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low preference guy
05-17-2011, 04:53 PM
I don't know if this is a good or bad idea. Why do you think the doctor thinks it is a good idea?



NEW YORK — The next big question on the federal debt limit could be whether to start selling the government’s holdings of gold at Fort Knox — and at least one presidential contender, Ron Paul, has told The New York Sun he thinks it would be a good move.


Read the rest. (http://www.nysun.com/national/selling-gold-at-fort-knox-emerges-as-next-big/87350/)

Acala
05-17-2011, 04:55 PM
Maybe because it would get the real money out of the hands of the Fed and into the hands of the people ready to circulate when the dollar collapses.

Chester Copperpot
05-17-2011, 04:55 PM
Its only a good idea if the govt is interested in paying off the debt and strenghtening the dollar

TheNcredibleEgg
05-17-2011, 04:57 PM
Ugh - I sure hope he was taken out of context, because I think it's a horrible idea.

Perhaps Ron Paul meant it's a good idea to sell if - 1) the country refuses to consider a gold standard ever or 2) if the country refuses to balance its book then like any bankrupt entity - you have to sell off your possessions.

John of Des Moines
05-17-2011, 04:58 PM
Maybe a good idea. What's the going price for gold-plated tungsten?

Teaser Rate
05-17-2011, 04:59 PM
I think it would send the wrong message to US creditors.

Dr.3D
05-17-2011, 05:01 PM
They can't sell what they don't have. What proof do we have there is any gold in Fort Knox? Ron has asked for an audit or to at least see the gold, but they will not comply.

Agorism
05-17-2011, 05:03 PM
I strongly favor this plan along with liquidating all other assets: parks, farm land, all military assets, etc.

We need to liquidate the "assets" of the federal government. Republican congressman Dennis Ross offered a similar plan

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/17/dennis-ross-utah/


Dennis Ross, a House Republican and a member of the Tea Party caucus, told Reuters: “I don’t think Treasury has been up front with us. I am not convinced the sky will fall in on August 3.”

Ross added: “I’m not an economist, but I have maintained a household. The federal government owns 70 per cent of Utah, for example. There are federal buildings. If you need cash, let’s start liquidating.”


Would it solve the problem? No, but it would work for a short period of time before more liquidation is needed, and it's better than raising the ceiling. Come on those aircrafter carriers, bases, and those stealth helicopters that JSOC assassination squads fly around in have to be worth something.

Sell them.

Lucille
05-17-2011, 05:05 PM
It's probably his way of getting an audit!


In August 2010, a leading figure in the monetary debate in Congress, Ron Paul, a Republican of Texas, called for an audit of the federal government’s gold reserves. “If there was no question, you’d think they would be very anxious to prove to us that the gold is there. . . . ,” Dr. Paul then said, “In the early 1980s when I was on the gold commission, I asked them to recommend to the Congress that they audit the gold reserves – we had 17 members of the commission and 15 voted not to the audit. I think there was only one decent audit done 50 years ago.”

“If we ever get around to deciding we should use gold in relationship to our currency we ought to know how much is there,” Dr. Paul added, “Our Federal Reserve admits to nothing and they should prove all the gold is there. There is a reason to be suspicious and even if you are not suspicious why wouldn’t you have an audit?” In March 2008 the Times of London quoted a spokesman of the American treasury as saying that American gold holdings “are audited every year by the Department of Treasury's Office of Inspector General. He confirmed that although independent auditors oversee the process they are not given access to the Fort Knox vault.”

Dr. Paul told the Sun today that he reckoned the sale of gold reserves would be “a good and moral decision. An individual would have to do the same.” The sentiment is echoed by another big name in the debate on monetary reform, Edwin Vieira Jr., who told the Sun he has little hope of the government moving to sound money and would prefer that it coin its gold holdings in pieces marked with their weight and use them to pay off debts, particularly individuals — who might be owed, say, tax refunds.

Rep. Paul Calls for Gold Audit, Questions Whether Fort Knox Is Empty

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/31/rep-paul-calls-fort-knox-audit-suggests-gold-gone/#ixzz1MeaRp0xc


"It'd be nice for the American people to know whether or not the gold is there," Paul told Fox Business Network. And if it is all there, he said, the public should know whether any of it has been obligated.

sailingaway
05-17-2011, 05:07 PM
To be honest, I don't know that I like this plan, but I suspect it means he doesn't think there really is any there -- or that if it physically is there, title belongs elsewhere.

