Nominate only judges who refuse to legislate from the bench

I don't disagree ... but I don't think that's going to bring a pro-choicer over to the RP camp.

[Cleaner44]

I have a liberal friend that I'm trying to persuade to vote for Ron Paul. As is often the case, they are concerned with the issue of abortion. Can I get some help with talking points that present RP's position in a manner that will be the most attractive to progressives?

I am looking for something well written that conveys the following, and more:

While personally pro-life, Ron Paul would not push for a federal ban on abortions. He believes that this is not a federal issue. The status quot would continue.
As president, Ron Paul could not unilaterally affect abortion policy. He would need the cooperation of Congress (the American people - which are 50% in favor of abortion approximately) and the Supreme Court
While I may not personally agree with Ron Paul's pro-life view (I am strongly pro-choice), I recognize his view are consistent with his principles and Constitutional perspective, and feel confident that he would govern in-line with his 30 year legislative voting record of NOT imposing his personal moral views on others.
His view of life beginning at conception is likely influenced by his career as an OBGYN - delivering over 4000 babies. While I disagree with this, I can understand where he is coming from.


Thanks for your insight.

Keep it simple. You already have the answer. It is not a Federal issue and Ron Paul has no interest in making it one. Roe v Wade is where we are and Ron Paul can not and will not change that.

[specsaregood]

FWIW: I seem to recall that particular chapter has been made available in its entirety for free online.

Yes, here it is:
http://inthearena.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/26/rep-ron-paul-announces-his-presidential-exploratory-committee-writes-about-abortion/

Also his earlier book (1983) "Abortion and Liberty" is also available for free
here: http://files.meetup.com/504095/Ron%20Paul-Abortion%20and%20Liberty.pdf

[dannno]

Ron Paul has a lot of pro-choice supporters, including myself. I have spoken with countless pro-choice people and successfully convinced the vast majority of them that Ron Paul's view on abortion is not something that should dissuade them from supporting him.

One thing I always say is that there are a lot of people who really, truly, honestly believe that abortion is killing a child and these people are simply trying to protect the child's right to live over the mother's right to "choose". The problem is that a lot of pro-choice people view pro-life people as just wanting to try to prevent young people from having sex when they aren't ready to have a kid. In this way pro-choice people see the abortion issue as a way for the "Moral Majority" to impose their values on everyone else. This is true in many cases, but there are also a lot of people who don't care about others' personal choices but they do want to prevent the death of living fetuses. It is a valid position to hold, although I personally disagree that the government should be involved in a mother's womb and what she decides to do with it, at least for the most part (especially in the first and early second trimester). HOWEVER, most pro-choice people would like to see laws against third term and/or partial birth abortions. So not everyone who is pro-choice thinks that a mother has every right to her own womb and believe that at some point the child does in fact have rights. Something to consider.

[dannno]

What's the big deal with getting liberals at this moment? We first have to win the GOP Nomination

I switched from the Green Party 4 years ago to vote for Ron Paul in the primaries, I know a lot of others who held their nose shut and did that as well.

[Kludge]

http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/031406/gay-atheist-liberals.gif

[Thrashertm]

Keep it simple. You already have the answer. It is not a Federal issue and Ron Paul has no interest in making it one. Roe v Wade is where we are and Ron Paul can not and will not change that.

I think I covered some of the salient points, but it's not particularly well-written. Could be a lot better organized.

[Cleaner44]

I have a liberal friend that I'm trying to persuade to vote for Ron Paul. As is often the case, they are concerned with the issue of abortion. Can I get some help with talking points that present RP's position in a manner that will be the most attractive to progressives?

I am looking for something well written that conveys the following, and more:

While personally pro-life, Ron Paul would not push for a federal ban on abortions. He believes that this is not a federal issue. The status quot would continue.
As president, Ron Paul could not unilaterally affect abortion policy. He would need the cooperation of Congress (the American people - which are 50% in favor of abortion approximately) and the Supreme Court
While I may not personally agree with Ron Paul's pro-life view (I am strongly pro-choice), I recognize his view are consistent with his principles and Constitutional perspective, and feel confident that he would govern in-line with his 30 year legislative voting record of NOT imposing his personal moral views on others.
His view of life beginning at conception is likely influenced by his career as an OBGYN - delivering over 4000 babies. While I disagree with this, I can understand where he is coming from.


Thanks for your insight.


I think I covered some of the salient points, but it's not particularly well-written. Could be a lot better organized.

I think your first post is very good.


Ron Paul does not believe the Federal government has the authortiy to ban abortions.
The President does not create abortion law, the Congress does.
The Republican party did not change abortion law when they had the White House, Senate and House from 2000-2006 and Ron Paul as President would not change abortion law either.
Ron Paul has the most consistant record of standing by his principles of all people in Washington D.C. and his first priority in governing is the U.S. Constitution, not his personal views.
Ron Paul is called Dr. No because he consistantly votes against bills that are Unconstitutional over-reaches of the Federal government.