He's been trying to audit it, if you recall.

Gumba of Liberty
05-17-2011, 05:07 PM
Ugh - I sure hope he was taken out of context, because I think it's a horrible idea.

Perhaps Ron Paul meant it's a good idea to sell if - 1) the country refuses to consider a gold standard ever or 2) if the country refuses to balance its book then like any bankrupt entity - you have to sell off your possessions.

Your are right, it is a terrible idea if the U.S. government still owns the gold. But what if the gold isn't there? Dr. Paul obviously believes that that gold in Fort Knox is gone or it has been sold to the Federal Reserve and the globalists and continues to sit in Fort Knox for theatrical purposes. If the government was going to sell the gold they would have to A. show the gold (or the lack of gold) to the American people and B. Sell the gold in the name of the American public which prevents the bankers from selling it in the shadows. Great politics by the good Dr. :D

Agorism
05-17-2011, 05:08 PM
It's a terrible idea for the government to own ANYTHING. Sell it all to the private market especially when it's in danger of default.

Razmear
05-17-2011, 05:09 PM
Dr. Paul told the Sun today that he reckoned the sale of gold reserves would be “a good and moral decision. An individual would have to do the same.” The sentiment is echoed by another big name in the debate on monetary reform, Edwin Vieira Jr., who told the Sun he has little hope of the government moving to sound money and would prefer that it coin its gold holdings in pieces marked with their weight and use them to pay off debts, particularly individuals — who might be owed, say, tax refunds.
I wouldn't mind getting my tax refund in gold.
Selling it to pay off the debt would be a bad idea tho, it wouldn't even coming close to making a down payment on our national debt.

Agorism
05-17-2011, 05:11 PM
I'm sure the FDR memorial in D.C. is worth a few bucks. Could sell that thing to a liberal who really likes it a conservative who really want to get rid of it.

sailingaway
05-17-2011, 05:16 PM
I'm sure the FDR memorial in D.C. is worth a few bucks. Could sell that thing to a liberal who really likes it a conservative who really want to get rid of it.

I'm fine selling the FDR memorial. But if we want our dollar worth anything, I'm not so keen on selling gold.

Razmear
05-17-2011, 05:18 PM
Lets see, scrap steel is selling for about $10 per 100#.
We've got 11 aircraft carriers at 100,000 tonnes each. Thats 200 million pounds a piece, times 11 is 2.2 billion pounds of scrap steel ready for the crusher :D

Agorism
05-17-2011, 05:19 PM
I'm fine selling the FDR memorial. But if we want our dollar worth anything, I'm not so keen on selling gold.

Trying to prop the beast up here?

Michigan11
05-17-2011, 05:21 PM
He's calling their bluff

sailingaway
05-17-2011, 05:24 PM
Trying to prop the beast up here?

I like gold. It's shiny.

Dorfsmith
05-17-2011, 05:26 PM
He's calling their bluff

Exactly. It's brilliant!

svobody
05-17-2011, 05:29 PM
It only makes sense. If our currency isn't backed by gold, and the gov't has no desire to return to the gold standard, why are they sitting on billions of dollars of PM? What purpose does it serve? None whatsoever. Liquidate it if they're so confident in the dollar. Or, put their gold where their mouth is. Basic "Calling their bluff" 101.

matt0611
05-17-2011, 06:22 PM
That gold is the american peoples gold, it was stolen from us.

There is ~ 150 million ounces of gold in Ft Knox.
They should give each american a half oz of gold or sell it and send us all a check.
Just IMO.

sailingaway
05-17-2011, 06:33 PM
That gold is the american peoples gold, it was stolen from us.

There is ~ 150 million ounces of gold in Ft Knox.
They should give each american a half oz of gold or sell it and send us all a check.
Just IMO.

Well, if I'm getting some of it, I want the gold, not a check.

Just sayin'....

ssantoro
05-17-2011, 07:00 PM
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4485/fortknoxgoldvault.jpg

Elwar
05-17-2011, 07:05 PM
He's calling their bluff

This is what I thought...

he could also ask Romney to pay for the national debt with the money from all of his grassroots supporters...

Lucille
05-17-2011, 07:08 PM
http://www.lewrockwell.com/politicaltheatre/2011/05/ron-paul-sell-the-governments-gold/

Chester Copperpot
05-17-2011, 07:11 PM
They can't sell what they don't have. What proof do we have there is any gold in Fort Knox? Ron has asked for an audit or to at least see the gold, but they will not comply.

That might be the reason he thinks its a good idea.. if they have to sell it, they have to count it first.

axiomata
05-17-2011, 07:23 PM
Better to have the gov left with worthless paper than the people. This is a required step for a transition to free banking competing currencies.

ctiger2
05-17-2011, 08:31 PM
Man, when I saw this headline at Drudge I was like WTF! But, after thinking about it a bit, it's like reverse confiscation. Brilliant! As long as the American people can exchange Federal Reserve Notes for it that is...

dbill27
05-17-2011, 08:33 PM
He's calling their bluff


This. He knows it's long gone.

RonPaulGetsIt
05-17-2011, 08:37 PM
Ron Paul is really impressive this go round.....more then ever. Reverse confiscation or bluff to make em audit the gold. Whatever he thinks they should do is the right thing to do.

QueenB4Liberty
05-17-2011, 08:40 PM
Man, when I saw this headline at Drudge I was like WTF! But, after thinking about it a bit, it's like reverse confiscation. Brilliant! As long as the American people can exchange Federal Reserve Notes for it that is...

That's right!

cindy25
05-17-2011, 08:40 PM
he doesn't think its there, trying to force their hand

CUnknown
05-17-2011, 08:40 PM
Of course we should audit it, and if he suspects it's not still there (or not owned by the US anymore), then coming out for selling it makes sense.

But -- I am strongly against selling the gold, or any assets. At least not without a balanced budget amendment. Why should we sell off the nation's assets in order to finance a drunken spending binge?? That's the equivalent of selling family heirlooms for a night of hookers and blow.

ghengis86
05-17-2011, 08:41 PM
Lets see, scrap steel is selling for about $10 per 100#.
We've got 11 aircraft carriers at 100,000 tonnes each. Thats 200 million pounds a piece, times 11 is 2.2 billion pounds of scrap steel ready for the crusher :D

That's 'only' $220 million. Or 0.015% of our current debt. A good place to start, but we're going to need a few more trillion lbs of scap steel

daviddee
05-17-2011, 08:46 PM
...

daviddee
05-17-2011, 08:50 PM
...

daviddee
05-17-2011, 08:52 PM
...

roho76
05-17-2011, 08:53 PM
Give the FRN's back to the government.

YumYum
05-17-2011, 08:58 PM
This. He knows it's long gone.

When JFK initiated deficit spending, he created inflation. FRN's were pegged to gold at $35 an ounce (or was it $40?), and the central bankers around the world were buying FRNs and then demanding gold from the U.S. for the dollars they possessed. They got paid in exchange for the FRNs with gold, at $35 ounce, and then turned around and sold the gold at $80 an ounce on the world market; doubling their money. They did this till there was no gold left; that is why Nixon cut us off of what remained of the gold standard.

ghengis86
05-17-2011, 09:07 PM
That gold is the american peoples gold, it was stolen from us.

There is ~ 150 million ounces of gold in Ft Knox.
They should give each american a half oz of gold or sell it and send us all a check.
Just IMO.

There are ~8,133.5 metric tons (tonnes) of gold reportedly held at Fort Knox (just play along). At $1490 per Troy ounce, selling all that gold would net uncle Sam a whopping $389 billion FRNs or enough to fund the government for another 3 months, give or take. That's only 2.72% of our current debt. We would need 35 more identical facilities in addition to fort knox to pay off our debt. But since tax receipts fund only half of the governments expenses, we'd need to sell a fort Knox worth of gold twice a year to avoid going back into debt.

Billion and trillion are such huge numbers, it's hard to wrap your head around them. It also makes it difficult for anyone to sincerely believe that we will ever pay off our debt, without going Gideo Gono

Teaser Rate
05-17-2011, 09:18 PM
There are ~8,133.5 metric tons (tonnes) of gold reportedly held at Fort Knox (just play along). At $1490 per Troy ounce, selling all that gold would net uncle Sam a whopping $389 billion FRNs or enough to fund the government for another 3 months, give or take. That's only 2.72% of our current debt. We would need 35 more identical facilities in addition to fort knox to pay off our debt. But since tax receipts fund only half of the governments expenses, we'd need to sell a fort Knox worth of gold twice a year to avoid going back into debt.

Billion and trillion are such huge numbers, it's hard to wrap your head around them. It also makes it difficult for anyone to sincerely believe that we will ever pay off our debt, without going Gideo Gono

There's really no reason to ever pay off our debt, the only challenge is keeping it at a reasonable level so that the interest payments remain manageable.

Napoleon's Shadow
05-17-2011, 09:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gDXPuup3tY&feature=player_embedded

sailingaway
05-17-2011, 09:29 PM
I'm assuming Ron is doing it to call for an accounting/audit which he has been asking for for years. He is steadily buying gold, typically, I doubt he'd really want the country to sell it.

propanes
05-17-2011, 09:37 PM
There's really no reason to ever pay off our debt, the only challenge is keeping it at a reasonable level so that the interest payments remain manageable.

Yes, especially if part of the national debt was the result of fraud.

Teaser Rate
05-17-2011, 09:45 PM
Yes, especially if part of the national debt was the result of fraud.

What fraud are you talking about?

daviddee
05-17-2011, 09:45 PM
...

sailingaway
05-17-2011, 09:54 PM
Ron has been in metals his entire life... He knows when to sell at peaks. Gold is an investment... you should not fall in love with it.

I had this discussion when silver was at $50 and all of the people who were/are "in love" came out in force to preach the gospel... It crashed a couple days later. Every bubble has a good story to justify it... Every bubble crashes.

Gold at $1500 is a sell.

For an individual yes, and that might be part of why he mentioned it, but I still think he is just generally saying when you are in debt you sell stuff to get out, and think he wants to find out what is really there. He is taking heat for this tonight on gold pages, and I think he will explain it and we will all say 'Ohh.... ok.' when we find out his reasoning.

daviddee
05-17-2011, 10:12 PM
...

sailingaway
05-17-2011, 10:30 PM
I"m sending Mish's report to drudge it sounds a lot more realistic

low preference guy
05-17-2011, 10:31 PM
I"m sending Mish's report to drudge it sounds a lot more realistic

i'm not so sure. not many others use "moral" to describe a method of payment, but Ron would.

sailingaway
05-17-2011, 10:40 PM
i'm not so sure. not many others use "moral" to describe a method of payment, but Ron would.

Well, you could be right too, but I doubt Ron meant to race out and do it. Whatever, I sent it to drudge, he will 'investigate and decide' or whatever.

low preference guy
05-17-2011, 10:41 PM
Well, you could be right too, but I doubt Ron meant to race out and do it. Whatever, I sent it to drudge, he will 'investigate and decide' or whatever.

yeah, i'm not sure, because it surprised me as well. i wasn't objecting sending it to drudge.

LibertyEagle
05-17-2011, 10:46 PM
They can't sell what they don't have. What proof do we have there is any gold in Fort Knox? Ron has asked for an audit or to at least see the gold, but they will not comply.

Yup. It's one way to get an audit. LOL

libertybrewcity
05-18-2011, 12:29 AM
I think Ron is digging a hole for himself. He can explain these issues to people, but news stations are just going to attack him and skew his words. Ron should make big appearances but keep it limited like Rand did.

martyr_rabbit
05-18-2011, 07:07 AM
Looks like it's off the Drudge homepage now.

Carehn
05-18-2011, 07:46 AM
Im for it. I want to see america do good but not the government. If it was up to me they would have no assets at all. Just an army of old librarian type bureaucrats in a run down shed somewhere in navada.

wizardwatson
05-18-2011, 08:37 AM
Mish is calling bullshit...

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/05/ron-paul-says-sell-gold-no-chance.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MishsGlobalEconomicTrendAnaly sis+%28Mish%27s+Global+Economic+Trend+Analysis%29
(http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/05/ron-paul-says-sell-gold-no-chance.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MishsGlobalEconomicTrendAnaly sis+%28Mish%27s+Global+Economic+Trend+Analysis%29)

Mish might be right and this is all mis-quoting Paul or mis-attributing something someone else said to him. But the damage is already done for the most part. The 'big story' is always featured in the paper while the retractions go to page 6 as they say.

I caught about 10 minutes of Michael Savage yesterday and he was ripping into Ron Paul about this sell all the gold meme. Saying it will make the gold markets go crazy, our dollar won't be backed by anything, etc. Then he started mocking him by saying "why don't we sell Mt. Rushmore, or the statue of liberty" and all this jabber.

Anyway, I guess Savage is an expert on monetary theory when he gets the chance to attack Ron Paul (I think his main beef is foreign policy as Savage in an interventionist like most of these talking heads). He might retract if the story is found to be a lie, but I doubt he'll spend 4 sentences retracting.